It would be impossible to run two stations, one a high-power station and the other a low-power station, with the same wave-length in the same country with different programmes. It was for the purpose of eliminating interference in that way that highly populated districts, from a broadcasting point of view, in European countries recently met. In the Free State area to have a high-power station and a low-power station with different programmes on the same wave-length would lead to great confusion. I take the liberty to suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary that that matter was overlooked, or that the Ministry of Finance has no intention of permitting the erection of a central high-power station.
The Parliamentary Secretary might satisfy me to a certain extent if he were to state what site has been decided upon. We were told last year that a great many technical experiments had been made in order to satisfy the Department that they were going to get the best class of high-power station. The Parliamentary Secretary also used the argument that, in view of the fact that wireless broadcasting and the instruments used therewith had not become properly stabilised, it would be bad policy to embark upon a huge expenditure for the erection of a high-power station and purchase of plant which might have to be scrapped after a very short period. Last year the Parliamentary Secretary indicated clearly that the time had been reached when such instruments and materials had become fairly stable, and when it would be fairly safe to embark on the erection of the station. He has, however, neglected to refer to this in a definite manner, and I hope that when he replies he will give some satisfactory indication as to the proposed position of the central high-power station.
I wish to emphasise the fact that broadcasting would be of great service to the schools. It is considered essential to embark upon a huge expenditure for the electrification of the country, in order to provide current to light the homes of the people and provide power for industry, but the farmer, if he were asked to choose between an electric bulb in exchange for his candle or lamp or a crystal set to receive some little entertainment during the dark winter nights, would choose the crystal set. I have made inquiries, and I find that in the rural areas the introduction of receiving sets into the homes, even if they were only crystal sets, would be a great boon. Even if some of these people are not going to get light from the Shannon scheme, at least they should get that little bit of brightness in their homes. I believe that the return in the way of licence fees and import duties on the sets would amply compensate the Department and that there would be no loss to the State.
I also wish to refer to the Board constituted to control broadcasting. I understand that the Chairman of that Board is the Secretary to the Department, and that the Secretary of the Board is the Director of broadcasting. I have nothing to say against either of these gentlemen, and I do not wish to be misunderstood, but I do say that as permanent civil servants they are, to a certain extent, in the position of having the right to sit in judgment on themselves. I suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary that he might study the regulations setting up that Board to see if he could not allow the Committee, which represents the Department and outside interested bodies at each particular sitting to elect their own chairman. The position now is that if the permanent chairman is absent a member of his Department, who is not a member of the Board and has no statutory right, acts as chairman. I do not know whether the Parliamentary Secretary is aware of that or not, but it shows the necessity of getting this Board to work on a different basis. I do not suggest that the Board should interfere with the working of the Broadcasting Station, other than to recommend certain changes or alterations, and, in particular, to make recommendations in regard to the matter to be broadcast.
As to the Director of Broadcasting, the position appears to me this way: the Director is a member of the Civil Service, and if he, for the time, were changed and somebody else put in his place he would not suffer in any way. I am not suggesting that any person should lose his position, but I say that a change of Director would mean that we would have better chance of getting a complete change of programme. I do not know whether my Party will approve of my quoting from the official organ of the Government, "The Star," but I shall take the risk. In the issue of 16th March that paper winds up an article on wireless in this way: "The opinions of the Director are not always infallible, or disinterested, so why not consult the people at the other end?" I say that the Advisory Committee, which is chosen to act with the officials of the Department, might be able to have some of their recommendations accepted and put into operation if (1) the chairman was elected by the Committee themselves; (2) if the Director could be changed so as to have one person one day and another person another day, as having the same individual all the time does not allow for any real change in programme.
The number of licence holders in the Free State is 26,000. I want to show that there is evidently dissatisfaction of some kind with the broadcasting station as at present run. On several occasions an appeal was made from the broadcasting station to listeners-in to express an opinion with regard to certain matters. I understand that the greatest number of replies received to any appeal, no matter how urgent, did not exceed forty. If an urgent appeal to the listeners-in by the station for the purpose of getting suggestions for a better service is only answered by 40 out of 26,000 licence holders—and we may assume that at least one-third would be listening-in to Dublin—it goes to show that there is evidently no very great hope of getting any change made under present circumstances. The Parliamentary Secretary is aware that several written complaints have been made to his Department. Several matters have received attention, but the complaints themselves have never been adjusted in the sense that the person complaining has got complete satisfaction. As against that, there is a wireless organisation in Dublin that on one occasion issued an appeal to the public to turn up to a particular meeting, and while there were only ten or twelve members of the organisation present, the appeal was answered by over 150 people, which shows at least that they had the ear of more listeners-in than the broadcasting station itself.
I understand that there are great demands for a central power station, and various reasons are given as to why it cannot be gone on with at the present time. One of the reasons I took note of one time was that the high power station would be erected when it was possible to get power from the Shannon Scheme. I put it to the Parliamentary Secretary that a stand-by plant will always have to be kept in the central power station because in the event of a break-down in the power supplied by the Shannon, that stand-by power plant would come into use and you would get into touch with the whole country independently of the Shannon Scheme. It will have to be there; it will have to be got some time, and it might as well be got sooner as later, and that should not be one of the stumbling blocks that would impede the erection of a central station.
There is another matter to which I would draw the attention of the Parliamentary Secretary. I do not know whether he has any recommendation from his engineering staff in regard to it, but as far as I can judge the overhead wirings of the Shannon scheme, when the power is turned on, will react in the shape of a carrying wave which will interfere with reception. Has the Parliamentary Secretary had any information from the engineers in his Department upon that matter and will he see that some precautions are taken whereby the whole overhead wiring, particularly from Dublin to Limerick, in connection with the Shannon Scheme, is not going to act as an aerial which is considerably over a hundred feet in length and gives off a carrier wave much greater than the listeners-in with one hundred and fifty feet which is prohibited because of the interference caused by the carrying wave.
On the last occasion the Parliamentary Secretary gave us some information about the news. I wonder if the position is the same to-day. Are we still broadcasting the news we are getting free and which it was agreed upon on the last occasion was more or less in the nature of propaganda? We are all aware that the news broadcasted by the English stations is only such as the British Censorship or the British Government, after condensing or receiving, allows out. I think we should try to arrange now to get news independent of the English broadcasting stations, and I believe it is not a matter that would entail any great cost.
Representations have been made to the Parliamentary Secretary on many occasions for a programme for at least half an hour and if possible for one hour during the day. These representations were made on the one hand by those concerns that sell wireless accessories or sets. At the present time unless they keep their business houses open until eight or nine at night it is impossible for them to demonstrate a loud speaker or a wireless receiving set by tuning in to Dublin, and while it may seem peculiar, one of the main points concerned in the purchase of a set is that people want a set that will permit them to cut out Dublin when required. The only way that can be tested is when Dublin is in operation, and as Dublin does not operate in the afternoon except an occasional Saturday afternoon it is impossible for those traders to demonstrate their sets to prospective purchasers. One hour per day I understand would cost something like £100 or £200 a year. You do not necessarily need to give a programme in the sense of the programmes given in the evenings. Gramophone records, as are used on Continental and English stations, would suit, and not only would that be of use at the present time in helping people who make these representations but it would be a start off towards the general idea of developing a midday programme which eventually could be taken advantage of by schools in particular.
I should like to know if the Parliamentary Secretary has taken steps to find out the number of users of crystal sets as distinct from those who use valve sets. It might appear a very difficult problem at the outset, but inasmuch as it is very easy for the authorities to tell whether a person owns a male or a female dog it would be just as easy for the authorities to know whether a person was the owner of a crystal or a valve set, and instead of having a licence, as we have, which is practically a copy of the English licence, we should endeavour to have one of our own, and when a person is taking out a licence for a wireless he could very easily fill in an extra column and say whether the licence was for a valve set or a crystal set, so as to enable the Parliamentary Secretary to know how technically to distribute his programme and to get in touch with listeners-in on a proper basis and he would know how many crystal as well as valve sets he had to cater for.
I am told, of course, also that there is a view by the Department that it would not suit them at the present time to erect a central high-power station because of the fact that while there is no high-power station the people in the country are bound to have a set of a rather expensive nature, a valve set. If a central station were erected there would be the possibility of these people being able to use crystal sets and thereby the revenue derived from the import of valve sets would be eliminated and the State would have to suffer a loss. I do not think that people generally would quarrel with the erection of a high-power station and the use consequent upon them by a great number of people of even crystal sets. I do not expect the Parliamentary Secretary will answer all the points I tried to bring to his attention, but I would like to emphasise that there is a persistent demand for a definite statement as regards the erection of a high-power station. A year ago we were told it was in contemplation and that we could expect an announcement in the very near future. That question was asked by two or three Deputies on the last occasion, and if the Parliamentary Secretary will read the Debates he will find that when the question was asked the first time he answered "in the immediate future." When it was asked the second time he answered "in the near future," and when it was asked the third time he said "in the future." So I take it that according to the Parliamentary Secretary the nearer he gets to it the farther away we are from it. I would like an approximate date as to his future so far as the high-power station is concerned and when it will be gone on with.
He referred also to the capital expenditure on the installation of the stations themselves. From the Estimate it is not quite clear that the amounts spent upon plant were charged on the capital accounts. I would like the Secretary to state what is the actual expenditure on the existing stations. The Parliamentary Secretary referred to the fact that there was a decrease in the Estimate but there is no decrease. The fact of your having to buy a little less plant for your already erected station does not mean you made any saving, but that you ceased to make further capital expenditure. Therefore there is no decrease. There is, in fact, a slight increase. If you were to take the Parliamentary Secretary's method of calculating, the difference between expenditure in excess or expenditure in less amount under E in 1928-29, the amount spent for purchase and erection of plant, renewals, maintenance, etc., was £2,300, and this year it is proposed to spend £1,350. It is between these two figures the item of decrease comes to a great extent and brings about a saving.
The Department has to be congratulated on the change they have made in the new addition, in the sense of having their studio erected in a different place. It has given, I understand, great satisfaction from the point of view of broadcasting, and will, I believe, be usable even when the proposed new central station is in use. I ask the Parliamentary Secretary also if he would be prepared now to state that he himself will consider the possibility of giving the Advisory Board some powers with regard to the recommendations which they make being put into operation. I believe that if he will agree to have this Board sit if they like to discuss programmes only, and on those occasions to permit them to elect their own chairman for the time being, then a particular difficulty will be overcome and there will be a great deal less complaints received by him from particular members of the Advisory Board, wireless organisations and the public generally. By putting on the extra hour's programme during the day he will be doing a great service to the traders to whom, on his own admission, he owes a lot and from whom revenue is derived on the importation of wireless sets and parts. As ratepayers and people who have helped tremendously in the development of wireless in this country, they should be considered. The cost is going to be a very small matter in comparison with this whole Vote. I hope the Minister will give those points the same attention as the criticism offered to him on the previoue Vote which he has had under discussion, and I hope his reply will be more favourable to those who are interested in having those improvements brought about.