I should like to express appreciation of the fact that the undertaking given by the previous Taoiseach has been honoured by the Taoiseach to keep this discussion—I hope there will be a discussion—on the report of An Chomhairle Ealaíon separate from and before the general debate on the Estimate for the Department of the Taoiseach. This is the 7th Annual Report of the Comhairle and during the course of those seven years there has hardly been any debate whatever on the report of the Arts Council because of the fact that it always came immediately after the general discussion on the Estimate for the Department of the Taoiseach.
The debate was usually conducted in an atmosphere that was-not conducive to a calm discussion on the arts and crafts, coming as it did immediately after the termination of the discussion on general Government policy. In fact, there was no discussion at all so that the position is that for seven years now the Comhairle has been in operation and the interest taken by Deputies has been remarkable for its complete absence. I was responsible for setting up this Comhairle and I am very glad that I did set it up. I am very glad to be able today to say that looking down through the seven reports that the Comhairle have issued in the last seven years they have, quietly and unobtrusively and with very little outside help, done a very good work indeed, within the limits of their resources and their capacity, and in particular having regard to the fact that with the exception of the director all the members of the Comhairle are giving voluntary service.
I took some trouble to be here this afternoon for the purpose of expressing my appreciation of the work that has been done during those years to try to fulfil what I felt was a very serious want in the public affairs of this country. In the course of those years they have done much work that has passed unnoticed but which, I think I can say, has not been without very considerable effect. It was gratifying last year to visit the Evie Hone Exhibition in the premises of University College, Dublin, and to see thousands of people flocking to that remarkable exhibition of one of the greatest artists this country has produced. Not merely were they flocking in to see the various examples of Evie Hone's wonderful artistic capacity and industry, but they were taking the most extraordinary interest in the lectures given—public lectures by people who interpreted the particular quality of her arts.
The Arts Council and particularly Fr. O'Sullivan, the member of the Council directly responsible for pushing—not without opposition of a very considerable character—this exhibition of Evie Hone's work, deserve very considerable thanks for their work. The exhibition was also produced in London in a public exhibition and to a limited extent in the Tate Gallery. That is only one of the remarkable achievements of the Arts Council in helping to stimulate interest in art and to bring home the fact that Irish people have a capacity for artistic industry and for artistic development and expression.
Before I make any other observations on this Report, I should like to join with the Taoiseach in expressing appreciation of Mr. Macauley for the munificent gift he gave, £20,000, and particularly appreciation of the purpose for which he gave that gift. I should like to hope that the example he gave would be followed by other people, perhaps not as wealthy as he is but who may have other resources from which to give patronage, very much wanted patronage, to the purposes of the Arts Council.
One of the most remarkable things since this State was established is the fact that numbers of people have made vast quantities of money in the operations and as a result of the setting up of this State. It is a reflection upon our people, and particularly upon the commercial community, that they have been singularly lacking in the public duty that I am saying is cast upon them, to give some token of their appreciation of the efforts of the Arts Council and particularly in the application of art to industry. It is understandable, of course, that the people have not got that gift of patronising the arts, certainly to the extent of giving practical expression to that by giving sums of money out of their savings; but it is very deplorable that the commercial community, by and large, have been singularly lacking in cooperation with the efforts of the Arts Council.
One of the outstanding objects in my mind when I persuaded my colleagues to set up this Comhairle Ealaíon was the necessity for bringing to practical effect in this country the application of art to industry and particularly to stimulate the interest of industrialists and commercial people generally in an appreciation of the absolute necessity for proper up-to-date design in our crafts and arts and in our industrial development generally. There was an exhibition of design gathered together, inaugurated and organised by An Chomhairle Ealaíon some years ago. Little, if any, interest was taken in that by our industrial community. When I was last in office, I tried again to stimulate them into an interest in connection with design in industry and the application of art to industry—and I failed.
I find here in this last report of An Comhairle Ealaíon which has just been laid on the Table of the House a reference to a package design scheme. That package design scheme was conceived in the interests, not merely of the commercial community and those engaged in it, but in the interests of the country generally. I shall come back to that, perhaps, in a moment. The package design scheme was launched under terms which are stated in this Report. Under the terms of the scheme, grants were
"given to Irish commercial firms towards the cost of employing the services of professional designers to design retail sales packages for their goods."
Then they go on to say:
"The response from Irish manufacturers was not as great as the Council would wish. The scheme was launched in August, 1958, and though very fully publicised in the Press before the close of the financial year only eleven designs had been submitted to the Council. Grants were made in five cases."
That is what I am objecting to; that is what I am endeavouring to draw public attention to. I am not doing that solely for the purpose of making the case that individual Irish firms or manufacturing concerns or industrialists can make profit for themselves out of a scheme of that kind—as they could—but I am emphasising the utter necessity for dealing with matters of that kind in the general interests of the community.
We cannot hope to have an export trade of any dimensions in ordinary industrial goods—leaving out of consideration in this context the export of agricultural commodities—unless we have them top of the top class. I was certainly of the view that when we exported goods, particularly to America, we were engaged in something which was highly competitive—and that is an understatement. The only way we can meet that highly competitive drive, where practically every nation in the world is engaged in increasing exports, is to produce something essentially different from what is being flooded upon the markets of the world, something that will demonstrate the fact that we have here in Ireland something distinctively Irish, of a design and artistic quality that will beat the best in the world. I believe that could be done if our people had given the necessary attention, paid the necessary expense and had undertaken the necessary risks. There is no use in our producing glassware unless we have it top of the top of designs. I take that merely as an example. I think I said much the same before when I was speaking on this subject.
Let us export what we like to the United States of America, where we have 25,000,000 of our kith and kin— yet we are not going to sell on the American market on the margin of our sentimental connection; we are not going to sell on the basis of sentimentality. That may be taken as an axiom with which I am sure the Taoiseach will agree. We have a great fund of goodwill in America, amongst those citizens who are our kith and kin, either directly or through descent; and we have a tremendous fund of goodwill amongst ordinary American citizens who have not any connection of that kind with us. But neither the sentimental Irishman or Irishwoman, nor those others who may have a sentimental feeling for Ireland, will buy sixpence worth of Irish goods unless the value is good.
We must start with that proposition. It is true that Americans may come here and buy leprechauns and blackthorn sticks and objects with harps on them—which ought to be injuncted by an order of our High Court and by any Act of Parliament by which we could possibly stop that. We may produce what we want to sell in America but unless it is good value and a commercial proposition and high-class in design, in packaging, in format and in price, we shall get no one there to look at it or, if they look at it, they certainly will not buy it.
The last time I was in New York I visited a well-known stores and saw displayed there a magnificent set of materials from this country. They were all top class. I spoke to the head man and he told me exactly what was needed. He said there was no use in bringing the goods into a store in New York and putting on them merely "Déanta in Éirinn" or "Irish" or anything else unless they were top of the top class and were good value at that. I have been urging the necessity for that ever since I had anything to do with the affairs of this country. I started in conjunction with Dr. Thomas Bodkin, who, I had hoped, would be the first Director of An Chomhairle Ealaíon, years ago, in the knowledge that this was what we required, above all things, in this country. We started in the knowledge that we had an opportunity, if we understood the application of art to industry and the necessity for top class design of exclusive Irish character, of doing something that would not be done otherwise for the export trade of this country. That is why I feel so disappointed that our industrialists have taken practically no interest whatever in the work of the Arts Council and have not bent themselves to creating that exclusive Irish design which is necessary.
Look at any of the stuff produced in this country. It is not bad. I hesitate to say that the attitude is that it is good enough for the Irish home market, but one would almost come to that conclusion. I do not want to mention any particular commodity in case I might be accused of criticising this or that industry. I am taking it in general, that the design of the stuff we produce here is very mediocre. I did hear of one firm which, when efforts were made to get a better design, said: "Is it not good enough to sell on the home market?" That may be good enough for us but we have this opportunity, I believe, and we can only avail of it if we get design, and top class design at that.
As I said before many times, I would be in favour of paying the biggest salary ever paid to anyone in this country to someone from any country abroad, whatever his nationality, who would come in here and help our industrialists to evolve a very exclusive Irish design, and I do not mean a design having shamrocks, harps and leprechauns. The less shamrocks, harps and leprechauns we have, the better it will be in this case. We have already had a practical demonstration of that in Sweden where they started, I believe, from scratch to make improvements in design. That is my impression. I may be wrong, but they got the top designers in the world for their glass-wear and they now have a tremendous export market. We will do far better by approaching our export industries on those lines than we will do in any other way.
We have one example of that. Again, I do not want to give something in the nature of a free advertisement to a particular firm. The Taoiseach will probably know to what I am referring. They got in good artistic designers and, in reference to their commodities, have a first class export trade, and they got that export trade before any Government in this country gave a stimulus or tax relief to firms who were exporting. I am sure the Taoiseach will have no hesitation in knowing the firm, which is not 30 miles from this city, to which I am referring. There is a concrete example. They worked up their very good export trade through design. They went to Canada and many other places, produced these particular types of commodities and they were able to beat any of their competitors on design, on quality, and on price.
Unless we can stimulate our own industrialists and manufacturers into following that example, then you may throw your hat at most of your efforts to create any export trade of worthwhile character in the commodities we are manufacturing in this country. But, I think we still have the chance. I believe we still have in the country people of artistic instinct who only require that inherent spirit to be brought out from them, but the whole outlook of the vast majority of our people and particularly, I insist again, of business people, is shrugging their shoulders at art and asking: "What have we got to do with art?" I want to make the position clear that if design and application of art to industry were properly appreciated, and properly and effectively put into operation here, we have got a chance in this country for our export trade, but, without that, we will not have it.
Waterford glass is one example of the way that design can be achieved and an export trade got as a result, not because of the design particularly but because, coupled with the design, is the Irish element of Waterford in it. You have the Irish attraction of Waterford glass, plus good design, though I am far from saying that the design of Waterford glass has reached its peak. I think there is great room for improvement in that but, at least, they have done something in that respect for our export trade abroad.
I do not want unduly to labour this matter. I may be accused of having an idée fixe about this. I am prepared to confess that I have, but the only chance we have of getting any of our goods sold abroad is to have the Irish content, plus first class design, the top of the top. We can achieve that and, if we do, then we will get behind us the goodwill of Irish people in America and of people, not of Irish extraction, who have tremendous goodwill towards us. When you have that, and a good article, you will beat the world, but you have the Irish industrialists who sit down and produce ashtrays with shamrocks on them, and produce other commodities with harps, and produce souvenirs that would turn your soul inside out if you have any artistic instinct at all. That is just a waste of time and money.
Again, we find a rather disturbing thing in this matter. In the report that was laid upon the Table of the House, there is a paragraph or section dealing with the purchase of paintings by local authorities. One of the only ways in which you can stimulate the artistic instinct which will produce eventually, in its proper time, its expression through painting, sculpture and the visual arts in general, is by getting somebody to support young Irish painters and artists when they produce paintings and other works. It would have been throught the local authorities could have produced a few pounds to that effect, with the help given by the Arts Council, but it is on record— again I quote from the recent report of the Council which states:
It is a matter of regret to the Council that so few local authorities have, during the five years of the scheme's operation, availed themselves of this opportunity of purchasing the work of Irish artists at half-price.
If we cannot get our industrialists and local authorities to help Irish artists, where are we going?
That leads me to another consideration in connection with this matter. We have had, I think, three directors of the Arts Council. Most Reverend Dr. Browne is the third director. We had Mr. Little, Seán Ó Faoláin and now Dr. Browne. I think the time has come when there should be a whole-time director of this Comhairle. I had hoped, when I had appointed Mr. Seán Ó Faoláin, that it would develop in that way. In effect, he gave pretty well his whole time to the job and that is the reason why he had to resign eventually. It was felt, with a man of his artistic attainments and his practical achievements in literature, that it would be a loss to Ireland and to artistic circles in general, if he should so have to devote his attention to the Arts Council that his individual creative work would be minimised, if not destroyed. He saw that eventually and that is the reason he had to go, but I think we shall not get the full value of the Arts Council until we have a full-time director with adequate finances. I do not think we have in Dr. Browne. I have no intention of saying anything whatever about him, but I do not think we shall have from him the amount of time, energy and even the particular type of artistic knowledge which is required. I think we should have a whole-time director, and the time has come when I do most urgently press upon the Taoiseach the necessity for increasing the allocations to the Arts Council.
The Taoiseach, in the opening part of his remarks, referred to the objectives which are imposed upon the Council by law. They are very wide. They cover a vast area of artistic and creative work, from the visual artists down to the pipe band in Ballymac-slattery. The Arts Council, since it was formed, have been endeavouring, at all times, to do all the work. They have been trying to stimulate interest in design, in the application of art to industry, and to encourage young people who have talent and touches of genius to go on with their work, and to enable them to go on with their training.
They have done a vast amount of work in connection with the functions of the Council up to the point where we see in this report and, as I know in other reports, grants are being given to brass bands, pipe bands— and, I think, in one case to mouth organs but I am not sure of that—all sorts of ceilidhe functions, all kinds of dramatic functions throughout the country which are all very useful, necessary and desirable, as was the assistance which was given to the Gate Theatre, the Wexford Festival and local drama leagues which are also terribly necessary.
Everything cannot be done at once and the result is that it can only be hit in spots, and the problem only touched in bits. When the Arts Council are giving grants to all sorts of local rural activities, they pay a small sum of money which helps a little and is perhaps made up with the help of the local authority, but it only helps a little. The Arts Council have not the remotest notion of what is done with the money because they cannot afford to supervise the application of the money, or even to see whether any results are got from it.
They have not got the money and they have not got the staff. The original Arts Council started with an unpaid director, a secretary and a typist, and I know that when certain exhibitions were being organised and the actual physical exhibits were being collected in a very small space in the St. Stephen's Green premises, the secretary of Comhairle Ealaíon at that time had to wait until late at night nailing down packages, parcelling up exhibits and carting them out himself to the place where they were to be exhibited. That even goes for the present secretary, Mr. Mervyn Wall, an extremely competent and conscientious person. I understand also that the young lady who occupies the high position of typist has done the work of secretary and director from time to time. A considerable amount of valuable work has been done by the secretary and the typist for the past seven years under the direction of the part-time directors, Mr. Little and Mr. Seán Ó Faoláin. A considerable amount of work has been done in those difficult and trying circumstances.
I want the public to know that good work has been done with an inadequate staff and not enough money. The Arts Council is a voluntary body and they give excellent services at their own expense and with a great deal of trouble and they have performed very useful work over the past seven years. It is not fair that they should have to continue to carry on in those conditions and, therefore, I appeal to the Taoiseach to increase the grant, though I know that every person, every body, and every activity in the country is clamouring for more and more money.
At least I gave expression to my outlook on this matter, when, in the year 1956, when the financial affairs of the country were in a bad way, I helped them by giving an extra £3,000 in one year. I did not do it the next year, but I absolutely refused, in spite of great pressure—which the Taoiseach can find out for himself if he takes the trouble to look it up—to reduce the grant, and I said if it were not for the state of affairs at that time I would have very substantially increased it.
With a sum of £20,000 the Council are trying to do a vast amount of work in spreading that small sum to benefit a wide area, too wide an area. Unless the grant is increased, the net result will be that the work of An Chomhairle Ealaíon in future will have to be selective, that it will be selective and not comprehensive. Accordingly, in view of the fact that they have, for so many years, carried out such useful and valuable public services, I think they should be given an increased grant. I do not base my case upon the grant alone, because it is more than that. There is something inestimable, something that cannot be measured in value to the nation, in the stimulation of artistic instinct, talents and interest in the visual arts, and drama and literature generally.
Every country in the world is spending vast amounts of money upon the very type of thing that the Arts Council was set up to do. They are not doing that merely because they like pictures and music. They are doing it for severely practical purposes. Leaving aside all question of artistic values and the building up of a nation so that it is not a nation of clodhoppers, leaving aside the inestimable value to a country of achieving that objective, it has, as I endeavoured to emphasise at the outset, a very severely practical purpose.
If we had artists here, we would stimulate interest in art and its application to industry and Irish design— and we can only achieve that with the stimulation of the Arts Council—and if we had artists who were capable of producing distinctive Irish designs it might be possible to produce some sort of commodities or some types of artistic products—glassware, teaware chinaware, souvenirs, or anything else —of a character that could be sold on that market of immense goodwill towards us which exists in the United States of America.
I believe that is the only way in which we can really increase our exports of industrial goods. It is unfortunate that An Chomhairle Ealaíon was so frustrated by lack of interest on the part of the industrialists. It is unfortunate that the package design scheme was also frustrated. I hope, accordingly, to urge upon the Taoiseach that he should act in the way I have suggested. He is a practical man —I do not accuse the Taoiseach of being an artist but I appreciate the fact that he knows something about the workings of industry here. I think he will appreciate what I have been saying about the inestimable good that can come to the country if he will only shake up some people into the realisation that practical good will come to themselves, even if they look at it from an egotistical point of view, along the lines of the application of art to industry with high-class design for exclusive Irish goods.
