The third item on today's agenda is the issue of a preferred date and time slot for future meetings. Members should be aware that the final decision in this matter rests with the working group of committee Chairpersons. However, committees are asked to advise as to their preferred day and time and to include some additional nominations in the event that their first choice cannot be accommodated. I draw members' attention to an e-mail received from Deputy Niall Collins suggesting that the committee meet on Wednesdays. I open the discussion to members for their views.
Business of Committee.
I was a member of the previous committee and, traditionally, we sat on a Thursday, which is not a bad day. Members can discuss it among themselves but one of the advantages is that in preparation for the witnesses coming before the committee, not alone does one have the briefing material but on Wednesday one has access to staff in the Comptroller and Auditor General's office to clarify matters. For the two lead questioners, the preparation is important and having access to the staff worked well for us. I propose that we retain Thursday, if possible. I am flexible on the times but Wednesday is a good preparation day for meetings.
I congratulate the Chairman and am delighted to see him in the Chair. His appointment is well merited. This is an important committee; I believe it is the only committee mentioned in the Constitution. I was honoured to be a member of the committee in the 27th Dáil under one of the Chairman's great predecessors, the late Deputy Jim Mitchell. It is an important role on which the Chairman is now embarking, and I congratulate him.
I agree with Deputy Curran. I found that the Thursday sitting worked well. We started some of the work on banking charges, lawyers fees and so on and it gave us a chance to get in early on Thursday. We want coverage for everybody on the committee in terms of the work we will do. I favour meeting early on Thursdays. Dublin Deputies sometimes find it difficult to be here before 10 a.m. because our constituents want us to be present for local events such as funerals, even when the Dáil is sitting.
As a fellow rural Deputy who must travel about 100 miles further than Deputy Niall Collins, I understand the Deputy's concerns. However, a couple of issues must be borne in mind. First, the historical approach of holding meetings on Thursday has, it appears, worked reasonably satisfactorily. Second, given the plethora of committees, I expect Wednesday will be overcrowded from the point of view of obtaining a committee room. I was involved in an informal meeting in a committee room at 11.30 a.m. this morning and at 12.30 p.m. there was a knock at the door and we were informed our time was up.
As has been noted, it has been traditional to meet on Thursday morning. We should, however, meet at 9.30 a.m if possible. While I understand Deputy Broughan's problem of being expected to be in his constituency and the House at the same time, as a Deputy whose constituency is 200 miles away from the House, sometimes the same impossible feat is expected of us. Would Deputies be able to get to the House by 9.30 a.m. on Thursdays?
Deputy Broughan can get an early bus.
I congratulate the Chairman on his election and thank the committee for electing me Vice Chairman. I look forward to co-operating with members for, I hope, the next five years.
I echo much of what Deputy Jim O'Keeffe said. While I have never been a member of this committee, I understand it traditionally meets on a Thursday morning and has never met on Wednesdays for the very good reason Deputy O'Keeffe pointed out.
I am a member of three committees. I am not sure what is the position of my colleagues but Government Members tend to serve on more committees than Opposition Deputies. If the Committee of Public Accounts chooses to meet on Wednesdays, members will be constantly pulled from one meeting to attend some of the many other committee meetings held on Wednesdays. Given the importance of this committee, I do not want to have to leave meetings and many of my colleagues will feel similarly. As this eventuality is less likely on Thursday mornings, I favour meeting on Thursday. As a Deputy who must travel a long distance home, I would prefer to meet earlier rather than later, although I will be flexible in this regard.
I congratulate the Chairman on his appointment. I have not been a member of the Committee of Public Accounts before and look forward to serving on it. I accept the value of holding meetings on Thursdays, as has traditionally been the case, and favour meeting as early as possible because I work better early in the morning. It is a good time to do business.
I am advised that meeting at 9.30 a.m., as opposed to 10 a.m., could cause a problem. In the event of an unexpected event occurring overnight, committee staff may need to process such matters or material. For this reason, a 10 a.m. meeting may be preferable. Given that it is one hour earlier than has been the case to date, a 10 a.m. meeting may be a fair compromise. Do members agree?
If discussion of this item is concluded, I propose that the committee extend congratulations to Deputy Collins and his partner on the birth of their child last week. I also congratulate the Chairman on his assuming the Chair.
While I do not anticipate a problem, in the event of Thursday not being acceptable to the working group of committee Chairmen, do members have a second preference? I attended the Joint Committee on Health and Children, which shied away from Thursday.
For which reason there is no problem.
Our committee requires this room because it has facilities the others do not. It is essential that the committee has this room. As we meet for in excess of two hours, we utilise two slots on Tuesdays. The group would gladly agree to Thursday. Will we run on that assumption?
The Chairman will fight our corner.
I will.
Are we dealing with other business?
Not yet.
I will wait.
Is it agreed to advise the working group of committee Chairmen that we are seeking 10 a.m. on Thursday? Agreed.
On any other business, I wish to advise members that arrangements have been made for the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. John Purcell, to address the committee on his role and that of his office in respect of the PAC at our next meeting, which I suggest should be held at 10 a.m. on 15 November. We will consider correspondence received and deal with other housekeeping matters. In conjunction with the secretariat, I will arrange for a draft work programme to be made available for the next meeting.
The Chairman has answered my question regarding the briefing notes committee members receive. Many of us are new to the committee and I am looking forward to working on it. Will Mr. Purcell's address on 15 November be included in the briefing session on the committee's operation?
Yes. I spoke with Mr. Purcell in anticipation of getting the agreement of members today. The secretariat has also spoken with him. It is good practice because there are many new faces on the committee, including myself. I was a member while former Deputy Jim Mitchell was its Chairman, but we all need an informal session with Mr. Purcell before commencing our real business. Is there any other business?
Will the committee be brought up to date on its reporting at next week's meeting with the Comptroller and Auditor General? I refer to the minute from the Department of Finance.
Yes.
It will be a part of our starting point.
A great deal of work has carried over from the previous Dáil. We must deal with those reports.
They are in reasonably good order.
Our plan will be to meet weekly for the first few months to try to break the back of the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General without breaking our own backs.
When will we get documentation on our meetings?
They will be circulated on Monday. If people would prefer to get them in e-mail or hard copy format, they will be sent to home or Leinster House offices as desired.
Could we have both?
We will be at work on Tuesday. We get enough papers at home.
I congratulate the Chairman on his election. My apologies for being late. I was attending another function down the road and it ran late. I have not been a member of the committee previously. Could it deal with two Departments or bodies on the same day were we to have longer sessions every fortnight instead of weekly meetings?
It is a matter for members. While we would not get tired after spending two or two and a half hours with a Department, we may not give the material the attention it deserves. There is also the practical consideration of people heading elsewhere on Thursdays.
The committee's meetings during the previous Dáil lasted for longer than two and half hours. We started at 11 a.m. and I cannot remember any meeting finishing before 2 p.m. I stand to be corrected.
How often did the committee meet?
Every week. The workload was enormous.
Was that throughout the entire period of the Dáil?
I do not have the dates, but we met every week. We never finished within two or two and a half hours. There is a reporting cycle, so on many weeks we had 20 or 30 minutes of private session before witnesses entered. Meetings took three hours or more. I apologise to the Chairman.
Deputy Clune asked about correspondence.
Yes, I asked about procedures.
The agenda, papers and attachments will be sent wherever the Deputies want, to their homes or offices in Leinster House, by e-mail or hard copy, or, as Deputy Jim O'Keeffe said, perhaps in both formats. Correspondence that arrives on the Monday or Tuesday will be circulated as soon as possible, typically Wednesday.
Could hard copies be delivered to our pigeon holes in Leinster House and e-mails also sent so that those who travel afar can pick them up at home?
We need hard copies here for the meetings.
We will send an e-mail to home and a hard copy to Leinster House. Is there anything else?
I am the only one who has not spoken. I congratulate Deputy Allen on being elected Chairman, in case he thinks I have something against him.
I was getting worried.
I feel privileged being here among the Cork representatives.
I thank the Deputy.
I congratulate the Chairman and look forward to working with him. The PAC is always chaired by the Opposition and the outgoing Chairman, Deputy Noonan, while he gave us a hard time, was an excellent Chairman.
We should remember that Deputy Noonan recently had a health setback and send our good wishes to him. It came at a bad time for me as I was hoping to ask his advice, but I dare not approach him. He will be fine.
The committee adjourned at 3.25 p.m. until 10 a.m. on Thursday, 15 November 2007.