COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS debate

Death of Former Chairman: Expressions of Sympathy.

Chairman

We will now have expressions of sympathy on the death of Mr. Jim Mitchell, former Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, followed by one minute's silence.

It is appropriate that it is at a meeting of this committee we remember Jim Mitchell. Those of you who served with him during his two periods as Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts will know how hard and long he worked. He put the public interest first, whether in the examination of the issues hidden in the depths of a departmental Vote or in full public cry at the hearings during the DIRT inquiry. It is perhaps in the latter context of chairing the investigation into the DIRT scandal that he will be best remembered. During the inquiry, and on many other occasions, he put the service to the committee and its work above his personal discomfort.

I will remember him as a party colleague, unselfish in his service to both party and constituents, and as an excellent politician at local and national level. To the end he bore his grave illness with personal bravery and fortitude and with the support of his family and friends. I extend my deepest sympathy to his wife Patricia, his children Ruairí, Sinéad, Niall, Aoife and Caitríona, to his brother Gay and to the rest of his family. May he rest in peace.

Mr. McCormack

On behalf of the Fine Gael members of the previous committee I sympathise with Jim Mitchell's wife, Patsy, and family, with his brother, Gay, and with the other members of his family on their great loss. Jim will be best remembered for his chairmanship of the Committee of Public Accounts and its sub-committee on the DIRT investigation. In his capacity as Chairman he did a great service to the committee, the Oireachtas and the country, at a time when politics and politicians were held in low esteem. Jim served two terms as Chairman of this committee, 1993-95 and from October 1997 to 2001. I was honoured to be on this committee with him for the latter period.

When the sub-committee on DIRT was being set up in August 1999 Jim warned all the members at the time that it would entail sitting during the summer and at weekends. The committee sat for three months and produced a comprehensive report at the end of October. That was an outstanding achievement. Jim drove the committee with vigour and enthusiasm. At the funeral Mass yesterday Father Fitzpatrick recounted an incident from Jim's early life, before he went into politics. At a youth club meeting Jim was addressing the inadequacies of some of the club members and said "Those not fired with enthusiasm should be fired with enthusiasm." That sums up Jim well.

I served for four years with him as Chairman of this committee. We acknowledge he had his faults. He often dominated meetings instead of chairing them but we put up with that frustration because of his hard work and dedication. He had a great sense of the media and lifted the Public Accounts Committee to a new awareness. Members were able to get over their frustrations and complete the work because of the enthusiasm with which Jim was fired. Because of that his sub-committee produced its substantial and significant report on DIRT in record time. Other long-sitting committees might take note of that.

His dedication to his public work on the committee and the time and energy he gave to it was a factor not recognised by the electorate of Dublin Central. Unfortunately, he lost his seat at the last general election and a contributory factor may have been his dedication to this committee. Once more, Jim made the sacrifice in the unselfish pursuit of his public duties. The likes of Jim will not pass our way again. He will be missed by all of us. Go ndéanfaidh Dia trócaire ar a anam.

It is a pity there is only one member of the press here to record the sentiments of members. He is welcome but it is sad that more are not here to hear the tributes of this committee to Jim, who dedicated the last four years of his life to the service of this committee.

Mr. McGuinness

I did not know Jim Mitchell personally but before being elected to the House I came across his name in many constituencies and in many political activities. Where there was a by-election or a political meeting I watched Jim Mitchell. He was efficient at constituency work in terms of achieving things for Fine Gael. He spent many years supporting and developing the party.

I was elected to this House in 1997 and I found Jim to be a thorough gentleman. Even though the work he undertook on this committee was harsh in terms of cross-examination, Jim did it in an inoffensive manner and with a style that drew the necessary information on behalf of either his constituents or the country. Even during his illness he was always very up front about his condition and willing to talk about it. One of the comments I heard in recent days was that he was unselfish about his quota in his constituency. He had moved constituencies and he was always willing to turn around and assist colleagues and so assist the party he represented. That is not common in any political party.

He will be remembered as an advocate of the reform of this House. His legacy is the work and achievements of this committee. He did not do it for himself but rather for the good of the country. Many people have passed through this House and have correctly concentrated on being legislators but have suffered electorally as a consequence. It was particularly sad to see someone like Jim Mitchell suffer electorally. He had spent so many of the previous years working hard and diligently in the interests of the country. This committee must continue to press for reform of the Dáil as a form of tribute to Jim Mitchell.

Mr. Connaughton

It is with great regret that I join in this vote of sympathy to Patsy Mitchell and her family. I see this in a slightly different light because his wife is almost a next door neighbour of mine. We had the pleasure of going to school together. I knew the Mitchells on a personal basis. I agree with the comments made already about his place on the national stage. Jim Mitchell lit a flame that will continue to burn for years. I always remember that at the height of the DIRT inquiry there was not a household in Ireland that did not switch on the television to see the committee's proceedings. It did more for this committee and for the reform of Dáil Éireann than anything that happened in the previous 50 years. The national profile of this House was raised. While great credit is due to all the members of the committee and it was a very important time in their lives, Jim's chairmanship was very professional.

He was also a very energetic Minister. He had refreshing ideas which with which there was not always agreement. His death is a huge loss for Fine Gael and for the country. My abiding memory of Jim is when in 1977 he was Lord Mayor of Dublin. We were all a good bit younger then. He was good currency in Dublin on that occasion. He and his family lived in the Mansion House. His children were the first children to run around the Mansion House. Many people around the country, particularly in Dublin, were very impressed with that because they wanted the Mansion House to be a family home and Jim and Patsy turned it into one.

To his wife and five children and all Patsy's brothers and sisters in Galway and further afield I offer my sympathies. I have lost a great personal friend in Jim Mitchell.

Mr. Ardagh

I wish to offer my sympathy to Patsy Mitchell and the children, to Gay, my constituency colleague, and to the Fine Gael Party on the loss of former Deputy Jim Mitchell. Jim was Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts from 1997 to 2002. He acted as Chairman in a manner which inspired all the members at all times. His chairmanship of the DIRT committee has already been adverted to. It was a task which he carried out brilliantly. The Secretaries General did not particularly relish coming in to the committee because Jim felt that the primary purpose of an elected Dáil Member was to hold the Secretaries General of Departments accountable for the administration of their Departments and the Ministers for the policies of those Departments. Jim's refrain was often "Who was fired? How many were fired?". It was not the case that he wanted anybody to be fired as a result of some slip up but he certainly wanted people to realise that these were new times and that efficiency and effectiveness were required in the public service, something about which he was passionate. He left his mark to such an extent that the respect which the committee now commands from the Administration in general is higher than it has ever been.

I learned a lot from Jim Mitchell. As a Government Deputy a tendency to row in behind the Government on whatever is happening. Jim taught me that I was not elected for the Government; I was elected by the people of the constituency that I represent. I was at all times required to hold the Government and the Administration accountable. It is a lesson which others have also learned. As a result of Jim's time in the Dáil all Members of this House have a more independent and responsible role than previously.

Jim entered public life many years ago. Father Billy Fitzpatrick mentioned that at 17 he had things to say about public life. He became involved as a result of the Just Society document and Declan Costello. He stood aside from a fairly safe seat to allow Declan Costello to go forward for election in the 1970s. Jim always had a constituency where there was disadvantage and where people were poor. He always worked hard and unstintingly for the poor and the underprivileged of society.

Jim was the instigator of the leaflet drop, of hard work in the constituency, of being at every meeting and meeting every constituent. He set an example which all of us now have to follow, even sometimes to our regret. His hard work on the ground set the standard for Deputies everywhere. As Deputy McGuinness said, I believe the legacy of Jim Mitchell will be the reform of the Dáil.

One of the main recommendations of the DIRT inquiry was that there should be reform of the Dáil to ensure questions could be asked and answered and to ensure the Dáil was independent of the Department of Finance so it did not have to go cap in hand to it if it wished to advance in its work.

Jim was very much part of that and his efforts contributed greatly to the foundations of the Oireachtas Commission, which will be set up from 1 January next year. I enjoyed a number of social occasions with Jim and Patsy. He was great fun and a great raconteur. He was a politician of integrity and a personal friend and I will certainly miss him. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam.

Mr. Dennehy

I join other members of the committee in expressing sympathy to Mrs. Patsy Mitchell and her family, to Jim's brother, Deputy Gay Mitchell, his other brothers and sisters and his colleagues in the Fine Gael Party. The combined record of public service of the Mitchell brothers deserves special mention. I also served on this committee in the 1989-92 era under Gay's chairmanship. Both brothers brought the same live-wire approach and commitment to getting the work done. I was privileged to serve as Jim's vice-chairman and to substitute for him during his illness. On the day before his major operation, his commitment to the job was demonstrated by his insistence on having meetings with the C&AG and with me to ensure the work of the committee continued in his absence.

I learned a great deal from Jim Mitchell and I am proud to have served with him. He was unique in his role as Chairman. His style was particularly evident in his preparation for each meeting and his skilful use of his business experience in questioning witnesses appearing before the committee. There were occasions when his approach might be described as ruthless - and necessarily so - in dealing with any attempts at evasion or with somebody who adopted a condescending approach to the committee. Perhaps this was best illustrated in the early days of the committee when Jim's demeanour was upset by suggestions from a number of Secretaries General that they would have to consult with their Ministers before responding to questions. On occasion, he advised such people to consider their position and come back to the committee at a subsequent meeting. Invariably, they came back with the answers. He certainly asserted the wide-ranging powers of this committee very effectively.

I am reminded of another of Jim's achievements by the mention earlier today that a few institutions have dropped back somewhat in the date of publication of their accounts. We had been accustomed to dealing with accounts which were four or five years out of date. He insisted that the various bodies reporting to this committee should have their accounts up to date, emphasising that we should be dealing with the preceding year's accounts rather than an historical analysis. Based on previous experience, I did not believe that was possible but Jim succeeded, by one means or another, in bringing matters more up to date.

It was fascinating to hear Jim Mitchell explain the workings of this committee to any visiting delegation, such as our counterparts from Northern Ireland or from abroad. He was thoroughly familiar with the history of the committee from its establishment, its powers and functions and its relationship with the Dáil, Ministers and Departments. It was most enlightening to listen to his analysis of the potential of the committee. He did not hesitate to highlight any frustrating blockage which the committee might encounter from time to time in pursuing its objectives. That was particularly demonstrated by the changes he initiated to enhance the powers of the committee in relation to the DIRT inquiry. Other aspects of the committee's work may not have gained the same high profile but that work continued week-in week-out under Jim's chairmanship for four years. As a result of his efforts, the committee now has greater powers and responsibilities. Jim Mitchell has certainly left his mark on this committee and his successors will inevitably be compared to him. My advice to any successor is to do as he did. He worked very closely with the C&AG, whose complementary role he fully recognised, and with the secretariat. He was never less than fully briefed, regardless of the background of witnesses appearing before the committee.

We will also miss Jim as a friend. My personal friendship with him developed mainly from 1997 onwards through our involvement in this committee. The extent of his knowledge about his own illness was quite remarkable. Indeed, that was typical of his approach in delving totally into anything in which he was involved. We will miss him but, of course, his lovely wife, Patsy and their family, Patricia, Sinéad, Aoife, Niall and Rory will miss him most of all.

Mr. Curran

I express my sympathy to Jim's wife and family. Unlike previous speakers, I never had the opportunity to know him on a personal level. Despite many constituency changes and boundary adjustments, the constituency which Jim represented at any given time was always close to mine and we kept an eye on what was happening "across the bridge". My first introduction to Jim had nothing to do with politics but with my first day job as young clerical officer with Dublin Corporation. I worked in the housing construction department which was divided into city and county schemes, with a fairly compact staff ranging from clerical officer up to assistant manager. As the junior staff member, I was the runner for everybody else, with five or six bosses.

I particularly recall dealing with what I regarded as a routine letter from a public representative on one occasion. In accordance with normal practice, I drafted a reply and sent it up the line for approval. Having been a few weeks in the office, I felt I had a good grasp of the issues and done a good job on the letter. However, the assistant manager said it was not good enough. When I pointed out that it was very similar to the previous letter I had written, he said there was an essential difference - that this letter was for Jim Mitchell who would be back next day seeking the full answer to his question. Perhaps, as we now reflect on how Jim subsequently made his mark in the Committee of Public Accounts, that incident sums up his attention to detail and his determination to get to the heart of whatever issue with which he was dealing.

Speaking, unlike most others present, as an observer rather than an active participant in politics during the era of the DIRT inquiry and related work of the committee, I would say that Jim Mitchell's public profile was probably higher than that of many Ministers. At that time, politics was going through a rather bad patch and politicians were getting a very bad press. Jim Mitchell and his committee rose above that, performing a detailed job at times, as previous speakers have said, when politicians would normally take holidays or weekends off. The committee stuck to its task under Mr. Mitchell's chairmanship and people saw the merit of his work. The public came to associate the committee with value for money, which is not something that could often be said of tribunals. Much of the committee's work was driven by Jim Mitchell personally.

As an aspiring politician, one always looks at the good and bad elements of the work of others. Deputy Ardagh mentioned earlier that Jim Mitchell was the instigator of the leaflet drop. He was not too far from my constituency and I have to say that word filtered into my area. I followed his lead and used the leaflet drop to great effect. I regret that I did not know Jim personally, although, as a clerical officer, I saw him perform in Dublin Corporation. I admired him greatly, as did other officials. The comment my manager made about the letter I mentioned earlier indicated his knowledge of the man and the general expectation of what he would do. It is regrettable that we have to express sympathies on the death of a man who died at such a young age. May he rest in peace.

Mr. Boyle

On behalf of the Green Party, I would like to be associated with previous speakers' comments on the death of Jim Mitchell and to express my sympathy to his family, friends and colleagues. Although our time as Members of the House did not coincide, I met him on many occasions in relation to political activities such as by-elections and I had several conversations with him. I always found Jim to be well versed in the political lie of the land and I was always impressed with the way he took an interest in talking to someone like me. During our last conversation, just before the election, Jim expressed greater confidence than I had in my prospects of election to this House. I will retain the memory of that conversation.

Jim Mitchell's political legacy will, undoubtedly, centre on his chairmanship of this committee. Despite the fact that he was Lord Mayor of Dublin and a Government Minister, he will be best remembered for his last major political role. He did an enormous service to all politicians by pointing out that being a Member of the Parliament is an important job and one can be quite effective in that role. If we take Jim's lessons on board, we will not forget that being elected involves asking questions and achieving change. His family should be proud of his legacy and it is to be hoped that the current Committee of Public Accounts can build on it.

Chairman

I call the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. John Purcell.

Mr. J. Purcell

I thank the Chair for this opportunity to say a few words about Jim Mitchell, a man I knew for a long time in both his terms as Chairman of this committee. I would like to take the unusual step of putting on the record his tremendous support for the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General. He saw a role for the office in the development of a public accountability framework, appropriate to the 21st century. He always respected the non-political character of the office, which can be a difficult thing to do in certain circumstances, for example when one has a certain power at one's disposal. The non-political nature of my role never impinged in any way on our relationship.

At the first meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts of this Dáil, I spoke of the importance of the special relationship between my office and the committee. The committee will be most effective if we work in co-operation and there is a clear need for a genuine relationship between the Chairman and the Comptroller and Auditor General. The special relationship I have mentioned is best exemplified by the sequence of events that led up to the initial investigation into DIRT by my office and the subsequent DIRT inquiry by the Committee of Public Accounts. Although I was not sure in advance, there is no doubt now that the DIRT inquiry was a success.

Some members will recall an inconclusive meeting of the committee, with the Central Bank, the Revenue Commissioners and AIB, before the investigation took place and before we were sure what could be done. A few days later, Jim called to see me at my office and I knew that trouble was ahead. He asked me what could be done about the matter and expressed the view that we could not leave it uninvestigated. Over a cup of tea, we spoke about possible ways of developing an investigation and debated what would have to be done to bring an inquiry to fruition. The discussion was a tremendous testament to his "can do" attitude.

It was a marvellous privilege for me to work with someone like Jim Mitchell, as he did not think things should stand still, he respected principles while knowing that one had to use them to develop suitable frameworks for a modern system of public accountability and he was not afraid to push out the boundaries. Members have said that he pushed the boundaries beyond the committee's stated mandate. I recall, for instance, that he asked local authorities to attend meeting of the committee - Cork County Council was called in to justify the certification of claims for recoupment from the National Roads Authority and the committee discussed a large payment of compensation with Limerick County Council. He was not willing to deal with the Department or the NRA, as he wanted to get to the root of the problem. I had said to him that neither I nor the committee had a real mandate in relation to local authorities, but he was keen to proceed with the meetings nevertheless. It was a measure of their respect for Jim Mitchell and the committee that the local authorities did not refuse to attend, by citing the Act or Standing Orders. It is a testament to his effectiveness and that of the committee.

While he will always be remembered for the DIRT inquiry, we should not forget other areas where he was willing to push the boundaries out. He was quite interested in working for changes to the courts when they were acting administratively. The tail end of his endeavours in that regard was seen some weeks ago when the committee discussed the administration of court funds and responsibility and accountability for ensuring they were administered effectively. Some work remains to be done in relation to local authorities and I am sure the committee will take up that particular torch.

The priest at his funeral yesterday, along with members of the committee today, mentioned Jim's penchant for headlines. I remember, during a European election campaign, seeing his posters outside my office with slogans like "warrior against waste" and "fighter against fraud". His ability to produce such soundbites was one of his most endearing qualities. I thank the Chairman for the opportunity to pay my respects to Jim Mitchell. I would like to convey my sympathy to Patsy, who comes from a place that I know reasonably well, although not as well as Deputy Connaughton. I have had an association with the area for over 30 years. I would also like to convey my sympathy to Deputy Gay Mitchell, with whom I have had dealings in this committee.

COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS debate - Thursday, 5 Dec 2002

Death of Former Chairman: Expressions of Sympathy.

Mr. J. Purcell

COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS debate -
Thursday, 5 Dec 2002