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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Jul 1950

Vol. 122 No. 8

Committee on Finance. - Vote 58—External Affairs (Resumed).

The second of the three factors which I mentioned is the development within the last two years of the E.R.P. I wonder whether Deputies are aware of the magnitude and scale of the operations which the working of the E.R.P. involves. If anyone thinks that participation in the programme is simply a question of indicating the extent of your needs and receiving the dollars necessary to cover them, he is very much mistaken. On the contrary, the operation of the plan is based on an elaborate and highly technical administrative machinery, which includes, among other things, the preparation of advance programmes by the participating countries, the clearance of those programmes with the O.E.E.C. in Paris, the examination of import applications to ensure that they come within the scope of the programme, the issue of authorisations in respect of approved imports, and a detailed auditing procedure necessary to secure the reimbursement in dollars of the cost of consignments from the E.C.A. in Washington. The magnitude of the work involved in all this may be gathered from the fact that, up to date, our allocations under the E.R.P. have totalled over $131,000,000, of which we have received in dollar reimbursements from the E.C.A. in Washington, after completion of all the programming, authorisation and auditing procedures required, over $88,000,000.

This has involved additional staff. Deputies may say, of course, that this necessary staff has been provided on an unduly lavish scale. I think I have as sharp an eye for public economy as anyone in the House, and I say that this is not the case. So far as headquarters is concerned, I think it would be difficult to find in the Civil Service more hard-working and zealous staff than have been handling E.R.P. matters in my Department and I know that, with their utmost efforts, they are constantly hard put to it to complete important work with the necessary degree of promptitude. I have had the unusual experience of hearing not only officials of the O.E.E.C., but even representatives of other countries taking part in that organisation, making comment on the inadequacy of our staff provision in Paris. The staff in Washington was increased as much at the instance of the Minister for Finance as on my initiative because it was found in his Department that the necessary reimbursement procedures could not be carried through without serious difficulties and delays in the absence of staff in Washington to handle them at that end.

The third factor which has contributed to the increased expenditure on this Vote is the new provision made throughout the Vote, and particularly under the heading "Miscellaneous", for the improvement of our information services abroad. This work, I agree, is a matter of policy, and I propose to deal with it in some detail later. All I need say just now, in order to complete the picture I have given, is that the proportion of the increase on the Vote since 1948 which is attributable to this cause is roughly £69,000. That covers the Grant-in-Aid of the Irish News Agency, the provision of £10,000 for information material under subhead C (3) of the Vote, the salaries and allowances of public relations officers in Washington, New York and London, and the staff of the information division at the headquarters of the Department in Dublin.

The three factors which I have dealt with—the devaluation of the £, increased official activity in connection with E.R.P. and the development of our information services abroad—account between them for £150,000, or nearly 85 per cent. of the net amount of £177,000 by which the expenditure on this Vote has increased since 1948.

The rest of the increase is due to a number of minor and more or less routine factors. The improvement of Civil Service remuneration which took place in 1948 accounts for £7,500; the new Legation in the Netherlands, to which we were already morally committed in 1948, for approximately £5,000; and the provision made for the appointment of Vice-Consuls at Boston, Chicago and San Francisco for approximately £4,500. The balance is made up of routine salary increments, increases in the pay of locally-recruited staff abroad to meet higher living costs and other similar factors.

An efficient information service has been provided to keep missions abroad fully informed of up-to-date developments at home and, by so doing, to enable them to represent the country more effectively. In these and other ways, the efficiency of our representation abroad has been greatly increased and I am fully convinced that the expenditure incurred in doing this was not only fully justified but long overdue.

The salaries and foreign allowances of our representatives abroad are lower than those of almost any other country. Almost no other country spends so small a percentage of either its national income or its annual Budget on external affairs. In order to put the matter in proper perspective, let me take a few concrete comparisons. The total amount of this Vote is less than what the British Foreign Office spent last year on the provision and maintenance of official motor cars for its officials. The staffs of some diplomatic missions of foreign countries are larger than all our staffs, at home or abroad, put together. For example, there are more people on the staff of the British High Commissioner in Pakistan than there are on the staff of the Department of External Affairs here in Dublin. Comparisons of this kind could be multiplied indefinitely but, to my mind, whatever comparisons are made will all bring you to the same conclusion—that, both in the number of their personnel and the financial provision made for them, our missions abroad are organised and financed on extremely conservative and economic lines.

Turning now from the financial aspects of the Vote to the work of the past 12 months it can be truly said, I think, that the past financial year was a particularly active and eventful one in the sphere of our external relations.

At the beginning of the year, the Republic of Ireland Act entered into force, and, for the first time, the Republic of Ireland was specifically recognised as such by the States of the world. Then we had the passage by the British Government last May of the Ireland Act in which fresh legislative sanction was sought to be given to Britain's occupation of our six north-eastern counties. In the domain of general foreign policy, we found it necessary to define our attitude towards the North Atlantic Pact in official Notes, the texts of which were recently presented to the Dáil in a White Paper. On the other hand, we accepted an invitation to participate in drafting the Statute of the Council of Europe and, in due course, became a member of that organisation. Our four representatives attended the Consultative Assembly at Strasbourg in September and, apart from their effective advocacy of our claim to the unity of our national territory, they played a conspicuously active and useful part in the deliberations of the Assembly. We also continued during the year to play an active role in the work of the O.E.E.C., and I think our election to the Executive Committee of that organisation at the end of the year may be regarded in some part as a recognition of the value of our efforts.

Apart from this activity in the policy field, a good deal has been accomplished during the year in other directions. As regards our trade relations, not only were existing agreements renewed and extended, but a trade arrangement was made with Germany for the first time since the war and a comprehensive Treaty of Friendship, Commerce and Navigation concluded with the United States. with which country we have also concluded, within the last few months, a Consular Convention.

As regards cultural relations, the new Advisory Committee got into its stride during the year with notable and most successful results. It arranged art exhibitions in the United States and Italy; it arranged for the publication of a series of cultural booklets, the first of which has already been published; it arranged for the making of a film tribute to the poet Yeats, which I hope will be shortly released in this country and will later be exhibited widely abroad; it made a contribution towards the visit to Dublin of the Hamburg State Opera Company; and afforded similar practical encouragement towards a number of other activities of cultural interest, including the organisation of summer schools by the universities, the visit of an Irish lecturer to Holland, Sweden and Denmark, the continued publication of certain foreign cultural reviews of interest to this country, and so on. During the year, too, a new information division was set up in the Department and a serious beginning was, for the first time, made to tackle a task which, indeed, more than any other has absorbed the energies of the Department and the missions abroad during the year—the task of bringing before the bar of the public opinion of the world this nation's just and indefeasible claim to the unity of our national territory.

In introducing this Vote, therefore it may be better if, instead of attempting to give the Dáil a detailed account of all the various activities of the Department, I confine myself to dealing with the aspects of its work which are of special interest, either because of their importance in the framework of the national policy or because of their novelty.

Naturally, our principal concern during the year and the primary object of all the Government's efforts in the sphere of external policy has been to hasten the solution of the problem of Partition. We know that we are not alone in that aim, and, before I go further, I wish, on behalf of the Government, to place on record our appreciation of the support which we have received in this matter from all Parties in the House, as well as our frank recognition of the value of the help given to the anti-Partition drive throughout the world by the All-Party Committee.

Deputies are familiar with the lines along which our efforts to find a solution of the Partition problem have been directed. Basing ourselves on the belief that the Partition of this ancient nation is an intolerable and indefensible injustice which nobody who accepts the principles of democracy and the right of national self-determination can possibly seek to condone, the object of all our endeavours has been to bring the objective facts about Partition to the knowledge of democratic public opinion throughout the world. We retain the confidence that, whatever obstacles we may encounter and whatever attempts may be made to confuse the issue, if we can once succeed in bringing the true facts of the Partition situation home to the moral conscience of the democratic world, it cannot remain indifferent but, on the contrary—if the professions of democratic faith and love of liberty which countries make so freely mean anything at all—the public opinion of the world must assert itself in favour of undoing this flagrant wrong.

In the pursuit of this policy, the Government has found on all sides, both inside and outside the country, great and invaluable aid and encouragement. In the United States, in Britain, in Australia and in many other countries as well, men and women of Irish stock have come forward in their hundreds and thousands prepared to devote their earnest and unselfish efforts to the accomplishment of the task which confronts this small nation. Nothing that we can say or do here would be an adequate recompense for the help and encouragement we have received in this matter from our own people abroad.

Nothing worries me more than the thought that, among those who have helped us so powerfully abroad in this way, there must be many who, because they are unknown to us, have never received as much as a word of thanks for their unselfish work. I am sure that Deputies on all sides of the House will wish to join with me in expressing here our deep sense of obligation and gratitude to all those men and women of Irish stock abroad who have done so much to advance the cause of ending Partition. They have a valid claim on the gratitude of the whole Irish nation.

I am glad to say that the results achieved by their efforts have been most encouraging. I will not detain the House by enumerating here all the evidences we have received from abroad during the past 12 months of support and sympathy in the anti-Partition drive. Among the many manifestations of sympathy we have received, however, there are some which I think I must mention. I am thinking in particular of the resolutions calling for the unity of Ireland and condemning Partition passed by the Houses of many American State legislatures, and particularly by those of Massachusetts, Illinois, California, Rhode Island, Michigan and New York. I include with them the many public declarations of sympathy and support made by individual members, not only of many State legislatures, but of the United States Congress itself. We derived tremendous encouragement also from the resolution pledging its support for the reunification of Ireland passed by the American Federation of Labour at its Convention in October, 1949, and from the similar resolution pledging its support in the anti-Partition fight passed by the Congress of Industrial Organisations at its convention in the following month.

I could add many other examples drawn not only from the United States but from other countries as well; but I think I have said enough to show that the efforts to advance the anti-Partition cause abroad have achieved positive and stimulating results; that it is no longer a movement confined to people of Irish birth or descent; but that, on the contrary, due mainly to the unselfish labours of our own people, there is now a large and influential body of disinterested public opinion outside this country which, having been apprised of the facts of Partition, and having had an opportunity of forming an impartial judgment on these, has pronounced itself clearly and firmly in favour of putting an end to this injustice. I want to take this opportunity to express to all those who have lent us moral support in this way —many of them people with no connection with this country and no reason for viewing Irish problems in other than an impartial and detached way—our grateful recognition of their help.

Needless to say, this progress in the anti-Partition drive has not been achieved without encountering obstacles and difficulties. The opposition and difficulties which have to be surmounted are considerable and many of them still persist. I do not want to go into all this in detail now, but there is one point which I feel bound to mention because considerable use has been, and is still being, made of it to counter our efforts to make the facts of Partition better known throughout the world. I refer to the argument which, no doubt, many Deputies have heard used that, in the present state of the world, a problem such as the Partition of Ireland is a matter of minor importance and that the efforts of the Irish Government to keep this problem before world public opinion at the present time shows a disregard of the danger threatening our civilisation. This is a subtle and an easy line of propaganda for those who desire to maintain the status quo.

There are many points of view which can be put forward in answering that argument. I will only mention one. We undoubtedly stand at a fateful juncture of history and what characterises the present world situation and distinguishes it from any situation which has existed for centuries is that the fundamental conflict which exists is not merely one of national policy or military strategy; it is a conflict between two entirely opposed ideologies embracing two entirely different conceptions of the purpose and the meaning of human life. In the final analysis, the struggle must be fought out, not between armies on the battlefields or navies on the seas, but in the souls of men.

On the one side, you have a dynamic ideology which is opposed to the concepts of human dignity and liberty in which we in Ireland believe and which has already made great gains. What we, in company with the other democratic countries of the non-Communist world, have to oppose to this is the fundamental beliefs which form part of our tradition and outlook—belief in God and belief in the democratic way of life and belief in fundamental, human and political rights, including the right to national independence and to national self-determination. Our ability to evolve a dynamic based on the principles which are fundamental to free people, capable of matching the dynamic of Communism depends on the extent to which we give objective reality to our own fundamental beliefs. The greatest danger we have to avoid in this connection is the habit which has become so common of professing faith in these beliefs while finding excuses for not living up to them. It is that attitude of expedience and opportunism which, while professing belief in the principles of democracy and freedom, tolerates with equanimity the flagrant and inexcusable violation of those principles which has weakened the spiritual dynamic upon which the free peoples of the world must depend in the final struggle with Communism. It is not we who claim that the injustice of Partition should be ended, who weaken the cause of freedom and democracy in the present world struggle, but those who destroy the moral basis of the common cause by treating so glaring a violation of the principles of democracy and freedom as a matter of no consequence. That is one of the many answers to the argument to which I have referred. I would be failing in my duty as a responsible Minister if in this situation I were to acquiesce in the continuance of a situation which is weakening and dangerous to our nation and to the ideals for which we stand.

I should like to say a few words in connection with the work of our information division. The work of our information services has been of tremendous importance in many fields of our national activity: for the development of friendly relations, of trade, of tourism and for the achievement of our territorial integrity.

In all these spheres it is essential to have the proper organisation to ensure a steady supply of up-to-date and accurate information about this country to the foreign Press and others concerned. I regard it as my primary task and duty to overcome what can really only be described as practically a conspiracy of silence, in regard to Irish affairs. That consideration is, to my mind, a more than adequate justification for what we are proposing in this Vote to spend on our information services.

I need not deal with the Grant-in-Aid for the Irish News Agency. The agency has recently been the subject of very full debates in this House. I feel that I should perhaps tell the House something about the information services which are covered by the global expenditure to which I have referred.

In the first place, we have now engaged whole-time on information work both here, in Dublin, and in New York and Washington, a special staff. Provision is made in the Vote for the appointment of similar staff in London.

With the help of this staff a good deal of progress has been made towards remedying the lack of information about this country which has hitherto obtained abroad. We began in November, 1948, the publication and distribution of a weekly bulletin on Irish affairs which has now quite an appreciable circulation. It goes to Press and foreign correspondents, public leaders, diplomatic missions and other important organisations in other countries. Supplies of it are sent to our missions abroad and distributed by them to persons likely to be interested. Our missions at Washington and at Canberra issue local bulletins of their own, based in large measure on the information contained in weekly bulletins sent to them regularly by the Department. The material carried in these bulletins includes, as well as feature articles on various aspects of our national life, such as the rural electrification scheme, our national education scheme, the work of Muintir na Tíre and so on, up-to-date information bearing on the problem of Partition. It is, if anything, an understatement to say that the bulletins seem to be widely appreciated. Every week we receive many letters about them and almost without exception they are flattering and encouraging.

A more important index of the value of the bulletins is the use made of the material contained in them by the foreign Press. We keep a very close check on that and I am glad to say that the results in that regard have been most impressive. The amount of space devoted to material from the bulletins not only in the North American Press but in South America, Australia, New Zealand, Belgium, Italy and Britain is proof of both its usefulness and of the lacuna which it fills.

In addition, the information division here in Dublin co-operates with the All-Party Research Conference on Partition. A considerable amount of other material also bearing on the Partition problem has been prepared by the information division and circularised abroad through our missions and private organisations interested in the problem.

What we must bear in mind in considering our information services is the amount of leeway which we have to make up and the extent of the efforts made to disseminate abroad information prejudicial to our aims and interests. I wonder do Deputies realise the extent of the propaganda in favour of the maintenance of Partition done by the Six-County Administration. It publishes a monthly entitled Ulster Commentary which is widely distributed abroad and a publication entitled Ulster Speaks—both expensive illustrated productions. In addition the Ulster Unionist Council puts out a steady flow of propaganda material which is particularly copious at election times. They issue a monthly entitled Ulster is British as well as a monthly called The Voice of Ulster. It also distributes a great deal of semi-official propaganda in the form of signed booklets and inspired articles and even books. I do not know the extent of the expenditure which all this represents, but I have a shrewd notion that it comes to considerably more than the provision for information services which I am asking the Dáil to approve in this Vote.

But this is only the beginning of the story. Partition is maintained not merely from Belfast but from London, and nowhere is that fact clearer than in the field of publicity. The Partitionists can rely on the British Central Office of Information with its annual budget of £5,000,000 and its vast technical resources. It is sometimes contended that these resources are not used to defend Partition, but that contention is untrue. I have here a magnificent and expensive production entitled Springboard for Britain which, as its title implies, is intended to justify Britain's springboard or bridgehead in Ireland. That publication is disseminated by the British Central Office of Information. When you add to this the vast resources of the British Foreign Office, with its network of public relations staffs in 45 or 46 different countries, you begin to get a true idea of the inadequacy of our expenditure on information services in relation to the task which has to be accomplished.

I could enlarge further on this aspect of the matter, if time permitted. The only point I want to make, however, is that in this task of winning sympathy and understanding abroad for our claim to the unity of our national territory, we are up against a publicity machine which may fairly be described as formidable.

The lesson of all this is that, in this field, we must make the most effective use we possibly can of our limited resources. I think we are doing that. I think that, taking everything into consideration, including our relative lack of experience in this field, we have not been wasting time or money. But we must be prepared to face the expenditure of the money involved. What I am asking for now is what I believe to be the minimum which we need. As the value of these services prove themselves and as the anti-Partition campaign extends in scope, we may well find it necessary to make an even greater financial effort to counter the increasing barrage of propaganda which will be directed against us.

All this modern concentration on overseas publicity emphasises a feature of international relations nowadays which we must all bear in mind. There may have been a time in the past when foreign policy was determined in fashionable drawing-rooms and at diplomatic dinner parties. What mattered in those days was the flow of opinion in a narrowly restricted upper class. But nowadays we live in a democratic age. The factor which at present governs international relations and determines foreign policies is public opinion and by public opinion I mean all that complicated inter-play of forces—the Press, the radio, the speeches of public men, the statements of important organisations and so on —which at the same time, shapes the point of view of the ordinary man in the street and serves to make it articulate. Any scheme of foreign representation which leaves this important fact out of account and restricts itself to sending ambassadors and Ministers to exchange views in high official circles and Government offices, is simply out of date. It ignores the concrete factors upon which international understanding depends in modern conditions. That is why practically every democratic country nowadays has built up, alongside its official diplomatic and consular services, largescale overseas information programmes, utilising newspapers, magazines, information offices, high frequency broadcasting, films, pamphlets and cultural contacts—all with a view to winning sympathy and understanding abroad on the democratic level on which foreign policies are determined at the present day.

From another, and possibly more important, aspect the development of cultural relations is probably one of the most fundamental methods of minimising national antagonisms and, therefore, of achieving peace. The more it is possible to ensure that nations have a friendly and understanding appreciation of the customs and mode of living of other nations, the less likely are they to be antagonistic to each other.

I will not go over the work of the Committee on Cultural Relations in detail because it is set out very adequately in the report which they have just issued; but I do want to take this opportunity of paying a tribute of gratitude and appreciation to the members of this voluntary committee. I think it would be difficult to find any other similar body which has thrown itself so wholeheartedly and enthusiastically into its work. The initiatives they have undertaken have been conspicuously successful, and everything they have done to make our national culture better known abroad has achieved its main object of stimulating interest where it did not exist before and creating an eager desire to know more about the country. In devoting their time, knowledge and experience so unselfishly to this work, the members of the committee have performed an important public service and I am glad to have this opportunity of expressing to them the grateful appreciation of the Government.

The work of this committee is not, of course, a mere exercise in national self-satisfaction. We are all proud of our national cultural achievements and glad to think that they are being made better known and appreciated abroad, but that is not the whole story. The work of the Advisory Committee on Cultural Relations is of the utmost value in several different practical fields. It is of direct benefit to our tourist industry. By drawing attention in different ways to the principal products of this country, it helps to expand our trade. It helps to create new outlets abroad for our writers, our artists, our actors and other cultural workers. Above all, it is one of our most important means for creating that background of knowledge about this country abroad which is so important to a sympathetic understanding of our national aims and policies.

A review of our general relations with other nations would not be complete without a reference to the recent visit to Rome and Paris of the President and Mrs. Ó Ceallaigh. In many ways, it was an historic event and the reports in the foreign Press show clearly that its significance was not lost on people abroad. Probably many of us here at home could not help thinking, when we read the reports of the magnificent receptions accorded to our President abroad, particularly by the Holy Father and the President of France, how much it would have meant to past generations if they could have lived to see the head of this State accorded abroad the honours due to the President of an independent Republic. I know that everywhere they went, the President and Mrs. Ó Ceallaigh created a deep impression and were accorded enthusiastic welcomes, and indeed, ovations, which constituted a striking manifestation of the goodwill towards Ireland which exists in the countries they visited.

Another event in the sphere of our diplomatic relations which took place during the course of the year and which gave us all special pleasure was the appointment of the new Nuncio Apostolic, Monsignore Felici. I think we may justifiably regard the appointment of so distinguished and experienced a prelate to represent the Holy See in Ireland as a special privilege and a special mark of the Holy Father's Paternal regard for this country. Certainly no more worthy successor could have been found for the late Monsignore Paschal Robinson, whose memory is so deeply revered in this country. In the short time he has been here, Monsignore Felici has won the esteem and regard of everyone who has come in contact with him, and I am sure that Deputies generally will join with me in hoping that his mission here in Ireland will be a long and successful one.

So far as this Vote is concerned, there has been no increase in our representation abroad. I intend, however, to introduce later in the year a Supplementary Estimate providing for the establishment of a mission in Western Germany, a country with which we had important commercial relations before the war and with which our trade exchanges have now begun to develop very satisfactorily once again.

Owing to shortness of time, I cannot deal in any detail with the other changes that have occurred in our diplomatic relations in the course of the last year but the House will remember with appreciation that we have, for the first time, received during the course of the year an Ambassador from India and an Ambassador from the United States. The new Canadian Ambassador has just arrived from Canada to take up duty in the country, although he has not yet presented his letters of credence.

I do not propose, either, to deal with the question of foreign trade. There have been many satisfactory achievements in this field. Our foreign trade, especially our export of industrial goods to European countries, has increased appreciably in the course of the last year or two. This is an important development and I hope that it will be possible to continue to promote our export of industrial goods to European countries generally.

Before concluding this rather disjointed and brief opening statement, which covers a very wide field of activities in the Department, I should like to pay very special tribute to the members of the staff of the Department of External Affairs. Tremendous burdens have been placed upon them during the course of the year. Very often it meant that they had to forgo their holidays, that they had to work late at night and to work at week-ends. They have always been prepared to fulfil these duties unselfishly and have been of tremendous assistance. They deserve the thanks of this House.

There is a separate Vote in relation to European co-operation. I do not know whether the House would like to discuss the two matters together.

Mr. de Valera

It would be just as well to take them separately.

Very well.

Mr. de Valera

I move that the Estimate be referred back for reconsideration.

At the outset I should associate myself, on behalf of the Opposition, with the well merited tributes which the Minister for External Affairs has paid, first of all, to our President for the work which he did by his visit to Rome —to Italy and to France—and also to our friends abroad in the United States who have, as they did upon former occasions, rallied behind us in the presentation of the case of justice which we are endeavouring at the present time to bring to the notice of people in the United States and other countries in regard to the partition of our country.

The Minister welcomed, as we do, the arrival of the new Papal Nuncio. We were all very happy that the Holy Father has made such a choice. We hope that the Papal Nuncio's stay here will be very happy and fruitful. It is only right, too, that I should repeat the Minister's tributes to the staff of the Department of External Affairs. When I was in office, I heard tributes to their efficiency and to their courtesy from very many of our people and I am glad to say that, in Opposition, I have heard the same tributes paid to them. We are very fortunate in this State in having a very able, efficient and patriotic Civil Service. I hope that the State will long be served by such a body.

The Minister is seeking from the House a Vote for the supply of the sum of £359,000. When you compare that sum by looking at the long sheet that is presented in the Book of Estimates with sums for previous years, you note that for the year 1947-48, which was the last year of Fianna Fail administration, the sum set down for the audited expenditure in that Department was just less than £154,000. The sum that is being sought by the Minister, therefore, is, roughly, two and one-third times that amount. I would probably not be criticising severely that sum of money at all were it not for the fact that this Estimate is brought forth by a representative of the Government whose members accused us of extravagance, of extravagance in the administration of the public service which could not be defended. The Minister for Finance, in his first statement on finance, following his accession to office, mentioned the Department of External Affairs as one of those upon which he intended to use his axe, one of those on which the expenditure was not justified. It is a sufficient commentary upon that, I think, to find that his colleague, within two years, has to introduce an Estimate which is two and one-third times the amount of the audited expenditure for the last year of Fianna Fáil administration.

I am sure the Minister for Finance had particular pleasure in singling out that Department, because I happened at the time to be the head of the Department, the chief of the "extravagant bunch", as we were called, who would have to be put out of office if the country was not to be impoverished.

The Minister does not compare his £359,000 with £154,000, which was the audited expenditure; he compared it, instead, with the sum of £173,000, or some figure of that order of magnitude, which was the Estimate in the Book of Estimates which was prepared by us but which we did not introduce. It was precisely that figure for which the Minister for Finance was particularly careful not to take any responsibility. It was a figure that arose out of the extravagant attitude of Fianna Fáil. He was not going to take any responsibility for it.

Let us even take that figure. The present figure is at least twice that amount. Let us consider the successive steps by which the present figure has been reached. First of all, in the first year of the new Government, there was an increase of £25,000; in the next year, £100,000 additional increase, and now £80,000 additional. The point is, were we extravagant? If we were extravagant, then surely a sum that is two and one-third times the amount is very much more extravagant. If this is a reasonable sum to put forward, then the necessary conclusion is that it was at least far more reasonable in our time to look for a sum that was only a fraction of the sum required now. The Government cannot have it both ways. My view is that the sum we asked for in the circumstances was not extravagant.

There will be a difference of opinion among different members of the House as to whether the sum required at the present time is or is not extravagant. As the Minister properly said, some of these items are based on questions of policy which the Government will have to defend on their merits, and there are questions of increases which cannot be avoided. My own view, as I have often said, is that if we are to have a foreign service at all and if it is to be effective it must get the sum of money that is necessary to make it effective. That does not, however, relieve the Minister in charge or any member of this House of the responsibility of seeing that every penny that is voted is spent to the best advantage and that no money will be voted except money which will, in the opinion of the people who are voting for it, produce results that are commensurate with the sum that is to be spent. There is not one person in this House who could not, if he were in the Department over which the Minister presides, think of very many ways of spending money which would bring in some advantage. If you scatter seed broadcast, even though it may only be on rocky ground, you will find some crevices in which the seed will grow and you will always be able to point out that from the expenditure of money, if it is lavish enough, certain useful and profitable results will arise. But we cannot sow the seed broadcast like that, hoping that, here and there, in some odd places, we will get profitable results. We have in this Department, as in every other Department of State, to attempt to cut our cloth according to our measure. We have to ask ourselves what our resources are. We have to ask ourselves what we can aim at successfully accomplishing. That ought to be the guide in every question where expense is involved and where aims are in view. Probably, with that standard, there are no two members in this House who would produce quite the same Budget.

One of the values of a Cabinet system of Government is that the ideas of one individual who is looking for money for his Department have to be related to the ideas of other members who also want money. There is, or there ought to be, a definite upper limit to the amount that is available at any particular time and the Minister can only get a share. I think the Minister here can congratulate himself that he is getting more than his share according to the figures in the Estimates. If you look at the long sheet I have already referred to and compare the total sums that have been voted for the Public Supply Services you will note that the Minister has got well beyond what would be a proportionate increase. I am not finding fault with that. I think that we were, in our time, particularly careful about expenditure in the Department of External Affairs, some might say over-careful. As I have said already, the number of things which could be engaged in with some profit to the country were so many that you could spend not merely this sum of money but very many times this sum of money and get some profit from it. We had to ask ourselves at each particular stage whether the money that was being spent was likely to produce commensurate profit or adequate profit or adequate results.

The Minister, very rightly, has set out in his statement to explain how the increase has been brought about. The first large item in the increase was that which followed necessarily from devaluation. That undoubtedly has added considerably to the expense of our foreign service as measured in pounds. He has also indicated that there has been a natural increase and also a special increase in regard to the remuneration of our civil servants. I think most of that, however, had taken place in the previous year, except the ordinary natural incremental additions. I should like to point out also that in the year 1947-48, to which I made reference, a great deal of additional money for salaries of civil servants had also to be provided. But these are additions that are inevitable. There is no use in our complaining about them if we want to have our services abroad.

The information services to which the Minister referred have been given a further addition of, I think, £69,000. On that, I am in no position to judge. I do not think anybody on this side of the House—I do not know how many are on the other side of the House—is in the position to judge how wisely or unwisely that money is being spent. There is one portion of it, however, which I think is not likely to be wisely spent. We opposed from the start what is called the news agency. Mind, I distinguish very carefully between the news agency and the bulletin service. The bulletin service was a service which I could quite well understand. It was being sent to selected groups for a very special purpose. You felt that if they did not throw it into the waste paper basket it was going to be of value having reached them. You had to hope that that bulletin which was being sent would be of sufficient interest to induce those who received it to read it. You could not make certain of that but there was a reasonable prospect of such a proportion who received it reading it as to think it would be of value.

With regard to the news agency, unless I am completely mistaken as to its scope and purpose, I think it is bound to lead to a waste of money. If it is a news agency, it will have to compete with agencies with millions of pounds' capital, and I do not think it could possibly do that. If it is not a news agency, but a bulletin service, I think the Minister and the Government would have been far better advised to bring it in as such. The very name of news agency suggests that it is a business concern which will be engaged in the collection of news and the selling of that news in competition with other news services. I do not think it can succeed with the capital it has; I do not think it can succeed more or less as a side-line of the Department of External Affairs. If it is to be seriously entered into, it will have to be done on a much larger scale and on quite a different basis.

I am distinguishing now very carefully between the bulletin—you can call it news or anything else you like— and the other service. It is admittedly a departmental service, coming from the State, to inform selected groups and individuals—maybe these would be editors of newspapers and so on—of matters which they thought might possibly be misrepresented through the ordinary news channels, or which possibly would not come to their notice at all otherwise. But providing the day to day news, as suggested by the title news agency, is bound to be a waste of public money and I do not think we can afford that. If I were convinced that there was a good national service being provided by such an agency, I would he altogether in favour of it.

I know the need that it is intended to meet. There is no doubt this country has been for generations the subject of misrepresentation in a powerful Press, through powerful agencies that had a deliberate purpose behind the misrepresentation. To hold this country against our people's will needed as an excuse misrepresentation of our people and of their aims and of their character. When that was done it was done brutally and ruthlessly and I for one would be very happy indeed if I thought that could be countered by any such method as the Minister thinks can be done by means of this news agency. But I think it is altogether ineffective for that purpose. I think it will not be used sufficiently. He seems to suggest that already he is satisfied with it or was it the bulletin?

The bulletin.

Mr. de Valera

The Minister says that, in his opinion, through information he has received, the bulletin has already borne fruit. I am glad to hear that. It confirms the view I had that that would be a service that would bear fruit, a service that was really needed. Talking about the portion of this money that is to be devoted to the news agency, I have not yet had anything presented to me that would convince me that that is a wise expenditure of public money. I do not think there is on the purely financial side anything else I need call attention to.

The Minister, in another section of his statement, speaks of the question which is naturally the question in our external affairs that occupies most of our thoughts, and that is the question of Partition. I speak of it as in our external affairs because it is a matter, in the first instance, between this State and Britain. The fact that we have a minority whose views were utilised by Britain to appear to justify what Britain has done does not, in my opinion, take away from the fact at all that Britain is fundamentally responsible for the partitioning of our country. In every country there are minorities and in most democratic countries you have minorities that may be religious and that may be racial for the time being. You have minorities of all these descriptions. Does that mean that every State where there is a minority has to be cut up? In our case, my view is that there is no distinct racial minority here, in any part of this country, that we are in all parts a mixed people. We might have a little bit more of one mixture in one part of the country compared with another, but I do not think that our minority is a racial minority in any true sense. Anybody who has examined the matter to its roots can satisfy himself that that is so. Fundamentally, it is not a religious minority either. We have had in this country some of the greatest patriots, men who struggled to achieve the independence of this nation, who were Protestants. You have had Protestants, whether Presbyterians or Church of Ireland or Episcopalians, in our country who were patriots. They were even leaders of our independence movement in the past. How, then, can it be suggested that the opposition to national independence is based on religion? The objecting minority is a political minority, and everybody knows it.

The difference between the minority and the majority in this country is that the minority wish a certain external policy; they wish to be linked up with another State, to become part of that other State, whereas the majority seek independence. That is the fundamental difference that exists. It is an ordinary political difference of opinion which in any democratic State would be resolved in the ordinary way, by a majority vote. Britain used that minority as other States will use minorities, in order to procure their own domination over the lives of another people. Therefore, it is in my opinion true that the partitioning of our country is due to Britain. Britain, of course, will put up that shield of the different views held by the minority to defend herself against the accusation which I have levelled and which others who believe as I believe level against her. The same pretence can be used to support the division of any country. You will find these minorities very often concentrated locally into majorities. What happens in our case is that this minority happens to be a majority in a certain area. That could also be paralleled in other countries, but it is not used as an excuse for the partitioning of these countries. The continuance of Partition we rightly regard therefore as an outrage upon our nation. The excuse of the existence of a minority is proved to be a pretence by the fact that in the area cut off you have local minorities compelled to accept majority rule of the whole. In Tyrone, Fermanagh, South Down, Derry City, South Armagh, and so on, all the people in all those areas are expected to obey the rule of the Belfast Parliament on the basis that they have a majority in the whole of the area although those are local majorities. If there were any justification for that in that case, surely there is far better justification for expecting that the minority in the whole of Ireland would accept the rule of the majority in that area.

Partition is with us the burning question. As long as that division of our country remains, the first thing that must be in the minds of every Irishman in times of crisis or in times of no crisis, is the undoing of that wrong. In time of crisis and in time of non-crisis, it will dominate every political issue in this country.

I take it that that was what the Minister was pointing out. Now I am pointing to something which the Minister proposed to say—he was good enough to supply me with a copy of it but evidently, owing to the shortness of time, he did not use it. I am not sure whether he dealt with the point to which I am about to refer. This being the issue which will dominate every other issue, public opinion will naturally, in a time of crisis, revert to that particular point. If there should be other considerations, no matter how important those considerations would appear to other peoples to be, this would be the prime consideration as far as we are concerned.

We have supported the Government in the policy which it has indicated with regard to the Atlantic Pact and its attitude in case of another war. The Government has clearly indicated and stressed that the policy of neutrality is an inevitable policy so long as the division of our country remains. Any other policy would divide our people and if there are those who think that there are tremendous issues at stake in the world at the present time, which would completely over-shadow this petty question, as they call it, of the partition of our country, then it seems to me that it is they who particularly ought to give consideration to this question of Partition and get it out of the way. As far as we are concerned, it is not a petty question.

It is sometimes suggested that we will constitute a dangerous gap in western defence. If defence is really what is in mind, that gap need not exist. That is a gap which can readily be filled, I believe, in accordance with the wishes of the majority, if not all, on the opposite side and in accordance with the wishes of all, I think, on this side. If we get the necessary equipment—I am not stating national policy, because that is a matter for the Government: I am interpreting what the Government has already stated to be its policy—there will be, as far as we are concerned, no gap here.

Now, as in the past, we will guarantee that as far as our equipment and our man-power enables us, we will defend this part of the front, if you like to call it that, more effectively than any other man-power could do, since we would be defending here our own hearths and our own homes. We will do it with due regard to the home point of view and with an understanding of the needs of our people and their wishes and desires. We will not be, as might very well happen, under other circumstances, unwelcome people trying to defend this area. We will be here, then, the most effective body that can be found in the world, taking man-power into account, the most effective man-power that can be got, as we will be defending our own immediate rights.

We will be acting in the same spirit as we acted in the previous war, in the spirit that we do not want our territory and would not permit our territory to be used as a basis of attack on anybody else, particularly our neighbours, and that we were not going to permit, as far as we could prevent it, any other Power to come into this country and if any other Power did come in against our will we would do our utmost to defeat that Power and in doing our utmost to defeat that Power we would naturally work in conjunction with every other people who were trying to defeat that Power. There is no question whatever that, if there are those who are sincerely anxious about the present world situation, who were anxious about the situation before it came to the present crisis, and who are really anxious about the preservation of an intact front, the first thing they would do would be to make the necessary equipment available to our people. We —the previous Government—sought for that. The excuse at one period of the war was that the equipment was not available, and when it came to be available it was more urgently required elsewhere. At a later period, it was not given because the war was evidently being won and there was no need for anxiety. But those who went through that period of anxiety in other countries should remember that such anxiety can occur again.

If I can in any way support what I understand is the attitude of the Government in trying to seek arms from outside so that we might be equipped here to defend ourselves, I shall be only too happy to do it. I think that that is the attitude which is taken up by the Government, and I want to say from the point of view of the Opposition that I at any rate— it has not come up as a definite Party question in any way—will do everything that I can to support their efforts to get that equipment. I believe it is the best thing that could be done in the interests of our country, and, as very often happens when you do things which are just, you get a very profitable return. It will therefore be the best for other countries as well. However that may be, there are some who will say that there are claims superior to ours and they may continue to deny us the arms which are necessary. That will undoubtedly put us in a very difficult position.

I intend on a more appropriate occasion, namely on the Taoiseach's Vote, to speak more fully about that and to urge, as I have already urged, that the Government ought to be active in providing for our defence to the utmost to which it is possible for them to provide for it by the organisation of various services and, particularly, by making sure, so far as we can at this stage make sure, that the food and the other things required by our people which can be produced here will be produced here. I did not intend on this Vote to go into this question of defence to the extent to which I have gone. I have done so because I was dealing with the suggestion that this question of Partition is a petty matter. My answer—and I think the Minister gave an answer somewhat parallel to mine—is: "If you think it is petty, then you should help to put it out of the way. We do not think it is petty. We think the matter is very important for the life of our people and for any success we might have in our defence afterwards. We think it is of tremendous importance and surely it is for you who think it of little importance to try and get rid of it." I do hope that we can get rid of it. I believe that in this particular matter there is no difference between what the Government propose and what we would have proposed. Our proposals go back very far. They had their roots back in 1921 in the proposals made by the Republican Government of that date in which we felt we could, consistent with national ideals, permit a local Parliament to be set up in the area where there was a local majority and that we could give to that Parliament powers comparable to the powers which they have at present, provided the sovereign powers over the area which are at present held by Britain— which is another proof that Britain is directly responsible for Partition, because she holds those powers over that area—were transferred to an allIreland Parliament.

I think the majority in this country have been at all stages fair in their attitude towards the minority. There has been no idea at any stage that they were to be crushed or compelled to do things which it was unreasonable to expect them to do. Our attitude towards them has always been inspired with the spirit of justice and brotherhood. Some people would go beyond justice and become generous to an extent which I would regard, possibly, as a fault. They are entitled to expect justice, but, when you go beyond that, you are generous at the expense of some other people. If you do that, you have to be very careful as to whether what you are doing will be lasting. If it is done on the basis of justice it will be lasting. We have appealed to our fellow-countrymen in that part of Ireland to join with us in building up a common country which we can all be proud of. We want them to come into it in the spirit of Tone. We want to blot out the memory of past dissensions. We want unity on the basis of the common name of Irishmen.

The Minister says that his information service is bringing the facts of Partition before the people of the world in the hope of bringing them to bear on the consciences of people who are fair-minded. I hope he is succeeding in that. It was our immediate aim once we had settled with Britain in 1938. If anyone goes to the trouble of looking up the declarations which I made as head of the Government when I was entering into negotiations in 1938, they will see that the primary purpose we put before us was the ending of Partition. I made it quite clear that any other settlements that might be arrived at did not affect the fundamental issue, that they could only be regarded as partial, as payment on account, so to speak, and that until the unity of our country was secured there would necessarily be in this country always a feeling of hostility towards the State that brought about this division.

Once the settlement was reached, the next step we had projected was to do the sort of work which is being done at present. The same type of work would have been done by us, I can say quite honestly. It might not have been done in quite the same way, but the same kind of work would have been done by us to try to bring the facts of Partition particularly to our friends in America, Australia and New Zealand and to our friends in Britain, and also to bring the facts of Partition, so far as we could, to the attention of the minority in the Six Counties.

I do not know how far that by itself will be sufficient to bring about the result we hope for, but it is the natural way for any Government which wants to try to do this work and to do it in the only way in which it can be done effectively in the long run, and that is, peacefully. It is the only way in which they should proceed. I take it from the Minister's statement that the efforts which have been made will be intensified until it is felt that the facts of Partition, the injustice that is being done to our country by it and the damage which it is doing to international relations, particularly our relations with Britain, are being brought to the attention of all the people whom we can reasonably hope to influence.

I do not think that I should detain the House further. I indicated that when the Taoiseach's Vote is being considered I shall take advantage of the opportunity to talk about the question of national defence and also the question of the world situation and its natural bearing upon ourselves in the crisis which it may involve for us. I have asked that the Vote be referred back. I did that in order that I might not be hampered, in the first instance, in what I wanted to say by strict rules of order which would apply if the Estimate was presented without being referred back. I still object to the news agency expenditure. If I had the choice I would have no hesitation in saying I would rather see that money spent in improving and widening the circulation of the bulletin. I shall have to await a further statement to know whether or not I should push the matter to a division on the basis of this news agency. Perhaps there may be aspects of it which will be presented later which will make it easier for me to accept the inclusion in this Estimate of that particular sum. At the moment my feeling is that we ought to be very, very careful of expenditure in that particular field.

The Minister says that he has a very keen eye in watching public expenditure. It is sometimes useful for us to see ourselves as others see us and I do not think, if the Minister is interested in knowing how others see him, that is a view which would be shared by many; I am afraid his reputation is quite the reverse. However, I can only judge on these Estimates as they are presented here. I have no means of judging details with regard to some of the expenses of entertainments and so on. I know there have been a considerable number of changes, for instance, in Ministers accredited to this State. The sum is a very large one as compared with the sum provided in our time but it has to be admitted that we are at the end of a war period and quite a number of new Ministers have been appointed. I do not know whether that is sufficient to account for the amount spent on entertainments or whether it is unduly lavish. I can quite understand that there is room for an increase in the amount, apart altogether from the question of cost, though I am sure catering costs have gone up. Apart from that the number of occasions on which official entertainments would be absolutely necessary has gone very much beyond what it was in our time. I think it is right that that should be pointed out.

There is one further matter to which I think I should make reference. The Minister has said that the day has gone when relations between countries can be conducted as they were formerly conducted; the day has gone, in other words, when one had only to influence perhaps a king, who was more or less an absolute ruler, by having representatives and ambassadors at his court, or influence a special set in drawing-rooms. That naturally suggests a corollary: if that is so and if we have now a number of international councils and bodies, do we really need the same sort of machinery, such as legations and so forth in each of the separate countries in which we have them at the moment? I am merely giving expression now to a thought which naturally occurs to anybody deliberating upon how one can modify one's machinery to meet modern conditions in order to diminish expenditure. If the Council of Europe develops, should it not then be possible to have a single representation, an embassy or a legation at the headquarters of such a council? Ministers are now dealing with each other in a way in which they never dealt with one another in the past. They are directly meeting in council. Would it be possible, therefore, to diminish expenditure by having a pool system, as it were, at the headquarters of the representatives of the various states?

There are obvious objections to that and one could not adopt a suggestion of that sort without the most careful examination. One would have to find out in each State whether one would get the service through the central group that one gets at present from the embassy or legation. Very often centralisation is not good economy. If I were in the Minister's position that is an idea I would certainly examine and consider. I merely put that suggestion forward for consideration; I do not say that it should necessarily be adopted or that it could be adopted. In order to be successful one would want collaboration with all the others involved. Representation abroad is a very heavy burden and the question might arise as to whether or not by the co-operation between the different States expenditure on external affairs could not be diminished. I do not like the Minister's comparisons with what Britain spends. If the Minister wants to make a comparison with what Britain spends on a single embassy he must also make comparison with the total British expenditure. One cannot even do it satisfactorily on that basis because quite obviously an Imperial State would need very heavy representation in certain cases. For that reason comparisons of that kind do not appeal to me. I am not at all satisfied with them. Comparisons with the smaller States would be much more appropriate though I do not say for a moment that these comparisons may not prove the case the Minister wants to make even more satisfactorily from his point of view since external representation must be a very substantial burden on the Exchequer. External representation is, of course, a heavy burden on small States. I was wondering whether, now that these States meet so frequently in these various councils, some pooling arrangement might not be made between these States by means of which expenditure on foreign affairs and foreign presentation might be considerably diminished.

Another matter in relation to economy is the question of appointing honorary consuls. Before the change of Governments that particular matter was exercising my mind. I had thought over it for many years. I saw certain objections to it. It was only when I found out the amount we would have to spend in order to be represented in those countries where I felt representation was necessary in order to get the services that were needed for our people going abroad that the idea of honorary consuls had any favour with me. The Minister quite rightly said that the difficulty is to get suitable people. I agree.

If one has a representative of one's country abroad he must be a man whom one will be able to stand over. He must be a person of character and integrity; he must be a man who stands well in the local community and he must be prepared to give considerable service. As far as the State is concerned, that service will naturally have to be honorary service. A small sum may be given for certain expenses, such as the maintenance of an office or something like that. If the service is to be of any value it must be given voluntarily so far as this State is concerned. Of course those who undertake such a service would naturally regard it as an honour and a matter of prestige. I am sure if they undertook the service they would perform their duties satisfactorily since they would regard it as an honour to represent our country. There are a number of Irish people in South America, in the United States of America, in Europe and in Asia who would be very proud to act as honorary consuls for this country. I think there is need for this consular representation. I am wondering whether the Department, because of all the other activities it has had to undertake, has had time to pursue that matter. I think it should be pursued. I am very sensible of the extra work that is being done by the Department and the need for its expansion because of O.E.E.C. I was aware of that already before I left the Department. I saw at once that to get information, to keep contacts and to play the part that it was necessary for us to play in that organisation, would involve increased staff.

On this question of honorary consuls there has been little progress made. I am wondering whether that is due to the fact that difficulties arose which made progress impossible, or whether it is that the staffs have been so occupied with other things that they had not had the time to give it the attention that is absolutely necessary in order to make progress in that direction. There are cities in the United States—I know they have often been mentioned to me—in which we should either have a direct State consul or an honorary consul. There are other cities too in Europe and in the East, the names of which do not occur to me at the moment, in which certain requests of that sort have been made.

I would urge the Minister to try to meet any further expansions that are necessary in order that our people would get the services which the citizens of other States get from their State services. If our citizens are to get those services, and if our friends are to have the opportunities of availing of such services, it seems to me that the most economical way of expanding them, in many cases at any rate, would be by way of having honorary consuls. I think that I have dealt with all the matters I wish to deal with on the Estimate. I propose, on the Taoiseach's Estimate, to go more fully into the matter of national defence.

The House, I am sure, is somewhat disheartened by the amount of time which the Leader of the Opposition devoted to the statistical aspect of this Estimate. The criticism that was made in reference to the increase in the amount of the Estimate had a certain amount of force and relevancy, but only, I submit, if we were dealing with a sovereign State where we would be in a position to pay attention, as the Leader of the Opposition said, to getting the best value for our money and to every aspect of our expenditure. But that is, I submit, an unreal approach to this problem. If the Leader of the Opposition were to criticise the Estimate in the fashion that I propose, I would be very concerned to follow his lead, but, frankly speaking, as we are concerned, according to the Minister and according to the Leader of the Opposition, with the one burning question of Partition, the real criticism of the Estimate is that not sufficient money has been devoted to a proper presentation of that case. Rather than holding it as a criticism of the Minister that his Estimate is now two and onefifth times more than what it was under the Leader of the Opposition, I think that the criticism to be devoted or levelled against both Fianna Fáil and the present Government is that they are not realistic enough in regard to this question of Partition. They are both playing at being a Government, and having a Minister of External Affairs, a very grandiose title which we do not merit. When we accede to the state of being a sovereign nation, when we control the 32 Counties, and when we can really speak in the name of the Irish people, then, I think, we will be entitled to a Minister of External Affairs. We can then submit it to grave scrutiny as to how much we will spend on it and on our consular and other services. I think that when we do attain to that state we will require a very much diminished vote.

I agree with many of the economies which have been referred to by the Leader of the Opposition, economies in our consular services, entertainment, news agency and other aspects. But in the present situation, before we have acceded to that state, I am sure that many members of the House will agree with me-and that more will agree with me as time goes on-that this Government and any succeeding Government which has Partition, and the ending of Partition, at heart, should devote the utmost of its resources to every aspect that is necessary to end that question. Perhaps I might put that point more forcibly in this way: we cannot view the question of expenditure on the Ministry, or Department of External Affairs at the present time on the same basis as we would view expenditure on other Departments which have to give value for their money. The value that we expect from the Department of External Affairs is to take a leading part in the winning of the independence of this country, and for that our resources should be unlimited, provided they are wisely spent. The Irish nation, I am sure, will endorse any expenditure of money sanctioned by this Government for the support of any movement, peaceful or otherwise, for the ending of Partition.

Both the Leader of the Opposition and the Minister rightly congratulated the President of this country for his services on many occasions abroad on behalf of the Irish State. I have to congratulate and to commend him even more so for a statement he made last week. I think history will record the sentiments to which he gave expression as being well worthy of filling a place with those sentiments which are in line with the whole of Irish patriotic tradition. I feel sure that the people of the country will pay most heed to this statement and that it will do more to bring us nearer to a solution of Partition than any of the very correct, no doubt, and very sincere attempts of the Minister to influence world opinion —to influence this very tricky thing called public opinion in very many parts of the world. I should like to put on the records of this House, and to quote, with my humble approbation, what the President of this country said. I think we should all be proud to have a President who is able to voice the national aspirations of this country in the manner in which our President, Seán T. Ó Ceallaigh, does at the present time and always has done.

Hear, hear! I hope that the Irish Times will publish it this time.

The President, speaking at the unveiling of the O'Donovan Rossa Memorial in Skibbereen said:—

"The giant task handed on to us by Rossa and the faithful minority of true Irishmen who shared his political faith has been almost completely accomplished. There is one big blot on this bright picture, and it is that the freedom we enjoy does not extend to the whole of the 32 Counties of Ireland. Six of our Ulster Counties are still in bondage. While the Six Counties remain unfree, there never can be true peace in Ireland. The gallantry and the sacrifice of the youth of the first quarter of this century brought freedom to the Twenty-Six Counties. It must be the task of the youth and the manhood of this generation to liberate the remaining six."

Hear, hear!

How we are to proceed to the attainment of that liberation is a matter of grave concern to most of us for what is the position? It is very appropriate that we should discuss this matter on the 12th July. What is the position in the north-eastern counties? What is the fundamental relationship there that gives rise to all the haranguing and the mobilising of forces that takes place on this day in the north-eastern counties? To restate it quite simply, we have as the Leader of the Opposition said,—he put it more forcibly—a minority of a minority maintained in office by force of power and nothing other than that. Nothing can disguise that. By a farce and a mockery of the democratic forms, they retain power. They retain that power solely by the aid of a bitter sectarian organisation, which is designed to divide the workers, the wage earners and the small people generally of these north-eastern counties into hostile, religious, sectarian camps and to prevent the common people in that part of the country uniting against their real arch enemies, the present ascendancy gang who are the lords of the linen mills and the shipyards.

The position that exists at present is—and it must not be forgotten—that there is continuous, insidious and carefully fostered policy of discrimination and suppression against the Catholics and nationalists who form the majority in Ulster and who are governed by a minority of a minority. Instead of the Government in that part of our territory, who at times profess cordial relations with the democratic Labour Government of England attempting to suppress or to wipe out that blot on our social and cultural life, instead of attempting to hold back and discountenance the Orange Order—because it is the basis of their power, they cannot do that—they actively encourage and give countenance in every way to every manifestation of intolerance, animosity and hatred displayed by this Orange sectarian crowd from day to day.

Thinking over this matter, it is time, I submit, that this Government which so abuses democracy in the north, which does not know how to carry out its functions, which is maintained by a foreign power, which is alien to our whole life, was given notice to quit. I looked forward in my youth to the accession of Fianna Fáil to power as a means of breaking Partition. Suffice it to say in the simplest possible way without in any way blaming them or saying that their failure was in any way culpable, our hopes of ending Partition that way were disappointed. They failed. When this present Government came into power, my hopes and the hopes of thousands of others were renewed. We were enthused at times with the idea that pressure from certain sections of the Government on the English Government might be productive of good results. From time to time, we were heartened by talks of discussions between Attlee and the Minister for External Affairs or between Morrison and the Tánaiste but nothing, absolutely nothing, tangible came from all this, except the Ireland Bill. When the Labour Government came into power, we all expected that with all the democratic traditions and tendencies that naturally have enriched the Labour movement, we would find a change in the attitude of the British Government to Ireland and that justice would be done to Ireland. Instead, the House knows how the British Labour Government reacted to all the representations made to it, how it fell a victim to the Tory Government in the north-east of Ireland, how it betrayed its democratic traditions. So that—let us face the fact and let us put it on record as far as Labour men are concerned—the present Labour Government is no better than any Tory Government in regard to getting a clearer understanding of the true position of Ireland, the true position in regard to Partition and in regard to the ending of the wrongs for which they are manifestly to blame in so far as they maintain the present order there.

The Minister for External Affairs is responsible as the Minister most concerned in the Government, for dealing with this question. We all expected that his drive and energy would certainly produce some results in regard to this question of Partition but I am slowly coming to the conclusion, I must say, that no mere constitutional approach will bring this question any nearer solution. The Leader of the Opposition is exactly at one with the Minister on this matter. All he could say was—and I do not blame him; I do not blame anybody for saying it; it is the easy way—that things can be done peaceably, that this question can be ended peaceably. That I submit is historically false and it is becoming clear to me as time goes on that it merely means that the present position is to continue indefinitely with the Orange mob in ascendancy in Belfast. It means nothing more than that. This attempt to influence international opinion, to influence even British Labour opinion, seems to me to be productive of very little results. I think that, if not yet, very soon most of us must come to the conclusion that peaceful means have been exhausted. Time presses. The Leader of the Opposition and the Minister referred to the crisis that is coming upon us and in a crisis an imperial power is preoccupied with other problems and has not the slightest time to be bothered with the question of Partition. But we are bothered with it. As Irishmen we certainly are concerned to have the problem solved and solved in our own lifetime, not handed down as a heritage to our children. The President naturally called upon the manhood of this generation to liberate the remaining counties of Ireland and not to leave it to the manhood and youth of the following generation. It is difficult indeed to discuss this matter in all its aspects, particularly as for the most important Estimate of the year time unfortunately has been very seriously curtailed

This is what you think is the most important Estimate.

And the House I submit will think that this is the most important Estimate and the nation——

Some of us do not.

——will think that gaining back our nationhood and freedom and attaining true independence and sovereignty should be the most important, in fact the only, question before a sovereign assembly or an assembly that has the courage to attain to that degree of Statehood. I submit that the time is soon coming when we must stop talking about Partition.

Hear, hear!

We have no reason to disparage ourselves in having spent 20 years educating people about Partition and doing everything we could by the written and spoken word and by means of the tours made by Ministers of State and Leaders of the Opposition, all of them very useful in their way and all of them creating a little bit of understanding of this country among people who are very dense of understanding, but there is a seed of thought in the President's word over which one might think deeply. O'Donovan Rossa was not constitutionalist. He was not one who had any reliance upon parliamentary aims and there is in the President's speech the thought that some action on the part of the manhood and youth of Ireland will speak more loudly and more forcefully to the world than any ordinary propaganda and will compel public opinion to prevail upon the British Government to cease the occupation of the north-eastern counties.

Not that I want to despise, or diminish in any way appreciation of, what has been done either by the Minister and his Party or by the Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues in carrying abroad the case for Ireland. I think that that work should be intensified and that the Minister's Vote should be increased. I think that this House should spontaneously vote a couple of hundred thousand pounds to the Minister to build up a position in which any action that may be taken for the reconquest of the Six North-Eastern Counties will be fully understood by the people of the world and that they will know that we are merely taking what belongs to us and that we have right and justice on our side.

I feel that what I have to say on this Estimate has been considerably reduced by the excellent speech that has just been made by Deputy Connolly. Undoubtedly Partition has loomed very large in the discussions in this House over a period of more than a quarter of a century. If we were to go back on the records we would find, I think, that everything that could be said regarding Partition, the evils of it and the inequities of it, has been said at some time or another by every Minister for External Affairs and if one were to close one's eyes and distort one's hearing somewhat one would not know whether a speech on Partition was being made by Deputy de Valera or by the present Minister for External Affairs. All that has been said for more than a quarter of a century and up to the present we have come no nearer the end of Partition than we were 25 years ago and that is as far as what is known as constitutional action is concerned.

It is, I think, unfortunate that in the discussions in the House in the last few days certain observations regarding Partition were made by Deputies, particularly by Deputies who have had a considerable amount of experience. Partition is a national question and any person who sincerely believes that he has some solution of the problem to offer should not, just because of petty Party politics, be subjected to criticism of a kind which is harmful to the interests of this nation and which gives succour and encouragement to the small gang of Quislings who hold six of our counties apart from us at the moment. No useful purpose has been served by observations which have been made, and I hope they will not be made any more, as to who was responsible in 1921 for the present Partition situation.

1921 or 1925—we can take the two dates. That is the sort of bunkum we have here. Deputy de Valera, the Leader of the Opposition, will agree that the discussions that took place in regard to the Articles of Agreement in 1921——

This arises out of observations made in regard to this matter.

Made yesterday.

Many things were said yesterday which are not relevant to-day. The House was discussing the Vote for the Department of Justice yesterday. This is a different Vote and the debate is not countinuous from yesterday. The Deputy will appreciate that.

I am not suggesting for a moment that it is the same debate.

It will be if the Deputy proceeds to answer remarks made yesterday.

I am dealing with this particular problem of Partition and what I want to say is that no person has a right to say to another: "Because you took a line in 1921, you are responsible for Partition."

Nobody said that to-day.

Nobody has a right to say that.

I am telling the Deputy that nobody said it to-day; therefore, it does not arise for answer.

I want to make that point perfectly clear.

It seems to me that the Deputy wants to have an acrimonious debate——

——by referring to matters that were not referred to in this debate.

You have ruled out any reference to what was said yesterday and I am not referring to what was said yesterday.

I thought the Deputy was.

What I am saying is that no person in any discussion on this matter has a right to say that in the national interest.

It was said yesterday but in reference to 1922.

I have said that no person has a right to say that and no person has the right to say, with regard to 1925, that a person who happened to be serving in the Army of this State in that year was helping to fasten Partition on this country. No person serving in the Army of the State to-day has any right to influence political considerations or political decisions. No person who served in the Army of the State ten years ago had the right to influence or decide political decisions and no person who served in the Army in 1925 had a right to influence or decide political matters. I think these are matters which ought to be made perfectly clear and which should be understood. So far as this problem is concerned, we would be much better off trying to find a solution than hurling abuse at one another.

The Deputy might deal with the Estimate before the House. I heard no abuse being hurled at anyone to-day.

That is the point I wish to make in opening my contribution, because it is very important that there should be a unity of endeavour and any person who endeavours to upset that unity is not acting in the best interests of the country. I appreciate that exceptionally good work has been done in the matter of drawing attention to the evils of Partition in Strasbourg and elsewhere throughout the world; but if we were to attend international conferences for the next 100 years, if the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, the Minister for External Affairs, the Leader of the Opposition or any other Minister or Deputy were to spend the rest of his life, and if Ministers in the future were to spend all their time going to international conferences and appealing to the moral consciousness of the democratic world, they would get nowhere.

Our own history teaches us that no amount of talk, no amount of appeals, no amount of logic and no amount of reason has ever succeeded so far as Britain was concerned in achieving anything that we as a nation were anxious to achieve. The freedom we have in the Twenty-Six Counties of Ireland to-day is due not to the talkers and not to the logicians but entirely to the persons who used the rifle and the machine-gun, and, if we are to achieve the ending of Partition in this country, it will be by these methods, and by these methods only, that we will succeed in doing so.

Down here in Dublin and this part of the country, we have no real idea of the conditions under which our fellow-nationals exist in the Six Counties. We have no idea of the way they are insulted, derided, walked upon, denied human rights. As Deputy Connolly has said, that has been done and is being done by a small body of people organised in the Orange Order.

I was reading a couple of days ago, in a Six-County paper, the Impartial Reporter, of 6th July, a reference to the unfurling of a banner in Enniskillen. This is what was said at that meeting:—

"They had two enemies in the world to-day, the Church of Rome and the Communism of Russia. These were the two enemies they must fight against. If they failed in the fight they became the slaves of Rome or the slaves of Joe Stalin. There was no difference in these two totalitarian Powers. Both had the same object. One was religious slavery and the other was economic and religious slavery."

That was the presentation of a banner to the Luther Branch of the Loyal Orange Lodge No. 624, a banner to be used to-day.

That is only one sample of the things that are being said up there. It is quite a frequent thing in the Six Counties to have challenges thrown out to us. Those challenges are not reproduced in our Press, for some reason or other. I wonder, if we fail to accept those challenges, are we worthy of our past, are we worthy of the people who made such sacrifices to bring about the freedom of this country or, when we talk about honouring these men, are we really sincere or are we talking with our tongues in our cheeks?

In those Six Counties of Ireland it is not an infrequent occurrence for nuns to be spat upon in the streets. That is part of our territory. Why do we permit that? Why do we tolerate it? We can stop it but, instead of doing anything to stop it, we prefer to have those annual recitations in this House on the Department of External Affairs about Partition. It is time that we stopped these recitations and it is time that the youth of this country was organised. It would be much better that it were done by the Government than by anybody else.

Mr. de Valera

It cannot be done by anybody else.

It would be much better that it were done by the Government than by anybody else.

Mr. de Valera

It cannot be done by anybody else.

We will see.

Mr. de Valera

I know I would see, if I had the job to do it.

Your days for doing that are done.

Time will tell whose days are done.

You got plenty of time to do it.

The Deputy was a long time in Clann na Poblachta before they threw him out.

Order! That matter was discussed yesterday and it is not to be repeated to-day.

Would that soldier with the Fáinne shut his mouth?

It were better, I say, that that were done by the Government and that the whole resources of this country were utilised to put an end once and for all to that tyranny that exists in the six northern counties.

Hear, hear! Peadar.

I am glad to know, as I do know, that there is growing up in the country a body of young people who are tired with the talking, tired with the personal abuse that is hurled at one another and at those who are organising to do this job of work. May I say to the Minister that our claim is a claim to the Thirty-Two Counties, our claim is to bring back within the jurisdiction of this State those six northern counties that opted out after 1921?

That opted out?

Opted out—opted.

Those six Northern counties opted out in accordance with the provisions of the Articles of Agreement of 1921.

I am sorry, Deputy. I do not think that portrays the position.

It is of no importance anyway. The Minister can look it up.

I know it only too well.

It is of no importance. What we want to do is to recover that territory and bring it within the jurisdiction of this State and we must bring it within the constitutional jurisdiction of this State, subject to this Parliament and to this Government. There can be no question whatsoever of any federal solution that will allow this ascendancy in the six northern counties to maintain their power over Irish nationalists for one day, even for one minute. That cannot be permitted or tolerated. Where our claim is for the recovery, the return, of those six northern counties, that claim is rejected. We get nowhere by offering then something instead, offering them a local parliament, even subject to the jurisdiction of this Parliament.

I had intended to say just a few words on this Vote in regard to our international associations and international commitments. I gather from statements made by the Minister and statements made by Deputy de Valera and statements made by other Ministers that if Partition were to be ended to-morrow this country would take its part in the Atlantic Pact. That is not stated in that simple way but the inference to be drawn is that if the United States of America were to exercise influence or force on Great Britain to agree to the ending of Partition then America and Britain could be assured that this country would join the Atlantic Pact. That is not said in so many words but that is the natural inference from the words and the way they have been stated. I think—I have expressed the view before and I express it again—that in a global war in the near future, at all costs and whatever the sacrifice, this country ought to maintain its neutrality and ought not to be involved in any such war. Many people, I am quite sure would seriously like to be involved in war——

Not even against Communism?

Or against the north.

Even against Communism. A war will be a very serious thing for the world.

If Communism succeeds.

This cross-roads form of interruption is not helpful.

Apart from that, the matter would have to be decided by the Dáil, would it not?

Yes, but any global war in the future will be a very serious affair for humanity.

I think every Deputy in the House will agree with the Deputy on that statement.

With serious issues.

The issues are serious just as the issues in 1914 were serious and just as the issues in 1939 were serious. So will the issues in another war be serious indeed. Naturally, what persons are concerned about and what we are all concerned about is: what will be the position of our civilisation and what will be the position of Christianity when that war is over? It is on that problem that I desire to make a few observations. All over the world and for many centuries this country has sent its missionaries abroad. Even to-day in Korea, where fighting is going on, Irish missionaries are at work there. In the event of a world war I feel that in the interests of civilisation and in the interest of Christianity it would be a desirable thing that even this small nation, if it can possibly be saved, should be saved from being obliterated. We may be occupied by the Russians; we may be occupied by the Americans. I do not want to see this country occupied by either power.

That is why I say that if our neutrality can be maintained it must and ought to be maintained and that no language ought to be used by any of our statesmen that would suggest that we would sell the rights we have even for the purpose of obtaining the liberty of our Six North Eastern Counties. Occupation forces are not very nice things to have in any country. At the moment, the Americans have an occupation force in Japan. I was interested to read an article in regard to that in the Catholic Herald of the 2nd June, 1950. That article was written by an Irish priest, Father Patrick O'Connor. I hope that nobody will say in this House that Father O'Connor had not the right to write this article, that he did not write it in a journal of repute and that what he says is not worthy of consideration. He starts his article in this way:—

"Japan has been stampeded into Government-sponsored birth control. .... In using the machinery of their Government to promote artificial birth control, Japanese politicians act in accord with the urgings of certain Occupation officials who have lectured them publicly and privately on the subject. The most highly publicised of these advocates is Dr. Warren S. Thompson, head of the Scripps Foundation for Population Research, Miami University, Ohio."

Would the Deputy relate that to this Vote?

I cannot see the relevance.

I am relating it to the observations that have been made by the Minister in introducing the Estimate. I am introducing it in relation to this question which confronts the world to-day and I am introducing it to show the dangers of the occupation of our territory by any force. We must be realists about this matter. I do not want to read any more from that article. It is revolting, but it is written by a person whom I accept as an authority and it is written in a journal for which I have great respect. I think it ought to show Deputies and the people that there is a tremendous danger to everything we hold dear in this world situation.

I would like to draw the Deputy's attention to the fact that the time allowed to members on this side of the House to participate in this debate is very limited and, if most of it is taken up by one person, others will not be allowed to express their views at all.

Fianna Fáil have got three hours and the Government side three and a half hours. Under the agreement Fianna Fáil should have two to one.

I merely want to point out that I had intended speaking, but in view of this I shall not do so. I merely want to make the position clear.

I want to make the position clear, too.

I am very sorry that my attention had to be drawn to this matter. I do not know how long I have been speaking, but I shall not speak for very much longer. I have been very careful in estimating time up to the present and I am very sorry.

I want to finish on this note. The whole tendency in external affairs at the moment seems to be to hold up America as the great defender of Christianity. My studies and my readings and my information in relation to what happens in America would indicate that if Christianity is not defended by nations like this, it will certainly never be defended by the advocates of birth control in the United States of America.

I would like, first of all to congratulate the Minister on proving how baseless are a great deal of the charges made against us for extravagance. I think he has pretty well convinced his own Party and our worst critics that the money spent by us on external affairs was the least that could have been spent. If anything, it was less than should have been spent.

There is no doubt about it, it is very difficult to fix the line between what should be spent in external affairs and what could properly be regarded as extravagance. A small nation must necessarily spend a great deal on propaganda. Its very existence amongst nations depends upon the goodwill and the standard of justice and fair play as between nations.

I am very glad the Minister has done so much with the bulletins. I always held that view from experience in the past that the bulletins are the best and the most effective way for carrying out propaganda. The Minister has not, so far, justified the activities of the Press agency. I agree entirely with what the Leader of the Opposition, Deputy de Valera, has said about that. I am not going to go over that ground again because time is precious just now and, besides, the ground does not require to be gone over. I am greatly afraid the Minister has bitten off more than he can chew in the Press agency end of the business. With regard to the bulletins, that activity is excellent. I regret they are not available for us to read them in the Library. I would be every interested if we could have them.

So far as one can judge, the Department of External Affairs has got away from allowing bulletins to be used in any way in a Party sense. They are now being used rather from the cultural point of view. The difficulty about our attempts to spread our culture is that there is not a sufficient drawing together of the cultural activities under one institute in order to supply the full amount of material that should be available for use abroad. There have been several activities, of which we have got a fairly brief account in the first Report of the Cultural Committee. It is very interesting, but I think it might have been a little bit fuller.

Someone made a complaint to me with regard to one very small matter. I do not want to indulge in carping criticism. I have in mind the Art Exhibition in Venice. There was someone let down there. I think there might have been a wider representation of pictures there. There were only two sent. I am drawing the attention of the Department to that so that anything like it will not occur again.

With regard to the criticisms made on the activities of the former Government and the present Government with reference to Partition, some people seem to forget that the former Government had first to clear the way. Until the position with regard to the Twenty-Six Counties had been firmly and finally established, as it was by the Constitution and by the agreements arrived at, which included the economic war, it was not possible to deal with Partition. It had been the policy from the outset, from the statement made when Fianna Fáil was founded by the Leader of that Party, that the line that would be taken would be first to clear the situation with regard to the sovereignty of the Twenty-Six Counties and then to proceed with Partition.

No time was lost after the agreement was made which recognised our Constitution and a very general and vigorous attempt was made to start an organisation in the hope that the Partition problem would have been solved before the next war came. Clouds were gathering at the end of 1938 and most people regarded war as inevitable and it was just at that time that it might have been settled. Unfortunately, some of the hotheads at that period—I do not want to go over that aspect of the question or to attack anybody—taking the law into their own hands, des troyed the opportunity which had arisen during that year when Partition might have been settled.

You always must have a scapegoat.

The Deputy should have sufficient intelligence to know that what I am saying is simply a statement of facts and I am not attacking anyone. Deputy Cowan now seems to be inclined to start another movement which is under no control. Nobody outside the Government can make war upon any other party or have under his control an armed force. It would lead to all sorts of trouble.

The Deputy need not go into that.

I did not intend to, but I was more or less tempted to follow that line. I was really answering the point that unless, first of all, the foundation of the Constitution had been properly laid and established it was not possible to deal with the question of Partition. That has now been dealt with and under present circumstances the propaganda which is going ahead is of a very admirable kind. I think we can take a certain amount of encouragement out of the fact that we were able to achieve our Constitution during that period between 1932 and 1938. We can encourage ourselves in the hope that we can also solve this other question with the Six Counties, without having to go to the necessity of making war upon them. They are, as many of our leaders have said, our own fellow countrymen, and a peaceful victory, a victory by reason would be infinitely better than to have to settle it by other means.

How long will you spend reasoning?

We have not been so long, considering what has happened, with the war only ended for so many years. I think that, without ever excluding our right to take other means, at the same time there is the opportunity there, and I do not think you can make war and peace at the same time. You cannot try to offer to a people a settlement and come to a harmonious agreement and at the same time say: "Well, we are really going to make war on you at the same time."

It is a police action.

That is only an adjective. You can cover anything by names.

All the same, they are our own countrymen also.

In addition to the honest and united attempt of the nation at present on which we are all agreed, a great deal can be done directly on the cultural side to bring about a sympathetic understanding with the Six Counties. In many respects, on many of the cultural things, they are even better than we are and they have more local and national feeling. In matters of detail, a tremendous amount of work can be done to undermine the bigotry in the North.

It would be useful if the Minister would give the House and the public an indication of the Government's personal encouragement and welcome for the inter-Parliamentary Union which will be coming to Ireland in September. There will be about 35 nations represented and perhaps more. It is an opportunity of showing these people the attractions of this country and our cultural developments, and indirectly of influencing that type of opinion by strengthening our goodwill amongst nations, which makes it all the easier for us to solve our difficult problem of Partition. All these things are bearing in the same direction. Although the problem of Partition will not play explicitly a single part in these conferences, it will be taken in the ordinary course of all the other problems which arise for other nations. At the same time, we do get an opportunity on that occasion which we never have had before of influencing political opinion all over the world and for that reason I am sure that we will all welcome the coming of these people to the country.

I would like to congratulate the Minister on the very detailed way in which he has presented his Estimate. We are very proud of his activities and of the successes obtained. I do not propose to follow Deputy Cowan to Korea or to try and compare birth control in Japan with the Estimates. I do agree with a lot of what he said in regard to Partition. I was very glad to hear Deputy Little, in following him, say that they on the opposite side, while they believed that the question of Partition should be ended by peaceful negotiations, never excluded the right to use other means, if necessary. I think that is something that everyone can agree to and it is a phrase that everyone in this House would like to re-echo, that we are all anxious to see Partition ended, anxious to see it ended by peaceful negotiations, as we do not want to be forced into the position of waging war on our fellow-countrymen.

It was never our intention to wage war on our fellow countrymen, but there are people in this country who believe that, if England continues to hold the Six North-Eastern Counties by force, if they will not listen to the reasoned arguments of our politicians and political representatives, then in other days younger men will adopt the attitude that their fathers adopted in clearing the British out of the TwentySix Counties and will complete the job by driving them out of the Six Counties. We feel and hope that such an action will not be necessary, but if such an action is necessary and if anyone, any group of people, either directed by the Government or otherwise——

Mr. de Valera

Not otherwise.

Deputy de Valera did not always say that. As far as I am concerned, I have always felt and believed that the achievement of the freedom of this country is the duty of the young men of this country. That is what I learned from Deputy de Valera and a lot of his colleagues. That is what I preached all my life and what I intend to continue to preach here and elsewhere.

Mr. de Valera

You have a democratic Constitution now and are in a different position.

A Deputy

We had since 1921.

You have got the Republic of Ireland now. The Minister for External Affairs—let me give him some credit for this—has behind him, in his negotiations to end Partition, a united Ireland as far as the Twenty-Six Counties is concerned. We can claim through our attitude that we are to some extent responsible for that. We feel and hope that that united front will continue and, as Deputy Cowan said, we hope that bickering from one side of the House to the other will not be responsible for upsetting that united drive.

I listened with great attention to the Leader of the Opposition, Deputy de Valera, in a long and not too critical review of the Estimate. He approached practically every item in a sort of mild criticism of the Minister's speech and his words might be used in justification of it. He said during the course of his speech that so far the productive results compared favourably with the extra amount spent. In the form in which you put them, practically everything that you said——

The Deputy might address the Chair and say: "everything the Deputy said."

I beg your pardon, Sir. Practically everything that Deputy de Valera said during the course of his criticism could be used in justification of the increased amount of expenditure shown in the Estimate. He even went so far as to explain that devaluation was responsible for it to a certain extent. He did criticise the news agency. When the News Agency Bill was going through the House his Party criticised the method that was adopted. They are still timidly critical of it, but they believe and I believe that it is the only method we have to counteract the opponents of a united Ireland and the channels that they use to get their propaganda all over the world. The Government are adopting every method that is possible to bring home to the world the great wrong that is done this country by the British in maintaining Partition. Partition is only maintained and is only possible because Britain holds an army of occupation there. While that army of occupation is there, young men of patriotic spirit, whether all of us in this House approve of it or whether the people outside approve of it, will for ever try to band themselves together and use all the influence and pressure they can bring to bear upon us here to end that terrible wrong. If necessary, they are prepared to lay down their lives in defence of the measure of freedom that we have succeeded in getting. I am sure that the young men of Ireland to-day, if given an opportunity, are prepared to go into any organisation, any national voluntary movement, not alone to defend the Republic, but to end this awful wrong of Partition that is being perpetrated on this country by the presence in north-east Ulster of an army of occupation.

I am rather surprised at the attitude that Deputy Fitzpatrick has taken in regard to the partition question, about which all of us are so deeply concerned. Deputy Fitzpatrick is a member of the Government Party and therefore must be regarded as a Deputy of some responsibility. From my point of view, that Government Party has taken up the question of solving the Partition problem in a constitutional manner. It rather surprises me, and I am sure it surprises some members of the Government Party, that he should show by his present attitude that he is not satisfied with the progress which that Party is making towards the solution of this difficult question.

We have had to suffer from this disability for quite a considerable time and we may have to suffer from it for some time longer before a solution is found for it, but I think that any Deputy who advocates methodes such as Deputy Fitzpatrick has at back of his mind, but to which he has not given full expression, is doing a disservice to the nation inasmuch as he is possibly inciting young man to take action which would be undesirable, because the Government could not in present circumstances stand behind it or attempt to solve the problem of Partition by methods such as he has in his mind and such as Deputy Cowan appears to have in his mind by reason of the formation of this force which he has created and which he has said will solve the question of Partition with a minimum of bloodshed. From that expression alone it would appear to me that Deputy Cowan's force is preparing at some period, not too distant, to take such action by force of arms as will secure the results which he hopes to achive. But that is only a pious hope. Is he going to bring such a force into the North of Ireland and start what would be tantamount to another civil war, because whatever action will be taken in the North of Ireland will of necessity have to be taken against Irishmen who hold views opposed to the views which he holds?

There will be no civil war.

I can assure Deputy Fitzpatrick and Deputy Cowan that we on this side of the House are as anxious to end Partition as they are We have been working on it for quite a considerable time and, during the Deputy Fitzpatrick was a member of an organisation which did not give us much help to end Partition.

We were two leagues in front of you.

Whether you were in front of us or behind us, you certainly spiked our guns. I can assure Deputy Fitzpatrick that we were making considerable progress in the education of public opinion. We were striving to educate the type of mind in England which required enlightenment and we were securing a measure of success in that respect. The action which the I.R.A of that period decided upon prevented us from securing results and, indeed, secured no results other than a series of sentences of long imprisonment for the unfortunate people who participated in it. I would appeal to Deputy Fitzpatrick and Deputy Cowan not to be instigating action of the kind which they appear to have in mind. Both if these Deputies are now members of constitutional Party.

When Deputy Fitzpatrick was having a little jibe at the Leader of the opposition and said: "You now have a Republic," I can hardly imagine that he was serious in making such a statement. We have got a limited Republic. We have not got the Republic for which he and I and others fought, and until we get a Republic legislating for the complete territory of this country we should be very loth to describe the present State as the Irish Republic. It is three-quarters of a Republic and I am sure Deputy Fitzpatrick is no more satisfied with that than I am.

You are right there.

In that respect I would suggest that Deputies discussing this question here ought to use more common-sense because words idly spoken here and spoken merely for effect because Deputies want to have a report of what they say——

Do not destroy your speech now.

——will, in turn, have a very serious effect on the minds of some young people who will take them as the words of responsible men and, therefore, words to which serious consideration has been given.

The Deputy was doing well until he had that last little jibe.

The Deputy was doing very well and very fairly until that last little jibe.

I could say a lot more about the Deputy's force but I will refrain from doing so.

Quite right. Leave it there.

I will use discretion.

Leave it to Deputy MacEntee.

Silence is golden in that particular respect. I would like to refer now to the question of the expenditure involved in respect of the Department of External Affairs. In 1947 the total expenditure was £161,760; in this year's Estimate we find a figure of £359,350, an addition of £197,590. Now, I shall not criticise the value of the expenditure in the present Estimate as against the provision made in the year 1947-48. The Minister for Finance, when introducing his first Budget, stated that he could not accept any responsibility for the Estimates as regards either their form or their amount. "They are at present," he said, "being closely examined in the various Departments and offices concerned with a view to effecting the minimum of economy." That statement was contained in a covering note which was circulated with the Budget statement. He was not satisfied with the covering note and the expression of opinion conveyed to the House in that note. He went on, in the course of his Budget statement, to pick out the Departments that he would especially economise on. For one reason or another, perhaps for the reason the Leader of the Opposition gave to-day, he lighted upon the Department of External Affairs where, he said, he would make special economies. Now no economies were made. Rather, there was an additional expenditure year after year. Salaries and wages went up from £31,551 to £60,397; there was no economy in that particular section of the Department. Travelling expenditure rose from £750 to £4,750, £4,000 more. Incidental expenses rose from £500 to £2,900; telegrams and telephones rose from £2,000 to £5,600. Finally, entertainment rose from £2,000 to £6,500; representatives abroad rose from £93,163 to £193,553. The Irish News Agency, which did not exist in our time, has now been established at a cost of £25,000. In addition to that there is an item marked "Information Material" for which a sum of £10,000 is being embarked. I do not know, because I have not got any information, as to whether this "Information Material" which will the £10,000 has any connection with the Irish News Agency.

None at all.

It is a completely separated item with no connection?

I dealt with that in introducing the Estimate.

I was not here for the entire of the Minister's statement and I am wondering if he gave us any information in respect of that particular item.

I did. I can give it again, if necessary.

If the Minister gave the information then I can secure it later on. I merely wanted to know if this was related in any way to the £25,000 for the Irish News Agency.

No, no relation at all.

I said initially that I am not objecting to the expenditure of this vast amount of money and I am not objecting to this vast increase in the expences of the Department if the expenditure of this money will benefit the nation. If the expenditure of this money will bring kudos to this nation, the money will be well spent. If it does anything to secure world sympathy in regard to the partition of our country, it will be money well spent. The point I want to drive home is, was the Minister, in 1947, when he was campaigning to secure election in County Dublin, so immature and so ignorant of the administration of a big public Department, or so completely innocent, that he could make statements which led people to believe that, if he were elected on a majority suffrage, he and his Party would bring about such economies in the cost of administration as would result ultimately in a reduction in the cost of living? If the Minister made that statement in the full knowledge of what the administration of a large public Department means, then he was guilty of deceving the voters and he was doubly guilty when he repeated these statements in the course of the general election which secured a change of Government. There has been no reduction in the cost of living. There has been no economy of the kind of the people were told would be brought about. Indeed, the opposite is the fact. Before the public knew where they were the Government elected to bring about these economies, about which the Minister for Finance was so vocal, increased the Ministry by two seats. That was their first effort at bringing about an economy in regard to the administration of this State. Other Deputies have referred to matters more germane to a general discussion on external affairs, but all that I am concerned with at the moment is the fact that this Department is costing the people of this State more than twice the amount it was costing during the time when the Minister and his colleagues were denouncing the late Government as being a Government of spendthrifts, an extravagent Government with no regard to the financial affairs of the State.

The results justify it.

Did they not justify it before?

You had no results before.

I will deal with that in a few minutes.

The only results the public can see in respect to this Department are the continuous flights abroad of the head of the Department, the huge entertainment of foreign and home diplomats and the establishment, to all intents and purpose, of a diplomatic club in this city at the expense of the people of this state. If Deputy Fitzpatrick thinks that is a satisfactory result, he is entitled to think that, but I do not think so. I have already stated that, if the vast sum of money involved in this Estimate is not bring to this nation the sympathy of other states in support of our national difficulty the money will be well expended.

I could if necessary, go in to greater detail on this Estimate. I am sure that if I and my colleagues were to examine it much more closely than apparently Deputy Fitzpatrick has done, we would find many directions in which economies could be made, and made with very great effect. As I have said I have pointed out the deceit that was practised on the public during the last election. That is not peculiar to this particular Department but is Common to every Department of State. We were told that, in all these Departments, economies were to be made, that the costs of the administration of the state were to be reduced and that condition were to be much better. I would ask Deputy Fitzpatrick, has cost of living been reduced in this State and has employment increased?

The cost of living is not relevant on this Estimate.

It is relevant in reply to the interjections which were made by the Deputy concerned, and with that I propose to leave the matter as it is.

I would advise you to read your Leader's statement. It might help you.

It is very nice to know that the Clann na Poblachta Party have learned something as a result of coming into office. I must say, at the beginning, that I need not thank them to be here, because if any man suffered misrepresentation at their hands I did I am here, and thanks be to God for that.

You mean over there.

I am here. I want to put it this way, that the people of Ireland suffered more by the misrepresentation that was carried on by your Party, Deputy Fitzpatrick—I say that through the Chair—and by the Minister——

Acting-Chairman

Will the Deputy come to the Estimate?

I will refer what I am saying to the Estimate. We were told that the cost of all Departments was to come down, and that we were a squandermania Government, Our Leader was misrepresented by every means in their power. That was carried on more so by the Leader of the Clann na Polblachta and his minions on the hustings at that time than by anybody else. I welcome their conversion, as a result of the experience that they have had in office, that any money that was spent by the then Taoiseach and Minister for External Affairs was spent in a judicious manner as far as the resources if this nation could afford to carry on the work that was necessary to be done in connection with this Department. I suppose, in view of changed times, the Minister can justify any expenditure. I hope that if ever we are in power again that never again, either on public platforms or in this Assembly, will details in regard to the administration of external affairs be subjected to the low, mean method of misoresentation that was carried on against us.

We are getting the results now.

There is another matter I want to refer to. It is the tourist industry which, I know, is one of the hated things which the Minister and his Party despise as being one of our hare-brained schemes.

Acting-Chairman

It does not arise on this Estimate.

Excuse me, it does in this way. This state is paying representatives abroad and we have offices abroad. What I want to know from the Minister is, whether he is using our offices and representatives abroad in order to encourage that tourist industry here.

Acting-Chairman

That is in order.

I think the Minister dealt with that.

I did not hear the Minister, but I welcome his conversion to the tourist industry. A few friends of mine who have been on holiday here are anxious, if it is possible, that in certain towns in the United States we should have an Irish Consul.

More expense.

Pardon me. We are not finding any fault with the expence. It is the Deputy who was to cut down expenses by 30 per cent., including the cost of living. We were anxious to see that this nation should be properly represented abroad, so far as the resources of the nation will enable us to do that. If, as our honoured leader has said here, it is possible to have representatives in certain towns abroad to afford facilities to our people who may be there, whether that representation be of a temporary or a permanent nature, I am sure such a step would be welcomed by everybody.

I want now to deal with Deputy Fitzpatrick's speech. He has one leg in the Government and the other leg outside the ditch trying to encourage the other fellow along. I am sure Deputy Fitzpatrick will never make a mistake because, when one thing goes against him, he is certain to have something else to fall back upon. Of course it is not a bad thing for an army to have some ground to which it can retreat but I do say that we in this House as public representatives should have some backbone to stand up to a position and to recognise that we have a Constitution here which Fianna Fáil introduced and that that Constitution caters fully for all points of view in this country. I am relating it now to the question of Partition. I do not see why any public representative should take advantage of his position in this House to encourage any young fellow to join any organisation except the Army of this State. If the Irish people are not capable of electing a Government to guide them properly, and if we are not going to protect the democracy which numbers of Irishmen went to a premature grave to try and preserve, there is no use in any Deputy or anybody else trying to have a foot across both sides of the ditch, because that is what it really means. If the question of Partition is going to be handled at all, it will have to be handled by the people of Ireland in a constitutional way. I would not be afraid to go across if the occasion should arise; I am not going to shrik any responsibility in that way but I do say that this is a matter which should be left to the Government of the country. Sufficient mistakes have been made in the past without adding to them in future.

Deputy Traynor dealt with that matter fully but unfortunate people, whether their motives are good or bad, should not be encouraged by any act in this House to proceed on the same lines again. Any action we can take here to unite the people to end Partitition or any help we can give the Minister for External Affairs towards that end should come through Dáil Éireann and from Dáil Éireann only. We should try to unite the nation on that basis, not by trying to have a foot on each side of the ditch. Again I welcome the conversions that have already taken place. I am delighted to see that the misrepresentation that has been carried on in this regard has changed completely.

Tempora mutantor nos et mutamur in illis.

May I intervene for a few moments to recall one matter to which reference has been made by Deputies in this discussion? We have had views expressed from different sides of the House with regard to the problem of Partition and the means and the policy which should be adopted towards its solution. I should like to say, from the point of view of the Fine Gael Party, that our concern is now what it always has been, the unity of Ireland not merely in its territory, but also in the minds and the aspirations of all its people irrespective of whether they live in the Twenty-Six Counties or the Six North-Eastern Counties. In the view of anybody who sincerely desires that end, it must be accepted that any unity of territory achieved by force would constitute merely a barren victory because it would leave, as we have learned here to our cost, a festering sore of spite and malice which would keep both parts of our nation asunder for many generations to come. It is for that reason that we, in the Fine Gael Party, and I think Deputies on most sides of the House deprecate very much this idle talk of achieving a solution by force. If force were used—and force can only be used by the Government and under the direction of this Parliament—and used successfully, the unity of our territory might be achieved but we might store up for our country at the same time a heritage of disunity for the future that might time and again dislocate and impede the national effort. We believe, with the Minister and with the Government, that the unity of this country can and will be achieved by mustering the world opinion in our favour, possibly by the pressure of world events. Unity achieved in that way, when it comes, will be a real unity for our people north and south.

I do not want to say anything with regard to the other matters raised in this debate except that there have been references to private armies, to volunteer forces and, I think, also references to the Constitution. It is abundantly clear now to all Deputies and to the people of this country that —and this is true of all the Constitutions this country have had since 1921— respect for the Constitution freely established by our people is the only guarantee for national salvation. That is accepted by all sides now and, as the Taoiseach stated clearly, no departure from that principle will be admitted under this Government or, I believe, under any Government here. We in the Fine Gael Party would not under any circumstances be a party to any departure from those principles which we believe are the essential guarantees for the liberty of our State.

At the outset, I should like to thank the Leader of the Opposition and most of the Deputies who have spoken for the reasonable and objective discussion that has taken place on this Estimate. With one or two notable exceptions, the discussion was of a most helpful and constructive nature. I think, by and large, criticism of the Estimate, as put forward by Deputy de Valera as Leader of the Opposition, was limited mainly to the expenditure in relation to the news agency. As Deputy de Valera pointed out very correctly, probably no two Deputies would agree as to the exact direction, scope and method in which expenditure should be undertaken in order to put forward, if you like, Ireland's case to the world generally. The question of the news agency was discussed at length in this House last year and I do not propose to go back into the various arguments in favour of it. I merely would like to say this in passing: I would ask the Opposition to give the news agency a fair and reasonable trial. I would remind the Opposition and Deputy de Valera that he himself at one stage felt that such a news agency would be of benefit and would have taken steps to create it were it not for the fact that his actions, he felt at the time, would have been misrepresented by the Opposition.

Mr. de Valera

I am in a difficult position on that now as the Minister knows—if I might interrupt on a personal matter. I do not want to go into it but I think that the Minister completely misrepresented my personal attitude on that. He quoted a letter supposed to have come from me but I doubt very much that it actually did. I understand that it was more or less a personal letter to the Minister and in any case my position regarding it was quite clear. I had an open mind. I examined the thing thoroughly and I satisfied myself that we could not compete effectively in that field, that is, strictly in the field of a news agency.

I did not come prepared to argue the matter and I did not bring the relevant file, but I did at the time of the debate on the news agency which went on for several weeks in this House. If I in any way misrepresented the attitude of Deputy de Valera on that occasion I would have expected to have that matter brought to my attention at the time.

Mr. de Valera

With regard to the letter I am supposed to have written, it is very hard for me to satisfy myself that it was my view.

Mr. Gallagher wrote the letter.

The director of the bureau. I think there was some other correspondence with Deputy de Valera but that matter is closed.

Mr. de Valera

I can assure the Minister that my attitude was that I was fully aware of the harm done by news agencies in the way in which they represented news from this country and I would like to be able to combat it. The Minister, then in another capacity, made a proposal and I had it examined. My own view was that it would not be possible for us to enter that field with success because it was too large.

Anybody who is interested can look up the debates and read the letter which contained presumably the Government's reason and the reason stated in writing in that letter was that the Opposition would make such a thing unworkable by being unreasonable. However, I do not want to raise this. I merely want to put it to Deputy de Valera and the members of the Fianna Fáil Party that the decision to start a news agency was taken by the Dáil. They may disagree with that decision but like all of us they must be prepared to admit that possibly they are wrong and that other judgments are right. I ask them in view of the decision that was taken to give the news agency a fair trial and to co-operate to the maximum with the news agency in the interests of its success. That, I think, is not an unreasonable request and they should be in a position to be the first to welcome it if it is a success.

Mr. de Valera

If it is a success.

Meanwhile I would ask Deputy de Valera and his Party to give every assistance to the news agency in order to ensure that it will be a success.

That was broadly speaking the main criticism put forward by Deputy de Valera on the Estimate. I am sorry that Deputy Traynor for whom I have a great personal regard should have introduced a different note in his criticism, a note which, I think, is unworthy of him and in which he did not do justice to himself. He talked about continuous flights and continuous entertainment carried on by the Minister. I have not undertaken one single journey out of this country that it was not essential for me to undertake and I think if the time were to be measured I have taken fewer journeys than my predecessors in similar circumstances. I never criticised their expenditure on the Department of External Affairs when Deputy de Valera was Minister for External Affairs. I criticised the late Government for their expenditure on trans-Atlantic airlines and such matters. I never criticised their expenditure on external affairs. On the contrary, any criticism I did offer in relation to that matter was for not spending enough.

I am sorry that Deputy Traynor is not in the House because I would like to remind Deputy Traynor that some short time ago he made a statement which was reported in the Press on similar lines about entertainment. He then went on to state that I was building an additional restaurant at the back of the Department of External Affairs for entertainment. That was untrue. The restaurant, or rather the canteen which is being built at the back of the Department of External Affairs is a Civil Service canteen which was decided upon by the last Government and the work was undertaken before the change of Government. I think the sooner Deputies on the Opposition Benches give up pursuing this particular line of propaganda the better. I do not think it does them credit and I do not think it helps them politically in the country.

I pointed out that between £50,000 and £55,000 increase in the cost of the Department is due to devaluation. Approximately £30,000 is due to additional work in relation to European Recovery Programme and the balance of the increase is due in the main to the information services and the news agency. No Deputy has suggested how any of this added expenditure could be reduced, save and except in relation to the news agency, and Deputies were all prepared to say that that money would be better spent on some other method of propaganda. I think it a pity that notes of that kind should have to be introduced into the discussion which is a serious and important discussion.

Deputy de Valera made some suggestions in relation to the running of the Department, suggestions which are most helpful and constructive. He referred to the possiblity of appointing more honorary consuls. That is a matter which we have under consideration and which has not been forgotten in any way, but there are unfortunately a number of difficulties in relation to honorary consuls. Paradoxically enough, it would be unwise and practically impossible to appoint an honorary consul in a large Irish population centre, whereas it would be easy to do it in a place where there is no Irish population or a very small Irish population. In a large Irish population centre, such as any of the big cities in America, it would be invidious to select A as honorary consul because immediately B, C, D, E and F would feel that they were insulted. Therefore, the possibility of appointing honorary consuls in any big Irish population centre would present very serious difficulties, unless there was in any given place a man who was outstandingly recognised by everybody as being the one and only person capable of discharging that honorary position. There is a need for honorary consuls in a number of other places and the matter is being examined, mainly in relation to ports and areas of the world where our ships are now going. There is quite an urgent need for representation in these ports and areas in relation to our shipping.

Deputy de Valera also made a suggestion with regard to the possibility of pooling representation through some international organisation. That is the matter which we have discussed from time to time. It may be a possible development, though I can see a great many difficulties, because, in every place where we have an office, we find that there is a considerable amount of routine business—consular work, trade matters or routine work of one kind or another—which has to be performed, and, even if we could succeed in getting agreement on a pooling of representation in one central place, like Strasbourg or some other place, we would still find it necessary to maintain an office in order to discharge the work to be carried out.

One thing of which I should like to remind the House is that, largely through the work of the Department of External Affairs, both its economic work and its diplomatic work, this country received over £1,000,000 in free gift this year—more than twice the total budget of the Department itself—so that it is not simply an ornamental appendage attached to the Government. In addition, the Department collects very considerable sums of money accruing to Irish citizens abroad.

Can the Minister say how the £1,000,000 arises?

It formed part of a grant of $3,000,000 made to this country out of E.C.A. funds.

And under our agreement with the United States?

There was no agreement to pay £1,000,000, no.

I think it is a dangerous gift, but however.

The Deputy and I do not see eye-to-eye on these matters. Possibly the Deputy would like to explain on some other occasion from a public platform how he would obtain the necessary tobacco, oil, grain, machinery and so forth which has to be obtained from the dollar area without dollars. Possibly the Deputy might organise an expeditionary force to get them.

Deputy de Valera said that it might have been useful to have some comparisons with other countries of similar size. I took one or two instances in opening my remarks, including the British High Commissioner's Office in Pakistan, as I felt that was rather striking, but I have some figures here showing the expenditure of other comparable countries. Switzerland spends £2,168,000 on its Department of External Affairs, as against our £400,000.

Mr. de Valera

What is the total State expenditure?

I have not got that figure.

Mr. de Valera

That is the figure that would enable the comparison to be drawn.

Norway, which I regard generally as a comparable country, both as to national income and population, spends £1,170,000.

Mr. de Valera

And the total State expenditure?

I have not got that figure, but Norway is in or about our level in income and population.

I agree entirely with practically everything said by Deputy de Valera in relation to Partition and in relation to our foreign policy generally. He said—and I should like to echo this, lest anything said by other Deputies might be regarded as having taken away from it, or lest my silence after certain statements have been made might be regarded as agreement or as indicating a reluctance to comment on some of the statements made—that, if this State got adequate equipment to defend itself, there is no nation in Europe that would resist more fiercely, more determinedly, any attempted invasion or any interference with its sovereignty than this nation. Of that I am certain and I feel that every Deputy should agree with that viewpoint.

Deputy Connolly made a very wellthought-out, very reasoned and obviously extremely sincere speech. He stated the fundamental problems, in so far as they affect us in regard to Partition, and I am sure that probably every member of the House can largely share the views as stated by him. Obviously, the continuance of Partition is a constant menace to the peace of this country. Once you interfere with the sovereignty and unity of any nation, you create the conditions that are likely to bring about a civil war. We have examples of that in Asia at the moment. These conditions apply here; these dangers exist here. But I agree entirely with Deputy de Valera that the policy and the action to be taken in regard to the unification of this country must be determined by this House, by the representatives of the people. You cannot have each and every person in the country deciding to formulate policy for the country. There must be some basis of agreement. My view has been that the present Constitution provides a framework which can be accepted by every section of the population. I have held that view since the Constitution was enacted.

Now let me put it on another basis. This country is a small country. No matter what amount of physical and moral courge we may have, it is quite obvious that we can never win a war against Great Britain. Putting it at the best, even supposing you had arms, you have a population of 3,000,000 against 50,000,000, so that your chances of winning are practically negligible in case of war. It would result in a civil war with a section of our own people. It is quite obvious that there is a section in the Six Countries who, backed by another country, would fight back if they were attacked. After all, these people, as some Deputies have interjected, are Irishmen, too, just as much as Deputy Cowan. We have to try to find a solution which will enable us to live and work together as a united people. We have had one civil war in the generation to which I belong. We know the after-effects of it.

Would the Minister say that the Jews were wrong, then, in taking on the big odds they did and winning out?

There is no parallel between these two situations. Another thing that has to be faced up to in relation to the Six County position is that, rightly or wrongly, justifiably or unjustifiably, undoubtedly, a section of the population in the Six Counties have been given fears, bred by propaganda and by bigotry over a number of years, fears as to the possibility of our intolerance, fears that we would interfere with their religious or political liberty. We know that these fears are unfounded. We know that this is a line of propaganda which has been put across in the Six Counties in order to stir up bigotry and maintain the existing division. Nevertheless, if these fears exist, we have to be prepared to meet them and to allay them as far as we can and I think we should go quite a long distance in doing that.

Above all, I would appeal to the members of the House to remember this, that the only possibility of success in any crisis in this country, be it in time of war, be it in relation to the ending of Partition, is if you have a unified people. I think Deputy Cowan would be rendering a service to the country if he ceased taking steps or making statements that can only result in weakening the national effort by causing disunity.

I am sure the various things he says, the various steps he takes, are not intended by him to cause disunity or to weaken the national effort but, if he takes time to think, he will realise that they can only result in causing disunity. Possibly, it is unwise to take so much notice of this matter, but I do feel that Deputy Cowan would be rendering a service to the country if he realised this at this stage.

Motion put and declared negatived.

Vote put and agreed to.
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