Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 Jul 1945

Vol. 97 No. 18

Local Authorities (Acceptance of Gifts) Bill, 1945—Committee (Resumed) and Final Stages.

Question—"That Section 3 stand part of the Bill"—put and agreed to.

SECTION 4.

Mr. MacEntee

I move amendment No. 1:—

To delete sub-section (2) and to insert in lieu thereof the following sub-section:—

(2) The expenses incurred under this section in relation to a civic improvement scheme shall—

(a) if incurred by a vocational education committee or a committee of agriculture, be defrayed out of the voluntary civic improvement fund established thereunder,

(b) if incurred by any other local authority, be defrayed either—

(i) out of such voluntary civic improvement fund, or

(ii) (I) in the case of the corporation of a county borough or the Borough of Dún Laoghaire, out of the municipal fund,

(II) in the case of the council of a county, by means of the poor rate as a charge on the county health district of that county,

(III) in the case of the corporation of a borough (not being a county borough or the Borough of Dún Laoghaire), by means of the borough rate,

(IV) in the case of the council of an urban district or the commissioners of a town, by means of the town rate.

Section 4 as drafted provides that the cost of advertisements should be charged against the civic improvement fund. On reconsideration, it is felt that it might be advisable to allow local authorities, such of them as have rate-raising powers, to defray the cost of advertisements out of the rates if they so desire. Vocational education committees and county committees of agriculture have not rate-raising powers and in their case the charge must necessarily fall on the civic improvement fund.

Mr. Hughes

The Minister said they might impose it on the civic improvement fund. According to the amendment they must.

Mr. MacEntee

No.

Mr. Hughes

"(b) if incurred by any other local authority be defrayed."

Mr. MacEntee

"(i) out of such voluntary civic improvement fund or... (ii) out of the municipal fund." They have an option.

Mr. McMenamin

What is the improvement fund?

Mr. MacEntee

The improvement fund is a fund to be established under a civic improvement scheme. Of course, the municipal fund is the ordinary revenue of the municipality.

Amendment put and agreed to.

Section 4, as amended, agreed to.

SECTION 5.

Mr. MacEntee

I move amendment No. 2:—

Before Section 5 to insert the following new section:—

5.—The commissioners of a town (if not already a body corporate) shall, for the purpose of accepting, holding and administering gifts of real or personal property for civic improvements and of suing and being sued in respect thereof, be a body corporate with perpetual succession and any instrument relating to such property shall be duly executed by such commissioners if executed in manner provided by Section 59 of the Commissioners Clauses Act, 1847, with respect to conveyances by commissioners who are not a body corporate.

Town commissioners, that is commissioners of a town which is not an urban district, are usually non-corporate bodies. It is always necessary when power is given to such bodies to hold land for any purpose to incorporate them for such specific purpose and the object of the amendment is to ensure that for the purpose of the civic improvement scheme town commissioners may be considered as corporate bodies.

Mr. Hughes

Can the Minister say why it is not proposed to incorporate them for every other purpose? It is an extraordinary amendment. It begins: "The commissioners of a town (if not already a body corporate)"——

Mr. MacEntee

That raises a very big issue. Town commissioners as a rule are not, in fact, corporate bodies except where the towns of which they are commissioners were boroughs before the Act of 1840. Under that Act of 1840 these towns lost their borough status but the commissioners continued on as corporate bodies. That is the exceptional case. The general case is that they are not corporate bodies.

Mr. Hughes

What is the object of not putting it in the other amendment? This is the Fifth Section. Why was it not put in amendment No. 1?

Mr. MacEntee

This is quite different. The Bill defines that the expression "local authority" shall include among other things town commissioners. Town commissioners in general are not empowered to hold or administer land except in certain circumstances where there is a specific provision made in the relevant statute, such cases, for instance, as where they acquire land for housing purposes, but in other circumstances as a rule they may not hold land. In order to enable them to accept a gift of land under a civic improvement scheme, if they desire to initiate such a scheme, it is necessary that they should for that purpose be considered as corporate bodies. That is the purpose of the amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 5, as amended, and the Title agreed to.

Bill reported with amendments.

Agreed to take the remaining stages now.

Question—"That the Bill be received for final consideration"—put and agreed to.

Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Mr. Dillon

I should like to ask about bodies analogous to town commissioners and to inquire whether provision is being made for them, or whether the Minister's failure to make provision for them indicates that they have in fact disappeared as a result of the County Management Act, 1942. Under the Local Government Act, 1925, boards of health were charged with the administration of the affairs of small towns which had not got town commissioners and which were not yet villages, but, in the discharge of their duties in regard to those towns, they were empowered to promote the creation of town committees to advise them on certain aspects of the town's requirements. These bodies had statutory recognition, although their functions were entirely advisory, and the form of giving effect to their functions was that the town committee incorporated a report of its proceedings in the minutes and these minutes were submitted to the board of health and there adopted, amended or rejected.

Certain cases have arisen where these town committees have been appointed as the authority to discharge other duties in no way ancillary to their duty as an advisory body to the board of health. The acquisition of property by way of gift for local purposes is a function in point. Have these bodies completely disappeared by virtue of the merger of the board of health's functions in the functions of the county manager, or do they survive, although their principals, the boards of health, have themselves disappeared? If they survive, are they static creatures, consisting of the members who belong to them on the date of the coming into effect of the County Management Act, and can bodies of persons who were town committees function to accept trusts of the character envisaged by this Bill for the benefit of the communities they represented prior to the passage of the 1942 Act? I do not ask the Minister to answer off hand, as it may be something which has not occurred to his mind.

Mr. MacEntee

Perhaps it would have been better if this matter had been raised yesterday when I might have been able to deal with it more fully to-day. It is not necessary that such committees should receive any statutory recognition in this Bill. These committees, as the Deputy has told the House, when they functioned, functioned as advisory committees to the board of health, but the scheme of the Bill provides that the county council, with which boards of health are now merged, may adopt a civic improvement scheme, a scheme in respect of civic improvements generally, a particular class or classes of civic improvements, or one particular civic improvement, and the expression is defined as including anything which tends to improve the amenities of the functional area of the local authority. It seems to me that as a scheme may be adopted in respect of a particular class of, or of one particular civic improvement, it can be said that a county council may establish a civic improvements scheme for the particular improvement of any one of these towns the Deputy has in mind, towns which are at present not administered but subject to the supervision, if I may put it that way, of a town committee, and that it would be quite possible to ensure that the benefits of any particular civic improvement scheme would be reserved to a particular district, to a district which, as I said, had the advantage of having a town committee looking after its interests. So far as the particular scheme of the Bill is concerned, it is not necessary to make the special provision which the Deputy has indicated might be necessary, but I will look into it between now and the date upon which the Bill is considered by the Seanad.

Mr. Dillon

If the Minister would be kind enough to look into the matter particularly with regard to what has actually happened to these advisory committees—whether they were provided for in the 1942 Act or whether they have been deemed to disappear with the boards of health—and would send me a note on the result of his researches, I should be much obliged.

Question put and agreed to.