asked the Minister for Finance whether he is aware that the low wage of 4/- per day is being paid on schemes of work carried out by the Office of Public Works, and whether in view of the low rate of wages he will issue instructions forthwith to increase the wages.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Wage-Rates on Public Works.
The rate of wages paid on relief schemes, other than minor relief schemes, is the county council rate. On minor relief schemes, which were originally designed to deal with and confined to specially necessitous agricultural areas, the rate of wages is related to the wages paid to agricultural labourers in the district.
In response to strong local representation, grants for minor relief works have this year been made to counties to which they had not heretofore applied; these grants, naturally, carry with them the conditions which have always applied to and been accepted in relation to them.
In certain cases this extension has caused anomalies, having regard to which it will be necessary to consider whether minor relief grants should be made in future in these areas.
The whole of the funds provided for relief of unemployment are now allocated; out of these funds ten thousand men are now employed on minor relief schemes; if any change were now made in the wage rate, it would entail a considerable reduction in the number of men employed.
Arising out of the Parliamentary Secretary's reply, might I remind him that when charged in this House last week with paying a rate of wages less than the rate of wages paid to agricultural workers, the Parliamentary Secretary stated that if that was happening it was happening in violation of his orders? In view of that statement by the Parliamentary Secretary, supplemented by the answer to my question now, will he explain to the House why his printed instructions to the county councils contain this provision: "The rates of wages in the case of relief works should, where possible, be fixed on a lower scale than that normally paid to agricultural workers in the district?"
It is time you found them out.
And further, will the Parliamentary Secretary state whether he is aware that under his notoriously low 24/- a week he is paying a rate of wages lower than the county council are paying for a similar class of work —a rate of wages lower than that paid to agricultural labourers—and that his instructions are a direct incitement to cut wages?
Hear! hear!
And will he say how his Department reconciles this wage policy with the previous policy of standing for a Christian social system, which has been so often stated from the Front Bench of his Party?
I think there are about 15 questions there. I have already asked the Deputy to give me particular cases in which the wages paid under minor schemes are lower than those paid to agricultural labourers. I am still waiting for that.
Are we to take it from the Parliamentary Secretary's reply to Deputy Norton's question that the wages fixed for relief works by the previous Government—29/- a week—were based on the rate of wages paid to agricultural workers? Are we to take it that the wages of agricultural labourers have been reduced by at least 5/- per week since the present Government came into power? I would like to ask, as a further supplementary, if the Parliamentary Secretary will say whether 24/- a week is a flat rate over the Twenty-six Counties, or whether there is any variation.
Mr. Kent rose.
Let him answer one question at a time. Otherwise he will try to sail away from mine.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary state what are the rates of wages farmers' sons and daughters earn at the moment, before we compare the rate of wages of agricultural labourers.
Farmers' sons are earning all the wages on relief works. Would the Parliamentary Secretary deny my statement that the working hours on minor relief schemes for the same wage have been increased during the time he has been controlling them?
Instructions were given to the surveyor that the people should not work after dusk.
I was expecting that the Parliamentary Secretary would try to sail away from my supplementaries. Might I ask whether he is prepared to answer them or not? Does the Parliamentary Secretary refuse to answer my supplementaries?
Would the Deputy repeat the question?
Does the Parliamentary Secretary refuse to answer my two supplementary questions, which were put quite clearly and were heard by every member of this House?
The difficulty is that the Parliamentary Secretary is not able and not anxious to take down in shorthand all the questions. The Deputy asked three questions, two of which were irrelevant. The two irrelevant questions obscured from the Parliamentary Secretary's recollection the one which was relevant. If the Deputy will now repeat the relevant one it will be answered.
Fortunately you, sir, are the judge regarding what is relevant and not the Parliamentary Secretary. I asked were we to take it from the answer the Parliamentary Secretary gave to Deputy Norton's question that the rate of wages paid to agricultural labourers had been reduced by 5/- per week since the Fianna Fáil Government came into power, having regard to the fact that the rates of wages fixed for relief schemes by Cumann na nGaedheal were 29/- per week, and the second question I asked, not the third, was whether the 24/- a week was a flat rate for the whole Twenty-Six Counties, or whether there was any variation, and if so, whether the 24/- a week was a maximum or a minimum rate?
The first statement of the Deputy that a rate was fixed of 29/- per week is incorrect. I have no information of any kind which would lead me to believe that that is correct.
You were not here at the time.
I was. It is rather difficult for me to answer both irrelevant questions and irrelevant interruptions at the same time.
A Deputy
Unless they come from your own side.
It does not matter which side they come from. The second question is whether or not there is a flat rate. The answer is there is not necessarily a flat rate unless there is necessarily a flat rate on agricultural wages.
They are not worth 24/- a week if that is your answer.
Are we to understand from the Parliamentary Secretary, who is designated as the Apostle of low wages even by members of the official Labour Party, that 24/- a week is the standard wage agreed to by his Department?
In view of the playful and unsatisfactory answers of the Parliamentary Secretary on this matter, I propose to raise this question on the adjournment.
I told you you would find him out.
Mr. Corry made an interjection.
You are a nice hero— shot men like that—manacled.
I want to draw the attention of the Chair to the statement made by Deputy Anthony with reference to Deputy Corry and I ask that that statement be withdrawn.
Deputy Anthony has called a Deputy on this side a murderer.
No, I said executioner, but there are two sides to that question. Deputy Corry also said something to me.
The Chair did not hear the remarks.