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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 18 Oct 2012

Vol. 779 No. 2

Leaders' Questions

Last June, following the statement issued at the end of the European Council meeting, the Taoiseach and Government colleagues trumpeted the outcome as being a game changer for this country. We were led to believe that the decision to allow for the direct recapitalisation of Spanish banks without placing the burden on the shoulders of the Spanish people had positive benefits for the Irish people and that the agreement would be applied to Ireland retrospectively. It was only to be a matter of by how much our burden would be lifted, not if it would be lifted.

Four months on, the Taoiseach is back in Brussels. He has been there a number of times since. He recently took almost all of his Cabinet colleagues to meet the Commission. Unfortunately, there has been no progress on a comprehensive deal on bank debt for Ireland. The lack of action in the intervening period by the Government has allowed the momentum to be lost. A dangerous vacuum has developed. Unfortunately, it has been filled by the finance Ministers of Germany, the Netherlands and Finland, who have put an entirely different interpretation on the outcome of the June summit than that which was presented by the Government.

Tough talk at home and silence where it matters has left Ireland without a deal as we face into another exceedingly difficult budget. Resolute action is necessary. The Taoiseach needs to be heard in Brussels as well as in Belmullet and in Berlin as well as in Ballyhaunis.

It is a good script. The joke department wrote it.

The Taoiseach is representing Ireland at the negotiating table in Brussels today. What is he seeking? In light of the statement of the three finance Ministers, is he asking for clarity concerning whether his understanding of the June summit is correct and still stands?

Will the Deputy distribute his script?

Quiet, please.

Is he asking for a timeline for the conclusion of a deal on Ireland's bank debt? If so, what is it that we are seeking in that regard?

A Deputy

Fianna Fáil is back.

I thank the Deputy for his question. Incidentally, the Taoiseach is the only one of the 27 leaders of the EU member states who had his profile on the front cover of the European edition of Time magazine.

(Interruptions).

It was Time magazine by the way, Deputy Mattie McGrath.

Maybe we will settle down, please.

It should have been the front of The Beano.

Fianna Fáil should remember that its Taoiseach was on the front page for other reasons.

Time sold out in Belmullet.

(Interruptions).

Fianna Fáil will never have to worry about that again.

The Deputies have had their say.

Many of the Deputies may laugh, but I assure them that the other Heads of Government, some of them from substantially sized countries, would give their right eyes for that kind of recognition.

The people of Ireland would give their right eyes for a deal.

It would be better than Fianna Fáil's deal.

(Interruptions).

People cannot eat a magazine for breakfast.

The Taoiseach will wave it around the meeting room today.

Deputies, please.

One would not know which one was speaking.

Excuse me, but there is a time limit on Leaders' Questions. Please allow the Minister to respond to Deputy Dooley.

The Taoiseach is meeting the other Heads of Government from his political family, the European People's Party, EPP, and the Tánaiste is likewise meeting our political family in Europe, the Party of European Socialists, PES. At that meeting, President Hollande of France among other socialist leaders will be preparing politically for the Council meeting later today. My understanding is that they will be confirming that the decision they took on 29 June will be upheld, the details relating to that decision will be fully explored, the recognition contained in the communiqué of that decision in respect of Ireland will be vindicated and confirmed and all of the necessary detail surrounding the decision's implementation will continue to make progress.

The three finance Ministers, in particular the German Minister, are facing into election periods. They made a statement on their interpretation of a particular agreement. The finance Ministers did not attend the June meeting and will not attend today's meeting. The Heads of Government will. In recent weeks, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, and the Tánaiste have visited Berlin, Paris and the capital cities of the larger countries to press Ireland's case and get recognition of the necessity of applying the deal agreed in principle at the June Council to Ireland.

I am glad that the Minister raised the Time magazine issue. Since June, the Taoiseach has spent more time on a lap of honour congratulating himself on having Ireland included in the text without making any real effort to work with the leaders of the other countries. He has not met a single leader in the intervening period.

How would the Deputy know?

I would have preferred it had he toured the capitals of Europe in an attempt to flesh out the deal instead of running around the world's media organisations in the hope that they might have a spare front page at a dead time of the year so that he might present it as a major achievement for Ireland.

The Government was elected on a promise of burning bondholders and removing the burden of bank debt from the shoulders of the Irish people. It has singularly failed to date.

The Minister knows about that as he made certain promises on third level fees and grants.

Is there a supplementary question?

Sadly, third level students are now starting to find out about those. Since the June summit, the Government has also sought to add to the confusion surrounding the deal. It has tried to confuse the issue of promissory notes with the deal supposedly achieved in June.

What is the Deputy's supplementary question?

I have a minute to put my supplementary question and the Ceann Comhairle might allow me to do so.

The Deputy's time is up.

Is the Government still seeking a deal on Ireland's bank debt, as outlined in June? Is it holding out in the hope that the promissory note process under way well before June will somehow be resolved, as the interest issue was resolved? The Government will go on another lap of honour, and perhaps the Taoiseach will be on the front of Vanity Fair the next time.

The Deputy would know much about that.

If I was representing the Fianna Fáil Party, I would not be referring to a "lap of honour". This House can long remember the long extended lap by that party. It was longer than Frank Sinatra's last concert.

The Minister is part of the Government. It is about time it took responsibility

We will not take responsibility for Fianna Fáil's work.

We had the long lap of honour for Bertie and a hand-over in slow motion while this economy was going down the tubes.

Kicking Fianna Fáil helped you going into the election.

(Interruptions).

The Deputies are all suffering from amnesia.

We are not at a county council meeting. Deputies should settle down. Deputy Dooley asked a question and is getting an answer, although he might not like it.

The Deputy referred to a lap of honour twice. I am reminding him of how-----

I was talking about this Government's actions.

-----Micawber this was, all the way to Clara.

Will the Minister do a lap of honour on College Green?

With regard to the question-----

Sign a petition.

-----we are continuing to negotiate the stringent components of the memorandum of understanding on which the previous Government signed off and which this House supported.

That has nothing to do with it.

It is attached to the name of the Irish republic. Fianna Fáil claimed we would not be able to negotiate components of that memorandum of understanding but we have succeeded in so doing. We will continue to do so. It is not easy and the euro crisis has been ongoing for more than three years.

It will be longer.

We are trying to convince those forces that it is in everybody's interest that the Irish get the kind of deal that other member states have been privy to as we were the first over the line. That is why the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach, together with our political families in Europe, of which no other parties in this House are members-----

A dysfunctional family.

We will get their political support and make progress at this Council. Nobody can say what the extent of the progress will be but I know it will go in the right direction.

Where is the game change?

Bhí clár ar TG4 aréir, clár a leirigh scannal mór sa chathair seo. I do not know if the Minister saw the documentary last night but it lifted the lid on what must surely be one of the worst ever planning scandals in this city or the country. The documentary, "Iniúchadh - Oidhreacht na Cásca", has exposed a record of skullduggery and secret dealings between the management of Dublin City Council and developers who want to demolish what is now the national monument on Moore Street and develop a monstrous shopping mall on O'Connell Street.

Is the Minister aware that these backroom deals involved gross misuse of the compulsory purchase order process to the advantage of one developer, Chartered Land, which at the time was not even the registered owner of the lands in question? Will the Government call for full disclosure from Dublin City Council management about all these matters, including full texts of the secret agreements? Will the Minister and the Government call a halt to this scandalous episode?

The vandalism of the site which developers propose to pursue cannot go ahead without the permission of the Minister, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan. He has had this matter on his desk for some months and he can refuse to give the go-ahead to Chartered Land to build on and encroach upon any part of the national monument, the historic last meeting place of the 1916 leaders on Moore Street.

In addition to seeking full disclosure from Dublin City Council, will the Government this morning indicate that the envisaged development will cease and Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, the Minister in question, will refuse permission for it? Will the Government and this Dáil act to preserve, enhance and develop the national monument?

This week my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, launched the reform proposals for local government. These are the most dramatic initiatives of their kind since the formation of local government in 1898. Some commentators have said that this is a usurpation or diminution of powers, with one commentator stating that the Minister had become the undertaker of local government. I refute that.

I have not seen the television programme to which the Deputy referred and cannot comment on the detail but I suggest that the Deputy relay the matter to her colleagues on the city council. Sinn Féin councillors would no doubt share her concerns and I suspect other people on the council would do so also. The place to start an inquiry is with the elected members of Dublin City Council, who should hold the officials of Dublin City Council to account and get information on the issue. The idea that we should rush in on the basis of a television programme and step over the elected members of Dublin City Council is a denigration when I thought Sinn Féin supported local government.

That is an evasion if ever there was one. I do not accept that the Government can simply stand idly by when matters of this scandalous nature come into the public domain. The Minister is well aware that issues pertaining to the national monument have been the subject of widespread debate, including in this Dáil. The Government has a responsibility not just to the city of Dublin but to the entire country to ensure that the mindless vandalism of a national monument and historic site should not be allowed to proceed.

It is a matter of concern for the Government when the kind of shady dealings and very strange occurrences in the largest local authority in the State are laid bare not just in a documentary but in commentary. The city council has a responsibility in this but the Government is in charge and the matter is not localised; the preservation and development of Moore Street and the adjacent lanes beside the GPO is a matter of national concern. The Government has a responsibility to act. The matter is on the desk of Deputy Jimmy Deenihan. It is simple matter as he just has to give the word that the shopping mall development will not go ahead and the Government will undertake to acquire the site and develop it in an intelligent, thoughtful and appropriate way. It should give due regard to the women and men of 1916 and could prove to be a significant attraction and resource for Dublin.

Get off the pot.

I remind Members that when referring to members of the Government, they should refer to them as Minister for X, Y or Z.

Who is Minister X?

There are two issues. I did not see the television programme but the Deputy indicated there were very serious allegations of secret deals and agreements-----

-----to the benefit of one developer over another. I am not sure as I have not seen the programme. The thrust of the Deputy's statement is that wrong practices, including secret deals, were undertaken between the city manager or officials acting on his behalf and a private developer. If that is the case, the first responsibility is with the local government, including the Deputy's party councillors.

The Government parties are in control of the council.

The Government is to close the town councils.

I suggest the Deputy raise the question in the first instance with the council. I will certainly raise it with the Labour Party councillors when I get a chance to see the television programme.

However, in regard to the national monument, I am well aware of the extent of the monument. I was taken on detailed and personal tour by James Connolly-Heron, the great-grandson of James Connolly, the founder of the Labour Party, which took a number of hours. I am very well aware of the issues involved. I am also very well aware of the responsibilities the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan, has in regard to this matter. The Deputy is trying to link two things together which are not necessarily linked. The allegation of wrongdoing is a serious allegation made in the programme. The first responsibility we, as democrats, have is at local authority level. It has direct responsibility for the city manager and for what he is or is not doing. The Minister will make his decision in due course and I can assure the Deputy she will be more than happy with it.

Yesterday the Minister and his party colleagues launched their campaign for a "Yes" vote in the upcoming children's referendum. Like everyone else, I welcome this referendum and look forward to a day when the children of the State will be given the protection they deserve and when stories of abuse and neglect by families and the State will become a thing of the past. However, this week it seems that day is much further away than it was before.

Like other Members, I read with disgust and dismay the findings in Judge Reilly's report on St. Patrick's Institution of children being stripped with knives, bullied by staff members and being forcibly moved to isolation cells using head and arm lock control. This is barbaric behaviour and it would remind us of the treatment of prisoners in Abu Ghraib in Iraq, about which we heard so much about over the years, but it is happening on our own doorstep.

There are even questions for the Minister, Deputy Quinn. Basic record-keeping in regard to school attendance for young people in St. Patrick's is non-existent. This means those young people's lives will be restricted. They will not have had the chance improve themselves during their time in that institution and they will leave it at a distinct disadvantage. All this has being going on right under our noses.

I am aware that the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, instructed the director general of the Prison Service to address these issues within the timeframe set by the inspector but I am very concerned as to whether it is quick enough and at how these abuses are only coming to the fore now. If the Minister, Deputy Quinn, and his Labour Party colleagues truly believe children should be seen and heard, they will act on this immediately. That makes me wonder how it is that the Minister, Deputy Shatter, received this report three and a half months ago but it has only come to light this week. Why did the Ombudsman for Children's concerns in regard to St. Patrick's Institution fall on deaf ear for two years?

The Minister's party leader has stated that this must be addressed but what everyone wants to know and what I would like to hear is when and how. The 2014 timeline for ending the detention in that prison of those aged under 18 must be brought forward. Will the Government do this and will it act for children who want to be seen and heard but who are prevented from doing so in the cruelest possible way?

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter which, I think, is a concern to everyone in this House and is a legacy none us can be proud of. The Minister, Deputy Shatter, informed the Cabinet on Tuesday of this matter and the report. We agreed instantly to his recommendation that it should be published immediately, which he did the following day. His statement is very extensive and it is available to Members of this House if they want to get the full chapter and verse in regard to an outrageous scandal and reflection on all elected persons in this House and elsewhere.

Some things have been done. Sixteen year olds are no longer being detained in St. Patrick's. I am pretty sure, although it is subject to confirmation, that some categories of 17 year olds will be transferred to the Oberstown campus before mid-2014 when all young people under the age of 18 will be detained on that site. We are moving to get everyone under the age of 18 out of the Mountjoy complex where St. Patrick's is located.

The other issue raised, the way in which the Ombudsman for Children was treated, reflects badly on aspects of the Department of Justice and Equality and the Prison Service. I can assure the Deputy that the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, and the Minister, Deputy Shatter, are working closely to address immediately the issues he highlighted.

I thank the Minister. It is vital the timeframe for removing those aged under 18 years from St. Patrick's should be brought forward very quickly. Judge Reilly said he would revisit the prison in November to check on implementation of the findings in his report. I hope that when he does, he will be able to report that the implementation is taking place and is happening quickly. Will the Government correct the record at the United Nations Human Rights Commission where the former Secretary General of the Department of Justice and Equality said these complaints were basically the fanciful whims of children and could not be listened to? It is vital for the reputation of our country and the respect of human rights that the record is corrected.

I can assure the Deputy that all necessary steps required to deal with this issue will be taken. This Fine Gael-Labour Party Government is the first one to establish a dedicated Department of Children and Youth Affairs under the management and control of the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, has probably introduced more reforms in the area of justice in less than two years than any of his predecessors. He has been extremely fearless in confronting interests which perhaps hid behind certain allegations or certain assertions. He will take whatever steps are necessary to ensure Ireland is fully compliant with its international obligations in this regard.

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