Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 27 June 2023
35. Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor asked the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform if he has had any engagement or correspondence with the Minister for Justice or her Department on issues concerning the pensions of post-1995 prison officers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30908/23]
View answerHas the Minister had any engagement or correspondence with the Minister for Justice or her Department on issues concerning the pensions of post-1995 prison officers, and will he make a statement on the matter?
As the Deputy may be aware, I have overall policy responsibility in respect of public service occupational pension schemes payable to retired public servants.
For all new entrants to the public service on or after 6 April 1995 and before 1 January 2013, pension payment comprises three components: a public service occupational pension payable by the public service employer; social insurance benefits payable by the Department of Social Protection; and, where the full rate of the State pension contribution is not payable, a supplementary pension equivalent to a non-integrated pension, which is payable by the public service employer.
Where the public servant does not qualify for the State pension contribution or qualifies for a social insurance benefit at less than the value of the State pension contribution, he or she may be entitled to a supplementary pension, subject to eligibility criteria. Those criteria include whether the retired public servant is in paid employment; whether the retired public servant, due to no fault of his or her own, fails to qualify for social insurance benefits or qualifies for a benefit at less than the value of the State pension contribution; and the retired public servant must have reached the minimum pension age or retired on grounds of ill health. The second condition is important to ensure no duplication of payments from public funds.
My Department is aware that there are some issues concerning the procedures for qualifying for the payment of an occupational supplementary pension and we have liaised with the Department of Justice on these matters. My officials are currently reviewing the processes involved to establish if there is a more efficient and streamlined approach to the procedures because we appreciate the importance of the issues being raised. However, reducing the administrative burden is likely to include a technological solution that will require some time to agree and implement.
The issue of retirement age and supplementary pension for prison officers is very important to me.
As the Minister knows, the pensions of post-1995 prison officers are integrated with the contributory State pension. Pensions of members recruited on or after April 1995 comprise two elements, those being, a partial pension paid by the employer and the contributory State pension. The Prison Officers Association recently raised the matter of the supplementary pension at its annual conference, pointing out that there was a lack of clarity for its members. The Minister is probably aware that the then Minister for Justice, Deputy Harris, wrote to the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform and to the Minister for Social Protection in an effort to find a resolution to the issue. Policy around public sector pay is a matter for the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform and I know that its Minister, Deputy Donohoe, is anxious to see that this issue is sorted. As the situation stands, staff are required upon retirement to attend their local social welfare offices to sign on as being available and looking for work, and in some cases to fulfil the criteria associated with that.
I am aware of some of the issues involved. My Department is engaging with the Department of Justice and other Departments on the matter. We are going to commence a consultative process with stakeholders to see if there is a way in which we can streamline the process involved in accessing the pension and dealing with some related issues. I cannot give the Deputy a commitment or guarantee this evening about whether or how this matter can be resolved, as there are some issues that are important from the point of view of equity and how we treat other citizens, but we are examining the matter. If there is any progress, I will let the Deputy know.
I thank the Minister. I will provide two examples of where I was contacted about people who had to retire on grounds of age. They were both post-1995 recruits but were treated differently. One prison officer from Dublin attended his welfare office and asked for a letter stating that he was not looking or available for work. He received that letter and forwarded it to the National Shared Services Office, NSSO, and his pension was paid in full without it being necessary to sign on and meet the jobseeker’s allowance criteria. A second prison officer in a different county had to sign on and do a course prescribed by social welfare officers, and he could not go on holidays for more than two weeks without losing his payment.
It would make sense for the pension to be administered by the NSSO from day one. There would be no extra cost for the Government and would save the Department of Social Welfare time and effort, which would be important.
Mine is a similar issue. Some of the rules on forced retirements and so forth were introduced to address pensions, particularly in the Defence Forces. These rules are from a different time. The Minister has allowed short-term fixes so that particular ranks can stay on beyond 50 years of age, which is welcome. He mentioned the interdepartmental working group. What is its timeline? Could there be a short-term fix as we await the group’s outworking? I hope it can offer a solution. There is a significant retention issue in the Defence Forces. I imagine all of us have been approached about anomalous abatement situations. That might be a wider conversation, but the issue needs to be addressed.
With respect, the issue Deputy Ó Murchú has raised is completely different from the question I am dealing with at the moment. Deputy Murnane O’Connor is asking me about prison officers whereas Deputy Ó Murchú is asking me about the Defence Forces. I am happy to revert to Deputy Ó Murchú on his issue at some point, but they are different matters.
I would appreciate that.
The question submitted by Deputy Murnane O’Connor refers to an issue that has a particular relevance for a certain group of prison officers and how they are accessing their pensions. We are aware of the issue and we are examining it. If she gives me the specifics of the cases she described, I will feed them into the process. The Minister, Deputy Harris, has also raised the issue with me.
I thank the Minister.
