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Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 May 1948

Vol. 110 No. 10

Committee on Finance. - Resolution No. 6—General (Resumed).

Question again proposed:—
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.—(Minister for Finance.)

It has been the normal practice to move the General Resolution following the Resolutions which implement the proposals in the annual Budget statement for the purpose of permitting a review of the proposals on the following day, when Deputies have had an opportunity to consider them. This is the General Resolution which is before the Dáil now and on it I want to amplify some of the remarks which I made yesterday on the Budget statement of the Minister for Finance and the specific proposals which he made to the House. As I understand it, the main charge, if I may so describe it, which the Coalition Parties make against the Fianna Fáil Government is that it was extravagant—extravagant in the sense that it embarked upon projects which, in their opinion, the country could not afford, or projects which, in their view, were undesirable, apart altogether from the adequacy of the country's resources to sustain them. That is a view which has been expressed on more than one occasion since the change of Government by the Minister for Finance. He told us in his first speech as Minister, and again yesterday, that in expressing that view he speaks not only for his Fine Gael colleagues but for all the Parties comprised in the Coalition. It is true that members of the other Coalition Parties, even those who are actually Ministers and consequently in direct contact with the Minister for Finance, do not appear themselves to have stated that view with any emphasis, but we must assume at least from their silence that they are in general agreement with what the Minister for Finance has stated on their behalf.

In view of these declarations by the Minister on behalf of all the Coalition Parties, it was of course assumed by Deputies of these Parties in the House, by their followers in the country and particularly by the newspapers that give them such staunch support, that the Budget would spotlight the extravagance of Fianna Fáil, indicate the particular projects which the Coalition Parties consider to be extravagant and undesirable, and which the Coalition was formed to prevent, and that the proposals of the Minister for Finance following his Budget statement would be designed to eliminate these extravagant or undesirable expenditures. We must assume that has been done. Certainly the Minister for Finance represented himself as having that task and apparently considers that he performed it. If I am wrong in that, perhaps I will be corrected. Until I am corrected, however, I shall assume that the economies outlined by the Minister in his Budget statement are those which, in the view of the Government and the Coalition Parties supporting the Government, were necessary to correct extravagance or to eliminate expenditures which, in their view, were undesirable.

What are these economies? The total of the economies outlined by the Minister was £5,500,000. That sum is made up as to £3,250,000 by the reduction of food subsidies, as to £1,000,000 by reduced expenditure on social services, as to £750,000 by economies on the Army Vote and as to £500,000 by a number of other savings, minor in importance so far as their cost is concerned, to which I shall refer later. In so far, therefore, as there was a view in the Coalition Government that the Fianna Fáil Government was extravagant, that its extravagance had to be corrected, that it was spending money upon undesirable services and that they had to cure the extravagance and save the money being spent, in their view, in an undesirable way, the Budget indicates that that extravagant and undesirable expenditure came under three main headings: food subsidies, social services and defence expenditure.

We are told that, in addition to these so-called economies which were announced by the Minister yesterday, there are to be further savings, further reductions of expenditure, amounting, it is hoped, to about £1,250,000 and which, until we are told otherwise, we must assume will be of the same character as those announced yesterday. If we are to have any useful discussion upon this policy of the Coalition Government, we must try to speak in language which each of us can understand. That means that we should try as a preliminary to get agreement on definitions. What do we mean by economy? Economy must be something more than the avoidance of expenditure. The ordinary meaning of that word is the elimination of waste and nobody would ordinarily use the term to describe the mere cutting down of expenditure, regardless of the value of the purpose for which the expenditure was effected. If a person came to the conclusion that he was living beyond his means, he would not be congratulated on his policy of economy and retrenchment if he solves his immediate difficulty by postponing the butcher's bill until next month and meets the grocer's bill by an advance on next month's salary. That, however, is the type of economy the Minister has decided to recommend to the House.

I said yesterday that some of the savings outlined in the Budget were fakes. Having examined the Budget statement, I have come to the conclusion that they are all fakes. There is not one genuine economy amongst them. There is not a single instance in which the Minister was able to say to the Dáil that the country will get the same service for less cost. That is what I mean by economy and that is what the ordinary person understands by economy. It is true that there has been an avoidance of expenditure, but in no case could that avoidance of expenditure be described as an economy. What expenditures have been avoided? The main saving is upon food subsidies. Of the £5,500,000 the Minister claims to save, £3,250,000 comes under the heading of food subsidies. Of the saving upon food subsidies, the most important part is the reduction in the Vote for the subsidy on flour. The possibility of that saving has been partly attributed by the Minister to the anticipated implementation of the International Wheat Agreement which was provisionally signed in Washington last February, but he is not claiming to have had any part in the making of that agreement. That agreement was under discussion during the whole of last year, beginning at a conference held in London in March, 1947, which was unsuccessful, and continued at the Washington Conference which assembled in January. I do not want to repeat what I said yesterday in that connection. It may be that that International Wheat Agreement will be implemented. If so, we will be glad. There will be a genuine saving to the country in so far as we will get the quantity of wheat allocated under the agreement at a lower cost than we had to contemplate on the basis of last year's prices.

There are, however, real dangers that the agreement will not be implemented. Apparently, the American taxpayer, having noted the proposals in the agreement and the general trend of world wheat prices, has come to the conclusion that the agreement could not be implemented without involving America in what would, in effect, be the subsidisation of wheat exports, and there is a disinclination in America to meet that charge. If that wheat agreement is not implemented, the savings on food subsidies which the Minister took into account in balancing his Budget will not be achieved. The rest of the saving—in fact some sum in excess of £2,000,000—is a mere postponement of the expenditure. Instead of meeting the cost of the subsidy in the present year, the Minister proposes to spread it over a period of five years.

He may have grounds for assuming that the cost of maintaining the present price of flour and bread through subsidy will be less next year or the following year than it is now. If not, he is merely, by this device, increasing the problem which he or his successor will have to face this time 12 months. Nobody, however, could describe the proposals of the Minister in relation to the flour subsidy as a saving. The possible reduction in the price of imported wheat is not due to any act of his. The postponing of a part of the cost of the subsidies to next year is a spendthrift device of which few people could approve.

The balance of the expected saving upon food subsidies is secured by increasing the price to consumers of tea, sugar, margarine and butter. Not all consumers of tea, sugar and butter will have to pay the increased prices, but some consumers will, and, by this device of increasing the prices, the Minister is reducing the cost of the subsidies hitherto paid upon these commodities to the Exchequer. In the case of butter, there is, in addition to the increase in the price to be charged to restaurants and caterers, a proposal to divert to the production of chocolate crumb for export some part of the milk supplies which might have gone into butter production. By that device, the amount of creamery butter available for consumption here will be less and consequently there will be a saving on the subsidy. I should like to deal with that particular project a little more fully later on.

In the case of social services, the Minister has the gall to present to this House, as an economy, a device for transferring the cost of the additional cash supplements paid to beneficiaries under the national health insurance scheme, the unemployment insurance scheme and the widows' and orphans' pensions scheme from the Exchequer to the insured contributors. Does any Deputy opposite believe that that is an economy? It is true that the cost to the Exchequer is reduced but it is reduced by transferring the burden from the shoulders of the taxpayers in general to the particular class of persons who are insured under these various social service schemes. I am not going to contend that at some stage the whole of our social service arrangements would not have to be tidied up. We contemplated tidying them up this year with the introduction of a comprehensive insurance scheme against all forms of undeserved want. That would, no doubt, have involved the disappearance of this cash supplement even though it was not intended by us that the total cost of the social service arrangements to the Exchequer would be reduced. We anticipated it might be increased. But we certainly would never have the audacity to present to the Dáil, as an economy, a proposal to transfer that particular charge from the Exchequer to the insured contributors to these funds.

The Minister also proposes to raid the widows' and orphans' pensions investment account. That fund was being built up by a series of annual contributions with the intention of ensuring that there would in the course of time be an investment income which would permit of the expansion of widows' and orphans' pensions without increased contributions from those insured under the scheme. By this device of making no contribution this year the date upon which the fund would be capable of meeting these larger pensions has, of course, been postponed. Again, that has been presented as an economy. No sensible person would attempt to describe it as such.

The third main item of reduced expenditure is the curtailment of expenditure on the Army. I referred to that yesterday. If Deputies opposite believe that this is a period in the world's history when it is sensible to save £750,000 on our defence services there is little I can say to convince them to the contrary. But it is folly. We all hope that a stage will be reached when small countries like ourselves can dispense with defence organisations. No one can contend that that stage has been reached now, and that this is a time when, for the sake of a comparatively small sum in relation to the total Budget, we can set out to destroy the efficiency of our defence organisation.

These are the Budget proposals. I said yesterday, and I repeat here now, that we are not interested in the Budget as a mere mathematical adjustment of State revenue to State expenditure. We are interested in the Budget as an instrument for achieving certain social and economic objectives. We examine this Budget for the purpose of endeavouring to ascertain what social and economic policy inspired it, what social and economic aims it is designed to achieve. I should have thought—and I still think—that in this House there would be general agreement upon the aims of social policy. There may not be agreement upon the methods adopted to achieve those aims. With regard to the aims we should set for ourselves and the purpose of any particular projects that might be discussed here we would, I am sure, find agreement as to what we desire. The aim of social policy must be to protect and, if possible, to raise the standard of living of our people and to provide out of the general resources of the community adequate protection against undeserved want.

Consider then the Budget in relation to those aims. The Budget raises the cost of certain essential foodstuffs. It expresses the Government's stand against any attempt on the part of the workers to compensate themselves for these higher prices through wage increases. There is, in fact, a threat, or a suggestion of a threat, that if there is a continuation of the present upward movement of wages the Government will consider reimposing the standstill Order. It makes no provision for the introduction this year of a comprehensive social services insurance scheme. The House is aware that the Fianna Fáil Government had intended to legislate for such a scheme this year and we had been led to assume by statements made by the Minister for Social Welfare that the Coalition Government would do likewise. The most we have been promised now is a White Paper before the summer. It is quite clear that the White Paper is merely a device to keep the public hoping. There is, in fact, in the Budget no provision for any such scheme before April, 1949. We must assume, therefore, that there is no intention to operate such a scheme before that date. I should have thought that not merely would we have had agreement upon the general aims of social policy but that equally there would be agreement upon the general aims of economic policy. It is true that there has always been and always will be far greater differences of opinion as to ways and means of achieving economic objectives than in the case of social objectives. I am sure, however, that most of us will accept the contention that the aim of economic policy is to make possible the achievement of our social aims by increasing the national wealth through expanded output from agriculture and from industry.

Again, examining the Budget in relation to that particular aspect of public policy, we find nothing in this Budget which is in any way designed to ensure an expansion of production of any sort except a general exhortation such as we have had on many occasions recently from members of the Government speaking in public. There is no positive stimulus offered to any class of producers. In so far as there is anything in the Budget at all, which appears to have a bearing upon the volume of industrial production, it is only a deterrent. The tax upon motor fuel must to some extent operate to increase the cost, and, therefore, reduce the volume of industrial output. If that is a fair comment on the Budget, then it is obvious that we can get from it no clear indication that it has been designed to serve any intelligible social or economic aims at all.

If we are to attempt to deduce from this Budget what is the economic and social policy of the Government we must take note of the following facts. Firstly, in the future, because of the Budget, the public will pay more for jams, margarine and oatmeal. They must reconcile themselves to enduring bread rationing for a period of five years. That, I assume, is the logical implication of the remarks of the Minister for Finance concerning the flour subsidy. We must reconcile ourselves to enduring sugar rationing for an indefinite period although we know that there are stocks of sugar in the country capable of maintaining an unrationed supply of sugar for eight months and that the world position in regard to sugar has changed radically, so that there is now no difficulty in obtaining whatever supplies may be required to supplement our own production on the basis of unrationed consumption. The only reason why we have to continue to ration sugar is because de-rationing it would either mean increased expenditure upon a price subsidy or an increase in price, and the Minister for Finance was not prepared to face either. I assume that we must also be prepared to do with less butter. The diversion of milk from creamery butter production to the manufacture of chocolate crumb for export must mean a lower output of creamery butter. The Government of which I was a member had an interest in the long-term development scheme for the production of chocolate crumb. We were responsible for the initiation of that development here, and we were anxious not to discourage it. We had to recognise, however, that in present circumstances, with creamery butter rationed and an insufficient milk production to maintain the output of creamery butter on an adequate scale, we could not permit of the unrestricted export of milk products and that the allocation of milk for chocolate crumb production had to be limited. The former Minister for Agriculture and myself came to an agreement as to the quantity of milk that could be made available for that purpose. The decision of our successors has been to increase that quantity of milk. That will earn certain sterling resources, but it means that we will have to be content with less creamery butter for home consumption.

In addition, the contributors to the social services must pay more in contributions for the benefits they will get. I think it is true to say that the contributors to these social insurance schemes would not object to moderate increases in their contributions for the purpose of getting additional benefits, but the device adopted by the Minister for Finance puts them in this position, that they will have to face a substantial increase in contributions merely to draw the benefits that they have heretofore been receiving. As I have already mentioned, the raising of the widows' and orphans' pensions through the operation of the investment account must be postponed.

The other indicator of Government outlook upon policy is the decision to reduce the Army. In return for all these burdens, and the risks which the Government are asking the people to take, we have got lower prices for wine, beer, tobacco and cinemas. I want someone to tell me what sort of social policy that scheme is designed to implement. If there is a social policy someone should be able to explain it; to me it is unintelligible.

The old age pensioners will get something.

I do not know if Deputy O'Leary is aware that the Minister is making a profit by his manipulation of the social services.

You could not afford it when you were in power.

On the contrary, as the Deputy knows there was a——

As the Deputy knows, the Fianna Fáil Government contemplated, under their scheme of social services, an increase in old age pensions. Deputy O'Leary is under the impression that this Budget provides more money for social services. Actually, it provides less.

The old people will get something, at any rate.

Who will pay it? First of all, the contributors under the national health scheme, the unemployment insurance scheme and the widows' and orphans' pension scheme.

The tourist hotels will pay it.

On the contrary, the Minister is taking £500,000 from the contributors to these social insurance schemes, £450,000 from the widows' and orphans' investment account, and he is giving back £600,000 in the form of increased allowances to old age pensioners and promises a revision of the means test.

You could not do that.

We would not do it.

You said the country could not afford it.

It was not a question of the country not affording it.

Deputy O'Leary ought to allow Deputy Lemass to make his speech.

He is not making a fair speech.

Deputy O'Leary will have plenty of time to make a speech of his own.

And he will be able to make a better one.

Let us examine not so much what the Budget contains as what it does not contain. It does not cover the social insurance scheme about which the members of the Labour Party spoke so often during the election and since. The Minister for Social Welfare spoke about it within the past week. There is no provision in the Budget for any such scheme during this financial year. There is another striking omission. The little group of politicians who control the teachers' organisation and its funds spent as much money in the campaign to oust Fianna Fáil from office as did the publicans. Why should the publicans get all the benefit? Since the change of Government the publicans got everything they asked for. They were given a reduction in the duty on beer. Not satisfied with that, they kept on advertising in the papers to get a reduction in the duty on wines. They got it.

It is fair to ask the Deputy——

It is not fair to interrupt the Deputy and Deputy O'Higgins must resume his seat.

On a point of order. I submit it is not in order for a Deputy to make an attack on individuals who are not in this House. When he refers to a small group of politicians controlling funds there is the implication, from the manner in which he spoke, that these funds are not being properly used. He should name the people to whom he is referring.

I am saying that the funds were used. We all know that during the election campaign the newspapers day after day carried advertisements directed against the Fianna Fáil Government and paid for out of the funds of the teachers' organisation. Are they going to get no dividend? The publicans are being well compensated for the money they spent on advertisements. Are the teachers going to get nothing?

The teachers are well able to talk for themselves.

I am only drawing attention to the fact that in this financial year no provision has been made for them. The Budget statement contains no hint or suggestion, much less does it make provision, for an increase in the teachers' scale of remuneration.

Why were Deputies on the opposite side of the House so silent about it?

The scales fixed in 1946 are due for revision in 1949. That was the arrangement made at that time. There is no question that next year, under the undertaking given by the Fianna Fáil Government, a revision of the teachers' scales is due, but apparently the expenditure of the teachers' organisation, which must have been designed to get an earlier revision, has been completely wasted money.

They do not think so, apparently.

The same applies to the Civil Service. In the case of the Civil Service there was a definite contract entered into with them. When their remuneration, which was on a sliding scale, was stabilised on the basis of the cost-of-living index figure of 175, it was understood then, and was part of the arrangement which induced them to accept that proposal, that the consolidated scales would be revised if and when the cost of living rose by 30 points on the basis of the old cost-of-living index number, which has now been replaced by a new number. It is true to say that the rise in the cost of living since the scales were consolidated has brought matters to the point where a revision is due, but apparently the Minister for Finance intends to avoid honouring that obligation as well.

There is no indication in the Budget statement that it is intended to enter into any discussion with the Civil Service organisations with a view to a revision of the scales. On the contrary, the final portion of the Minister's statement made it clear that he is completely opposed to the idea of any such revision as affecting either civil servants or any other classes of workers.

Behind this Budget there is a Fine Gael mentality. On two occasions since the Dáil assembled I tried to explain to the new friends of Fine Gael what that mentality is as I have seen it developing over the 20 odd years during which I have been a member of the Dáil. They did not quite understand the help I was trying to give them, but the task has been made very easy for me now by yesterday's Budget statement.

In 1932, when the Fine Gael Government were expelled from office, the position in which the Fianna Fáil Government found the country could be very largely described as being not much better than that of a British shire. We had no, or practically no, international contacts except through Great Britain. I have told the House before that at that time circumstances were such that nobody from abroad could even visit this country unless they came through Great Britain; they physically had to pass through a British port in order to come here. Nobody could trade with us, except in a limited way, unless they used British shipping and British transport organisations and, in respect of many classes of goods, unless they employed the services of British middlemen. Over a large area of the world it was not possible for other peoples to have diplomatic or consular contacts with this country except through British diplomatic or consular agencies. There is an idea, which may not have been the original idea of the Fine Gael Party, but which has certainly since become a fixed plan with them, that anything designed to achieve the development of our industrial potentialities, the exploration of our mineral resources, the development of our air and shipping services, the exploitation of our turf resources, the establishment of radio contacts outside our own territory, the expansion of our diplomatic and consular representation abroad, our participation in international activities, anything, in fact, other than the mere growing of grass to raise bullocks for the British market, is nothing but evidence of megalomania, to be prevented at all costs.

When I said all that before Deputies scoffed at me. I do not know whether the fact that they scoffed at me was due to their conviction that the Fine Gael Party, in the course of their term in opposition, had been converted from their original errors and that they could be relied upon not to pursue that line in future or to continue to have that outlook in the future, or whether it was because they held the hope—and I believe the faint hope—that they could cause the leopard to change his spots, that they could make them act in accordance with their wishes and not in accord with the Fine Gael mentality. I want those Deputies who scoffed at me to examine this Budget in the light of what I said. Our air development is to be hamstrung; our diplomatic representation aboard is to be reduced—I take it that that is the meaning of the satement in the Budget that the Minister for Finance expects to effect a saving on the Vote for the Department of External Affairs——

That is wrong.

The Minister will perhaps tell us later then what it does mean and what this saving is to be.

The short wave broadcasting station is not to be proceeded with; mineral exploration has been dropped; even the little Vote for Athletics is to be one of the Fine Gael economies. I spoke before about air development and I do not want to deal now with that question at any length. I believe—and most thinking people will agree with me— that the air will be the highway of the future. In the air great developments in international transport facilities are taking place and for the first time in our history we have got the chance of getting into that kind of development on equal terms with other countries. But we will lose that chance. If we have a Government inspired by the Fine Gael mentality for long in office we will certainly lose that chance and lose it perhaps permanently.

With regard to the short-wave broadcasting station, the Deputies should know that during the war we had no means of contact with the outside world. We could not even send a telegram except over a British cable; we could not send a letter except one which passed through British censorship; we had no broadcasting facilities to deal abroad with the many misrepresentations of our position. We decided that as soon as it could possibly be done we should have to establish a short-wave broadcasting station which could be heard outside our own territory. We received—and there is hardly a Deputy in the Dáil who has not received—hundreds of letters from our Irish exiles abroad asking for the establishment of a short-wave station which would enable them from time to time to listen to Irish news. We made arrangements for the establishment of that short-wave station and is that evidence of megalomania? That station has been partly erected; three-quarters of the cost of it has already been spent; three of the four masts have been built. Are they going to be left there to rust? Is that economy?

I was surprised at the announcement of the decision that the mineral exploration programme was to be abandoned. I think that I am correct in saying that each of the minor Parties in the Coalition Government expressed in their election programmes their intention of fostering the mineral exploration of the country. When I brought in a Bill to finance a programme of mineral exploration there was no objection to it and every Deputy supported the idea, but now we have the Fine Gael idea that anything which involves breaking the surface of the land and destroying the grass on it is megalomania and something which is contrary to their whole conception of keeping this country in the inferior position in which they left it in 1932 and from which we have been trying to lift it for the past 16 years——

And failed.

We did not fail.

Is there any Deputy who believes that the abandonment of the provision of facilities for athletic development is to effect a saving of £25,000 in a Budget of £70,000,000? It was adopted as an economy, they say. Do they not know as well as I do that it was not as an economy that that project was dropped, but as further evidence of that Fine Gael mentality against which I have been warning their new friends? I think that it is about time that the new Parties associated with Fine Gael stopped running after their Fine Gael leaders and found out where they are going. It is time that they stopped rushing headlong down the road which Fine Gael has pointed out and looked to see where the signposts are pointing. I am trying to give them a few indicators now which may induce their momentary consideration of the point at which they now are and the point at which they will find themselves if they continue to travel the road which they are taking.

I should like to ask a few specific questions arising out of the Budget which I think should be answered and I hope that the information which I desire will be given before the conclusion of the debate. Since it was stated that the increase in the contribution paid by persons insured under the national health insurance, unemployment insurance and widows' and orphans' insurance is estimated to bring in £900,000 in a full year and somewhat less this year, I should like to know what the increase in the contribution will be. How much will the individual worker have to pay in consequence of this transfer of the cost from the State to the individual?

A few pence, say 15/- in the year at the outside. That is staggering!

The individual worker will have to pay a few pence a week?

That is less than the increase on the packet of Players which you brought in.

Why this obscurity on the Minister's part? Why does he not state definitely what the increase will be?

Will the Minister tell us what building projects are to be dropped? One of the Coalition Deputies told me that the statue of Queen Victoria outside Leinster House was to be reprieved as an economy.

There was no mention of that in the Estimate.

It was described in the Estimate as "The Provision of Additional Parking Space".

If it is in the Estimate, then it is not to be touched.

What projects are to be dropped?

There is a long list of them.

There is to be a difference in the price of food, tea, sugar and butter for persons engaged in the restaurant and catering trades as against persons requiring these commodities for their own consumption. How is that going to work? What will be the position in the case of a trader who is both a retail purveyor of tea, sugar and butter and a proprietor of a restaurant or catering establishment? There are hundreds such. One of the main complications which I experienced in the operation of the rationing scheme during the war arose out of the many hundreds of retail purveyors of these goods who are also engaged in catering either as a permanent feature of their trade or casual catering on the occasion of fairs and similar functions. How is it intended to provide that the persons requiring tea, sugar and butter for catering purposes will pay more than the persons requiring them for retail sale? I would like to get some information as to what administrative arrangements will be made to get the results the Minister outlined? Does it involve another extension in the number of Government inspectors?

Oh, no. You left us enough of those.

In fact we were told that the inspectors were going to stay outside the farmers' gates and a few weeks later we had the Minister for Agriculture going to the Supreme Court trying to get the Supreme Court to give him the right to enter a farmer's land.

When was that action started?

It was the present Minister for Agriculture who advised the appeal.

It was not.

Pardon me.

I had nothing to do with such things. As the Deputy knows, it is not a Ministerial responsibility.

The decision to take the case to the Supreme Court was the decision of the present Minister for Agriculture.

It was not, I believe. I do not believe the Minister had anything to do with that.

It is work for the lawyers.

I am anxious to get some information as to the administrative arrangements by which the differentiated prices are going to be effected. What quantity of milk is going into the manufacture of chocolate crumb? Is the allocation to be doubled, trebled or quadrupled, and to what extent is it likely to affect the supply of creamery butter available for consumption here?

Deputy O'Leary was very pleased about the decision to increase the old age pension but I am sure he will have noted the rather meagre provision in the Budget for the payment of increased old age pensions this year. If the Deputy will make a simple calculation of the cost of giving 172,000 people an extra half-crown per week he will find that that very considerably exceeds the total amount which the Minister is providing for the increase of old age pensions, for some unnamed increase in widows' and orphans' pensions and for a revision of the means test under all these schemes. The obvious deduction, therefore, to be drawn from the amount is that this scheme will come into operation very late in the financial year. Why must it be so? The Minister for Finance says it is necessary to review every case amongst the 150,000 old age pensioners. Why is it necessary to review them? The only possible reason why it is necessary to have a review of each case is the intended change in the arrangement for the assessment of means. Why is it necessary, however, to wait for the implementation of the new arrangement in relation to means assessment before giving the increase of from halfa-crown to 5/- a week which has been promised? That could be done without any review of the circumstances of individual pensioners.

It is, I think, well known that of the existing old age pensioners more than 90 per cent. draw the pension at the full rate and there is no reason whatever why these people should be deprived of the increase which has been promised them while some other scheme is being worked out and administratively executed. I remember when we decided to increase the old age pensions last year we took the decision at the end of February and the higher old age pensions were paid on the 1st April. I know, therefore, that it is practicable to carry through that decision to increase old age pensions within a period of a month or five weeks at the most. The explanation for the delay in doing it which is contained in the Budget statement is in a sense misleading. A review of individual cases would be necessary if there were an alteration in the method of calculating means but it is certainly not necessary for the purpose of increasing the amount of old age pensions.

There is one more general observation I want to make. The Minister justifies the general appearance of his Budget on the ground that dangerous inflationary influences are still active here. He said that in his first official speech to the Dáil in connection with the launching of the recent loan and he repeated it in his Budget statement yesterday. If that is so, if there are dangerous inflationary forces at work here, then this Budget is an evasion of the Minister's responsibility. If there is a situation here in which inflation is at work capable of producing all the hardships and risks which uncontrollable inflation has produced elsewhere, then there is on the Minister for Finance the obligation to budget here for a surplus, to use the instrument of the Budget for the purpose of absorbing into the Exchequer the excess purchasing power the existence of which could produce the serious consequences to which he referred. That is the modern view as to how the State Budget should be used for the correction of economic trends.

In the past, Governments spent money when money was plentiful and saved money when money was scarce and thereby accentuated the economic swings but during the inter-war period every Government learned the wisdom of economising in times of boom so that it would be possible to increase expenditure in times of slump. If we have now a boom situation, a dangerous inflationary situation, the wise policy is to absorb purchasing power by taxation in excess of current needs to create a budgetary surplus to build up reserves which could be given back, in a form which would make for the expansion of the purchasing power of the people, when the inevitable deflationary trend develops. If the Minister does in fact believe that there is a dangerous inflationary situation, then this Budget is a confession of his own inability to take the course which prudence suggests.

The Minister in his Budget statement offered, or attempted to offer, some evidence of the existence of what he described as an inflationary situation, and all the evidence he offered related to the year 1947. He did, in fact, show by these figures that there existed in 1947 an inflationary situation. There was in office in 1947 a Government that was not afraid to face its responsibilities, which did in fact budget for a surplus, a surplus which the present Minister for Finance is now enjoying, which took a course of action that was clearly unpopular. We, as politicians, are just as alive to public reactions as any Deputies on the opposite side of the House, but we did our duty and took that course of action despite the unpopularity we knew it would earn for us. Because we did our duty we are now on this side of the House. All the evidence produced by the Minister for Finance related to 1947. It is not true that the note circulation has increased since. The evidence published recently in the Irish Trade Journal appears to suggest that for the past six months the tendency has been downward so far as note circulation is concerned. The bank debits, to which the Minister also referred in his statement, have tended downward during the last quarter of 1947. I do not know what has happened since. That information may be available to the Minister. It is not available to me.

These two indicators are, of course, important, because currency notes and bank debits are the most liquid form of wealth, and if, in fact, as I believe, the gap between the supply of incomes and the supply of goods has closed, that the inflationary movement is over and that the deflationary movement is now beginning, it is in these two indicators that the first sign would appear.

But need we rely upon these figures only? If there existed here now a serious inflationary situation, such as was described by the Minister for Finance, what would we expect to find in the ordinary day-to-day commercial life of the country? We would expect to find, first of all, an excessive demand for goods, a supply of purchasing power in excess of the supply of goods, tending to force prices upward, tending to produce scarcities. Does that exist? Does not every Deputy know that traders everywhere throughout the country are at present reporting trade stagnation, something almost akin to a trade slump? No price has advanced this year through causes which are not quite clearly nonmonetary causes. It cannot be shown that there has been any upward movement of prices in this year because of monetary causes.

Secondly, we would expect to find that the demand for goods was in excess of the productive capacity of the country. The plans which have been outlined from time to time by various economists for achieving full employment have all been designed to create a general situation in which the purchasing power available in the hands of the people would be sufficient to set up a demand for goods and services which would not be satisfied without utilising the entire productive resources of the country. Does that situation exist here? Will Deputies of the Labour Parties agree that there exists in our boot factories, our woollen factories, or any other classes of industry producing consumer goods, evidence of such an excessive demand that the full productive capacity of these industries is being fully utilised? Instead of having full employment, or anything approaching it, we have seen from week to week the unemployment figures—the number of persons registered at the employment exchanges— running from eight to 10 per cent. higher than in the corresponding week of last year.

I do not understand the Deputy. Is he stating that there is no excessive demand in the way of money for the goods that are in the country, or that there is not enough money?

All the indicators appear to suggest that we have passed the stage in which inflationary forces could be said to be at work and are coming into the stage in which there is danger of deflation, that in fact the purchasing power in the hands of the public is not sufficient to absorb the supply of goods waiting to be purchased.

May I suggest that that was not your thesis last night? I thought then the Deputy said that there was inflation and agreed with the view.

The Deputy never did?

No. I took the Minister's thesis and criticised him on the basis of his own belief. I am saying that if, in fact, he does believe there is an inflationary situation, the Budget is an evasion of his responsibility.

But, in fact, it is all right, because there is inflation?

I think it is far more serious if the Government has misread the signs and is going to proceed upon the basis of an inflationary situation, one which interprets as placing on it the responsibility of absorbing purchasing powers or preventing an increase in purchasing power. The Government can precipitate a deflationary situation, which will probably come at some stage, but which we do not want to come here before it comes elsewhere.

Surely the Deputy criticised me last night for not taxing enough?

If the Minister's assumption is correct.

Are you having it both ways?

No. My own view is that there is no indicator at present which appears to point to an inflationary situation here and that, consequently, we have reached the stage where a policy of economy and retrenchment, such as that to which the Government is now committed, is undesirable.

But if there is inflation, then the Budget is good?

If there is inflation, the Budget is an evasion of responsibility. It does not go half far enough to deal with it.

Then, there is no inflation?

What the policy of the Budget is, or what the ideas on which it is based are, I do not know. No one could know.

But there is no inflation?

I want seriously to argue that the indicators suggest that there is not, that the rising number of unemployed, the trade slump which traders report, the reduced production in a number of factories and various other indicators of the kind, all suggest that we have passed from the inflationary situation—which did threaten last year and which we tried to correct by the Supplementary Budget last year —and that we are now reaching another situation in which this policy of economy and retrenchment is a wrong policy.

Would not one great sign of the passing of inflation be that prices would drop—and are they dropping?

I think it is true to say that no rise in prices occurred in the past three or four months which could be traced to inflationary causes. Any increases there were were consequences of some non-monetary factor or of a decision of the Government.

Tell us an example.

The increase in the price of oatmeal and margarine.

Is that the basis on which the Deputy is making his case?

The Minister asked for an example.

That increase has not occurred yet.

The Minister has decided to make it and that is not due to inflation.

To get to the real point, has the price of oatmeal gone up?

I am trying to get this matter discussed in a serious way. If the Minister can produce any facts which would appear to support the view that there is a dangerously inflationary situation here, then I am prepared to support him in adequate measures to cope with it; but I must conclude, from the information available to me—the limited information published in the Trade Journal and the facts of day to day economic activities in the country as I know them—that there is not an inflationary situation and that, on the contrary, we appear to be moving to a deflationary situation. Therefore, I urge that this policy of retrenchment is a wrong policy. We are not now talking about economies.

If there are economies which mean the elimination of waste, getting the same service for less money, we will all be in favour of them; but the mere avoidance of expenditure, even on useful projects, because of the threat of inflation is a wrong policy. There is a danger that the Government has misread the facts and is applying a policy —here and there, at any rate—which will tend to accentuate the dangers which I see in the present situation. I think this is a situation which requires us to spend money on useful projects and not to be seeking opportunities for retrenchment. I see no reason whatever why we should not provide the £85,000 per year for mineral exploration.

Surely that would not matter in deflation?

Why save it? Is there any justification for saving it except that there is an inflationary situation?

If there is deflation, it is not £85,000 we would need to expend, but a couple of millions.

So the Deputy would like us to go up by a couple of million?

No. I am querying the basic idea upon which the Minister framed his Budget. I take it that his justification for stopping the expenditure of money upon mineral exploration, the erection of the short-wave power station, upon athletics and all these things, is because there is some reason why we should curtail expenditure; and the reason he gave was that he saw an inflationary situation. I am not now going to infer—only a fool would do so—that mineral exploration will reveal workable deposits of commercial ores.

The Deputy never believed in it.

There are experts' reports which indicate the possibility that they are there and I think we should not rest satisfied until we have found out whether those reports are justified in their general conclusions or not. In any event is it not useful work? Why deprive ourselves of a short-wave broadcasting station that is three-quarters erected? Is that economy? Is it not waste? Why save the £25,000 voted for the development of athletics—unless there is some misconceived idea that it is megalomania for the Irish people to hope to develop athletics here or even to participate in international athletic tests. My belief is that the expenditure of money upon useful projects—upon necessary State building, upon transport development whether on the land, on the sea or in the air, and upon other projects of a similar kind—is desirable in present circumstances and will, in fact, be urgently necessary, if I read the general economic indicators right, as a corrective to deflationary tendencies.

I do not want to occupy the Dáil any longer in expressing my views because I am sure there are other Deputies who will have other views to express. I think this Budget was framed in political expediency and that there is nothing behind it except political expediency. In so far as it bears any hallmark of inspiration at all it bears the hallmark of the old Fine Gael mentality—that mentality which has already produced such disastrous results in this country and which, we hoped, had been permanently eradicated from the councils of this country's Government. Having regard to the views we hold and to the indications that that old mentality is being revived and is going to inspire Government activity in the future, it is inevitable that we will oppose this Budget, and we will oppose it vigorously. That it should be supported, and with applause, by the Labour Deputies is the most incomprehensible thing about it.

Ba mhaith liomsa cur síos a dhéanamh i nGaeilge ar dtúis ar an gCáinfhaisnéis seo. Fé mar adúirt an Teachta a labhair rómham, nílimid sásta leis in aon chor. Tríd is tríd, níl ann ach cur i gcéil. Nuair a bhí muintir na taoibhe eile ag gabháil timpeall na tíre le linn an Toghcháin bhíodar ag cur in a luí ar na daoine gur theastaigh uathu an costas maireachtála d'ísliú; go raibh so ró ard ar fad do mhuintir na tíre seo agus, freisin, gur theastaigh uathu na cánacha d'ísliú. Dá bhféachadh éinne ar an gCáinfhaisnéis seo chífeadh sé láithreach bonn baill nár comhlíonadh ceachtar den dá chuspóir sin. Fuaireamar cur síos bréa uathu ar cad a bhí beartaithe acu le haghaidh na ndaoine atá ag fáil an phinsin sean aoise, pinsin na ndall agus pinsin na mbaintreach agus na ndílleachtaí, ach, tar éis an méid sin cainte go léir, conas mar atá an scéal? Níl le fáil ag formhór na ndaoine seo atá ag fáil an phinsin sean aoise ach leath-choróin sa mbreis. Ní mór an tairbhe an méid sin dos na daoine aosta. Ina theannta sin, tá sé curtha siar ag an Rialtas mar ní theastaíonn ón Aire an bhreis a cur ar fáil go dtí dáta éigin san am atá le teacht.

Níl sa Cháinfhaisnéis seo atá ós comhair na Dála acht saghas trochléireacht—ag tógaint airgid ó dhreamanna áirithe agus a thabhairt do dhreamanna eile. Fiú amháin anois na daoine sin atá ar árachas náisiúnta agus na daoine a dhíolann isteach ins an gciste atá ann do, na baintreacha agus na dílleachtaithe, beidh orthu níos mó a dhíol feasta. Is mar sin a gheibhtear airgead don Stáit agus sin é an t-airgead a tabharfar do na daoine atá chun an leath-choróin sa mbreis d'fháil lá éigin san am atá le teacht ach níor luadh an dáta go fóill.

Nuair a bhí an tAire féin, agus na daoine a chlaíonn leis, ag suí ar an dtaobh seo den Teach bhí mórán le rá acu mar gheall ar chomh híseal is a bhí páigh an lucht oibre. Agus freisin, nuair a bhí an Cháinfhaisnéis Bhreise ós comhair na Dála ag an Aire Airgeadais deireannach dúirt an fear atá anois ina Aire Airgeadais—agus an fear atá anois ina Aire Leasa Shóisialaigh chomh maith—go raibh éagóir á dhéanamh ag an Aire agus ag an Rialtas a bhí ann an tráth sin nuair ná rabhdar sásta páigh an lucht oibre d'ardú. Acht sa Cháinfhaisnéis seo do b'éigean don Aire Airgeadais teacht isteach agus a rá leis an lucht oibre nach bhfuil ardú páighe le fáil acu mar, dá bhfaighdís é, d'ardódh se an costas maireachtála ró mhór. Ní fheadar an mbeidh an lucht oibre sásta leis an ráiteacht sin.

Is cuimhin liom, freisin, nuair a bhí na Tairiscintí sin ós comhair na Dála anuiridh ag an Aire Airgeadais deireannach chun cáin bhreise a chur ar ghluaisteáin, go raibh an oiread sin cur ina choinne ag na daoine atá anois ar thaobh an Rialtais gur chuireadar bhótáil an bun air. Anois, ní hamháin go bhfuil an tAire agus an Rialtais sásta leanúint den cháin sin a ghearradh ach tá siad ag teacht isteach anois agus ag cur cánach eile anuas ar an gcáin sin mar, as seo amach, beidh costas níos airde ar phetrol agus íle le díol ag lucht tiomána gluaisteán.

Ach siad an pobal á íocfaidh as sa deireadh thiar thall mar ní bheidh lucht na ngluaisteán sásta an cháin nua seo d'iompar, is iad sin, na daoine a mbíonn gluaisteáin le híreáil acu. Agus geallaimse dhuit, a Leas-Chinn Chomhairle, go bhfuil mórán daoine eile ann agus gluaisteáin acu a bhfuil géarghá acu díobh chun a gcuid gnótha a dhéanamh.

Is mór an difríocht a bhíonn idir dhaoine nuair a bhíonn siad ar na binsí ar thaobh an Rialtais agus na daoine céanna nuair a bhíonn siad ar na binsí i gcoinne an Rialtais. Tá an difríocht sin le feiscint go soiléir i láthair na huaire. Mar adúrt, níl sa Cháinfhaisnéis seo atá ós comhair na Dála anois le dhá lá acht lag-iarracht chun an costas maireachtála agus na cánacha d'ísliú. Fé mar adúrathas cheana, níl ag éirí leis an Rialtas ceachtar den dá Chuspóir a bhaint amach.

I would describe this as a juggler's Budget. It is as fine a piece of financial juggling as we have seen for a long time. We were told by the Deputies opposite, who now form the Coalition Government, both during the election campaign and afterwards that they were out to reduce taxation by £10,000,000; not merely that, but that they were going to bring down the cost of living. I submit that they have done neither one nor the other. In fact, it seems to me that the opposite is the case, because as regards taxation, apart from the removal of the taxes imposed by the Supplementary Budget last October, it appears to me that taxation will go up as a result of this Budget.

Starting from what point? From last Autumn?

I am proceeding now with my speech. I am making my speech in my own way. If the Minister has not been listening to my opening statement, I cannot help it.

Go ahead then.

For the Minister's information, I was saying that, instead of reducing taxation, we are going to raise it by this Budget and I shall proceed to explain to the House how this is going to happen. Last year when the Supplementary Budget was introduced by the Fianna Fáil Minister for Finance, there was an increased tax put on motor vehicles. The colleagues of the present Minister fulminated against that tax. They stated it was unjust and, so keenly did they feel about it, that they called for a Division, and that tax on motor vehicles was opposed on a Division by the Fine Gael Party, backed up, I think, by the Clann na Talmhan Party.

We are now facing another tax, an indirect tax, on motorists by way of an increase in the price of petrol. That is what we are getting now instead of a reduction in taxation. Let nobody tell me that the people who use motor vehicles are all rich, well-off people. They certainly are not. Many people have to use motor cars for the conduct of their ordinary business. In any case, it appears to me that when there is an imposition of that kind put upon people who have to purchase petrol and oil, such as taxi and hackney drivers, rather than suffer the loss, those people will naturally pass it on to the travelling public, who will have to bear their portion of the increased taxation on petrol. I do not see what justification there was for the increase in the price of petrol. I imagine that the price is high enough at the present time. But, of course people who own motor cars, people who use motor cars, are looked upon as a small section of the community and a section who do not count for very much. But, as I said, the impact of this taxation is not likely to rest on those who drive motor cars, such as hackney and taxi drivers. They will pass it on to the travelling public.

Then take the question of the proposed and much-vaunted reduction in the cost of living. There is to be no reduction in the cost of living, so far as I can see. If anybody can point out to me where there is any provision in this Budget for a reduction in the cost of living I would be very thankful if he would do so. On the contrary, there is to be indirectly an increase in the cost of living. Tea and sugar will be dearer now for those people who conduct hotels and catering establishments. As in the case of those who drive motor cars for hire and who will not be satisfied, I think, to bear the impact of the increased cost of petrol, so also those who own catering establishments, if they have to pay an increased price for tea and sugar, will naturally pass it on to the consumers. There are many people, even comparatively poor people, who have to have their meals away from home, and these people will have to bear some of the burden that is being put on those who conduct hotels and catering establishments. Also, oatmeal and margarine will be dearer.

During the recent election Deputies opposite made the welkin ring about increased production from farm and factory. Is there anything in this Budget to indicate that there is any provision whatsoever being made for an increase of production from the land? I have searched the Minister's statement in vain to get any evidence that it is the intention of the Government to take steps to increase production on the land. No doubt, an increase of agricultural production was a grand slogan for an election campaign. Now that the people who made use of that slogan have the reins of Government in their hands, one would imagine that one of the first steps taken would be to make the necessary provision for increased production from the land.

In the recent debate here on the Vote on Account I referred to the prices the farmers were getting for their produce, especially the dairy farmers. I pointed out that since the price for milk was fixed last year certain changes have taken place which would justify the farmers in looking for an increase in the price of milk and butter. Agricultural wages have gone up since then. Rates and charges have gone up since then. One would expect, therefore, that the Minister, in presenting this Budget to the House, would make some reference to the prices the farmers are getting for their milk and produce, especially the dairy farmers, because I regard dairying as the backbone of our Irish agriculture. The farmers are getting no relief under this Budget so far as I can see. There is no evidence to be adduced from the Budget that the Government intend to stimulate production from the land by the only natural method there is for doing so, namely, by price inducement.

Now, I remember the Minister himself referring in this House to our sterling balances. I gathered from some of his remarks on the occasions that he spoke about these that he was sceptical about the advantages of our possessing those sterling balances abroad. I wonder is he of the same opinion still? I do not think he is, because, having changed from this side of the House to the Government side, he is a much wiser man. I think that our sterling balances abroad will be of great benefit to us.

Did you see what Deputy Lemass said about them?

I was not here.

At a Fianna Fáil gathering the other day.

What did he say?

He wondered if it was worth having paper claims. I will get the quotation for you if you like.

Did the Minister agree with that?

The Minister himself said it several times. I think there is evidence to that effect, but, of course, having control of the national purse now the Minister is a different man from what he was when he was sitting on the Opposition Benches. In any case, I think it is advantageous to have those sterling balances at the present time, having regard to our adverse trade balance, and seeing that our imports exceed our exports considerably.

On the occasion of the debate on the Supplementary Budget the present Minister deplored the fact that it was thought necessary to peg down wages for the working man. He deplored the fact that the Government thought it wise to do so in order to restrain inflationary tendencies in this country, and as for the present Minister for Social Welfare he nearly made us all shed tears on that occasion lamenting the case of the down-trodden working man whose wages, he said, were miserably low and were kept low by Government action.

Yet, judging by the Minister's Budget statement this year the Minister or his Government is not inclined to increase the wages of the working man. In fact, the Minister has stated now in clear, unequivocal language that he will not allow wages to rise.

We were talking at two different times.

One time was late in 1947 and the other is early in 1948.

Even so, there has been a big change.

A few months of a difference.

With extra wages given.

Nothing worth speaking about. I am not going into the question of wages in detail. I am merely referring to the attitude that the Minister himself took up on that occasion and to the attitude of the Minister for Social Welfare, the erstwhile champion of the workers, in connection with a workman's wages. Now, the workman is told that on no account whatever is he to look for increased wages.

Do you believe that he should?

That is not my responsibility. I am in opposition now, and that is your responsibility over there. You sought for the reins of Government and you have got them. You have the authority to do what you think is necessary for all sections of the Irish people, and it is not my responsibility to advise you as to what you should do.

Did you say that last October?

I come now to the question of old age pensions, pensions for the blind and widows' and orphans' pensions. We saw in the papers recently statements made by the Minister for Social Welfare and by other members on the opposite side as to what they were going to do for the recipients of old age pensions, of blind pensions and of widows and orphans, but after all the talk and all the promises that have been given by Deputies opposite, we find that in most cases the increase in old age pensions will be 2/6, and in some cases 5/-. That would not be too bad if it were the Minister's intention to put these increases into effect right away. The Minister, however, has announced that they are to come into operation at some future date. What is the cause of the procrastination in this case? Why will not the Minister take his courage in his hands and make the increases operative from to-day?

Old age pensions? The Deputy sat behind the old rate for 15 years and now he is complaining about a two months' delay.

I am talking about the statements which were made by the Minister and his colleagues during the election campaign. The Minister also said that he proposes to increase the widows' and orphans' pensions, but he has not specified any amount. That question, also, has been relegated to the future. But let us see where the Minister is going to get the money for these things? As far as I can make out, the sum involved is the modest one of £600,000, a very small sum when one takes into account the amount of money that is being spent on these social services at the present time. The Minister proposes to increase the contributions for national health insurance, of unemployment insurance and so on. In other words, those people will be compelled to pay for the increase that the Minister proposes to effect in the case of old age pensions and widows' and orphans' pensions. As far as I can see, he is taking money from one section of the people and giving it to others. I do not propose to hold the House very much longer, except to say that I am very disappointed with this Budget.

We felt that some way.

Indeed, I could gather from the faint-hearted applause that came from certain benches on the opposite side of the House yesterday that some of them over there were just as disappointed as I with the provisions of the present Budget, especially those people who went down the country during the last election campaign, who went as far as my constituency and told the workers there that if they got into power they would ensure a minimum wage of £4 10s. 0d. a week for them.

£6 a week in County Meath.

The bidding was not nearly so high in my constituency.

We get £52 a month and we do not work half as hard.

The Deputy had a question down to-day about that and did not get very much satisfaction from the Minister for Finance, but that is a matter between the Minister and the Deputy.

If the Deputy does not work he will not be long here.

The Deputy has been a long time here and he has not done much work.

The workers in my constituency were told that they would be guaranteed a minimum wage of £4 10s. 0d. a week.

Do you disagree with that?

What is the use of my disagreeing or agreeing with anything at present?

Do you think it is too high?

It depends on the type of worker you refer to. In any event these speakers in my constituency told the workers that they would be guaranteed a minimum wage of £4 10s. Od. a week.

Deputy de Valera said £2 10s. 0d. a week.

He said nothing of the kind, and you know it. I know very well that if there is any man more than another in this country who did his utmost to uplift the working man it is Deputy de Valera. Now instead of paying this minimum wage of £4 10s. 0d. a week, the workers are advised by the Minister in his Budget statement not to look for any increase at all, as any increase that might be granted might have an inflationary effect on the country's economy. I think the workers know where they stand now.

Tá mo chuid beagnach ráite agam ar an gCáinfhaisnéis. Dúirt mé i dtosach nach rabhas sásta leis in aon chor, agus dá n-innseodh cuid de na daoine ar an dtaobh thall an fhírinne agus an rud atá ina n-aigne, déarfaidís an rud céanna—ná fuilid sásta leis an gCáinfhaisnéis seo atá curtha ós comhair na Dála ag an Aire. Na rudaí adúradar i rith an toghcháin, agus na geallúintí a thugadar uathu, níl siad á gcomhlíonadh. Níl, ná aon ní dá shórt. Do chuireadar an dubh 'na gheal ar na daoine bochta ar fud an tíre, i dtaobh na maitheasaí a bhí i ndán dóibh dá ndéanaidís an Rialtas d'thrú. Go bfóire Dia orthu.

Fiú amháin, na daoine atá ag cur isteach ar phinsin sean-aoise, agus ar phinsin baintreacha agus dílleachtaithe dúradar go rabhdar chun seo agus siúd a dhéanamh dóibh. Ní bhéidh le fáil ag formhór na bpinsinéirí sean-aoise ach leath-choróinn sa bhreis agus níl fhios agam fós cad é an méid breise a tabharfar dos na baintrigh agus na dílleachtaithe agus cathain a tabharfar dóibh é. Níor chuir an tAire é sin in iúl dúinn. Nuair bhí na daoine atá ar an dtaobh thall anois ar an dtaobh seo den Tigh bhíodar ag rá gur cheart níos mó airgid a sholáthar do na seirbhísí seo ach anois nuair atá sé de chúram orthu cúrsaí an Stáit a stiúrú tá a mhalairt de phort acu ar fad.

Fé mar adúrt, níl aon fhaoiseamh gur fiú tracht air le fáil ins an gCáinfhaisnéis seo maidir leis an costas beatha agus le eánacha a laghdú. Tá an costas beatha chomh hard anois agus a bhí sé aon uair le 6 nó 7 mbliana agus ní fheicim cad tá á dhéanamh ag an Aire ná ag an Rialtas chun é do laghdú. Sin é an rud is mó a theastaíonn ó na daoine faoi láthair, agus an tAire nó an Rialtas d'fhéadfadh é sin a dhéanamh, bheadh rud mór déanta acu ar son gnáth-mhuintir na tíre seo. Tá na cánacha ag tuitim go trom ar mhuintir na tíre, anathrom ar fad, agus go mórmhór ar na daoine atá ag díol rátaí leis na comhairlí contae. Tá na srathanna áitiúla ag dul in áirde in aghaidh an lae agus tá costaisí i bhfad níos mó anois ar na feirmeoirí agus ar dhaoine eile den tsórt sin ná mar bhí le roinnt blian anuas. Is dóigh liomsa go bhfuil an t-am ag teacht nuair ba cheart rud éigin a dhéanamh chun na costaisí atá ar mhuintir na tuaithe—a ghearradh anuas. Maidir le lucht na gcathrach agus na mbailte móra, tá daoine eile ann i ndon ceist na ndaoine sin a phlé ach is iad muintir na tuaithe a bhfuil mise ag plé ar a son anois. Tá costaisí áirithe ar lucht díolta na srathanna n-áitiúil nár cheart a áireamh ar na srathanna in aon chor. Ba cheart iad a chur ar an Roinn Airgeadais agus tá súil agam go bhfuil an lá ag teacht nuair a déanfar é sin.

Maidir lem chontae féin, tá na srathanna i gCiarraidhe níos airde ná na srathanna in aon chontae eile sa tír faoi láthair. Tháinig Roinnt feirmeoirí le chéile le déana mar gheall air sin agus shocraíodar ar iarratas a chur go dtí an Rialtas á iarraidh ar an Rialtas deontas a chur ar fáil chun an Ráta i gCiarraidhe d'ísliú. Níl a fhios agam an mbéidh an Rialtas toilteannach an deontas sin a thabhairt. Bhféidir go bhfaighmís é sin amach tar éis tamaill.

Níl na daoine ar an dtaobh seo den Tigh sásta leis an ráiteas a chur an Aire ós comhair na Dála. Bhíomar ag súil go mbeadh i bhfad níos mó faoisimh le fáil. Tuigim go maith ná fuil an tAire i bhfad ag plé leis an scéal seo. Níl sé féin agus a Rialtas ach cúpla mí i réim. Pé'r domhan é ba mhaith linn fhios a bheith againn i dtaobh an treo ina bhfuil siad ag dul. Nil aon laghdú cánach ná aon laghdú ar an gchostas beatha ins an gCáinfhaisnéis seo, agus dá bhrí sin ba cheart don Dáil gan glacadh leis.

I understand from a remark which you, Sir, made to-day, that I am not permitted to apply the term "buffoonery" to the speeches of any member of this Assembly. That being so, I can only characterise the performance we have witnessed here from Deputy Lemass and Deputy Kissane as rank hypocrisy. I should prefer to use, if I could, a somewhat milder term. We witnessed yesterday evening and also this afternoon the spectacle of Deputy Lemass whipping himself up into a frenzy of froth in fulminating against this Budget, when every one of us knows that there is not one Deputy opposite who would not give his right arm to be able to claim that a Budget such as this was introduced in any year in which Fianna Fáil were in office. Every Deputy sitting opposite knows that, and knows that we know that, and that is where the hypocrisy comes in.

We hear these people complaining about the Budget. Do any of them, if they are sincere at all, consider what this Budget would have been, had there not been a change of Government? I have not been long here and I am not as experienced in reading the Estimates as Deputy Kissane, who, in another effort some time ago, dealt with the £ being worth only 8/-.

I was quoting the Minister on that occasion.

I am not making any point of it at this stage.

I never said anything about 8/-. That was the Deputy's own argument.

It was 10/-.

On the basis of the Estimates presented to this House and prepared before this Government took office, the taxpayers had nothing to look forward to but substantially increased taxation, if they had permitted the formation of a Fianna Fáil Government. We hear Deputy Lemass, in his own sardonic way, jeering at the Minister for Finance and saying: "You promised a reduction of £10,000,000 in taxation." I want to make this claim, that the presentation of this Budget effects a reduction of £6,500,000, at any rate, on what a Budget presented by Fianna Fáil would have been.

There is a comparatively small increase in the price of petrol. My own view for what it is worth is that petrol could have stood an increase of 3d. or 4d. more than has been imposed under this Budget. That is, however, the only increase. As against that you have valuable concessions made to the old age pensioners. I remember listening from the public gallery here to a debate on a motion tabled by either the Labour Party or the Fine Gael Party for an increase in old age pensions only last year or the year before. I remember well the reply given by Deputy Aiken, the then Minister for Finance. He said that there was then no money and that he could not raise more money to do it. He said that he could not possibly grant any increase. We came along a little bit nearer to the election and, of course, some concession had to be made. Already the Minister for Finance, who has only been a couple of months in office, has been able to do more for the old age pensioners than anything done by Fianna Fáil in their 16 years of office.

Deputy Lemass talked about the saving effected under the Defence Vote. He had the audacity to say, despite the facts put before him when that Vote was under discussion here, that for the sake of economising on the Army we were destroying the efficiency of our whole defence organisation. I believe that Deputy Lemass knows, as every Deputy in this House knows, that that statement is sheer nonsense. Every Deputy on the Opposition Benches is well aware that the actual decrease in manpower is something under 800 men. I do not know what type of defence organisation Deputy Lemass visualises if he is under the impression that the efficiency of the whole defence organisation will be destroyed by a reduction of 800 men.

Deputy Kissane describes this Budget as a juggler's Budget. I would like to say to Deputy Kissane that, if this is a juggler's Budget, the people outside this House will say and are saying now: "More power to the arm of the juggler who is able to present a Budget like this."

I think it was Deputy Lemass who, in the process of indulging in a taunt at the expense of the national teachers, criticised the decision of the Minister for Finance in relation to the tax on wines. I wonder has Deputy Lemass bothered to read the Minister's statement at all? It is perfectly obvious from the statement made by the Minister that the continuance of the tax on wine not alone would not have produced more revenue but would probably have decreased revenue still further. The Minister has shown to my satisfaction, at any rate, and I think to the satisfaction of every Deputy who has either listened to his statement or taken the trouble to read it, that the only course open to him was to reduce that particular tax. At page 12 of the statement made by the Minister he refers first of all to the reduced customs duty on wines and to the fact that they were doubled in 1946 and doubled again in the Supplementary Budget. He points out that at the time of the last increase it was anticipated that revenue for the balance of the financial year would be augmented by £220,000, giving a yield for a full year of £840,000; in fact, the yield was something about £200,000 less than that. I believe that the Minister in removing the tax has taken a step which is both sensible and logical.

Deputy Kissane spent some time endeavouring to convince the House that the people of this country were expecting a reduction in the cost of living under this Government and that this Government had undertaken to reduce the cost of living. I am firmly convinced that this Government will reduce the cost of living and that it will do so within the next 12 months. I state further that in every year of the 16 years that Fianna Fáil were in office the cost of living increased. It did not merely increase in the war years. It increased every year since 1932 and there is now a 16 years' accumulative effect to be dealt with by the present Minister for Finance.

I have every confidence that he will deal with it, and deal with it successfully before he presents his Budget here next year. So far as the ordinary working man is concerned the real cost of living has been reduced for him already. I am not quite clear as to what statistics are used in computing the cost-of-living index figure but I do know that by the removal of the taxes imposed on beer, tobacco and cinema seats under the Supplementary Budget there has been a real decrease in the cost of living for those who indulge in a pint of beer, in a packet of cigarettes or a visit to the cinema once a week. I know from the views expressed to me during the course of the general election that the average person in Dublin would have preferred to see food subsidies reduced in order that those taxes could be removed. I have no doubt that that is the view of the great majority of the people in the country. They would have preferred to see food subsidies reduced and the price of some articles of foodstuffs raised rather than suffer these taxes. In hard cash these taxes meant to them a loss at the end of every week. They lost rather than gained by the imposition of these taxes in the jugglery which was indulged in by the late Minister for Finance. I would like Deputies to consider very briefly some of the other matters in which economies were effected or will be effected.

First, it might be as well to look upon some of the big-prestige operations of the previous Government. It may possibly be that the general failing of politicians is that they talk too much. Whether that is a general failing or not, there is no doubt that Deputy Lemass talks too much. I am very surprised at the effrontery of Deputy Lemass in addressing himself to this Budget at all when one considers that the really big wastages which occurred over the past few years, at enormous cost to the taxpayers, were in the Department over which Deputy Lemass then presided. We have already seen the loss incurred by the Deputy Lemass sponsored Córas Iompair Éireann of approximately £1,000,000. We saw the loss incurred by the Deputy Lemass sponsored air lines, none of which, I think, has paid. There was one discontinued by the present Government with the full approval of the people. We saw the position which Deputy Lemass allowed to occur with regard to turf and fuel generally.

We saw the previous Government going from one extreme to another. One year there was an extreme shortage of fuel and the people of this city shivered for a considerable length of time. In the short space of 12 months Deputy Lemass, who was then in charge of the Department of Industry and Commerce, had gone completely to the other side of the scale. On the first evening when this Government took office we heard Deputy Lemass saying from his seat over there that the new Government need not now have any fears with regard to fuel. On the calculations he gave he showed that, between wood and turf, there was approximately a seven years' supply in the Phoenix Park to meet the needs of the people of Dublin. That meant wood and turf alone, leaving out of consideration entirely the coal that has since come in. With that position existing, there was fuel being put into the Phoenix Park at a cost of £40,000 per week to the Irish taxpayer. That was allowed to continue by Deputy Lemass. It was stopped later.

Only the other day we heard a statement from the Minister for Industry and Commerce about luxury hotels and other luxury erections of one kind or another. There again we had another Deputy Lemass sponsored programme which was costing the taxpayers an enormous amount of money. Let us reflect on these things. If we are to give any consideration to what the ordinary person says with reference to the cost of living and to taxation, surely this would be the very worst time either to indulge in that type of expenditure or allow it to be continued. I think it would, at any rate, and that is one of the reasons I am pleased with this Budget. I think the Budget will be welcomed by all sections of the people, and that it will be welcomed very heartily by numbers of those who formerly supported Fianna Fáil.

The Budget imposes no undue hardships on any section. I am quite sure Deputies opposite will do whatever they can to criticise this Budget. I will say this for Deputy Lemass, that he is a good man to stand over a bad case and make the best out of it. He set a headline here this afternoon. He did his best, but his best was very poor. There was nothing into which he could get his teeth. The only thing anyone can criticise is the increased taxation on petrol. At the moment petrol is a rationed commodity. The average car driver in this country drives a ten horse-power car. The allowance he receives each month is something like ten gallons. At the worst all the Budget can mean to him will be that he will pay an additional 50 pence a month. That is the sum total of the new taxation so far as the average driver in this country is concerned. As against that he gets the concessions which are outlined in the Budget.

Another feature of the Budget which makes the task of Deputies opposite extremely difficult is the fact that the tea ration is going to be increased. I would like to congratulate the Minister on that step. From my knowledge that step is receiving a widespread welcome outside.

Budgets have become very serious events in the lives of the people and in the life of the Government. I remember when Fine Gael was called, I think, Cumann na nGaedheal, they introduced a Budget here and took a shilling off the old age pensions. It was not very long after that that they ceased to be a Government. Therefore, I take it that there is a good deal of natural sentiment in the country for the old age pensioners, and that is a very redeeming feature. As well as I can remember—and if I am making an incorrect statement I hope that I will be corrected—I understood from what I could read and hear from all the Parties, except the Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil Parties, that the promise was £1 a week or more for the old age pensioners. Now they are going to get, roughly, 2/6.

17/6 a week.

That is a general statement, but when it is brought down to brass tacks I take it that it would be 2/6.

If the county councils refuse to put up the other 2/6—and they are pretty well overburdened— there would not appear to be very much increase at all. I hope that at some future date this country will be in a position to give a really beneficial allowance to the aged people. In fact I hope that the day will come when every person over 70 years of age will be entitled to some reward from the whole community, but I do not think that we are facing that way because we seem to misunderstand a number of things.

I just heard one of the Deputies opposite tell us that this Budget was going to be a great benefit to the community. I think that this Budget is a disaster and that is my candid opinion. We have started by taxing petrol. It is only a week ago since it went up a penny. Now 5d. has been put on, making an increase of 6d. In County Meath, the county I come from, we supply quite a lot of milk to Dublin and it is supplied in lorries. I wonder who is going to pay the tax there.

Who paid it in 1946?

That does not matter. I want to know who is going to pay it now.

Whoever paid it in 1946.

One thing I am certain about is that I hope that farmer producers will not have to pay it.

Did they pay it in 1946?

That was a different matter. There was a war on.

The war was over for six months at the time.

Who is going to pay it? Is it not the poor of Dublin who must pay it, the householders of Dublin? Can that be denied? I hope that the farmer producer will not have to pay it and I think that he should not be asked to pay it even if we could compel him to do so.

Farmers were asked here by every one of us on all sides of the House to become as modern as possible. A number of farmers—I do not know how many exactly, though I can give the number in the Twenty-six Counties —purchased a modern machine known as the Ferguson tractor. It is an extremely suitable machine for small farmers and for cottage gardens. It has an elevator, it is light and very handy. There are 1,500 of these machines in use in the Twenty-six Counties, and I understand from their manufacturers that 500 more are going out. Therefore 2,000 farmers cultivate their land and use this machine and we are going to tax them. I know that the Minister did not know all that, but this is a development and it is a modern method of doing things. It is suitable for any patch of land and I have seen one working. I have not got one and I do not know anything about that kind of tractor, but I know a number of farmers who do. I hope that the Minister will recognise his mistake and that when the Financial Bill comes in, he will rectify it.

How many gallons does that use?

I do not know that, but no matter how many it uses they are taxed now to the tune of 5d. and that is not good policy.

I heard Deputy O'Higgins talking about the users of ten horse-power motor cars. The car I use is a ten horse-power car and I can always manage to cut down the use of petrol in one way or another and escape the tax, but what about the lorries which use any amount of petrol? I suppose that within a radius of 50 miles of Dublin all goods are carried in lorries and I wonder who is going to pay the tax there. It seems that some very urgent reason compelled the Minister to do that foolish thing and the reason was that in an absent-minded moment it was thought that it might be good politics during the election to tell the people that it was an awful calamity on them to have a bottle of stout taxed 1d., the pint taxed something else and cigarettes something else. Having done that, they could not go back on it and they are in a mess. I do not know what figure is going to be collected on this tax. I do not know whether it is £600,000 or £900,000.

It is £900,000.

That is a very good lump for the community of Dublin and of the country to put up. I think that that system is not a good system.

I do not use the buses very much. People who live in the country only come now and again to Dublin and it does not matter very much, but it is the bread-winners of Dublin who have to use the buses who are going to pay the tax on crude oil. Is it not the workers? I was sorry that Deputy Larkin had to sit down last night. He seems to have been persuaded that he belongs to some combination and that he could not speak.

You will hear from him again. He was speaking here before ever you came and will continue.

I will be here again and the reason is that I always did my best, particularly for the people you are now victimising.

It is a wonder that they are in such bad condition then.

They are not in a bad condition, or rather, they may be since you and your Party formed a Coalition Government. As far as I know the position is that they were well looked after. The agricultural community and the workers were as well looked after as possible but if we did not come into power I wonder what the position would be. I remember in the Cumann na nGaedheal days that at the county council meetings in Navan there used to be at least 300 workers at every meeting looking for work. The wages then were only 7/- a week; only occasional farmers employed them; they were actually in misery and there was nobody there to defend them. A member of some Labour organisation did come there immediately after the war and made some little effort.

What war is the Deputy talking about?

There was no organiser and Fianna Fáil had to come to their assistance to give them some status, and a legal status at that. I think that this tax on petrol in a modern country is a great misfortune. I know perfectly well that the cause is that the Minister for Finance had no other way out of it. No one would think that we were such fools when the Budget was introduced that we were going to do something that would do us an injury.

The people thought so.

Since we were turned out and the Coalition Government came into power they are completely puzzled as to what to do and they make this attempt to get £900,000 out of petrol and to make the community, the poorer section of the community, pay it. It is a misfortune. It is a short-sighted policy to impede farmers who desire to adopt the most modern methods. I do not intend further to emphasise that point because I am sure the Minister for Finance will make some provisions in the Finance Bill to protect them.

Quite a number of cattle come into County Meath during spring. In recent years the cattle have been conveyed by lorry. There was no coal and trains had ceased to run. Many farmers consider that transport by lorry is the best and most modern system. A lorry cannot be operated now at the same price at which it was operated formerly. Again, I want to know who will pay. I hope Deputy Dillon will appeal to the British Government for some little increase in the price of cattle to compensate for the increased cost of transport.

Deputy O'Higgins referred to the turf that was brought into the Phoenix Park. I wonder how much turf was brought into the Phoenix Park. If anything happened now and there was a sudden outbreak of war how long would that turf last?

How long does it last in any case? Does the Deputy know that?

Dry turf lasts a considerable time.

Would the Deputy like to go out to the Park?

I saw it and I have just as much experience as the Deputy.

I am sure you have.

There were years, of course, when the turf was not what you would call——

——excellent. It was not in perfect condition. There were other years——

There were years when it was nothing but raw field.

The day may come when we will be glad to have it.

Turf, yes, but not the turf you gave us. We are talking about turf, not raw field.

Were not we doing our best to modernise the production of turf and have not you turned round and reduced the funds that helped towards that development? No principle should be accepted more than the principle of making use of whatever we have in this country.

Hear, hear!

The most dreary sight is to be seen on the bogs in County Meath. In the last week or ten days there has not been a soul working on them. On one bog I have seen well over 1,000 people working. I am not referring to workmen but to families and young people who got a living there.

Why cannot they work still?

There is no hope for them because there is no encouragement. If there is no encouragement, how can they work?

Does the Deputy mean that they worked only during the emergency?

They were encouraged to work when they knew there was a market for their turf. The Minister wants to put them back to the position they were in when they simply went from house to house and from town to town trying to sell a bit of turf. What I want to know is, bad and all as that stuff was, suppose we had not had it during the war, what would have happened? Some of it was bad, but if we had not had it what would have happened? Was not every effort made to modernise the methods of saving turf?

Would the Deputy say why coal was taken off the ration?

The Deputy is in possession and young Deputies here must realise that a Deputy or Minister is entitled to make his speech.

He is very provocative.

Deputies get impatient. After a while they will get into the procedure.

It is my opinion that, instead of withdrawing financial assistance, every encouragement should be given to the development of modern methods of saving turf.

There never were 1,000 people on turf schemes in Meath.

Did not I explain fairly clearly that I do not mean the people that worked for the county council? I mean the families and the people who came out of towns. I am telling you the truth. Whether it was economic or not, it was most edifying to see them working on the bogs.

If they were not helped by being on turf schemes, they did the work that naturally was there for them. Why is not it there now?

Because there is such competition with coal there now.

There was always competition with coal in Meath.

Indeed there was not. There was not a bit of coal to be got during the war.

I am talking about pre-war.

Pre-war, yes. There was a certain amount of turf even pre-war.

Why should not they——

The Minister will have the last word in this debate.

I would like to get the figures. The Deputy is not objecting.

I want the Minister to be clear that I am not talking about the unemployed men and there are quite a few of them unemployed. I am talking about the families that went out to cut turf. That gave some sign of industry. It was always very elevating to see them at work and it is a pity that they could not be encouraged in some way or other.

I agree and I do not see any discouragement.

We will see the results. As I have said, Budgets are most important in the lives of the people. We see a very peculiar situation arising in connection with this Budget. We see the community penalised; we see the farmers penalised to some extent; we see the workers in the towns penalised and we see, on behalf of wine importers, the duty on wine removed. It may be that the import of wine was a declining industry or it may not be but the facts stand out quite clearly that the wine importers succeeded in getting a great relief.

They are giving me £250,000.

Whereas the rest of the community did not. There was the greatest propaganda in regard to the teachers. I do not see a word about them or any provision for them in this Budget. It may happen that something will be done later. There was very vigorous propaganda about them and they played a very active part but evidently they did not play as active a part as the publicans.

We of the Clann na Poblachta Party feel that we must accord to this Budget a welcome, even though it may be accompanied by certain reservations. This Government, despite Deputy Lemass's attempts to suggest that it is a Fine Gael Government, is not a Clann na Poblachta Government any more than it is a Fine Gael Government. It is an inter-Party Government, composed of members of all Parties in the House with the exception of one Party and the Budget that is presented cannot be described as a Clann na Poblachta Budget.

It certainly cannot.

Mr. Lehane

The Budget is in accord with the ten-point programme openly arrived at by the members of every Party with the exception of the Fianna Fáil Party. We welcome this Budget because it implements in part the promises that we of Clann na Poblachta made to the people during the recent general election campaign. We welcome it particularly because of the provision made for increased allowances to old age pensioners, to widows, to blind persons and to orphans. An attempt has been made to belittle the provision made for the old age pensioners. I am not to be taken, nor are we on these benches to be taken, as suggesting that the provision is as full and as adequate as we would like to make it; but we say this to the Minister for Finance—that he has done more for the old age pensioners in three months than the Party opposite did in 16 years in office.

If we were in a position to operate our own policy, to implement it as fully as we wish, this possibly is not the Budget that we would expect a Clann na Poblachta Minister for Finance to bring in. Deputy Lemass, yesterday in particular and again to-day, attempted to make great capital out of the fact that the reduction in taxation which, he suggested, had been promised by all the Parties had not arrived. We welcome this Budget—and these are the realities of the case and they can be stated in a few very simple words—because it imposes no increased burdens on that section of the community least able to bear them; we welcome it because provision is made for sections of the community unable properly to provide for themselves. Our welcome is tinged with reservations, but it is only to that extent that there are any reservations about the welcome that we give it.

Deputy Lemass suggested yesterday that we should throw up our hands in horror that no reduction had been made in taxation. We on these benches never made a fetish of the reduction of taxation.

You did to the electors.

Mr. Lehane

We on these benches never made a fetish of the reduction of taxation for reduction's sake. On many occasions during the recent general election campaign it was pointed out by the Clann na Poblachta speakers to the electors that we considered the test to be the incidence of taxation and the capacity of the section of the community upon which it fell, rather than the actual amount of taxation raised.

Where has the incidence been changed?

The Deputy will have an opportunity of intervening if he desires to do so.

Mr. Lehane

The incidence of taxation does not now bear upon those sections of the community least able to bear it. We welcome this Budget for another reason; despite the attempts made from the benches opposite to prove otherwise, this Budget provides for no reduction in social services but rather for their increase. Were it to provide for any real reduction in social services, we in Clann na Poblachta would not welcome it but would oppose it.

There are other matters mentioned by the Minister for Finance during the course of his statement which, perhaps, we regretted. We regret—I am sure the Minister himself regrets it— the necessity for closing down the short-wave station. I, personally, make the Deputies opposite a present of that. I regret that it was necessary to close it down. I would urge upon the Minister that, if there is valuable equipment in the country, if three of the four masts have been already erected, such steps should be taken as would make it possible to keep that equipment in order and repair, so that next year or the year after we may be in a position to go ahead with the plans for the erection of a short-wave station. As I understand it at the moment, were there a short-wave station erected, no arrangements were made by the Ministers opposite when they were in office for any wave-length to be accorded to it.

That is so.

Mr. Lehane

We could be in this position at the moment, that we would have a short-wave station which would not have a wave length.

That is not a correct statement of the case.

It is absolutely the fact.

It is not a correct statement. Several months were spent in preparing with a view to getting a short wave length.

But it was not got.

No other country has come to any agreement.

Mr. Lehane

As I understand it, the conference which will allocate the short waves to the different broadcasting systems in different countries will not be held until next September.

That is right.

Mr. Lehane

And we have no guarantee that the wave length will be available for us.

There are preliminary agreements between certain parties.

I would like to see them.

If the Minister would make inquiries——

I have made inquiries.

Mr. Lehane

Naturally, I am not in a position to controvert the statements of the former Minister for Posts and Telegraphs; but it is significant that he is not in a position to deny that at the moment we have not been allotted any short wave length. Despite that fact, plans were proceeded with for the erection of this costly short-wave station.

If you had not the plans, you would not get a wave length, ever.

The former Minister started the plans in 1945, to look for a wave length in 1948.

And you got the plant. The agreement was attempted.

And it failed.

I understand there is one Deputy speaking, not three. I shall hear Deputy Lehane and no one else on this.

Mr. Lehane

I must say that I found Deputy Little's interruptions very helpful, because they have at least made this much manifest, that what I merely had as third-hand information, namely, that we had not been yet allocated a short wave, was apparently perfectly accurate, and I am grateful to Deputy Little for the assistance he has given to us.

It distorts the whole thing.

Mr. Lehane

In the course of his statement, the Minister mentioned his desire to arrest what he described as an inflationary trend. I should like to urge on the Minister as a general principle the proposition that inflation can best be countered by increasing productivity, and I would urge upon him also that no capital expenditure calculated to increase the national productivity should be vetoed by him by reason of what I hope he will forgive me for describing as his apparent predilection for retrenchment. We of the Clann na Poblachta Party believe that only by a policy of equating currency and credit to the national needs of full employment and full production can we ever put our economy on a sound basis.

If this Budget were the responsibility of the ten Clann na Poblachta Deputies who are on these benches we would probably approach this matter in a different way. There are possible economies that we would seek to make which the Minister has not made. I would have liked to suggest to the Minister that his axe could have fallen perhaps with some effect and with some benefit to the community on the amount of expenditure on the Presidential establishment, on the salaries of Ministers and the allowances of Deputies and Senators. Perhaps from the point of view of an increased revenue yield, we would have considered the reimposition of certain taxes which the Minister apparently decided not to reimpose. The Minister admitted that, while excessive profits are still being taken in a number of industries, at the same time he had decided against the reimposition of the excess corporation profits tax and the excess surtax. The Minister, of course, is in a better position than I am to weigh and consider the possibility of estimating the yield that he would get from the reimposition of these taxes. I would urge upon him, unless in the industries to which he refers there is manifested a speedy reduction in prices to the consumer, that he should seriously consider reimposing these taxes.

He should do it right away.

Mr. Lehane

I hope very sincerely, and I urge this very strongly upon the Minister, that he will not pay the slightest heed to the suggestion made to him by Deputy Lemass that the transport company should be allowed to increase bus fares as a result of this Budget because, in my estimation, there is not the slightest necessity for the transport company to do that and I think there are people sitting on the Front Bench opposite who are very well aware of that fact.

Out of the criticism, out of the plethora of talk that we had, I listened to hear from Deputies opposite one concrete suggestion as to what they would have done if they were in the position of the Minister. I know very well what they would have done. They evaded the issue however; they refrained from telling the people that the pint, the package of cigarettes and the entertainment, the only entertainment open to the ordinary working people of this city and country, would have been subjected once more to the taxes which they imposed when they introduced the Supplementary Budget. That is something Deputy Lemass did not refer to. That is something which we are entitled to know. Would the solution of Deputy Lemass and the Fianna Fáil Minister for Finance have been to reimpose the taxes on beer, on tobacco and on cinemas?

Wine has flown in hogsheads from the Deputies on the benches opposite. We have heard an awful lot about wine. As I understand the Minister's statement, the reason for the reduction of the duty on wine was because the duty previously imposed when the Party opposite was in power had resulted in decreasing the revenue yield from the duty on imported wines. I do not know whether I understood the Minister correctly, but I can see no other construction that can be placed on the words he spoke in the House.

There are many things that we would like to have seen included in this Budget. We do realise that we have to cut our cloth according to our measure. I want to repeat for the benefit of Deputies opposite that this Budget is not a Clann na Poblachta Budget; that this is not a Clann na Poblachta Government, any more than it is a Fine Gael Government; it is an inter-Party Government. There was some curiosity evinced by some Deputies opposite as to whether the Parties comprising this coalition had retained their separate identity. Let there be no mystery about it.

Have you joint responsibility?

You have to answer to the crack of the whip.

Mr. Lehane

We have to answer to the crack of no whip. They have retained their separate identity, and the fact that they have retained their identity and can work together is what needles Deputies opposite so much. In all the circumstances, we feel that we must congratulate the Minister for Finance on the Budget he introduced yesterday. I do not know what the experience of Deputies opposite has been; but from my experience in meeting working people around the city in the few short hours that have elapsed I know the reception this Budget will get in the country. Let there be no mistake about it, it is going to be a very favourable reception. I would like to conclude on this note that, while congratulating the Minister on having confounded the prophets of doom on the opposite side of the House and having proved that the jeremiads were unfounded, at the same time I would like to sympathise with the Deputies opposite who relied so very much on the ammunition that they thought they were going to get from this Budget. Well done, Mr. Minister. As far as the Budget is concerned, Clann na Poblachta will support it.

It appears to me that the Minister, in selecting petrol for extra taxation, decided to do so because the number of private motor vehicles registered in this country since 1946 has been trebled. I think the Minister will agree with me that these figures are not comparable because, in 1946, motoring in this country was only beginning to revive after seven years of restrictions. In my opinion, the Minister's increase in the tax on petrol makes it one of the most heavily taxed commodities in the country at the moment. Its imposition is a shock to people who expected and hoped for a reduction in the cost of living, for this new tax must, of necessity, result in such an increase in the cost of living. Deputy O'Higgins alleges that it will have no such effect in so much as that the average driver in this country drives a ten horse-power car, and that the result in cost to him will amount to approximately about 4/- a month. Deputy O'Higgins's idea of how this increase in the taxation of petrol is going to affect the economy of the country is, to my mind, very puerile.

It is absolutely certain, in my opinion, despite what Deputy Lehane has said, that bus fares must be increased to meet this extra taxation If bus fares are not increased to meet this extra taxation, then I should like to know what the profit and loss account of Córas Iompair Éireann is going to be like at the end of the year. Taxi fares must go up and the cost of hiring cars generally must go up, but more important still, the cost of the collection of raw materials for industry, the cost of production and of the delivery of the finished product all will be affected, and not only these but the cost of the delivery of even bread and other essential foodstuffs will be affected. I should not be at all surprised if, very soon, housewives found themselves presented with a small charge for the delivery of these commodities to their houses.

I am not here to air the hardships of anybody in particular in connection with this Budget, but it is only natural that I should remind the Minister of the additional burden which he is imposing on the members of the profession to which I belong. The burden is going to be very severe on dispensary medical officers who find themselves, and have always found themselves, in the unenviable position of being the only public officials in the country who receive nothing in the way of travelling expenses. Doctors and others will find that this increase in the taxation of petrol will fall very heavily on them. They will be badly hit. Some individuals may not absorb this heavy increase themselves, but unfortunately, my profession is rather shackled by tradition in matters of this kind. We never find ourselves in the happy position of taxi drivers, bus companies or industrial concerns who are able to pass along an extra cost of this kind.

I heard Deputies arguing as to whether the pound is worth 8/- or 10/-. I am not interested in either figure, but I do know that, as a result of this Budget, the doctor's pound is going to be worth a lot less. I would like to advocate strongly the claim of the dispensary doctor who finds himself in a remote area, such as the Gaeltacht where I work and where on very many occasions one has to travel up to 30 miles on calls to which one may be summoned. Even at this stage I would appeal to the Minister to wipe out the increased taxes imposed in last year's Supplementary Budget which I, and I am sure a number of people, were led to believe at the time were purely temporary. It is hardly fair to impose on the motoring public this new petrol tax while the abnormal horse-power tax and restrictions on use, caused by petrol rationing, remain.

Deputy O'Higgins commented adversely on Deputy Lemass's criticism of defence policy, so far as man power is concerned. Admittedly, the reduction in man power amounts, approximately, only to about 800, but I think that the son of the Minister for Defence will agree with me that it is not a question of so infinitesimal a reduction in man power, it is a matter of principle. If we are not going to show that we are prepared, to the limit of our resources, adequately to defend our country, somebody else will, and at a price. Not only do I disapprove of the dropping of recruiting and of the calling up of the reserves, but I would go so far as to advocate the implementing of recruiting and even go so far as to suggest that a modified form of compulsory military service would be introduced, so that the rich man's son, as well as the poor man's son, would be given the opportunity of contributing his quota to the defence of the country to which he belongs. Apart altogether from national duty in a matter of that kind, I would advocate this compulsory military service for reasons of health, physical development and discipline.

Having listened patiently during the last few hours, and yesterday, to the criticisms from the Fianna Fáil Benches on the Budget, I have come to the conclusion that if a stranger were to walk into this House and were to listen to the Deputies opposite he could not but be convinced that here you had a set of men who did not believe in taxation of any kind, a set of high-spirited men who really should have control of the Government of this country—that is, of course, if he did not know their record.

Deputy Lemass was at pains to attack the Labour Party yesterday for its participation in the inter-Party Government. He shed crocodile tears over the condition of the workers in this country, but Deputy Lemass is the one individual whose name to the workers of this country spells low wages, inadequate wages and Wages Standstill Orders. This Budget does not represent to me, nor to the Labour Party, the very ultimate of our aims nor the actual real addition of our policy but it must be realised that the inter-Party Government took control at a time when the country was in a very difficult financial position and, taking the Budget by and large, weighing one thing with another, it cannot be denied but that the present Minister has done fairly well.

The old age pensioners at any rate are very glad to see how their position is to be improved, not as it should be improved or as much as it must be improved eventually, but at any rate improved to a very much greater degree than ever it was under the administration of Fianna Fáil. Deputies who will go into the Lobby to vote against this Budget will simply be following the example which they set last year when they voted against an increase for old age pensioners. They will be doing the same thing on this occasion. I would say that the remarks of the Minister in relation to the Standstill Orders, and the context in which they appear in his statement, are somewhat vague but I take it that they refer to excess profits rather than to wages because, speaking for the trade union movement, I say that we have had enough of Wages Standstill Orders and we shall not accept any further. I am not suggesting and, in fact, I do not think, in case there is any misapprehension on the Fianna Fáil benches, that that was in the mind of the present Minister but I do wish to express disappointment that the excess profits tax was not reimposed. Deputy Lemass in his many criticisms, and the other Fianna Fáil Deputies, did not refer to that particular tax but I wish to refer to it. I consider that it should be reimposed with as little delay as possible and that the collection of that tax should be rigorously pursued.

Beyond question, it is a matter of general agreement that the basic solution to the economic ills of this country is similar to that in every other country—increased production. Increased production is the key to our eventual economic betterment but we shall never achieve increased production in this country unless we realise that the producers, the workers, the men who make the country operate, must be given a proper incentive by way of adequate wages. In agriculture it is sad to think that they do not get that incentive, but rather the contrary.

Deputy O'Reilly in the course of his remarks which I think were not very much in order, and to which I wish to reply, made some sneering references to the work of labour organisations in his own county in bygone years. I do not recall the period about which he spoke; in fact I have a very vague recollection of the era of the Cumann na nGaedheal Government but I do wish to underline the fact that the contribution of Labour organisations to the development of this nation has been immeasurable. It can well be said that, irrespective of the efforts of any Government we have hitherto seen, the working people of this country owe a debt of gratitude to the Labour organisations generally and, I would say, to two men in particular, two men who are not in this House, one of them whose bones lie in Arbour Hill and the other whose remains rest in Glasnevin, and whom we buried only last year. I simply want to underline that for the benefit of Deputy O'Reilly whose sneering remarks I consider to have been very much out of place in this House.

As I have stated, the Budget leaves some things to be desired as far as Labour is concerned but, again, in fairness to the Minister, acknowledging the tremendous task he had to try to reduce the amount that faced him, he must undoubtedly be complimented. I would ask that every possible effort be made to speed up the introduction of the increases for old age pensioners. I would finally make this appeal to the Fianna Fáil Deputies: "If you vote against this Budget you are voting against an increase for old age pensioners. You have professed your love for them and if you want to give effect to that go into the Lobby and vote for the Budget."

Much has been said by the Party opposite concerning this Budget. I think many Deputies, who were present yesterday and who heard Deputy Lemass make his statement to the House, realised that they were listening to a very angry man, to a Deputy who realised that through this Budget something he thought impossible was being done, an angry man because he realised that the introduction of this Budget meant that neither he nor his Party, for many years at any rate, would sit on the benches from which I am now speaking. Following his statement, other Deputies opposite have spoken. They have shed crocodile tears about the tax on petrol and we heard from them the tremendous consequences that are going to follow the additional tax on petrol. We never heard, however, from any single Deputy opposite what provision they would have made to meet the bill which the present Minister had to meet in this Budget. We can assume that if they were in power the tax on beer and stout and the entertainment tax would have remained and that, in addition to these taxes, a Fianna Fáil Minister would have had to find another sum running to £10,000,000. How would that have been found, or would their Budget have been accompanied by the measure of social justice for old age pensioners which they had denied them for 16 years? I am sure that right throughout this country this morning, when the people read the provisions of this Budget, they thanked God it was not a Fianna Fáil Budget introduced by a Fianna Fáil Minister.

Speaking as a member of Fine Gael, I would like to say that I agree with what Deputy Lehane, Deputy Dunne and other Deputies said, that the Budget does not represent everything all and each of us would desire, but we must remember that it is a Budget introduced after 16 years of Fianna Fáil administration, a Budget introduced particularly after a period of seven years in which Fianna Fáil and the administration of this country went mad; it is a Budget introduced in an effort to recoup the losses of recent years and give the people some social justice.

Some references have been made by Deputies opposite to the savings upon which this Budget is based. The short-wave station and the transatlantic air line have been mentioned. I interpret this Budget as meaning that the Minister for Finance, by cutting out what he considered, under present circumstances, to be wasteful expenditure—such as was envisaged on the transatlantic air service and the short-wave station—was able to give some justice to old age and other pensioners. That is what his economy in that direction has meant for the people. I only hope that those measures are merely a beginning and that from this Budget we can advance to better things. We can at least ensure that money collected in taxes will be put to a purpose from which the people will derive a real benefit.

I regret very much that the provisions of the Budget do not include the restoration of the corporation excess profits tax. I trust that the generosity extended by the Minister to people engaged in industry, who made what most people in this country consider an illegal profit, will bring a return to him. I remember reading in the Dáil debates that when that tax was first removed it was expected by the then Minister that the result would be a fall in prices; that the incentive of greater profit to be retained by the manufacturers and industrialists would mean that they would turn that profit into equipping in a better way their industries, bettering the conditions of their employees and producing a better article at a lower price. That was two years ago. That expectation has not been fulfilled. Excessive profits are still being made. The conditions offered to employees are still far short of what we all would desire and prices have continued to rise.

I realise that this tax was a difficult one, particularly in a country which requires greater production immediately. It may be that the Minister for Finance, having considered the problem, has come to the conclusion that the incentive of large profits must still remain. I was glad to hear him say that while he has appealed to industrialists and manufacturers voluntarily to assist in the task of reducing prices, he has accompanied that appeal by a threat of what will happen if that co-operation is not forthcoming. The warning he uttered indicated to them that, should it be necessary to restore this tax, he will take not merely a part but the entire of such profits.

Deputy O'Reilly mentioned turf and, apparently, he shed some silent tears because of this Government's policy towards turf. If any Deputy deals with a matter like that, he should be honest with himself and with the country. The reason there are fewer employed in the production of turf to-day is due to this fact, that the market for turf is not there because there is a commodity which the ordinary people will buy in preference to turf and that commodity is coal. Coal is on the market; it was put there by Deputy Lemass last October and, if there is to be any criticism about the change in the turf policy, let that criticism be placed before Deputy Lemass. He removed coal off the ration in early October but he was not prepared to be honest or sincere with the people engaged in turf production by warning them of the consequences of that step.

I represent a constituency which, perhaps more than any other, has contributed to the production of turf during the emergency. In my constituency a certain amount of turf has always been produced and always will be produced for local markets, for domestic purposes. During the past four or five years, encouraged by the last Administration, and in particular by Deputy Lemass, hundreds of young men went into turf production. Many ex-Army men during the past two years put their savings into the purchase of lorries. Those men are seriously affected now. I know the hardship they suffer will be eased considerably by the policy of the new Administration, but it must be remembered that that hardship from which they are suffering is due entirely to the callous attitude of the former Administration and, in particular, Deputy Lemass, to the national production of turf. I think that matters like that ought to be mentioned. Deputy O'Reilly raised the matter here. There are other matters arising out of the Budget to which I would like to refer. I do not propose to go into them in any great detail.

Perhaps I am being a little severe on Deputy O'Reilly, but Deputy O'Reilly, in talking about the increased tax on petrol, referred to the Ferguson tractor and talked about the hardship that this tax would place upon the farmers who purchased Ferguson tractors. He admitted quite frankly that he had not got a tractor himself and, apparently, he does know sufficient about it. If he had taken the trouble to inquire into the matter before he discussed it he would have found that arrangements are now being made to adapt the Ferguson tractor for the consumption of kerosene. Fords have actually on the market at the present time a tractor so adapted.

In my opinion this is a sound Budget. It is a Budget which is the outcome not only of the ability of the present Minister for Finance but also of the policy of the Parties supporting this Government. It is a Budget drawn up and designed to meet the serious economic situation with which this country is faced—a country suffering from under-production and over-taxation. It is a country in which there are too many people too lowly paid and too many people existing on the borderline of starvation. It is a Budget which is a step, but only a step, in the right direction. I hope that from this Budget we will advance to better things. The policy initiated under it of cutting out wasteful expenditure and endeavouring to raise the standard of living of the people generally must be and will be brought to a successful conclusion. I sincerely hope that the Opposition Deputies will be honest, if not with themselves at least with their constituents. I think it was last November 12 months they voted against a motion tabled in this House asking for increases for those people who, by reason of infirmity or old age, are unable to earn. Now that they no longer have the responsibility of Government and that they have a Government prepared to lead them along the right path I hope that they will come in and wholeheartedly support this Budget. If they do not do that I can guarantee that very few of them will dare to face their constituents in the coming months.

We will see about that.

Very few of them will. The people of this country cannot forget that there are Deputies opposite now who not so very long ago voted for increases in their own allowances and who voted against a small and trifling increase to old age pensioners.

What about the Cumann na nGaedheal Government? They cut the pensions pre-1932 by a 1/-.

What about Brian Boru?

We restored them in 1932 by a 1/- and we subsequently gave an additional 2/6.

According to Deputy Kissane's argument 10/- then is worth £1 now.

I am very grateful to Deputy Breathnach for raising that particular matter

What was done in 1932 or pre-1932 is not relevant to the debate now.

I am very glad that Deputy Breathnach has at last been goaded into making some contribution to this debate.

You are not so long here.

He has said more since he came into the House than you have said in the last 15 years.

I would like to remind him that there was a cut of 1/- in the old age pensions prior to 1932.

That is not relevant on this debate.

I am glad that whatever wrong was done in the past is now being rectified.

I am glad that even this small measure has been taken to restore the balance in favour of those entitled to some benefit from national expenditure. I trust that those Deputies here who are so concerned about increases affecting themselves will remember their duty to their constituents and to those people who are less well off. If they vote against this increase in the old age pensions they will, as I have said, find it very hard to meet their constituents. Let them have no doubt upon that. Their conduct in this vote will be watched with interest by the people. If the conduct of the Deputies opposite can be judged it would seem to indicate that because the Deputies are now on the Opposition side of the House they think they can afford to be irresponsible. Let them remember that this Dáil is now a deliberative Assembly and that every member of this Dáil has a certain obligation which he must fulfil. Refraining from voting for purely petty political motives will no longer deceive the people. There is an issue involved up to which the Opposition Deputies must face. Each one of them is asked individually as to whether he agrees with this increase under this Budget. A decision will have to be made and they cannot excuse themselves by saying that they were told to vote in a particular way. When the time comes to vote I hope they will remember that and I hope that at least some of them will remember their duties to their constituents.

Bhí an tír go leir ag fanacht go cruaidh leis an Cháinfhaisnéis seo, an chéad cheann on Rialtas úr, ach, leis an fhírinne a rá, níl comhgháirdeachas ar bith tuillte ag an Aire Airgeadais mar gheall ar a chuid oibre anseo sa Dáil inné.

Níl an Rialtas úr againn ach le cupla mí, ach, más gairid an t-ám, ta a lán daoine curtha as obair acu, go mór mhór i nGaeltacht Thír Chonaill mar gheall ar ár bpríomh-thionscal— baint na móna—a stopadh. Cuireadh na mílte buachaillí as obair ins na ceantair Gaelacha. Bhí muid uilig ag feitheamh leis an Aire chun rud éicint a rá faoi scéim nó polasaí nua le cuidiú, nó le uchtach a thabhairt do na ceantair íargcúlta, scéim a choinneodh na buachaillí agus na cailíní sa mbaile i n-áit a bheith ag dul anonn go hAlbain agus go Sasain. Ach fairíor, níor dhúirt sé focal amháin faoin nGaeltacht agus níor cuireadh airgead ar bith ar leath-taoibh cun obair a thabhairt dóibh agus ní mór do na buachaillí óga agus do na cailíní dul go hAlbain mar atá siad ag dhul ann le cupla céad bliain anuas.

I rith an Toghcháin, cúpla mí ó shoin, bhí muid ag éisteacht le Clann na Poblachta agus le Fine Gael agus iad á iarraidh ar na daoine iad a chur isteach mar Rialtas mar go raibh polasaí acu a bhéarfadh saol úr do mhuintir na Gaeltachta, polasaí a chuirfeadh foraoiseacht ar bun i dtreo is go mbeadh crainn ag fás ar gach ard, polasaí a chuirfeadh scéimeanna dréinéala ar bun ionas nach mbeadh sé d'fhiachaibh ar na daoine imeacht as an tír chun obair d'fháil. Anois ba mhaith liom fháil amach céard tá siad ag dhul a dhéanamh do na daoine sa nGaeltacht, tuige nach bhfuil siad ag labhairt faoi anois agus tuige nach bhfuil aon rud le rá acu faoi na mílte atá anois gan obair sa mbaile. Tá siad chun cúpla scilling a thabhairt do na sean-phinsinéirí, ach níl siad ag tabhairt uchtach ar bith do na mílte daoine a chuir siad as obair le cupla mí anuas. Ar chaoi ar bith, ní fiú mórán an cúpla scilling atá siad a thabhairt do na seanphinsinéiró. Ní dóigh liom gur ionraic an Cháinfhaisneis é seo don nGaeltacht mar ní thugann sé uchtach nó cuidiú ar bith do na daoine ansin agus níl an Rialtas ag comhlíonadh na ngeallúint a thugadar do na daoine. Siad an Ríaltas anois iad agus nil leithscéal ar bith acu le dul siar ar a ngeallúintí agus gan rud ar bith a thabhairt do na céadta daoine a cuireadh as obair de dheasca polasaí an Rialtais nua.

Of the many things which were introduced in last year's Budget, the thing to which I attached paramount importance was the abolition of the excess profits tax. A promise was made by the responsible Minister that as a result of the abolition of this tax the cost of living would come down, and that the money saved could be flung back into industry, which would give a more appreciable article to the public at a smaller price. It was proved subsequently that those promises were not to be realised, inasmuch as the cost of living did not come down and the money saved by the abolition of the tax was not put into industry in order to give it a fillip or to enable the production of cheaper articles. I am not going to go into ecstasies over particular items which were included in this Budget, but I have a feeling—an independent feeling —that those taxes should have been put on again. However, as a new member here, who has not had time properly to investigate the matter, I can only say that perhaps something will be visualised later with a sincerity not very apparent on the benches opposite in 1947. This year we may realise the advantages which we were told we would get in 1947. I would strongly recommend if in the future the people who accumulated wealth—and I have no hesitation in saying ill-gotten wealth—continue to accumulate it in the same proportion as they have been doing for a number of years past, then that the tax should go on to the extent of 100 per cent., and also that some other measures should be taken to bring those people down to terra firma, and show them that the Government is inclined to give the plain people the right to live, and to live under conditions which would be appreciated by everybody.

I was astonished to-day—or at least last night—at the attitude of Deputy Lemass. He turned all his wrath on members of the Labour Party for applauding a Budget which gave 5/- to the old age pensioners and which gave a very substantial increase to the widows and orphans. Just because what was stated off election platforms in December, January and early February, was not fulfilled, Deputy Lemass seemed to think that this side of the House, and particularly the Labour Party, were directly responsible for the whole thing. I would like to call the attention of Deputy Lemass and of the Party opposite to a plan that was posted up on every hoarding and in every public place in 1931. The heading of it went something like: "We have a plan." That plan outlined the reductions that could be made, and made easily, and how the country could be run for a sum less than it was being run prior to that time. That plan was not an improvised plan. It was a deliberate plan decided on after long consideration by the shadow Cabinet of the Fianna Fáil Party at that time, when they were in opposition. Did that plan materialise? I wonder.

It is 17 years ago anyhow.

Has it materialised in 1948 or in 1947, the last year that Fianna Fáil were in office?

They increased the social services by £15,000,000.

They did when they were helped by the Labour Party and were made to do it, when we held the balance of power. If the Deputy examines the improvements in social services he will find that that was the only time it was done.

I do not think that is correct.

I have no doubt in the world that it is correct.

It is a dream the man had.

Dreams often come true and I am sure the people on the opposite side are dreaming at the moment, but the dream is more or less a nightmare.

It is a nightmare opposite.

Let me continue. Deputy Hilliard will get time to talk. We made promises before the last general election. We promised to remit the tax on the workingman's drink, the pint of beer, on the workingman's smoke and on the workingman's entertainment. We were not very long in power—we were not 16 years, at any rate—when we did that. We promised to increase old age pensions. We promised to increase widows' and orphans' pensions. Not alone have we increased them but we have duplicated the increase. For the purposes of the means test we increased the limit of income from £39 to something that at the moment I do not know but which I am sure will be very appreciable. The people on the opposite side of the House could not see their way to increase old age pensions. For years they pleaded that the finances of the country could not stand it, that the nation would be beggared if there was any small increase in old age pensions and widows' and orphans' pensions. This inter-Party Government were not very long in office when they introduced increases in old age pensions and widows' and orphans' pensions, and I am sure that future generations will appreciate the actions of the Government in granting these increases to those who need them most.

We have heard a great deal about the increased cost of petrol. We have heard Deputy M. O'Reilly speaking about the produce of County Meath being brought by lorry to feed the people of Dublin. I am not certain that my figures are accurate but I would say that the farthest point of Meath from Dublin is approximately 60 miles. Assuming a rate of ten miles to the gallon it would mean that 12 gallons of petrol would be used in bringing two to five tons of produce to Dublin. The increased cost resulting from the increased taxation on petrol would be 5/- a load. I wonder how the people of Meath will distribute the increased cost to the poor of Dublin whom Deputy O'Reilly stated they were feeding. It seems to me that it will take some calculating machine or proximator that I do not know anything about to discover exactly what the increased cost should be.

Several Deputies on the other side are very puzzled as to why we did not do a lot of things. They maintain that what we have done is being done at the expense of the poor. There is one thing we have not done and that I hope we have no notion of doing and that is becoming airminded or monopolyminded. Certain monopolies and industries have been safeguarded in every way and the taxpayers of this country for years past have been paying through the gills to keep them going and to give them more than a fair profit. One concern which was subsidised produced a balance sheet last year showing a depreciation or loss of £1,500,000. One and a half million pounds in a concern that had a national monopoly—Córas Iompair Eireann. People begin to wonder how is that. I have no hesitation in stating in this House the reason: the people who were running Córas Iompair Eireann were the cause of it, the people who were in positions that they should not have.

These men are not in this House to defend themselves. I do not think it is very nice.

There were several charges made in this House against people who were not here to defend themselves

The House had to provide the cash for them.

If the Leas-Cheann Comhairle says that I have said anything wrong, I will accept his ruling.

I am trying to indicate to the Deputy that I do not see how the management of Córas Iompair Eireann has anything to do with this Budget. This Budget has to do with taxation.

The House is responsible for anything up to £500,000 working loss by Córas Iompair Eireann.

I bow to the Chair's ruling but, for the benefit of the people on the opposite side of the House, I should like to say that charges were made several times in this House against people who were not present.

No personal charges have been made against anybody. The Chair has been particularly careful about that.

I hope that for the future those industries will be left hanging by their own tail and that the taxpayers of this country will not be responsible for their upkeep and maintenance. In conclusion, I say that we in the Labour Party have gone a long way in keeping the promises that we made. I have enumerated things we have done in the short three months that this Government have been in office. I hope that when we meet next year we will have gone further in improving the position of the people who most require our help. I assure those on the opposite side of the House that none of us has any intention of letting 16 years pass before we fulfil our promises. We have reduced taxation. We have given the widows and orphans and the old age pensioners a part, and a good part, of what we promised them, and I trust that when next year's Budget is being introduced we will be able to go the whole hog and fulfil our promises 100 per cent.

We have heard various opinions all over the House on this Budget and I would like to assure Deputy O'Higgins that, whatever I do about the Budget, I will speak to my constituents wherever and whenever I like and I can assure him that the combined forces of all in this House would not prevent me from doing so. We have heard Deputy O'Higgins say something about raising the standard of living for the lowly paid. I am rather deeply concerned about that, as I consider myself one of the lowest paid men in Europe and as representing that particular class in the rural community who are the worst paid of any people in this country to-day.

We have heard a lot of talk about more production. I have examined this Budget to see in what way it will help the farmer towards increased production. If the farmer does not produce, that is the end for the rest of the people. I am anxious to see that the condition of the paid farm labourer and of the unpaid farm labourer, namely, the farmer's son, is improved. What do we find? The first move made here is where the Minister states that he counts on £500,000 this year by taking the State contribution for national health insurance, unemployment insurance and contributory widows' and orphans' pensions and shoving it over on the badly paid farm labourer and on his employer, the farmer. As an excuse for that, and for fear anybody would think that conditions for the ordinary labourer were going to improve, there is the opinion of the Minister for Finance:

"In view of the substantial increases in wages over the past 18 months and the benefits afforded by the increase in food subsidies last October, now no longer offset by higher beer, tobacco and entertainments duties, some addition to the weekly contribution of employees is not unreasonable."

Between the employees and the employer, the deficiency of £500,000 in this Budget is to be made up. As we farmers all know, we generally pay the whole of the national health contribution for our employees. I have not seen it stopped in my part of the country, anyway.

I wonder.

I will bring Deputy Keane down and he can have a look around. The extra mulct is going to fall on the employer. At the moment, I cannot divide this £500,000 out to see how much will be borne by the agricultural community and how much by the industrial community, but the fact remains that £500,000 is the answer.

Next we find £910,000 to be got from petrol and oil. How much of that will be borne by the agricultural community? I have no means of differentiating between petrol used for motor cars and petrol used for ordinary commercial business, but I know that we beet growers found ourselves last year faced with a 20 per cent. increase in the cost of transport of our beet. We also know there is at present a demand by Córas Iompair Éireann for another 12½ per cent. increase on top of that. Now you have a further 5d. per gallon on petrol to go on to that. We are a class of the community who have no possible means of passing it on. We are the underdog. This is going to tend to more production! I have been for a number of years, since the beet factories were established, negotiating each year with the sugar company and I can assure the House that they are very tight boys to deal with. I remember an occasion when the general manager of the sugar company offered to split 3d. in a ton of beet. We are going to be kept there at the back end of the stick—and we are going to produce more! If we do not produce more, that finishes the job.

The next assistance we are to get it this. We gave this year anything from £32 to £35 a ton for seed oats. The Minister has now removed the subsidy on oatmeal and we can go to the market next year with our oats, after paying £35 a ton for it, and see how we get on—especially in view of the assurance from the Minister for Agriculture that he will bring in cheap Indian meal to help us out in getting a price.

The next assistance we get towards further production is the removal of the subsidy on home-made butter. That is wiped out, in order to induce increased production on the land. It is a grand way to go about the job. We had Deputy Cogan to-day asking the Minister about the cost of production of pigs and the Minister apparently knew all about it. He said there would be plenty of pigs and he would advise Deputy Cogan not to say a word, for fear there would be an inquiry and that Deputy Keane's excess profits tax would be coming down on the fellow with the pig.

Another little assistance towards extra production, in addition to the 4/- in the £ in the rates this year, is that we are to relieve the unfortunate Budget to the extent, according to the Minister for Social Welfare, of £75,000 odd this year and £150,000 odd next year, by shifting the cost of the food vouchers that the Fianna Fáil terribly capitalist Government gave to the poor out of State funds—by shifting that over on to the ratepayer's back. The sum of £150,000 does not matter in a big job like this where you are throwing millions around. All this is to increase production. I read in the paper last week a statement fixing the price of liquid milk in the towns and cities of this country. I can honestly admit that I expected nothing better from this Government—and those who expected nothing will not be disappointed. However, when you know that a Minister has in his possession costs of production that cannot be questioned and when you see that Minister come along and do the idiotic thing the Minister for Agriculture has done in regard to the supply of liquid milk to Cork City and Dublin one questions whether we can carry on or not. The main scheme on which this country can exist and carry on is that of increased production. There must be increased production and this is a means by which it can be done.

Deputy O'Higgins referred a short time ago to a Ferguson tractor which is going to be converted so as to be able to use some other fuel besides petrol. I do not know where the Deputy got his information. Henry Ford is producing new tractors which are capable of being worked on kerosene, which is also taxed under this Budget—no doubt in order to help the farmers to produce more. There is an increase of 2d., I think, on the kerosene side of it—we will be able to plough the land cheaper as a result of that. I know several of my neighbours who were induced, an account of this appeal for increased production, to buy Ferguson tractors. These tractors use, roughly, ten gallons of petrol per day and that represents 4/2 a day extra for their costs. These people are asked to produce more yet their costs of production are increased and they are faced with a stone wall in any appeal they make for an increase in prices.

In the case of liquid milk, the actual position is this. On the cost of production, as vouched for by no less an authority than the University of Cork, the price of liquid milk fixed by the Minister leaves the farmer with a loss of 4d. per gallon for the months of October, November and December; a loss of 2d. per gallon for the months of January, February and March, and a loss of 5d. per gallon for the month of April. If anybody in this House who talks about increased production expects any farmer, knowing those definite costings, to be idiotic enough to produce milk under those conditions he will soon find out that he is expecting too much.

Added to all that is our share of the £500,000 that was previously paid by the State, as far as national health insurance is concerned, and we are going to have extra costs on petrol and kerosene. We should remember that 95 per cent. of the manures and everything else that reaches the farmer at the present day, and 95 per cent. of what leaves the farmer, is drawn by petrol. Those people can pass the burden on but we here representing the agricultural community, have no one to pass it on to. Our backs are to the wall. If anybody thinks that we are going to get increased production under these conditions he must, in the words of the Minister for Agriculture when he was a small boy here, be "daft". I ask what is all this for? It is in order that the new team may get gin and wine in the Fianna Fáil luxury hotels. I hope that they will enjoy it and I hope that, should they be short of a gallon of milk around Christmas they will, when they go to the door of the farmer with a jug, be able to say: "Well, we will have cheaper wine——"

And more bacon.

And more bacon, I understand, as a result of a question put by Deputy Cogan to-day and answered by the "daft" Minister. We are faced with that state of affairs and, as a result, I am wondering where the increased production is going to come from. In order to obtain increased production there must be an incentive. What we want to know is where the incentive is going to be found—and that after all is the kernel of the situation.

What do you suggest?

It is your own foundation stone.

The Deputy will proceed without minding the chorus.

Last night I had not the advantage of hearing the tale-end of the Minister's speech, in which he told us that wages had now gone high enough and that it had now become a question of drawing back. As far as certain sections of the community are concerned, the wages have gone high enough. However, my men and my sons are working for a wage of less than 60/- a week but, as a result of the prices allowed by the present Government, I am not able to pay them even that wage.

That is only the minimum price.

You are worse than he is. God help the representative of the farmers who does not understand what he is talking about.

The labourers understood the statement about £2 5s. 0d. per week.

The labourers and the farmers will be asking the Parliamentary Secretary and the rest of his Party how long they are going to stand for the farmer getting less than the cost of production. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will be able to answer.

What about the 62/6 a barrel for wheat?

What about the Deputy being allowed to speak without interruption?

I am glad the Parliamentary Secretary reminded me of that. The 62/6 per barrel for wheat was fixed last November. Since then the farmer has had an increase of 5/a week in his agricultural labourers' wages; an increase of 4/- in the £ on his rates and, in addition to that, the little loads that have been thrown on to him by the Minister for Social Welfare, which will mean a couple of pence in the £ more. Of course that does not matter. My complaint is that the price still stands at 62/6. We have nobody to pass these burdens on to. It is not to-day or yesterday that I have placed the position before the House. I told those boys over there that I would give them the same crack of the whip that I gave my own, and I am doing it.

But you would not vote against them.

You are too thick to vote against anything. If you were cut in two halves there would be nothing but sawdust found. We have to consider here the statement by the Minister which practically means a standstill Order. If I have a man who is too lazy to work and he walks away from me he can go to Cork City and join a trade union and get one-and-a-half times as much wages as he got from me. On Saturday after 2 o'clock he can come and sit on my ditch and look at my idiots producing and have a laugh at them. He can say: "You poor devils can stop there. I have got a nicer job and I will get cheap milk at your expense." I claim to speak for the producers of wealth in this country, for the ordinary worker and the ordinary working farmer, and I do not want to see agricultural workers' wages prevented from increasing until they have from £4 to £4 7s. 0d. per week. The agricultural worker earns his wages harder than some of the people over there. He earns his wages far harder than Deputy Cowan, who complained to-day that he had nothing to do, that he was earning his money too softly. If there are Deputies who do no work for their money, I suggest that they should shove it in. I am working night and day and I cannot get any peace or ease. Whilst you have a condition of affairs that the people who produce the wealth in this country, namely, the farmer, the farmer's son and the agricultural labourer are in the position that their earnings are only 40 per cent. of the wages of a labourer in any other capacity in this country, so long will you have no production in this country. So long as you have a Minister kept there by the votes of those who claim to be direct representatives of agriculture in this House, so long as they condone what that Minister does in fixing a price for agricultural produce which does not pay the cost of production, then you will have no production.

I want to hear from the Clann na Talmhan Deputies, who claim to be representatives of the agricultural community, their attitude in regard to what the farmer has to produce, the price he should be paid for it, and whether they are going to get for him at least the cost of production, plus a profit. That conglomeration over there hold what I used to be happy to call long ago the balance of power. I want to know what those people who claim to be the direct representatives of the agricultural community are going to do with that balance of power in order to see that the farmer gets his rightful place in this country and the agricultural labourer a decent wage. They are the people who are responsible.

There are other aspects of this Budget which I shall have other opportunities of dealing with. I certainly think it is a wrong thing to throw any further burdens on those who are the producers of food. The burdens which are being thrown on them are unfair and unjust. They have not any loophole through which they can pass these burdens on. Some four months ago the price of beet for the coming year was fixed and contracts were entered into between the sugar company and something like 70,000 farmers. After the contracts were entered into last year we had a 20 per cent. increase in our transport costs which turned a very slight profit into a dead loss. This year, after these contracts were signed, we are faced with another 12½ per cent. increase and on top of that we have now an increase of 5d. a gallon on petrol to give transport monopolies good ground for demanding a further increase from us. I want to know from those people over there whether they consider that justice or not. Unfortunately for those who are advocating the six-day week, a 50-hour week and all the rest, the old cow does not follow that programme at all. The old cow walks in on a Sunday morning as well as on a Saturday morning, and someone must be there to milk her. I wonder if we could induce the Minister for Agriculture, who is so smart about other things, to produce a six-day cow. If he could do that he would get another medal. Since he cannot do that, does he consider it just, seeing that the farmer and the farm labourer have to milk the cows on Sunday as well as on Monday and deliver it on Sunday as well as on Monday, to fix the price of milk at 4d. a gallon under the cost of production?

I am not looking for anything extraordinary, but when I saw the Minister for Agriculture coming out with a new hat with the "new look" I said: "Blessed are those who expect nothing". I did expect, however, that he would have had common sense enough—year after year he used to comment here on the enormous profits that industrialists were getting and used to weep salt tears when he sat over here about the position of the down-trodden farmer—when he went into his office and saw there the costs of production ascertained from actual working by University College, Cork, and particularly when he had no costings to put against them, that at least he would have said: "Well, I will give those farmers at least the costs of production plus some profit." The farmer might have expected that. He has to be out at 5 o'clock in the morning in the months of October, November, December, January and February producing milk so that the "gent" who is drawing three times his salary and four times his wages might remain in bed and when it suited him call out: "Mary, bring me up a hot cup of tea as soon as the milk-man comes." With that aspect of affairs before us what hope can we have in this country of increased production? Here you are denying justice and fair play to the farmer. Do you think that there is any farmer lunatic enough to produce milk during the winter months at 4d. per gallon less than the cost of production? The farmers will not do it.

The Deputy seems to be confining himself to agriculture.

If the farmer went out of production in the morning that would finish every Party and member of this House. Therefore, I think I am right in confining myself to agriculture and how this Budget is going to affect it.

The Deputy's references to the Budget are very incidental and rare. He refers to production and then goes on to make a speech on agriculture. This Budget deals with taxation, expenditure and general policy.

We are spending a very large amount of money every year on instructresses and in organising special classes for the training of girls in butter making. Now we come along and remove the subsidy on farmer's butter and leave it on creamery butter. Is it not a lunatic thing to train a group of girls to manufacture butter when you completely kill that production by removing the subsidy from it and leave it on the creamery butter? I have devoted my whole time to-night to agriculture.

I quite agree.

And to the manner in which this Budget will affect the agricultural community, the members of which are the only producers of wealth in this country.

I have heard the Deputy repeat that six or seven times.

Having done that, my job is finished, and now the industrialists can talk.

This year's Budget will produce the usual amount of criticism. There will be the viewpoint of those who are responsible for it, while criticism will be offered by the Opposition Party. In reality, the Budget is nothing revolutionary. The Government are to be complimented as far as some points in it are concerned, but in reality they have produced nothing that is very extraordinary. What I see arising mainly from this Budget is that I think the Government to a degree exaggerated their power to control finance to the extent of making known to the public very big changes in regard to expenditure which they said it was in their power to reduce.

Meeting with the realities of the situation, they find that a reduction in the expenditure of the State is not so easily arranged. Accordingly we are confronted with a Budget running into a very substantial sum of money. It is true that the Government have readjusted expenditure and directed it towards the relief of certain sections of the community. I think the moral of all this is that members of the Government Party, the Opposition Party and all other Parties who have accustomed themselves to going before the electorate whenever the occasion demands and saying to the people: "I am going to reduce the cost of living and also increase social services, improve the condition of the workers and the poorer sections of the community," should realise that these powers are not vouchsafed to any Party. We cannot control finance magically. We cannot produce from the hat, as a conjurer would, the various essential things that he may require in the course of the exercise of his profession.

Revenue is the product of hard work and comes from the workers, and from that source alone. If we confine ourselves in a rigid way to recognising that fact, if we are honest with the public, educate the people and tell them the actual position—that Governments do not control money ad lib, that they cannot provide increased social services simply by lifting the hat —if we tell the public that the resources from which improved social services and greater prosperity for our people can be provided are hard work and increased production, then we shall create a healthier public opinion. Let us tell the people honestly that we have a certain revenue to draw from, that while out of that revenue we may be able to relieve pressure in one direction, we shall have to transfer it to another and that only by increased production can there be a general levelling up in the standard of living. Let us prepare a graph and by propaganda endeavour to educate the people in a proper manner and not treat them as so many nincompoops.

If some of the propaganda carried on at election periods were utilised at other times to establish a sound public opinion on these matters, the people would be saved a good deal of disillusionment. Let us inform them of the facts consistently and all the time. Let us teach our people through the schools and in every other possible way that the extent of our resources comprises the limit to which prosperity and social services can be maintained. If we do that, I think we shall proceed towards a more realistic, a more honest and a more practical line of advancement than we can possibly attain by present methods.

I do not blame the Government. The members of the various Parties who have combined to form the Government, made promises during the last election that were no more inconsistent than those made by other Parties. I do not blame them, as I say, but we have had a wrong outlook on these matters. We have taken a wrong step and I am afraid some of the speeches on the Budget to which we have listened are indicative of very little change in that respect in future. The things that are good in this Budget are minimised by Opposition Deputies and the things that imply a wrong outlook are represented as if they were for the general good. I think this game of Party politics is going to be the ruin of democracy. I think an approach to the people by telling them plainly what is possible from a commonsense point of view is the safest way to guarantee the continued existence of democracy.

I will say this much in favour of the Budget. As I have already stated, it indicates no radical change whatever. The Government are dealing with practically the same amount of money as that with which the previous Government had to deal. They are expending the same amount and collecting the same amount from the taxpayer but they are adjusting their expenditure very much in favour of a section of the community which I think all Parties will agree are deserving of every consideration—the old age pensioners and the widows and orphans. To the extent that they have made economies here and there, or even to the extent to which they found it necessary to increase taxation to provide increased allowances in that respect—I hope it was not due to political motives or for the sake of gaining some political advantage and I do not suggest it was —they are Christian and humanitarian in their outlook.

However, the increase in the standard of income below which pensions may be granted is so long overdue that one even does not think of thanking the present Government for doing what they have done. Any person in receipt of an income exceeding £39 was deemed to be ineligible for an old age pension. That standard was fixed away back as far as 1909. To-day a comparable income would be well over £100. There was never a greater injustice perpetrated in the name of Christian democracy than to apply a limit fixed in 1908 or 1909 to presentday circumstances or, for that matter, to the circumstances of any time within the last 25 or 30 years. The ordinary workers got their increases during that time. They had the means by which they could command and demand such increases. Governments which claimed to be Christian and democratic allowed that unreasonable and unjustifiable condition to prevail. Because old people were not in a position to demand a review of the old-time standards they were refused pensions. I think if there is a case to be made against any Party or any Government, it would be in relation to the retention of these ancient standards to the detriment of old age pensioners. The same applies to widows' and orphans' pensions but, of course, they were introduced at a much later period. They were brought in by the previous Government. All credit to them for that; but, again, nobody will say one harsh word against any Government that will introduce better conditions so as to bring the amounts payable in these very deserving cases up to modern requirements.

One suggestion which I would make to the responsible Minister is that there is one section in the community for whom no Party has made provision. I refer to invalids, those who have been invalided either from birth or who have been invalided through accident and who are left derelict. No provision is made for them unless they apply for home help and even that, as we know, is often given very grudgingly and only as the last resort is it applied for. I would recommend the Minister responsible, who seems to be very energetic in dealing with health conditions—he deserves the admiration of every person in the State for his attempt to deal in a serious way with the ravages of disease—that he would consider making some provision for that section of our community analogous to the provision made for old age pensioners and widows and orphans. The leaving out of one section is sufficient justification for accusing those responsible of failure to discharge their duty as they should in respect of social services where such services are required.

With regard to the general scheme of the Budget, while there is undoubtedly an increase in the price of petrol, I, as a user of petrol, do not propose to complain about it. It is unfortunate that we have to increase the cost of living on any section of the community, but I am sure that those who will pay this additional price—and I suppose the entire community will, directly or indirectly, contribute—will feel that it is for a justifiable purpose and will not seriously object. Many of us will merely have to use less petrol.

I feel strongly about the neglect of other matters for which no provision is made in the Budget and I refer particularly to the Government arrangements in respect of those who were employed on turf production last year. It is true that the Government have provided grants for the re-employment of the same people, but the scheme is deficient in that no provision is made for those men who normally would have applied this year and would have been employed on turf production, either on Bord na Móna or county council schemes. Neither is any provision made for the employment of those who were engaged in private turf production. To that extent, the scheme is very deficient.

The policy of the previous Government—and obviously the tendency of this Government is on similar lines— was mass employment of men, the gathering of these men into big units and the gathering of small business into big sections. It was felt then that you were doing well. That is as wrong as can be. Why make provision for those disemployed this year, because turf production is not economic, and leave out of consideration the small producer, the small farmer who, with the assistance of his children, before they went to school or having come from school, or during holidays, was able to produce turf in quantities equal to those produced by the best able-bodied man employed on Bord na Móna or county council schemes?

Look at the value of their production. Look at the additional money their efforts brought into the homes in the poorest part of the country. These people cannot be employed under any of these schemes, but their labours brought money and goods into these poor homes. Do not think you have met the situation merely because you have provided a pound for pound expenditure on alternative schemes, on better and more important schemes. Do not assume that you have discharged your duty when you have left out the most deserving section, the people who were healthily employed and who improved conditions in their homes by private turf production. What provision is made in this Budget for that section? None. These, like the old age pensioners who have been penalised for years, are the silent section. They cannot raise any great storm, and so they are neglected.

The same applies to coal production. About 800 people were employed in coal production in the Arigna area for the past 10 years. To-day much less than half that number are employed, and, from the way things look now, probably half that number again will be disemployed in the next few months. These men, the turf producers and the coal mine workers, kept the wheels of industry going here for the past eight years. It was not the most perfect job, I suppose, or the most perfect product, but it kept industry going. Will some member of either Government—this Government or the Government which has gone out of office and which is partly responsible—tell me why is not a portion of the coal which kept our industries and our railways going here for the past seven or eight years, although not as well as was the case when the best English, Welsh and Scottish coals were imported here in pre-war days, still used in our transport and industries generally?

We have industries which have been subsidised by the public and subsidised, in their initial stages, at a very high cost. We found it good business to subsidise these industries and to give employment. Our coal owners and workers never asked for a subsidy and they do not ask for a subsidy now. They can produce the analysis given them by the City of Dublin analyst of the coal they produce, and can show the Minister responsible that the quality of the coal they produce is equal to that of imported coal, if it is not better, and they will also tell him that they can produce and sell it cheaper than the imported coal. Other industries have been subsidised at the expense of these poor mine workers who have had to pay higher prices for the things they bought. Why, in the name of justice, will these men not be allowed to provide a quota for essential industries which are protected here, whether transport or otherwise, if they can show that they can sell a better article at a cheaper price?

It is surely not beyond the bounds of the Government's powers to provide that a certain quantity of Irish coal, equal in quality and in price to imported coal, if it is not better, shall be used by industries here which are subsidised by the State and contributed to by the very workers whose existence depends on the continuation of work in the Arigna area.

I listened to Deputy O'Higgins. I admired the speech he made. He referrd to coal imports and he said that the falling off in our production of coal and turf here was due to Deputy Lemass. That may be true. I am not exonerating Deputy Lemass at all. I know the imports of coal that came into this country before the present Government took office. That import adversely affected the production of coal in Leitrim, Roscommon and Sligo. Deputy O'Higgins said that the onus for that rested on Deputy Lemass. A new Government is in office now. Does that Government intend to allow the present situation to continue?

Successive Governments have taken office in this country and each successive Government has treated the old age pensioners and the less better off members of the community in the same ungenerous fashion. The people living in the congested areas have been completely forgotten. Not a single thing has been done for them by successive national Governments to remedy the outrageous conditions under which they live. No national Government should permit the present disgrace to continue. These people are compelled to live in the barren wastes of Connaught, Kerry and Donegal. They were given the choice of hell or Connaught. Connaught being their choice, they are still living there under the most appalling conditions of poverty and hardship. They are the victims of invasion. No Government has made any effort to remedy their position. At this juncture I lay no blame upon the present Government. It is a new Government and I sincerely hope that it will do something for these forgotten victims of the past. But I see no provision in the Budget for them.

Is it the Minister's intention to resume migration from the west? When does he hope to put his plans into operation? Will he undertake to examine into the economic conditions of life in these areas and see how far migration can wipe out this national outrage? Will he do something in order to make conditions there in some degree humane? Doles and grants have been given in the past. The people in these districts are a proud people. They are the descendants of those who persistently and consistently refused to bow tho knee to the invader and who refused to accept the authority of a conqueror. The people there to-day are as proud as their ancestors were. They do not want doles. They only ask for the means of earning a decent livelihood. If something is not done now they will solve their problem in their own proud way by turning their backs upon their homeland and no national Government will ever again be afforded the opportunity of helping them to take their place as citizens in their own country. Were it not for the restrictions arbitrarily imposed by the Government in the last eight years the numbers with which we have to deal to-day would be very few indeed. If we lose these people we shall have lost an asset which this nation can never replace. We must do something for them if only for the sake of our own national honour. If this Government tackles the problem seriously the country will benefit. The problem is not a new one. It was in existence many years ago. Mr. Balfour, the then Prime Minister of a British Government, established a board to examine into the conditions in these areas and that board was given £40,000 per annum to spend—a considerable sum in those days. An Irish Government annexed that sum.

While I await with a certain anxiety the Government's plan for dealing with these essential and fundamental needs, I approve of the Budget. The Government has shown some indication that it is prepared to do something tangible in relation to social services and to give some redress to those less fortunate members of our community. Might I ask the Government to remember, too, some of our other pensioners such as ex-teachers? Some of them find it exceedingly difficult to live on the small pittances of which they are now in receipt. It is only just and equitable that something should be done for them. If at any time in the future the Government comes before the House asking for increases for these people they will I am sure receive the support of the entire House. Nobody can refuse help to the aged and the defenceless.

It was refreshing to hear the last speaker. I sat here listening to speakers on the Opposition Benches and I did not hear one constructive suggestion coming from that quarter. The whole desire appeared to be to discredit those who form this interParty Government. I may say right away that if it was a National Labour Government that was in power, and if this was a Labour Budget, we would probably deal with the matter in our own way. I will say to Deputy Lemass that I do not look upon the people who brought in this Budget as purely Fine Gael.

It is your Budget.

I am accepting that. It is not the Budget of any particular Party. I will make one suggestion to the Minister. He talked about those who are making excess profits, even after examination, and I say he should not have hesitated to take those excess profits from the people who made them. I think it was criminal for any group to take excess profits during the emergency period from the thousands of our people who were suffering dire privations. Deputies on the opposite benches, when they were in power in 1946 and 1947, gave a present to those people who made the excess profits and that present amounted to £3,600,000. I am quoting the words of the Minister for Finance at the time. Those who were responsible for making a present of that kind to people who exploited the majority in this country would have been better advised to have dealt with the unemployed, the old age pensioners and the widows and orphans.

I heard Deputy Kissane ask: "Where does Labour stand now?" That, apparently, was because of some remarks made by the Minister for Finance. Deputy Kissane was in this House last October when the then Taoiseach stated that if the workers were to look for more increases he would bring in legislation. I did not hear Deputy Kissane or Deputy Corry or any other Deputy over there saying he would object to that procedure. Since last October the majority of the workers have received from 11/- to 15/- of an increase. While there may be some justification for giving some kind of warning of the danger of increased wages in the absence of increased production, there was very little cause for it on that occasion. So far as Labour is concerned, we know where we stand.

As regards taxation, we have not much information as to the taxable capacity of this country. So far as I can ascertain, our national income and our production did not increase between 1926 and 1938. I did not hear much from Deputy Corry or other members of the Fianna Fáil Party on the subject of the decline in production during those years.

We had many promises during the election. Like Deputy Maguire, during the election campaign I made no promise about things that were not possible. I challenge Deputies who were with me in the campaign to contradict that. I told the people that we could never maintain or increase the standard of living until we increased production. What I advocated then—and I advocate it now—is that we want a fair share of the national income. Our cake can only be a certain size, and by our cake I mean our national income. Those in the country who are rendering service to it should get an equal share of that cake.

Do you now say they have got it?

The last Government allowed certain people to exploit the majority in this country. They allowed certain people to draw from the majority during the war years £40,000,000 in excess profits. Then in 1946 and 1947 they made those people a present of over £3,600,000. One of the things our present Minister should do is plump down on all excess profits and take the whole lot off them.

The Minister should have no fear in expending money in order to develop agriculture. I am afraid most of us are too anxious to balance the Budget. We would like to hear more about the country's taxable capacity and what it is capable of producing. It is a terrible thing that for some years we have had up to 70,000 of our people compelled to sign at the labour exchanges, compelled to remain unemployed and not given an opportunity of producing goods.

Like Deputy Maguire, I do not see anything revolutionary in this Budget. If we are to proceed on right lines I think the Minister will have to do much more revolutionary things than he has indicated in the Budget. He can rest assured that, so far as Labour is concerned, we are with him in seeing that justice will be done to the people who matter in this country—those who produce goods for the nation.

Higher taxes on the workers.

Major de Valera

This Budget can, perhaps, best be approached from the point of view of reducing taxation and from the point of view of reducing the cost of living because, apparently, it was from that standpoint that the Budget problem for this year was approached by the Minister. It is, therefore, relevant to ask how far, in fact, there has been a reduction in taxation. A reduction in taxation affecting the community as a whole is what really should concern us rather than the question of benefits to particular sections in the matter of taxation. When one examines it in that way what does one find? One finds that the Minister is unable to do better than his predecessor in the matter of income-tax; that he adopts the proposal to increase income-tax——

What did you say I did?

Major de Valera

You have adopted the proposal to increase income-tax.

I have adopted a proposal?

Major de Valera

Am I unfair in putting it that way?

No, not at all.

Major de Valera

I said that the Minister had adopted a proposal to increase income-tax and we can find no suggestion of any reduction of tax of this character.

You are not forgetting the £6,000,000?

Major de Valera

I am dealing with the actual tax which the taxpayer has to bear at the moment and the position with regard to that burden. I grant freely to the Minister that he has taken a certain sum off the original Estimate, but that is not the point. The point we are facing is, has there been a reduction in existing taxation? I started with the question of income-tax, and, far from having any reduction in taxation in respect of income-tax, I repeat that the Minister for Finance himself has been forced to adopt a proposal which was forecast by his predecessor involving an increase in income-tax. Now this is a matter of some importance because income-tax is one of those taxes that is nowadays levelled very generally over the whole community.

Having regard to the value of money and the general level of incomes, one finds, nowadays, the classes which bear the burden of income-tax are widely distributed throughout the whole community so as to embrace not only business people or professional people, but workers, even, in some cases, unskilled workers in certain trades and under certain circumstances. Of course everybody over a certain income must pay tax and there is no need to labour that point. I think that we must see that there has been no decrease in the tax in that important item which covers perhaps a greater number of people than any other direct form of taxation and which covers a wider number of classes than any other direct form of taxation. In that way we find that there is no reduction in a tax which is, perhaps, one of the greatest burdens on the lower-paid members of the community, those members who are, perhaps, in greatest need of relief. I am not denying that it is necessary to impose such a tax, but I am merely approaching it from the point of view of examining this Budget from the standpoint of how far it effects its avowed object of reducing taxation and reducing the cost of living.

Moving from income-tax we come to the question of other direct taxes. Since the Minister has assumed office he has been able to reduce the taxation on beer, entertainments and tobacco to a very considerable extent and nobody will deny him that. But as against the increase in income-tax, one asks the question whether, if it was possible to effect a saving as is reported, of the sum involved by saving on things that are really not necessary—I will not go so far as to call them luxuries—would it not be sound policy to give some relief on income-tax? Is it sound policy to reduce the taxation on beer, cigarettes and entertainments and at the same time to increase the taxation on the incomes of families who under present economic circumstances find it hard enough to live, in other words incomes, the bulk of which is applied to the maintenance of families and for the procurement of the necessities of life for the individuals of the community? Under this Budget that income is to suffer a further burden although we are in a position to relieve on the luxury side or the semi-luxury side, or rather on non-essentials, such as beer, entertainments and cigarettes. I simply pose that question to the Minister. I wonder are we wise in that.

Even if the Minister thought, because of various factors, that it would be necessary to reduce the taxes on commodities such as beer, entertainments and cigarettes, would it not have been preferable only to take a fraction and to try to alleviate the income-tax position rather than to adopt the attitude which the Minister and his Government have adopted? These are, I think, very fair questions to ask, and it is no answer to me to say that the previous Government would have had to increase the income-tax while leaving these taxes on beer, entertainments and cigarettes, because the previous Government had in view certain other things that are being wiped out by this present Government. That side of the account would have to be taken and looked at. I am granting the Minister full credit, if it is to be credit and if it is a saving. That is purely provisional because I have a few remarks to pass later and I am saving myself for that and do not want to be taken up shortly—but granting him full credit for capturing that sum which reduced the Estimate to the sum which he is budgeting for now, it leaves him with a certain sum of money to be found and he is finding the money in putting sixpence extra on income-tax. He has been able to save by means of the complete abolition of the last Supplementary Budget which imposed a tax on beer, entertainments, cigarettes and tobacco. Taking credit for what he has done in the present Budget, the Minister has still the alternative of keeping some tax on tobacco, beer and cigarettes which are non-essentials as against the imposition of income-tax. Why not have held some part of the tax on non-essentials and not put it on income-tax? The Minister approached this question, I think, with a view to undoing what he and his colleagues considered to be the evils of the Supplementary Budget. Let me, provisionally and for the moment, approach it in that spirit too.

The Minister was so concerned with getting rid of the evils flowing from the Supplementary Budget, why did he not take the course of leaving income tax as it was and leaving some tax on the other commodities or balance it in any way he liked and give some relief even if it were only to the people with very small incomes? I would be quite satisfied if the Minister had not put any increase on the very small incomes. If it was a question of reviewing the Supplementary Budget I think it would have been better to consider all the items rather than to go straight away and strike out the tax on non-essentials, leaving so many things which affect the essentials.

Now we come to the question of indirect taxation. Indirect taxation can arise in a number of forms under modern conditions. It can arise under the form of a tax paid on a commodity directly but I do not think that we are particularly interested in that in this Budget except in regard to certain categories. It can arise in increasing the burden through the operations of the executive in control of financial affairs. If, for example, subsidies were withdrawn it would have the effect of increasing the price of commodities. That form of indirect taxation might, however, be more properly dealt with under the heading of the cost of living. But indirect tax can arise more specifically and it can be described as nothing else than an indirect tax where money is collected, say, as a contribution or where money is collected in some way other than directly as tax to the central Executive, such as rates.

In this Budget there is an indication that we are being tempted to impose what really amounts to taxation in such indirect ways and to think that in escaping liability for the Central Fund by charging it in some other way or collecting it in some other way that we are reducing taxation. It does not matter to the person who has to pay what way it is collected from him. In that regard I would mention the supplementary allowances where, apparently, the proposal now is to increase contributions. If contributions are increased that is nothing more than a tax under another name. So, in so far as this Budget contains a proposal to increase contributions, we have a further indication of increased taxation. I think there is another proposal in regard to cash benefits recoupments which may have the effect of putting up rates. If it has the effect of putting up rates it is, in effect, an increase in taxation. As any ratepayer will tell you, it is very little consolation to him to find that the money which he has to pay out is divided into two categories, that he pays one cheque to the Revenue Commissioners' representatives directly and that the other goes to the rate collectors. It is very little solace to him to find that he simply has to treat it in two different accounts. The total sum of money that comes out of his pocket is the same.

So, as far as I have gone, what have we got? We have got in this Budget, not touching even necessaries, income-tax, increased contributions and, to be strictly fair, I will put it in this way, the probability or possibility at least of an increase of rates in certain quarters. Against that we have the very substantial reductions which the Minister has made in beer, tobacco, cigarettes, and so forth. That is the position. I wonder is such a distribution a wise or a desirable distribution?

Personally, I would be inclined to favour reliefs which would benefit the family, which would touch the necessaries of life, which would touch directly the problem of rearing families and of living up to a decent standard, especially for lower salaried workers and people like that as against the question of affording reliefs in what are not necessaries, to put it mildly.

On that showing then, I think that this Budget fails completely to show any real decrease in taxation under those heads which would be of benefit to the community at large. On the other hand, the decrease in taxation on the items which have been favoured seems to me to be encouraging that aspect of our life which under modern conditions needs least encouragement. If we have to face up to the difficulties of the present moment I think we should be prepared to cut down on our luxuries or near-luxuries and so provide the moneys which are necessary for the other things for which we must provide.

The picture is even less reassuring when one comes to consider the question of these food subsidies. In regard to the wheat subsidy, in effect, the bread and flour subsidy will remain. What we are doing is averaging the cost over a number of years. I may be wrong in this but that appears to me to mean nothing more than borrowing, so to speak, for the next five years ahead. We are taking credits from the years ahead and in effect we are borrowing this year up to a certain amount. If I read the Minister's figures correctly, it comes to about £7,000,000 over each of these five years. We are borrowing ahead over the next five years in order to relieve our Budgetary position this year. Of course, the burden which we are committing ourselves to this year must be paid for in the years ahead. Supposing we are to do the same thing next year and the year after it will not be a very happy situation. In any event, by taking this step now, we are precluding ourselves from certain benefits that good fortune might bring to us in the next years. We shall have to find the money for this year, that is, if I read the figures correctly. Again, I doubt the wisdom of such a policy. It has always been accepted that borrowing for current expenses of this nature is unwise and this device appears to me to be nothing more than borrowing.

Then we have the removal of the subsidies on oatmeal and margarine. These are commodities that are used in certain poor households fairly freely. If, as a result of the removal of the subsidies, the price of these commodities goes up, we are contributing directly to an increase in the cost of living for the consumers of these commodities.

Does the Deputy know how much it is?

Major de Valera

I said we are contributing. It may not be much.

Has the Deputy any idea of how much it is?

Major de Valera

I have not at the moment but it would be something.

Major de Valera

What is it per lb?

.0043 of a point in the cost of living.

Major de Valera

That is a different way of putting it. I should like the Minister to look at it from this point of view, that there are certain poor families whose cost of living is not represented by the index struck on the basis of the consumption of a large number of articles that that family does not consume. I shall see if I have a note of the actual articles comprised in the computation of that index.

Which index is the Deputy looking at?

Major de Valera

The cost of living index.

There are two of them.

Major de Valera

I know that. I am taking the general one.

You are taking the last one?

Major de Valera

Logically, I should ask the Minister that question because, since he gave a figure, I should like to know on what it is based.

I thought the Deputy was going to refer to commodities that were taken off.

Major de Valera

Whichever index it is, there were a number of commodities taken in that index that are not representative of the particular poor class that I am thinking of in connection with the consumption of oatmeal and margarine. Suppose it only amounts to a few pence per lb. on the commodity, it is a few pence on the lb. of margarine or oatmeal, if it is as much as that, and that is significant to them.

It is not significant.

Major de Valera

To a poor person.

It is not significant to any person.

Major de Valera

If that is the Minister's view, it is very well to have it— that the increase in the price of oatmeal or margarine would then be insignificant.

It is insignificant.

To the Minister. The Minister does not eat them.

Major de Valera

Let us take the adjustments on tea, sugar and butter. I can understand what the Minister is doing in withdrawing the subsidies from certain catering establishments, and if that were to affect only our big hotels here in the city I would be inclined to congratulate the Minister on his ingenuity in finding this particular manner of economising on a subsidy. The difficulty is in regard to the big hotels—the Minister knows the type I mean and I do not wish to name any one in particular in this Assembly. In that case, their other income and the money they get from their clients in other ways is so large compared to the items of tea, sugar and butter that it is very probable that in those institutions the withdrawal of the subsidy will not increase the price at all.

In those high-class hotels, the change in the subsidy probably will have no adverse reaction on the price of the meal charged to the customer. The trouble is that that is not likely to be the situation in the case of catering establishments which provide for the lower paid and salaried worker in the city. There is a large number of people who travel in from the outskirts every day and who have a meal in town during the day. Some of them have lunch, but very many of them, as a matter of economy, have tea and a bun, or something like that.

In many of the establishments which cater for these people, they have not got the resources and other sources of income of these big hotels and they will be compelled to pass on the increased price of tea, sugar and butter to their clients. The danger that I anticipate could materialise from this proposal, in short, is that it will have no adverse effect on the clientéle of the large hotels, but in the case of canteens and smaller institutions providing for city workers—and by worker I include not only the manual worker but the clerks and others who eat in the city every day—these workers will have forced upon them certain increased charges for their lunch. This removal of the subsidy in the case of these commodities will have the effect, if my reasoning is right, of increasing the cost of living on these people.

Looking at it vis-a-vis this Budget, many of these people will find that they have to pay more in income-tax and their daily lunch will cost them a little more, so the net effect will be that they are suffering an increase in taxation and a rise in the cost of living. How far such prognostications on my part will appear in practice I cannot say in actual figures, but they are fears that I entertain at this moment and I think it is valid for me to put that point of view to the Minister. I ask him whether that aspect has been considered and, if not, whether it will be considered and whether the necessary adjustments will be made; and if it has been considered, what precautions are being taken to see that that class of person does not suffer from the withdrawal of the subsidy, with a net increase in the cost of living for him.

On that showing, this Budget is not revolutionary. It cannot show a provision for reducing the general level of taxation—and I have given the Minister full credit, and do it again, for the reduction in the tax on beer, cigarettes and so forth. But does that compensate for the increase in direct and indirect ways in other cases? In his own statement, the Minister uses the fact that he gave these reductions as a justification for the imposition of, say, an increased amount of contribution in respect of certain allowances. This Budget does not reduce taxation in its general level, nor does it reduce the cost of living. Its tendency in regard to subsidies is to put up the cost of living. Bad and all, from certain aspects, as the Supplementary Budget so much complained of was, it did halt a certain trend and did bring down the cost of living to a certain small degree. It was unpalatable. I myself from the far side of the House asked the then Minister to consider the question of the pint and many of us would have liked to alter some of these things. Yet there is this much to be said—it halted a certain trend which had got altogether out of hand in 1947. On the Vote on Account, I traced the factors which went to increase the cost of living in 1947. That Budget did halt it. Will this Budget maintain things steady, let alone improve the position? There is nothing in it which shows a marked improvement and, on the general level, any improvement, on the position as it was last autumn. It is, therefore, a question as to whether the general policy adopted by the Minister in this regard is wise.

There are some disquieting features in this Budget. We are all talking about the cost of living, taxation and an increase in production—but what are we doing to tackle the problem involved? On the Vote on Account, I traced in some detail the factors which increased the cost of living in 1947. I think the arguments which I advance were valid. Briefly, they were three, and I wish merely to state them and do not intend to repeat my argument. The increase was due to the increased inflationary pressures in the world at large, to the rise in world prices; they were due to a certain sympathetic rise in prices here; and they were due to the removal of the Standstill Order. Over the external pressure, the then Minister, like the present Minister, could have no control and in any event I can find no proposal in this Budget which would be calculated to deal with the external inflationary pressures, with the outside forces affecting the value of sterling. In regard to the rise in our own local prices the present Minister is faced with the very same problem which faced his predecessor. He cannot simply say to our own producers: "You will hold your price at that level and sell at such a level to the consumer," because he knows that to do so would drive the producer below the economic level and would put him out of production. He cannot do that and neither could his predecessor.

The only thing that could be done in the matter of wages would be an attempt to control wages voluntarily at first. The Minister's predecessor advocated that.

Major de Valera

The control of wages under three headings. I take it that that is what the Minister wants, since he has threatened compulsion at a later stage if he cannot get it in that way.

Compulsion in what?

Major de Valera

I will read what the Minister said:

"I would make a most earnest appeal to all employees not to seek further increases in monetary remuneration or improvements in working conditions, unless warranted by exceptional circumstances. Recent experience confirms that the benefit of an increase in money incomes is rapidly swallowed up by rising prices."

What about the former Taoiseach?

Major de Valera

I am answerable for myself. When speaking on the Vote on Account I pointed out the danger of a race between prices and wages—Official Report, Vol. 110, No. 4, Col. 377. The Minister is probably right in stating:

"Recent experience confirms that the benefit of an increase in money incomes is rapidly swallowed up by rising prices. Another important factor in the present inflated structure of wholesale and retail prices is the high level of profits in trade and industry. When the excess corporation profits tax and excess surtax were abolished two years ago by my predecessor, with effect as from the end of 1946, it was expected that this would be followed by a general fall in prices, with consequential effects in the shape of a reduced cost of living and an increase in the purchasing power of incomes. This expectation has unfortunately not been realised, and from the figures which I have examined it is clear that excessive profits are still being taken in a number of instances, despite all efforts at price control. I have already appealed for the cooperation of the business community in the task of bringing down prices, but so far without result. If inflationary forces are to be prevented from getting completely out of hand, there may be no alternative but to restore the machinery of control embodied in the various Standstill Orders. This is not in contemplation but if it should be forced upon us it would be accompanied this time by the appropriation of the whole, not merely a part, of any excess profits."

Surely that refers to profits now.

Does it not?

Major de Valera

Of course it does, but it refers also to the machinery of control embodied in the various Standstill Orders.

If you like to take it that way you can do so.

Major de Valera

If that is not wide enough to include the Standstill Orders——

Ask anyone to read it.

Major de Valera

I ask the Minister, who is a lawyer too, to read it.

I have real it. I composed it.

Major de Valera

The Minister rightly appealed to workers and to people who got an increase in remuneration which amounted, he says, to from 100 to 160 per cent. not to seek further remuneration. He dealt with the question of profits. In other words, he is requesting voluntary control. His predecessor did the same and he is compelled, as was his predecessor, to say that if he cannot get the necessary results voluntarily he will be forced to seek them compulsorily. If that is not what the Minister says I am afraid I do not understand English.

I am afraid the Deputy does not.

Major de Valera

I will have to learn the Minister's English.

That is good King's English but the Deputy may not understand that.

Major de Valera

The Minister's English is good King's English. We always knew that.

You have come a good bit towards it.

Major de Valera

In regard to these three facts that are putting up the cost of living there were only three possible remedies, and, as far as I can see, the Minister has not been able to improve on them. He has, however, by making these adjustments here, in my opinion, taken some very undesirable steps. I have already traced the trend in regard to taxation. Not only does the Minister find himself—I am giving him credit for the best of intentions—completely unable to redeem his promises to reduce the cost of living and to reduce the taxation in any real sense affecting the community as a whole but he finds himself forced in this year anyway, no matter what the reasons are, to resort to certain borrowing expedients. He has already raised a loan. I am not sure what the exact appropriations of that loan are—perhaps the Minister will tell us. I would ask him in detail the specific appropriations of the sums of money collected by him under that loan. I am not criticising that loan but the fact is that it has been raised and that it will have to be paid back with interest. That is number one contribution by the present Government to the financial affairs of the State. I hope that it will be applied in a way that will be beneficial to the community. In raising it he would have our help and support for such purposes but he cannot get away from the fact that, as a whole, it represents a debt that has to be paid back.

Is the Deputy asking for the details of the appropriations of the loan? I will give him the details, with pleasure, in a moment. They are your debts.

Major de Valera

I am asking the Minister to specify in detail the appropriations. It is very easy to say that they are somebody else's debts.

It is very hard to meet somebody else's debts.

Major de Valera

The device for deferring the raising of the wheat subsidy for this year's commitment is, in effect, a loan. Then we have a further device for the raising of a loan in the device of the beer duties. I congratulate the Minister on his ingenuity in this matter. However, when he tries to collect, in the current year, 13 months' instalments from the brewers —if I read this aright—it will leave only 11 months' instalments next year.

Hear, hear!

Major de Valera

What is that but a loan from next year to this year? I question, in regard to the wheat subsidy, and also in regard to the beer duty, whether these devices which, in effect, amount to a loan, are in the public interest. They will have to be paid back. The money will have to be found. They do not, therefore, represent anything in the nature of a saving. If it is not paid this year, posterity in subsequent years will have to pay. On top of that, there is the complete failure to alleviate either taxation or the cost of living.

What do we find, looking at it from a long-term point of view? Whatever may be the faults or mistakes of the previous Administration, there was a drive forward towards development. You had to pay for it. I am open to argument as to how much it was worth it or how much it was not. The present Minister approaches this Budget primarily from the point of view of retrenchment. When all is said and done, some of the biggest items he has been able to find, the savings in this Budget, come from retrenchment, and from what retrenchment? From the following items. We have already dealt with defence and I do not intend to go into it again. More will be said about that in the future. We now have a proposal to abandon the scheme for mineral exploration.

Surely if we are looking forward to increased production, development of our mineral resources, such as they are, and the surveying of them should be of importance to us here, particularly after the lessons of the emergency. Even if we are only to have readily exploitable resources, we should go on with that development. The Labour Party has always advocated such things. Provision was made for such development and, if I remember rightly, that provision was the subject of a certain amount of acclamation on the part of Deputies now supporting the Government. Nevertheless, as part of the present Government's retrenchment programme, the Minister wipes out that provision and with it the prospect of such development.

The Minister will probably say that it is not economic and that he will have to have due regard to economics and all that. I say to the Minister that it was precisely that outlook which brought the Governments of the day after the war before the last into the predicament in which they found themselves. In their efforts to retrench they forgot the need for developing and for balancing. That brought the Minister himself logically to make many speeches that perhaps he would not like to have quoted to him now. The question of finance, the question of finding money, was the paramount and dominant matter for consideration. The Minister himself on one occasion—he has had it thrown in his teeth often since—faced ruthlessly up to its implications. I wonder is the Minister coming back to that again. Taking this matter of not developing mineral resources, together with the cutting back of turf development, etc., I wonder whether that is a wise policy. I sympathise with the Minister in his problem of finding the money. I do think, however, that he is unwise in taking that attitude. When all is said and done, it is better to have real activity and to try to develop wealth than to cut down on such development in order to show a proper balance sheet. The Tourist Board is now to go I believe. I understand the building of national schools may be suspended. Am I right in that?

Quite wrong.

Major de Valera

I am glad to hear that.

The building of some of them will be suspended.

Major de Valera

The building of some national schools will be suspended.

How many did you build last year?

Major de Valera

Do not mind that. You are in charge now. Provision was made for the building of a certain number of national schools and everything was set for that. You have the responsibility for any changes in that programme now. You cannot evade that by asking how much we did or did not do. You have it in your hands now. The plans are there. Why are the schools not to be built?

I am trying to point out that you could not spend the money last year.

Materials are plentiful now.

I wish they were.

Major de Valera

The short-wave station is to go.

Major de Valera

I have one observation to make on that. One of the reasons why we were interested in a short-wave station was that during the war we found ourselves in a rather isolated position and, if my memory serves me right, at that time we were anxious to have a short-wave station as a means of communicating with the outside world in certain eventualities.

You are doing it now without a station.

Major de Valera

I am talking in terms of possible defence. I am raising the question whether it would not be wise for us, since we realised in the past the effects of its absence, to get a short-wave station to give us an independent means of communicating with the world at large in certain eventualities. That apparently is to go. I doubt if it is wise, from a defence point of view.

Is a short wave station any good without a short wave-length?

Major de Valera

That is not the point. Under the circumstances I am visualising, you are now going to find yourself without any wave-length. You can get out a wave-length that will penetrate——

Are you sure you can?

Major de Valera

You can in these circumstances. During the war we felt it a number of times. Actually the Emergency Scientific Bureau had as one of their tasks the question of trying to improvise such a station because, in certain circumstances, we would have been unable to communicate with the outside world, as the range of our long-wave station is very limited. In these circumstances, during the war its loss was felt. There may be difficulty in getting a wave-length assigned in peace time. But, if you have the station, I think you will probably get a wave-length. That is my own personal opinion. In any event, if you have a station, you will be able to communicate with the outside world during an emergency when you would not be so terribly worried about legal distinctions and trespassing on somebody else's.

That is not the only difficulty.

It does not matter. Let us have the station and we will overcome the difficulties.

Major de Valera

It is a difference between two approaches, and the Minister's approach is that it is too expensive to do anything.

Not at all. It is futile.

Major de Valera

Our approach was to get things done. However, I am trying to take this in a reasonable way and I shall try to resist the temptation that the Minister is putting in my way to be a little more forcible. I shall have to conclude in a moment.

There is no question on the adjournment.

The short-wave station is still open for another half-hour.

Major de Valera

I may have a few more facts to broadcast that the Minister may not find to his liking. I am trying to approach this Budget from a reasonable point of view. After all, although it is very entertaining, it is the country at large which has to pay for the expense of Government. Our function is to examine these things critically and carefully. As I said, I feel that in this Budget, although it is not by any means revolutionary, the Minister has failed in any substantial degree to reach the target he set himself of reducing the cost of living and reducing taxation. On the other hand, in finding the money, notwithstanding his economies within the service, he has been forced to take two steps at least which threaten a tendency towards a rise in the cost of living in respect of certain lower paid workers, salaried workers and even manual workers. He has been unable to avoid the forecasted increase in income-tax. Then on top of that, in effecting his retrenchment, he has been forced to take certain steps which have brought even from his own supporters and from some of the Parties like the Labour Party a hornet's nest about his ears. I wonder is he wise in these things.

One last word with regard to inflationary pressures. The Minister himself, when on these benches, was very insistent on the fact that the Administration in his view appeared to take no cognisance of external inflationary pressures. There was the inflow of a large volume of money into this country through the adjustment of the value of sterling, and the Minister's Party went so far as to blame the Administration of the day here for the depreciation in the value of the £, notwithstanding the fact that the £ here was, of course, linked at par value with sterling, and that we had no control over sterling. I do not think the Minister had advocated a break with sterling. I was expecting, in view of the fact that the Minister when he sat on this side made such play with these matters that, at least, he would have adverted to them in the Budget. He has not done so, and therefore I can only conclude that now, with responsibility upon his shoulders, he has to take certain hard facts into consideration just as his predecessors did. I do not want to exploit that situation now against the Minister, but I do want to say that, notwithstanding his Budget and the change that has taken place, our problem remains. It is fundamentally the same problem as the problem which faced his predecessor in the autumn of last year. The Minister, however, has this advantage that he has the proposals for European reconstruction to fall back upon, but except for this, and for the aid which he can get from the Marshall Plan and the aid which he can get through any drift-back to stability in the outside situation, he finds himself in the same position.

As I said at the outset he has had prices going up and the cost of living going up because of three things. There is first the world situation. It may better itself for him. I sincerely hope it does. There are the increased prices for our home produced commodities and the tendency towards inflation through the increase in wages here. I hope that the European aid programme will come to his rescue on the first point. He has talked about getting after excess profits, but so far he has made no proposal. He has threatened the reimposition of the excess profits tax, but he has not yet disclosed to us any examination of that particular problem. I know it was examined in the past, and I wonder whether, at the end of the examination, the Minister will not find himself confronted with the same hard facts as his predecessors were confronted with in the past, namely that there are no big savings to be got from that quarter—I mean big in relation to the amount of money which he has to find for his Budget. On the other hand, he will have a difficult position due to the increased prices which our farmers are getting for home produced commodities. Since he cannot cut these prices he can only subsidise as his predecessor did. He cannot cut prices anywhere, or does he propose to? I do not think he does. What can he do then with regard to these except to subsidise? Does the present Budget forecast a removal of further subsidies in the future and, if so, how can it affect prices?

We have already had our argument about the wages position. In other words, the Minister has the same problem as his predecessor and he has not been able to produce any more revolutionary answer to it. The economies which he has effected have been effected at a cost which, frankly, I think they are not worth. That is so in regard to some of these items anyway. The public had been expecting a Budget which would compulsorily reduce prices and which, at the same time, would reduce taxation.

In all this discussion I have omitted the motor car because I was trying to deal with the general impact of the Budget on the community as a whole rather than on classes. But take the case of the oil tax and even leaving out the private owner of a motor car. Take distributing firms which are dependent on petrol for transport. How are they going to be affected by this tax? Already the representative of one of the leading firms in the city has threatened a delivery charge. If there is a delivery charge on my groceries is not that going to put up the price of my groceries and put up my cost of living? I am trying to be strictly fair to the Minister and not to exaggerate, but surely he must see that this tax may tend towards a movement to increase bus fares, and if they are increased will not that put up the cost of living on the many civil servants and other classes of workers who have to travel to their work in the city every day? They get a certain salary and have to live out of it. To juggle with the cost-of-living figures will not help them very much when they find that they have to pay a higher bus fare to get to their work or, if they have to take a meal in town, to pay more for it. Is the net result of this Budget for many of these people who pay income-tax to be that they will have to pay 6d. more in income-tax, plus a dearer lunch in town and plus higher bus fares?

And dearer margarine.

Major de Valera

And plus dearer margarine, and dearer oatmeal if the Minister wants to have his joke, and I suppose plus cheaper cigarettes and beer and so forth. Do Deputies opposite think that a man's wife and children can exist on beer and cigarettes?

The wife may smoke too.

Major de Valera

But is that good economy? Is it good from the point of view of public policy that we should allow the necessaries of life to increase in their cost while we pander to the not-necessaries?

Will the Deputy advocate the re-imposition of the duty on beer and tobacco?

Major de Valera

I shall make one reservation, as I did when speaking on a former occasion on the other side of the House. I asked the Minister at that time not to put a tax on the pint because the pint was not in that category. In regard to other liquors, if it is a choice between increasing income-tax, increasing bus fares and a tax on food or a tax on beer, I say that if I had that choice I would put it on beer.

You put it on all of them.

Major de Valera

I would try to exempt the pint for the reason I gave.

Did you not vote for that tax?

Major de Valera

Certainly.

Although you did not believe in it?

Major de Valera

I was a member of a Party and I voted with that Party but at the same time I expressed my own view. I have no apologies to make for that at all. To get back to the question I was asked in regard to other things, if it were a question of balance—I do not say that the Minister should not have reduced the tax on some of these items but he ought to have struck a more suitable balance as between them—I say in our approach to these things, necessaries in that sense come first.

When did the bus fares go up?

Major de Valera

Anyway, it is very apparent that, by what I have said, I have made certain people on the right-centre from me uncomfortable, but that was not my purpose at all. I want to approach this matter in an objective spirit. I am prepared to wait for the Minister's answers and to argue with him. It is not from the point of view of making political capital out of the question that I am approaching it in this way. I hope I have shown that the balancing of this Budget is unbalanced, if I might put it that way, that the Minister has been too constrained by the promises he made before he assumed office and before he examined the facts, and that he could have given a much better performance if he had not prematurely committed himself in one direction without examining the problem as a whole.

These are the criticisms I wish to make and I have to leave it at that. A year, anyway, will tell us the whole story. It will be interesting to see whether the Minister will be forced to impose these controls to which he referred. It will be interesting to see whether his hopes or my fears will be realised. Personally, for the good of the country, I hope that it will not work out——

That you will be wrong again.

Major de Valera

——in the way I fear. I should be very glad to feel that the Minister can by such a device as he adopted in the case of tea, sugar and butter, save the Exchequer something. That device will, I am afraid, pass nothing on to the people who go into the big hotels but it will pass it on to the people who go into the small canteens. If it does not do that there is something to be said for this approach. I have no figures that would enable me intelligently to deal with the reduction in the traders' margins. I realise that with the new increase in the ration, there is an automatic increase in the turnover but in the absence of specific data I do not feel warranted in criticising that particular item, approving of it or otherwise.

It would not be fair for me to leave the Budget without saying that, though I do not think it can be done without serious repercussions on the rest of our economy, I am glad to observe that the Minister has been able to give these reliefs in regard to pensions. I would have been more glad to see these reliefs given if they had come from the maintenance of some amount of tax on non-essentials rather than on some of the things that are involved in this Budget.

Are you going to vote against it?

Major de Valera

Deputy O'Higgins is going back to his old catch-cry: "Are you going to vote against it?" We vote on the Budget as a whole.

Answer the question.

Deputy de Valera is making a speech and is not under cross-examination.

Major de Valera

I think it a good thing if such reliefs can be given but it would have been better to have done it in another way. There are a number of things in this Budget, as I see it, that are, to say the least of it, dangerous for the future. On turning over the Minister's speech I find the entertainments duty and the question of wines. On the question of wines, the Minister has posed in this Legislative Assembly a very interesting moral question. The wines here consumed are luxury wines; nobody can say that they are in the nature of a necessity. They are luxury wines and they are consumed by the type of person in the luxury class mostly. We have, therefore, here two conflicting interests. The Minister says that we put too much of a tax on wine, that the consumption went down in consequence and that we are not getting sufficient revenue from it. What I shall call the finance administration, qua finance administration, says: “We had better get more wine drunk in the country so that we can get more money.”

That is not right.

Major de Valera

It looks very like it. The Minister gave as his reason——

May I correct the Deputy? We say: "Let us get the consumption of wine back to the same point as before the taxes were increased and we shall get more revenue."

Major de Valera

The finance machine, so to speak, feels that it is a very sad thing that the consumption of luxury wine decreased. I do not know how we are tied up with foreign exchange in this matter but the decrease in the consumption of luxury wine cost the revenue apparently a certain amount. On the other hand, I should like to urge on the Minister, from the point of view of the community as a whole, that other people in this community are suffering certain hardships owing to general economic conditions. His colleagues on his left will give him all the details of the picture. In such a situation, is it a good thing that we should encourage the spending of money on such luxury items? We have been talking of luxury expenditure. Here we have a provision directly encouraging expenditure on a luxury of the most extreme type——

Major de Valera

——simply because a certain proportion of that will flow into the Exchequer. I sympathise with the purely financial temptation in that regard but from the point of view of the general good I question whether it is wise——

To do what?

Major de Valera

To try to encourage the drinking of wine back to the point at which it formerly stood in order that we may get an adequate return.

Did the amount of wine consumed last August annoy the Deputy's conscience?

Major de Valera

I am talking about the position at the moment. I am talking of the desirability of this public Assembly sponsoring such an approach and I am perfectly entitled to do that.

The Deputy is not very logical.

Major de Valera

I think it is a perfectly fair comment. Is it right to encourage expenditure on the consumption of commodities such as luxury wines in order that a percentage of the money spent will flow back into the Exchequer?

Does the Deputy suggest that the worker's wife is not entitled to have a glass of Hall's wine if she feels she needs it?

Major de Valera

Hall's wine is a very different type of wine from that dealt with here. A specific exemption would deal with that case, if necessary.

Is the Deputy ill enough to get a glass?

Major de Valera

I should like to congratulate the Minister on the excellent way in which Fine Gael has got everybody else under the Party Whip. Not only is the coalition staying together but Fine Gael policy has been accepted so beautifully. However, so much for the wines. I have said it twice and I do not intend to say it again, but I doubt the wisdom, from the public point of view, of doing it.

You have not answered.

Major de Valera

What is worrying me is that I have approached this matter, so far as I can, in a dispassionate and objective way, but the Deputy is making me feel that I am enjoying myself.

You are providing a certain amount of enjoyment.

Major de Valera

There are a few more matters in this Budget which might be mentioned, one of which is the entertainments duty. How far will the provision with regard to live performances have an adverse effect on employed talent? I am thinking of the City of Dublin which I represent and towards which I have a particular duty. It may not be an important matter in the country, but it may very well be important in the City of Dublin. How far will this provision have a direct effect on people employed? I sympathise with the Minister——

You need not. It has no effect.

Major de Valera

It is easy for the Minister to say that. The patent theatres are in a class apart and that is very satisfactory. Will it have any effect on employment in other theatres in Dublin City?

Major de Valera

Is the Minister perfectly certain?

Absolutely certain.

Major de Valera

The Minister says it will not disemploy one person?

I think not—not in Dublin.

Major de Valera

That may be the Minister's information at the moment, but I ask him to look into it carefully again and see if it is so.

If the Deputy gives me any information to the contrary, I will have it examined microscopically.

Major de Valera

Very well.

Will the Deputy tell me now what he is talking about?

Representations will be made to the Minister in due course.

About what?

The disemployment of variety artistes.

It was the previous Minister who employed foreigners.

Disemployment by reason of the change?

Major de Valera

I put the question to the Minister and the Minister said he was sure that no one would be disemployed. I say that I hope so, but I ask him to inquire again. I leave it now to people with more specific information. I confess that I am talking in the general sphere.

Without any information.

Major de Valera

Not quite.

Tell me what the information is.

Major de Valera

Let me put it this way: are there not theatres in Dublin which are getting an exemption because certain artistes perform at certain times?

There were.

Tell me where they were.

The Ritz Cinema, in Ringsend.

Wholly or mainly a live show?

It only got exemption in those circumstances.

No. They are enjoying the benefit of the concession in respect of entertainments tax.

Do you know it was getting the exemption?

My informant was the proprietor.

Deputy de Valera is only in reserve to-night.

I think his prompter from behind was better than the one in front.

Major de Valera

The Deputy is open to a very hurtful answer, but I will not make it.

Will Deputy MacEntee give me the case again?

I can give it when I am speaking. I want to allow Deputy de Valera to speak. It is quite clear that the Minister does not want to hear him.

Deputy McCann will give me the information.

Major de Valera

Another matter the Minister mentioned in the Budget was this question of foreign travel. He proposes to make available now certain sums for foreign travel, in conformity, I think, with somewhere abroad. In the main, it is only the better-off classes in this country who will go for holidays abroad.

Is that true?

Major de Valera

In the main, is it not?

Nobody will go abroad but better-class people?

In the main.

Major de Valera

There is only one question I want to ask the Minister in that regard. He included a reference to it in his Budget. Does it involve any commitment for the State? He does not have to find these sums of money internally. They are found by the person who proposes to travel.

Major de Valera

So do I, especially when they are, in the main, the more leisured classes. Does it involve any alteration of or burden on our balance of payments position? Will it have any repercussions on our external situation? It is bound to have a certain amount of repercussion, and I should like to know to what extent this provision will affect our balance of payments situation. I should also like to know in this connection how far the remuneration we are getting through tourists will be correspondingly cut off by the proposed provision in respect of the tourist trade. I understand that certain reorganisations are envisaged. The effect of these—I am again open to correction by the Minister—may very well be to reduce the monetary income from these tourist sources. That is the effect in one direction. That will have to be looked at in conjunction with the effect of this provision for giving our money abroad, that is, for doing the reverse. What will be the combined effects of these two departures on the part of the new administration on our general position? It does not appear to me to be shown in this Budget.

Do not some of our travellers expect to bring home more with them than they take with them?

Major de Valera

I move to report progress.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again on Wednesday, 12th May.
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