The subject matter of this Estimate is a rather controversial one. There are as many views on wireless broadcasting and on Radio Éireann as there are Deputies in the House. Big differences exist inside the various political Parties with regard to the type of programmes that should be presented on the radio, and many Deputies have strong feelings with regard to particular programmes; but it is essential that an Estimate such as this should be discussed, as it is being discussed, to a great extent, in a non-Party atmosphere. It would be a very bad thing to have a Party lineup in regard to it and I am glad to see that, so far, praise and criticism have come in equal proportions from both sides of the House. Deputies are pretty well representative of all sections and, as such, they should all be free, irrespective of the Party whips, to express their views on wireless broadcasting and on the conduct and operation of Radio Éireann generally. I feel that there is an all-round improvement in the broadcasts from Radio Éireann, and I hope this improvement will be maintained.
With regard to propaganda on Partition, there has been a good deal of talk in recent years about the great use that could be made of a short-wave radio station to expose the evils of Partition and for general propaganda purposes in that regard. While I am all for a strong line on the question of Partition, I feel that, when we have one means at our disposal, our present wavelength, we should make more use of it than we do for propaganda in connection with Partition. There is no use in Deputies saying that, if we had a short-wave station going, we could do miracles about exposing the evils of Partition. The point is that, poor as the available facilities may be, we make very little use of them for this purpose, and any case that has been made for the short-wave station has not been strengthenedby the example set so far in the use of the wavelength we have.
Deputy O'Donnell last night made what I think is a pretty sound suggestion, that, if we have news on Partition to give to the American public, a good way of putting it across would be to have records of statements and discussions sent to some group in America from whom we could buy time for their broadcasting on the transmission system of some American station. Even a limited period on one of these transmitters might be of more use, as Deputy O'Donnell stated, than beaming long harangues from a short-wave station. I am sure there is no use in my labouring the point as no doubt the Minister himself will look into it.
The next matter I should like to mention is the method by which news is presented. I would say that if one listens to a news broadcast from Radio Éireann and then listens to a news broadcast from the B.B.C., it is very hard at times to distinguish from which station the news is actually coming. It is only when one comes to the tail end of the announcements and gets some details of what happened in Cork last week or in Donegal this week, that one can be sure that it is an Irish news broadcast. What I am principally interested in in this connection is the slant given to the news items. Reuter is generally the source of information for news broadcast from the B.B.C. but the news as broadcast by the B.B.C. has always a slant, in my opinion, that will suit British taste. If anything goes wrong in some part of the world in which Britain is interested, you may be sure that in the presentation of that news item by the B.B.C. to the British people if the British position is not too healthy, so far as the news is concerned, the best side will be put out.
I do not see any reason in the world why we, in our broadcast services, should adopt the same kind of presentation—in other words, accept the slant given by the B.B.C. in its presentation of the news. There are many countries at the present time with whichmany of us here have great sympathy in their aspirations for freedom, and I do not like to hear on our broadcasting services a slant given, as it has been given on many occasions, in favour of what may be described as the aggressor in many cases, the British. Consequently, I should like if we had a fresher approach. Let us get a more neutral approach on the question of news items. There is no need to tamper at all with the news itself. That would be a terrible thing to do. There is no need to suppress news, either, but at any rate let it go out in such a way that the public will be able to judge for themselves who is wrong and who is right in whatever particular episode or incident is under review.
Another sore point arises in connection with the broadcasting of plays from Radio Éireann. I do not want to say too much on this matter in this House because one has to remember that everything one says here is recorded for all time, and that can have its disadvantages on certain occasions. I, however, want to go on record as saying that the question of censorship in Radio Éireann is of very great concern to the general public. There are in this country quite a number of people who would impose the heavy hand of censorship on a lot of items, reviews, plays, etc., that are at present coming across from Radio Éireann. I do hope that the Minister and his Department will not allow themselves to be intimidated by this cranky, touchy, squeamish section of the community. I dislike having to say it, in one way, but I think it should be said that we have quite a number of very squeamish people in this country who would like to pretend to the world that we are different from every other nation. There are a lot of people in this country who would like to paint the picture that we are just a little island of saints and scholars, but although we may have that record or merited that description in the past, it would be well to remind some of these people, so far as the saints and scholars are concerned, that the saints were not all scholars and the scholars were not all saints.
I hope the Minister will not allowhimself or his Department to be intimidated and as a result that we shall not have the production merely of insipid plays on the wireless suitable only to the outlook of a bunch of holy Marys. There are plays at times that may shock people but these plays were written, to my mind—at any rate some of them were written—for the purpose of shocking the people into a sense of reality. We have a lot of people here who lead very sheltered lives and they are horrified if, in listening to the wireless, they hear that there are people in the country who just do not have things as easy as themselves. Some people are horrified when they hear on the wireless that there are drunkards, or even worse, in Ireland and they protest immediately that plays where drunkenness is exposed, are not suitable for the general public to listen to. I think that drunkenness and things like it are social evils and you cannot deal with social evils unless they are shown up. One of the best possible ways of showing them up is to have the spotlight of publicity on them, to let people know these things happen.
One of the purposes for which these plays are written is to bring home to sheltered sections of the community that some unfortunates are not as well off as themselves. If these sheltered sections see through plays and books that things are not all well with the rest of the community, then they may be shocked into taking action to improve conditions. If we have these bad conditions in existence, it merely means that there is something wrong in our social system and these plays are a great help in showing up the weaknesses in our social system. As a result of such plays, public consciousness is awakened and something may be done about it. That is one of the reasons why the Minister should insist that plays that are thought-provoking, intelligent and awaken public interest, even though at times they may sound rather rude to sheltered people, must be allowed to be broadcast. If we are going to have a blanket of censorship imposed on us, then it is very easy for a person to turn the knob of the wireless and listen in to the B.B.C. It is, therefore, waste of time for the criticsI have mentioned to try to put across only one particular type of play.
With regard to a number of debates that have been broadcast, very seldom have I the opportunity or the time at my disposal to listen to them but I have on occasions listened to discusssions on various subjects. I do not want to be too critical but I had the feeling sometimes that the discussion was too pat, too slick and too full of old clichés.
As a matter of fact, all the contributions that I heard were of the most nauseating type from the point of view of backbone and so on. If people are allowed to talk and discuss matters on the wireless let them come out strongly if they so desire. I do not know whether the discussions are pre-arranged affairs or not—I hope they are not—but if some people have strong views on particular matters I think they should be allowed to express them, no matter whom they may hurt. Otherwise there is no benefit whatever in having these discussions.
The idea of these discussions is to get people to think for themselves and to realise that there are other ways of life and other countries outside Ireland. If we accept the position that only a few people in this country are to be allowed to think and to think for everybody else that will be a bad day for us. The more matters of a controversial nature are discussed on the wireless the better for the people as a whole. Some critics in this country must not have a very good opinion of the moral fibre and the intelligence of the Irish people if they insist at all times on protecting them. It would seem as if we cannot trust them outside the door.
The extraordinary thing about it is that the cream of our population, the boys and girls who leave this country every year, are exposed to all the evils that these so-called critics would prevent them from listening to on the wireless broadcasting system and, instead of facing the conditions in Great Britain and America and other places with their eyes open and being aware of the evils and pitfalls that await them, they go like lambs to theslaughter. If we are going to have a high wall erected around the country to shelter the few old decrepits that are left in it, I will not be a party to supporting any such move, whether through Radio Éireann or through censorship of other types.
I read the Minister's statement and I noticed that he said that the percentage of those who listened in to the cultural and educational programmes is not unsatisfactory. He thinks there is a tremendous interest in them. He did not disclose what the percentage is, but said that it is not unsatisfactory. I wonder who decides that it is not unsatisfactory. Has the Minister the deciding voice as to what is satisfactory or what is not? That is a very big decision to take and certainly the director of broadcasting and his staff are not entitled to take on themselves the position of judge as to what is or is not a satisfactory position with regard to those who listen in to the cultural and educational programmes and the people who are fond of light music.
The Minister went on to say that he was convinced that the future of An Tóstal and all Irish festivals depended on being able to offer the outside world an international forum for music and drama. I have no criticism to offer on that. I should like to say, however, that we should put first things first. The Minister and the director of Radio Éireann have a difficult task, in the broadcasting hours at their disposal, to balance what we describe as light entertainment and cultural and educational programmes. It is a matter on which it will be very hard to satisfy the entire listening public. As a matter of fact, it would be impossible. If the Minister leans too much in one direction to meet the popular demand for light music and light programmes, then he brings down criticism on himself from those who are interested in symphony concerts. I can see that he is in a very awkward position.
The reason I draw attention to his remarks about having a forum here for music and drama so as to attract foreigners is that I want to get thisclear. Supposing people come here from Austria and elsewhere and they attend a symphony concert in Dublin. When they find 50 per cent, of the orchestra is from their own country and they see Johnnie So-and-So from Vienna playing in it, they will say to themselves: "This Tóstal affair we understood was to show us Irish-Ireland or Ireland at home: yet we have some of our own pals playing in the orchestra in an Irish programme." The difficulty we are up against is that to a great extent we are trying to copy other nations in everything that is being done to-day. We are trying to do in a few years what possibly would take generations to bring about. If we are to get people to take an interest in what I might describe as heavy music surely that will not happen overnight. Surely we are not going to get the adult population, whose main interest is listening to jazz and American music, to change their views.
Therefore, instead of tackling the problem from the Dublin point of view, I want to get the Minister to consider this. There is only one way you can get this type of education across and that is by getting at the youth. If you train them to appreciate good music, then they will not forget it all their lives. It is much better to postpone the hope of success until the boys and girls between ten and 15 grow up. There is one way of training these boys and girls and that is by having a wireless set in every school in Ireland. It is not, perhaps, relevant to this Estimate, but it would be interesting to know how many schools in this country have a wireless set.
I would like to add my voice to that of others in asking the Minister to get into serious discussion with his colleague, the Minister for Education, and to explore the possibility of having installed in every school in rural Ireland a wireless set. Suitable programmes, both musical and otherwise, could be prepared so that youth at the age when they can absorb good music will be trained to appreciate good music and good programmes. That would be a more practicable way of making the public music-conscious than talking about symphony concerts inDublin that will be broadcast occasionally. As far as the listening public with whom I am familiar are concerned, very few listen to them.
I do not want to be taken as trying to curtail the enjoyment of those who are anxious to listen to symphony concerts, but I would like a chance to be given to the younger people to get that training which would enable them to appreciate those programmes at a later stage.
I think the ground has been covered already but I want to mention a matter in connection with television. I think the Minister in his statement said that television was inevitable. Now that, to my mind, is an extraordinary way of describing what is one of the greatest benefits to mankind in recent years. I was rather disappointed by the spirit of his approach to television because so far he has shown himself to be a man of vision and one with a certain amount of courage in criticism. He can correct me if I have quoted him wrongly but I think he said that the coming of television was as inevitable as the coming of the motor-car. If that is his view and if we start to argue that logically it would follow that, when the first tin lizzy came round the corner in this country, the people should have put off buying that until they could purchase the latest Hudson, the latest Ford Consul or Ford Zephyr.
Look at the tremendous improvements which have taken place all down the line in the assembly, making and planning of the motor-car but that did not prevent people buying the motor-car when it came out because it was beneficial. There will be improvements of a technical nature in television but if we take the initial step of preparing an estimate of what it would cost it would not mean that the television plant or installations would have to be scrapped if improvements were to take place. It would only mean adjustments and changes in the installations. It is the recorded opinion of experts on television that adjustments and so forth can be made and it would not mean a complete scrapping of the television installations.
Are we waiting until the thing is going to be absolutely perfect? Have we any guarantee that it is going to be perfect? Every country in the world has television. Are we waiting in the hope of getting television as cheaply as possible? Seeing that we have such progressive views in many lines and choose to spend money rather lavishly on other developments, I think we should not hesitate at all to go ahead and explore the possibilities of putting television into operation within a very short space of time.
I am not at all enamoured of the suggestion of co-operation with the Government of the Six Countries on the question of a television station. If some of the Deputies who made that suggestion sat back and thought for a moment they would discover that earlier in their speeches they mentioned that one of the advantages of a short-wave radio station was to beam to America and elsewhere the terrible evils of Partition. It would be thought a comical position to have Radio Éireann broadcasting the evils of Partition on the short-wave station while at the same time you had the two Governments setting up a television station here to broadcast unanimous approval. I do not think it would be practicable. It would not work out. I should much prefer that the Minister and the Department would go ahead and explore the possibilities of bringing television to this country as soon as possible. I will finish by asking the Minister to show the same courage in tackling television as he has shown in tackling other pretty knotty problems in regard to the Department for which he is responsible.