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Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 14 Jul 1933

Vol. 48 No. 19

In Committee on Finance. - Appropriation Bill, 1933—Committee Stage.

Mr. McGilligan

I have a group of amendments here which I should like to hand in.

Mr. MacEntee

I understand that amendments have been handed in. On that question, I would submit that it is not possible at this stage to take amendments to the Appropriation Bill in view of the Title of the Bill, which accurately describes the principle. The Title of the Bill is: "An Act to apply certain sums out of the Central Fund to the Service of the year ending on the thirty-first day of March, one thousand nine hundred and thirty-four and to appropriate the supplies granted in this session of the Oireachtas." An amendment would provide for an alteration in the sums just voted by the Dáil or in the appropriation of the supplies just granted. The purpose of the Bill is to apply sums which the Dáil has already determined and to appropriate them to their proper services. I suggest, therefore, that no amendment can be taken at this stage.

Mr. Costello

I have just handed in an amendment which I suggest is clearly in order and within the scope of the Bill, and it is not directed to either of the purposes mentioned by the Minister for Finance. The Minister for Finance may possibly learn from his Attorney-General that the only power of issuing a National Loan is under this Appropriation Bill which is now going through the House. It is a very important matter from the point of view of the country. If the Minister searches in the files of the Department of the Attorney-General, he will find a very elaborate exposition of the powers in connection with Loans. He will find that the only power to issue a National Loan is under this Bill, and the amendment I have put in—I think there is another one in Deputy O'Sullivan's name—seeks to provide that before the borrowing powers are exercised and before the National Loan is issued this House will have an opportunity of expressing its opinion on the loan.

Mr. Morrissey

On a point of order, I want to submit that we are now discussing the Bill and that this Bill has to go through its five stages just the same as any other ordinary Bill. It has always done so. I say, sir, again with all respect that the more the Minister seems to study the Standing Orders the less he seems to understand them.

Mr. McGilligan

"Study" is not the word.

Mr. Morrissey

I am being charitable.

Mr. MacEntee

The Deputy cannot afford any charity for me or anyone else. He wants it all for himself.

Mr. Morrissey

I can at least afford some for the Minister and the Minister is now calmly suggesting that we ought to take the five stages of the Bill and that you, sir, should not accept amendments which are not in order. Is the Minister suggesting that the amendment should not be accepted because sufficient notice has not been given in accordance with the Standing Orders? I think it is an insult to your intelligence to suggest that you should not accept the amendments if they are in order and relevant to the Bill. I think the Minister for Finance should have some respect for the Chair and some respect for the House.

Mr. MacEntee rose.

Mr. Morrissey

Is this a point of order, sir?

Mr. MacEntee

I am suggesting that the business of the House was to conclude all stages of the Bill before 12 o'clock.

Deputies

To-night.

Mr. MacEntee

First of all, I submit that the provisions of Standing Order No. 25 in regard to giving due notice of amendments have not been complied with. Secondly, I submit that the House has determined by its previous practice on such Bills that due and formal notice should be given.

Professor O'Sullivan

I suggest that the procedure of the House was determined in previous years in regard to this Bill, and secondly, I suggest that this Bill has some significance. If you are to accept the point raised by the Minister for Finance, the only conclusion we can come to is that the Bill has no significance and that it cannot be amended—that, in other words, there is no use at all in going through the formality of passing the Bill. I suggest that it is making nonsense of the procedure of the House to suggest that a Bill which has to go through five stages means nothing. I suggest there is nothing to differentiate this Bill from other Bills, that it is a Bill which must become an Act. It must go through five stages. We have had amendments handed in before now. Therefore, the last point raised by the Minister for Finance, I suggest, is not relevant, so far as precedents are concerned. It was always at the discretion of the Opposition or any member of the Opposition to object. The fact that you have a Bill means that the Bill must mean something, and unless it can be amended the Committee Stage means nothing.

Mr. McGilligan

On the same point I have another amendment, but it is not one of the two types to which the Minister for Finance has objected. I want to get an opportunity of putting a point of view in relation to the point of order that amendments of these two types are out of order. I put it to you that the Appropriation Bill is not a Bill of a peculiar type, at least peculiar by itself. It is only one of the classes of Bills which found on resolutions which originate in Committee on Finance. There are Bills other than the Appropriation Bill which so originate. The Butter Prices Standardisation Bill was a Bill of exactly the same sort and it originated in Committee on Finance. There was a certain subsidy, or a certain price, fixed by that particular measure, and it will be within the remembrance of Deputies that many amendments were moved on the Committee Stage. On that analogy, I think it is quite clear that an amendment either to remove an appropriation or to reduce an appropriation is quite in order on this Bill. The Bill is not of a class peculiar to itself. It is one of many Bills arising out of this type of resolution, and amendments have been moved to such Bills.

There is the second point raised by Deputy O'Sullivan that if the Minister's point is correct it would render the whole scheme of the measure futile. That is not exactly the objection from the Minister's point of view. The procedure of the House is in general that there should be five Stages of a Bill, and the five Stages must admit of some amendment. On the point of the amendments, it is quite clear that the Chair is at liberty to receive amendments at shorter notice than is laid down in the Standing Orders. It is quite clear that to a measure which only passed the Second Stage about ten minutes ago, there was no chance of handing in amendments previously. Therefore, the point of time does not arise.

General Mulcahy

I should like further to point out that the relationship between this Bill and the Resolutions which have been passed already is quite analogous to the relationship between the Finance Bill and the Financial Resolutions that precede that Bill. To suggest that this Bill is incapable of amendment in an orderly way, is analogous to suggesting that the Finance Bill should be left untouched, and should simply consist of the Resolutions that were passed previous to the introduction of the Finance Bill.

Mr. MacEntee

I should like to stress what Deputy McGilligan has stated. He said that this Bill is founded on a series of Resolutions adopted, many of them, by this House to-day, and most of them within a very recent period.

Mr. McGilligan

I did not say that.

Mr. MacEntee

Founded on the Resolutions. I interpolated the meaning of what the Deputy said.

Mr. McGilligan

I said nothing like that.

Mr. MacEntee

The Deputy said that.

Mr. McGilligan

Oh, no.

Mr. MacEntee

Possibly the Deputy does not know what he said.

Mr. McGilligan

I do, better than the Minister.

Mr. MacEntee

That is the basis of the Bill. The House has already made up its mind and given its decision on the Bill. It must be obvious that on short notice the House cannot reverse the decision it has given.

Mr. McGilligan

Why not?

Mr. MacEntee

On short notice the House would not reverse its decision to-day, and therefore we have to consider what might be the meaning of these amendments. Accepting them would be a reversal. If the amendment was a serious one it would be another matter, but as it stands it is bound to end in a useless discussion. I submit, sir, that the amendment has been introduced for the purposes of obstruction, and should not be accepted.

Mr. Morrissey

Is this a Bill or is it not? If it is a Bill I urge that if the Committee Stage be taken without notice, the Deputies are entitled to submit their amendments without notice. I refer the Minister to Standing Order 85 and I ask him to read and digest it and, if possible, try to understand it.

An Ceann Comhairle

When the Committee Stage is taken on short notice, Deputies have a perfect right to submit amendments without notice. It has been stated that we cannot differentiate this Bill from other Bills. I disagree. Amendments have been moved to the first section. The first section is only the statutory form of what has been agreed to by this House within the last hour. I consider that the various amendments that have been now handed to me, to reduce certain sums in the Appropriation Grants in Schedule B, for instance, should, if seriously intended, have been moved when these Estimates were before the House.

General Mulcahy

Yes, if an opportunity was given us.

An Ceann Comhairle

To accept the amendment now would be to duplicate the whole proceedings of this House. I am not accepting the amendment.

Mr. Morrissey

May I ask, sir, with all respect, in view of the ruling which you have now given why you have accepted the Bill?

An Ceann Comhairle

I think it was in December, 1930, that the then Leas-Cheann Comhairle stated very emphatically that the Ceann Comhairle may not be asked to give reasons for his ruling and need not quote the Standing Orders.

Professor O'Sullivan

I understand your ruling, sir, as far as Section 1 is concerned, but I want to ask——

An Ceann Comhairle

I have said I have a copy of the amendments here and I am not accepting them.

Professor O'Sullivan

I want to ask, sir——

Mr. T. Kelly

The Chair has ruled.

Professor O'Sullivan

I think I am entitled to ask a question. What was precisely your ruling, sir?

An Ceann Comhairle

That I am not accepting any of them.

SECTION 1.

Question proposed: "That Section 1 stand part of the Bill."

General Mulcahy

This section provides that the Minister may issue £17,750,847 out of the Central Fund. The Minister for Agriculture in dealing with bounties and subsidies was very unsatisfactory in the statement he made to us as to how we were going to get this £2,500,000, and when you consider the position in which agriculture stands at present and the position in which industry is——

Mr. MacEntee

May I direct your attention to the Deputy's remark?

Mr. Morrissey

Is this a point of order?

Mr. MacEntee

It is dealing with a matter which the House has just decided. Accordingly I beg to move that the question be now put.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am accepting the motion.

Mr. Morrissey

The gag. The rights of minorities.

Mr. T. Crowley

Deputy Morrissey is not in the Chair now.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputies on both sides might remember that applies all round. Section 1 is in statutory form.

General Mulcahy

Can I make a representation to the Chair on the matter?

An Ceann Comhairle

I have said that I am accepting the motion and I will hear no further representations. The question before the House is that Section 1 stands part of the Bill and the motion has been accepted by me that the question be now put.

Question put: "That the Question be now put."

Tá, 48; Níl, 24.

Tá

Bartley, Gerald.Beegan, Patrick. Brady, Seán.Breathnach, Cormac.Breen, Daniel.Browne, William Frazer.Cooney, Eamonn.Corkery, Daniel.Crowley, Timothy.Daly, Denis.Derrig, Thomas.De Valera, Eamon.Gibbons, Seán.Goulding, John.Hales, Thomas.Hayes, Seán.Hogan, Patrick (Clare).Keely, Séamus P.Kehoe, Patrick.Kelly, James Patrick.Kelly, Thomas.Kennedy, Michael Joseph.Killilea, Mark.Kissane, Eamonn.

Blaney, Neal.Boland, Gerald. Little, Patrick John.Lynch, James B.MacEntee, Seán.Maguire, Ben.Maguire, Conor Alexander.Moore, Séamus.Moylan, Seán.O'Briain, Donnchadh.O'Doherty, Joseph.O'Grady, Seán.O'Kelly, Seán Thomas.O'Reilly, Matthew.Pattison, James P.Pearse, Margaret Mary.Ruttledge, Patrick Joseph.Ryan, James.Ryan, Martin.Ryan, Robert.Sheridan, Michael.Smith, Patrick.Traynor, Oscar.Walsh, Richard.

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.Belton, Patrick.Bennett, George Cecil.Bourke, Séamus.Brennan, Michael.Brodrick, Seán.Burke, Patrick.Costello, John Aloysius.Davitt, Robert Emmet.Dolan, James Nicholas.Doyle, Peadar S.Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.

Fitzgerald, Desmond.Lynch, Finian.McGilligan, Patrick.McGuire, James Ivan.McMenamin, Daniel.Minch, Sydney B.Morrissey, Daniel.Mulcahy, Richard.O'Connor, Batt.O'Leary, Daniel.O'Sullivan, Gearoid.O'Sullivan, John Marcus.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Motion declared carried.

Question put: "That Section 1 stand part of the Bill.

The Committee divided:—Tá: 50; Níl: 24.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Bourke, Séamus.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Minch, Sydney B.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearoid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.

Tellers: Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

SECTION 2.

General Mulcahy

On the section I want to say a few words. This section asks for power to borrow some £17,000,000. In the critical circumstances of the country and in the light of the amounts of money mentioned here, I feel it necessary to draw attention to the fact that the interest of the credit of this country and the interests of economy, as having some bearing on the price at which it may be possible to borrow money, make it most desirable that the statements that have been made in dealing with some of the Estimates here by the Minister should be amplified and that some statements that have not been made, by reason of the closure of some of the Estimates, and the omitting, therefore, of some of the Minister's speeches, ought to be made in however brief a form. The Minister for Agriculture, in dealing with the Estimate for bounties, under which £2,450,000 are being provided for the purpose of assisting, to a large extent, the agricultural community to export their agricultural surplus, was not able to tell us how exactly this money was to be got or how the country was to sustain in the years to come a payment of that magnitude annually. He has already made known to the public at large that, in his opinion, it will be necessary to sustain the agricultural interest in future, that is, year after year, by bounties, subsidies and tariffs, and it is known that our farmers had two-thirds of their normal market outside this country up to recently. The greater part of that two-thirds has been taken from them, and we are told that there is very little likelihood of being able to recover it in full. That two-thirds represents about £17,750,000. When considering that in relation to the amount of assistance being given to the export of agricultural produce, and the amount that agriculturists have dropped in their income during the twelve months, we find under the heading of live animals that their income has been reduced by £9,000,000, that in the first five months of this year the drop has continued, and that, as the Minister for Agriculture says, they may expect a drop of income in that way. The money that is being provided by way of bounty must come either from agricultural production or from industrial production. Therefore, we require some further encouraging statement, either from the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Industry and Commerce or the President, which will remove some of the doubts that have been created regarding industrial development, so that the investing public may have some assurance, that if agriculture is dwindling in its capacity to bear the burden of providing something that would go back to it in export bounties, there is some prospect of development taking place in industry, by bringing about a situation that those engaged in industry, other than agriculture, may have it in their power, as a result of their production, to help to raise this sum either in taxation or to support them by other means.

There are certain points to which the Minister should refer. Speaking in Kilkenny recently, the President indicated that there had not been as much industrial development as he expected, and he pointed out that there was a way, which had not been availed of, by which that development could be assisted. He stated that local bodies could do much to promote industrial development. I have endeavoured to find out from various Ministers, for the information of local authorities, what these bodies can do, so that such powers as they have will be exercised to the full to bring about that quickening in industrial development, that the statistics recently provided for show leave much to be desired. The Ministerial Party has stated that local bodies can be of assistance.

Mr. MacEntee

I am loath to interrupt the Deputy, but, on a point of order, I suggest that the only discussion which could be relevant to this discussion is whether the Minister should be permitted to issue the various resolutions or whether the amount should be raised by taxation by borrowing. That is the full scope of this section.

Professor O'Sullivan

I dare say the Deputy is in order in adducing reasons, as long as they are relevant, why the Minister should not be given the power entrusted in the section.

Mr. MacEntee

The Deputy has not yet related them to the section.

Professor O'Sullivan

I am addressing the Chair. I must protest that again and again when I make a point of order this particular Minister has interrupted.

Mr. MacEntee

May I put it that I made the point of order?

Professor O'Sullivan

I have to ask the Chair to keep the Minister in order. I know that it is extremely difficult. He is naturally disorderly. May I point out that Deputy Mulcahy is perfectly entitled to adduce the reasons he thinks fit, and, as long as they are relevant he cannot be ruled out of order. He is entitled to give reasons why the Minister should not be given the borrowing powers.

General Mulcahy

Without a certain further statement.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister has stated what the section means. The terms of reference are contained in the title to the section, and the Deputy is quite in order in adducing reasons why the powers of borrowing should not be given to the Minister. But the Deputy went on to discuss how local bodies might help Irish industries, which is pretty far away from the powers of the Minister, and he had not related or begun to relate that to the powers of borrowing.

General Mulcahy

I was not going to argue that the Minister should not get powers for borrowing but, that in giving him the powers the House should, at least, ask that an additional statement should be made, in view of matters that are at present reflected on the credit of the country and on its financial capacity to bear these borrowings. The making of a certain statement may create a position by which the Minister might be charged a rate higher than that at which the money might be borrowed if there was a greater assurance given the investing public that things were more satisfactory than discussions in the House suggested. I asked if the President would indicate the way in which local bodies could help to quicken industrial development here. I suggest that a statement would make that a little clearer, and would affect very favourably the position in the borrowing market. The President's organ also stated that even with the circumstances that exist, and which are creating great havoc to the agricultural industry, local bodies could do more to rescue the country from the attack made on it. If the President would state how local bodies could assist in this very important matter, and how borrowing could be more satisfactorily carried out, perhaps we would not have to bear big burdens in the shape of interest that might otherwise fall upon us. The House will admit that the circumstances in this country are critical, and that nothing should be left unsaid which would create confidence. I would like to urge that what is called the economic war is inflicting more hardship on this country than any of the wars we have spoken of. To some extent we passed unscathed through the great war. There were family losses and experiences that were poignant, but the country, as a whole, could not be said to have been economically affected very prejudicially by it. Large sums of money were earned by the agricultural community and even by the industrial community during that period. The economic improvement of the country created an atmosphere and nerved and strengthened our people, so that even during that period of war they energised themselves in such a way that we have to-day this Parliament directing the affairs of the Free State.

An Ceann Comhairle

Perhaps it is due to the prolonged session, but I am unable to relate the Deputy's argument to the matter before the House.

General Mulcahy

I submit that there there is at present a state of affairs that is crushing to our agricultural and industrial life. Some statements that the Minister might make with regard to local bodies would give the country heart that industrial development was proceeding. Not only do we see the agricultural position reduced by present circumstances, but the Minister for Agriculture says that this year £2,500,000 must be given towards its assistance and that that must continue. We see industries that have pretty well rooted themselves, as a result of favourable tariffing during the last eight or ten years, being reduced to a position in which not only has there not been a great increase in employment, as Ministerial statements led the country to believe there would be, but in which employment has been reduced in many cases.

The Attorney-General

I submit that the Deputy's argument is entirely irrelevant. This section merely enables the Minister to operate such a rate of interest as he shall think fit. The Deputy's arguments are all directed to the rate of interest. This section gives the Minister a discretion as to the rate of interest.

General Mulcahy

There is also involved in this section, from the point of view of the taxpayer, the rate of interest at which the Minister may be able to borrow. The arguments I am addressing to the House are intended to bring forward that point.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Attorney-General raised a point of order. It is obvious that the economic war and the state of certain industries owing to the tariffs of the last three years are not relevant to the section before the House.

Mr. Belton

Do you seriously suggest that the economic war and the state of the economic life of this country have nothing to do with the rate of interest at which a national loan may be floated?

Mr. MacEntee

I submit that the Deputy is questioning your ruling.

An Ceann Comhairle

No Deputy has the right to question the Chair as regards its rulings.

Mr. Belton

I submit that there is nothing more relevant to the section than the consideration of the rate of interest which might be chargeable on a national loan.

Mr. MacEntee

Order!

Professor O'Sullivan

Surely Deputy Belton can make a submission to the Chair.

Mr. MacEntee

This discussion has passed into the realms of irrelevancy. I move that the question be now put.

Mr. Belton

The new authority on agriculture moves the closure. He does not know what agriculture is.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Belton might give his colleague an opportunity of speaking.

Mr. Belton

I got no opportunity.

Professor O'Sullivan

On the motion for the closure, suppose there is no point whatever in the arguments the Deputy has advanced, that is no reason why the discussion should be closured. The House had no opportunity of discussing whether or not the Minister should get borrowing powers. The reasons given by you, a Chinn Comhairle, for ruling certain amendments out of order do not apply to the question whether or not we should have an opportunity of discussing this section. I suggest that a full opportunity should be given to the House to discuss this section. I have yet to learn that because, even in the opinion of the Chair, certain arguments are not made relevant to the section we are discussing, that is a reasonable ground for debarring the House from discussing the section.

Mr. MacEntee

May I point out that the Opposition has already had a very useful opportunity and the use of very valuable time to discuss this section and that the section has not been discussed with any relevancy so far?

Mr. Bennett

May I submit that even though you may rule that some portion of Deputy Mulcahy's argument is not applicable to this section, that is no ground for the Minister's moving the closure at this stage. There is still 12 hours of Parliamentary time to get through this Bill.

Mr. MacEntee

There are other Bills.

Mr. Bennett

Many of us, owing to the closure, have had no opportunity of addressing the House on this Bill or on some of the Estimates that preceded it. It is taking the House very short to rush a Bill of the importance of this Bill through the House by means of the closure. There is plenty of Parliamentary time available, and if Deputies are to be kept here to-day, they should be given an opportunity to discuss this Bill. There is sufficient time at the disposal of the House.

General Mulcahy

I completely accept your ruling, a Chinn Comhairle. If I am not near enough to the section from your point of view, a Chinn Comhairle, appreciating your position and the position of my colleagues, I should like to give way. In reply to the remarks of the Minister for Finance, two very important Estimates were closured and there was not sufficient time to discuss these things.

An Ceann Comhairle

I accept the motion.

Question put: "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided: Tá, 49; Níl, 26.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Burke, Patrick.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
Bourke, Séamus.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Minch, Sydney B.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearoid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

Question put: "That Section 2 stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided: Tá, 49; Níl, 24.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearoid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

Mr. MacEntee

As Section 3 is a mere machinery section, I beg to move:—

"That the Question be now put."

General Mulcahy

I desire to oppose the passing of this section. One of the amendments that I would have liked to have asked you to receive, sir, was an amendment dealing with Vote 56——

Mr. MacEntee

The question has been moved, a Chinn Comhairle.

General Mulcahy

——for the expenses of the office of the Minister for Industry and Commerce. The Minister will remember that I pointed out when dealing with that Minister's Estimate that the increase in the trade and commerce section was a very big one, approximating to £10,500.

Mr. MacEntee

I beg to draw your attention, a Chinn Comhairle, to the Deputy's remarks.

General Mulcahy

I submit, again, sir, the representation made to you by Deputy O'Sullivan that the Minister ought not to take upon himself the duties of the Chair. The Minister has deliberately endeavoured to escape from his own Ministerial responsibilities on several occasions to-night, and it would be much more helpful, I submit, to the conduct of the House if the Minister would stick to his own Ministerial responsibilities; try to discharge them more fully than he has done, and leave the Chair to itself.

As I was saying, I pointed out to the Minister on that Estimate that there was a very considerable increase in the amount allocated for salaries and wages in the trade and commerce section. Nothing which the Minister had to say of his own volition, and nothing which we could drag out of him by questions, went to explain all the money that he was making provision for under that Estimate.

Mr. MacEntee

Has not the House already decided that question on the Report Stage of those Resolutions?

General Mulcahy

I want to explain to you, sir, why I am opposing this section. I submit, sir, that we are in Committee. At any rate, I will go on with my explanation. Nothing that the Minister was able to tell us of his own volition or that we could drag out of him by question indicated that anything had been done which would warrant the expenditure of the additional moneys that he was providing for under this Estimate. The Minister promised us some time ago that he was making up a directory of Irish manufactures. The Minister explained the delay in not issuing that directory on the ground that the Vote had not yet been passed for it.

Mr. MacEntee

I do not see how this arises on this particular section and, accordingly, I beg to move that the question be now put.

An Ceann Comhairle

I accept that motion. The question is that Section 3 stand part of the Bill and a motion has been accepted that the question be now put.

Motion put: "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided: Tá, 48; Níl, 22.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Belton, Patrick.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearoid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and S. Brodrick.

Motion declared carried.

Main Question put.

The Committee divided: Tá, 47; Níl, 23.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Belton, Patrick.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
Minch, Sydney B.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearoid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and S. Brodrick.

Question declared carried.

SECTION 4.

Question proposed: " That Section 4 stand part of the Bill."

Mr. McGilligan

I should like to have some information as to what this particular declaration is which is required in certain cases before a grant can be received, who are the types of people before whom it is to be subscribed, and what it contains. Is this a hidden oath of allegiance? If so, what is the reason for having this offence which may be tried summarily and make a person liable to a fine of £30?

Mr. MacEntee

It is quite clear from the text. This is the usual statutory declaration made by a person who may receive payment in respect of superannuation or any other non-effective service. That means the person properly entitled to receive the payment. The declaration is made and the Paymaster-General or some other officer makes the payment.

Mr. McGilligan

I should like to get some better enumeration of the people who may get the grants and who are forbidden to receive such grants until a declaration of a particular kind has been made. What is the form prescribed by the warrant of the Minister, and who are the persons who will subscribe to such declaration? In the Schedule I find "For the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners, including certain other services administered by that office." I do not know if the Minister can inform us whether there is any person who has been in receipt of a grant such as has been referred to in Section 4, which we are discussing. There is a person called a distributor of stamps in the office of the Commissioners who gets paid a poundage. Is that a grant for the purpose of Section 4?

Mr. MacEntee

The Deputy is not in the police court.

Mr. McGilligan

I hope that is not a reference to the Attorney-General. Am I in order, sir, in discussing the Hogan trial on that reference of the

Minister to police courts? There is a point that would fall in any consideration as to how many times Attorneys-General have appeared in police courts.

An Ceann Comhairle

Surely not under Section 4?

Mr. McGilligan

It may have been some reference to when he was in the police courts himself.

Mr. MacEntee

I alluded merely to the Deputy's method of debate.

Mr. McGilligan

Of course I don't pretend to be the perfect little gentleman that the Minister is.

Mr. MacEntee

The Minister has not the pretensions of the Deputy.

Mr. McGilligan

I thought it was a reference to the Minister being in the police courts himself. One has only to mention Smithfield—I hope the Minister understands. But let us get back to whether it is a grant made in pursuance of the Act and whether this type of grant is to be prescribed by warrant of the Minister. I would like to ask what is the type of warrant which the Minister would prescribe and who are the people who tick the warrant before he gets paid poundage. I don't think there is much more in the Revenue Commissioners that would call for a grant of this type. Under Vote 7, the Old Age Pensions, there are people who are clearly here getting grants— pensions. I would like to know if it counts as a grant for the purpose of the section. I would like to know if the form of declaration used is the same in the variety of cases and if the Minister could tell us the type of warrant and tell us who are the people prescribed by the warrant. I may point out here the terrible injustice of imposing even on summary conviction a penalty not exceeding £30 on a person who is in receipt of an old age pension of a limited amount. Under Vote 11 I cannot see that there is anybody who might fall under this particular type of grant. Forty-one is for grants in aid of housing. The word "person" under the Interpretation

Act includes, of course, "any body or persons corporate or unincorporate," so that the word would include local authorities getting grants under the Act of 1919.

Mr. MacEntee

At the opening of the debate on this section, Deputy McGilligan made a statement to which I have given full and sufficient go-by. He persists in repeating the statement, possibly in greater detail, but with the same effect. I don't think there is any useful purpose in that, and I should like to move that the question be now put.

An Ceann Comhairle

I accept the motion.

Mr. McGilligan

I do not think you, sir, have heard what I said. I don't think you are taking the Minister's word as reporting anybody's speech.

Question put: "That the question be now put."

The Committee divided: Tá, 48; Níl, 24.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
Minch, Sydney B.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Sullivan, Gearoid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

Main Question put.

The Committee divided: Tá, 49; Níl, 24.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
Minch, Sydney B.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Sullivan, Gearoid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Tray nor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

SECTION 5.

General Mulcahy

On Section 5? In view of the way in which the discussions on the Estimates have been treated here, the way the Minister with the responsible powers of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, and the way the Minister with the responsibility of President——

Mr. MacEntee

On a point of order, the Deputy is addressing himself to the attitude taken by the Minister and other Ministers during the debate on the Bill.

Deputies

That is not a point of order.

Mr. MacEntee

The Short Title of the Bill reads: "This Act may be cited for all purposes as the Appropriation Act, 1933." It is quite obvious that the Deputy proposes to enter into an irrelevant discussion, and I beg to move that the Question be now put.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have accepted the motion that the Question be now put.

Mr. Byrne

Another closure. What are they afraid of?

Mr. Minch

The Minister talks of free speech, but we will get no free speech anywhere if we do not get it here.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are two Deputies who have been on their feet for some minutes. One of them is experienced enough to know that that is a gross violation of the rules of order.

Mr. Byrne

We ought to get a chance of discussing the Estimates if we desire to do so.

An Ceann Comhairle

The same Deputy ought to know that once the Ceann Comhairle has given a ruling no further discussion on the matter is allowed.

Mr. Byrne

We should be allowed to discuss the Estimates, and not be steamrolled in this way by the Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy does not obey the rules of order the Ceann Comhairle will have to take action.

Mr. Byrne

This is the freedom of debate we are allowed.

Question put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 44; Níl, 25.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
Minch, Sydney B.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Sullivan, Gearoid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

Question put: "That Section 5 stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Tá: 48; Níl: 26.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Bourke, Séamus.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
Minch, Sydney B.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Sullivan, Gearoid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Motion declared carried.

SCHEDULE A.

General Mulcahy

On Schedule A, sir, I desire to raise——

Mr. MacEntee

I beg to move that Schedule A stand part of the Bill, and I submit that as this is a Grant out of the Central Fund, the Question be now put.

General Mulcahy

I protest against the attitude of the Minister for Finance. Before he had the words of the motion out of his mouth he endeavours, through you, a Chinn Comhairle, to put his hand on the mouths of other Deputies in this House.

Mr. MacEntee

I have moved that the Question be now put.

General Mulcahy

You saw the state of disorder, a Chinn Comhairle, to which the Minister's action, when I endeavoured to discuss Section 5, brought this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am accepting the motion, and the Chair has a very definite opinion of the cause of that disorder.

Question put: "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Tá, 50; Níl, 26.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
Minch, Sydney B.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Motion declared carried.

Question put: "That Schedule A stand as Schedule A of the Bill."

The Committee divided: Tá, 50; Níl, 28.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Good, John.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Minch, Sydney B.
Morrissey, Daniel.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

SCHEDULE B.

Mr. G. O'Sullivan

On Schedule B, and before the Minister gets an opportunity of moving the closure, I want to ask a question—not to make a speech. This is really a very important question. We are in this particular measure appropriating a number of thousands of pounds under different Votes. They all refer to certain departments and in respect of each of these departments a Minister is in charge. There is a Minister's salary voted and the money is appropriated under this Bill. The President's salary is mentioned in the Vote as £1,500. Item two of that particular Vote says "Income tax say possibly £250." Having sat in this House for 26 hours I want to ask this question. Is there any reason why the President, the Minister for Finance, and the Executive Council generally could not publish their salaries as such, showing exactly what they are, because public money is being voted away and the public want to know——

Mr. MacEntee

There are no details in the Schedule and no sub-heads. I move that the question be now put.

Mr. O'Sullivan

I am speaking.

Mr. MacEntee

The Deputy is out of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

As to whether the Deputy is out of order is solely a matter for the Chair.

Professor O'Sullivan

I suggest to you, sir, to rule.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am accepting the motion that the question be now put.

Mr. O'Sullivan

I must say that the question has not been put. Are you going to put that from the Chair.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister for Finance moved that the question be put.

Mr. O'Sullivan

I asked a question. The Minister for Finance says that the details to which I referred are not in the Schedule to the Appropriation Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair stated that the motion had been accepted.

Mr. Byrne

I was standing before it was accepted.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am accepting the motion and I am putting it.

Mr. Byrne

I want to protest against the inadequate sum provided for employment and for distress— £500,000 for the whole country.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am accepting the motion that the question be now put.

Question put.

The Committee divided: Tá, 49; Níl. 28.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Bourke, Séamus.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Good, John.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Minch, Sydney B.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Motion declared carried.

Main Question put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 47; Níl, 24.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Good, John.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Minch, Sydney B.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

Question proposed: "That the Title be the Title of the Bill."

Mr. Costello

I wish to direct the attention of the House to a very serious and misleading defect in the Title of this Bill. The House will notice that the Title of the Bill is "An Act to apply certain sums out of the Central Fund ... and to appropriate the supplies granted in this session of the Oireachtas." That the Title is misleading is borne out by the fact that it misled the Minister for Finance himself on an earlier discussion of this Bill, because he pointed out incorrectly that this Bill only dealt with the application of certain sums out of the Central Fund and the appropriation of supplies. In fact, it deals with much more radical subject matter——

Mr. MacEntee

I move: "That the question be now put."

An Ceann Comhairle

I accept that motion.

Question put: "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided: Tá: 45, Níl, 26.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Good, John.
Lynch, Finian.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Minch, Sydney B.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

Question put: "That the Title to the Bill be as set out."

The Committee divided: Tá, 48; Níl, 28.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Bourke, Séamus.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Good, John.
Lynch, Finian.
MacDermott, Frank.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Minch, Sydney B.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

Bill reported without amendments.

An Ceann Comhairle

When will the Report Stage be taken?

Mr. MacEntee

We propose to take it now.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be received for Final Consideration."

General Mulcahy

I should like to protest—in view of the way in which discussion has been choked down both on this measure and on the Estimates —against the taking of the Report Stage now.

Mr. Minch

I think it is absolutely grossly unfair that the discussion should be steamrolled to this extent. We are not allowed to make a remark but the Minister is on his feet protesting against free speech.

Question put: "That the Bill be received for final consideration."

The Committee divided: Tá, 48; Níl, 27.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Bourke, Séamus.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Good, John.
Lynch, Finian.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Minch, Sydney B.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass" (Mr. MacEntee).

General Mulcahy

On the Fifth Stage, sir, item No. 56 of Schedule B, against which an amount of £175,286,000 stands, includes in that figure an amount of £33,215 in respect of the staff of the Trade and Industries branch. That figure is an increase of £10,500, giving additional employment to 32 persons engaged in the Trade and Industries branch of the Department of Industry and Commerce. Pivotal on and fundamental in all the discussions that we have attempted to initiate, and things that ought to be foremost in the minds of the Ministers who have addressed themselves to the presentation of Estimates before this House, ought to be the serious state of affairs in the country from the point of view of employment and unemployment to-day and the prospects that are before our people industrially and agriculturally. I have pointed out that the Minister for Agriculture to-day, also presenting to us a figure enshrined in these amounts of £2,450,000, asked for the vote of that amount so that by way of subsidy and by way of bounty he might pay it out to exporters of agricultural produce in order to help them to get rid of their agricultural produce and not leave the farmers in the position that they were getting too small a price for it.

The Attorney-General (Mr. Maguire)

On a point of order, I submit that this is irrelevant to this Bill. This is a Bill to provide moneys in connection with Estimates already passed.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is in order in discussing these services.

General Mulcahy

This is a Bill to provide money, and a very considerable amount of money, money over and above what the Minister for Finance thinks he is able to raise by taxation this year, in view of the taxable capacity of our people and their earning capacity at present, including large sums to be borrowed. This money is, however, to be taken from the people who derive a subsistence and any money they may have from agriculture and from industry.

Attorney-General

I submit this is not in order.

General Mulcahy

I am addressing myself now to setting the Minister's mind at rest that I am not travelling away from the subject matter of the Bill.

Mr. MacEntee

You are making it uneasy.

General Mulcahy

If Ministers would leave me alone I will be as brief and to the point as possible, because my object in intervening is not to tell them anything they do not know, but to ask them to give us information, and to give the people from whom they are raising these tremendous sums of money information about the position that will make them more hopeful and more ready to support the burden that this Bill puts upon them. If the Minister is not prepared to do that, then I want to tell the Minister what I think of the tactics pursued in this House for the last couple of days and during last night.

Mr. MacEntee

Is that in order on this Bill?

An Ceann Comhairle

Decidedly not. The Minister is quite in order in putting a point of order.

General Mulcahy

The Minister for Agriculture told us the condition in which agriculture was. We are dependent on industry as well as agriculture in order to get the taxation provided for in this Bill to carry on the services of the country.

Mr. MacEntee

I move: "That the question be now put."

An Ceann Comhairle

I accept that motion.

Question put: "That the Question be now put."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 48; Níl, 27.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Bourke, Séamus.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Good, John.
Lynch, Finian.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Minch, Sydney B.
Mulcahy, Richard.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá, Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Question declared carried.

Question put: "That the Bill do now pass."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 47; Níl, 28.

Tá

Níl

Alton, Ernest Henry.
Beckett, James Walter.
Belton, Patrick.
Bennett, George Cecil.
Bourke, Séamus.
Brennan, Michael.
Brodrick, Seán.
Burke, Patrick.
Byrne, Alfred.
McGilligan, Patrick.
McGuire, James Ivan.
McMenamin, Daniel.
Minch, Sydney B.
Mulcahy, Richard.
Costello, John Aloysius.
Davitt, Robert Emmet.
Dockrell, Henry Morgan.
Dolan, James Nicholas.
Doyle, Peadar S.
Esmonde, Osmond Grattan.
Fitzgerald, Desmond.
Good, John.
Lynch, Finian.
O'Connor, Batt.
O'Leary, Daniel.
O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
Rice, Vincent.

Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Traynor; Níl: Deputies Doyle and Bennett.

Motion declared carried.

Bill certified a Money Bill and ordered to be sent to the Seanad.

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