Half the number which were needed. Let it be remembered that at that time land was practically worthless and could have been easily acquired at any figure which Fianna Fáil liked to offer the land owners, because its value had been reduced considerably. At present there are difficulties in acquiring land because there is a dispute regarding the actual price which should be paid. That position did not exist at that time. It should be remembered that it is the people who will go into these houses built on this dear land who will have to pay for the neglect of Fianna Fáil in the past when they could have got the land cheaply. They actually reduced the value of the land by their own policy. They failed to acquire it then. They left this Government in the position that they have to pay a high price for land which eventually will have to be paid by the people who go into the houses.
One other cause of delay is the compulsory purchase Order method of acquiring land. When there is a dispute regarding the value of land, this method is usually resorted to. In view of the fact that very often such cases drag on for a year or two years, it is desirable that land should be acquired, where possible, without the application of this compulsory purchase Order method. The Fianna Fáil Party took five years to reach their peak production of houses. They boast that in 1938 — in fact, I think the figures for two years were included in the 1938 total — they provided something like 18,000 houses. Now they are not satisfied because we have not reached their peak level after a period of 16 months. I have no doubt that the inter-Party Government will succeed in providing 20,000 houses in 1950. That will exceed the 1938 figure. As I say, another year was included in the figure supplied by the Fianna Fáil Deputies.
The question of the road grants seems to annoy many Deputies on the opposite benches. It must be remembered that the effect of the road grants normally should not take place until after the 1st July. Yet many Deputies are complaining that the effect has already taken place in many counties. I can say that in County Dublin there have been no ill-effects so far as employment is concerned and it is not expected that there will be. There are more persons employed by the Dublin County Council at the present time than in any previous year in the last 20 years and they are receiving constant employment. In fact, they are finding it difficult to obtain men for the carrying out of the ordinary tarring operations which take place during the summer period.
I was surprised to hear Deputy Burke so vocal with regard to housing conditions and the need for housing at present because, on examining his past statements, I find that he was not a bit worried then about the homeless people of County Dublin and he never agitated on their behalf. He was quite satisfied to see them living in railway carriages and bus bodies or anywhere else they could manage. Since the change of Government, he is not at all satisfied to see people living under these conditions, which did not cause him any anxiety when he was on this side of the House when he remained perfectly silent on this matter. It is suggested that emigration is taking place by reason of the fact that local authorities are unable to give employment as a result of the cutting down of the road grants. I suggest that one of the things which encourages emigration is the lack of proper housing conditions for the people. If they are not satisfied at home, if they are living in overcrowded conditions, the first thing that occurs to them is to get to a place where they will have better living conditions.
In County Dublin, and perhaps in other counties, there is a practice growing up on the part of people to reside in bus bodies and railway carriages on waste land near the seaside. That practice shows that the housing shortage is acute. It is undesirable to see these "timber towns" springing up in various parts of County Dublin and I suppose in other coastal counties also. I agree that it is difficult to say to people in Dublin City: "You must sleep on the stairs or on the landing because there is no room in which you can sleep. Perhaps you must take turns with other members of the family or with other families to sleep in the beds at certain hours which would be suitable." I know that the Dublin County Council has taken steps to permit of residence in bus bodies and railway carriages by the issue of licences. The licensing method is a good controlling factor. It will ensure that the people of County Dublin will be provided with the houses they need, as the council will not be faced with the necessity of providing houses for persons who have come from other local authority areas.
I am glad to hear from the Minister for Local Government that local authorities will interest themselves in machine turf schemes and turf production for the limited use to which this machine turf can be put. I welcome the machine turf scheme because I believe we can get fuel which will be acceptable to the people of the towns and cities of this country. They were too long using hand-won water saturated turf sods and they became prejudiced against it. However, I think it cannot be said that the same prejudice will operate against machine turf because, when price and quality are taken into consideration, machine turf can compare favourably with the latent heat that is obtainable from coal. That reminds me of the large heaps of coal in the Phoenix Park still. I think it is not so much coal now as a big heap of grey stones. I do not think that even local authorities will use that heap of stones and I suggest that some use should be made of this purchase other than leaving it lying there in the Phoenix Park.
There is an inclination on the part of trade unions to restrict the entry of persons into the skilled trades. I am inclined to think that the output of housing is controlled in a big way by the number of skilled operatives in the trade. A house cannot be delivered until it is plastered and I know that there is a great shortage of plasterers in the City of Dublin and the County of Dublin besides a shortage of carpenters. I know there is a difficulty for persons desiring to enter these trades and, in particular, the plastering trade. Although they may be able to plaster just as well as the man who is a member of a union and is plastering, they are not allowed to plaster. However, they will be allowed to plaster if they go to Britain, commence plastering, join a union there and then come back here. They will then be admitted to the union on this side which will enable them to perform that work here. That restriction should be relaxed until the housing shortage, especially in Dublin City, has been relieved to some extent. Free entry into these two key trades, in my opinion, would relieve the position. We would not then have to be bribing skilled workers to come back from Britain because the workers in this country would be permitted to work in the skilled trades by reason of the fact that they would have been accepted as members of the respective unions.
At the present time the cost of building is inclined to leave the rents at a level which could be regarded as being beyond the means of the wage-earners on the lower scales. I am inclined to advocate that the Minister should examine the possibility of extending the period so that the weekly rent could be lower than it is expected to be in respect of the new houses in course of erection. I know that the system of differential rents is operated in several counties, but it is a strange method to some counties who have not already tried it out. I should like the Minister to examine the possibility of suggesting to all local authorities that the system of differential rents should be employed. The design and size of houses at the present time leave nothing to be desired. There are very good houses, both in Dublin County and in Dublin City. I expect that the design and the accommodation in other counties is equally good. However, I want to say that there are many working families not earning high wages who would be quite happy to receive allocation of a similar house which would meet their normal requirements and which would be within their reach so far as the rent to be applied is concerned. It cannot be disputed that the houses which are being provided at the present time have very good accommodation, quite enough rooms, spacious rooms and, in fact, they are ideal. However, the fact that they are of such a high standard results in the misfortune that the rents are abnormally high, and I think that if some system cannot be adopted, such as the lengthening of the period or some kind of finance made available from the Transition Fund, it will be difficult for these people to go into those fine houses and pay an economic rent or even a rent which could not be regarded as economic.
The Deputies of the Opposition complained that the progress was too slow in their view. When they were making that complaint they always spoke about the peak production figure of 1938—18,000 houses. I feel sure that they do not expect this Government to reach a peak which it took them five years to reach, within the space of a year or two. There is no doubt that at the present rate of production we will reach that peak which they reached in 1938, in a shorter time.
At this stage I should like to mention to the Minister for Local Government that the motor registration office in Dublin City serves a colossal number of motorists. I would hazard a guess that this registration office is used by about 30,000 motorists. It is centralised there and the people from Dún Laoghaire, Crumlin, all Dublin City and Dublin County must go there to licence their cars and obtain driving licences. The result is that at the quarter periods people go there and find themselves at the end of a queue of 300 or 400 at any hour from 10 o'clock until 3 o'clock on any day for at least a fortnight. That is not service. It will be remembered that there was a motor registration office to serve Dublin County and Dún Laoghaire in Parnell Square, and it is high time, in my opinion, that the office should be located there again or somewhere away from Kildare Street where it is at the present time.
It may be argued that the registration office for these three local authority areas is centralised and that, perhaps, more efficiency is obtained in that way, but certainly, so far as the public are concerned, they are not getting the service that I think they are entitled to. For that reason I suggest that the Minister should consider the possibility of locating registration offices in the three local authority areas, namely, Dún Laoghaire Borough Council, Dublin County, and Dublin City. If that were done there would be less confusion, even amongst the Guards. At present a Guard may stop you and ask: "Where is your licence?" You will say: "I went to the registration office on the first day of the quarter and found 500 people there in a queue; I could not wait and I went there again on two or three occasions later and found the same conditions obtaining," or one may say: "I posted on the licence." Even in that case it often happens that a fortnight or three weeks elapse before the licence is issued. The reason for that is the huge volume of work to be done in that one office.
Last year I remember I suggested that the possibility of having the roads repaired by contract should be examined. On that occasion the present Minister for Local Government expressed his disagreement with my suggestion and advanced very sound arguments in support of the contention that he put forward. At the same time I should like if he would give this suggestion a trial, because where work has to be carried out the question of efficiency arises. I am of the opinion that if a contractor were responsible for the maintenance of, say, 100 miles of county roads under the supervision of the engineers, who would have to certify for the work carried out by him, this work of repairing and maintaining roads could be performed very effectively. It may be suggested that the method would not be as cheap as the present one of having the work done by road men. I think that the proposal is worthy of a trial. I know that roads were repaired by contract in, I think, the year 1945. As well as I remember, some British firms contracted to do the necessary work, and I am sure the Minister would be able to make some comments on the work done by them at that time.
We are faced in the County Dublin with the possibility and the probability that the Dublin Corporation boundary will be extended considerably into the county. Dublin County has been losing ground for the past 25 years so that more houses could be provided for Dublin City. In view of the fact that 28,000 families now need to be housed, there is no doubt that the city boundary will be extended further into the county. The main difficulty in regard to that is that Dublin County is spending money in providing amenities in areas which will eventually be taken over by the Dublin Corporation, and that the ratepayers in the county are at the moment contributing the money required for the provision of these amenities and services. Well, they do not like doing that when they realise that in a few years the Dublin Corporation will be extending itself into those areas.
I suggest that the possibility of building the city upwards instead of outwards should be examined. I heard a Deputy say last night in the course of this debate that the renovation of tenement houses has resulted in the provision of very good accommodation for large numbers of people, and that the people are happy in them because of the fact that they are able to continue living in their own localities. They prefer that to being removed several miles from the environment they have been accustomed to. I think that position still obtains, and that the homeless families that are to be rehoused would be only too glad if housing provision were made for them in the city, but not, of course, under the old conditions. For that reason, I suggest to the Minister that he should consider the possibility of building higher houses. The present ones have only one storey. If those higher houses were built in blocks, and in suitable areas, the people would not be faced with the heavy expense which falls on them when they are removed to outlying districts. They would be saved the payment of bus fares; they would not have to travel long distances to their work or to do their shopping. All these things count a great deal with these families, even though we are doing our best at the moment to provide them with houses.
With regard to the Small Dwellings Act, its administration presents some snags. Some people are disappointed because they are not receiving the weekly wage which, in the opinion of the local authority, would qualify them for a loan under the Act. On the other hand, if a person is receiving a certain wage and has a certain amount of money to deposit, he can get permission to avail of a loan. There are delays with regard to payment. I think that is undesirable, because it causes considerable inconvenience to people who have made their own arrangements for the financing and building of a house. When the money does not reach them promptly they have to go to a bank or some friend and ask for temporary accommodation, and even then the position is not satisfactory, because there appears to be an indefinite delay in the making of these payments. It would be more satisfactory to all concerned if the payments could be made promptly and regularly.
There also are complaints about the methods of valuation. It is said that there is an inclination to undervalue the houses. It will be agreed that if the erection of a house at a certain figure is approved of before the work is commenced the question of value should not be disputed when the house has been completed. The people who, in my opinion, have the worst housing accommodation in the country are the farmers. In many cases they are living in old houses, perhaps on large farms. They have their liabilities to meet and, apart from the Small Dwellings Act, there is no way by which a farmer's son can avail of a loan for the purpose of erecting a house. Now, even if a farmer's son desires to apply for a loan under the Act he cannot get it unless he is able to prove that his income has reached a certain level. There is also the point that the land belonging to his father, on which the house is to be erected, has to be transferred to the son. The farmers have to pay for the provision of amenities for other people and for the erection of council houses, but they are not eligible to live in them and neither are their sons eligible to apply for accommodation in these houses.
I think some scheme should be adopted whereby councils will be permitted to erect houses for farmers' sons. At the present time, if the area of land exceeds an acre, the local authority will not agree to erect a house on that site. That is one difficulty that presents itself to the farmer who asks the local authority to erect a house for his son. That matter should be properly examined. Apart from the duty of providing houses for the working classes, we have also a duty to provide houses for the farming community. It is our duty to assist them in every way in their efforts to obtain houses or erect them on their own initiative.
I have been in communication with the Department of Local Government and the Land Commission asking for certain lanes to be taken over and maintained by the local authority. There are many long lanes which were constructed years ago, in some cases by the Land Commission, and when those lanes were provided no steps were taken to maintain them. They have fallen into disrepair and the people using them now cannot find any authority that will take over responsibility for maintenance. These people are unable to finance the work of repairing the lanes and they cannot provide the necessary materials. Local authorities are very slow to take over this responsibility. I have in mind one lane over a mile long, adjoining two roads and serving five or six farms. I cannot induce the county council to take over the responsibility of repairing that lane. I know that a lane as long as this one can never be repaired by the farmers who are using it because they are unable to bear the cost.
I would like the Minister to adopt a definite policy in this connection and ask local authorities to take responsibility for certain lanes which accommodate farmers, particularly in the transportation of produce from inland farms. All the land is not along the roadside and there are plenty of lanes of the type I have in mind leading deep into the heart of the countryside. It must be remembered that the farmers who use these lanes contribute substantially in their rates towards the maintenance of roads they seldom use. The very lanes they need to have put in a proper condition are the places on which they cannot induce the local authorities to effect necessary repairs.
I would like to extend a hearty welcome to the new Minister. He has taken on a big job, but his wide experience of local authorities will, I feel sure, enable him to carry out his onerous task efficiently.
