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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 Apr 1935

Vol. 55 No. 14

Estimates for Public Services. - Vote No. 45—Office of the Minister for Education—(Resumed).

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £108,119 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1936 chun Costaísí Oifig an Aire Oideachais, maraon le costas Riaracháin, Cigireachta, etc.
That a sum not exceeding £108,119 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1936, for the Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Education, including the cost of administration, inspection, etc. (Minister for Defence, Mr. Aiken).

Do rinne mé tagairt aréir do na buntáistí atá ag dul do sna hiomaidhtheoirí ón bhFíor-Ghaeltacht i gcóir scrúdúcháin ionadachta sna Coláistí Ullmhúcháin.

Tá de thoradh na bréag-ghala a cuireadh ar iomaidhtheoirí agus ar mhúinteoirí na Fíor-Ghaedhealtachta go bhfuil iomadú sásamhail tagtha ar uimhir na n-iomaidhtheoirí. Do chuaidh a líon sin i méid ó chéad duine (100) sa mbliain 1931 go trí chéad agus naoi nduine fichead (329) sa mbliain 1934. B'aoirde an caighdeán a ghnóthuigh iomaidhtheoirí ón bFíor-Ghaedhealtacht sa mbliain 1934 ná mar do ghnóthuigh siad aon bhliain roimhe sin. D'éirigh le 51 fán gcéad díobh i scrúdú na bliana sin cé nár éirigh ach le 42 fán gcéad díobh i scrúdú na bliana 1933. Cé gur léir go bhfuil feabhas ar na h-iomaidhtheoirí ó Fhíor-Ghaedhealtacht Chonnachta i mbliana seachas mar bhí i mblianta eile, níor éirigh an scrúdú chómh maith in aon chor leo agus d'éirigh le h-iomaidhtheoirí ó Fhíor-Ghaedhealtacht Thír Chonaill agus Chúige Mumhan.

Dubhairt mé uair eile gurb é Scrúdú na hArd-Teistiméireachta i Meán-Scoltacha an Scrúdú Ionadachta d'iomaidhtheoirí i gcómhair Oileamhna. Do réir na fiadhnaise atá ar fagháil cruthuightear gur ró-mhaith an toradh atá ar Scrúdú na hArd-Teistiméireachta i dteannta tástáil áirithe in urlabhra na Gaedhilge um an Cháise roimhe sin chun mic léighinn do thoghadh do na Coláistí Oileamhna. Cé go raibh laghdú beag éigin ar uimhir na bhfear a chuaidh fá scrúdú sa mbliain 1934 seachas blianta eile bhí breis agus 70 fán gcéad de mhéadú ar uimhir na mban. Dálta an scéil seo, cuimhnighthear gur leis an scrúdú seo, freisin, a tástáltar iomaidhtheoirí chun bheith ina Múinteoirí Conganta Neamh-Oilte (post is eadh é sin nach in-cheaptha dhó ach baill d'Uird Riaghalta, cainnteorí dúthchais Gaelhilge agus daoine a bhfuil céim Ollscoile aca) agus fós gur leis a tástáltar iomaidtheoirí chun bheith ina Máighistreása Conganta Sóiseara. Sin é an fáth go mbíonn oiread sin de bhan-iomaidhtheoirí ann. Is féidir meas do dhéanamh ar gnáthchaighdeán na bhfreagraí ó na marcanna a fuair an buachaill agus an cailín ba dheireannaighe ar an liosta de na hiomaidhtheoirí a ghnóthuigh ionad oileamhna ag scrúdú na bliana 1934; fuair an buachaill 81.6 fán gcéad agus an cailín 82.8 fán gcéad insna h-ádhbhair riachtanacha nach foláir do gach iomaidhtheoir pasáil ionnta, .i. Gaedhilg (Onóracha), Béarla, Stair, Tíreolaidheacht agus Matamaitice.

Do réir na dúnghaoise oifigeamhla agus le cabhair an Chláir speisialta nua a ceapadh don obair is tríd an Ghaedhilg is gnáthach an teagasc do dhéanamh anois ar feadh cúrsa an dá bhlian, agus tá an teanga ag dul i dtreise agus i bhfeidhm ó lá go lá ar shaoghal chuideachtamhail na gColáistí Insan mbliain 1932-33 ní raibh ag gabháil do'n chlár nua ach mic-léighinn den chéad bhliain; ach insan mbliain 1933-34, nuair bhí na daltaí sin insan dara bliain, bhí gach uile dhuine ag fagháil teagaisc fá'n gclár nua.

Tar éis an atharú a rinneadh in san mbliain 1934 ar Chóras an Scrúdú Oscailte Iomaidheachta, tá meánchúrsa iomlán curtha isteach ag gach duine, beagnach, dá bhfuil ar oileamhaint, agus dá bhrigh sin is féidir an clár nua do shaothrú gan bac ar thaoibh na h-ealadhna. Ní raibh an caighdeán léighinn i gcómhair ionadachta chómh hárd riamh agus atá anois, agus uime sin ba ghábha roinnt mhaith de chúrsa an dá bhlian do chaitheamh ag tabhairt tuille teagaisc do na mic léighinn. Maidir leis an oideachas féin, taobh amuigh den oileamhaint, is féidir anois leigint don mhac léighinn bior a mheabhrach do dhíriú ar an ádhbhar is fearr a bhfuil eolus aige air, agus ar an ádhbhar is lugha a bhfuil eolus aige air, i gcaoi agus go ndéanfadh sé speisialtacht den chéad ádhbhar agus go rachadh sé i bhfeabhas insan dara ádhbhar. Tá fairsingiú mór déanta ar an gcóras a bhí ann chun Cleachtú Múinteoireachta d'fhagháil. Tugann na mic léighinn atá i gcuid de na Coláistí cuairt anois ar Scoltacha Náisiúnta agus caitheann siad dhá thréimhse de thrí seachtainí gach bliain ionnta. Is mó an aimsir a caithtear anois insna Coláistí uilig le teoir agus le cleachtú na múinteoireachta ná mar féadfaí a dhéanamh fán sean-chlár.

Maidir leis an obair atá ar siubhal sna scoltacha sé baramhail na gcigirí go léir go múineann furmhór na n-ordí go foghanta agus go gcuirid spéis i n-oileamhaint na ndaltaí. Níl ach tuairim 5 fá'n chéad de'n lucht múinte nach n-éirigheann leo an réim "éifeachtach" ar a laghad a thuilleamh. Is fíor, ámhthach, go bhfuil a lán oidí ann nach ndéanann machtnamh mar ba chóir ar intinn agus ar tréithre na bpáistí agus ar an gcaoi ar cheart an t-eolas a chur i n-oiriúint dóibh. Ní leagann siad so scéimeanna bliantúla amach a bhfuil tábhacht agus machthnamh ionnta agus ní chaitheann siad morán dúthrachta ar na ceachta d'ullmhú o lá go lá. Agus tá mór-chuid oidí ann nach léigheann leabhra foghanta agus a leigeann do'n eolas a bhí aca i dtús a réime dul i ndísc. Tá na lochta so gan amhras ar uimhir de na lochta so gan amhras ar uimhir de na múinteóirí, ach is ionmholta an oileamhaint a bheir na hoidí i gcoitchinne don aos óg.

Téigheann roinnt mhaith oidí don Ghaedhealtacht gach bliain, agus ortha so bíonn daoine a bhfuil an teastas dá-theangach bainte amach cheana aca. Tá cuid mhaith de na hoidí gan aon cháilíocht san nGaedhilg aca fós, agus ce go bhfuil a líon sin ag dul i laghad, ní fhágann sin gur leor a bhfuil á dhéanamh ag cuid aca chun iad féin a chur i n-inmhe a ndualgaisí a chóimhlíonadh. Ó na figiúirí is léir go bhfuil teastas de shaghas eicínt ag níos mó ná trí cheathramha de na hoidí, agus go bhfuil suas leis an gceathramhadh cuid de luch múinte an tSaorsháit gan teastas ar bith, daoine atá leathchéad bliain nó os a chionn furmhór díobh so. Tá ceanntracha i gCúige Laighean 'na bhfuil a leath nach mór de na múinteoirí gan teastas ar bith.

Do réir tuarasgabháil na gCigirí tá múineadh na Gaedhilge ag dul chun cinn i bhfurmhór na scol. Múintear go réasúnta maith í mar ádhbhar scoile, agus tugtar aire mar is cóir don chomhrádh, don léightheóracht, don aithriseoracht agus don ghramadaigh, ach is beag scoil san nGalltacht gur féidir a rádh go bhfuiltear ag rádh go bhfuilte ag déanamh cainnteóirí de na daltaí. Deirtear gur fearr an obair atá á dhéanamh ins na bun-ranga ná ins na hárdranga i mBaile Atha Cliath agus i náiteanna eile; ach ar an dtaoibh eile de deir cuid de na Cigirí gur suarach an méad Gaedhilge a bhíos ag na páistí atá ag dul isteach san gcéad rang dóibh tar éis dá bhliain a chaitheamh i rang na naoíneán. I bhfo-scoil thall is i bhfus tá sár-obair á dhéanamh ag na hoidí agus is ceart moladh fá leith a thabhairt dóibh.

Deir Cigire:—

"Caithfear cuimhneamh gur thóg sé a lán ama ón mbliain 1922 anuas chun a chur 'na luighe ar oidí, ar bhainisteóirí agus ar thuismightheóirí nach gluaiseacht diombuan a bhí ag an Roinn á chur fé aithbheochaint na Gaedhilge tré's na scoltacha; féadfaidhe a rádh nach raibh ach tréimhse trialach d'oidí i ndeich mbliana de'n aimsir sin, nár thuigeadar a dheacracht is atá sé an teanga a mhúineadh agus nach go maith a thuigeadar a tábhacht i gcúrsaí náisiúntachta. Tá an ré sin imthighthe; tá na hoidí níos dícheallaighe i mbun na hoibre anois."

Sé an locht is mó atá ar mhúineadh na Gaedhilge nach leagann cuid mhór de na h-oidí scéimeanna iomlána comhráidh amach ar na neithe a bhaineas le saoghal na bpáistí, nach n-ullmhuigheann siad ceachta fóghanta ar na neithe seo agus nach dtugaid do na páistí na focla agus na leaganacha a bheadh uatha le cur síos ar na cluichí agus ar na bréagáin agus ar na neithe eile a mbíonn páistí ag trácht ortha ó mhaidin go hoidhche. Tá comhairle mhaith le fághail ag na hoidí ar gach a.mbaineann le múineadh teangan ins na "Nótaí do Mhúinteóirí," ach cé go n-abrann na cigirí go bhfuil siad so léighthe ag mór-chuid de na múinteóirí is léir nach bhfuil staidéar dian beacht déanta aca ortha.

Deir cuid de na cigirí go bhfuil feabhas mór tagaithe ar stáid na Gaedhilge i scoltacha na Breac-Ghaedhealtachta. Deir cigire agus é ag cur síos ar scoltacha na Gaedhealtachta:—

"Tá an rath ar an nGaedhilg i scoltacha na Gaedhealtachta, ach tá an Béarla ar brughadh isteach uirthi go láidir i dtighthe na ndaoine. Tá an-tóir ag na Gaedhilgeoirí ar Bhéarla, agus is ionann breith an Bhéarla agus bás na Gaedhilge. Ní fios fós cad é an toradh bhéas ar scéim nua na ndeontas. Tá muinighin ag cuid de na cigirí as scéim na ndeontas. Tá scríobhadh na Gaedhilge ag dul chun cinn sa nGaedhealtacht. Ní raibh mórán den rath ar an scríobhadh ann go dtí le déanaighe. Tá, agus feabhas ins an nGalltacht, ach ní féidir a rádh go scríobhtar an Ghaedhilg go maith ins an nGalltacht fós."

Dá ndéantaí mar atá curtha síos ag cigire áithrid san ngiota leanas is mór a rachadh sé i dtairbhe don chainnt agus don cheapadóireacht scríobhtha:—

"Is annamh a ghnidh an t-oide cnuasacht de fhocla, de chora cainnte, agus de leagnacha cainnte as an téacs-leabhar, agus is annamh a cuirtear d'fhiachaibh ar na daltaí úsáid a bhaint, i n-abairtí dá gcuid féin, as na focla, as na fo-ráidhte agus as na cora cainnte sin a castar leobhtha ins an léightheoracht."

Is dóigh leis na cigirí go bhfuil an oiread de theagasc tré Ghaedhilg á dhéanamh agus is féidir agus na constaicí atá 'na aghaidh a áireamh. Tá ag méadú ar an uimhir oidí atá ag tabhairt a bheag nó a mhór den teagasc tré Ghaedhilg. Tuigeann gach duine ciallmhar gur ceart dul go réidh agus go stuamdha leis an iarracht so. Is ró-bhaoghal gur dochar i náit maitheasa a dhéanfadh múinteoracht tré Ghaedhilg muna mbeadh cumas maith ar an dteangain ag na daltaí.

I dtreo gur feidhmeamhla d'fhéadhfadh na múinteoirí an clár d'oibriú rinneadh éadtromú air agus cuireadh amach clár nuadh i bhFoghmhar na bliana 1934. Rinneadh rogha-ádhbhar den Tuath-Eolaidheacht insna scoltachta uilig agus do laghduigheadh líon na scol 'na bhfuil Matamaitice 'na ádhbhar riachtanach. Rinneadh rogha-ádhbhar den Bhéarla sa chéad rang, rud a theastuigh ó na scoltacha uilig, agus d'éadtromuigheadh clár an Bhéarla insna ranganna uilig toisc go bhfuil ar na múinteoirí iarracht breise do dhéanamh leis an nGaedhilg d'aithbheochaint insna scoltacha.

Tá súil agam gur fearr an toradh a bhéas ar an obair de bharr an athruighthe sin agus go n-éireochaidh leis na múinteoirí an Ghaedhilg a chur a labhairt mar bheo-theangain i mease scoláirí na mBun-Scol.

Maidir le scrúdú teastais na mBun-Seol tá cathú orm a rádh gur annamh a ghnítear é insna scoltacha i geoitchinne. Ceapadh an scrúdú le h-aghaidh scoláirí an tsémhadh ranga agus na ranganna is aoirde ná é. Cruthú an teastas go mbíonn cúrsa iomlán na Bun-Scoile suas go dtí an sémhadh rang déanta ag na scoláirí agus eolas sásamhail aca air, agus bhíteas ag súil go bhféadfaidís feidhm a bhaint as dá mbeidís ag déanamh cúrsa meán-scoile, no cúrsaí teicneamhla no cúsaí ceárdamhla nó dá mbeidís á bhfostú ag fostuightheoir a d'iarrfadh a leithéid de chruthú orra.

Níor cuireadh isteach ach timcheall is fiche scoláire fán gcéad den méid a bhí ionscrúduighthe sa mbliain 1934 mar níor bhac furmhór mór na mBun-Scol coitchianta leis an scrúdú in aon chor. 61 fá'n gcéad de na scoláirí feiliúnacha a rinne an scrúdú ó scoltacha na mban riaghalta, 81 fá'n gcéad ó scoltacha na mbráthar agus 19 fá'n gcéad ó na Bun-Scoltacha eile. De bharr na bhfigiúirí sin na bliana 1934, agus ní haon eisceacht iad, tá an Roinn tar éis roinnt molta a bhreithniú leis an scrúdú féin a dhéanamh níos sásamhla agus le breis iarrthóirí a mhealladh chun é dhéanamh. Do pléidheadh an cheist ach ní féidir aon tsocrú cinnte d'fhoillsiú 'na thaobh fós. Is deacair a thuigsint idir dhá linn tuige nach gcuirfí a thuille scoláirí isteach chun iad a' ghríosadh agus chun sprid na hiomaidheachta do mhúscailt ionnta. Dá ndeintí an scrúdú i bhfurmhór na scol ba mhó ab fhiú an teastas féin, ach san gcaoi a bhfuil an scéal anois is deacair iarracht a dhéanamh chun teastas feidhmeamhail a dhéanamh de.

Ceapadh scéim na gcuirm ceoil scaitheamh ó shoin le caoi a thabhairt do leanbhaí na mBun-Scol ar cheol maith a chloisint agus ar aoibhneas a bhaint as. Do leanadh den scéim den dara seiseon agus thug Príomh-Bhuidhean Cheoil an Airm sraith cuirm ceoil do scoláirí Chathair Ath Cliath ón gceathramhadh rang suas. Le cead an Aire Cosanta a tugadh na cuirmeacha ceoil agus le lán-chongnamh an Cholonel Brase, Stiúrthóir Scoil Cheoil an Airm.

Tuigtear anois tar éis obair an dá sheiseon sin go raibh leanbhaí an Cheathramhadh Ranga ró-óg, b'fhéidir, chun tairbhe a bhaint as na cuirmeacha ceoil, ba dheacair dóibh grinn-éisteacht a dhéanamh ar feadh uair an chluig— faid gach cuirm cheoil—agus do leathanuigheadh an neamh-spéis uatha san go dtí na leanbhaí eile ar chuma éigin. Do socruigheadh mar sin, le haontú an Cholonel Brase, na cuirmeacha ceoil a thabhairt do na hárdranganna—ó Rang a 5 go Rang a 8. Ceithre cinn a tabharfar do leanbhaí gach scoile in áit na dtrí gcinn a tugtaí gach bhliain eile.

Do spreag an sompla san Bhaile Atha Cliath lucht ceoil Phort Lairge chun an chomaoin chéadna a chur ar a geathair féin. Tá sé cuirmeacha ceoil á dtabhairt i mbliana ag Cumann Cheolfhuireann Phort Lairge do leanbhaí Bun-Scol na Cathrach. Ní hamháin go bhfuil baill na foirne a dhéanamh in aisce ach tá siad ag tabhairt suas cuid den leath-lá saoire seachtaineamhail a bhíonn aca ar son na hoibre. Is inspéise an scéim é agus is maith an sompla é do chathracha eile insan Saorstát mar Chorcaigh agus Sligeach. Tá buidheachas na Roinne ag dul do Mr. Mercer, Uachtarán an Chumainn, fear a bhfuil baint aige leis ó n-a óige; do Mr. W. Murray, an treoruidhe, do bhaill an Choiste, agus go mór mhór do na ceoltóirí a thug suas a saoire féin ar son leanbhaí na cathrach.

Sara bhfágaidh mé an chainnt seo i dtaobh na mbun-scoltacha níor mhisde liom tagairt don gcaoi a bhfuil an Ghaedhilg sa nGaoltacht féin. Nuair do scrúdaigh mé an cheist sin cúpla bliain ó shoin ba léir d'aimhdheoin gach a ndearnadh ins na scoltacha agus tré bhíthin scéimeanna a cuireadh ar bun chun an Ghaedhilg d'ait-bheodhchaint agus í thabhairt thar n-ais mar theanga labhartha na tíre ath-uair, gur ag dul chun deiridh a bhí an Ghaedhilg san chuid is mó den Ghaedhealtacht agus san mBreac-Ghaedhealtacht ar fad. Tá nós an Bhearla do labhairt ag dul, nó dulta i bhfeidhm ar mhuinntir na gceanntar san agus, fairis sin, níor léir díobh so aon tairbhe fé leith ag baint le Gaedhilg seachasa mhalairt do labhairt. Níor bhfuláir mar sin a chur i dtuigsint dos na daoinibh sin ag a bhfuil an Ghaedhilg acu ó dhuthchas, gur leas dóibh í do labhairt agus í bheith mar ghnáth-urlabhra acu 'na dtighthibh, agus chun na críche sin do chinn an tAire Oideachais ar an scéim seo do chur ar bun .i. deontas £2 do bhronnadh ar thuismightheóirí (nó ar chaomhnóirí) atá 'na gcomhnaidhe sa nGaedhealtacht nó sa mBreac-Ghaedhealtacht as ucht gach páiste leo, idir 6 bliana agus 14 bliana d'aois atá ag dul ar scoil sa nGaedhealtacht nó sa mBreac-Ghaedhealtacht, agus gur dearbh don Roinn an Ghaedhilg a bheith mar theanga theinteáin an pháiste agus í bheith go pras líomtha aige dá réir. Tá sé riachtanach, freisin, mar choingheall chun an deontas do thuilleamh freastal féilteamhail agus dul ar aghaidh maith a bheith déanta ag an bpáiste ar scoil i gcaitheamh na scoil-bhliadhna.

Ní féidir éifeacht agus tairbhe na scéime seo do mheas go cruinn go fóill agus a thairbhe do mheádh mar mheadhon chun an Ghaedhilg do tharrtháil agus í chur faoi mheas ins na ceanntair 'na bhfuil sí mar oighreacht ag na daoine, ach braithtear ós na tuairiscí atá fachta ag an Roinn go bhfuil fonn ar roinnt mhaith daoine ins an nGaedhealtacht agus san mBreac-Ghaedhealtacht go raibh an Ghaedhilg á ceilt acu ar a gcloinn go dtí so, casadh uirri anois de bhárr na scéime seo, agus í do thaithighe mar ghnáth-urlabhra an teinteáin, agus is inasta, mar sin, go mbeidh níos mó líontighe agus páistí i dteideal an deontas d'fhághail ins na bliadhanta seo chugainn.

Maidir leis an Meán-Oideachas, is áthas liom é bheith le rádh agam go bhfuiltear ag leanamhaint den dul ar aghaidh agus den leathnú a luaidh mé anuraidh nuair bhí Meastacháin na bliana sin dá gcur agam os bhúr gcomhair. Bhí 32,384 mac léighinn ar tinnreamh ins na Meán-Scoltacha sa mbliain 1933-34, agus ba bhreis é sin de 1,418 ar an uimhir a bhí ann an bhliadhain roimhe sin. Tá 314 scoil ann anois, agus sin trí cinn de bhreis ar an mbliain roimhe sin.

Tá riocht na Gaedhilge agus an fheidhm a baintear aisti i gcómhair teagaise sna scoltacha sin ag dul i bhfeabhas fós. Chuaidh uimhir na scol i Roinn A (gurb í an Ghaedhilg a ngnáth-theanga) i méid ó 47 sa mbliain 1932-33 go 61 sa mbliain 1933-34; agus do chuaidh an uimhir i Roinn 5 (ina ndéantar cuid den teagasc tré Ghaedhilg) i méid ó 78 go 101. Go dtí le déidheannaighe níor glacadh leis an nGaedhilg mar ádhbhar múinte chómh héascaidh i Scoltacha na mBuachaillí agus do rinneadh i Scoltacha na gCailíní. Is cúrsaí áthais liom go bhfuil feabhas ar an scéal anois, bhí 19 cinn de Scoltacha na mBuachaillí i Roinn A sa mbliain 1933-34, agus sin 8 gcinn de bhreis ar an mbliain roimhe sin.

I gcaoi agus go meisneochthaí scoláirí chun an Ghaedhilg d'úsáid i ngnáth-saoghal na Scol—le linn caitheamh aimsire, léighteoireacht 7 rl., chómh maith le gnáth-obair na scoile— do tairgeadh dhá Scéith anuraidh do Scoltacha Buachaillí agus do Scoltacha cailíní, ar leith, chun iomaidheacht do dhéanamh dhóibh. Bhí toradh anshásamhail ar an scéim sin; bhí caighdeán na Gaedhile cómh hárd sin i gcuid de na scoltacha go mba dheacair lucht buaidhte na duaise do thoghadh. Tá creideamhaint mhór tuillte ag na scoltacha sin mar gheall ar an obair atá á dhéanamh acu chun an dúthaigh do Ghaedhealú, agus ní miste a rádh dá mbeadh leath oiread oibre á dhéanamh ar son an chuspóra chéadna taobh amuigh de na scoltacha nár chall do dhaoine bheith á suathadh féin mar gheall ar staid na Gaedhilge ins an am atá le theacht.

Ag trácht dom anuraidh ar na Méan-Scoltacha do thagair mé don obair theinteáin, agus dúbhairt me go raibh bearthuighthe againn ar iarracht do dhéanamh ar chúrsaí an ghearáin do leigheas, go raibh an iomarca den obair theinteáin le déanamh, agus go gcuirfí an obair á déanamh i módh a bheadh níos tairbhighe i gcúrsaí oideachais. Nílim cinnte gur éirigh an iarracht go ró-mhaith linn, ach tá tuairim na Roinne ar fagháil do chách anois, agus ceapaim má ghníonn tuismightheoiri na mac léighinn agus bainisteoirí agus múinteoirí cómhar le n-a chéile nach fada go mbeidh gach fáth gearáin imthigthe.

Tá an obair atá ar siubhal ag an Roinn ag soláthrú leabhar do mhic léighinn na Meán-Scol agus na nIar-Bhun-Scol eile ag dul ar aghaidh go maith. Tá dhá chéad go leith de na leabhra sin foillsighthe ag brainnse an fhoillsiúcháin anois, agus ortha sin tá cúig cinn de leabhra téarmaidheachta.

Cuireadh Coimisiún ar bun anuraidh chun infhiuchadh do dhéanamh ar an gcóras atá ann do Scoltacha Ceartúghcháin agus do Scoltacha Saothair, maille leis na dlighthe reachtamhla agus leis na riaghalacha a bhaineas le Ceartlanna, le Scoltacha Saothair agus le Tighthe Braighdeanais; agus fós chun fiosrú do dhéanamh i dtaobh neithe bhaineas le cúram agus oileamhaint na leanbhaí, leis na foirne, le córacha íoctha costaisí na bhforas, agus leis an réir a tugtar ar leanbhaí a bhíonn a gcoimeád i gCeartlanna agus i Scoltacha Saothair nuair gheibhtear amach go mbíonn máchail cholna nó laige mheabhrach ortha.

Tháinig an Coimisiún le chéile den chéad uair an seachtmhadh lá de Bhealtaine, 1934, agus cheithre huaire déag eile ó shoin i leith. Do cuireadh ceithre fínéidhthe fichead fá cheisteachán, agus tugadh cuairt ar bhreis agus triocha Scoil Ceartúghcháin agus Saothair, agus ar an dTigh Braighdeanais i mBaile Bocht, agus ar roinnt éigin foras ina bhfuil leanbh ar a bhfuil máchail cholna nó laige mheabhrach. Meastar go gcuirfear deire leis an bhfiadhnaise go luath anois, ach ní fhéidir a rádh go cinnte cia an t-am a bheidh an tuarascabháil ar faghail ó'n gCoimísiún.

Sa séasúr 1934-'35 do lean Coistí an Ghairm-oideachais den deagh-obair a bhí siad a dhéanamh ar son Oideachais leanúnaigh agus Cheárdoideachais. Fostuigheadh tuilleadh oidí, foscluigheadh scoltacha i gceanntracha nua agus rinneadh socrú le feabhas a chur ar an slighe a bhí ann do na daltaí agus ar na fearaistí a bhí ar fáil dóibh. Ní rabhthas ach ag treabhadh an bhranair go fóill agus bhí deacrachtaí a bhain le airgead agus le cóiriú de shíor le réidhteach ag na daoine a raibh cúram na hoibre ortha. Thug na coistí faoi fhaidhbeanna an airgid a scaoileadh gan staonadh agus ó thaobh na hoibre dhe, chuidigh a gcuid fuireann leo go dílis taobh istigh agus taobh amuich de na scoltacha. Tá a shliocht ortha indiu idir Coistí agus fuirinn—tá an Gairm-oideachas bunuighthe go maith sa tír seo anois. Tugtar faoi deara freisin gur do na ceanntracha féin is mó atá an buidheachas a' ghabháil, óir is ins na ceanntracha faoi leith agus ní i bpríomh-áit a cuireadh na scéimeanna i gcrích, ná níor ceapadh an caighdeán céadna do na ceanntracha go léir. Tugadh le tuiscint an t-am go léir dóibh siúd a bhfuil cúram na scol seo ortha gur b'amhlaidh a b'fhearr leis an Roinn dá dtugadh na Coistí tosach áite do na rudaí a theastuigh ó'n a gcuid mac léighinn féin agus, le linn dóibh bheith ag socrú ceisteanna a bhain le hamchláir, agus mar sin, le faid na gcúrsaí, le táillí, le scrúduighthe, leis na ceachtanna a dhéanfaidís sa mbaile, etc. nach ndéanfaoi dearmad ar na rudaí a bhí ag teastáil ó na mic-léighinn ná ar ar bhain leis an gceanntar. Is í an tsaoirse seo agus an tsuim phearsanta a mhúsclann sí bun-chloch an Ghairm-oideachais agus is ar dhaingne na cloiche sin atá an scéim ag brath. Ní dearnadh aon atharú go mb'fhiú trácht air ar an gcórus iomlán a bhain le Cúrsaí leanúnacha. Tá sé fáighte amach, le himeacht aimsire, gur cineál maith é an cineál oideachais a tugtar in sna bailte móra a bhfuil scoltachta ar bun ionta le roint bhlian, agus níl baile aca nach raibh oiread daltaí ar an rolla agus a raibh de shlighe sa scoil dóibh agus sin gan aon stocaireacht a dhéanamh. Tá scoltacha nua á dtógáilt nó sean-chinn a méadú nó táthar ag smaoineadh ar sin a dhéanamh i nDroichead Atha, i nDún Dealgan, i bPortláirge, i Luimneach agus i gCorcaigh. Tá cáil chomh mór sin ar scoltacha Bhaile Atha Cliath cheana go raibh na ranganna lae lán aca taobh istigh de choicís. In sna bailte beaga faoi'n tuaith bhí suim chothrom daltaí lae ar na rollaí de ghnáth. I n-áiteacha áithride—go mór-mhór i gContae Chorcaighe, i gContae Mhuigheo agus i gContae Shligigh—bhí oiread daltaí ag iarraidh freastal ar na scoltacha nua a rinneadh, nach rabhthas cinnte go mbeadh na scoltacha sin sáthach mór do na ceanntracha sin.

Tháinic leathnú ar Chúrsaí leanúnacha faoi'n tuaith chomh maith. D'eirigh chomh maith leis na scoltacha nua a foscluigheadh agus cruthuigh na sean-chinn go mb'fhiú iad a choinneál ar oscailt tamall eile, agus ní h-é sin amháin, ach go mb'fhiú fairsinge a leigean ar chuid aca.

Ins na scoltacha beaga tuaithe nár bh'fhéidir toisc easba slighe nó easba oidí ach aicme amháin daltaí a theagasc i gceart, tosuigheadh ar chúrsaí maithe arís do chailíní agus do bhuachaillí— cúrsaí a raibh baint aca le tíoghbhas agus le ceárdaíocht, faoi seach. Nuair a bhíodh na cúrsaí seo ar siubhal, agus dá n-éirigheadh go maith leo ar feadh cúpla séasúr, fritheadh amach go rabhthas tar éis riar ar na cailíní no na buachaillí go léir sa gceanntar sin agus go mba mhaith an rud é an t-oide a aistriú go dtí scoil nua go ceann cúpla séasúr sul a dtugtaoi an cúrsa sin arís. Tá ceaptha ag Coistí áithride socrú dhéanamh i gcóir ceanntracha den tsórt sin agus scoltacha beaga go dhá sheomra a thógáilt agus cúrsaí a bheith acu gach 're bliain do chailíní agus do bhuachaillí.

Táthar sásta le tinnreamh na ndaltaí ar 'chuile chineál cúrsa Gairm-oideachais, agus leis an dul 'un cinn atá na daltaí a dhéanamh. Bíonn na dáltaí ag freastal ar na cúrsaí anois nuair a bhíonn siad 14 bliana d'aois agus ní fhágann siad siar é go mbeidh siad 15 bliana nó 16 bliana mar ghnídís roimhe seo. Tagann de seo go mbíonn níos mó fonn ortha fanacht go mbídh an dá bhliain go léir curtha isteach aca agus gur fearr an oiliúint a bhíos ortha ag tosuighe ar an ngairm beatha atá fútha a leanacht. Go deimhin, tá uimhir réasúnta mór de na daltaí a rinne cúrsaí leanúnacha speisialta ag fáil oibre de bhárr an teagaisc a bhí fáighte aca.

Cuireadh tréimhsí i gcóir staidéir ar chláir na Scol leanúnach agus chuidigh sin go mór le héifeacht agus le feilteacht na gcúrsa. Ní cuirtear níos mó ná dhá thréimhse den chineál seo ar chúrsa ar bith agus bíonn cead ag na daltaí staidéar a dhéanamh faoi stiúradh, ar aon cheann de na hábhair scoile is maith leo ar feadh na dtréimhse sin.

Tugann an t-oide atá i mbun na ranga le linn an tréimhse, congnamh do na daltaí asta féin, agus cuireann sé comhairle ortha ach ní bhíonn crut na múinteoireachta ar an méid a dhéanann sé. Cuidigheann an nós seo go mór le suim na ndalta a mhúscailt le tabhairt fá rudaí as a stuaim féin, agus le fonn staidéir a chur ortha, agus ina theannta sin go léir cuidigheann sé leo smacht a chur ortha féin.

Ó glacadh leis na Scoltacha Leanúnacha Lae go seasta i saoghal na ndaoine i gceanntracha áithride, tá a shliocht sin ar na daltaí féin, mar is iomdha caoi a bhfuil an chomrádaíocht agus an caidreamh atá ag fás eadtora dá bharr le feiceál. Tá seo le feiceál go mór mhór i gcás cluichí cé go bhfuil bealaigh eile a bhfuil sé le feiceál freisin, i.e., cuireadh cumainn díospóireachta ar bun, foillsigheadh irisleabhra, tugadh cuírmeacha ceoil agus léirigheadh drámaí.

Is mór ar fad an congnamh an cineál seo comhair agus cáirdeasa le sprid na scoile a neartú agus le comrádaíocht agus freagaracht a mhúineadh do na daltaí, agus tá súil go dtreorochaidh agus go ngríosóchaidh lucht ceannais na scol na daltaí i ngach baile.

D'éirígh do maith leis an gCeard-oideachas agus leis na hiarrachtaí a rinneadh le ceangal do dhéanamh idir Ceárd-scoltacha agus Tionnscail Áitiúla. Níl oiread atharú ag baint leis an gCeard-oideachas agus atá le hOideachas leanúnach maidir leis an gceangal seo atá le déanamh idir na scoltacha agus na Tionnscail, agus sé'n fáth atá leis seo, toisc an deifríocht mhór atá idir na rudaí bhíos ag teastáil ó na tionnscail iomdha. Dá bhrígh sin, ní féidir cuntas cruinn generálta a thabhairt faoi'n rud a thárla.

Tá Coistí an Ghairm-oideachais gnóthach ag oiliúint príntíseacha i gcóir na dTionnscal seo: Tionnscal an tSiúicre, Tionnscal na hAilimíne, Tionnscal na Góiséarachta, Tionnscal na hOlna, Tionnscal na hEadachóireachta, Tionnscal na Gúnadóireachta, Tionnscal Déanta Léine, Tionnscal Déanta na mBróg, Tionnscal Déanta na mBréagán, Tionnscal Déanta an Troscáin, Tionnscal na Criadhadóireachta, Tionnscal na Clódóireachta agus Tionnscal na Foirigníochta. Táthar ag ciliúint Chef, Eadachóir, Grósaer, 7rl., freisin. Teasbáineann sé sin an chaoi a bhfuil Coistí an Ghairm-Oideachais agus lucht na dTionnscal ag obair as láimh a chéile.

Máidir le fóghainteacht an Teagaisc, tá áthas orm é bheith le rádh agam go bhfuil tuilleadh feabhais tagtha air ins na Scoltacha leanúnacha agus ins na Scoltacha Gairm-Oideachais.

In sna séasúir a ghaibh tharainn, nuair a bhíothas ag pléidhe le Oideachas leanúnach lae lán-aimsire i dtosach, is fíor nách raibh an chuid is mó de na hoidí seasta ach ag iarraidh na deacrachtaí a bhain leis an gcineál sin oideachais nua a réidhteach do réir a chéile.

Phléidh na Cigirí na ceisteanna leis na Príomh-oidí, bhí comhdála bliantúla de na fóirne ann, cuireadh amach nótaí cinnte maidir le Béarla, abhair léighinn, le Matamaitic simplí, le Tíreolas, le Cuntasaíocht Feilme, agus anois tar éis an taithighe agus an t-eolas atá faighte, le himeacht aimsire, tá toradh foghainteach ag teacht ar an obair. 'Sé tuairim ghenerálta na gCigirí go bhfuil feabhas tagtha ar an teagasc an séasúr seo. Seo an rud adeireann duine de na Cigirí: "Bhí an teagasc i dtoll a chéile níos fearr an séasúir seo ó thaobh abhar iolardha na gCúrsa agus bhí sé níos éifeachtúla in sna ranganna faoi leith." Dubhairt Cigire eile: "Go raibh an caighdeán a bhain le héifeacht an teagaisc, go generálta, go hárd agus gur chruthuigh an chuid is mó de na hoidí go maith agus gur thug siad faoi n-a gcuid deacrachtaí a reidhteach go dúthrachtach.

Ba léir an bhreis éifeachta seo i gcás na n-ábhar bhfeidhmiúla in sna ranganna lae agus ins na ranganna trathnóna. Chuadhthas 'un cinn go maith leis an obair a rinneadh in adhmad agus i Miotal. Bhí roinnt níos fearr déanta ar na cúrsaí agus leanadh de na hiarrachtaí a ghnithí le ceacht anna a cheapadh a gcuirfidh an dalta suim phearsanta ionnta. Cuireadh feabhas ar chóiriú generálta na saotharlann maidir le huirlísí, ádhbhair agus fearaistí.

Tugadh teagasc i dTíoghbhas i gcuid mhaith de na Ceárdscoltacha nua; bhí caoi níos fearr leis an ábhar sin a theagasc agus bhí an toradh dá réir. "Sé tuairim na n-oide go léir," adeir duine de na Cigirí, "go bhfuil an obair a déantar in sna Scoltacha Leanúnacha Lae níos suimiúla, agus gur móide go mbeidh toradh níos seasta uirthe ná bhíodh ar an obair a ghnithí roimhe seo in sna ranganna trathnóna. Rud eile is as an tuaith a thagas cuid mhaith daltaí, agus dá bhrigh sin caithfidh sé gur fearrde a saoghal sa mbaile an oiliuint a gheibheann siad." Is mar seo a bhíonn an scéal go mór-mhór nuair is lán-chúrsa tíoghbhais a ghnítear. Bhí éileamh maith ar ranganna trathnóna do dhaoine fásta an séasúr seo, freisin, agus bhí an teagasc go han-éifeachtach.

Tá rud suimiúil amháin ar mhaith liom tagairt faoi leith a dhéanamh do, sé sin, an méadú mór a tháinic ar an uimhir Scoil Ghairm-oideachais a bhfuil corp-oiliúint á theagasc ionnta. Tháinic feabhas ar éifeacht an teagaisc agus rinneadh atharú ar na ceachtaí a cleachtuightí, agus is comharthaí maithe iad sin ar an maitheas a tháinic as na Cúrsaí Samhraidh a bhí ann sa mbliain 1935 agus sa mblian 1934.

Déanann na Cigirí tagairt go generálta do fheabhas na sláinte agus do ghéire intinné i gcoitchinne na ndaoine atá ag fáil an teagaisc seo. "Tá an feabhsú atá tagtha ar smacht le tabhairt faoi deara chomh maith," arsa duine de na Cigirí. "Tuigeann na micléighinn," adeir sé, "a hoiltear ar an mbealach seo, go gcaithfear na daltaí a choinneál faoi smacht agus ní cheapann siad feasta gur le pionós a chur ortha atá na Riaghalacha annsin."

Rud eile gur fiú a thabhairt faoi deara: an chaoi a bhfuil beartuighthe na scrúduighthe a atharú le go mbeadh siad ag freagairt níos fearr do riachtanaisí an Oideachais agus iad a roinnt mar leanas: Bun-scrúdú, Meadhonscrúdú agus Ard-scrúdú.

Táthar ag súil gur leithne de an scéim an t-atharú seo a dhéanamh ar na scrúduighthe, agus go mbeidh siad níos feiliúnaighe don rud a bhéas ag teastáil ó na cineálacha mac léighinn faoi leith.

Maidir le hoiliúint oidí, rinneadh seo in sna Cúrsaí Samhraidh. Seo iad na habhair a bhí ar an gclár:

(1) Líníocht inill agus Cleachtadh Saotharlainn Mhiotail.

(2) Déanamh foirigintí agus líníocht, agus.

(3) Corp-oiliúint.

Ní hé amháin go bhfuil obair anmhaith déanta ag Scoil Chill Mochuda maidir le Tigheas. Tá obair mhaith déanta aice maidir le Gaedhilge, freisin; agus is beag de na mic léighinn a fhaghas Barántas innte nach bhfuil i ndon teagasc do dhéanamh tré Ghaedhilge agus tré Bhéarla. Agus tá obair na Gaedhilge dhá mhéadughadh innte ó bhlaidhain go bhliadhain.

Maidir le tréineáil cailín le h-aghaidh seirbhís tighe tá céim mhór chun tosaigh tugtha ag Scoil Bhaintighis Chill Airne. Leagadh amach cúrsa fá leith teagaisc annsin d'aon aidhm chun é do bheith oireamhnach do chailíní as an nGaedhealtacht.

I dtaoibh staid na Gaedhilge i gcúrsaí Oideachais Ghairme Beatha i gcoitchinne, is áthas liom bheith i ndon a rádh go bhfuil dul chun cinn réasúnta dhá dhéanamh. Múinteoirí Gaedhilge a bhíos ag teagasc faoi na scéimeanna seo, bíonn ortha teagasc do thabhairt do dhaoine óga a bhfuil eolas maith ar Ghaedhilge aca cheana, agus do dhaoine fásta agus do mhúinteoirí ar mian leo eolas níos leithne agus níos cruinne ar an teanga d'fhágháil. Le n-a chois sin, is éigean dóibh bheith i ndon eólas fá leith do thabhairt uatha fá obair na Gaedhilge taobh istigh de'n scoil agus taobh amuigh; agus ní mór dóibh a bhfuil ina gcumas do dhéanamh chun an Ghaedhilge do chur chun cinn i gcomhursanacht na scoile, maidir le n-a labhairt agus le n-a léigheamh agus le n-a scríobhadh. Mar sin de, is riachtanach dóibh sár-cháilidheachta do bheith aca. Fá láthair, is éigean do gach múinteoir díobh sin Céim Ollscoile le h-Onóracha, agus Gaedhilge mar príomh-adhbhar do bheith aige; agus ina theannta sin, is éigean dó cruthamhnas do bheith aige go dtig leis an Ghaedhilge a labhairt go maith—sin nó Teastas Roinn an Oideachais do ghnóthughadh .i. Teastas Múinteora Gaedhilge. Sa bhliadhain 1932 a chuir An Roinn an sgrúdú le h-aghaidh an teastais seo ar bun. Cuireadh ar bun é chun go mbéadh caoi ag múinteóirí gan láncháilidheachtaí sa Ghaedhilg teastas ughdarásach d'fhagháil.

Tá an Roinn ghá thabhairt dá n-aire go mbéifear i ndon dul ar aghaidh i gceart ag cur na Gaedhilge i n-úsáid chun adhbhair eile do theagasc. Roimhe seo ní raibh cáilidheachta Gaedhilge ach ag fír-bheagán múinteoirí ceárd-oideachais.

Fiú amháin daoine a raibh céimeanna Ollscoile i dTráchtáil aca agus a raibh Gaedhilge aca mar Fho-adhbhar, ní raibh oiread de eólas aca uirthe agus go mbéidís i ndon teagasc do thabhairt uatha tré Ghaedhilge. Ar dtús do mhol an Roinn do na Coistí Oideachais Ghairme Beatha a leithéidí seo de mhúinteoirí do chur chuig na Cúrsaí Samhraidh san nGaedhealtacht agus congnamh do thabhairt dóibh mar tugadh do mhúinteoirí Gaedhilge cheana, maidir le costas bóthar agus aoidheachta do thabhairt dóibh.

Chun caighdéan deimhin do chur ar bun, agus chun triail dheimhin ar eólas na múinteoir do chur ar bun, do socruigheadh, i mbliadhain a 1932, go mbeadh scrúdughadh fá leith faoi'n Stát ann .i. Scrúdughadh an CheáirdTeastais Ghaedhilge; agus an té gheobhadh an teastas sin, bheadh ughdarás aige teagasc do thabhairt tré Ghaedhilge i n-aon adhbhar ina raibh ughdarás aige é do theagasc, cheana.

Chuir an Roinn ar bun an cúrsa fá leith tréineála i gCeárd-Scoil Phort Láirge chun Múinteoirí i n-obair Adhmaid a's Miotail do chur ar fagháil do'n Ghaedhealtacht. Cainnteoirí dúthchais Gaedhilge an dá dhuine dhéag ar glacadh leó le h-aghaidh an chúrsa seo. Ghnóthuigh siad go léir cáilidheachta múinteóra ag deireadh an chúrsa agus tá siad ag teagase Obair Adhmaid a's Miotail tré Ghaedhilge sa nGaedhealtacht fá láthair.

O bhí an chéad lá de Mheadhon Fhoghmhair, 1934, ann, tá an riaghail seo leanas i bhfeidhm maidir le múinteoirí Tráchtála, no Eolaíochta, no Tighis, no Ealadhan: chun buanphostaí mar mhúinteoirí d'fhagháil, caithfidh siad cruthúnas do thabhairt uatha go bhfuil siad i ndon Gaedhilge do labhairt.

Ina thaobh sin, is mian leis an Roinn gurb ionann caighdeán do'n triail seo i labhairt na Gaedhilge agus do'n triail atá ann le h-aghaidh an Cheárd-Teastais Ghaedhilge. Le n-a chois sin, tá an t-órdughadh seo leanas tugtha do na Coistí Oideachais Ghairme Beatha: le linn bheith ag fógradh postaí nach bhfuil Gaedhilge "éigeantach" le n-a n-aghaidh go gcaithfidh sé bheith de choinghill ann go dtabharfar an posta do'n té is féarr a bhfuil cáilidheachta aige agus eólas feidhmeamhail ar Ghaedhilge.

Dubhairt a lán Coistí gur mhaith leó an t-órdughadh sin do bheith ann; agus tá sin ar cheann de na neithe ba siocair le tuilleadh mór daoine do bheith ag iarraidh an Cheárd-Teastais Ghaedhilge an bhliadhain seo chuaidh thart.

Ní féidir, go fóill, a mheas ina iomlán cad é an toradh a bhéas ar na neithe seo go léir do rinneadh chun feabhas do chur ar theagasc na Gaedhilge agus ar theagasc adhbhar eile tré Ghaedhilge. Ach, mar sin féin, tá a lán comharthai, ann a thaisbeánas go bhfuil dul-chun-cinn maith dhá dhéanamh. Tá na cigirí i gcoithchinne ar aon intinn go bhfuil an teagase dhá dhéanamh go maith tuigseanach agus go bhfuil méadughadh ag teacht ar líon na n-áiteach ina bhfuiltear ghá dhéanamh go sármhaith.

Maidir leis na Coistí Oideachais Ghairme Beatha atá i gConndaethe na Gaedhealtachta, tá méadughadh buan ag teacht ar líon a gcuid múinteoir a bhfuil cáilidheacht aca do réir na gcaighdeán seo ar thrácht mé ortha cheana. Tá cuid mhaith ranga ar obair i gceanntair na Gaedhilge—i gConndae an Chláir, i gCorcaigh, i dTír Chonaill, i nGaillimh, i gCiarraighe agus i bPort Láirge—ranga ina bhfuil Tigheas, agus Obair Adhmaid, agus Tuaith-Eolaidheacht agus adhbhair eile dhá dteagasc tré Ghaedhilge.

Taobh amuigh de Chonndaethe na Gaedhealtachta freisin, tá teagasc tré Ghaedhilge ag dul ar aghaidh, do réir a chéile.

I gcúig conndaethe déag, d'éirigh go maith le ranga do cuireadh ar bun chun adhbhair Tráchtála agus Adhbhair choitcheannta eile do theagasc. Agus ní h-é amháin go ndéantar an teagasc go maith, éifeachtach; ghníthear go croidheamhail, fonnmhar é.

Ag seo cúpla focal as an tuarascbháil a thug duine de na cigirí uaidh: "is dá leóintí féin atá na múinteoirí ag déanamh an-chuid de'n teagasc seo tré Ghaedhilge i Scoltacha an Oideachais Ghairme Beatha. Tá siad ghá dhéanamh go fonnmhar dúthrachtach, agus ní'l aon nidh dá mbaineann leis an obair ina chúis misnighe comh mór leis an nidh sin." An obair a gcuirtear a leithéid sin de chroidhe innte, ní féidir dí gan teacht faoi bhláth.

Ach níl bealach na h-oibre comh réidh sin ins na ranganna oidhche a bhíos ag na ceárd-scoltacha do dhaoine fásta. Bíonn a leithéidí ag gach ceárdscoil; ach is é baramhail na gcigirí i ngach ceanntar go bhfuil cuid de na ranganna oidhche sin gan bheith chomh maith agus ba chóir dóibh—go speisialta i gcás ranganna fá'n dtuaith. Tá níos mó ná fáth amháin le sin. Ní bhíonn deis ró-mhaith ar na ranganna seo go minic. Corr-uair bíonn cuid de'n locht ar an múinteoir; óir ní thuigeann cuid aca nach ionann an modh teagaisc a oireas do dhaoine fasta agus do scoláirí óga na Scoile leanamhna. Ach tá áiteacha eile ann, go h-áithrid i gCorcaigh agus i dTír Chonaill nach bhfuil na lochta sin ortha—agus tá obair mhaith á dhéanamh ionnta.

Ní misde dhom trácht ar nidh eile a bhaineas leis na ranganna oidhche seo chun Gaedhilge do theagasc do dhaoine fásta. Cigire a bhfuil dlúth-bhaint aige leis an obair, deir sé: Dá chlisteacht an scoláire agus dá fheabhas an múinteoir atá aige, ní éireóchidh leis bheith ina chainteoir mhaith Gaedhilge de thoradh cúpla uair sa tseachtmhain do chaitheamh i rang. Ní mór dó, le n-a chois sin, bheith ag labhairt Gaedhilge taobh amuigh de'n rang—bheith ag comhrádh as Gaedhilge le daoine eile agus ag cur a chuid eólais uirthe i bhfeabhas ar an gcaoi sin."

Is léir ó'n méid sin nach leór teagasc i ranganna chun a chur i gcumas daoine an Ghaedhilge do labhairt go maith. Agus tá sin tuigthe ag na Coistí Oideachais Ghairme Beatha beagnach go léir. Bíonn comórtais aca do ranga an lae agus do ranga na h-oidhche; agus, mar dhuaiseanna ins na comórtais sin, bheireann siad scoláireachta uatha a bheireas caoi do'n chuid is fearr de na scoláirí dul go dtí an Ghaedhealtacht, i Mí Iúil, nó i Mí na Lughnasa. I mbliadhain a 1933-34, do chaith beagnach 450 scoláire, as Scoltacha an Oideachais Ghairme Beatha, do chaitheadar mí san Ghaedhealtacht, an áit a raibh gléas ortha tuilleadh mór Gaedhilge d'fhoghluim agus cleachtadh do dhéanamh ar a labhairt ó mhaidin go h-oidhche.

Cuireadh scéim nua—agus scéim thábhachtach, freisin—ag obair i Luimnigh. "Cuireadh rang ar bun do dhaoine fásta a raibh cuid mhaith Gaedhilge aca," deir duine de na cigiri: "Agus tháinig 40 duine chuig an rang. Bhí múinteoirí bun-scoil agus múinteoirí meadhon-scoil ann, agus stat-sheirbhisigh agus feadhmanaigh riaghaltais áiteamhla agus daoine atá i mbun tráchtála agus ceannaidheachta. Is mór a chuidigheas a leithéidí sin de ranganna chun an Ghaedhilge do chur dhá labhairt; agus ba mhaith an nidh a leithéidí do chur ar bun i n-áiteacha eile.

Ar bhealach eile, freisin, do chuidigh na Coistí Oideachais Ghairme Beatha chun an Ghaedhilge do chur chun cinn. Cuid mhaith de na Coistí sin, leig siad saor a gcuid múinteoirí Gaedhilge ar feadh mí nó dho, sa gcaoi go dtiocfadh leó béal-oideas de chruinniughadh. Do cuireadh chuig an gCumann le Béal-Oideas an méid do cruinnigheadh ar an gcaoi sin, an samhradh seo chuaidh thart; agus is mór is fiú do'n Chumann an soláthar céadna.

I dtaobh teagaisc Ealadhan, sé an príomh-rud ar fiú trácht air ná an Buan-Choiste Scoile a cuireadh ar bun. Cuireadh an Buan-Choiste seo ar bun chun aire do thabhairt do eagraidheacht agus do fhoirbhiughadh Scoil Ealadhan na Príomh-Cathrach. Is iad seo na neithe do cuireadh faoi aire an Bhuan-Choiste:

"(1) Infhiuchadh do dhéanamh ar na Cúrsaí Stáidéir atá i bhfeidhm san Scoil, agus athrughadh ortha sin do mholadh, ó am go ham de réir mar measfar sin do bheith oireamhnach;

(2) Eólas d'fhagháil ar na modha ina meastar dul ar aghaidh na scoláirí agus moladh do thabhairt fá aon fheabhas do féadfaidhe do chur ar na modha sin;

(3) A thabhairt fá bhreitheamhnas ciaca ba cheart nó nár cheart Teastas fá leith do bheith ann do'n Scoil; agus, má meastar gur cheart é, comhairle do thabhairt fá na coingheallacha ar a bhfuigheadh scoláirí an Teastas sin.

(4) A thabhairt fá bhreitheamhnas cad iad na modha a b'fhearr ina bhféadfadh an Scoil congnamh chun tréineála do chur ar fagháil do dhaoine ata i mbun ceárd agus oibreacha bhaineas le h-Ealadhain, agus comhairle do thabhairt do réir a mbreith eamhnais;

(5) Molta do dhéanamh, ó am go h-am, do réir mar measfar sin do bheith riachtanach, chun cúrsaí na Scoile do chur i gcomh-eagar, chomh maith agus is féidir sin, leis an teagasc i n-abhair Ealadhan a bheirtear do scoláirí i Meadhon-Scoltacha agus i gCéard-Scoltacha Bhaile Atha Cliath agus sa gceanntar mór-thimcheall na Cathrach;

(6) Infhiúchadh do dhéanamh ar na gléasta chun tréineála i n-adhbhair Ealadhan atá san tSaor-Stát fá láthair, agus na coingheallacha do leagan amach ba chóir do bheith le cóimhlíonadh chun cáilidheachta múinteóra d'fhagháil; agus, ina theannta sin, comhairle do thabhairt maidir le cúrsaí teagaisc sa Scoil le h-aghaidh múinteoirí Meadhon-Scol agus Múinteoirí Ceárd-Scol agus comhairle do thabhairt, freisin, fá adbhair agus fá scóip na gcúrsa sin;

(7) Molta do dhéanamh maidir le cómh-eagar le chéile do bheith idir obair na Scoile agus obair na Scol, Ealadhan atá i gCathair Chorcaighe, i gCathair Luimnighe agus i gCathair Phort Láirge;

(8) Comhairle do thabhairt fá n-a h-ullmhúcháin ar chóir a bhfaisnéis do bheith le fagháil ó'n bPríomh-Oide, gach scoil-bliadhain—ullmhucháin do bhainfeadh, le neithe mar Clár na gCúrsa, Am-Chlár na Rang, Roinnt na h-Oibre ar an bhFuirinn Teagaisc, Fostódh daoine mar dealbh-chuspái, agus soláthar áisí oibre; agus, ina theannta sin, molta do thabhairt fá neithe mar thuarascbhála oibre ó'n bPríomh-Oide, bronnadh duaiseanna, etc.; agus

(9) Comhairle do thabhairt fá cheist ar bith dá gcuirfidh an Roinn i láthair an Choiste, ó am go h-am, i dtaobh obair na Scoile.

Níl aon duine ar an gCoiste ach duine a bhfuil eólas agus cleachtadh aige ar neithe a bhaineas le cúrsaí Ealadhan; agus táthar ag súil gur mór a rachas a gcongnamh chun tairbhe do'n Scoil ar gach uile bhealach.

Cuireadh ós cionn dhá mhíle déag leabhra ar fáil anuiridh sa leabharlann Náisiúnta agus de'n uimhir sin fritheadh beagnach míle leabhar faoi'n Acht Maoine Tionnscail agus Tráchtála (Cosaint) 1926. Rinneadh gach a b'fhéidir a dhéanamh i rith na bliana leis na beárnacha a bhí sa Roinn Ghaedhealach a líonadh le go mbeadh an Roinn sin chómh hiomlán agus is féidir. Tá go leor déanta cheana féin maidir leis an scéal seo le beagán blian anuas agus tig le mic léighinn a bhfuil taighdhe á dhéanamh aca nó daoine a dteastuigheann an gnáth-eolas uatha —agus tá méadú ag teacht ar an uimhir daoine a chuireas suim in sna cúrsaí seo—tig leo an t-ábhar nach mbeadh le fáil aca i n-áiteacha eile a fháil sa leabharlainn Náisiúnta anois. Ceannuightear nó fáightear leabhra agus leabhráin nach bhfuil ach beagán tábhact leo beagnach 'chuile lá ó Mhargaí na sean-leabhar. Ó thárla, ámhthach, na luachanna bheith chómh híseal faoi láthair ceannuigheadh roint leabhra a bhí gann agus a bhí luachmhar, cuir i gcás na céad-eagair de na scríobhnóirí Gaedhealacha sin a mbeadh súil ag duine iad bheith ar láimh sábháilte i gCnuasacht Náisiúnta na hEireann. Ceannuigheadh cuid mhaith láimhscríbhinn i rith na bliana a raibh tábhacht ag baint leo ó thaobh staire agus litríochta.

I rith na bliadhna rinneadh dul 'un cinn sásúil i dtrí Ranna na hIarsmalainne Náisiúnta. Thárla an méadú a tháinic in sna bailiúcháin éagsamhla b'éigin tuilleadh slighe a sholáthar agus i ngeall air sin táthar a' cur an oiread dlúthais agus is féidir leis an socrú atá dhá dhéanamh le lóiste fhir ionaid an Ríogh i bPáirc an Fhionn-Uisce a chur i gcóir le h-aghaidh Iarsmaí. Nuair a bhéas na foirigintí atá i bPáirc an Fhionn-Uisce curtha i gcóir beidh a dhóthain slighe ann do chuid mhór de na Fo-ranna go fada'n lá. De bhrigh nach bhfuil socrú cinnte déanta faoi na mion-phoinntí ar fad a bhaineas le húsáid an lóiste mar iarsmalainn bheadh sé buille luath fógra barrainneach a thabhairt cé na ranna áithride a haistreochar go Páirc an Fhionn-Uisce. Táthar a' súil, ámhthach, gur Iarsmalann tuatha a bhéas thréis tamaill i gcuid de na foirgnighthe a théigheas leis an lóiste, agus go mbeidh sí cosúil le hIarsmalanna áithride i dTír na Lochlann a chuir a leithéidí ar bun i dtosach.

Séard atá ar intinn go léireochadh an Iarsmalann seo na nósa agus na béasa atá ag baint le saoghal lucht na tuatha i nEirinn le linn staire. Séard a bhéas annseo léiriú ar an taobh abhardha de shaoghal na ndaoine a bhéas ag freagairt don bhailiú bhéaloideasa atá á dhéanamh ag an Institút Bhéaloideasa. A bhuidheachas sin ar an Rialtas a chuir an Institút ar bun cúpla bliain ó shoin le hoidhreacht spioradálta na sean-tire coiltigh seo a bhuanú.

I dteannta neithe a bheith ann a léireochas sibhialtacht na tíre sa saoghal a chaitheadh agus i láthair na h-uaire 'sé is dóigh go gcaithfear mórchuid de na bailiúcháin a bhaineas le dána agus tionnscail a chur sa lóiste, go mór-mhór an chuid díobh atá róbhrúighte ar a chéile ins an árus atá i Sráid Chill Dara de bharr a thoirtiúla thríd is thríd atá na neithe atá ann.

I leabaidh a chéile táthar a' líonadh na bhFolúntaisí a bhí ar an bhfoirinn. Líonadh i Mí Iúil posta an Stiúrthóra a bhí folamh agus ceapadh congantóir i Roinn na Staire Aicionta. Sé an cúram atá ar an stiúrthóir ceangal a dhéanamh idir an obair go léir a ghnídhtear san Iarsmalainn agus caingean agus oideas na hIarsmalainne a mhúnlú réir mar fheileas do chúrsaí oideachais na tíre.

Maidir le hobair ealadhanta na hIarsmalainne thárla rud tábhachtach sa mbliain ar a bhfuil muid a' trácht mar is sa mbliain sin a rinneadh tochailt go riaghalta den chéad uair a raibh an Stát ina chionn agus ar caitheadh airgead an Stáit air. Ba faoi stiúrú na Roinne Arsaidheachta Gaedhealacha rinneadh an obair sa mbliain 1934, agus ba chuid é den scéim atá faoi chúram Oifig na nOibreacha Puiblí le fóirithint ar lucht ceal-oibre.

Bhí dháréag is fiche de cheannaraí ealadhanta a' stiúradh na h-oibre agus gan trácht ar an toradh a bhí ar a saothar ar bhealaigh eile sé an príomhthairbhe a tháinig as an scéim seo i gcoitchinne, gur ionann an tochailt seo, ar eirigh chómh maith sin léi, agus scoil Náisiúnta neamh-spleadhach Sean-dálaíocht a chur ar bun le bheith mar tosca i dtaighde eadarnáisiúnta.

Rud tábhachtach eile a raibh baint ag an Iarsmalainn leis agus sin an coiste a bunuigheadh le goirid ar a dtugtar an "Committee for Quaternary Research in Ireland." Sé'n fáth ar bunuigheadh é seo le géolaíocht, luibheoluíocht sheanda, Beatheoluíocht Sheanda agus sean-dálaíocht a chur i bhfreagracht dá chéile.

Thug an Rialtas deontas i gcóir na h-oibre agus chuir sé seo, i dteannta na cabhrach a fritheadh ó áiteacha eile, ar chumas an Choiste an rud a bhí beartuighthe aca a dhéanamh go sásúil. Fritheadh cabhair ón té is oilte san Euróip i gcúrsai staidéir ar phortaigh, agus an túisce a fritheadh cuireadh scéim mhór taighde ar bun i dhá gceanntar fichead áithride ó cheann ceann na tíre.

Sé'n fáth ar toghadh deich gcinn fhichead de na ceanntair seo mar go raibh roinn na Sean-dálaíochta Gaedhealaighe thréis somplaí fháil a bhí coitchianta go maith i gCeanntracha aithride.

I move that the Estimate be referred back for reconsideration.

The practice has been to survey the whole field of education, as presented in Estimates 45 to 51, inclusive, in the debate on the Vote for the Office of the Minister. The Chair assumes that that procedure will be followed on this occasion or, at least, that the discussion now opened will cover the departments of primary, secondary and technical education.

I do not intend to go outside that. I move this motion on —to use words which have been used before—an issue of first-class importance. We have had many statements from the Minister and from members of his Party from time to time and we have had evidence of various kinds in the reports of his Department and in the reports of other bodies interested in the preservation of the Irish language which would go to show that the position of the Irish language in the Irish-speaking districts is weakening and that its position in the primary schools in these districts is not good. The Minister himself has been complaining of the paucity of the results there. While the position in the Irish-speaking districts is bad, while the Departmental inspectors have to complain that the language is receding in its living strength there, and while the Minister, estimating the results in the primary schools, has to turn aside from his Department and appeal to outside bodies to come in and save the language, parents, to a large number, in the City of Dublin who are bringing up their children with Irish in the home are not able to get primary education for them through the medium of Irish.

When the Minister was asked on 12th December last whether he would say what his policy was in that particular line for the restoration of the Irish language as the vernacular in the City of Dublin amongst people who were endeavouring to bring up their children in Irish-speaking homes, he replied: "The Minister will not say." In December last we had a very great commotion among people supposed to be interested in the Irish language when a decision was given which affected a small Protestant school in Wexford where the Irish language was not taught. I understand that a decision was given in the District Court which upheld the Guards' charge that the children attending that school were not complying with the Compulsory Attendance Act. That decision was reversed in a higher court and we were told by the Governmental Press that an issue of the first importance had been raised. We were told by people who, in an amateur kind of way, are champions of the Gael and the Gaels' language, that a challenge had been flung down to all Gaels, and that English law which would undermine the Irish language should be cleared out of this country. The Irish language which is of any use to Irish nationality is the language as the virile language of the people, warmed by Irish hearts and expressing the integrity of Irish minds. No other kind of language is of any use, and no other kind of language was taken into consideration with regard to the objective which the people who started the Irish language movement had, or which the real workers in the Irish language movement have to-day. We are interested in seeing that what was the Irish language will be the Irish language, and that it shall mean to us and to our children in the future what it meant to the people of this country when Irish was the medium of their thoughts, and when their whole lives were expressed through the medium of Irish.

We are dependent for the realisation of that ideal on saving the language in the Irish-speaking districts. There is a very limited area there, and a very limited number of people speaking Irish naturally, with only some of them handing it on to their children, and the schools there doing whatever they can to teach the children through the medium of that language, and to inspire them with the necessity for maintaining the full linguistic traditions of their homes. The position there is poor. In page 36 of the Departmental Report for the year 1932-33 we read:

"It has been felt, however, that, notwithstanding the efforts made in this way and the work which has been done in the schools and elsewhere to promote the use of Irish, the position generally in the Irish-speaking district is unsatisfactory, and that the language is still receding as a living language in the vast majority of the areas of the Gaeltacht, and in all the districts of the Breac-Ghaeltacht. In the Breac-Ghaeltacht only the older people speak Irish, and as these die out, the language as a living speech is disappearing with them. In the Gaeltacht the language is still used as the home speech in a very restricted number of areas, but in over two-thirds of the Gaeltacht Irish is dying as the home language, owing to the fact that though the older people know Irish they cannot see any economic value in speaking it to the children, whereas the economic value of English is self-evident."

That is the last Departmental report issued, and that is what it says with regard to the position in the Gaeltacht.

In reply to a Parliamentary question, the Minister provided information as to the number of families that were involved and the number of children that were involved in the receipt of the bonus of £2 which is paid to every child between the age of six and 14 years giving satisfactory attendance in schools in either the Gaeltacht or the Breac-Ghaeltacht, and coming from homes where Irish is being used as the home language. When we turn to those figures we get a very depressing picture of the situation there. The Departmental report is in broad and general terms; it gives simply the kind of impression which was made upon the departmental mind when a few reports of the inspectors were put together, but those figures which I propose to quote here go very much more deeply into the situation. According to statistics collected, I think, in the year 1931, and published in a Parliamentary answer in May, 1932, there were in the Irish-speaking districts of Donegal 4,826 farms in which Irish was said to be the natural language of the home and where it was spoken by both children and grown-ups. There were 3,614 farms where Irish was the natural language of the grown-ups, and where English was spoken by the children. You had, therefore, in the Irish-speaking districts in Donegal 8,440 houses where Irish was the natural language of the older people, and of those 8,440 houses only 1,788 are reflected in the bonus scheme which the Minister applies to that district. The number of children involved is 3,496. In the partly Irish-speaking districts of Donegal the number of houses in which Irish was the natural language of the grown-ups was 1,187 and only 47 of those houses sent Irish-speaking children to the schools. They sent 78 children.

In Galway, where the Minister said six more schools had to be examined, there were 7,457 homes in the Irish-speaking districts where Irish was the natural language of the grown-ups. Out of those 7,457 only 1,586 sent Irish-speaking children to the schools in the neighbourhood. The number of children they sent was 2,919. In the partly Irish-speaking districts in Galway there were 3,097 homes in which Irish was the natural language of the grown-ups. In 283 of those it was stated that Irish was also spoken by the children, but only 45 out of those 3,097 houses sent Irish-speaking children to the schools in the neighbourhood. They sent 67 children. In the Irish-speaking districts in Kerry there were 3,278 houses where Irish was the natural language of the grown-ups, but only 422 of those sent Irish-speaking children to the schools. They sent 809 children. In the partly Irish-speaking districts of Kerry with 1,346 Irish-speaking homes where Irish was spoken, children were sent from only 18 houses. From these 18 houses there were 35 Irish-speaking children sent. In Mayo in the Irish-speaking districts and with seven schools, between Irish and partly Irish-speaking districts, out of 3,424 homes where Irish was naturally spoken only 269 of these homes sent Irish-speaking children to the schools in the neighbourhood to the number of 556. Out of 2,990 similar homes in the partly Irish-speaking districts only 14 houses sent Irish-speaking children to the schools and these only sent 25 in all. In the County Cork from 1,036 Irish-speaking homes only 167 children were sent and the number of Irish-speaking children from these 167 houses was 303. In the partly Irish-speaking districts in the County Cork out of 1,498 such homes only 14 of them sent Irish-speaking children to the number of 18. In Clare out of 578 Irish-speaking homes only 11 of them sent Irish-speaking children to the number of 12. In the partly Irish-speaking districts in Clare out of 1,335 homes in which Irish was the natural language of the grown-ups only one of them sent one child to an Irish-speaking school in the neighbourhood. In Waterford out of 867 such homes only seven sent Irish-speaking children to the number of 15. In the partly Irish-speaking districts of Waterford out of 399 homes only one of them sent one child to one of these schools. And this has all happened where the inducement was that every child between the ages of six and 14 giving a good attendance at school and coming from a home that was an Irish-speaking home got a bonus of £2.

As far as the general schools are concerned the Minister declared in March last in Dun Laoghaire that he was not satisfied with the results obtained in the national schools from the teaching of Irish and he announced that such was the position that it was his intention to enquire from the inspectors what was the reason for the paucity of results in the teaching of Irish in the national schools. The Minister is fully alive to what the restoration of the language means, and I believe that he is fully determined to do what he can to see that the language is restored. There is a tendency amongst quite a number of people who call themselves Gaels and who talk very loudly about the Irish language to think that talking is working. The Minister knows from his connection with the country that there are very fiery people who hide by a display of fire and enthusiasm in English their own incompetence to do any single thing either on this or in any other direction they can go to improve the living Irish language position in this country. I think the Minister and his Department are sinking somewhat to that level. But, as I say, he understands the position and I think his intention is good, and, if his intention could improve things, that improvement could take place. But I criticise the Minister's general attitude to certain aspects of this problem, and I criticise very much the whole tone and mind of the Department. Speaking in January of this year to the vocational teachers and members of the Dublin Vocational Committee, as reported in the Irish Press of 21st January, 1935, we find the following statement:—

"Dubhairt an t-Aire gurb é ba chuspóir dó an Gaedhilg do chur dá labhairt arís mar gnáth-theanga ar fub na tíre uile. Chreid sé go raibh sé de dhualgas ar an Rialtas a ndícheall agus a ndúthracht a dhéanamh, ar gach dóigh agus ar gach bealach, leis an chuspóir sin a chur i bhfeidhm agus a thabhairt chun chríce.

`Ach ní féidir do'n Rialtais,' ars an t-Áire. `sin a dhéanamh gan congnamh na ndaoine i gcoitchinne. Mar sin de creidim go bhfuil an dualgas ar gach uile Eireannach a dhícheall agus a dhúthracht a dhéanamh mar an gcéadna leis an chuspóir uasal seo a thabhairt chun chinn.' "

Then, speaking in English, the Minister dealt with the position that existed where the English language was almost universally used and is contesting the ground with Irish in the remote Gaelic districts. "The position is, therefore, serious," said the Minister. "I think it is so serious that it is our bounden duty here and now to do everything in our power to extend the use of Irish in every sphere, in the trades, in business, in the professions, in the Press, on the radio, and without any further delay. The position is still more serious from another point of view. The foundations of our building have been laid, but the walls have still to go up. Unless there is some corresponding development in the use of Irish outside the schools it is clear that much of the toil of the past ten years will have been in vain. As it is, there is a vast and saddening wastage. It is of great value that no public position can be secured by a person ignorant of Irish. I do not think this barrier alone will, however, stop the wastage. In my opinion the only way in which it can be stopped effectively, short of reversing the present policy altogether, is to ensure that Irish as the national language is accorded its proper place in this country. The present waste of the work of the schools will continue in large measure until the parents and grown-ups of all classes can be got to take a more active interest in the language. Not the least obstacle in our way has been the indifference of parents."

Not the least obstacle, certainly, in the way has been the indifference of parents. Nevertheless I find myself forced by the Minister's attitude to speak for the parents who have worked and toiled for many years to put Irish in the most secure possible place from which it can be spread to the professions, trades, and public places into their own homes and into the homes as groups co-operating together and working together. It is on behalf of those parents that I have to move to refer back this Estimate for further consideration so that the Minister may do something to help those people to continue the work they are doing. What is the position in the City of Dublin? We have already discussed the difficulties that we had in getting an Irish primary school started.

Under the last Administration a Girls' school and a Boys' school were set up in the city and the Minister must know that even then we had our own difficulties with the Department, with certain bodies outside and with certain of the teachers, to get primary education through the medium of Irish started soundly. There was a very great struggle to get it done, and at any rate the position in 1932 was that we had in the City of Dublin two boys' schools—Scoil Naomh Pádraig ah-aon and Scoil Naomh Pádraig a dho, Scoil Colmcille and Scoil Mhuire. We had four schools on the North side of the city. If we include the children attending in the Infants and first stages, as well as in the higher stages, there were 502 on the rolls of Scoil Naomh Pádraig a h-aon; 162 in Scoil N.P. a dho; 97 in Scoil Colmcille and 190 in Scoil Mhuire. In the preparatory school just started, in conjunction with Scoil Mhuire, there were 132 pupils, so that on the North side of the city we had about 900 children getting primary education through the medium of Irish, and on the south side 283.

It was argued by the Department when Scoil Mhuire was set up that there was not a sufficient number of children to attend it. We had 190 pupils in 1932, and in December of last year we had 421. In Scoil Colmcille we had 97 in 1932, and 251 last year. There was a considerable growth there. I do not know whether there has been growth in St. Patrick's Schools. That growth was there, simply because facilities for opening were given. The only opening on the South side was Scoil Brighde. People on the South side sent their children to the North. They sent very young children from Rathmines and Terenure down to the heart of the city to Scoil Mhuire and Scoil Colmcille, but when these schools filled and when they were not able to get in any more, they took steps to form an association and asked the Minister to set up a school on the South side which would cater for people who in the City of Dublin were rearing their children with pre-school Irish, making it the language of the nursery and the home. The Minister showed that he was most sympathetic to them. They wrote making the application to him in May, 1933, and he replied to them in the same month:

"Go raibh se féin ag machtnamh ar an scéal san cheana féin agus go raibh an Roinn ag lorg ionad oireamhnaigh no tigh le haghaidh na scoile——"

that he had himself been thinking over the same thing and the Department had been looking for a suitable building for a school, and he wanted to know how many children would be available for the school and asked their assistance in looking around for a site. They replied the following month, in June, and representing at least 33 parents as a body interested in the general scheme and able to influence others, they sent him a list of 123 children. He asked them for a further list, and he got a further list of 110 children. Then the situation dragged on and we pass from the autumn of 1933 to the summer of 1934, and the scheme has not progressed any further. They asked the Minister to receive a deputation again, and he replied on February 2nd, 1934:—

"go bhfuil gach dicheall a dhéanamh chun an scéil do chur chun cinn. Mheas an tAire go raibh fhios fáth an sceil go h-iomlán aige, agus, da bharr san, níor cheap sé go raibh aon ghádh comh-chainnt a dhéanamh le-toscaireacht ó'n gcoiste, ach má cheapann sé go mbeidh gadh le n-a leithéid a dhéanamh cuirfear litir eile ag mall ort."

—he was doing everything he could to advance the matter and he had most of the facts before him and did not think it was necessary to receive a deputation from the Committee, and if he wanted further information he would send for them.

Then, after certain discussions had gone on with the representatives of the Department, officially or unofficially, the matter became a financial one and the Minister for Finance was asked in August, 1934, to receive a deputation. The Minister's secretary replied to say that in view of the pressure of business he would be unable "for some months" to discuss the question. The Minister had, however, noted the contents of the deputation's enclosure.

The position, apparently, was, however, as explained in column 902, Official Debates, December 12th, 1934, when the Minister was asked if he would state whether he had given any further consideration to the application of parents in the Rathmines and contiguous areas in the City of Dublin for the setting up of an all-Irish primary school, and, if so, if he would state whether he proposed to establish such a school, and if not, if he would state the reasons for his not so doing. The Minister replied:—

"Under the terms of Rule 22 (4) (a) of the rules and regulations for National Schools, recognition may be granted exceptionally to a school for Irish speaking children as defined in that rule, notwithstanding that another national school or schools exist in the neighbourhood, but the responsibility for the establishment of a school of this kind does not wholly devolve upon the State.

"The issue in this matter has been discussed with representatives of the local parties, who are interested in the establishment of a Scoil Gaedhlach in Rathmines, and they have been made aware of the position."

I asked the Minister then if the position was that if they put up £1,000 he would establish an Irish primary school in that area or some area near that, and the Minister said that was a separate question and what his policy was in the matter he would not say. There have been discussions with the people who are anxious for this particular type of school in the south of the city. The Minister must be aware of the earnestness of these people. He must be aware of what help people like that can give him, if he understands the problem at all, to give him a proper standard in the schools as well as to influence the whole neighbourhood and to help the work of other schools. If the Minister is in touch with the restoration of the Irish language as the vernacular in homes in the City of Dublin, he must know what influence homes of that particular kind have on the homes of friends because children from other homes come to realise how natural it is to speak Irish in the home, and they are induced to use Irish among themselves and to a considerable extent outside the schools, in such a way that they would not have an opportunity of otherwise. The Minister, after expressing the fact to these parents that he had been thinking of a scheme like that, and that he was looking for a place, after saying he understood the problem and that he was hurrying up, falls back on the financial aspect and says somebody must provide some money to put up a school. The Minister has been talking about the amount of money that he is going to spend on school buildings throughout the country and if, as I understand, he is going to expend £280,000 on the building of schools, less than £80,000 of that is going to come from any other source than Government grants. So zealous were the parents in this case that a number of them offered to put up sums of money to start a small fund to assist the setting up of the school. The Minister knows that this proposal has the approval of the various managers who might be concerned in the area. He knows that the people who are anxious to get the schools cannot of themselves put up anything like £1,000.

These are the focal points of recovery for the Irish language in the country and when the Minister considers the amount of money he has spent on Irish education and directly in the Irish-speaking districts it is very lamentable that he cannot see that he ought to be prepared to spend many times as much on setting up schools of this kind out of State funds if he can get groups of people such as these parents to co-operate with him not only to send their own children but to act as a headline and guide for other people in their districts to send their children thereto. What does the Minister think is going to happen in Dublin City if these parents find no more all-Irish school accommodation provided as far as the primary side goes? I have given the Minister credit for wanting to proceed with this but there is one aspect of that which would make me somewhat suspicious of the Minister's attitude and that is that when he was told that 123 children were ready to go into the all-Irish school, Scoil Mhuire, he asked for more. He is aware that a boys' school was set up by the Christian Brothers a number of years ago and I do not suppose there were more than 30 pupils promised. Now, they have a first-class all-Irish secondary school for perhaps more than 200 children, so that in asking for more pupils I would be inclined to suspect the Minister's bona fides and I do not want to do it. I would urge that this is a matter of first-class importance for the City of Dublin and for the City of Cork, for that matter, if in the same proportion there are people looking for these facilities. If he does not meet parents of that kind and provide them with facilities for getting all-Irish education the Minister can fire his all-Irish policy to the winds, because he is not going to influence the Irish-speaking districts if that is the spirit that sits in the Department of Education nor will it improve the position of the teaching of Irish in the ordinary primary schools if he cannot show his teachers and his inspectors and himself what it is possible to do in schools where you get the influence of the home thrown in as well. The influence of a movement like the Gaelic League such as the Minister is looking for to help his schools will have nothing but a disturbing and disrupting influence. The Gaelic League movement was never anything but a big propaganda movement and I do not think anyone could point to 20 people of whom, from the very beginning of the Gaelic League down to to-day, it could be said that by the Gaelic League movement alone they had become an addition to the living Irish language position.

Má is dóich leis an dTeachta gur duine aca é féin—níl ansan, ámhtach, ach aon duine amháin. But I am saying what I believe to be only too true, that there are not even a dozen persons who attended the Gaelic League and assimilated the Irish language there to such an extent that they were an addition to the living Irish language position.

I would like to hear the Deputy's views because it is a very important matter, and I am glad that Deputies are showing such an interest in the statement I made about the Gaelic League.

In your nonsense.

If the Deputies want to claim that the Gaelic League did the work of the schools they have missed my point, but to the living Irish language position in this country there were not more than a dozen people I know who did that work for the League. The Gaelic League was nothing but a big propagandist movement. If the Minister does not realise the focal points of development and progress he should. One of the focal points is the establishment of the schools in the capital of the country where you have parents working as well to give the children pre-school Irish and they are looking for Irish primary schools and Irish secondary schools where that work can be continued. And if that material is spurned I would like to know from what other focal point development is going to come. And while we are dealing with it there is another point which has received very little consideration and which makes me suspicious that the Minister has no very clear objective in what he is moving to in the language development. On previous occasions I have had to complain of the type of inspection carried out in the Irish-speaking schools here in the city, for if we take the number of teachers allocated to the schools we can make some interesting comparison. I have here the return of the Board of Education in England and Wales. Turning to Wales, I find that in the schools in which classes are over 50, we find that in urban areas under the councils where there are 3,000 classes only 1.9 per cent. of these classes have more than 50 children, that is more than 50 children on the rolls. In rural areas under county councils where there are 4,602 classes the percentage of these schools with over 50 children is as little as 0.4 per cent. In the boroughs and urban districts, with 2,870 classes, the percentage is as low as 0.6; in the county boroughs, with 2,343 classes, the percentage is 5.2 and the total for Wales, 13,695 classes with over 60 children is as low as 1.7 per cent. Turning to England, with 138,255 classes the percentage with more than 50 children on the rolls is only 5.8. In the middle of an English-speaking city here, we have two or three primary schools giving primary education through the medium of Irish. What is the size of the classes that these teachers are handling? In Scoil Mhuire, in November last, there were eight teachers. Seven of these teachers had more than 50 children in their classes. One had 54, another 54, another 55, another 53, another 56 and another 53. In one case, the two classes totalled 53. In November, in Scoil Colmcille, there were four teachers. One had 75 in his class, another 49, another 82—two classes in one—and another 45. I do not know what kind of mentality exists with regard to primary education through the medium of Irish when, within 120 yards of the Minister's own door, there is a situation like that.

The Minister complains of the general position and says that not the least obstacle in the way has been the indifference of the parents. So intense has been the feeling of some parents on this subject of getting education through the medium of Irish for their children that I think an antagonism has arisen between a number of the most important officials in the Department of Education and these parents. There is a tendency on behalf of certain people in the Department who are forced in this particular matter to dub those in the City of Dublin who look for an Irish education for their children as "the new aristocracy"— people who are looking for something that the ordinary people are not getting. If there is to be the expenditure on primary schools that we see, if there is to be payment of children in Irish-speaking districts to try to keep the older people in the Gaeltacht talking in Irish in their homes, I ask on behalf of the people of the City of Dublin who are anxious to help in restoring Irish as the vernacular in their own homes and, through the homes, in the City—I ask for more assistance and more understanding from the Minister and his Department than has been given up to the present.

The Minister has published notes for teachers. These are contained in an interesting and instructive pamphlet showing what the Minister is trying to do in the schools. The pamphlet runs to 56 pages. There is a tobacco-growing manual which runs to 88 pages and contains a number of costly illustrations. One can buy the tobacco-growing manual for sixpence but, if one is interested in the work that is being done in the schools and seeks a copy of the notes on the teaching of Irish, he has to pay 1/-. Before the Minister repeats his charge against the parents, even in a small matter like that, he should see that the parents are encouraged to take an interest in the work by making these booklets available at, at least, the price at which they would get a manual on the growing of tobacco.

The Minister and some of the officials of his Department took an active interest recently in the promotion of a post-school hours association for children attending secondary schools where Irish is the medium of education. That effort was knocked on the head because some of the people who rant most and talk loudest—very often through the medium of English—considered that it was unnational and unpatriotic to allow physical instructors from the Army to have any contact with the children attending the secondary schools. The Minister surrendered to that ramp.

I do not think that the Minister has anything to do with that and I wonder how it arises on this Vote.

With a view to developing the use of Irish outside school hours and with a view to making Irish a more natural medium for children in post-school hours, there was a movement in which I know some of the officials of the Minister's Department were interested. The students of certain secondary schools in the city came together for physical education and amusement. They were getting on nicely and were attending a gymnasium in some of the barracks in the city. Because of this ramp on the part of English-speaking Gaels of the ranting type, the movement was dropped.

The Chair has to be guided by the Minister on the question of his responsibility. The Minister states that he has no responsibility in connection with this matter. The Deputy will, I presume, have an opportunity of raising the question on the Vote for the office of whatever Minister is responsible.

The Minister, responsible for the Department of Education and interested in Irish, has been going round the country saying that somebody must help the schools—that something must be done outside the schools. Parents are told that they must do this, the Gaelic League is to do that, the professions are to do this, and the Civil Service is to do that. The Minister is the only member of the Government here upon whom we can place any responsibility for the restoration of Irish as the vernacular. He wants help for the schools from outside. The Minister for Defence told us yesterday that he hoped to be able to assist the schools by giving them the benefit of the physical training scheme going on in the Army. But a particular scheme of this kind has been dropped. That is a loss to the living Irish position in the City of Dublin. If the Minister was not interested in the scheme up to the present, I ask him to find out where the scheme has been left, where it has been dropped, and to get that type of scheme resurrected as one of the ways of obtaining outside assistance for the schools. The main reason why I very sincerely move that this Estimate be referred back is so that the Minister may further consider what he is going to do in the matter of offering facilities for primary education through the medium of Irish to those who are keeping Irish speaking homes in the City of Dublin.

There are a number of things about which, I think, the Minister should tell the House in dealing with this Estimate. I should like to hear more about what he is going to do in connection with the Gaeltacht position. I feel that the inspectorial position is wrong; that the Minister will not get proper inspectorial work done in the Irish speaking districts until he makes those districts an inspectorate in themselves, or, at any rate, until he secures that those who are working as inspectors in the Irish speaking districts will not have one leg in a completely English speaking district and one leg in the Gaeltacht. Not only is there a school problem in the Gaeltacht but there is a problem which exists outside the school. I think that organising work of a particular kind has to be carried out from the school in the Irish speaking districts if the older people are to be linked up in interest with what is going on in the school, and with the intentions of the Department. If inspectors were confined to the Irish speaking districts, and had no responsibility on their minds for any English speaking districts, you would get a very definite standard; you would find effort better applied, and get a better understanding as to what is required to be done in the Irish speaking districts in order to improve the school condition itself and the connection between the school and the home. I said that the Minister had announced at Dun Laoighaire in March last year that it was his intention to enquire from the inspectors as to what was the reason for the paucity of the results from the teaching of Irish in the National Schools. I think the Minister should tell us what has transpired as a result of any enquiry carried out in that particular way.

There is another matter which I should like to hear the Minister discuss. In reply to a question by Deputy Murphy some time last year the Minister gave information as to the number of students who had left the training colleges in 1932 and 1933, and who had been students of the preparatory colleges. The information given by the Minister was that in 1932, 59 men who had been preparatory college students had completed their training course, and that 25 of them failed to get the bilingual certificate. In the same year 44 women, who had been through the preparatory colleges, finished their training, and 20 of those failed to get the bilingual certificate. In the year 1933, 43 men who had been students of the preparatory colleges left the training colleges and 20 of them failed to obtain the bilingual certificate. Of the 97 women who had been students of the preparatory colleges and who had left the training colleges in 1933, 54 failed to obtain the bilingual certificate. It is a very remarkable fact that more than 40 per cent. of the men and women leaving the training colleges in 1932 and 1933—who had been, I suppose, two years in the training colleges and at least two years if not more in the preparatory colleges, in which I understand all their instructions are given through the medium of Irish—failed to get the bilingual certificate for teaching through the medium of Irish. We have been told that there is a delay in the development of the good work in the schools while we are waiting for the product of the preparatory and the training colleges. If the work which is being done in the preparatory colleges is of a type which gives us those results, we should like to know if the Minister has had any examination made as to the position of both the training colleges and the preparatory colleges, with a view to seeing what is the explanation of this state of affairs, and what prospect there is of remedying it.

There is another matter about which I should like to hear the Minister say something. There has been a lot of publicity given to the creation of a new Gaeltacht community in Meath. Twelve Irish-speaking families are being brought into Meath and given separate holdings there. The idea is that there is to be an extension of that process. It has been discussed from various angles, and I have heard a number of the Minister's own Party declare that it will be a great loss to the Irish language if those people are absorbed into the English-speaking community. I should like to ask the Minister what provision is being made on the school side for seeing that those families will not be absorbed into the English-speaking community in a very short time. Again, without going outside of the limit which you, Sir, have put on this debate, I should like to draw the Minister's attention——

The Chair did not put any limit on the debate, beyond indicating that it has been customary to cover at least four of those Education Votes on the debate on the Office of the Minister. That procedure would not preclude Deputies from asking questions on minor points on the separate Votes. It is a matter of procedure to be decided by the House. I suggested that four be discussed together, but if the Deputy cares to cover all the Votes he certainly may do so.

The President, speaking at the Silver Jubilee of the Association of Secondary Teachers in December last, stated that the Government had had a difficult time in the fields of industry and economics, and perhaps they had not been able to give as much time and attention to education as it deserved, but the time had come when they could promise that the whole subject would be carefully examined. There had been a certain amount of discussion as to the position of University education and secondary education. Incidentally, there has been very considerable complaint on the part of the managers of secondary schools as to the delay in issuing the results of the secondary schools' examinations. I think I recall one headmaster declaring at one of their annual meetings that it took the edge completely off the competitive spirit of some of the pupils if the results of the summer examinations were not published until some time in November. I should like the Minister to say to what extent anything is being done to implement what is called here in the Irish Independent“the President's promise” that the whole subject of education would be carefully examined. The Minister, I think, also stated that there was an Inter-Departmental Committee inquiring into the advisability of raising the schoolleaving age to 16 years. I should like to know if that Inter-Departmental Committee has made any report, and if the Minister proposes to give the House any information as to what that report contained.

Again, I should like to revert to the matter with which I opened. If the Minister has any conception of how the Irish language is going to be restored in this country, he will not fail to help those people in the capital of this State here who are looking for Irish-speaking schools to which to send their children.

The Minister, replying to me in December last, said that there was no waiting list in the preparatory schools in Marlborough Street. He implied that there was not a waiting list in Scoil Brigidhe. I could tell the Minister that there are at least 200 children waiting to get into the preparatory schools in Marlborough Street. Again I want to repeat that in Scoil Brighde the children are hanging out the windows and that there are 200 or 300 children waiting to get into it. If the Minister says he is not going to allow any more children in Scoil Brighde, then that is all the more reason why he should provide additional accommoda-tion on the south side of the city. If an experiment is being carried out in Scoil Brighde as to the effect of teaching Irish, some of us will want to know what the experiment is, how it has turned out and whether anything that the Minister has learned in that school could be turned to effect or is it proposed to be turned to effect to improve the bad position of the language in the national schools, even after a number of years very hard work.

There are a few matters on which I should like to obtain information from the Minister. I think he is familiar with the case that was raised some time ago, when the Irish National Teachers' Organisation made representations to him on the subject of the dismissal of teachers due to falling averages in the attendances of children at schools. This is a very great source of trouble with the teaching profession in the country. In some cases something almost akin to consternation is produced by the facility with which it is possible for teachers to lose their positions in schools in which the average attendance of the children fell in two consecutive quarters below a certain figure, where the fall cannot be certified as due to an epidemic amongst the children. In some cases where the average falls below a certain line the teacher's position is forfeited and the Department is no longer responsible for the payment of salary to the teacher. That is a very serious hardship. It is a serious position when a teacher who has spent an amount of money on his education and who may be in regular employment, suddenly finds himself out of employment due to falling averages. He finds that he is no longer required and that his salary as teacher cannot any longer be paid by the Department of Education. In such cases he has no redress. He has got to try to secure employment elsewhere. I suggest to the Minister that both the Department of Education and the Department of Finance have had adequate time in which to consider that matter. Something should be done by the Departments concerned to meet the legitimate grievances which the teachers' organisation has brought to their notice. I suggest to the Minister that that something might take the form of requiring that the average might be below a certain figure for more than two consecutive quarters or that before the teacher loses his position provision might be made requiring the average to fall to a lower figure than at present. Unfortunately there is a very serious hardship on the teachers through loss of employment as a result of the falling averages. The Department should not throw the whole responsibility for that state of affairs on the teachers but rather they should make some sort of approach to the problem in some way calculated to mitigate its worst hardships.

There is another matter that I brought to the notice of the Minister some time ago. That was in reference to the payment of teachers' salaries. At one time teachers used to be paid quarterly. Some years ago provision was made by which they were paid monthly. But, as a matter of fact, the teachers are not paid monthly, though supposed to be. There are cases where teachers are paid on the 1st, the 4th, the 5th and the 6th of the month. Some of them do not get their cheques before the 20th of the month, so that in these cases the teacher is something like six weeks in arrears. As a result of the services he performs for the community he has to wait six weeks for his salary. I think the Minister will admit that the teachers are not such affluent persons or that they are not living in such affluence that they can afford to wait for six weeks for their salaries. I ask the Minister to meet the complaint made by the teacher in that respect. I understand that the difficulty arises from the fact that the manager of the school must certify that the teacher works from the 1st to the 31st of the month and that he will not sign that form until the end of the month. It is only on receipt of that form that the Department of Education issues the paying order to the teacher. As I said already, the teachers wait six, ten or 12 days and even longer before they receive their salaries for the previous month. I suggest to the Minister that it ought to be possible to devise some machinery by which the managers would be required to complete these forms, say, on the 26th of the month, certifying that the teacher has worked up to the 25th of the month and that there was no reason to assume that he would not work the remainder. If, for any reason, he did not complete the month's work, the necessary adjustments could be made in his remuneration on the following month. It seems to me that a suitable way could be devised to meet that difficulty. The delay is caused because the forms are not sent in until the last day of the month. A change in this matter would certainly give satisfaction to the teachers and I think it is one which it would be possible for the Department to carry out without inflicting any undue burden on the Exchequer. After all, if it is possible to pay civil servants their salaries on the 1st of the month and to pay workmen their weekly wages punctually, there should be no difficulty in seeing that the teachers should be paid on the 1st of the month instead of having to wait, as they do, six weeks for their salaries.

In reply to a question addressed to the Minister in this House some time ago, we were informed that the question of providing school books for the children was a matter that was under consideration by the Department of Education. I understood from the reply that a committee was examining the question of providing these school books for the children. I would like to know from the Minister whether that committee has yet reported, whether it is proposed to provide school books for necessitous school children, and, if so, when that report is to be introduced. If the committee has reported adversely I would like to know on what grounds they did so. If they did so report is it permitted to the local authorities to strike a rate for the purpose of providing such books for necessitous school children? If the local authorities do that will the Minister say whether the Department of Education or the Department of Finance proposes to recoup the local authorities in respect of any portion of that expenditure?

When the Act for the revision of teachers' pensions was being passed by this House I think that some promise was made that the position of the junior assistant mistresses who retired before the new superannuation proposals came into operation would be specially and sympathetically considered. The Minister has probably had brought to his notice the fact that there are a number of junior assistant mistresses who retired before the new superannuation scheme came into operation. In these cases the persons concerned have rendered considerable teaching service to the State and they are receiving no pensions whatever. I have one particular case in mind where a junior assistant mistress was permitted to serve until she was 70 years of age having rendered 49 years' service, and being a person who was fully qualified in all respects, including having a bilingual certificate. After rendering 49 years' service, she was required to resign and she did not receive one farthing from the State.

The position of junior assistant mistresses is now met by the new superannuation scheme which is in operation, but I would ask the Minister to give sympathetic consideration to those who have retired before the new scheme was introduced, and I think it should be possible for him to find deserving categories of junior assistant mistresses whose claims will be such as to justify the State making a superannuation allowance in these cases. I want, Sir, to congratulate the Minister for what is a very informative statement so far as the work of his Department is concerned, but while many portions of it are informative, other portions disclose a very serious state of affairs as far as national schools are concerned. In the Minister's statement he says:—

"There is, unfortunately, still a large number of insanitary schoolhouses. In the rural areas the problem is largely one of replacement; in the towns and cities in addition to the replacement of buildings which are wholly unsuitable, many schools which are considerably overcrowded require to be enlarged."

Here we have declarations from the Minister that there are a large number of insanitary schoolhouses, that in rural areas the problem is one largely of replacement, and I would like to know from him what plans the Government have in mind to make the insanitary schools sanitary, to repair the structurally defective, and generally to make some of these buildings which at present masquerade as schools something more like schools in the more modern sense of that term. Further, in the course of his statement, the Minister, referring to the manner in which managers regarded their obligations towards the maintenance and improvement of their schools, said:—

"Some managers make every effort, and, in some cases exceed their means, in their efforts to repair and improve their schools, but a great many of them are rather neglectful in this matter. Many indeed find it very difficult to provide the necessary funds, but there are some who would appear to view with indifference the condition of the school buildings under their care."

Here, bearing in mind the usual Ministerial caution that must be displayed in constructing statements of this kind, we have a definite declaration that there are many managers who appear to view with indifference the condition of the school buildings under their care. If that statement can be substantiated, and I have no doubt it was made only after a careful examination, and after the Minister had received reports convincing him of the facts, we ought to know what his proposals are for dealing with managers of that kind. But, the most striking statement made by the Minister from the point of view of the condition of national schools was when he said:—

"The inspectors are all agreed that proper attention is not given to the condition of the out-offices. The floors and seats of these are all too frequently wet and dirty."

Some other statements are made supporting that, and he goes on to say:—

"A foul odour emanates from them, especially in summer. This must be a serious menace to the health of pupils and teachers, but it appears to cause little anxiety to many managers and teachers."

If that represents the agreed view of the Minister's inspectors, it discloses a serious state of affairs. Here we have definte statements of inspectors, apparently endorsed by the Minister, that the condition of the out-offices is a serious menace to the health of the pupils and teachers, but that the managers and teachers appear to display little anxiety. If we take these three statements together: (1) that there is a large number of insanitary schoolhouses, (2) that many managers appear to view with indifference the condition of school buildings under their care, and (3) that the condition of out-offices attached to many schools is such that it constitutes a serious menace to the health of both pupils and teachers, and that the managers appear to display little anxiety—we get a picture of national schools that must make disturbing reading for the parents of children attending those schools. These statements taken together show that not only are many schools structurally defective but many are insanitary, and not only are they insanitary from a structural point of view, but they are permitted to remain in an insanitary condition and that managers appear to display little anxiety to remove the causes of these defects.

I would have thought that having committed himself to the disclosure of that serious state of affairs, the Minister in the next paragraph would have told us what the Department proposes to do to make managers display more care for the cleaning, maintenance and improvement of their schools and I was hoping we would have it from the Minister what he proposed to do to require managers to remove these menaces to the health of pupils and teachers caused by reason of the fact that out-offices are not kept in proper condition. Instead of that, the Minister has ridden away completely from any remedy for that condition of affairs. I think the statements made by the Minister are much too serious to be ignored. There is an obligation on the Minister, who is responsible for national school education, to tell the parents of the country what he proposes to do to ensure that managers will be compelled to face up to the responsibilities of removing the admittedly serious menace to the health of pupils and teachers, and I think we are also entitled to know what the Department proposes to do to deal with the cases of managers who, according to the Minister, appear to view with indifference the condition of the school buildings under their care. After all, managership of a school is not a light privilege. It imposes a heavy responsibility on those placed in that position and if we have from the Minister a declaration that managers are quite indifferent to the serious menace to the health of pupils and teachers we ought to have some proposals to deal with managers who are not willing to face up to their responsibilities in that respect. One suggestion might be that he should send a copy of this speech to all the managers with its apparently well-merited castigation set out in red type or gold type so that these managers at all events might be aware of the fact that the Minister regards their indifference as meriting severe castigation, but if it is not possible to induce managers to put their schools in such a condition as to remove a menace to health as far as pupils and teachers are concerned, the Minister ought to tell the House what the Government's proposals are for dealing with that. Obviously, he cannot contemplate that they should continue to have their health exposed to the condition of affairs which he rightly condemns, if he is not satisfied to remain in a state of complete impotence in the face of the situation disclosed in his statement. This admission imposes on him a very serious obligation, the obligation of making sure that the menace to the health of the pupils and teachers is removed, because after all the health of one single child is more important than all the dignity displayed by any manager. He ought to make sure that want of energy on the part of the Department of Education cannot be taken as an excuse and that all the necessary steps will be taken to bring to their senses those responsible for neglecting the welfare and the health of children.

I do not say that this statement can be made about all managers, many of whom are only anxious to improve their schools, but now that the Minister has discovered these grave facts and having informed the community of their existence, will he now tell the House what the Government's proposals are for dealing with the serious situation disclosed in his speech?

Isé an sceál is dona i dtaobh na Gaedhilge an chailleamhaint eolais tar éis tréigint na scol. Cailleamhaint mhor iseadh é sin agus ní mór é do leigheas. Maidir leis na scoileanna oidhche, buadh mór iad do dhaoine d'fhág na scoileanna ró-óg mar nílíd ion-ghlachtha sna ceárd-scoileanna de bhrí ná fuil oileamhaint maith go leor ortha.

Ní dóich liomsa go bhfuil aon leigheas ar an scéal ach múinteoirí taistil a chur ag obair arís fé mar a dhein Connradh na Gaedhilge na blianta ó shoin. Ní leor na scoileanna Gairm-oidis mar nílid seo le fáil ach amháin ins na bailtí agus sna cathracha. Ní theidheann thar 5% de leanbhai go mean scoileanna na thar 10% diobh ar na gairm-scoileanna.

Táim ar aon intinn leis an méid adubhairt an Teachta Norton, i dtaobh na múinteoirí atá i mbaol a mbriste cheal tinnrimh. Tá a lán múinteoirí ar fud na tíre agus tá an scéal go dona acu mar gheall air seo. B'fhéidir nach bhfuil an scéal chó holc sna bailtí móra agus sna cathracha ach, do réir mar atá na páistí ag teacht isteach ins na scoileanna seo ó'n dtuaith, tá an tinnreamh ag laghdú 'sna scoileanna ar an dtuaith.

Rinne an Teachta Risteárd Ua Maolchatha tagairt do sna ranganna móra sna scoileanna Gaedhilge, 'sa chathair. Tá an sceál níos measa i bhfad sna gnáth-scoileanna. Sean-sceál 'seadh é sin gan amhras——

Dá dheacra é rang mar sin do theagasc tré Bhearla, ná fuil sé níos deacra rang mór mar sin do theagasc tré Ghaoluinn?

Aontuím leat.

Má tá an tAire dáiríribh mar gheall ar aithbheóchaint na Gaedhilge ní ceart níos mó ná 50 scoláirí do bheith san aon rang amháin. Chun go gcuirfeadh an múinteoir suim cheart san obair ba chóir an bhuidhean atá fé n-a chúram do bheith níos lugha ná caogad.

Táimíd ag dul chun cinn ar an gceist sin. Ba mhaith liom tagairt do dhéanamh do sna múinteoirí atá oilte agus atá ar cheal oibre. Ba mhaith an rud dá dtiocfadh leis an Aire na múinteoirí seo do chur ag obair. Is oth liom nár dhein an tAire aon tagairt don ghearradh atá déanta ar thuarastal na múinteoirí náisiúnta. Do bhí súil agam go ndéanfaí athrú ar an acéal i mbliana ach níor thug an tAire aon dóchas dúinn. Ní dóigh liom gur ceart sin. Má tá an sceál i gceart ag an Aire Airgid mar a deir sé maidir leis an Budget, ba cheart cothrom do thabhairt do sna múinteoirí.

Maidir leis na tithe scoile, tá siad go dona. Táthar i gcomhnuí ag gearán mar gheall ortha ach ní féidir an iomarca gearáin do dhéanamh. Níl a leithéid seo de sceál in aon tír sa domhan. Sna Bun-Scoileanna ar an dtuaith, is éigin do sna scoláirí na hurláir do sguabadh amach um thráthnóna. Ní ceart an dualgas san do chur ar na páistí agus ba cheart na scoileanna do ghlanadh ar shlighe éigin eile.

Tá a lán daoine ag gearán i dtaobh a leadaránaí a théigheann Oifig an Oideachais i mbun a cuid oibre. Is an-deachair do Chumann na Múinteoirí agus do bhainisteoirí agus daoine eile freagra d'fháil uatha. Chuaidh toscaireacht go dtí an tAire le déanaí ar cheist an tinnrimh ach nior tháinig aon toradh as go fóill. Níl fhios agam cén fáth go bhfuil an scéal mar seo. Nuair a pléidhtear cúis os cóir an Aire, shaoilfeá go mbeadh an Aireacht in ndon a haigne do dhéanamh suas agus freagra éigin do thabhairt ag diultiú nó ag glacadh leis an iarratas, ach ní cuirtear freagra amach chor a bith. Tá a lán daoine mí-shásta leis sin.

Tá rud eile gur mhaith liom tagairt do dhéanamh dó. Tá eolas agam i dtaobh múinteoir i gConnamara agus gidh nách bhfuil curtha ina leith ach rudaí beaga súaracha, ní bhfuair sé aon airgead ar feadh i bhfad. An bhliain seo thart bhí fear eile ná fuair aon airgead ar feadh trí míosa. Bhfuil aon chrios tamhlacht in a leithéid sin de rud? An cóir múinteoir d'fhágáil gan pingin ó mhí Deire Fómhair?

Tá gá mór le páirceanna imeartha in aice leis na scoileanna 'san dtuaith. I gCondae na Midhe, i gCondae Thiobraid Árann agus i gCondae na Gaillimhe, tá a lán scoileanna gan faithche, gidh nach bhfuil aon ghanntanas talaimh ann.

Tá an talamh ró-luachmhar.

Sean-sceál 'seadh é sin, ach ní bhfuarthas aon leigheas air go fóill. Do chuir an tAire Coimisiún ar bun chun béal-oideas do mheas agus do chur ar fáil. 'Sé an gearán atá agam fén gCoimisiún sin ná fuil ach fíor-bheagán de Ghaelgeóirí dúthchais ar an gCoimisiún sin. Níl aon ghearán agan fé dhúine ar bith atá ar an gCoimisiún ach is truagh ná fuil níos mó de sna cainnteóirí dúchchais air.

Do hiarradh orm labhairt ar cheist an Ghúim. Cuireann daoine scríbhinní chun lucht an Ghúim agus bíd anamhall ar fad ag cur in úil an bhfuiltear ag glacadh leo nó ná fuiltear. Tá fhios agam gur chuir Carl Hardebeck ceol isteach agus níl aon tuairisg le fáil fós an bhfuil siad ag glacadh leis nó ná fuil.

Maidir leis na cigirí, tá daoine ag gearán ná fuil seans á thabhairt d'oidí scoile bheith in a gcigirí. Níl an sceál chó hole agus do bhí ach níl an méid oidí dá thoghadh mar chigirí agus ba chóir. Aontuim leis an méid adubhairt an Teachta Norton mar gheall ar na múinteoirí d'eirigh as sar ar socruíodh ceist na bpinsean. Níor thug an tAire aon gheallúint dúinn, ach dubhairt sé go bhféachfadh sé isteach sa scéal. B'fhéidir go raibh an Roinn Airgid ina aghaidh. Tá na daoine seo i gcruadhchás agus níl aon teacht isteach acu. Bá chóir cuidiú leo agus iarraim ar an Aire rud éigin do dhéanamh ar a son.

Rinne an Teachta Norton tagairt do cheist díola tuarastail na múinnteoirí. Bhí fiosrúcháin ag an Roinn mar gheall ar an gceist seo. 'Sé mo thuairim go mba cheart glacadh le moladh na múinteoirí.

Cuireadh Coiste ar bun chun ceist leabhar scoile saora do bhreithniú ach níl fhios agam cad a thárla. Ní raibh aon eolas le fáil ón Roinn nó ó oifige an Aire. Tá daoine ar lorg eolais agus níl fhios acu an bhfuil an Roinn sásta cuidiú leis na páistí bochta nó nach bhfuil. 'Sé mo thuairim go mba cheart cuidiú leo. Bíonn ar pháistí ocht scillinge d'ioc as leabhair go minic. Ní thuigim cén fáth nach dtabharfaí leabhair in aisce do sna páistí bochta. Nuair do cuireadh an fiosrúchán seo ar bun, do cheapamair go ndéanfaí rud éigin ar son na bpáistí seo ach nior deineadh.

Tá an tAcht um Freastal Scoile nach mór ar ceal i mBaile-atha-Cliath. Cuirtear isteach leith-scéala de gach uile shórt agus ní féidir don dlí aon mhaitheas do dhéanamh. Do labhair an tAire mar gheall ar cheist an aois scoile. Tá fhios agam conas mar atá an sceál i mBaile Atha Cliath. Tá gach scoil lán go béal an dorais agus dá gcuirfí an t-ordú so i bhfeidhm bheadh rí-rá mar gheall ar an scéál. Tá áiteanna fén dtuaith ina bhfuil na scoileanna beagnach follamh agus b'fhéidir go mbeadh an tAire i ndon an t-ordu do chur i bhfeidhm annsin ach ní dóigh liom gur féidir é do chur i bhfeidhm i mBaile Atha Cliath.

I have a very considerable feeling of diffidence in taking part in a discussion on the Education Estimate. There are, however, three or four points on which I wish to make a few remarks even at the risk of exposing my ignorance of educational matters. Deputy Cormac Walsh has just referred to the question of providing school books free for children attending primary schools. That is a matter on which he or the Executive will have the entire support on this side of the House if any proposition is made to give effect to the proposal. It is well known that considerable hardship has been caused to children of poor parents and even of parents who are not poor, comparatively speaking, by reason of the necessity imposed upon them of providing their children with comparatively expensive school books. From what I have heard, the necessity for providing books for the children—exercise books and textbooks—is one which plays considerable havoc with the finances of the workingclass family. Not only does it do that but it sometimes plays havoc with the happiness of the children and interferes with their proper education. I have been informed—I make this statement on information supplied to me without having verified it—that children, if they have not the necessary text-books required from day to day, get into trouble in school and very frequently are sent home and not allowed to attend without bringing the necessary books or money for the books. We think that this has become a national matter now. We think that the Government ought to provide all school books for children of the working classes, particularly. We urge upon the Government, as Deputy Walsh has urged upon them, the necessity for dealing with this matter. I understand that some sort of committee was set up to deal with this question. I had not heard of that committee until Deputy Walsh mentioned it and I should like to hear what the result of the committee's investigation was. This would cost a considerable amount to the Exchequer every year but the results would repay the expenditure. Under our Constitution, it is the right of every citizen to have free elementary education. There is no use in providing him with a written guarantee unless the means by which that elementary education can be adequately acquired are also provided by the State. The provision of schools and teachers is one method by which that Constitutional right is implemented but if the children cannot get the books or can only get them in a way in which they are of no effective use to them, then that Constitutional right has little practical effect. That matter, I think, ought to receive the urgent attention of the Minister. While we are speaking of school books, it may be relevant to consider what is the subject matter of the books which are used as texts for children in the schools of the Irish Free State.

I admit that I am not very familiar with that but I think anything in the nature of Party propaganda should be rigorously excluded from any such textbooks. I have seen one or two of them myself which went perilously close to the mark and I have been told that one of them dealt with such a controversial subject as the land annuities. I say that anything savouring of political propaganda ought not to be introduced or mentioned in the schools and ought not to be countenanced or be part of the policy of any Minister for Education no matter what his political affiliations may be. It should be the duty of a Minister for Education to see that the fundamental duties and the civic rights ought to be inculcated into the children. We take the view and we suggest to the Government that it ought to be one of the subjects taught in the schools—the inculcation of proper appreciation not merely of the rights of citizens in this State but of their duties towards the State. The time is not merely ripe, it is over-ripe, when the young people coming along should be given some fundamental idea of their duties as citizens in this State and such education if it is properly disseminated through the schools will be very advantageous in future years to this State. It should be possible, and we would expect through that means to get respect for the law and appreciation of the law. We have had 12 years' experience of our own Governments in this country. People have had the experience of two different political Parties governing the country and the young people who are now coming along have no way of learning anything of the science of politics or the duties of citizens other than what they may learn from political propaganda on either side. If politics in its proper sense as a science or art of government were taught in the secondary schools and if in the primary schools even some elementary instruction were given in the duties of citizenship I think we could look forward to a future where we would have material from which the ultimate rulers of this country could be drawn with safety. It is not because a person happens to have a glib tongue that he is necessarily the best statesman. Any science or art or craft requires careful education and teaching and the only art or craft, if you may call it such, which gets very little consideration in this country at the moment, so far as I can learn, in the educational curriculum, is this science or art of politics. The future of the people, their livelihood and welfare, depend upon the proper kind of Government and people cannot be governed properly unless their rulers are drawn from people who understand the science of government. That science or art or craft should be inculcated in the primary schools. From that it should be developed in the secondary schools and continue right on into the universities.

Deputy Breathnach raised the question of the school-leaving age and we on this side of the House favour the raising of the school age for reasons which it is not necessary for me to go into now. It appears from a statement in the Irish Press last January that some sort of inter-departmental committee was set up to consider that question, and from the statement which appeared in the Irish Press on January 10th of this year, it appears that an official of the Department told an Irish Press reporter that the school-leaving age question had been receiving the attention of the Department for a long time past and that the report should be in the Minister's hands at the end of the month. We would like to know if the report has reached the Minister, and, if so, what does he intend to do in connection with that important matter. In the Minister's general statement he made casual reference to the Metropolitan School of Art. It is not perhaps relevant on this particular Vote to consider the broad points raised by that reference. I think that one of the other sub-heads would be a more proper place on which to raise the question. So far as I can see he merely referred to the School of Art as such. I may have misread his statement, but I gathered that he made no reference and has given no consideration to the question of teaching art in the schools. On another sub-head of this Vote I intend to say a few words on the importance, and the urgent necessity, even from an economic point of view, of developing such native talent as we have here with a view to its subsequent application to industry. In this connection the Minister apparently has said nothing of the teaching of art in the primary or secondary schools.

The next point I wish to direct attention to is one of the most serious problems that exist in this country and that any Minister or Government will in the future have to face, and that is as to how the children who are leaving school are to be helped towards providing themselves with positions. We have, each year, leaving the primary and secondary schools, an increasing number of children well taught and well educated, and when they leave school they have no more idea of what they are going to be or of what their future will be than when they entered the schools, and the result is that there are thrown on the market in increasing numbers each year young men and women who form very good material from the point of view of future citizens in this State, honest, upright, intelligent young men and women. For a long time they are left wandering the streets without any idea of how to earn their living, without anyone to help or assist them in looking for positions, and these young people, unless they get positions, will become material for anti-State organisations to gather and mould them to their unlawful ends. I think it will be a good thing for any Government irrespective of Party considerations to consider that problem as one of the most vital and urgent problems existing in this country at the moment. I am sure that Deputies of the House have several visits from young men such as these products of our educational system. I know I have had them. Some of them may have attended vocational education classes and equipped themselves with more education—but so far as I can see most of the vocational schools are merely a place for marking time until the pupils get positions—but they are in the same position as before. When they leave the vocational education schools they do not know what positions they want to fill and have no clear idea about their future. On the subject of Irish I speak with diffidence although it is a subject on which I feel a little. It may be heresy to say it, but I must express my opinion that I think that the experiment—for it is only an experiment—of teaching Irish and other subjects in the schools through the medium of Irish is a very dangerous experiment from the point of view of the future of the language.

I am open to conviction that it is the best method by which the language can be preserved. I have the opinion myself—an opinion which does not amount to conviction, but which is, nevertheless, an opinion—that the best interests of the language are not served by this intensive method of teaching other subjects, French, Mathematics, Greek, German or anything else, through the medium of Irish. There are not sufficient facilities for doing so. The people who are engaged in the teaching are not, in my view, without saying anything derogatory to their talents or capacities, sufficiently expert in both subjects to give of their best from both points of view. You may have an exceedingly good Irish teacher, who is a very good Irish scholar, but whose knowledge of mathematics is not, to say the least of it, as good as his knowledge of Irish. He would be teaching mathematics through the medium of Irish to some young child whose mind is thinking half in Irish and half in English, and the result may be that that young child will know neither Irish nor English nor mathematics. There are many of those at the present moment in this city.

The accusation may be hurled at me that I am speaking inimically to the Irish language. I am not; I am speaking with a conviction of the necessity for the preservation of the Irish language, and speaking with some experience—not a whole lot, but a little. I should like to hear from the Minister an impartial account—not an enthusiastic account—of the result of the experimental teaching of other subjects than Irish through the medium of Irish. It is a topic which, I think, should be discussed on its merits. I can imagine Irish language enthusiasts leaping to their feet with indignation at the mere suggestion that the proper method of preserving the Irish language, developing it, and making it a more living force than it is at the present moment, is not by teaching other subjects through the medium of the Irish language. I do not want the opinion of those people who are so zealous about the Irish language that they think anybody who criticises the methods through which efforts are being made to resuscitate it is saying something which is against the Irish language. I think the matter should be considered very seriously indeed. I know that there are fanatics —again I am not using that word in a derogatory sense—as regards Irish, who think that the only method of disseminating the Irish language and making it a living force in this country is by putting it in overdoses down the necks of the young children. Personally, I think—again it is an opinion, not amounting, but very nearly amounting, to a conviction—that that would result in killing the Irish language.

Does the Deputy know how English was forced down their necks?

I think the Deputy's observation is an entirely irrelevant one. If English was put down the necks of the people they were very avid in swallowing it. I will give him my own experience in the matter. When I made an effort to learn Irish in the Aran Islands, the one thing which the natives of the Aran Islands were quite determined upon was that whether I learned Irish or whether I did not, they were going to learn English from me. They were very much more concerned with picking up little scraps of English and getting me to talk English to them than they were about speaking Irish to me. I think that observation on the part of the Deputy is entirely irrelevant. I am putting it as a problem to be faced, not in reference to the sort of idea which is at the back of the Deputy's head about the past, but as to whether this is the proper method— everybody being agreed that the Irish language must be preserved and developed—and as to whether more harm will not be done through this method than through a little slowing down and a little less anxiety to teach other subjects than Irish through the medium of Irish.

The last observation I have to make is this: In the course of the development of the methods of teaching Irish there have been many casualties, among the secondary teachers in particular. Those are people who have got no consideration from anybody. They are people who were educated at a period when the Irish language was only—if I may put it that way— in the O'Growney stage, and the Gaelic League was in its infancy for some years afterwards. They had only, perhaps, learned sufficient Irish through the Gaelic League courses or the first, second and third books of O'Growney. Those people qualified themselves for the teaching profession with the facilities which they had in pre-war days in this country. At its best the secondary teachers' profession is the most hazardous profession there is in this country. The secondary teachers appear to be nobody's children. Now that the policy of teaching other subjects through the medium of Irish is being pushed very rapidly ahead the result is that those people are being dismissed from their posts, and there is no possibility of their getting any employment in this country. I suppose the people affected in that way would be regarded merely as casualties in the march of progress, but they deserve a little consideration, and I would earnestly recommend the Minister for Education to take into account those casualties of the Irish language development. There are not very many of them; they appear as I said to be nobody's children, and I think they are worthy of some consideration by the Minister.

A Leas-Chinn Chomhairle, is é seo an t-aon uair amháin i rith na bliana go ndeintear aon chur síos sa Dáil ar chúrsaí na teangan náisiúnta. An Teachta atá díreach tar éis labhartha bhí sé ag cur agus ag cúiteamh i dtaobh gné de cheist na teangan atá seana-phléidhte, sé sin ábhair eile a mhúineadh tríd an nGaedhilg. Ba dhóich le h-éinne go mbeadh deire um an dtaca so leis an rírá a bhíodh ar siul faoi'n gceist sin, go raibh sé socair, ach do réir deabhraimh, tá daoine ann fós ná fuil aon tuisgint cheart acu ina taobh. Tá a fhios ag an saol gur gá d'aon mhúinteoir a thugann fé aon rud a mhúineadh tré Ghaedhilg —nó tré aon teangain eile—an teanga san a bheith aige go maith agus go líomhtha agus eolas maith aige ar an ábhar atá le múineadh aige freisin. Mara mbeidh san amhlaidh déanfar díobháil, gan amhras, ach ní dóich liom féin go gcuirtear d'fhiachaibh ar mhúinteoirí ná fuil eolas maith ar an nGaedhilg acu ábhair eile scoile a mhúineadh tríthi.

Sílim go bhfuil furmhór mór Teachtaí na Dála seo ar aon aigne faoi cheist na Gaedhilge, go mba chóir don Dáil pé cabhair agus pé comhairle is féidir leo a thabhairt don Aire agus do Roinn an Oideachais i dtaobh conus is fearr an obair mhór náisiúnta seo a chur chun cinn. Táim ar aon aigne le cuid mhór dá ndubhairt an Teachta Risteárd O Maolchatha faoi na Scoileanna Gaedhealacha, go bhfuil dian-ghá le breis scol den tsaghas san agus éileamh ortha, ní hamháin i mBaile Atha Cliath ach i gcathracha agus i mbailtí móra eile chó maith. Ní aontuím, ámh, gur gá mór-chuid airgid a chaitheamh chun scoileanna fé leith a chur suas fé mar a mhol an Teachta O Maolchatha do réir mar a thuigeas é. Sílim go mba cheart tosnú leis na scoileanna atá ann cheana agus iad a Ghaedhalú amuich is amach i ndiaidh a chéile. Sílim freisin go bhfuil mórán scol anso agus ansúd ar fud na tíre go bhféadhfaí iad a Ghaedhealú ar fad gan mórán duaidh. Creidim go láidir—agus dubhart an méid seo go minic cheana—go mba cheart go mbeadh sé de chuspóir ag an Roinn Oideachais an Béarla do chur as na scoileanna ar fad i ndiaidh a chéile. Faid a bheidh an dá theangain ann beid ag comórtas le chéile agus buadhfaidh teanga acu ar an dteangain eile. Tá uainne anso is dóich liom, agus o mhuintir na h-Eireann, an Ghaedhilg a chur in uachtar agus níl ach an t-aon ghléas amháin chun é sin a dhéanamh sa deire, sé sin, an Béarla a chur as an slí ar fad.

Tuigim go maith chó deacair is chó mór is chó trom is atá an obair seo. Bíonn an tAire ag gearán go minic ná cabhruionn an pobal i gcoitchinne leis an obair fé mar ba cheart. Tá a fhios agam san go dian-mhaith ón dtaithí atá agam féin ar obair na teangan. Tuigim go maith chó deacair is atá sé an pobal a ghríosadh chun aon tsuim cheart a chur in aithbheóchaint na Gaedhilge. Sílim go mborrfar suim an phobail go mór do réir mar a cuirfear níos mó scol Gaedhealach ag obair. Is iongantach an mhaitheas atá déanta cheana ag na scoileanna Gaedhealacha atá againn. Na scoláirí atá ag freastal ortha tá taithí acu anois ar Ghaedhilg a labhairt le chéile i gcomhnaí, ag dul ar scoil, ag teacht abhaile, ag súgradh nuair a castar ar a chéile ar an sráid iad, nuair a bhíd le chéile sa bhaile. Níl aon rud is mó a raghadh i bhfeidhm ar an bpobal agus ar thuismitheoirí na leanbh ná bheith ag éisteach leis an aos óg ag spreagadh Gaedhilge i gcomhnaí. Sé seo an meastachán is tábhachtaighe cuirtear os ár gcomhair anso. Molann an t-Aire go mór i dtaobh an meastachán a chur os ár gcomhair i nGaedhilg. Is fíor-bheag an méid Gaedhilge a chloisimíd sa Dáil seo cé go bhfuil cuid mhaith Gaedhilgeoirí imeasc na dTeachtaí. Labhraid na Teachtaí sin go minic ach is i mBéarla a labhraid i gcomhnaí. Tá ár gcion féin le déanamh againne, Teachtaí Dála, chun a dheimhniú don phobal go bhfuilimíd dáiribh agus dá bhrí sin deirim gur mór an truagh ná cloistear glór na Gaedhilge i bhfad níos minicighe annso. Molaim an tAire arís i dtaobh labhairt i nGaedhilg amháin ar an meastachán so agus i dtaobh chó dúthrachtach díograiseach is atá sé i gcomhnaí ad' iarraidh "Eire Saor Gaedhealach" a bhaint amach.

Má tá dadaidh le rádh agam ar an Mheasteachán so is mar Theachta as an Ghaeltacht é Caithfe mé moladh a thabhairt don Aire as an suim mhór atá sé ag cur i ngnaithe oideachais ins an Ghaeltacht. Ba mhaith an rud é dá dtiocfadh linn an rud céanna a rádh fá gach Roinn eile faoi'n Rialtas acht faraoir, ní féidir sin. Beidh beannacht muinntir na Gaeltachta go deó leis an té a chuir na Coláistí Ullmhúcháin ar bun. Uuair nach dtig le haos óg na Gaeltachta imeacht go Meireocá no áit ar bith eile, gheibh mórán aca caoi ar dhul isteach ins na Coláistí Ullmhúcháin mar ábhar múinteoirí scoile. Agus nuair atá duine as teaghlach san Ghaeltacht ina mhúinteóir scoile níl caill ar bith ar an teaglach sin. Táthar ag gearán go bhfuil barraidhacht aca ag dul 'un tosaigh as an Ghaeltacht, ach deirim-se gur maith an rud don tír go bhfuil na buachaillí agus na cailíní seo le fáil. Gan iad ní thiocfadh linn an Ghaedhlic cheart nádúrtha a scaipeadh a choíche fríd an chuid eile den tír.

Deirim gur maith an airidhe ortha na háiteacha so fháil. Chidh Dia gur fágadh ro-fhada iad ar an chaol-chuid i ngnaithe oideachais agus is mithid go bhfuigheadh siad cothrom na Féinne anois. Beidh toradh na scéime seo le feiceál go soiléir againn uillig i gceann cúpla bliain eile nuair a bhéas na céadta múinteoiri óga—cainnteoiri dúthchais ón Ghaeltacht—ag teagasc san Ghalltacht.

Siad san a bhéarfas an teanga do na páisdí go réidh, go líomhtha agus go nádúrtha. Dubhairt cuid de na cainnteoirí nach rabh an Ghaedhlic ag dul ar aghaidh mar ba chóir ins na scoltacha. Más amhlaidh atá déarfainn gur barraidheacht ádhbhar léighinn atá ar an chlár is cionntach leis seo.

D'fhéadfaí cuid de na hádhbhair léighinn d'fhágáil i leath-taoibh agus ní bheadh na páistí a dhath níos measa. Is mór an mhaith a rinne deóntas an dá phunt anuiridh agus tá súil agam go leanfar do sa Ghaeltacht. Tá aithreacha agur máithreacha ag cleachtú Gaedhilice le na gclainn anois sa Bhreac-Ghaeltacht nár smuain air ariamh roimhe. Tá mé ag iarraidh ar an Aire arís caoi thabhairt don aos óg leabhraí a cheannacht níos saoire no faoi laicse. Níl mé ghá n-iarraidh i n-aisce ach is léir liom go bhfuil na leabhraí Gaedhilice lán-daor ag muinntir na Gaeltachta. Ba mhaith an rud fosta dá mbeadh sraith amháin leabhar ag na scolta a mhairfeadh seal blianta. Dhéanfadh na leabhraí céadna an mhuirghin amháin ó rang go rang agus ní bheadh an costas chó mór.

Tá mé ag cur i gcuimhne don Aire fosta go bhfuil na céadta scolta gan faithche imeartha ar bith agus anois, nuair atáthar ag roinn talaimh, ba chóir go leigheasfaí an neamart seo.

I will not keep the Minister very long. He has had a hard three hours but I notice, on going through the Estimates, that science, art and literature are to receive increased grants. That is a thoroughly good sign. I would rather see the money going that way than in other directions. I wish, however, to put before the Minister a plea for a grant-in-aid towards the purchase of pictures for the Municipal Gallery of Modern Art in the city. I have to make this plea because the Corporation which maintains the gallery has no power to make any grant whatever for the purchase of pictures and other works of art suitable for it. All the pictures and pieces of sculpture in the gallery are gifts and very often, from time to time, other gifts are received and it becomes a question of looking a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak. When it is a picture or a piece of sculpture, that is a very difficult job. You cannot tell a potential donor a lie and you cannot tell him the truth. In my experience for many years in the Dublin Corporation——

On a point of order, are we discussing Vote 45 or Vote 49?

Mr. Kelly

I am dealing with the Minister's Estimate. You have only just come into the House.

Has the Minister any control over the matter the Deputy is raising?

I do not think so.

I think the Deputy will have to reserve his remarks for another Estimate.

Mr. Kelly

But there is no Estimate that I know of which deals from the educational standpoint with art except the Minister's own Estimate. As a matter of fact, he will be moving the Estimate for the National Gallery himself.

What about Vote 49?

Mr. Kelly

I am able to manage myself.

I think the Deputy will get another opportunity to deal with this question.

Mr. Kelly

When?

That is not for the Chair to indicate.

Mr. Kelly

Last year I tried to raise a question on these Estimates. Where there are tons of money being dealt with it is very difficult to count it. I tried to raise various questions in connection with the Estimates last year——

Is the Deputy in order or is he not? There is no reason why Deputy Kelly should run amok any more than any other Deputy.

Mr. Kelly

That is a matter for the Chair. Deputy Kelly has not anything like the cheek the Deputy over there has.

We would get on a bit better if Deputy Kelly would sit down. We can only discuss on this Estimate matters for which the Minister is responsible. The Minister for Education has no responsibility for the matter Deputy Kelly is introducing. Deputy Kelly will have an opportunity of discussing that matter when the relevant Estimate comes up for consideration.

Mr. Kelly

That is what I would like to know, because in the Minister's Estimate it is distinctly stated that there is a grant of £1,000 towards the purchase of pictures for the National Gallery. The Minister will move that. I do not see how it is not relevant for me to urge that the Government should give a grant to another gallery that is doing splendid educational work. I do not know where I can raise that question.

It is not for the Chair to indicate to a Deputy where it is proper to raise any particular matter. If that was part of the duty of the Chair, the Chair would frequently find itself in difficulties. An opportunity will be afforded to the Deputy to raise the matter which he is now raising on another Vote.

Mr. Kelly

If this little conversation is reported in the Press it will do the gallery no harm, even if we do not get the money. Later on I shall try to get the money under some other Estimate.

Gearóid MacPartholáin

Ba mhaith liom cúpla focal a rá faoi staid na Gaedhilge sna scoilteacha. Tagann cigirí chuig na scoilteacha san Iarthar agus ní thuigeann na páistí iad. Ba mhaith an rud dá rachadh an tAire isteach san scéal sin. Sa bhFíor-Ghaeltacht tá sé ag milleadh an oideachais, agus sa bhreac-Ghaeltacht—áiteacha nach bhfuil an Ghaedhilg chó fluirseach ag na páistí—tá sé ag déanamh dochair d'fhoghluim na Gaedhilge.

Is í seo an chéad Mheastachán ina bhfuil tagairt don deontas de £2 atá ar fáil anois san Ghaeltacht. Ba mhaith liom a chur in úil don Aire chó sásta agus tá goil duine leis an scéim sin. Ní raibh aon scéim go dtí seo do thuill an méid molta agus do thuill an scéim sin. Tá sí molta ag gach uile dhuine, agus ba chóir áthas a bheith ar an Aire mar gheall uirthe.

There are one or two questions with reference to primary education that I raised last year and that I have raised at various times since to which I should like to refer. It seems to be extremely difficult to clear the real situation that obtains with reference to the Irish language in the primary schools in this country. The Minister states here that it is a gross misrepresentation to suggest that pressure is brought to bear on national teachers throughout the country to teach all subjects through the medium of Irish without sufficient consideration being given to the capacity of the children, and indeed, to the teachers themselves to carry on under that system. I want to make my position on that perfectly clear. My object is, in primary education in this country, to turn our people into a fully bilingual people who will be as conversant with the English and Irish languages as a Swiss child might be expected to be with French and German, or with the French and Italian languages as the case may be. At the present time we have a situation obtaining here in the City of Dublin where there is a large number of parents who are bringing up their children conversant with the Irish language, who have brought them up to school-going age as well able to speak Irish as they are able to speak English and who are anxious to find schools in the City of Dublin where they can send those children to get instruction through the medium of the Irish language.

Deputy Mulcahy for two hours dealt with this particular question. The Deputy came in a few minutes ago and he now raises the same question and will stump for two hours more on it. I submit he is not in order.

These parents——

I am not going to stick it any longer.

——are frequently informed that there is no accommodation available for the children. I can very well sympathise with the Minister's difficulty that to build schools as readily as they may be required in Dublin presents a serious problem, but I cannot help feeling that when the Minister allows difficulties of that character to prevent him from providing the accommodation that Irish-speaking children require he is not facing the problem in the right spirit and he is not recognising the value of the Irish-speaking infant child as an asset to the language movement.

We also have a situation whereunder a large number of schools in the Fior-Ghaeltacht at the present time are staffed by teachers who are not competent to teach through the medium of Irish and this at a time when teachers all over the Galltacht, where a word of Irish has not been in common use for 100 years, are having violent pressure brought upon them to teach English-speaking children through the medium of Irish. Surely, if the Minister means business there ought to be some means whereby he can secure within the next two years that every school in the Fior-Ghaeltacht to which children are going, who were born native speakers, will have teachers on the staff who can teach them through their own language. The Minister may say: "It is not my business to appoint teachers. It is the business of the managers." That may be the existing arrangement, but surely if the Minister goes down himself, if necessary, and sees the diocesan authorities in those districts —because I understand the Bishops are now the managers of the schools in their own dioceses—he can prevail upon them to co-operate with him in making the necessary staff changes in those schools so that the children will be afforded an opportunity of having education provided through the medium of the Irish language. If he does not do that, what is going to happen is that all those children who ought to be native speakers are going to become unfamiliar with the language in spite of the propaganda and by the time they reach the age of 14 they will regard the Irish language as somewhat inferior and beneath the attention of the teachers whom they were brought up to respect. I do not minimise the difficulty of securing Irish-speaking teachers for all these schools, but surely that is the one difficulty above all others that should be surmounted before we address ourselves to the other aspects of the task.

Now, we come to the schools in the Galltacht and I would wish my observations with reference to the Galltacht to be taken as referring to schools in the Breac-Ghaeltacht as well. I have touched on the situation that obtains in reference to the Irish-speaking parents who want Irish-speaking schools for their children and cannot get them. Now, you have the case of the English-speaking parents of the English-speaking children who are perfectly willing and even anxious that their children should become proficient in the Irish language, but whose prime concern is that their children will get that modicum of primary education that will fit them for the battle of life. Infant children going into these schools are addressed by the teachers in Irish, and for the first 12 months a futile attempt is made to practise the "modh direach" or teaching "through the medium" the infant children who do not understand a syllable that the teacher is saying to them. That has a doubly undesirable effect; one is that it perplexes the child and deprives it of that modicum of instruction that we might expect an infant to get in such a class. But it has this additional disadvantage that when the average infant child leaves the maternal surroundings of its own home for the first time we are to expect that there will be some considerable psychological strain upon it. It is bad enough for the teacher to try to accustom that child to the changed circumstances if she is allowed to use the language that the child understands, but if she is constrained to use a language that the child does not understand, when she is trying to secure the child's confidence, the effect on the nervous system of the average child will be extremely deleterious. Probably it will affect its health throughout its whole life, and over and above any other effect it may have on the child it will create in the minds of hundreds of people up and down the country the idea that Irish is a nuisance. I saw recently where a perfectly intelligent man on the Roscommon County Council got desperate and said that, in his opinion, as the father of a family, compulsory Irish meant compulsory ignorance. That man had no particular feeling against the Irish language. On the contrary, I believe that that man, if he would consider the question calmly would agree with me that it was eminently desirable that children should become proficient Irish speakers. But he was exasperated by the complaints of his children of the pressing on them of a language they did not understand, and of the undue proportion of time that was given to the teaching of Irish either directly or teaching by way of using it as the vehicle of other instruction. The burden of my complaint to the Minister throughout the whole of this period has been to pursue a policy that would secure cordial co-operation from the parents instead of pursuing a line of conduct that is putting people's backs up. We recognise that to restore the language is a formidable enterprise, and I consider it an enterprise of sufficient importance to justify the national education authorities in this country reconciling themselves to allow certain other subjects to go by the board altogether if that be necessary, in order to save the language in our time. Therefore, I suggest that the primary schools should address themselves to the task of providing children during their period there with the essentials of education, reading, writing, arithmetic and Irish, but being solicitous to ensure that the instruction in Irish would not deprive any child of the full advantages of the bread and butter subjects he has got to know if he has got to earn his living in the world.

I would be glad to see the age of attendance at the primary school reduced to 13 and a start made with the provision of free secondary education in this country such as obtains in every State of the United States of America. When a child had concluded his period in the primary school and had reached the age of 13 years I would compel him to go for one year at least to the higher school where the simple education in reading, writing, arithmetic and the adequate instruction in the Irish language which he had obtained in the primary school would be developed and extended. I would hope, in due time, a stage might be reached that all instruction would, if it were thought desirable, be given through the medium of the Irish language—and note we would then be providing instruction through the medium of the Irish language to children whom we were satisfied were furnished with an adequate knowledge of the language before we undertook this system of "modh direach." I would go a long way, if our finances would permit it, to make it possible for the parents in rural areas to leave their children at school until they were 16 years of age. But if they are going to leave their children until they are 16 years of age the programme must be of a more comprehensive character than the primary school would provide under the scheme I am suggesting to the Minister. What I would like to see is that all the children would be required to spend one year in a secondary school and be given the option of taking two years more, free, at the same secondary school if they wanted to take it. Later on, if circumstances permit it, we might compel them to take two years additional at the primary school and eventually make the school attendance age compulsory up to 16 years. At first we might be well content to raise it by one year's compulsory attendance in order to secure that the children would not chuck up their education at the end of the first period. Thus we would familiarise them with continuing their education if they desired to do so.

I do strongly urge on the Minister for Education to do certain things, first where he has English-speaking infants to give up the system of making Irish compulsory in the infant school. Secondly to simplify the programme in the national schools in the case of general subjects, and thus to provide children with an education in reading, writing and arithmetic and after that to give direct instruction in the Irish language. He will be amply justified in cutting down other subjects in order to make way for the Irish. He cannot provide an elaborate education giving the children a competent knowledge of Irish at the same time without creating pandemonium and ill-feeling throughout the country. Let the Minister for Education undertake a comparatively simple task and do it well, and if he does he will find that 90 per cent. of the discontent and adverse criticism of Irish that now manifests itself here and there throughout the country will disappear and he will get the cordial co-operation of parents, children and teachers. In that way we will make progress along the line of reviving the Irish language in the Gaeltacht. One thing the Minister ought to do in the Gaeltacht and that is to make up his mind that within two years every national school teacher there must be fully competent to teach Irish to the children through the medium of the Irish language.

I also think that there is great danger of our country sinking into a rut with regard to primary education. In other countries teachers have progressed beyond the limitations of the blackboard. Attempts have been made to make the schools attractive to the children and to teach them things through other than the sense of hearing. I put it to the Minister whether a modest start might not be made by providing educational films for use in schools; if need be films could be shown by means of travelling apparatus. I think Deputies will agree that what a child sees at the cinema show it will remember much more readily and effectively than what the same child reads in a school book. If we had a simple programme as regards geography and literature, the other things might be shed if more time was to be absorbed in the teaching of Irish.

I would ask the Minister to supplement the programme with good music. When I say good music I do not adopt the insular view so common in this country, that any music is good if it is dispensed by the fiddle, the harp, or the bagpipes. I would like to hear good German music, good Italian music or good Polish music, and, horror of horrors, I would even like to hear English music dispensed for the small children. If you familiarise small children with good music, the vast majority of them will retain that taste for the rest of their lives. But if they never hear anything but the tin-can variety of music which is available in the cinemas or from a dance band, then that becomes their standard for all time. I have no objection to people enjoying that sort of music if they wish, but it would be a useful educational development in this country if we could introduce good music through the schools. I believe that eventually it would turn out to be a success. I have every reason to hope that the people would appreciate that music. When one considers the advantages that have been conferred on the country through the Carnegie Libraries and the high standard of literature that is sought from these libraries in many parts of the country, one can readily understand how the introduction of good music would have a beneficial effect on the people of the country.

Before departing from the question of the primary schools there are two other matters to which I wish to refer. I urge the Minister before making any new departure in respect of central schools to consider that there are areas throughout the country where there are a comparatively large number of small and very inadequate schools. The Minister in his speech to-day referred to the Herculean effort he was making to bring all the schools up to the standard of sanitation and repair that he considers necessary. I suggest to him that when doing that work he ought to experiment in a few centres with the closing down of six or seven schools in a parish and erecting one large central school to be fed by bus services from the sites of the schools which he closed down. The Minister's answer to that is: "I am delighted to do it if I could get the co-operation of any school manager who will allow me to make the experiment in his parish."

If the Minister sits in his office in Hume Street or Marlborough Street and takes no active steps he will never get the co-operation of anybody. But if he believes in the scheme and exerts himself he will find at least one parish priest who will allow him to make that experiment. If needs be the Minister should say to the parish priest or manager: "Let me build this central school and close down the existing schools. Let me try it out for a year or two, on this understanding: that if at the end of a year or two you determine it is a failure in your parish, I will reopen the old schools and close this one down." That would be making an offer to the manager. The difficulty is that if you cannot get co-operation, you have to buy co-operation by making the proposition watertight for the reluctant party. We all know perfectly well when the Minister for Industry and Commerce wants anybody to start an experiment he first makes it watertight and he hedges that in with every safety that ingenuity can devise. That is because without these safeguards nobody will take up the experiment. I suggest to the Minister for Education that in this matter he should take a leaf out of the book of the Minister for Industry and Commerce. Unless he does he will never get an opportunity of doing what will revolutionise the whole educational life of this country. That is why I elaborated this matter last year when this Estimate was last before the House.

I see in sub-head C (9) that we are giving a bonus to the Gaeltacht children. Is there not something ludicrous about giving a bonus to the Gaeltacht children when many of these children are going to schools where the teacher cannot teach them the Irish language or certainly cannot use the Irish language as a medium of instruction? I can remember as a child that one of the strongest indictments we brought against the Board of Education was that they deliberately sent down English-speaking teachers to anglicise the Irish-speaking children in the Gaeltacht. We regarded that as a most monstrous thing—that teachers who did not know Irish should be sent down to teach the young children through the medium of a language they did not understand. To-day, after 13 years of an Irish Government, we have teachers trying to teach, through the medium of Irish, a language of which many of the teachers have not a good knowledge. The Minister responsible for the education of the country ought to take such steps as are necessary to make an end of that situation. It has been the custom on this Estimate that all the Votes or Estimates connected with education are debated together——

It has been agreed that the first four Votes, the Office of the Minister for Education, Primary, Secondary and Technical, should be debated together.

May we discuss the industrial schools also?

If the Deputy so desires.

I take it the Minister will find it more convenient to cover all the ground in the one debate. There are several matters in connection with industrial schools that I want to raise. I want now to speak on something that is nothing less than a great public scandal.

I have no desire to interrupt the Deputy in his valuable speech but I should like to point out to him that the whole matter of the industrial schools is under consideration at the present moment by a commission, and I would suggest to the Deputy that it would be more suitable to raise this matter at a later stage because it is probable that the commission will be dealing with some of these matters.

I quite recognise that there is a commission sitting before which I propose to give evidence next Monday. I do feel called upon now, however, to raise before the House and the public a matter which I regard to be a grave public scandal and which I do not believe has been remedied although I raised it in an oblique kind of way last year. My only object in raising the matter is to do away with evils to which, as I say, I have referred already, and that is to do away with the system that obtains in Summerhill.

As I understand the matter at present, the duty of dealing with juvenile delinquents is divided between the Department of Justice and the Department of Education. So far as I am aware, the procedure is that when the child is summoned and brought to court it is within the province of the district justice, and it is then open to the district justice, presiding over the children's court, to send the child on remand under the parents' custody, or to send him on remand to Summerhill, when the matter passes under the jurisdiction of the Minister for Education. I want the House to note carefully that the house of detention in Summerhill is under the jurisdiction of the Minister for Education. Now, that establishment serves more than one purpose. It serves not only as a place where a district justice may send a juvenile delinquent on remand, but also as a place where the district justice may send a juvenile delinquent if he believes that a moderate punishment is desirable and that the circumstances of the case do not demand the removal of the child to an industrial school. It also serves as a place—and I ask the House to note this particularly—where children may be sent on their way to an industrial school, or indeed to a reformatory in certain cases, and also as a kind of clearing house for children who are on their way to an industrial school consequent upon being committed thereto as a result of their failure to attend school and similar offences.

I submit to this House that if the State determines that it is desirable to remove a child from its family surroundings, it devolves upon the State to take every possible precaution— more than every reasonable precaution, but every possible precaution—to ensure that the surroundings into which it removes the child will approximate as closely as possible to the family surroundings from which the child has been taken. When I say that, I mean that no source of contamination should conceivably exist in surroundings to which a child of tender years is committed by the Government of this State. What are the facts? If a child of five years of age is taken up on the street for playing on the streets, and if the child has repeatedly offended in that connection, if the district justice has made up his mind that a rebuke from the bench or a reprimand from the child's parents is no longer effective, he may commit the child to a house of detention. If a child of five years of age is brought before the district justice, and if the justice, having heard the facts of the case, makes up his mind that he ought to inquire into all the circumstances, he may remand the child to the house of detention while he is pursuing those inquiries. When the child gets there, he finds an old Georgian house in a slum quarter of this city—Summerhill—flanked, if my memory serves me correctly, by tenement houses on both sides. After admission to this establishment the child is placed in a room about 30 feet by 20 feet, with as many other children as may happen to be in the house of detention at the same time. There is no attempt made to provide education, and, so far as I am aware, there is no attempt made to provide the children with occupation of any kind. There is no provision for exercise of any kind for the children except in the backyard, which is a confined and flagged space of about six times the space occupied by the table in the centre of this chamber. The children may be drilled there, and I believe they are drilled.

Let me be careful to say that no reflection whatever can be cast upon the staff of that establishment, who, I am satisfied, do all in their power, with the resources at their disposal, to provide for the comfort of the children. I may say also that I have no reason to believe that the food provided for the children is inadequate. So far as I am aware, however—and in this I am subject to correction—as the law stands at present, there is no statutory authority whereby any one of these children can hear Mass on Sunday if they are incarcerated there over the week-end, as they nearly always are, because the court sits on Friday and they have to remain in the house of detention, if they are remanded there, over the week-end. I understand that, in fact, the law is flouted to the extent that the custodian of the premises takes out such children as he can take out and as he can bring back without being observed, so that they may attend Mass. So far as I know, there is no provision whereby these children can attend Mass at all. I further understand that the Department of Finance makes no financial provision for the establishment of a chapel in the institution. Needless to say, the parochial clergy of the district in which the establishment is situated exert themselves to the utmost to provide everything necessary for the spiritual consolation of the children. I hold, however, that little children, taken for the first time from their homes, ought to have the same kind of provision made for their spiritual and material welfare as is made for adult people.

Will the Deputy inform me, for the good of the House, when there were children of four or five years of age in that establishment?

Yes, and two years.

I have given the Minister the date in a letter which I addressed to him and as a result of which he himself went to visit it.

I would rather that the Deputy would give the particulars here and now. I do not want him to refer to letters written to me. I wish he would inform the House when children of four and five years were kept in this establishment.

The Minister need not attempt to shake his gory locks at me. He is not going to disturb me.

I want the Deputy before he starts his sensational speeches to give a little evidence.

I wrote to the Minister and drew his attention to the facts as I knew them. He can refer to my letter and he will find the date and I will be bound by whatever date appears in that letter. I have not it before me now. The Minister remembers it and knows perfectly well that the facts I am stating are true.

I do not.

He knows perfectly well that children on their way to industrial schools, who have to pass through this city, are brought to that establishment and frequently spend a night or two days there. The Minister knows that children between two and three years have passed through that establishment.

I deny that statement and I object to the Deputy using the House for the publication of statements that are not true as far as I know.

The Chair has no power or right to require from any Deputy proof of statements made in the ordinary course of debate. It is not a function of the Chair to judge on questions of fact.

I know perfectly well that the facts I am stating are true and the Minister knows that I drew his attention to those facts more than 12 months ago.

That is not so.

Is it not true that I went to you in your own office?

Your statements are absolutely untrue.

Is it not true that I interviewed the Minister in his own office with reference to this particular question 18 months ago? Is it not true that consequent upon those representations the Minister went and inspected these premises? The Minister knows that it is perfectly true. He knows that the situation obtaining in this establishment is a situation which should not be allowed to obtain for one hour, much less for 12 months. I submit that where children between the ages of three and 14 are to be incarcerated, even for a limited period of time, the utmost possible circumspection should be exercised by the authorities to ensure that every precaution will be taken to protect those children from contamination.

The Minister made a bold bid to challenge that and to suggest that the allegations I made are unfounded. Will the Minister deny that while he was responsible for that establishment there were children of very tender years in that establishment at the same time as there were precocious children who had been removed there on remand charged with offences of a quite unusual and unnatural kind? Does he think it a suitable arrangement that children who are little more than infants, on their way to industrial schools as a result of poverty or destitution, should be fortuitously brought into association with unfortunate psychopathic cases of that character?

I have no desire to go any further in the description of the situation that obtains in that establishment than would be necessary to secure the minimum of reform that propriety demands. I resent the suggestion made by the Minister that any allegation I have made in this House is untrue. I know that in that place of detention, in the company of, I think, 12 other children, there was at least one child who was a baby running about holding his brother's hand and, to the best of my recollection and belief, that child was not over four years of age and was there on its way to an industrial school as an orphan child. Let the House not be deceived by the Minister's interjection into the belief that I came here immediately to create a great scandal. I did nothing of the kind. I went straight to the Minister's office 18 months ago and I spoke to him privately and never referred to the situation in public. Consequent upon that visit he did not seem to me to take as grave a view of the situation as I did; but shortly afterwards he announced that he was going to set up a Commission. That Commission is at present sitting, but, in my opinion, the Minister for Education does not discharge his responsibilities to these children by setting up a Commission to inquire into a state of affairs that he can satisfy himself about any day he chooses to go to Summerhill; nor does he discharge his responsibility about a state of affairs which he ought to remedy the moment it is brought under his notice.

I say that these children should be provided—(1) with the attention of a highly qualified superintendent; (2) with a properly qualified matron, who would provide the maternal atmosphere and the solicitous care that children of tender years are entitled to when taken from home for the first time in their lives. Thirdly, I say that immediate steps should be taken to provide the necessary finance to secure the services of a chaplain to attend the children spiritually during the period of their incareeration there, or as they pass through. Fourthly, although I fully recognise that the educational value of any instruction during the short period of a child's sojourn there can be of very little permanent value, I am satisfied that when small children are gathered together in a group there, through the long day, some educational activity should be provided for them, more to provide them with peace of mind and occupation than to leave a permanent educational impress on their minds. Fifthly, I hold that any establishment of that kind should be of a size wherein full segregation of the different types of children who have to pass through it should be enforced.

I need hardly tell the House that this establishment is exclusively employed for the temporary detention of small boys. Provision is made for girls in some industrial school in the city which has an annexe for that purpose. I need not tell the House that as between one small boy and another there may be a very great difference and that when dealing with children of 13 or 14 years of age taken up from the streets you may find yourself confronted with a type of aberration which disqualifies a child from proper association with other innocent children of a similar age. Adequate provision should be made for that without regard to cost. It is to me something absolutely nauseating and horrifying that a question of money could justify the maintenance of an establishment for the children of the poor into which we would not allow our own children to be put. After all, if the child of a poor person, by its surroundings, or by other circumstances, is led into a misdemeanour which requires stern correction, the circumstances under which that correction should be administered by the State should not differ in any sense as a result of the parentage of the child. Any establishment set up for the correction of such children should have as a minimum standard of excellence such standard as would permit of the detention of the children of any of us within its confines. I do not think the Minister for Education, in his boldest moment, would suggest that any Deputy of this House would contemplate the incarceration or the detention of his child for one hour in the establishment which he provides at Summerhill for the detention of such juveniles as have to be detained on remand by the Children's Court on Friday morning.

I defer to the Minister's request to postpone general observations on the industrial schools until such time as the report of the Commission which is at present sitting reaches him. I trust that if and when that report is presented to him he will provide this House with an opportunity of discussing it, as I consider that a very wide reform is necessary if our system for the treatment of juvenile delinquents is to be brought on a level with the system which obtains in Great Britain and the United States of America. Pending that I submit to the Minister that the establishment known as the Summerhill House of Detention should be closed, and that steps should be taken to accommodate such children as would otherwise have gone there either with the Christian Brothers at Artane or with some other approved school, where he can be satisfied that the children will be looked after as the children of decent parents should be looked after in this country.

The Minister to conclude.

A Chinn Comhairle, this very important series of Estimates, which account for an expenditure of something like £4,750,000, seems to have given rise to a discussion on a rather lower level than one would have expected, but when we have Deputies in this House who seek to distinguish themselves as specialists on every single matter, and every single topic that comes up for discussion in the House, it is only natural that we should reach an unbelievably low level in our discussions. Deputy Dillon has wasted the time of the House for a considerable period in stating things which he stated at great length last year. I need not refer to the matters which he considers of importance as regards educational theory—the question of high schools in America, and so on. I do not propose to waste the time of the House dealing with that, but I will deal with the matter to which he has referred in particular, and that is the question of the Summerhill place of detention. In the first place the Deputy is not correct when he states that young children of four and five years are kept there. It may be that there have been very exceptional instances where such children have been kept there. I have asked the Deputy to furnish the House with examples of cases in which this has occurred during recent years, and he has failed to do so. The Deputy has been so carried away with the flow of his rhetoric and of his bombast that he has not even scrupled to tell us that children of two or three years have been kept there. The Deputy raised this whole question last year, and I dealt with it on that occasion, pointing out to the House that I had gone myself to the Summerhill place of detention, not so much in deference to the particular Deputy who made the complaint, but as head of the responsible Department. I found out there that the average period of detention was a week; that there were rarely more than seven children there—sometimes there was a less number—and that there were very few younger children there. I again say that the statement that children of four and five years have been there, except in extremely exceptional cases, is not correct.

The Deputy complained that this establishment is not kept in a proper way. If the Deputy went to the trouble of reading his last year's speech he would have discovered that he had asked the Minister for Education to form a small commission to deal with the whole question of industrial schools. The Minister did so, not again because Deputy Dillon asked for it, but because it had been in contemplation in the office for a considerable time. Certain improvements in industrial schools, which resulted in the giving of primary education to all the younger boys in those institutions, certain substantial improvements, on the educational side of those establishements, were made about the time I became Minister.

There was a question as to whether it would be necessary to have a commission to inquire into the matter. In view of the fact that the training of those boys and girls might be improved upon, and that the general organisation of the schools might be improved upon, the Commission was set up. As I stated in my speech, the Commission has not yet reported, and until it reports I do not intend to take any action in the matter. I am not aware that any particularly serious situation or any grave scandal such as Deputy Dillon tries to depict has arisen in connection with Summerhill. The Deputy has again drawn the same gloomy picture of this building which he drew last year. I invite Deputies who have any doubts about the building to visit it for themselves. I invite members of the public who are interested in the institution to study for themselves the conditions there.

Deputy Dillon also quoted a statement made by a follower of his Party, and member of that authority of which he himself is a member—the Roscommon County Council. He quoted for us the statement which this follower of his has made with reference to the present system of education— that it is driving the children into ignorance. The Deputy dwelt at great length on the "futility" of the system of teaching Irish to young children, and on the effect on the nervous system of the children. Just in the same way as he dealt with those strange psychopathic cases which he had heard of in the Summerhill house of detention—he must have been studying criminal literature—the Deputy went to great pains to tell us about the psychological effects of this policy. I should like to remind the Deputy—and also Deputy Costello, who seems to share his views with regard to this question of Irish— that this policy of Irish was not introduced by this Government. It was introduced by a Government of which Deputy Costello was the Attorney-General. Deputy Costello may have changed his views since then, in the same way as he seems to have changed his views about other matters. He tells us that we should not have propaganda in the schools. I should like to know where the propaganda comes in. Where are the examples of political propaganda in the schools? I have not heard of them. I have heard of children being told to wear blue shirts in the schools. I have heard Deputy Costello tell this House that where Hitler and Mussolini succeeded the Blueshirts were going to succeed. I am glad to see that Deputy Costello has now reached the stage where he is advising us that we should introduce civics into the schools: that we should introduce some system by which the children at an early age would be taught to have respect for law and order and so on. If the Deputy were serious on that matter, I would like to tell him that it is from example and from what the children see and hear, particularly in their own homes, rather than by formal teaching, that a proper civic spirit can be got in this country.

Deputy Dillon has wasted our time telling us that the policy which two successive Governments, representing the vast majority of the Irish people, have been implementing in regard to the restoration of Irish is all wrong. The Deputy in this, as in other matters, wants to go back to the philosophy of a former age. He wants to bring us back to the same epoch in educational matters that he would like to bring the country back to in the political arena. He tells us that we are all wrong and that we are making a terrible mistake. What a pity it is that Deputy Dillon was not consulted by the late Government when this programme was introduced in the schools in 1924? Had we had the benefit of the Deputy's advice on that occasion we could have seen the error of our ways. We would not have spent hundreds of thousands of pounds and ten years of our lives trying to resurrect the Irish language as well as wasting our time putting it into the Constitution as the national language, and pretending to ourselves that we were in earnest about it. We would have deferred, if we had a sufficiently strong body of opinion holding the same views as Deputy Dillon and in a position to influence Government policy, for ever the day on which the Irish language would come into the place that I believe the last Government, as well as this Government, intended: that is, that it should be a vernacular spoken language here.

How are we ever going to get to the stage when the professions as well as trade, commerce, industry, and all the great world outside are going to take it seriously if it is not going to be taken seriously enough to be considered as the medium for teaching subjects through? Besides, it has been found, both in our primary and in our secondary schools, that that can be done and done successfully. Deputy Dillon's follower in Roscommon, or any other parent, may have a grievance against an individual teacher or against an individual school, but if anybody thinks that the Irish language programme is putting an undue and unnecessary burden on poor people as against rich people, or on people in the rural areas as against people in the cities, I say that that is quite untrue. The poor man's child, the farmer's child and the labourer's child has as good a chance of learning Irish and, as Deputy Dillon himself admits, as good a chance of attending a good school and of having a good teacher to instruct him, as the child of the very rich parent.

The Deputy also produced a rabbit from his hat about the teachers in the Fior-Ghaeltacht who, apparently, are not capable of teaching Irish. If the Deputy had even an elementary knowledge of the situation, and was not speaking from the depths of his ignorance, he would know that a teacher is not permitted to teach in the Fior-Ghaeltacht, or in the Breac-Ghaeltacht unless he has the bi-lingual certificate, the only exceptions being the cases of teachers who were over a certain age in 1922. Even in these cases the teachers have to maintain a certain standard of efficiency, and if they fall below that standard they will soon come under the notice of the inspectors and, possibly, lose their positions. Yet, Deputy Dillon gets up and tells us that in the Fior-Ghaeltacht we have teachers who are not able, apparently, even to teach Irish, let alone teach through the medium of Irish. The Deputy did not know what he was talking about. He was simply carried away by the billowing flood of his eloquence regardless of the exaggeration or misrepresentation of which he might be guilty.

I said that I understood from the Minister that there were teachers in the Fior-Ghaeltacht at the present time who were not competent to teach through the medium of Irish. Is that true or is it not?

Deputy Mulcahy moved that this Vote be referred back for consideration. I thought that some really serious question was going to be raised, but instead we find the Deputy raising what we may call an incidental question. The Deputy himself referred to it last year as a pivotal question. I tried to indicate to him on that occasion that there was another side to the question. This is a matter on which the Deputy may have strong personal views with which I can sympathise, but I suggest to him that the trend of his speech would give us to understand that he has not appreciated the whole situation.

I may say, in passing, that the statement that Irish is weak in the Gaeltacht and even in the Gaeltacht schools is not borne out by the information at my disposal. I said in my opening statement that the inspectors are satisfied that, so far as the work of the schools is concerned the position is satisfactory in the Gaeltacht. When the late Government undertook to establish a number of these all-Irish schools they found a certain number of buildings available to their hands, most of which, I think, had already been used as model schools. An arrangement was made by which instruction would be given in them entirely through Irish, and that the pupils attending them would be confined to Irish-speaking pupils. The State gave a special grant. There has been a considerable development through the country in the matter of instruction through Irish ever since that time. It has been brought under my own personal notice, for example, that in comparatively large schools where it was decided to embark on an intensive effort in regard to Irish that even within the space of one year it was possible to change the whole complexion of the school so far as the carrying out of the work through Irish was concerned.

It has been the policy, since the beginning, to do all the work in the infant classes through Irish. We have improved that situation by stipulating that, so far as possible in the case of Standard I, the work will be done through Irish also. It is agreed, I think, by all who are interested in education that a position can be reached within a comparatively short time when all the work in all the schools where the teachers are capable of doing work through Irish and the pupils have sufficient knowledge of it to enable them to follow the work and profit by it, can be done through Irish. If we follow the programme of advancing gradually we shall reach the position in which, up to, say, the fifth standard, all the work should be done through Irish in practically all our schools. Therefore, I say there is a general acceptance in the country of the policy of a gradual development of Irish as the medium of intercourse and of instruction in the schools.

The Deputy seems to pretend that there is no such advance and that we are not making any headway except in those schools which have been all-Irish schools from the beginning. There is another position, and it is this: that in the City of Dublin very large expenditure will be necessary to provide proper school buildings and proper accommodation, even apart altogether from the growing population which, in itself, is a serious factor. Even in the district in which Deputy Mulcahy resides the schools are not in a very satisfactory condition. I have to consider whether the Government are going to spend money on the building of an all-Irish school where there is a very strong case, and in fact a very urgent case from the medical point of view, for the replacement of an existing school. The position with regard to the building of the proposed all-Irish school, although I was quite in favour of the project and anxious to go ahead with it at the time, is that I did not receive sufficient support or sufficient co-operation from the other bodies interested to enable me to proceed.

Who were the other bodies?

The parents of the pupils, for instance.

What assistance did the Minister want?

These parents were asking for a special Irish school that their children would be permitted to attend, and which would save them a considerable amount of expense. It was pointed out that a local contribution would help. We thought, rightly or wrongly, that the Government should not adopt the policy of providing all-Irish schools free of cost in particular areas. We may have got some slight support but we certainly did not get sufficient support from the parents.

You were offered a group of 230 odd children coming from Irish-speaking homes.

With regard to insisting on all-Irish schools in Marlborough Street, it must be pointed out that these schools were originally intended mainly for the people of that parish. I think I am not wrong in making that statement. At the present time, these schools are being crowded out. Deputy Mulcahy complained of lack of staff and lack of accommodation. The reason for it is that parents, instead of going to their own managers and getting them to provide accommodation in their parishes, are all crowding into these central schools. Naturally, there is a limit to the number of children that can be taken into these schools. There is the pressure of the people of the parish and, if the limit has not been reached, we are within reach of it any time now. The Deputy has admitted that even in the Marlborough Street Schools it was necessary to have preparatory classes. Perhaps it may not be the case in Rathmines, but it has been found difficult to secure a sufficiently large number of children.

No, the Minister is wrong. The necessity for preparatory classes was to prevent children without a suitable knowledge of Irish being taken into these classes. Many people were anxious to push children into the all-Irish subjects without making any arrangements that they would speak Irish at home. The preparatory classes were brought in as a safeguard for instruction in the all-Irish school.

I am not satisfied there is a necessity for setting up these schools entirely at Government expense: the Government to be solely responsible for administration afterwards. There is not sufficient justification for continuing that policy when we we are making what I think may be considered rapid progress in the schools generally, and when already there may be a further large number of schools where a great proportion of the instruction, if not all, is being given through Irish. I have a certain amount of sympathy with the parents in this case but I am rather surprised that the matter should be raised as one on which we should be asked to reconsider expenditure on the Vote. I am not without hope that a solution of the problem will be found, but I do not think I can promise the Deputy that there is any hope of getting all-Irish schools financed and maintained solely by the Government. There is no question of antagonism amongst the officials. The matter was gone into very carefully by the officials. They found certain difficulties in the way, to some of which, if not all, I have referred.

The Deputy has repeatedly suggested that we should have a common inspectorate for the Fíor-Ghaeltacht. As that area extends from Falcarragh to Macroom, and is not even homogeneous along the western coast, it is difficult to see how an inspector could reach upon it. There is a difficulty there, but the suggestion is one we have had in mind. It is not practicable.

We consulted the inspectors regarding the programme, and their opinion was that more progress might be made in regard to Irish if we lightened the programme in the smaller schools. We have lightened it. We have strengthened the position of arithmetic somewhat, and left algebra, geometry and rural science out of the picture in small schools. In the larger schools we expect that the full programme, as heretofore, will be adhered to. The Deputy mentioned that young teachers who had been in the preparatory colleges did not seem to succeed very well in the bilingual examinations. While they are not cent. per cent., or even 50 per cent., their successes are very favourable, when compared with other successes, the successes of candidates who are teaching, and who presented themselves for these examinations. The whole question of the training colleges is under constant consideration, and we are at present awaiting a report on the position.

With regard to the migration scheme to Athboy, that matter is being dealt with and an all-Irish school will probably be provided. I take no responsibility, and I think no one could, as to whether Irish will or will not be spoken by the people who go there. That is a matter for themselves. If they have the proper spirit and the proper outlook they will certainly continue to speak Irish. With regard to delay in the publication of the secondary school results, that was occasioned last year owing to the illness of one of our most important officials in the secondary branch. In future, there will be no ground for complaint there. The Deputy referred to the Committee appointed to deal with the question of the school-leaving age. The Committee has not yet reported, but I am informed that the report is being prepared and will be available in a few months' time. If recommendations are made for the raising of the school-leaving age, I will bring the matter before the Executive Council. I cannot say anything further at present.

Deputy Norton raised a number of questions, such as the falling averages in the schools. We have been considering that. Deputy Breathnach seems to find fault because we cannot give an answer on the spot. In matters affecting finances, as the Deputy knows, there are general considerations and questions of financial exigency. We are examining the question but we do not know whether we will be able to make any concessions or not. With regard to the position of a small number of junior assistant mistresses, who have long service but were not entitled to get pensions, I promised Deputy Breathnach to go into these cases. According to the report I received the majority of persons who, unfortunately, were excluded from the Pensions scheme are over 70 years of age, or are in receipt of assistance in some other way. There may be a small number absolutely destitute, but I do not think it would be feasible to introduce special legislation to deal with them. We promised to consider the matter and we did so. The decision arrived at was that we do not contemplate introducing legislation to deal with the very small number of cases that are outstanding.

As Deputies know, there will always in connection with a pension scheme be exceptional cases and sometimes very hard cases. In the secondary teachers superannuation scheme, I think the scheme had to be amended twice to cover particularly hard cases, but even then all the cases were not brought in. It is impossible to legislate for every single case, and if you go back one year you will be asked to go back two years, three years or four years. I think the settlement we made with the teachers was a reasonable one, and it is not reasonable to ask us to re-open the question now.

Deputy Norton commented on my remarks regarding the condition of school buildings and the unsatisfactory condition in which some of them are maintained, and the very bad condition in which out-offices are kept. This is a matter for the Schools Medical Service, for the medical officers of health. We have been in communication with the Local Government Department, and if Deputies will study the annual reports of medical officers of health, they will see that in addition to their ordinary school inspections they are paying some attention to this matter of school buildings. I do not say that we can always attain the standards which medical officers of health would like us to, but we could see to certain matters which would ease the situation, and one of these matters would be the giving of more consideration to the appearance of schools and the maintenance of ordinary cleanliness. In some of these reports we see that some schools are cleaned only a few times a year and washed perhaps only once. It is obviously difficult to maintain such schools in proper condition. On the other hand, managers may claim they are not getting sufficient aid from the State to enable them to do this work properly. The position at present is that responsibility is on their shoulders, and I think it is well that attention should be directed to this very important matter. As far as we are concerned, with regard to the matter of new schools we have made the very largest possible allowance in our annual budget. During the coming year, if managers are willing to meet us, we expect to be able to expend £200,000 from State funds on the provision of new schools and the extension and improvement of existing ones. I would like to say with regard to maintenance and sanitation of schools and school buildings generally, that more might be done by teachers to instruct the children, even though it might not be taken as a formal school subject, in personal cleanliness and in matters of hygiene. It is a matter I have no wish to find fault with, as I know the whole matter is under consideration by the Schools Medical Service. It is not amiss, nevertheless, to mention that more could be done by teachers in instructing children in these matters.

Deputy Breathnach referred to the question of the withdrawal of salary from teachers and I would like to mention that it is regrettable that, although the number of cases which have occurred is exceedingly small and reflects in no way on the general body of teachers, who are admirable in their conduct in these matters, we have cases of the falsification of school rolls. In these cases, the inspector is in duty bound to take action and report the matter to the office. These cases have come under the notice of the Committee on Public Accounts, and of the Comptroller and Auditor-General, and have been commented upon. It is extremely difficult for inspectors to deal with these matters, in addition to their ordinary work, which should be in my opinion the improvement of education and the making of suggestion to the teachers and so on. At present, the duty is cast upon the inspector of inspecting the rolls and seeing that they are properly kept. When one considers that an inspector has about 120 schools to attend to and has a large number of teachers in respect of whom he must spend several days making general inspections in their cases, it will be seen that the inspector cannot spare time, but if in the course of a visit he finds something wrong with the rolls, particularly if he finds falsification over a period, he is bound to take note. Until evidence is forthcoming to show that the case is not serious, I have no doubt that salaries have been withheld and possibly withheld for fairly long periods, but at present we have no option but to take action in these cases. We circularised teachers and managers last year calling attention to the seriousness of the situation and the liability to prosecution which lay in the finding of any falsification of the records of schools.

Deputy Breathnach referred to the question of school playgrounds. It is not the duty of the Department of Education to provide school playgrounds and if we were to provide them, it would entail a very heavy expenditure. The obvious course is for the managers of schools, especially where new schools are being built, to see that sufficient accommodation is available. I cannot believe that in the rural areas, where land is available, that playgrounds cannot be provided. Whenever the Land Commission is dividing an estate in the neighbourhood it should be possible to obtain an acre of land or so if managers would bestir themselves, but it is no part of our policy and I do not see any possibility of its being made part of our policy, so long as we have so many other demands to attend to.

I am glad Deputy Breathnach referred to the School Attendance Act. It is not within the jurisdiction of the Minister for Education or of the Minister for Justice to find fault with or comment on the decisions of justices in this matter. Occasionally when a school attendance case is brought into court and a farmer is fined for not sending his child to school, one gets a letter from the local Deputy asking for mitigation of the fine. On the other hand in cases where it appears the police or the district justices are not sufficiently active to please teachers, we have resolutions passed saying that the Act is not being enforced stringently enough. In my opinion, attendances in the City of Dublin should be better. There may be excuses on account of epidemics and bad school accommodation, but in Scotland they have reached 90 per cent. and we have only reached 87 per cent. in Cork City which is outstanding in this respect. Dublin should be very much better than the rural areas.

Deputy Norton also raised the question of school books and I have only to say in connection with it what I have said with regard to school playgrounds. To provide school books would cost about £100,000 a year and the financial situation remaining as it is, I see no prospect of getting the Minister for Finance or the Executive Council to agree to such an expenditure. Other social schemes have been introduced and have been very costly as the House knows. Although the matter of the Dublin Corporation being interested in the provision of school books has been mentioned here several times, no definite proposal has ever come from them with regard to the provision of school books for necessitous children.

I do not agree with Deputy Norton that teachers are kept out of their salaries for sometimes as long as six weeks. It may happen that they have to wait 10 or 12 days, but I think the vast majority of the teachers within a reasonable distance of Dublin are paid very promptly.

Where the manager of a school sends in the return on 31st of the month there is no delay in the office—no delay worth speaking of. I think the vast majority of the teachers except in very outlying districts are paid by the 5th or 6th of the month following and it would be exceptional indeed where a teacher would not receive his salary until the 20th. The Deputy is exaggerating when he says that there is a wait of six weeks. We would be glad to expedite payment and suggestions have been made to the teachers' organisation but it will mean that some of the teachers will have to wait for a longer period to enable others to receive their salaries in time.

Deputy Costello referred to the question of young people not being able to find employment. I do not think that is a function of the Department of Education. It may be a function of the Executive Council and of the Government as it is a matter that is worrying governments in all countries at the present time. I do not think the Deputy is quite fair in stating that vocational education is merely a method of marking time. If the Deputy would go to the trouble of getting in touch with the responsible authorities under the vocational education scheme in the City of Dublin, for example, he would find that a considerable number of the pupils who have passed through these schools have got positions and one of the reasons is that the headmasters of these institutions take a keen interest in their pupils, try to get in touch with employers and find employment for them. It is overlooked that there is no organisation which links up these schools with employment and with industry. There are certain statutory bodies, but I have never come across them although I know they are there, who are perhaps in touch with the vocational education schools and who exercise themselves in getting employment for the pupils. I have only to say with regard to the "dangerous experiment" of teaching through Irish what I have said before, that neither Deputy Dillon nor Deputy Costello seems to bear in mind that this is a policy which has been followed since the commencement. It is not the prerogative of one Ministry or one Government. Valuable results have been secured. It has been shown that the Irish language can be adapted and made to suit modern conditions. I do not say you can do all the work in the higher educational spheres through Irish but we have proved that the work of the secondary schools can be done through the medium of the language. The returns show that it is increasing to such an extent that it is a question whether in future we can employ persons as examiners who are not capable of marking papers answered through the medium of Irish. I do not follow the Deputy when he says that teachers have suffered from the introduction of the new scheme. It is extraordinary that we have not heard about this during recent years. I am in this House many years now and I have not heard it suggested that secondary teachers have suffered or have been penalised on account of the policy of increasing the amount of instruction through Irish. If the Deputy had definite cases to show I am sorry he did not call our attention to them. I am greatly surprised that such is the case.

I disagree entirely with Deputy Costello and any other Deputy who thinks that slowing down in the matter of Irish is good policy or that it is going to get us the support of the people who until recently were of the opinion that we were humbugging in this matter of Irish, that we were not in earnest about it, and that we were not going to pursue it. While I remain Minister for Education our policy regarding Irish will continue and it is up to other Departments as I said last year, and up to the Deputies generally to do their share, to see, as Deputy Mulcahy mentioned in quoting a speech of mine, that the work done and the money spent are not wasted because there is no corresponding effort outside the schools in the business of the country. Until there is some such movement there must be a loss and wastage. But while we cannot get the support, I believe, of the middle-aged and older people who have not Irish, to the extent that we would like, we are going to get a spontaneous movement among the young people who will carry the language into places it has not reached so far.

Question put: "That the estimate for the office of the Minister for Education be referred back for reconsideration."
The Committee divided: Tá, 33; Níl, 55.

  • Beckett, James Walter.
  • Belton, Patrick.
  • Bennett, George Cecil.
  • Brennan, Michael.
  • Broderick, William Joseph.
  • Burke, Patrick.
  • Costello, John Aloysius.
  • Daly, Patrick.
  • Davis, Michael.
  • Dillon, James M.
  • Doyle, Peadar S.
  • Fagan, Charles.
  • Fitzgerald, Desmond.
  • Holohan, Richard.
  • Keating, John.
  • McFadden, Michael Og.
  • McGilligan, Patrick.
  • McGovern, Patrick.
  • McGuire, James Ivan.
  • McMenamin, Daniel.
  • Morrissey, Daniel.
  • Mulcahy, Richard.
  • Murphy, James Edward.
  • Nally, Martin.
  • O'Donovan, Timothy Joseph.
  • O'Higgins, Thomas Francis.
  • O'Leary, Daniel.
  • O'Mahony, The.
  • O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
  • O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
  • Redmond, Bridget Mary.
  • Rice, Vincent.
  • Wall, Nicholas.

Níl

  • Bartley, Gerald.
  • Beegan, Patrick.
  • Blaney, Neal.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Bourke, Daniel.
  • Breathnach, Cormac.
  • Breen, Daniel.
  • Carty, Frank.
  • Clery, Mícheál.
  • Concannon, Helena.
  • Cooney, Eamonn.
  • Corkery, Daniel.
  • Corry, Martin John.
  • Crowley, Fred. Hugh.
  • Crowley, Timothy.
  • Daly, Patrick.
  • Derrig, Thomas.
  • De Valera, Eamon.
  • Doherty, Hugh.
  • Flinn, Hugo V.
  • Flynn, John.
  • Flynn, Stephen.
  • Fogarty, Andrew.
  • Geoghegan, James.
  • Gibbons, Seán.
  • Goulding, John.
  • Hales, Thomas.
  • Hogan, Patrick (Clare).
  • Houlihan, Patrick.
  • Keely, Séamus P.
  • Kehoe, Patrick.
  • Kelly, James Patrick.
  • Kelly, Thomas.
  • Keyes, Michael.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Kilroy, Michael.
  • Kissane, Eamonn.
  • Lemass, Seán F.
  • Little, Patrick John.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • Maguire, Conor Alexander.
  • Moore, Séamus.
  • O Briain, Donnchadh.
  • O'Doherty, Joseph.
  • O Ceallaigh, Seán T.
  • O'Dowd, Patrick.
  • O'Grady, Seán.
  • Rice, Edward.
  • Ruttledge, Patrick Joseph.
  • Ryan, Martin.
  • Ryan, Robert.
  • Sheridan, Michael.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Victory, James.
  • Ward, Francis C.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Doyle and Ben nett; Níl: Deputies Little and Smith.
Question declared lost.
Vote put and agreed to.
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