Can the President say, at this stage, whether or not it is proposed to take the Estimates to-day, and if so, can he name the particular items that are to be taken?
ARRANGEMENT OF BUSINESS.—THE ESTIMATES.
It is proposed to take the Estimates if, with the help of God, we arrive that far, in the order in which they are found, and take them up from where we stopped on the last day.
Would the President, in view of the illness of the Minister for Finance, consider the desirability of taking another Vote on account and postponing the consideration of the Estimates until the Autumn Session?
I do not think that would be a good precedent to set up in this matter.
Would it be possible for the President to set down the Estimates for one day; that is, for one day definitely?
I hope to be able to give more than one day to the Estimates. But we are in this position, that there is a heavy agenda of legislation, and it is hoped to get most of these Bills out of the way before we deal with the Estimates.
Would the Minister consider the advisability of dropping the Estimates for which the Minister for Finance is directly responsible; that is to say, the estimates relating to Departments for which he is directly responsible, and going ahead with the other Estimates?
I hope to be able to deal with the Estimates of the Minister for Finance. The Minister, I fear, will not be present until after the Session has concluded.
Is the Minister aware that the difficulty with Deputies is that they never know when the Estimates are coming on. They are on the agenda all the time, but they have not been discussed, except on one or two occasions. It is rather unfair to the busy Deputies not to know when important Estimates are coming on.
Would the President, instead of using the Estimates as padding to fill up the interstices of the Orders of the Day, set aside a day, or even a week, for the Estimates, and nothing else but the Estimates.
That would hold up public business which it is urgently necessary to transact. In this way, many Bills of which the Deputies know and which are under consideration, and which it is absolutely essential to pass, would be held up. There are two on the Order Paper to-day which ought to have been passed before this in order to give the prisoners the opportunities which will be derived by others as soon as the Bills are passed. Then there are other Bills, such as the Dublin Reconstruction (Emergency Provisions) Bill, the importance of which will be realised when they are under discussion, and I do not see my way to postpone these Bills. I am prepared to sit longer, later, and oftener in order to deal with the work.
In the event of it being impossible to deal with some of the Estimates before the adjournment, and of their having to be passed without discussion, will the President give facilities in the Autumn Session for consideration of those Estimates, either by giving additional time to private members' business or in some other way? Deputies might be anxious to discuss the conduct of affairs of different Departments that cannot be fully discussed now.
I could not undertake to promise that. Deputies know very well that there are certain Bills which must come on for consideration in the autumn, and which will need very careful attention. There is, for instance, the Defence Forces (Temporary Provisions) Act, and several other measures of importance. It must be, I think, admitted, that for the last couple of years, and for another year or so, there has been, and there will be, some congestion in the matter of legislation.
Does the Minister ask us to assess the relative value of estimates and of legislation, and put estimates as something much subordinate to legislation? Does he suggest that the precedent set in the matter of legislation is one that will have to be followed in future years?
I hope not.
Would it be possible to arrange that nothing but estimates would be taken on Thursday? Then every Deputy would know when Estimates were coming on. Either Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, or if necessary Saturday, could be arranged for the purpose of considering Estimates only.
I will get an opportunity of seeing the schedule, and I hope by to-morrow to be able to say if it would be possible to arrange that.
Pending the consideration of the matter by the President, could the Estimates not stand over for the present? We are in this uncertain position that we do not know whether the Estimates will come on to-day or not. Some of us are very anxious to have an opportunity of discussing certain Estimates, and we do not know if it would be necessary to wait on until a late hour to-night in case the Estimates may be taken up. I would suggest that the whole matter of the Estimates be left over.
I could not accept that.
Could it be arranged that we would take the Estimates for three hours on a given day, and then take legislation subsequently? That would give Deputies an opportunity of being present. What does the President intend to do on the 15th July when there may be Estimates unfinished?
I hope there will be none of the Estimates unfinished that day.
The President is an optimist of the finest character.
I wish the Ceann Comhairle would share my optimism.
What is it intended to do?
I believe we will have to sit oftener and later.
Will the Minister guarantee that the parties backing up the Minister for Finance will always be present in full force?
If it is the settled policy to have Closure by vote or Closure by exhaustion, I would prefer to have Closure by vote.
It must be remembered that Closure by exhaustion has been practised on Ministers.
In the alternative of fixing a definite day, would the President also consider the suggestion to have the Estimates taken at a fixed hour on a certain day, and that all business be suspended at that moment, the Dáil then to enter upon a consideration of the Estimates for a given period of time?
Has it come to this, that the Dáil is to suit the convenience of one or two Deputies, and that the remainder of us are to sit here all the time? That is what the arguments put forward amount to. The sooner, I think, that every Deputy accepts his responsibilities the better. I think every Deputy should take part in the business of the Dáil.
The Deputy's remarks are entirely uncalled for. If he had a proper sense of his responsibilities in the Dáil he would regard the Estimates as the most important work to be done. Many of us have received complaints, and we desire to bring these forward when the Estimates come on for consideration. I think it is quite right and proper that we should be given adequate notice, so that we may be able to get our papers in order and be in a position to discuss the Estimates.
When the Estimates are on the Government benches are generally empty.
That sneer is not deserved from the Deputy who always absents himself from the Dáil when a vote is being taken.
We need not go into these matters now.
I beg to move that the House sit later than 8.30 p.m., the adjournment to be taken not later than 10 o'clock.
Question put, and agreed to.