Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 Feb 1952

Vol. 129 No. 7

Tourist Traffic Bill, 1951—Second Stage (Resumed).

Mr. Cosgrave

I was saying when the debate was adjourned that the proposals in this Bill, while maintaining the independence of the Irish Tourist Association and the Irish Tourist Board, in fact will probably result in the ending of any real functions by the Irish Tourist Association. That being so, I believe it would be better openly to face the fact that tourism in this country can be best developed by the establishment of a single statutory authority; that, if necessary, the membership should be extended beyond the seven members proposed. Allowing for the extension from five to seven, it should be possible to secure adequate representation for all the associations concerned, and at the same time maintain the goodwill of the members of the associations at present in existence.

If Deputies consider what the alternative is they will realise that the proposals in this Bill may lead to a fantastic situation. It is true that there is provision in the Bill that in its publicity programme the publicity board will have regard to the tourist policy. But, with one statutory body dealing with one aspect of the tourist situation, such as accommodation and development of the facilities which we need in order to attract tourists, and another independent statutory body charged with the responsibility of conducting publicity, it is obvious that there will be overlapping, confusion and a top-heavy administrative machine.

If any consideration is to be given to the suggestion that expenditure at the moment is running beyond income and that we must endeavour to restrict unnecessary expenditure to the lowest limit compatible with essential needs, then administrative expenditure should be kept to a minimum. The proposal in this Bill to establish a separate board for publicity purposes will, I believe, clog up the whole tourist industry with overlapping and unnecessary administrative responsibility. I do not think that any argument which has been advanced concerning the establishment of a separate tourist publicity board justifies the proposal or will convince Deputies that it is desirable to have a separate body dealing with tourist publicity.

One can picture a position in which a body charged with publicity, anxious to attract the maximum number of tourists, would run far ahead of the accommodation available here. It is much easier to attract tourists than to provide adequate accommodation, and this year will likely see the greatest influx of tourists ever to this country. It is questionable whether the accommodation available or what may be provided between now and the opening of the tourist season proper will be adequate to cater for the numbers who will come here. The fact that the British have restricted the tourist allowance to travellers, the impact of taxation and other restrictions in Britain, will have an effect on the number of persons likely to come here and I believe will result in a substantial increase in the number of tourists from Britain this year.

The E.C.A. in its earlier operations laid particular stress on the value of the tourist trade and the members of that mission lacked nothing in enthusiasm or energy. It was noticeable. however, that as the period during which Marshall Aid would run drew to a conclusion there was a change of viewpoint which the Minister referred to. The same anxiety to secure an influx of American tourists here was not as obvious as it had been in the earlier period. We should, at any rate, profit by the information given and the suggestions made by the members of the Christenberry mission and the other representatives of the E.C.A. who came here, and the advice which they gave as to the steps necessary to be taken.

If we are prepared to adopt some of the suggestions made, such as the suggestions which have been incorporated in this Bill, if the members of the various organisations in the country accept them in the spirit in which they were offered and profit by them, I have no doubt that we can attract a very considerably increased tourist traffic to the country. We must be prepared to make an effort and we must recognise the potentialities of the tourist trade. In the past, insufficient attention has been paid to that aspect of the matter. As I said earlier, it is probable that very few people recognised the economic advantages of the tourist trade. This year it offers the best hope of bridging the gap in the balance of payments, because it is capable of expansion more rapidly than any other aspect of our national economy. Benefit will result not only to hoteliers and other people directly concerned with the tourist trade but to the various cities and towns by attracting the maximum number of tourists possible.

The Christenberry report recommended increased accommodation. They found it difficult to lay down a definite figure, because it is not possible to get accurate statistics of the number of rooms required. It was estimated that approximately 50,000 additional tourists would come here in the years immediately following the submission of that report and that at least 1,500 additional beds would be required. In addition to these suggestions, the report recommended certain improvements which are indicated in the synthesis. It is in the interest of every hotelier in the country to study that report and to profit by the suggestions contained in it.

Other provisions in the Bill may, I think, more appropriately be left to the Committee Stage, with the exception of a reference to Section 5 where it states: "It shall be the duty of the board to encourage and promote the development of tourist traffic in and to the State."

I think that in a Bill of this nature it would be better to say: "In and to Ireland." It is somewhat unusual to limit the operation of a measure of this nature to the State itself. We should, I think, encourage people to come to the country. If they come to one part of it, they are likely to go to another part, and we should not distinguish between the area within our jurisdiction and that which is at present outside of it.

Mr. M. O'Reilly

I would not have intervened in this debate but for the fact that this is one of the most important industries we have especially from the point of view of the agricultural community. I agree that it is easy enough to attract tourists to the country, but it is extremely difficult, apparently, to handle them either in regard to transport or when they go to the hotels. I have noticed from time to time that the hotels in the City of Dublin are thronged out with tourists, some sleeping in smoke-rooms and elsewhere, while down through the country, where we have some magnificent hotels surrounded by the most magnificent scenery, with good shooting and good fishing, you hardly see anybody at all in them. I think we have two bodies dealing with that position and I wonder very much why they cannot do something about it.

I know there is something to be ashamed of because, on occasions, I myself have been fairly ashamed when I went to certain parts of County Dublin and even certain parts of the County Meath. I have noticed, for instance, in the case of signposts and of danger signals, that all the reflectors were picked out of the danger signals, while the signposts were always turned in the opposite direction. That, to my mind, must be very disconcerting to a tourist.

When he goes a little bit further he will see a dilapidated house, the walls standing gaunt and naked, all stained with the weather and indicating dilapidation and misery. Further on, when he comes to a magnificent road, there will be few people around who can tell him anything about it. There is no literature of any description to tell him anything. Behind the road he will see a graveyard covered with nettles, dirt and weeds of every description. These are some of the reasons why, it seems to me, a tourist prefers to go to the Museum even or into the Picture Gallery to view some of the middling pictures hanging there. He cannot see the good ones because they are in the cellar mainly, I suppose, because there is no room to hang them. The same thing applies to the Museum. There is more underneath in the cellar than there is upstairs, and the reason is that there is no room for it upstairs. Now, I want to say that tourists pay a lot of attention to that sort of thing.

I was speaking to tourists in Trim during the summer who were anxious to get a hold of some pamphlets giving a description of the many ruins that are to be seen there. They could not get any. They asked me for a few books. If pamphlets were available, these tourists could have spent a few days amusing themselves in that district, particularly if they could get any idea as to whether the ruins there were Cromwell's ruins or Norman ruins. They faced then for the Boyne and the same thing happened there. They got down to the Loughcrew area. They could have spent days there examining all the mounds that are on the top of the hill. There was nobody to tell them anything, who built them or anything else. There were no pamphlets to be found in the hotels giving any description of them. If they were to go further, the people around Loughcrew would tell them: "Oh! Blessed Oliver Plunket was born there, but do not go down to Loughcrew churchyard because if you do you will be drowned in the weeds; all that is to be seen there is an old tumbled down gate with the entry walls collapsing."

I think that is no attraction for tourists. If we take last year, I had occasion to go to Dún Laoghaire. The going in part seemed to have been happy enough but not the going out part. I had occasion to go to an office here in the city which is called the London, Midland and Scottish Office. No man could get into that place, and I had to leave. I was trying to get tickets for passengers. In order to do so, I had to go to Cooks where I must say I got every possible service and information. It was all right getting to Dún Laoghaire, but when we got there the conditions were such that they could have posted up "We do not want any tourists." There were long queues of people, young and old. There were women with children streaming up along the quayside. There were heavy showers occasionally coming down on them and they moved gradually along at a prilgrim's progress. They must have been there for two or three hours before they got in. There were two fierce-looking gentlemen in a box with uniforms on them, who would frighten anybody, refusing to give or to tell these people anything.

Now, I think that is a public disgrace. It is all right to make the excuse that the rush season was on. They all knew that. I never in my life was so ashamed of anything as I was at the conduct and conditions I saw there. They seem to have improved things a little since. Since Christmas I have paid another visit, and I intend to continue paying visits until they throw me out. The conditions were a little different from what they were earlier in the year. They now allow people to get in under the shelters. Deputies know the big awning over the railway track. There was a fairly strong wind blowing in from the Channel through the tunnel. I was just wondering how people stick that. The assistants and the porters had changed their attitude and were rather civil. Somebody in the meantime had apparently given them a good lecture. They did tell me this: "You know that the customs officials do not come out here until a certain number of people have collected." About 2,000 people had collected. They were sitting on their bags. There was a shelter there, but why could not the customs officials come out and operate by allowing those people to board the ship? If there are not enough of customs officials, then more should be put on, but people should not be kept hanging around there with children in their arms, or old people, some of them lame, with no place to rest or sit down. I think that is highly improper.

Tourists are not so particular about luxury hotels. Our hotels in the West of Ireland did excellently last year, because they are really good hotels. I know tourists who, when they come here, expect to get Irish stew. We cannot give the Americans or the French the type of food to which they are accustomed at home, and it would take us a long time to reach that pitch of perfection; but these tourists do not want what they normally have at home. They want some native product. They want comfortable beds and the ordinary amenities to which they are accustomed. They get those in the ordinary country districts here.

Some tourists have talked to me in the past about shooting. Some of them were fond of shooting and had evidently procured licences. They asked me where they would get shooting. I had to tell them quite frankly that I could not tell them, because I did not know whether it was the landlord, the tenants or the Land Commission who owned the rights. I went to the local sergeant and he said: "That place up there along the hill is owned by the land owners; the next place the Land Commission owns it and the tenants own the other part." These people could get no shooting, because they did not know where to go to get it.

Fishing is an excellent attraction, but it is not properly attended to. Lough Sheelin was an excellent trout lake 40 years ago. During the season numbers of people went down there in the past for fishing. Only last Sunday I was told by someone living beside the lake that pike have completely overrun the lake and that trout have ceased to exist. Tourist do not want pike fishing. There are no trout, and so the tourists keep away.

As far as the Department of Industry and Commerce is concerned, it did a good day's work for tourism when it insisted on clean shops and put the attendants into white coats. It might be a good thing to have the meat in the Dublin shops covered, so that the dust from the streets will not get on to it. Tourists object very strongly to that sort of thing, and they are inclined to say that we are still the "dirty Irish."

The country people are beginning to realise the value of this industry. It is to-day more valuable than the cattle industry, the sheep industry or the pig trade or, indeed, all three combined. I think it is a pity we cannot develop the tourist trade from the United States more. If that could be done it would go a good way towards solving our problems. If it were properly organised we could almost live by tourism alone.

With two bodies looking after this industry I am surprised that so many little kinks remain. One of the things I would like to see rectified is the signposts on the roads. Their present condition is a clear indication that we have many irresponsible people throughout the country. The people who remove the reflectors are doing a great deal of damage. In Northern Ireland every dangerous turn is done with reflectors, so that a motorist knows exactly where he is going and has some protection. Here reflectors are removed. I think the Tourist Board should take steps to stop that pernicious practice in order to provide safety for our tourists, who do not know our roads. As a result of that unfortunate accident on the quays here in Dublin, in which two girls on holiday here were drowned, there has been some criticism in Great Britain and some talk about the lack of safety here. I hope the bodies concerned will take the necessary steps to prevent any such unfortunate occurrence in the future.

Breanndán Mac Fheórais

Possibly most of what Deputy O'Reilly has said, as far as tourism is concerned, is true, but I do not think there is any use at this stage in blaming us for being what we are because, while this may be an attractive country at the moment for tourists, I do not think anybody can maintain that it was ever a Mecca for tourists.

The object of the Bill, the object of the contribution made by the Minister, by Deputy Cosgrave and, indeed, the object of the country as a whole, is to try to make the country tourist-conscious. By a trick of fate this country in the last few years has been singled out to be a tourist centre. Because Europe at the present time is not so attractive and Britain has cut her allowances to prospective travellers to European countries, we find ourselves to-day in the position that there are hundreds and thousands of people anxious to come here for their holidays, and the plain fact is that we are not quite ready for them. That is not the Government's fault. It is not the fault of the last Government; neither is it the fault of the people generally. It just happens to be that way. We are not ready for the windfall that has come our way. It behoves every one of us, and especially the Government, with the co-operation of the hoteliers and every section of the community, to pull our weight to try to cater for the people who will undoubtedly be attracted to our shores this year and for some years to come.

It is an astonishing fact that the tourist industry here is second only to agriculture. That is something that never occurs to the man in the street until it is pointed out to him. We are inclined to laugh at tourists. We are inclined to have but little respect for the people who come here because we regard them more or less as freaks. We do not appreciate their value.

Some of our people have had the experience of going to countries like France and Italy and coming back to tell us that they were fleeced. We are pretty new in the tourist industry. If we go hell-for-leather in trying to get all we can out of our tourists they will soon get wise to us and take their custom and their money elsewhere. There is another danger in that respect. If tourists are fleeced and if a deliberate attempt is made to put up prices, that will react on the cost of living generally through the cost of increased commodities, and there is, therefore, the possibility that the very presence of tourists here will adversely affect the cost of living for our own people. There is another danger, and it is one which the Minister for Industry and Commerce should guard against. The people in Wexford have had the experience of finding themselves short of essential foodstuffs because of an influx of visitors from some of the Welsh towns. Such commodities as bacon, ham, cigarettes, butter and so on could not be purchased over certain week-ends in Wexford town because so many people came across from Wales. Now I have no objection to their coming over here, but I would ask the Minister to try to ensure that, in a case like that, the presence of tourists will not adversely affect the people of the town where the tourists are visiting.

I would join with Deputy Cosgrave in making a plea to the Minister— possibly he has no set views on the matter—to have both the publicity and the general running of the tourist industry here under the one board. Call it Bord Fáilte, or the Tourist Board—whatever you like—publicity should not be divorced from the ordinary business of the Tourist Board in any attempt to assist the industry and to assist those who run our hotels. I think both of them should go hand in hand.

I also make this complaint. As far as publicity in the past is concerned, I have had several complaints from people, especially in Britain, with regard to the infinitesimal publicity in connection with Irish resorts and the country generally compared with the publicity that other agencies for other countries give in respect of the attractions in countries in Europe and elsewhere. The offices from which information is supposed to be available are not very largely staffed, and posters, such as are seen at railway stations, are nothing compared with similar posters advertised in other countries. Generally, the efforts in regard to publicity engaged in in Britain by the Tourist Board seem to be puny alongside the efforts that are made by Britain and by the agencies of other European countries.

In respect of this Bill I want to say that I consider it a good Bill generally, but I am sceptical as to whether or not the functions of the board, as set out in Section 5, will ever be carried out to any great extent. It is my hope—I am sure it is the hope of the Minister— that they will. I believe that the money that has been proposed is a very, very small investment for an industry which has been described as second only to the agricultural industry and which is the biggest dollar earner that this country has. I agree that it is only a start. If the sum represents, to some extent, a token in that way I suppose it will be an inducement to hoteliers and other people who are interested in the tourist industry. It would be a sort of lead to the people in general to become, as I stated in the beginning, tourist-minded and try to make tourists in this country feel that Ireland is a place worth visiting.

I want to make a few comments with regard to a few functions of the board as laid down in Section 5 but, before going on to that, I want to say that one of the most important parts—if not the most important part—of the tourist industry in this country is our hoteliers, the state of the hotels and the type of accommodation they can provide. For that reason, I would suggest to the Minister that he should bring in an amendment on the Committee Stage to provide that the hoteliers be given representation on the Tourist Board. As the Bill stands, I do not think it provides for that but I think it would help the industry generally because they are people who should know the hotel business inside out. As I have said, they represent the most important part of the tourist industry because everybody will readily admit that we have the attractions here in places of historic interest. We have lakes, rivers and mountains which usually attract visitors and which are usually reckoned to be the best scenic value in the world.

Might I also at this stage risk a stabbing remark by advocating that there should be a workers' representative in the hotel business on this board? It must be admitted by all who are in the habit of dealing with hotel workers that the hotel worker knows his business inside out. Any man conversant with the work of an hotel and who is from day to day dealing with the members of his union who are on an hotel staff knows that the hotel porter, waiter or waitress would be able to tell you more about the likes and dislikes of tourists than possibly the manager will. I throw out that suggestion to the Minister. Perhaps, he would in any case give consideration to the appointment of a workers' representative on the Tourist Board.

There are just a few matters of detail which I propose to expand on the Committee Stage but, perhaps, it would be no harm to mention them now. I give them for what they are worth, qualifying my remarks by saying that I have gone to the trouble of interviewing some hotel people, who have given me this information. One of their objections is that those people who come from time to time to inspect hotels for the purpose of grading them have no experience in hotel work and management. Most of them—I do not question their competency in respect of the work for which they are trained— were originally trained in domestic economy. As students of domestic economy, they will have a certain knowledge of kitchen management, cooking and things like that. As far as hotel management is concerned, they would not have the experience or the knowledge that any person who had worked in an hotel would have for such a job.

There is also the complaint that these hotel inspectors come at inconvenient times. Possibly it is right to come at inconvenient times to test the efficiency of the staff and to catch the hotel on the wrong foot, if you like, to see in what state the hotel is. My complaint, however, is that overzealous inspectors come at some ridiculous hours of the day, between 9.30 and 10 a.m., when the bedclothes are thrown down at the end of the bed, and when the hotel is rather topsy turvy as you would expect. Neither the management of the hotel nor the hotel staff has the time to be answering questions or showing these visitors around, because it is the busiest time of the day.

I would suggest to the Tourist Board, through the Minister, that these inspectors endeavour to conduct their inspections at some other hour. I should also like to see the Tourist Board give a report on the inspections to the hotel owners or management. It is not this year or last year that I have heard this complaint but over the years I have heard the complaint that these inspectors come to the hotels look around, make a few comment and then go away. Subsequently, word is received by the hotel manager or proprietor that the grade is A, B, C or D. If it happens to be B or C, no report is given to the hotel management and there is no advice as to how the hotel could be managed with a view to getting it a better grade. I would suggest that the Tourist Board consider sending a copy of the inspector's report back to the hotel as soon as it is available.

With regard to the advancement of either grants or loans to the hotels for the improvement of accommodation, I should like the Minister to try to see also that this money is made available during the off season, the slack season—that is, between October and December. He may reply to the effect that they may carry out these improvements or renovations during October or March, but I think that the board should make an effort to see that it is available for that particular time because as everyone will appreciate it is only then, during the slack season, that hotels can carry out any big scheme of reconstruction or renovation.

I would like also to advocate that the Tourist Board have an architect, a man who has made a special study of hotel construction, who would be available to advise those who intended to enlarge or reconstruct their premises. Many of the hotels in this country were not built as hotels but as ordinary dwelling houses and when the proprietor discovered that he could make a go of the hotel business he added a room here, another room there and then started to build on top of that. The result is that we have in this country hotels that look very crooked and very funny indeed. It would not be easy to reconstruct many of our hotels especially in the old towns. I have in mind my own town. The Minister and many members of the House know it and I do not think that they could visualise any artistic improvements in our hotels. They are good hotels all right, but if extensions or renovations were to be carried out the proprietor would benefit by the advice of the board's architect if he were a man who had made a study of that type of building.

I wish to refer to some of the reports which I have only just scanned to-day. I do not know whether the Minister has responsibility or not—he had not responsibility for the mission to which I referred to-day—but why send old men to America? I mean no reflection on their age or ability, but we have young men who have made hotel management their profession. Many good men come from Shannon Airport and from hotels in Dublin who have taken up the hotel business as a career. If in future a mission is to go to America I would suggest that the majority representation should be men under 35 or 40. At least let them be young men. I do not know whether the Tourist Board could help in this respect or not, but we have young men who have taken up the hotel business as a career and are trained in that business and, consequently, I suppose one can assume that they are trained in the tourist business.

As far as general hotel work is concerned the Minister for Education should endeavour, with the cooperation of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, to set up in the big provincial centres or to have set up by the county vocational education committee classes for those who are engaged or who intend to engage in the hotel business as waiters, cooks, chefs, barmen or anything else.

I think that the Minister made an excellent contribution here to-day when he talked about the general look of the country as it appears to a tourist. We should start at the starting place. The main bulk of the visitors—I should say all the visitors—who come into this country come to—I will mention the most important first—Rosslare, Dún Laoghaire, Cobh or Shannon, and I think we should make a big effort to make those places attractive in appearance. I cannot say that they are attractive in appearance. Shannon and Dublin airports are attractive by reason of the fact that they have been recently constructed, but I do not think that one could say the same for Rosslare or the approaches to the town of Wexford. I do not think I would be impressed if I came to Rosslare for the first time and drove into the town of Wexford because—the Minister mentioned this aspect—we have so many derelict sites at the entrance to the town that the tourist would be inclined to shudder. The corporation have responsibility and the county council may have some responsibility, but if the Tourist Board or the Department of Industry and Commerce could by means of financial encouragement or even ordinary encouragement induce them to clear up those derelict sites and make the approach to these towns attractive, it would go a long way towards making the country attractive to tourists.

I suppose that this is one of the most badly sign-posted countries in the world. As a public representative I have to travel around County Wexford a good deal, and more so during election times, and as often as I have gone to South County Wexford I have been lost more often than Mr. Christenberry was in the whole country merely because the place is not sign-posted. We are peculiar in County Wexford in having too many roads. If the Tourist Board fulfilled one of their functions by inducing the Automobile Association, the R.I.A.C. or the local authority to provide many more sign-posts where they are needed, the tourist and traveller would not feel so frustrated as they must be at the present time. If a tourist comes into Rosslare Harbour and wants to go to Cork by road, I certainly do not envy him because to get from Rosslare to New Ross would take about a fortnight, especially if he were driving in the dark.

While I am on the subject of Rosslare might I mention that it is the principal port through which tourists bring their cars into the country? About 75 per cent. of the tourist cars coming into the country come through Rosslare. An important point is—the Minister may possibly have heard of it from Rosslare people before—that each car has to be transported on a railway wagon for 100 yards and then travel up over a crooked road for another quarter of a mile, and then the tourist gets it. How much better it would be if the tourist could get off the boat and step into his car on the pier, and drive off wherever he wants to go? There is a roadway or street along the pier that could be used for the transport of cars direct from the boat to the main road.

In this country and in the hotels there is not half enough information for the tourist who comes to the country. He has not the slightest idea of where he may find some place of interest, a place to fish or a place to amuse himself generally. Again, the reason is that we are not tourist-conscious and do not avail of the opportunities which present themselves to us in the tourist business. In the first place we have not guides. I do not say that we would have a lot of work for guides but there are many places in this country that need to be described to the tourist, especially the Americans who will give you all the money they can, if you show them some place and persuade them that their mother, grandmother or some of their relations lived there. There are many opportunities for guides because there are so many places of interest in the country and so many people anxious to hear about them.

With regard to the portion of the Bill which deals with the granting of licences for hotels and holiday camps, I do not know whether it is desirable that there should be any relaxation of the licensing laws even to facilitate tourists. I think the bona fide racket, as one might call it, is being too much exploited. The bona fide traveller may be served with intoxicating liquor up to 12 o'clock but the local man has to go out at ten, and I rather imagine that if there was a flat time for closing, a compromise between 10 p.m. and 12 midnight, it would be more satisfactory, because, while the visitor can go into a public-house or an hotel for a drink and can stay there until midnight, his friend who lives in the town must get out at 10 p.m., so that there is confusion and a certain sense of frustration on the part of the local man. However, all these things can be discussed on the Committee Stage.

I should like to congratulate the Minister on the introduction of this Bill, to congratulate the former Parliamentary Secretary and the members of all the missions which went to the United States, because, between them, they have given a fillip to the tourist industry which will have the effect, as I hope and believe, of making this country tourist-conscious and bringing so many much-needed dollars and business generally into the country.

Dr. ffrench-O'Carroll

I should like to congratulate the Minister on the introduction of this very comprehensive Bill in so short a time since the new Government came into office. It is a Bill which does about everything the Government could possibly do to help the tourist industry, and if the hoteliers, with the assistance given under this Bill, cannot make good business for themselves and for the country, I do not think it will be the Government's fault. The Bill provides for a special board to deal with publicity. We here apparently have been living in rather glorious isolation in the matter of publicity, and we have only wakened up to the fact that, from the tourist point of view, people in America and outside the country generally know very little about this country and its tourist facilities.

I have spoken to a number of hoteliers over the past few months and they all stressed the importance of this matter of publicity. One thing which I find very interesting is the fact that in the Bill the Minister has gone much further and has provided much more money than many of these many experienced hoteliers expected would be made available or thought, in the first instance, necessary. The sum to be expended should give a very good return. I should imagine that there is very little known of Ireland's tourist facilities in the United States, but, through the various bureaux abroad and through the dissemination of publicity within the country, once the tourist has arrived here very good results will accrue for the whole industry.

The tourist usually came to this country picturing Ireland as a land with plenty of food and very beautiful scenery. On arriving here, the first thing he found very often was that the weather was bad. He looked out of the window of his hotel on a wet day, not knowing how to use his time. The facilities were not there and the publicity was not there to enable him to know how to get around and see the many very wonderful traditional things in our history, the various sights and so on, which he should have been able to see, so that this money to be spent on publicity will bring tremendous advantages from the tourist point of view.

I think the question of our ports and landing facilities is frightfully important. It is practically the most urgent thing to be dealt with under this Bill. We are all ashamed—everyone here admits it—of our ports—not only of their appearance but the landing facilities available, with the queueing that takes place, the delays involved and the fact that at most of them a motor car cannot be landed at all. That is a very great disadvantage and something that should be looked into right away, because the modern tourist, the wealthy tourist, the man whom we want to attract here, whether he comes from the United States, from England or from the Continent, is going to bring a car with him, especially when he realises that he is coming to a country whose attractions are scattered. If he is coming here for fishing, shooting or hunting, he will need to travel from one county to another, so the fact that his car cannot be landed at most of our ports is a very great disadvantage. At Cobh, you cannot land a car at all, and the same applies to Dún Laoghaire, so that the question of port facilities is one of the most urgent matters to be attended to for the coming season.

Under other sections of the Bill, there is provision for the giving of grants, loans, technical assistance and help of various kinds to hoteliers. I feel that the questions of the general standard of our hotels and how this money is to be used are tremendously important. It would be a very great pity if these grants and loans were used to encourage the building of a large number of luxury hotels throughout the country. This is a problem which we have to face very seriously. If we are going to build extra hotel accommodation at high cost, say, at a couple of thousand pounds per room, that expenditure is going to be reflected in our tariffs, and it is on our future tariffs that the success of this industry is going to depend to a very great extent.

I notice in the Bill that hotels with accommodation for over 20 people are particularly mentioned. I do not mind the setting of a certain standard of size, but we are trying to develop an Irish tradition and an Irish style in the hotel industry, and we should try to keep outside the cities, and, to a certain extent, even in the cities, to the moderate-sized hotel, with the personal touch, the hotel which is proprietor run. That is the type of hotel which is the backbone of the industry on the Continent and elsewhere. It is the type of hotel where you get good value, good service and well-cooked food. It would be a tragedy if an effort were to be made either to Americanise or Europeanise our cooking, or if anything were done to try to force our hotels up to a foreign standard. So far as food is concerned, we should be able to create a standard of good Irish cooking and we should be proud of it. We should not try to copy French or American cooking, except as a speciality. For the basis of our catering and the menus in our hotels we should be able to develop an Irish style of cooking and we should keep to that. I agree with Deputies who have said that when American or Continental visitors come here what they want is Irish food and, therefore, it is up to us to give them Irish dishes and to see that they are properly cooked.

Another question is that of cleanliness. Many of our country and city hotels are far below the standard of cleanliness which is absolutely essential to an efficiently run tourist industry. On the question of technical advice and assistance under this Bill, the board can be of tremendous help. I hope it will be able to guide our hoteliers to learn right at the start that, if tourism is to be a big business, it must be on the basis of a big turnover with a small margin of profit.

We are a young country so far as business is concerned and I feel that many of the business opportunities we have had so far have been somewhat spoilt by people seeking too big a margin of profit from the start. The money being provided may attract people to Ireland—I am sure it will— but the important thing in the years ahead is whether they will come back or not. They will not come back if, when conditions are more normal again, they can get cheaper accommodation on the Continent. In our whole approach to the enlarging, extension and modernisation of our hotels, we should encourage our hoteliers to do that economically. There is no reason why we should not provide the plumbing, heating and other modern amenities, but that can be done without a good deal of the tiles, fittings, mahogany and expensive furniture. Many hotel rooms can be very adequately equipped by very simple and cheap built-in furniture, providing better accommodation than most of the mass-produced furniture and making the running and the cleaning of the rooms much easier. All this will be reflected in our costs.

I would like to know from the Minister what steps he is going to take to see that our tourist industry will not be affected by overcharge. We are going to give this money out to this industry. I have the Tourist Board Official List for 1952 here. I have the charges in front of me and I notice in little ways here and there all sorts of alterations in the classification which mean all the time gradually rising costs. Formerly it was the custom to charge a high season rate from June to September and on certain Bank Holidays. I notice in looking through this now that in many cases "sports fixtures" are put in as an occasion for the high tariff. There is not one day that there is not a sports fixture somewhere and if a man arrives in Dublin and seeks accommodation late at night he may be told by some hotelier who wants to make the maximum amount: "There is a sports fixture on and we are charging the high season tariff." Steps will have to be taken to see that this industry is not spoilt by overcharging.

There is the very important question of licensing. Perhaps it is an unfair allegation to make, but I think the hotels of this country have completely ruined and destroyed the use of wines in hotels by the very high prices they charge. It seems to me that the licensing laws at present, whatever they are, do not control the price of wines. Hotels are allowed to buy and rebottle wines and charge in some cases 100 per cent. or more profit on them. If this industry is to mean something to our country, these points must be considered very carefully.

I am very glad to see the return of grading. I am sorry it was ever dropped, and I hope that, in future, the hotels will be graded much more strictly than before. I noticed in the past that a hotel which was described as Grade A apparently reached that classification on certain amenities, and because it reached that classification it was allowed to charge a certain figure for its luncheons, dinners and other meals, but the grading never laid down what it should provide for that charge. I suggest to the Minister that that is something which should be taken into account very seriously when grading is enforced again. It is not very much satisfaction to you if you go into a Grade A hotel and sit in luxury accommodation, but get a thoroughly bad and inadequate meal, and when you are charged the top rate you are informed that they are entitled to charge it as a Grade A hotel. The grading should take into account the food provided, the number of courses and the type of meals.

I am making these criticisms only because I want this to be a success from the start. I think it is a wonderful opportunity, and I hope hoteliers will avail themselves of it. In fact, I am sure they will, and certainly if the hotel industry does not prosper in this country it will not be the fault of the Government.

Mr. Morrissey

I would like to say at the outset that I welcome this Bill and, with one grave exception, I have not very much criticism to offer to it. That criticism of mine is one that has been voiced already by my colleague, Deputy Cosgrave—it is in relation to having more than one board. I think that the Minister is making a grave mistake in creating a third board under this Bill, and I do not believe that any convincing reasons can be advanced for that. It is my opinion—it was also the opinion of those inside the country and those whose advice from outside was sought—that we should have but one board.

We certainly require a first-class advertising organisation or department, but that could be a department of the Irish Tourist Board. To have three boards operating must lead inevitably to confusion and overlapping and to very heavily increased administrative expenses. We are to have one board to deal with publicity, trying to induce or entice visitors to come here from abroad; and when they reply to these advertisements they will get a reply back from the Publicity Board referring them to the Tourist Board for particulars of accommodation and whatever other information they may require. I would appeal to the Minister to reconsider this whole question of having more than one board. From my knowledge of the tourist industry over the last few years, I believe that no convincing case can be advanced for more than one board.

The criticism that has been offered already by Deputies O'Reilly and Corish and to some extent by Deputy ffrench-O'Carroll, has been in relation to matters that require attention but which are or should be entirely outside the functions of a tourist board. They are matters which call more for the attention of the local authority. I agree that our sign-posting is something we have no reason to be proud of but we should not leave it to the Automobile Association to do that job for us. Even so, although the sign-posting may be done badly at present, if it were not for the Automobile Association we would probably have no sign-posting at all.

Deputies are still inclined to talk as if there had been no advance and no improvement in facilities for tourists. I have travelled probably as widely as anyone in this country and I know as well as anyone else that in some parts there are certain hotels which are no credit, but on the other hand it is only right to say that there has been a very decided improvement in the hotels generally all over the country.

It must be remembered that many of these improvements were carried out under grave difficulties, and it must also be remembered that, because of shortages of material and the shortage of skilled building workers, it was only within recent times that hotels could get permission to engage in any sort of heavy structural alteration or additions to their premises. I feel that very considerable progress has been made. We have many hotels in this country which can compare more than favourably with the general run of hotels in most other countries. Deputies, and still more so, members of the public, are inclined to compare the average hotel in this country, not with the average hotel in some other country, but with the Waldorf Astoria in New York or with some other elaborate hotel in Paris or London. As I said already, the average hotel in this country can compare very favourably with the average hotel in every other country. As a matter of fact one of the statements made to me by Mr. Christenberry, the head of the American Mission who came over here, was that he and his colleagues had been pleasantly surprised to find that some of the smaller hotels and guest houses in this country could compare most favourably with the hotels and guest houses of similar standards even in America.

Deputy Dr. ffrench-O'Carroll made a reference to hotel charges. I suppose the costs for those who operate hotels have increased as much as the costs for those who operate any other sort of business. I doubt if the proportionate increase in hotel charges is any greater than the proportionate increase in any other charges in this country as against pre-war days. I certainly know that hotel charges in this country, taking standard for standard, the standard of food and the standard of service, are lower than those in Great Britain or in most of the European countries. I think Deputies will find that this is quite true.

Mr. Desmond

I doubt that.

Mr. Morrissey

If the Deputy has occasion to go abroad, either to Great Britain or to any continental country, I feel that he will find that what I have said is quite true.

Quite a number of points which I had intended to make have already been made. However, there is one aspect of this whole tourist industry which I want to put as strongly as I possibly can to the House and to the Minister. We want something more than just the fair name of Ireland to bring tourists here and to bring them back again. We can get, and will get, a big influx of tourists at the peak season, but our problem, which is the problem of most countries, is to get off-season tourists, to attract people here in the off-peak periods, so to speak. This country could, in my opinion, within a comparatively short time and for a comparatively small expenditure of money, be made a tremendous attraction for the best type of tourist—the tourist who is less exacting than the average tourist who comes here now, the tourist whose requirements are reasonable in relation to either accommodation or food, the tourist who will come back again and again year after year, and the tourist who is responsible for giving more employment than the average type of tourist. I refer to the sportsman type. We have never attempted to exploit our fishing, shooting and hunting.

Dr. ffrench-O'Carroll

Fishermen will eat anything.

Mr. Morrissey

I am trying to stress that. I feel that in our fishing, shooting and hunting amenities we have something we can sell. With the exception of the Irish-American, I doubt if we have anything to offer the ordinary American tourist coming to this country. The inland salmon and trout fishing and even the coarse fishing in this country could be responsible for bringing us an enormous number of tourists who would come back year after year and bring others with them. However, the rivers and the lakes in this country have been and are being seandalously neglected. There is no question whatever about that. We have some remarkably beautiful stretches of water in this country, vast expanses like Lough Derg, but—except for a few weeks when the mayfly is hopping about—you could not get a trout out of them for 11 months of the year. Deputy M. O'Reilly mentioned Lough Sheelin. What he said in relation that Lough is true of practically every lake in the Midlands in this country. There is no money worth talking about set aside by this Government for the stocking or protecting of the inland fisheries of this country. It was certainly my intention, had I remained in the Department of Industry and Commerce and had the responsibility for bringing this measure before the House been mine, that a considerable sum of money provided for tourism under this Bill would be earmarked for the proper protection and stocking of the lakes in this country. We have a system of protection known as boards of conservators. They can employ very few people and they have not the funds at their disposal even to pay those they do employ.

I have not any knowledge or experience of shooting in this country but I have gone to the trouble of discussing the matter with people who do know something about it. I understand that, through neglect and for other reasons, shooting in this country is rather poor except in certain areas but I am assured that, within a reasonable time, it could be very much improved.

I will leave the question of hunting to be discussed by those Deputies who are better equipped with the knowledge to deal with it than I, but I think it is something on which we ought to concentrate. I want to say this and, of course, like a lot of other things I say I will be misunderstood and misrepresented, but no matter. For goodness' sake do not let us be codding ourselves by exaggerating the importance of the American tourist to this country. It is all nonsense. But we can bring dollars, and, in my opinion a substantial quantity of dollars, particularly nowadays when the cost of trans-Atlantic flights has been reduced to a comparatively reasonable figure, by attracting those who have only a fortnight or three weeks at their disposal to come to this country. I believe we could bring a considerable number of our own people back from America for a holiday here if they are approached in the right way in America. These are the type of Americans that we want, and they are the only type we are likely to get.

Let us face up to this, that with the attractions we have here for the ordinary wealthy American doing Europe, we cannot compete with Nice, Paris and Monte Carlo, and they will not come here except for a very short stay. It is no exaggeration to say that if our salmon fisheries were properly protected, our rivers properly stocked, we could attract a fairly considerable number of wealthy American sportsmen over here for salmon fishing, in addition to attracting our own people here. That, in my opinion, should be one of our easiest tasks. We have very big advantages. We have in America, if we like to make use of them, readymade organisations that could be turned into tourist agencies for the purpose of getting Irish people to come here. I refer to the various Irish societies and communities that are spread throughout the whole of the States. I do believe that that is an aspect of the American tourist traffic, and perhaps the only one, that is worth developing.

In passing, may I say there is one omission from this Bill that I do not understand? I hope it is only an oversight, or if it is not, I would like to get some reason for it. I notice there is no reference to or provision made for restaurants whether in regard to being subject to inspection or enjoying the privileges of the Bill. I think that is an omission that the Minister might have considered. It must be remembered that a very considerable number of our tourists will be frequenting our restaurants. Quite a number of them will be moving through the country having odd meals in restaurants and not in hotels; and a number of them will be staying in hotels, having bed and breakfast and having the remainder of their meals out. It is important that there should be a proper grading system in relation to restaurants and that these restaurants should not merely be subject to inspection and grading but they should be brought into the Bill to enable them to take advantage of the financial provisions that are there if they want to do so.

There is another aspect of the matter which I would like the Minister to consider. I know it is difficult but I would ask him to make a supreme effort to attract, particularly into the publicity department if he can get them, people who have years of experience in the tourist business. I know that there are Irishmen abroad who have obtained invaluable experience in the working of the tourist trade, in the tourist and travel agencies and in regard to tourist publicity, whose services would be of immense value to us.

That is not to be taken as in any way whatever casting any reflection upon the existing staffs of the Tourist Board or the Tourist Association. Having regard to the way in which their activities were limited by a shortage of money, they have put up a very creditable performance indeed. When Deputies are inclined to compare in regard to type and volume our publicity as against that of other countries, Deputies ought to remember that up to now, in so far as the Tourist Board was concerned, they were limited by statute to, I think, £40,000, and £40,000 in relation to an industry like this was just a drop in the bucket; so I think in fairness to the Tourist Board that ought to be said. In fairness to the Tourist Association it ought to be said also that they were limited by the amount of money which they could extract from the various local authorities in the country and having regard to the difficulties under which they tried to carry out their work they did not do too badly at all.

Having said that, let me say this, that I hope that the type of publicity that we had, the periodicals and folders, and so on, will be all scrapped and that, as we are at long last facing up in a realistic way to the value of this industry and are prepared to put something like an appropriate sum into the building up of an organisation worthy to deal with the tourist traffic, we will design and devise something more worthy of the country from the publicity point of view.

May I say that I agree entirely with what was said about not spending any of our money on luxury hotels? We get a lot of advice from people at home. A lot of Americans were coming over here two, three and four years ago, telling me about the huge volume of American tourists that we should be getting and finding themselves very dissatisfied with me that I was not prepared to go ahead right away and build a 400-bedroomed hotel in the City of Dublin. I felt that I had to ask that if we were going to build a 400-bedroomed hotel in the City of Dublin what guarantee we would have that the Americans would keep them filled for us?

I also agree with Deputy ffrench-O'Carroll and one or two others who spoke about food. I think that too many of our hotels who have not the experience, the staff, the skill or the technique to do it, try to put before their guests continental and English dishes. I believe that the average tourist who comes here from abroad comes to see Ireland and to study the habits, manners, customs and, perhaps, the food of the Irish people. I know that if I am fortunate enough to find myself on the Continent I do not want a Frenchman trying to put down before me a plate of bacon and cabbage, because I know he could not do it as well as it can be done at home. Incidentally, when the Christenberry team was on tour in this country, at least one proprietor had the courage to set down before the Christenberry team of American experts a purely Irish dinner, the same as we would get in the average Irish house in this country, together with a bottle of Guinness.

Mr. Christenberry and his colleagues told me it was the most enjoyable meal that they got during the whole of their tour. They also told me it was their opinion that if most of our hotels, particularly throughout the provinces, would try to give that type of food to the average visitor to this country, they would save themselves a whole lot of worry and headaches in trying to make out French menus and would probably give more satisfaction and less indigestion to their guests.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy move the Adjournment?

Mr. Morrissey

In conclusion, may I say I welcome the Bill apart from the one matter to which I take grave exception and express the hope that the Minister will have that examined again.

Mr. A. Byrne

I move the Adjournment of the debate.

Debate adjourned.