Skip to main content
Normal View

Committee on Public Petitions debate -
Thursday, 23 Mar 2023

Decisions on Public Petitions Received

Next on the agenda is the consideration of public petitions. We have three petitions for consideration today. Petition No. 36 of 2022 is titled "Re-open Ennis, Nenagh and St. John’s emergency departments, and is from Ms Noeleen Moran.

This petition is submitted on behalf of the Mid-West Hospital Campaign group and demands the upgrading of the three hospitals to model 3 level, as well as the reopening of the emergency departments. It was before the committee on 13 October 2022. The petitions case manager corresponded with Mr Ray Mitchell, national assistant director, parliamentary affairs division, HSE, on 29 June 2022 and received a reply on 4 August 2022 from Ms Pamela Jensen enclosing a response from University Limerick Hospitals Group, which was then forwarded to the petitioner for information.

The petitioner further corresponded on 12 September 2022 with documentation which has been sent to mid-west public representatives in support of her petition. The secretariat also sent the petition and the correspondence from University Limerick Hospitals Group to the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, and advised the HSE of same. The Joint Committee on Health was consulted and advised this committee that this topic is not on its work programme. The petitions case manager sought a further update from the HSE on behalf of the petitioner and received a reply from Mr. Ray Mitchell, HSE, and Professor Colette Cowan, chief executive officer of University Limerick Hospitals Group, regarding the petition on 2 March 2023. The committee recommends that the correspondence from Professor Colette Cowan be forwarded to the petitioner for comment within 14 days. Do members have any views?

I acknowledge that it is a fairly extensive response. I thank the case workers involved because a lot of work has gone into this. Hopefully, the case will be resolved at some stage. For the benefit of people watching, we sometimes ask for patience because things do not happen overnight. There is a lot of to and fro but it has to be done. We will work on behalf of the petitioners but, as I have said, I ask that they be patient.

I suggest that we write to the contact in the HSE regarding the responses from Professor Cowan, who states the following at the end of her letter:

We welcome the recent significant investment and bed capacity provided in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. However, it does not sufficiently address the well-documented bed capacity shortcomings in the Mid-West region, nor does it adequately address the continuing growth in demand for emergency care.

In addition to inpatient bed capacity shortages, there is a need to significantly increase the number of NCHDs employed at University Hospital Limerick in order to alleviate growing pressures and to support new Consultant posts approved by government in recent years.

Both of those statements show that Professor Cowan, at management level, is dissatisfied with the level of assistance the hospital has been given to deal with population growth in that region. The sentence on non-consultant hospital doctors speaks for itself. I recommend that the committee contact the HSE and ask for a response to Professor Cowan's statements. Is that agreed? Agreed. I also say to the group, as we have said before, that things move slowly and there is a process in this committee and the Oireachtas. It takes time, and it can be frustrating to wait for a proper outcome. However, to be fair to staff in the secretariat, they do significant work on these cases, including this one. Information received by the committee is forwarded to the petitioner and will be forwarded to the HSE for comment in the next 14 days. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Petition No. 1 of 2023, from Mr. Mark Darmody on behalf of Cara Darmody, seeking immediate financial relief for autistic children whose families are paying privately for assessments and therapies; proper oversight and an external complaints system for the HSE; and a full review of carer's allowance and how carers are viewed. The petitioner advises that this petition has three aspects to it, all of which are connected. First, over 18,000 children are waiting long periods for autistic assessment on HSE waiting lists. It is accepted that it is the State's responsibility, through the HSE, to pay for those assessments. However, because the State is failing in its responsibilities to assess in a timely manner, parents are forced to pay privately for those critical assessments. Parents are also forced to pay privately when the State fails to provide therapy services such as speech and language therapy, SLT, occupational therapy, OT, psychology, etc.

Mr. Carmody advises that no parent should have to finance such services or assessments and that a mechanism must be immediately introduced to ensure that no parent bears the cost for the State's failure to provide services. Second, he seeks an external complaints mechanism for the HSE, as well as a health oversight authority, similar to the present Garda policing model. Parents across the country believe the HSE is not accountable for its actions as it investigates itself. Mr. Darmody contends that the Ombudsman for Children does not have the investigative powers to properly oversee the HSE.

Finally, because having disabled children leads a parent to becoming a carer, the petitioner seeks a full review of the position of carers. The petitions case manager corresponded with Mr. John McKeon, Secretary General, Department of Social Protection, on 2 March and received a reply on 9 March 2023 setting out the Department's position on this matter. The committee recommends that the correspondence from the Department of Social Protection be sent to the petitioner for comment within 14 days and that the secretariat forward the petition to the Department of Health and the HSE for response. Do members have any views?

I agree with the proposal. I understand the frustration from family members and so on. It is similar to the situation with autism in terms of assessment of needs and so on. I ask that we write to the HSE to find out if any of the families in question have ever used an initiative similar to the cross-Border initiative that exists for funding cataract procedures and so on? Has that ever happened for a family? Regardless of whether the answer is "Yes" or "No", if we can find that information, it may be beneficial to the families listening today.

I raised a specific case about carers in the Dáil some months ago. It was a complicated case. The poor lady in question did not have her case resolved in 35 years she had spent caring for a child. The response from the Minister was that there was a separate investigative department within the Department of Social Protection to deal with individual cases on a needs basis. That case was resolved within three weeks. However, had we that information earlier, that poor woman's situation could have been resolved 35 years ago. If the committee agrees, would it be possible to ask the HSE that question when it comes to assessment of needs in this area? Is there a cross-Border initiative and, if so, has it been used?

I have no problem with that. While I know we will submit this matter to the HSE, we received an email from the Parliamentary Questions Office during the week indicating that responsibility for parliamentary questions about disability services has been transferred to the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. It may also be appropriate for us to contact that Department about the Darmody family and the other 18,000 people about the petition.

I agree with Deputy Buckley that there must be some mechanism. It is crazy. We have met the Darmody family. I do not know if Deputy Higgins has also met them but she has been up in that area. All of these families are entitled to have the assessments paid for but there is a major backlog. If a family pays for an assessment, it is not reimbursed. It must be possible to bring in a system. I know some families have borrowed money to have a child assessed and they are reimbursed down the line when the State accepts responsibility and admits it should pay for the assessment. It will pay at some stage but it could be two or three years down the road after a child is assessed.

That is too late.

If a family pays for an assessment, it should be reimbursed. I have met the Darmody family. One of its concerns is that the mother has suddenly become a full-time 24 hour carer which, if it were a full-time job, would work out at €1.25 per hour. That is what the carer is getting. We will pass the petition on the relevant bodies and see what comes back. The response will then be sent to the Darmody family for comment. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Petition No. 4 of 2023, from Mr. Daniel Culkin, seeks to remove the third language requirement for undergraduate courses in Irish universities, unless relevant to the course.

His petition relates to the requirement for a third language at leaving certificate level which is a requirement to gain entry to the majority of courses in most Irish universities. Mr. Culkin believes most schools are only able to offer classes in French as a third language option, which he considers has no bearing on medicine, dentistry, physiotherapy, radiography and so on. He also contends that most students only have a choice in three out seven subjects and that students who excel at science subjects but struggle with foreign languages are at a disadvantage. He believes that students attending private schools can study an additional subject to use instead of a third language. This puts them at an advantage over students who attend public schools. Students may also be at a disadvantage if their school only offers classes in one third-language option. The petitions case manager corresponded with the Secretary General of the Department of Education, Ms Bernie McNally, and received a reply from Ms Martina Bulman, private secretary to the Secretary General of the Department of Education on the subject of this petition on 21 March 2023. The committee recommends that the correspondence from the Department of Education be sent to the petitioner for comment within 14 days. Do members have any views?

I simply agree with it. It is an interesting aspect and I would like to see the response when it comes back.

It is interesting. We receive many different petitions here and unfortunately, while we might agree with the sentiments behind a petition, it would often cost millions of euro to act upon them. This does not sound like it would require a money message - forgive the term. It sounds as though this might be really practicable and that we could look at it. I personally agree with the thrust of the issue, but it would be interesting to explore. It is fantastic that we get the opportunity in this committee to engage with people who are impacted by issues of concern to them. However, where we can matter most is if we are able to act on those things. We cannot do so in budgetary decisions or operational decisions taken by the HSE but perhaps we could exert some influence on universities in a situation like this.

I am looking forward to receiving his reply to the Department's correspondence. I agree with the other members of the committee.

I absolutely agree.

That is agreed.

That concludes our consideration of public petitions this afternoon. I invite members of the public to submit petitions via our online portal, which is available at petitions.oireachtas.ie. A petition may be addressed to the Houses of the Oireachtas on a matter of general public concern or interest or on any issue of public policy.

The final point on the agenda is any other business. Would members like to make any other comments?

I thank the committee, the secretariat and all the staff for the work they do as a phenomenal amount of work goes into this. It must be acknowledged.

As always I also want to be associated with that comment. The amount of work that is done by the staff is unreal and makes our job easy.

The joint committee adjourned at 3.23 p.m. until 1.30 p.m. on Thursday, 30 March 2023.
Top
Share