It is most enlightening to listen to the views of authorities on production and retailing of fish on both sides of the House. The underlying suggestion was that the aim of the fish trade was always to get the highest price. Deputy Dillon talked about the dearness of salmon, but with all due respect to Deputy Dillon, cod was the highest-priced fish in Dublin for three weeks. Where are you going to get cod? The best fishing grounds, the White Sea and the waters of Ireland, are closed to the trawlers of particular countries. But our trawlers are only a joke. Most of them are only little better than row-boats and they are quite unfitted to undertake the long journeys which would be required for successful fishing.
I quite agree with the views of the men who know the subject. Deputy Healy's family have been in the fishing trade for generations and were among the largest shippers of fish. He suggested that the whole system of carrying fish should be overhauled in regard to the railways and the Sea Fisheries' Association. I had a different criticism some years ago about the association, and we know their record. To-day, it is true, they are more keen and adaptable to the needs of the situation, and of course they are always courteous when you ring them up on the telephone. What are the facts? We get plenty of fish in Dublin, and so long as there is private speculation in fish we will not be concerned about supplies. I happen to direct the organisation of the workers in the best fish shops in Dublin. The whole concern of these shops is with choice fish. They do not want to handle coarse fish, or to sell you a dozen herrings. They do not want the poor people—they want to sell salmon, plaice and sole. They have men doing nothing all day except filleting fish for their particular petit-bourgeois customers, but the ordinary worker does not get any more chance in Dublin than do the people Deputy O'Donovan spoke about.
There is a market for fish, but no fisherman is willing to go to sea under the present conditions without getting a guaranteed week. We had a statement made here to-night, and it will be introduced before the morning's light, in connection with putting of fishermen outside the scope of a particular Act on the grounds that they were not wage workers. The man who goes out to sea to fish is like his comrade who goes down a stokehold of a ship—he must be mad, in view of the wages they get. But, surely, when a man comes in with a good catch, he is entitled to get a guaranteed price. Why do they throw it back into the sea? Suppose there is a load of 150 cran landed at a particular port—the man who owns it can get a decent price only for 20 cran, and he has not even facilities to make manure out of the remainder. The key to the situation is refrigeration and proper icing plants, but even the best of icing plants will not keep fish fresh for shipment overseas.
These men land their fish in Kerry; the fish leave Kerry at a certain hour and, after a journey of seven or eight hours, they arrive in Dublin. In Dublin they are immediately handled because, recognising that it is perishable stuff, the handlers are prepared to go out of their way to get the cargo dealt with. There are occasions, after the the fish reach Kingsbridge, when the men will not be allowed to handle them. If the train is only a quarter of an hour late, they are told: "You cannot handle them." The result is that the fish deteriorate by the time they reach the London market.
We know we have not a market here for such fish. You have, first of all, to get to realise that the people of this country are not fish-minded. They have never been educated in the use of fish. Those who are anxious to have fish do not often get the opportunity to purchase them. We hear all the talk about ling and other dried fish. It is impossible to get that at the moment. The Norwegians are for the time being out of business and we never undertook that method of curing fish. There are very few people in this country who know how to dry fish. We do not kipper fish to any extent. The few thousand fish kippered in Dublin do not amount to a row of pins. You want a modern refrigerating plant in Dublin and you want the industry centralised. How much better it would be if you could send the fish from Donegal or Kerry into a central depot with the assurance that, when it reaches there, there will be at least a guaranteed price? If the market is tight you might get a little more, but at least you will get the guaranteed price. If I were a fisherman, I would not land my catch without a reasonable return for all my labour.
An important problem is the problem of distribution. Fancy a man from West Cork saying he cannot get fresh fish, or any fish. Outside the White Sea, Iceland or Newfoundland, I believe there are more fish around our coasts than in any other part of the world. We have all classes of fish around our coasts. At times there are masses of fish and yet we never do anything about it. It is a tremendously vital trade. It is all very well to talk in a flippant way about this matter, but it is a fundamental thing in our economy. Those men who are engaged in fishing want some return for their labour. They are not influenced altogether by love of country, or the development of the country in an economic sense, when they are engaged in fishing. The fisherman wants some monetary return. I wonder how any of us would feel if, having laboured in the catching of fish, and sent them to the area of distribution, we are told that our catch is rejected. That is the position of fishermen who do not get even the cost of carriage for their fish.
I suggest it is the duty of the High Commissioner in London to look after our interests in this connection. He is a very able man and very active in matters which concern ourselves and our friends across the water. I suggest a representation from the High Commissioner would help to ease the situation. These gentlemen sell fish in the London market at Billingsgate. I do not suppose our representations would carry much weight at the present moment with regard to prices in England, but at least we could keep the fish until we get an assurance that the price on the market in London is fixed. There is no use in having fish landed here and then being unable to ship them. As Deputy Healy says, as soon as the boats get orders they have to go to sea at once, but if there were proper organisation the fish could be sent out in time. It would not take an hour to ship all the fish that would be sent from Galway or Kerry. It is the kind of traffic that can be quickly handled.
One would imagine that the Government might think it advisable to get some experts to organise this industry on a proper basis. The Minister for Agriculture has more than sufficient to do at present in connection with agriculture. For six days we have listened to statements relating to his multifarious duties and the activities of his Department. Now he is being asked to deal with fisheries. Surely the Government ought to concentrate on this industry and have it organised in a better manner. If you go down O'Connell Street, you can see the prices that are being charged for fish. If you go to any of the first-class shops, such as Dunn's, you will see the prices they are charging for different fish. They can charge anything for choice cuts. We know they are not anxious to send salmon to England at existing prices there, because they could get far more for it in Dublin. The price last week for salmon was 8/- a lb. Then, as regards plaice and sole, they are also fetching high prices. I remember the time when the people would not buy plaice. At the moment sole is almost worth its weight in gold.
Why not fillet herrings, or turn them into paste, if necessary, and supply our institutions? There are times when fish are thrown into the sea, but when there is such a surplus why should it not be distributed among our institutions? Take an institution like Grangegorman, where you have thousands of patients who are very willing to have food of this kind. That is a point that might be considered. There never need be any surplus on the market. All you want is proper organisation. I am sure there is no one more concerned than Deputy Dillon about those matters, about the poor of Dublin especially.
If you were to take a cart to-morrow and try to sell fish to the ordinary poor of Dublin, how would you fare? The fact is that the people are not fish conscious. They would sooner pay for a fillet of steak or a chop than buy a dozen of fish, even if they cost only threepence. We will have to educate them and get the dieticians to tell them the value of the fish. If you have kippered herrings or finnan haddock the people will buy them. Finnan haddock is a very tempting fish. If we could have education in relation to fish imparted under the supervision of the Department, we would be doing a good day's work for the country.