Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 9 May 1946

Vol. 100 No. 19

Committee on Finance. - Vote 61—Posts and Telegraphs (Resumed).

Mr. Flanagan

On this Estimate last night I was drawing the Minister's attention, just when progress was reported, to a communication which was addressed to him by a Deputy. I very strongly resented the action of the Minister in disclosing the information contained in that letter to the Press. I do not want to repeat what I said last night, but I would be very glad to get an assurance from the Minister that he will not continue this practice in the future. Since I became a member of the House three years ago, I have never known of a case where a Deputy made representations through any Minister and these representations were made public property in the daily papers. I think it is a practice that no Minister should carry out.

The Taoiseach made an appeal to the House for the co-operation of all Deputies with the members of his Cabinet, and when Deputies are anxious to make representations and recommendations to Ministers and when they are really at heart sincere in advising the Ministers in the discharge of their duties, it is very bad policy that any Minister, and particularly the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, should write to the editors of papers and have published copies of any communication addressed to him by any member of the House. I hope that practice will be discontinued and that we will get an assurance from the Minister that it will not happen again. We had one experience of it some months ago and we do not want another.

I sincerely hope that the Minister will give consideration to the appointment, in provincial towns, of post office messengers. Since we have had such a great volume of emigration, all the emigrants, the 175,000 who are employed in England, have relatives in this country and every week they send them an allowance. It is sent by telegram to the people here. Take the town of Mountmellick, to which I have referred in the course of correspondence with the Minister. We had a post office messenger there, but for reasons best known to the Department the post was discontinued, although the volume of telegraph traffic was never so high. Some steps should be taken to provide messengers in all provincial towns.

The general public do not seem to have much of a grouse so far as this Department is concerned. When the Minister's Department resumes its activities, now that the emergency is over, I suggest he should speed up daily deliveries in all rural areas, the erection of letter-boxes in rural areas and the erection of telephone kiosks in provincial towns. If the public get such services they will appreciate them very much. I had occasion to make strong representations to the Minister's Department in connection with the provision of letter-boxes for an area where we have no post office convenient.

I refer to Gurteen, quite convenient to the town of Roscrea, County Tipperary. It is in my constituency. The Minister stated that a letter-box was not necessary in this area. I should like to have the matter again considered. I am sure the postmaster in Roscrea will be prepared to recommend it, seeing that the appeal for it comes from a large number of local residents. If a letter-box is erected in this area it will be a great benefit to the public there.

With regard to sub-post offices, I am sorry to note that we have a lot of sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses who find themselves in certain difficulties in so far as they are the custodians of the funds of the Department. In my own constituency I know of a number of cases where sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses have got themselves into slight difficulties. The reason is that they were handling State money and they were not in receipt of a decent wage, sufficient to enable them to live without tampering with State funds. If the Minister wants these people to carry out their duties in a straightforward and honest manner, and if he wants to rely upon and trust these people, he must see that they are put in an independent way of living and will have sufficient salary to avoid any temptation with respect to the public funds entrusted to them. I make a strong appeal to the Minister to consider most sympathetically the salaries attached to these offices and I think the public will not stand in the way of substantial increases in this connection.

As for the telephone service, I cannot say that in my constituency I have any great complaints. There is an excellent telephone service in Birr, in the Tullamora area, and in the Portlaoignise area. There is no delay in getting on to the Capital. I have heard none of my constituents making any great complaints about delays in getting calls. I realise that other Deputies may have good grounds for complaint, Deputies such as Deputy Kennedy, from Westmeath. I am sure the Minister will not lose sight of the complaints made and that in time all those things will be remedied.

It would be most unfair if I sat down without paying a compliment to the Minister for the manner in which he has discharged his duties. Only on very rare occasions could I stand up here and compliment any of the Fianna Fáil Ministers, but I find I never had any reason to cross swords with the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs. In that respect I am unlike other Deputies, such as my colleagues from South Mayo and other areas, who seem to have good grounds for making very serious allegations against the Department. Speaking for my own constituency, so far as political appointments are concerned, I am quite satisfied that if I knew of an appointment in any branch of the Minister's Department, made on political grounds, I would have no hesitation in exposing it in very strong language. So far I have no reason for making any such complaint against the Department. I am very frank about it. I would be dishonest to myself as a Deputy, dishonest to my constituents, and dishonest to the Minister, if I did not say that the appointments made in every respect in my constituency were given to the applicants who were most qualified and who were most suited therefor.

To the best of my knowledge these appointments were made without interference. I had occasion to make recommendations to the Minister, but they would be recommendations merely as to good character. I always leave it to the officers of the Department to find out if persons that I recommended had the necessary qualifications for the post they sought, and requested that the applications might then be given sympathetic consideration. I found the present Minister for Posts and Telegraphs always very kind and helpful. He was always anxious to advise and assist in every possible way. For that reason I think there is no ground for any serious complaint from this side of the House. I hope that in the coming year he will be able to continue the progress which the Department has made under him. The money that is spent by the Department is being spent for the good of the public, in giving good service, and no taxpayer is prepared to give even a second thought to question the manner in which the funds placed at the disposal of the Department are administered.

Mr. Cafferky

I have no exception to take to this Estimate beyond calling the Minister's attention to a few matters which came to my notice. Coming from Mayo, I am interested in that constituency and one of my main interests is to get the Minister to realise the duty of seeing that all the people in the area have a daily postal service. They are as much entitled to a daily service as those in the cities and towns. It is only reasonable that those people should expect the same consideration to be shown them and the same services provided as are given in provincial towns. I listened to the Minister's statement on this Estimate and I understand that £20,000 is to be allotted for the provision of a daily postal service. I do not know whether that amount will be sufficient. I have on various occasions made representations in relation to areas in which there is no daily delivery. As Deputy Flanagan pointed out, a large number of telegraph money orders arrive in rural districts, principally from Great Britain and it is unfair that their delivery should be delayed.

The same applies to letters containing cheques, which are sent home by people in England. They are worried until they know that their letters have arrived safely. It is only reasonable to suggest that there should be no differentiation between one section of the community and another in respect to the right of a daily delivery. There are morning and evening deliveries in the towns, and while I am open to correction, I believe there is a third delivery in some places. That being so, we are not asking too much in suggesting one daily delivery in rural Ireland.

Coming to the position of the auxiliary postman, he has no security in his position. He may be an auxiliary postman to-day, but may be unemployed to-morrow. There are many instances where auxiliary postmen have constant employment, but when they retire, their service receives no consideration, and they get no pension. The Minister might take their case into consideration. The position is an important one, because these men are carrying letters as well as a special type of correspondence, and are trusted officials. At intervals, some postmen misconduct themselves either by opening letters or losing them. There were cases of that kind in Ballina and in Charlestown some time ago. There may be other cases of which I am not aware. Therefore, the postman must be honest and trustworthy in the discharge of his duties. The wage paid to these men is a small one, especially to married men, when the cost of living is taken into consideration. They have to supply their own bicycles. Everybody knows the difficulty there was during the war period in getting tyres.

I wish to bring to the Minister's attention the position regarding telephonic communication between Mayo and Dublin and with other parts of the country. If a trunk call is put in at Swinford there may be a delay of two or three hours. In the case of a call to Dublin, sometimes the delay is so long that it would be better to walk there. Communication between Kilkelly and Dublin is hopelessly bad. I do not know what is the cause. I am sure the officials responsible will be able to advise the Minister on that question.

My next point concerns clerks, particularly those working in sub-offices. They are paid small amounts. A short time ago a case occurred where a girl in a post office got into trouble owing to the fact, I suppose, that the wage she received was insufficient for her needs. She was tempted to use public money. In some of these sub-offices clerks are employed because the sub-postmaster or sub-postmistress has no idea how to conduct them. They are paid a lump sum and knowing nothing about post office business they take in one or perhaps two assistants as clerks. These poor girls or boys have to work for miserable allowances and do the job which other people are paid for.

If postmasters and postmistresses were well versed in, and had knowledge of, the running of a sub-post office, there would be no need for these clerks and the remuneration given by the State would be almost sufficient. But, as it is, those appointed to these positions have no such knowledge and must employ a boy or girl with knowledge. I understand that there is such a thing as a postal service examination and that many young men and girls sit for this examination. It is very unfair that these young men and women who go to the trouble and expense of sitting for the examination should be left out in the cold, while some "dud" in the person of a postmaster or postmistress is put in to do the work about which he or she knows nothing. I am sure that other Deputies, and particularly Deputy Norton who is secretary of the Postal Workers' Union and has all this stuff at his finger tips, have gone into this matter in detail and I hope the Minister will take note of what has been said.

I have had occasion to complain on a few occasions about the way appointments are made. I had no ulterior motive in doing so. I may be accused of having such an ulterior motive, but I cannot stop any man or group of men from accusing me of having such a motive. If they feel I have, they are entitled to that opinion. The Minister knows that I and other Deputies have on a number of occasions brought to his notice appointments which, in our view and in the view of the people in the particular areas, were surprising and which caused disappointment.

There was the case of the appointment in Carndonagh, County Donegal; there was the appointment in the town of Charlestown some time ago; and the appointment of the postman, to which Deputy Blowick referred, in February, 1946. These appointments have given rise to a certain amount of criticism and misrepresentation and I feel it my duty to make an effort to clear myself of that misrepresentation. I feel that I am in a position to do so, but, before doing so, I want it to be clear that I do not insinuate that the Minister did anything deliberate. I should, however, like to say that I was more than surprised that a Minister of State, a man in such a responsible position, would stoop to do what he did and with which I shall now deal. When speaking on the Vote for the Department of Posts and Telegraphs on 17th May, 1945, at Column 580, I reminded the Minister of the seriousness of appointing sub-postmasters or sub-postmistresses who were not fit for the positions. These were my words:—

"When there is a change-over and a new person is appointed, the Minister should send down one of his servants from Dublin who understands the administration of sub-offices, to ensure that the person who takes over is quite capable, so that in a case of emergency, when the girl or boy he or she employs leaves without notice, or with short notice, he will be able to step in and continue the business until someone else is obtained. Through pressure from Deputies and others, the Minister may be tempted not to consider the ability of applicants and it may be pointed out to him that he can get so-and-so to carry out the administration. That may be all very well at first, but the day may come when that person walks out and the whole post office business is left with no one to look after it ...,"

I then went on to say:—

"I understand there will be some changes in certain sub-offices in Mayo in the near future, and I know that I and other members from the county I have the honour to represent have made representations by letter. But let that not interfere in any way with the Minister's appointments. Let him take into consideration the efficiency and knowledge of the applicant in the administration of a post office."

In making that statement as to my having made representations and to others having made similar representations, I had in mind the vacancy in the Charlestown post office. By mere rumour, I was given to understand that a certain gentleman was to be appointed. A man in Charlestown wrote to me asking me to recommend him to the Minister for the position. I deny emphatically that this gentleman is any relation of mine. He may be connected with me in the sense that my sister's husband's sister is married to him. If that can be termed a relationship, I cannot help it. I also want to remind the Minister that that man was, and is, treasurer of the Fianna Fáil cumann in Charlestown. It is my duty as a public representative whenever anybody writes to me—let him be my greatest enemy—to acknowledge his letter and to do what I can for him, irrespective of what he may have done against me in the past or may do against me in the future.

Mr. Flanagan

I would have thrown it into the fire if I knew he was treasurer of a Fianna Fáil club.

Mr. Cafferky

It was to that letter from this gentleman, asking me to make representations on his behalf, that I was referring on 18th May. It was during the last week of the sitting of the Dáil last summer, at the end of June or the beginning of July, that Miss Brett, the acting sub-postmistress, came to me outside my parish church and asked me if I could do anything for her. I told her I could not, as I understood the appointment had been made. "Will you expose this appointment then?" she said. I asked what could I expose, that I knew nothing about Mr. Harrison, about the post office or about Miss Brett. She said: "I will give you the data, if you will take the matter up." I said: "I cannot do it now, but I will do so after the Recess." The Recess came and then the by-election came along, and I was engaged in something more important; but, after the by-election, I tabled a question to the Minister on the matter asking who had been appointed and what were the qualifications for the position. I got an unsatisfactory reply and then raised the matter on the adjournment. I was not interested in Miss Brett or Mr. Campbell, but, judging all the candidates, I felt that Miss Brett was the most suitable and most deserving and, with your permission, Sir, I raised the matter on the adjournment.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy knows that last year's debate cannot be repeated this year. Owing to the fact that I thought there was a personal element in the matter, I have given the Deputy good scope to explain himself, but he certainly should not take much longer. I think the Deputy has got good scope to explain himself.

Mr. Cafferky

I appreciate the latitude granted to me, but, in my absence yesterday, you or the Leas-Cheann Comhairle—whoever was in the Chair —allowed Deputy Moran, my colleague from Mayo, to misrepresent me, and I want to clear the issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should do so briefly.

Mr. Cafferky

I will do it as briefly as possible. I had this matter raised in the House and debated on 14th December last. I got the usual reply from the Minister. There was nothing more about that until Deputy Blowick brought up the appointment of a postman in Hollymount. In reply to Deputy Blowick, the Minister made the following statement, as reported in volume 99, number 11, columns 13, 15, 16 of the Official Report:—

"Now, I do not mind representations being made to me by Deputies direct or letters being written to me. I think it is perfectly right for them to do so, just as in the case of Deputy Cafferky when he wrote to me making strong recommendations, in connection with Charlestown Post Office, that I should appoint Mr. Campbell instead of Miss Brett; but I strongly deprecate Deputy Blowick going to the local postmaster and making representations to him."

That is taken from the unrevised report. On that particular evening, at the closing of the Dáil, as the Minister will recollect, he was leaving the House when I denied that I made representations, because I took the Minister to say Miss Campbell and so did those in the Public Gallery. I could not see what connection Miss Campbell had with the appointment in Hollymount. I could not understand how I could be drawn into something which only concerned Deputy Blowick.

I took it that the Minister referred to Miss Campbell instead of Mr. Campbell, and, therefore, I denied that I made representations on behalf of Miss Campbell. The following day the Press published this matter about Miss Campbell and my denial of what happened. On the following Friday the Minister came along with a correction of the mistake, at the same time going into the files—the last thing a Minister of State should do— and out of the files taking my confidential letter to him recommending, or not recommending, a man for that particular post who asked me to do so and publishing this letter for the purpose of trying to make me look a liar before the public and this House. Can you imagine that I would stand up and deny something that the Minister knew when I knew he had on his files a letter from me dated February, 1945? Nobody would do such a thing except an idiot or a fool. Yet the Minister deliberately quoted from the unrevised Official Report, which you know, Sir, is not allowed according to the Standing Orders, in order to score off me and to make the people of Charlestown, and Miss Brett in particular, believe that I was a double-crosser and a double-dealer and a dishonest representative.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has got scope enough for his explanation. Surely he cannot hold the House for more than half an hour on it when ten minutes should do.

Mr. Cafferky

It is so complicated, due to the Minister, that it is almost impossible to do that. I deprecate the attitude of the Minister and his monstrous action in quoting that unrevised report in order to score off me for my exposure of his political appointment in Charlestown a few months before and having it published in the Press to try to point out to the people and to this House that I was a double-crosser and a double-dealer and a man who was prepared to stoop so low as to put forward a connection or a relative of his own against somebody who made representations to him.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must come back to the Estimate.

Mr. Cafferky

I am sorry that this had to come up in my own interest and in the interest of truth and justice, but I had to expose the crookedness and double dealing of a man of that type. Deputy Moran referred to the fact that I was not here yesterday, that I deliberately kept away.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy deal with the Estimate? We cannot have a personal explanation for half an hour.

Mr. Blowick

Surely it is permissible to refute an allegation.

Mr. Cafferky

I intend to call the attention of the Taoiseach to the attitude of the Minister and I intend to ask the Taoiseach to censure a Minister who stoops to such a thing as he did.

An Ceann Comhairle

A Minister can only be arraigned by express motion, not casually. A motion of censure must be tabled. I may say that there is no rule against quoting from an unrevised Dáil report.

Mr. Cafferky

It will be tabled. Do you think it is fair——

An Ceann Comhairle

I have not any opinions on the matter.

Mr. Cafferky

——that a Deputy in my absence should be allowed to slander and blackguard me? Because I was not here for the Budget statement, he came to the conclusion that I was too cowardly to come before the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs and explain my attitude on this occasion and that I remained away from the House. I think I am entitled to vindicate myself. Yesterday I was engaged on business at the request of my Party and doing my duty to the people that I represent.

I want to assure this House that that type of misrepresentation will meet with very little success in my county. It has met with some success in the past, but we have very ably exposed it and dealt with it. I think the reply on the 4th December which brought this gentleman into this House should be sufficient answer to those who now try to misrepresent and misconstrue anything said here or elsewhere for the purpose of gaining a few miserable votes in their constituency and strengthening their position there. That is all I have to say in relation to that issue.

I want to make it clear that future appointments should be considered more carefully. If we are to have decent service, efficiency and honesty in the post offices and the sub-post offices, the Minister must be careful of the type of individual he appoints and the qualifications and ability of that individual. More than a year ago I was requested by the Swinford Parish Council, together with other Deputies, I assume, to write to the Minister and recommend that the Swinford post office should be made a salaried post office. That council represents people of all creeds and classes and politics. I made the necessary representations and got an acknowledgment from the Minister telling me that the matter was being considered or something to that effect. Due to the representations made by me, and I assume by other Deputies, because the council gave me to understand that they had written to all the Deputies, and I am sure they did their part as well as I did in making the necessary representations, the Minister had an investigation made as to how the Swinford post office was being run, with the result that it was found that efficiency was lacking in that post office. Therefore the postmistress was asked to resign or she resigned. If a lady is retired for being inefficient and no longer capable of carrying out the duties of her position, one would expect that the person who would take her place would be a responsible and efficient person.

That would be the only conclusion to which one could come. Before I go any further, I want to make it quite clear that the present occupant in charge of the sub-post office in Swinford is a very respectable man and a very decent citizen; but from the information at my disposal he has no qualifications for the particular position. Now I also want to make it absolutely clear that there is a great difference between him as an individual and the man who has been appointed in Charlestown. But it is the qualifications I am looking into, which count very much in a position of this kind. How can you have an efficiently administered post office, or how can you have the business of a sub-office, such as Swinford, carried out in a proper manner unless you have a trained person in charge of it? There are 11 postmen in it and yet the responsibility for the administration of this sub-post office is handed over to a man—a decent citizen and a most respectable man, but a man who has no qualifications for the post. I say that is not right. I am not at all surprised when I hear and read of things going wrong in sub-post offices, such as you have in Swinford, and elsewhere. I think the parish council, when they recommended that this should be made a salaried office, were well aware of the necessity for doing that. They were most dissatisfied when the Minister refused to take into consideration their recommendation. I might mention that their recommendation was representative of all classes. Because of past experience they knew that, no matter who was appointed, unless he was a postal servant fully trained sent down from Dublin and fully equipped for that particular business, it could not be run efficiently and in such a manner as to be of service to the people locally and to the State in general.

There is not a great deal more that I have to say on this matter. I referred to the daily delivery of letters and to the auxiliary postmen, particularly in relation to their conditions of service, their rates of wages, the tenure of their office, the necessity for some kind of pension after their long period of service. I referred to the telephone communications. Those are the most important points I wish to make.

I trust that the Minister will take these matters into consideration. While I may have seemed to have criticised him somewhat adversely, nevertheless I appreciate the efforts he is making. Even though I may have reason to quibble over what has happened, I am yet quite prepared to acknowledge the efforts the Minister is making to provide better services in every direction. I hope that some of the £20,000, which he is allocating in his Estimate for daily deliveries, will go towards improving the Kilkelly postal service. That may sound a foolish request coming from me after my most recent criticisms, but I do not think that the Minister will ignore me. I do not enter into controversy with the Minister on paper. I prefer to come into this House and speak directly to the Minister here.

I ask him now to take into consideration the thickly populated rural areas which have a heavy correspondence from Britain and America. I think that the people in these areas deserve as much consideration as the people in the large towns and cities and I would remind the House that these people pay their share of rates and taxes.

Mr. R. Walsh

I do not intend to keep the House very long. I am very pleased to hear that the Minister proposes to extend the postal services and to give greater facilities with regard to telephones. I would particularly draw his attention to the necessity for extending the telephone service to Mayo Abbey. I do not believe it would cost very much to carry a wire from the corner of Ballyglass crossroads. That is the only distance it would have to be brought in order to make contact with Mayo Abbey, which I might remark, is a prosperous area and a thriving centre of trade. The people there are three or four miles from Balla and about six or seven miles from Claremorris; and they have no facilities of any kind at their disposal at the present time, with the exception of an ordinary post office. I would also draw his attention to the necessity for establishing a sub-office at Crossard in the parish of Aughmore, outside Ballyhaunis. It is a very populous area and the people are badly in need of a service there. I have been approached by people from different parties asking me to put before the Minister the necessity for establishing that post office.

I am not going to traverse word for word Deputy Cafferky's speech. Deputy Cafferky must think that we are all very credulous if he expects us to accept him as an "innocent abroad." I have been nearly 20 years a member of this House. During that 20 years I venture to say that on an average I have written at least four or five letters every week recommending boys and girls for employment in the public service in every Department in the State. I do not think there is anything corrupt or dishonest in doing that. I have only done what every Deputy in this House, no matter to what Party he belongs, has done; and there is no Deputy in this House who would not be prepared to acknowledge that. Sometimes—I do not know whether as a result of my recommendations or not—the applications have been successful. Sometimes they have not—more often not. Now on the first occasion on which Deputy Cafferky opened this matter about 12 months ago, I remember the whole Clann na Talmhan Party were gathered together here on the benches. I made one or two remarks I think on that occasion and I was vigorously shouted down as being the greatest example of corruption in this State. I made a recommendation in connection with the Charlestown Post Office. I would be prepared to stand by the man who got that office as regards his character, integrity and honesty either in public or in private. I am not going to enter into any long debate on the matter either in public or in private. But I will say this—to say the least of it, it is certainly not a decent action to come in here to this House and throw out an implication, as Deputy Cafferky has done, which is open to serious misinterpretation by the general public outside in regard to that man's personal character. As far as I know, that man has nothing in his life to be ashamed of whatsoever. To take advantage of a privileged position as a member of this House to throw out an implication which would not be made in public where the risk of law proceedings might be incurred is certainly not fair.

I also made a recommendation for the post office in Swinford. I am not ashamed of that. I do not run away from it. I have made recommendations to every Department in the State. I have made recommendations to private firms in Dublin. I have gone from door to door trying to get employment from private employers in Dublin for my constituents. I am not ashamed of that. I do not see that there is anything corrupt or dishonest in it or anything of which any man need be ashamed.

Deputy Cafferky certainly has handsomely acknowledged the honesty and uprightness of the man who has got the Swinford Post Office but he still threw out that implication about the man who got the Charlestown office. There was in his statement the implication that there was something wrong with this man, that there was something he had to be ashamed of. I will not accuse Deputy Cafferky of inconsistency. He made a recommendation for that appointment also. He was entitled to do it. But there is no use in trying to make out that I am dishonest and guilty of corruption and nepotism but that Deputy Cafferky is not, when he does the very same thing. I do not intend to labour the point any further. I would remind Deputy Cafferky of the custom, as far as I understand it, in the sub-offices within the State and if I am wrong I would ask the Minister to correct me. Is it not the custom to allow a specified sum for a certain office, say, £400 per year for a certain sub-office in a small town?

Mr. Coburn

That is going rather high.

Mr. R. Walsh

That £400 is inclusive. It means that the person who is appointed as sub-postmaster or sub-postmistress will pay for all the assistance he requires and will pay for running expenses out of that £400. Is not that the custom and the practice of the Post Office?

Mr. Cafferky

It is a bad custom.

Mr. R. Walsh

Well, it is the custom. I do not say that it is a good custom. I agree with Deputy Cafferky in that. I do not think it is a good custom. I would go further and say that sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses are very poorly paid and that for such a responsible position the return to them is very bad. When a certain percentage of them go wrong and act dishonestly—and a very small percentage, when all is said and done—in one sense, it is hard to blame them because the temptation is there. I say straight out that I believe they are very poorly paid. Deputy Cafferky referred to dishonesty on the part of two or three postmen in County Mayo. I am going on memory, but I think one of them was an established postman, that he was not an auxiliary.

Mr. Cafferky

That is right.

Mr. R. Walsh

It does not always follow that the man who is the better paid and who has the more secure position, is the more honest man. I would say, in answer to another attack that was made here about the appointment of an auxiliary postman, that I do not think even Deputy Blowick, who knows of it, will say that there was anything wrong with the character of the young man concerned, or that he will accuse him of misconduct or dishonesty. I do not want to traverse line by line the speech made here by Deputy Cafferky. There may have been rough things said to Deputy Cafferky in return for that speech but he will remember that I did not pay very much attention to it either inside or outside the House. On the occasion that he made that famous speech, I think the one thing I said was that I stood over everything I had done in regard to Charlestown Post Office.

I still do that and I am not ashamed or afraid of anything I have said or done in connection with it. I do not retract. I do not apologise for anything I have done in regard to it. I think Deputy Cafferky will admit that he drew on himself a great deal of the attack and that he has no reason to complain. When you hit you are going to be hit back. I would ask the Minister to give serious consideration to the matters I have put before him regarding the telephone in Mayo Abbey and the establishment of a sub-office in Crossard outside Ballyhaunis. I would ask him, if I have made any mis-statement regarding the custom that prevails as to the payment of sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses, to correct me.

Mr. O'Donnell

I have on two or three occasions made overtures to the Minister and I have always been received nicely and most of the requests were acceded to. I suppose they were not unreasonable. There is one exception, the fly in the ointment, that is in connection with the Kilmoyler Post Office. We have heard a great deal about Mayo and many other centres. Kilmoyler is in the heart of the Golden Vale, County Tipperary. I have made overtures to you. You have all the data. We consider that we have a grievance. There are five miles of country; there is a big population, quite a number of houses and there are only three deliveries in the week. You have all the data. I hope you will look into it very closely.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have nothing to do with it.

Mr. O'Donnell

I mean the Minister.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister, I see. Deputies are supposed to be addressing the Chair. I thought the Deputy might be under a misapprehension.

Mr. O'Donnell

I lost myself. I thought I was dealing with reality, not supposition. I am very sorry.

Dr. O'Higgins

Which is the reality and which is the supposition?

Mr. O'Donnell

I assure you I did not mean it. I am only an apprentice. I have not put in my three years' apprenticeship. I am very sorry for what I have done. The Minister has all the data. I do not want to pursue the argument. The Minister has done a few things that we have asked him to do from time to time. We have not asked for anything unreasonable and we hope he will give this consideration.

Mr. Commons

I move to report progress.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.

Mr. Norton

When, Sir?

An Ceann Comhairle

Wednesday next.

Mr. Little

To-morrow.

Mr. O'Donnell

Are we sitting to-morrow?

An Ceann Comhairle

Apparently not.

Mr. Cafferky

Does this House consider it reasonable that Deputies are brought from the West of Ireland——

An Ceann Comhairle

You cannot raise that now.

Mr. Cafferky

When can we raise it? We were not informed of this.

An Ceann Comhairle

Ask the Minister later on are we sitting to-morrow. I have nothing to do with it.

Mr. Flanagan

When was it decided not to sit to-morrow?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has not decided it. Better find out from the Whips.