Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 24 Jun 1999

Vol. 159 No. 20

British-Irish Agreement (Amendment) Bill, 1999: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Women have been very poorly represented in politics in Northern Ireland but they have been extremely important in civic society in holding it together over the last 30 years. I would be dismayed if the contacts which have been made, not merely on an all-island basis but on an international basis, were not encouraged and promoted. This morning I spoke to a colleague of mine in Northern Ireland, Pearl Seagar, who was so important in the negotiations that took place prior to the setting up of the Assembly. She ran for the Assembly but was not elected. However, she was very instrumental in the election of two members of the Women's Coalition. She is part of an organisation called Vital Voices which is setting up a meeting later this year between women from the Assembly in Northern Ireland, the Scottish Assembly, the Welsh Assembly and from the Oireachtas. People in the various assemblies in these island should make an effort to ensure they initiate contacts if they have not already been made and, if contacts have been made, to ensure they are maintained and strengthened.

I support everything those who spoke about the Council of the Isles said. The British-Irish Interparliamentary Body is interesting in that it includes members from all parts of the islands. What was interesting prior to the Scottish and Welsh elections was the way in which members who hoped to be elected to the assemblies spoke about what we would do about London when we all got together as part of the Council of the Isles. The periphery of the United Kingdom has an enormous amount to gain by having better contacts between themselves and us. I hope this is recognised.

The men in bowler hats who want to march wherever they feel they should are causing a great deal of trouble at the moment. The number of pipe bombs thrown at Catholic houses and schools in the North, one of which resulted in the death of a Protestant woman, has been very much under-reported. I understand why the IRA is very reluctant to give up its arms. However, decommissioning must come some time and they must look at the whole picture. I said this at least five years ago as a member of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. If they could send a parcel of semtex, without a detonator attached, down to a field in Cavan where it could be collected by the Garda, it would be a sign of strength rather than of weakness.

I agree with those who say Mr. Trimble has painted himself into a corner and I do not think it is possible for him to bring his party with him, especially given the recent elections, without a further gesture on decommissioning. Those of us who know people in Sinn Féin should urge them to try to make a gesture like that, even at this late stage. I will certainly be doing so. No guns need to be handed over – I know they said not even a bullet – but semtex can hardly be described as a defensive product. A small box of semtex could be sent to a field in Cavan for collection by the Garda. There would be no need to involve the RUC or the British forces and it would be a great help in moving this process forward.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Cé gur Bille teicniúil atá os ár gcomhair, labhraíonn sé dúinn faoin dul chun cinn atá déanta maidir le deacrachtaí an Tuaiscirt. Labhraíonn sé freisin faoin dóchas a bhí againn sa phróiseas síochána. Im'thuairimse, cé go bhfuil deacrachtaí ann, a luatedh ar maidin, ní féidir a sheachaint go bhfuil cinnireacht i gceist chomh maith. Caithfidh gach éinne cinnireacht mhisniúil a léiriú ag an am seo. Bhí sé soiléir ó thaobh an phobail náisiunta sa Tuaisceart go raibh ar a gcumas teacht le chéile, is cuma cen dearcadh speisialta a bhí ag an dream acu. Caithfidh, im' thuairimse, na hAondachtóiri an rud céanna a dhéanamh.

I welcome the Minister of State and thank him for the background information he has provided. It was evident from his remarks that the amount of work that has gone into the peace process has been huge. It has not always been headline material and people have not always been beating drums about it, so to speak, but people have laboured away in the background in difficult circumstances to find solutions against the backdrop of history. All of those who have been involved deserve our gratitude and in years to come they will be identified as the real patriots in this process.

It is true to say we have reason to be worried but we have had reasons to worry at all stages of the process. Even though this Bill refers mainly to technical matters it should also remind us of great achievements and from where we have come. There is no doubt that the nightmare of Northern Ireland has been replaced by a vision of hope and I am certain that the vast majority of people in the North, as in the South, have not changed their minds since voting on the Good Friday Agreement.

We are told that the long march starting now is about cultural and religious liberties and one must accept that at face value. Perhaps it is not surprising that the Unionist community would have to focus on the same issues that the Nationalist community has had to focus on for so long. However, I do not think parallels can be drawn between the long walk to Drumcree and the Nationalist civil rights movement, as they have come from different bases. One hopes that when we talk about cultural and religious status that we are not talking about supremacy, because the day of supremacy is long gone. Even if there had been no peace process, world events and the cohesion growing among countries, traditions and religions around the world would have impacted on Ireland. It has interacted in many ways with the peace process.

We cannot avoid the conclusion that some of the difficulties that have arisen relate to leadership. At all stages it was evident that the people were prepared to accept leadership on any new development which would arrive at an ultimate solution. The overwhelming vote for the Good Friday Agreement is indicative that the leadership which had been provided was well received. People were prepared to follow a reasoned, well thought out approach which allowed for reconciliation and which moved towards equality. The long walk and many of the difficulties we now encounter are more about leadership in the Unionist community than about decommissioning or other matters which have been referred to. I am disappointed by this because my admiration for David Trimble was growing by the day. I praised Tony Blair for the statesmanship which he displayed and which was somewhat lacking in John Major and I was also taken by Mo Mowlam's execution of her duties. I was taken aback by the attack on her. It had nothing to do with partiality, ability or inclusiveness. Someone was looking for a scapegoat and the unfortunate person selected, Mo Mowlam, was the last person in the world anyone else would have picked. She has displayed integrity and energy, even while ill, which few other politicians could have displayed. She displayed a sense of humour to defuse tension when that was needed. She displayed intelligence in her educated, all-inclusive approach. To target her for any difficulties which may have arisen is sending another message. It behoves David Trimble, if not all leaders, to continue with the type of leadership he has been providing.

When I recently discovered that Jeffrey Donaldson was being brought back onto the Unionist negotiating team, I was unsure whether that was good or bad. It could be good in so far as it shows an attempt to be more inclusive of those with more extreme views. On the other hand, it could signal a backward step and a refusal to develop. Mr. Trimble should have been more forceful in his leadership, as he had been in the early stages, and he could have brought the vast majority of Unionists with him. Unfortunately, the Unionist community has never been used to fragmentation. The Nationalist community has always been fragmented and different groups have had different agendas. The fragmentation of the Unionist leadership and community is a serious development unless one leader – I hope it is Mr. Trimble – decides that he may lose 5 or 10 per cent of the vote but he will have the support of the majority of Unionists as well as the Nationalist community. It suggest there is a need for realignment in Northern Ireland politics.

Where do we go if the peace process unravels? Is anyone honestly suggesting that even 1 per cent of the people of Northern Ireland wants to unravel all the achievements to date and go back to the past? One need only look at tourism. At the height of the ceasefire, tourism increased in Northern Ireland by 60 per cent in 18 months. It almost reached a stage where the South was becoming worried by the North being more competitive than we had expected. It is evident that tourism is an all-Ireland asset and that we must co-operate with each other. The tourism infrastructure in Northern Ireland, which had been lacking, has been built up. It is vital that tourism have a cross-Border element.

In the European Parliament we saw how Unionist politicians sought the support of Southern politicians on agricultural matters, and rightly so. I have had practical cross-Border involvement in the area of art and culture, as Senator O'Toole has had in education. Six weeks ago I addressed the Newry and Mourne District Council when they asked that the all-Ireland fleadh ceoil, which would attract as many as 200,000 people, be held in Warrenpoint. The debate was attended by 27 members of the council and representatives of every political affiliation present supported the proposal. I assured the Unionist representative after the meeting that the Lambeg drum would have as much prominence as the bodhrán at the fleadh ceoil. I have had the same experience with regard to the Irish language, which is not the domain of any particular grouping.

If we are to develop what we have achieved, Unionists must look for leadership to the Nationalist community. John Hume and Gerry Adams, even though each had a different agenda, came together for the common good and took a united approach. That coming together led to David Trimble and Gerry Adams standing alongside each other and referring to each other by their first names. That development was one which we would not have expected ten or 12 years ago.

My hope is that the long walk which began this morning and the Drumcree rally will be peaceful. All people must be allowed to protest peacefully but Unionists must be careful that the leadership of their community is not snatched from those who have courageously taken risks and have proved that the people are prepared to follow when leadership is provided. If the leadership of the Unionist community is seized by the wildcat 10 per cent, the Northern Ireland community will suffer.

There can be no turning back. The mechanisms which have been oiled, put in place and activated must continue to turn. Otherwise, the international community will question our civilised approach to politics. No one wishes us to be pilloried internationally in that way.

We are discussing a technical but important Bill which will facilitate the delivery of Community and cross-Border programmes. We discuss the Bill in a wider context which is difficult and dangerous. The matters we are discussing can only be dealt with properly if the broader problem is resolved.

It is unfortunate that an explanatory memorandum was not provided with the Bill in the normal way. No legislation should be published without a formal explanatory memorandum. The explanatory note which was provided subsequently is welcome but such an explanatory memorandum or note should have been made available at the same time as the Bill.

The Special European Union Programmes Body will advise the North-South Ministerial Council, prepare programmes for the new community initiatives, be responsible for grant making and deal with the area of community and cross-Border co-operation. Substantial funding of 500 million euros will be provided on a north-south basis and a further 150 million euros will be provided to the southern Government for this purpose. This amounts to £500 million which is a very substantial sum and it is important that we have an implementation structure that is above question, legally and otherwise. The size of this sum illustrates the extent to which we rely on European funding to promote and advance the peace agreement.

We all wish to see this aspect of the Good Friday Agreement put into effect as soon as possible. Other Senators have spoken of their frustration and anger at the delay in advancing these initiatives. Education, cultural and tourism initiatives are ready and waiting but cannot be implemented until the Good Friday Agreement is in operation. In Northern Ireland, 71 per cent of the community voted for the Agreement and they are waiting for these initiatives. They want to co-operate with their neighbours and share cultural, educational and other matters to their common benefit. The fact that there is little prospect of proceeding with these initiatives for some time is frustrating for all of us. While violence has ended, the political process has not been put in place as quickly as we expected. We are now at a critical point where the process begun by the Good Friday Agreement may succeed or it may not.

The British Prime Minister has recognised that matters are at a critical point and has invested much time and energy in seeking a solution to the present difficulties before the end of this month. We do not know what will happen if a solution is not found. We are approaching the second marching season since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement. Concern grows about Garvaghy Road and the long march of Unionists which began this morning. Certain elements in the Unionist community have targeted Garvaghy Road as a crisis point, not because they wish to assert their cultural rights but because the Garvaghy Road has been chosen as the place where unionism will make its stand. The long march will aggravate the situation, irrespective of the stated intentions of its organisers. Tension can be expected on the Ormeau Road on 11 July and at the same time nationalism has had a significant victory in the European elections in Northern Ireland and European and local elections in the Republic. The integrity of unionism is in disorder and has become quite fragmented. The Ulster Unionist Party did extremely badly in the European elections, but the DUP, which is opposed to the Good Friday Agreement, did well. Clearly tensions are mounting as this critical point is reached. There are threats to David Trimble's leadership both from within and without his party and this is the reason for the rather pathetic scapegoating of Mo Mowlam and the demand for her resignation. The attack on an easy target is a sign of his own weakness and that he is in difficulties with his party.

The British Prime Minister has put a significant number of his eggs in the one basket, seeking a resolution by the end of the month. Pressure to produce a report is being put on General de Chastelain who, as everybody knows, has only one opportunity to get this right. It he gets it wrong, he will be gone and there will be no future there. He must get the decommissioning issue resolved by agreement. If he is pressurised to produce a report which does not achieve this by 30 June,where is his credibility for further negotiations in the context of the Good Friday Agreement? It is fraught with difficulties. Decommissioning is the key issue and though a formal date was not set in the Good Friday Agreement, it was expected the Agreement would operate in tandem with decommissioning. The only package likely to be successful is one with decommissioning as part and parcel of the two year agreement. A decommissioning demand now could raise great expectations but wherever expectations have been raised there have also been great disappointments. If the initiative now afoot is not successful, the fallout could be greater as a result and could be a serious setback to the entire negotiations.

We have discussed the issue several times in the House and each time there are different crises and different stages of the process. This particular one is the most critical of all. It is important that pressure is kept on the Nationalist and Unionist communities and that neither Government should adopt a position from which they would find it hard to extricate themselves with dignity. They must exercise control and leadership.

I am delighted to see the arrangements being tightened up in this technical amendment and I look forward to the time when we will be implementing all of these initiatives. I am hopeful and I concur with the Leader of the House in urging that there be a resolution by the end of this month. I hope that whatever the outcome, people will allow for a situation where further avenues are not closed and that we can still be positive about the future. The vast majority of the people on both parts of this island have already voted for peace. It is our responsibility to encourage it in whatever way we can and in Northern Ireland to take effective action to ensure that that process is allowed to develop.

It is a pleasure to listen to the discussion in the House this morning. The contributions by all the Senators were very thoughtful and coherent, displaying a deep understanding of all the issues and tremendous sensitivity, yet making reasonable and constructive points. I will touch on the range of issues raised as some overlapped.

I acknowledge the point raised by Senator Manning, Senator Cassidy and others that this amendment is a brief, technical one and it was assumed that an explanatory memorandum was not necessary. I assure the House that there was no discourtesy intended as I was trying to give a background based on the previous debate held here and in the other House and refresh all of our minds on the matter.

I share the concerns raised by most of the Senators about the difficult political situation in Northern Ireland. We all wish those involved every success, particularly the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister. There is goodwill on all sides of the House here as in the Dáil.

A number of Senators, including Senator O'Toole, spoke about potential economic development. Senator O'Toole, who is directly involved in education, made some interesting comments about North-South and east-west economic potential. He emphasised the east-west potential, which I do not doubt, but there is equally great North-South potential. IBEC and the Confederation of British Industry have indicated the economic potential which could be unleashed through improvement in North-South co-operation. Senators will be aware that the proposed EU programmes body, one of the North-South bodies to be set up under the British-Irish Agreement, will be given direct responsibility for the major cross-Border EU programmes. The EU programmes body is to adopt a pro-active role in encouraging North-South co-operation across all EU programmes, the impact of which is far reaching and beneficial. Senator Mooney has pointed out that he is a member of the local authority-based cross-Border groupings. These groupings have already been asked by the two Administrations to draw up integrated strategies for their respective areas and it is intended that these plans will contribute directly to investment decisions made in the next round of Structural Funding. It is also intended that these cross-Border groupings will form a major component in the delivery of cross-Border programmes such as INTERREG and PEACE and will report to and liase with the EU programmes body.

Many Senators spoke of the need for the North-South implementation bodies to be established as soon as possible. The Government shares this aim. However, the Good Friday Agreement provides for all the institutional arrangements under the Agreement to come into force at the same time. That means that the timing of the formation of the new Northern Ireland Executive, the North-South bodies, the North-South Ministerial Council and the British-Irish Council will come into force simultaneously. We would all like to see that happening.

Many Senators also expressed their concern about the recent spate of Loyalist attacks in Northern Ireland. I am concerned also at the number of attacks against members of the Nationalist and wider community by paramilitaries in recent months. There have been more than 150 bomb attacks since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement not to mention the numerous incidents of intimidation and violence. Those who carry out such despicable attacks are enemies of the Good Friday Agreement and the hope and progress it represents. The Government's concern about these attacks is being raised on a continuous basis through the framework of the Anglo-Irish Intergovernmental Conference.

The introduction of the British-Irish Agreement (Amendment) Bill, 1999, while technical in nature, is necessary to afford the certainty required in the British-Irish Agreement Bill, 1999. I thank Senators for their contributions which I enjoyed and appreciate.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Now.

Agreed to take remaining Stages now.

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