Skip to main content
Normal View

Defence Forces

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 21 November 2023

Tuesday, 21 November 2023

Questions (35)

Matt Carthy

Question:

35. Deputy Matt Carthy asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence if he will report on action 28 of the Strategic Framework: Transformation of the Defence Forces; if the agreed civil-military management policy position on the implementation of the working time directive within the Defence Forces will be finalised by the end of 2023; the average working hours of members of the Permanent Defence Force, by rank; and if the recording of hours is intended to be permanent or temporary. [51140/23]

View answer

Oral answers (6 contributions)

I am sure the Tánaiste will have had the same conversations with members of the Defence Forces representative organisations and their families in this regard. Reverting to our earlier conversation on the recruitment and retention crisis, every single one of them I have met has pinpointed that action on the working time directive as the single greatest move or action the Government could take to address that crisis. There appears, however, to be a frustratingly slow progression in its implementation. I hope the Tánaiste will enlighten us about some accelerated developments that will occur in the near future.

I thank Deputy Carthy for raising the question. I believe it has actually accelerated. Since coming in as the Minister I identified this as a key priority of mine. The Defence Forces are currently exempted from the provisions of the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997, which transposed the EU working time directive into Irish law. I assure the Deputy, however, that I am fully committed to ensuring that the provisions of the working time directive are applied, where appropriate, to its members in line with the Government’s commitment to remove the blanket exemption in the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 for both the Defence Forces and An Garda Síochána.

Dialogue took place during the year with the Permanent Defence Force representative associations and civilian-military management through the working time directive sub-committee as part of the conciliation and arbitration scheme. These deliberations have been constructive. Significant progress has been made with regard to activities deemed outside the scope of the directive and associated protections. I understand that a further meeting is scheduled for early December.

European case law on military service, of course, has been clear that certain activities due to their specific nature can be considered outside the scope of the directive. The provisions of this ruling have, quite rightly, informed the formulisation of a civil-military policy position, which has as its guiding principle, the fundamental requirement to ensure that appropriate rights and protections with regard to health and safety are afforded to serving members, while also ensuring that the Defence Forces can continue to fulfil their essential State functions.

Action 28 of the strategic framework published on 26 September last provides that the agreed civil-military management policy position on the implementation of the working time directive in the Defence Forces is to be finalised by the end 2023 and submitted to me. I have given clear instructions to my officials and military management that this timeline must be met. Without doubt, the introduction of a robust system to record daily hours of attendance is an essential element for the Defence Forces, in ensuring that the provisions of the working time directive are properly afforded to serving members. The military authorities have convened a working group to examine options for such a system in the long term. In the meantime, I have directed that, as an interim measure, a time and attendance system to specifically record daily hours of attendance be introduced on a pilot basis without delay. The military authorities have informed me that this pilot system will be rolled out in early December in a number of areas.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

As the Deputy will be aware, the responsibility for developing the legislative framework to remove the blanket exemption for the Defence Forces in the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 lies with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Upon finalisation of the policy position, my officials will commence formal engagement with that Department. In the interim, my officials are actively engaging with it on an informal basis.

I am on the record several times as having said that the implementation of the working time directive in the Defence Forces is the single most important thing we can do to address the crisis in recruitment and retention. I hear frustration from members of the Defence Forces all the time about what they consider to be false dawns, slipping deadlines and missed targets. This leads them to question the credibility of the commitment to move forward.

Members of the Defence Forces do a unique job. It will never be a standard nine-to-five job, but it is not acceptable that we are still in a situation where we expect members of the Defence Forces to operate in circumstances in which no other members of the workforce do. It is regrettable that it has taken so long for the recording of hours to happen. This has only come about in recent weeks. I cannot understand why it has taken so long, but I expect it will happen permanently because in the absence of recording hours, it is impossible to quantify how much it will cost. How much money has been allocated for the plan to implement the working time directive next year?

I have met the representative associations about this issue. They know my commitment to it. As part of the conciliation and arbitration scheme, we established a sub-committee and the representative associations have had an input through that committee. As part of that, compensatory rest is now provided for certain duties in line with the provisions of the directive. There is no question, but that I have given this my focus. As a result, the dialogue with representative associations, through the sub-committee on the proposed management system, has gained momentum this year. The finalisation of a policy position, including with regard to activities deemed outside the scope of the directive, is imminent. We are on track. There is no slippage in the timelines that I set.

I am determined to get this done. We are in touch with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, which is responsible for bringing forward the appropriate legislative amendments. We are told by the military leadership that a high percentage of activities are already compliant with the directive. This is not an issue of funding per se. We will deal with that, but the fundamental issue is getting it organised and agreed.

I do not know how the Tánaiste can say that without having the information about the hours currently being worked by the Defence Forces. Its members regularly tell me they work way beyond the hours that would be expected under the directive. I have another concern, which is not an inference from dealing with any person or Department; it is from an experience I had when I was dealing with agricultural issues. Many aspects of agriculture require another Department to bring forward primary or secondary legislation that might not be a priority for that Department and there are inevitable delays in the context of timelines. As a result, it is crucial that there be a whole-of-government approach to ensure that the legislative work which needs to be done in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment is advanced in parallel with all the other work. Is the Tánaiste aware that drafting has commenced and that there will not be any delays on that front, when - we hope it will be soon - we get to the point where we can advance this further?

The responsibility, as the Deputy said, for developing the legislative framework to remove the blanket exemption for the Defence Forces under the Organisation of Working Time Act lies with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. We have to get the policy positions finalised to inform the general scheme and the eventual legislation. Formal engagement will commence once that is completed. In the meantime, however, the Deputy can be assured that my officials are actively engaging with officials from the Department of enterprise on an informal basis to update them on progress. It is clearly the expert Department on the working time directive and drafting the legislation. That is not where the delay is. The delay in the past few years has been in getting agreement, but since I came into office last December, I identified this as a clear priority. I am determined to see it through. We will have a milestone by the end of this year. We are making progress. It is accepted that progress is being made, but it is important to maintain the momentum and to get this done.

Top
Share