I move the amendment in my name and in the names of Deputies Gearóid Mac Pharthaláin and Blaney:—
To delete all words from and including "forthwith", in line 3, down to the end of the motion, and substitute "make further and better provision for the solution of this problem".
I was pointing out to the House during the debate on this motion that I felt the movers of the motion were agitated by the failure of the Land Commission and the law of the State, in so far as it went, to relieve the land slum problem. The amendment is to delete certain words after the word "forthwith" in the motion and the motion would then read:—
"That, in order to relieve the acute congestion which exists in rural areas in the State, particularly in the West of Ireland, Dáil Éireann is of opinion that the Government should forthwith make further and better provision for the solution of this problem."
I tabled the amendment, Sir, because I thought I would be able to convince Deputy McQuillan that his motion as it stands on the Order Paper, whatever good intentions may be behind it, is asking for something that is already there. The motion asks for the introduction of proposals for legislation to amend the Aliens Act, 1935, so as to ensure that aliens shall not acquire land suitable for agricultural purposes or the relief of congestion, and so forth. There is power under the very Act that Deputy McQuillan seeks to amend to deal with the matter that is agitating his mind. I refer the Deputy in particular to Section 5 of the Aliens Act, 1935, which provides, under subsection (1):—
"The Minister may, if and whenever he thinks proper, do by Order (in this Act referred to as an Aliens Order) all or any of the following things in respect either of all aliens of a particular nationality or otherwise of a particular class, or of particular aliens, that is to say:—
(a) prohibit the aliens to whom the Order relates from landing in or entering Saorsatát Éireann."
Section 5 goes further and in subsection (1) (f) provides that the Minister may:—
"require such aliens to reside or remain in particular districts or places in Saorstát Éireann."
We pause there for a moment. If an alien acquires land or goes to acquire land in the County of Roscommon or County Mayo the Minister for Justice can say to him "I will not allow you to live in County Mayo" or "I will not allow you to live in County Roscommon". Under Section 5, paragraph (g), the Minister may:—
"Prohibit such aliens from residing or remaining in particular districts or places in Saorstát Éireann."
So that the Minister for Justice, under the law of the land, can say to an alien in any county in Ireland "get out" and he has no answer. If, for instance, an alien purchases land in any particular area the Minister for Justice can give him his walking papers there and then if he so desires.
Paragraph (h) of the same section provides that the Minister may:—
"require such aliens to comply, while in Saorstát Éireann, with particular provisions as to registration, change of abode, travelling, employment, occupation, and other like matters."
So that the Minister for Justice, under that particular paragraph, can say to any alien in this State, "I will not allow you to engage in agriculture. I will not allow you to farm land". In addition to all these powers under the Aliens Act, 1935, that I have already cited, I would further refer the House to Section 11 of the same Act which provides that:—
"The Minister may by Order make regulations in relation to any matter or thing referred to in this Act as prescribed or to be prescribed, but no such regulation shall be made in relation to the amount of a fee without the consent of the Minister for Finance."
And there is the usual provision that every regulation under this section shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas. So that, under Section 11 the Minister is empowered under this very Act, if the present powers are not sufficient, and I think they are, to make regulations even to the extent of repealing Section 3, because it has been decided that a statutory regulation now can repeal sections or other statutory provisions.
As I have said, the motion as tabled by the movers, asks for proposals for legislation that already exists. I can quite understand the movers of the motion, particularly Deputy McQuillan. I think he stated that he was not familiar with the law and the technicalities of the matter, but I am quite sure that Deputy MacBride, to whom I listened when the motion was being discussed on the last occasion, was well aware of the provisions that I am dealing with now. Deputy MacBride knew quite well that if he has any case in point all he has got to do, if he is worried about any alien, is to persuade the Minister for Justice or the present Government to deal with him. There are ample powers for the Government so to do and for the Minister so to do. If we are sincere, we have no business coming into this House, talking with our tongues in our cheeks about powers that we know are there. If in a particular instance there is a problem that Deputy MacBride knows of and is interested in, all he has to do is to go to the Minister for Justice under this section and ask him to deal with that problem.
I realise that the main matter agitating the minds of the people who have moved the motion is the land slum problem. I am convinced that the measures so far taken to deal with the land slum problem and congestion have been ineffective. For that reason I also ask that further measures should be taken to deal with the land slum problem.
In particular, I would refer the House to the utter failure of the Land Commission to deal with the land slum problem under Section 27 of the 1950 Act. When that Act was going through this House the Minister for Lands and many other people gave the impression that this section, which allowed the Land Commission to come into the open market to purchase land for the relief of congestion would make a tremendous difference in solving this problem and visions and pictures were painted here, once that section was passed, of the Land Commission buying in the open market the available holdings for the purpose of dealing with this problem. What do we find? Since 1950 to date the total number of holdings purchased by the Land Commission in the open market is 22. There are at least 22,000 congests in County Mayo. There are at least 22,000 smallholders there under £10 valuation. I think it will be apparent to anybody that if the total efforts of the Land Commission under all the legislation and particularly under the 1950 Land Act has resulted in the acquisition of 22 holdings or one holding per 1,000 of the congests in County Mayo, we will not make much headway with this problem.
I do not know that it is necessary for me to examine the reasons for the failure of the Land Commission in dealing with the land slum problem. Suffice it to say that every one of us who comes from a congested area realises that only the fringe of the problem has been touched and, if we take the history of the State since its foundation, there have been approximately only 1,000,000 acres of land taken and set, counting the land that was rearranged. The total amount of money spent on it was approximately £9,500,000. How much of that would go in salaries, Land Commission salaries and expenses, I do not know.
We still have in counties like Mayo 22,000 uneconomic holders and we can all realise we are getting nowhere, and that if things are left as they are we will get nowhere. I think it is a feeling in the minds of Deputies on all sides of the House that the policy of the Land Commission has been largely a failure, and I think I am giving them credit for any rearrangements they have made. If you take their figures since the foundation of the State you will realise that their average rate of rearranging and of acquiring is a 100 farms per year. That is obviously going to get us nowhere.
Before I leave the aliens question, I must say that I largely agree, as far as my part of the West is concerned, with what was stated here by, I think, Deputy Brennan, on the last occasion. The type of alien we have got in the West are people who are buying old ramshackle places nobody else would purchase. They are people who come back to the West of Ireland looking for atmosphere, looking for a place where the local fly-boy can play Liszt's rhapsody on his tin whistle. They come out and find that they have acquired a place which nobody else would buy, and then you will see advertisements in the London newspapers about a cosy nook with wonderful fishing and free shooting looking out on the broad Atlantic. They are looking for somebody who will take off their hands the property they had acquired earlier. We like these people down there and these are not the people who create the problem that Deputy McQuillan has in mind.
But getting on to what we must do if we are going to make headway, and obviously somebody is going to ask what we are going to do, I have one suggestion which is to let the local congest solve his own problem. I would empower some board such as the old Congested Districts Board, to schedule every land slum and to schedule every individual farm in a land slum. I would take one or two or three in that particular area with a valuation of £5, or say, a market value of £500, and I would give him credit for £1,000 and let him go out in the open market with the money and purchase any farm on the market. In that way we would be providing that the thrifty congest would do for himself the work which the Land Commission failed to do. I would allow the small farmer whose holding has a market value of £400 or £500 credit for £1,000 to enable him to go out into the open market to purchase any holding that was available. I would, of course, ask him to surrender the holding he was leaving to the Land Commission. In every paper in rural Ireland every week you will see advertisements for holdings which are being sold. There are hundreds of them for sale every week. Of these hundreds of holdings the Land Commission, in their efforts to solve the congestion problem, have succeeded in buying 22 since 1950.
Generally the people who go in for competition in land acquisition in rural Ireland do not derive their livelihood solely or mainly from agriculture. Usually they are shopkeepers or some such people. I do not know if it is proposed to stop these people. I would not propose to do so but I would help the congest by giving him this credit to enter the open market and compete with the shopkeeper and with the other people who are acquiring the land as it comes up for sale. In that way we would be making some effort to solve the congestion problem. I have no doubt that if those people in the land slum areas got the chance and got the necessary help to which they are entitled the congestion situation would ease itself in due course. If there was a scheme of the sort which I am now suggesting they would not have to wait on the Land Commission. Goodness knows they have been waiting long enough for the Land Commission.
In every congested area you go into —and most Deputies know this—the people have been waiting 30, or 40 or maybe 50 years for the Land Commission to get to them. It has a stultifying effect on them. They have been waiting years in the muck for the Land Commission to take them out of their misery and the Land Commission has failed. If we do not do something about this problem emigration will solve it for us. There are unfortunately hundreds of villages in rural Ireland where the keys are being turned in the locks and where the parents as well as the children are going.
We must look upon this problem as being very urgent. I would suggest to the Deputies who may not come from the congested areas to look on this problem as a national one. I do not believe there is a county in Ireland in which there is not some land slum. In any county where there is a land slum scheduled it would enable the people to come out in the open market and solve the problem if they were given credit such as I suggested. Under the scheme I am advocating I would suggest to the Government to cut out the old antipathy by the Deputies from the Midlands. I believe many of the people in the congested areas could solve their own congestion problem if given help of this kind and I am equally satisfied after all the years and all the Land Acts that unless the initiative of the small man is allowed and encouraged the congestion problem will still be talked about by us and by those who come after us in 50 years time.
I cannot see why in a national problem of this kind some proposal along the lines of my suggestion could not be brought to bear on the problem. Over the years millions and millions of pounds have been devoted by this Dáil for the relief of slum problems in Dublin, Cork and other towns and cities, and further millions and millions of pounds have been voted for the provision of amenities such as water and sewerage in the urban and city areas. This is an urgent problem and a problem which will not wait. Although I have no figures on the aliens question, I do not think that is going to get at the kernel of this. We must think in a very advanced way about the solution of the congestion problem. It is not really a question of aliens. It is a question of tackling the problem as a national one, giving the people in the congested areas the help they require. I would urge on the Government and the Minister for Lands to consider the suggestion put forward in this motion, and if he is satisfied, as I am satisfied, that the progress has been hopeless from a national point of view in dealing with this problem, then he should face this with an open mind. If the provisions of the old Land Acts have not achieved their object, then it is time we looked around for some new solution. I would ask the House to accept this motion as amended and ask the Minister for Lands to accept the suggestions made by me to-night towards doing something in the immediate future to relieve this problem which is one that affects practically the whole western seaboard as well as different parts of practically every county in the State.