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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 24 Feb 1960

Vol. 179 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - Army Pensions Bill, 1960—Committee and Final Stages.

Sections 1 to 28, inclusive, agreed to.
NEW SECTION

I move amendment No. 1:—

Before section 29, in page 10, to insert the following new section:

"(1) In this section ‘the relevant provision of the Acts' means—

(a) subsection (2) of section 2 of the Act of 1923,

(b) subsection (2) of section 9, subsection (2) of section 10, subsection (2) of section 11, subsection (2) of section 12, and subsection (2) of section 13 of the Act of 1927, and

(c) subsection (3) of section 10 of the Act of 1932.

(2) The relevant provisions of the Acts, as respects any person who was engaged in pre-truce military service and who is in receipt of a disability pension or a wound pension under the Acts, shall be construed as if, in respect of a disease contracted during service which terminated before the 10th day of December, 1932, or a wound received before the 10th day of December, 1932, the sole condition necessary as to the marriage of that person for the grant of a further pension or a married pension to such person was that such marriage took place on or after the 10th day of December, 1932, and before the 5th day of August, 1953, and accordingly, the appropriate further pension or married pension shall, on application being made to the Minister, be payable under the Acts, from such date (not earlier than the date of the passing of this Act) as the Minister may determine, to such person provided he was, on such date, a married man for the purposes of the Acts.

(3) Nothing in this section shall be construed as authorising the payment of a further pension or a married pension to a person who was granted such pension in respect of a period before the 5th day of August, 1953, and whose wife died and who re-married before that date.

(4) Subsection (1) and subsection (2) of section 12 of the Act of 1959 shall not be construed as affecting the operation of subsection (2) of this section.

(5) Every application for a pension under the relevant provisions of the Acts as amended by this Act shall be made not later than twelve months after the date of the passing of this Act and shall be in such form and contain such particulars as the Minister may require."

Having further considered the representations made with regard to the latest date of marriage for persons with pre-truce service I have sought and received the approval of the Government to introduce amending sections which have the effect of bringing the latest date of marriage up to the 5th August 1953, the date of enactment of the Army Pensions Act, 1953, in which the original concession was introduced. The most convenient way of doing it is to repeat the provisions of Sections 39 and 40 of the Act of 1953, substituting the 5th August 1953 for the 10th December, 1932 as the latest date of marriage.

Deputies will, I feel sure, agree that this extension is highly reasonable. It enables persons with pre-truce service to qualify for married pensions, and their dependants for allowances, even though the marriage took place 30 years after the time when the wound was received or the disease contracted. Short of having no latest date of marriage at all, which, as I mentioned last week, would cover even death-bed marriages, I do not think that I could reasonably be expected to go any further than I am doing.

I am providing specifically that certain provision of the Act of 1959 which embodied the general conditions that marriage should have taken place before the date of wound or the date of discharge will not apply to these particular cases. I am also providing that where a person already had a marriage pension in respect of one marriage and his wife died, he shall not be entitled to a marriage pension in respect of a subsequent marriage. A person will be able to qualify in respect of a second marriage contracted before the 5th August, 1953, provided that he had not a marriage pension in respect of his previous marriage.

I am not too happy that we are covering the cases I have in mind but I want to thank the Minister and to tell him that we appreciate that he has gone a very big step forward towards improving the conditions in the cases of a very large number of people. I have some cases in mind, however, and I am not happy that this amendment covers them. There was a case in Galway recently in which a man with a wound pension died and I cannot understand why his widow does not, as far as I can ascertain, qualify. I am not sure that this amendment would cover that case. I think the Minister will agree that it is the type of case that the amendment should cover. The man was married within the time but because he did not claim or did not declare his wife, the question now is whether she is in or out. I am not happy about the matter.

I wrote some time age, a week or so ago, to the Secretary of the Department asking for certain information on the matter and I have not yet received a reply. I have two or three other cases in mind and I do not think that the amendment covers them. I got the amendment only this morning. It may have been circulated in a White Paper but, if it was, I did not see it and I have not been able to give it the examination that I feel I should have given it. I do not think that the Minister is in a position to say whether the type of case I have in mind is covered or not.

I know the Minister and the Government would be anxious to cover cases like these but if we enact this Bill today and they are not covered in it they may be out for all time. I am anxious to give the Minister all stages of the Bill today but, at the same time, it may be done so hurriedly that we may do something that will not have the effect we intend it to have. I wonder if the Minister could give any further information on the matter.

I do not know the particulars of the case which Deputy MacEoin has in mind but as far as we know the 1953 Act worked perfectly and there were no complaints about it except with regard to the latest date of marriage. That being so, we consider that the best way in which to do what we want to do is to repeat the two relevant sections of the 1953 Act altering the date from the 10th December, 1932, to the 5th August, 1953. It seems to us that if the Act worked perfectly in respect of these marriages that this amendment should work perfectly also.

I do not know the cases Deputy MacEoin has in mind but if we find that if they are not covered in this amendment, we shall have to reconsider the matter. As far as I know, this Bill covers all cases.

This Bill will have to go to the Seanad.

Yes. In the meantime, I shall look up these cases and see what the position is.

I think Deputy MacEoin's argument applies more to Section 2 than to Section 1. His is the case of a widow and Section 1 only deals with marriage and children's allowances.

The two may be discussed together. They are interrelated.

Amendment agreed to.
NEW SECTION.

I move amendment No. 2:

Before section 29, in page 10, to insert the following new section:

"(1) In this section ‘the relevant provisions of the Acts' means—

(a) the following provisions of the Act of 1927, namely—

(i) paragraph (ii) of subsection (1) of section 14 (in so far as it applies to a person mentioned in paragraph (e) of that subsection) as amended by subsection (1) of section 25 of the Act of 1932.

(ii) subsection (6) of section 14 (in so far as it relates to a person mentioned in paragraph (a), paragraph (b) or paragraph (c) of subsection (2) of that section),

(iii) subsection (4) of section 15 (in so far as it relates to a person mentioned in paragraph (a), paragraph (b) or paragraph (c) of subsection (2) of that section),

(b) section 12 of the Act of 1932, as amended by section 19 of the Act of 1937.

(2) The relevant provisions of the Acts, as respects any deceased person who was engaged in pre-truce military service and

(a) who was a member of an organisation to which Part II of the Act of 1932 applied, or

(b) who either died from a disease before the 10th day of December, 1932, while serving in the forces, or was discharged from the forces before the said date suffering from a disease, or

(c) who, in the case of a person who was killed, was killed before the 10th day of December, 1932, or

(d) who, in the case of a person who died as a result of a wound, received such wound before the 10th day of December, 1932,

shall be construed as if the sole condition necessary as to the marriage of that person, for the grant of a widow's allowance and children's allowances under the Acts to the widow and children of such person was that such marriage took place on or after the 10th day of December, 1932, and before the 5th day of August, 1953, and accordingly, the appropriate widow's allowance and children's allowances shall, on application being made to the Minister, be payable under the Acts, from such date (not earlier than the date of the passing of this Act) as the Minister may determine to such widow (provided she had not remarried on or before such date) and children.

(3) Where a person who was engaged in pre-truce military service died while in receipt of a wound pension or a disability pension and would have been entitled, immediately prior to the date of his death, to a further pension or a married pension if the sole condition for the grant of such further pension or married pension had been that his marriage took place on or after the 10th day of December, 1932, and before the 5th day of August, 1953, and provided the death of such person was due solely to the wound or disease in respect of which the wound pension or the disability pension (as the case may be) was granted, the Minister, on application being made to him, may grant to the widow (provided she has not remarried) and children of such person the appropriate allowances under the Acts as amended by this Act.

(4) (a) No application under the Acts as amended by this Act for a widow's or child's allowance in respect of a deceased person shall be entertained unless an application was previously duly made under the Acts for such allowance or for a widow's gratuity in respect of that deceased person.

(b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this subsection, it shall be lawful for the widow and children of a deceased person who, at the date of his death, was in receipt of a disability pension or a wound pension to apply for and be granted a widow's and child's allowance under the Acts as amended by this Act.

(c) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this subsection, it shall be lawful for a person who did not previously apply for a widow's or child's allowance or for a widow's gratuity under the Acts in respect of the death of a person to whom subsection (2) of the section applies to apply for and be granted such allowance under the Acts as amended by this Act provided that, if such person had duly made an application for an allowance or gratuity under the Acts in respect of such deceased person, such application would have been refused solely on the ground that the applicant did not comply with the relevant provisions of the Acts.

(5) (a) Where, before the passing of this Act, an application was duly made under the Acts for a widow's or child's allowance or for a gratuity in respect of a deceased person and such application was refused on grounds other than failure to comply with the relevant provisions of the Acts, as further application under the Acts as amended by this Act in respect of that deceased person shall be entertained.

(b) It shall be lawful for a person who previously applied for a widow's or child's allowance or for a widow's gratuity under the Acts and whose application was refused solely on the ground of failure to comply with the relevant provisions of the Acts, to apply for and be granted such allowance under the Acts as amended by this Act.

(6) Subsections (1), (2) and (3) of section 5 and section 7 of the Act of 1959 shall not be construed as affecting the operation of subsection (3) of this section.

(7) Every application for an allowance under the relevant provisions of the Acts as amended by this Act shall be made not later than twelve months after the date of the passing of this Act and shall be in such form and contain such particulars as the Minister may require."

Amendment agreed to.
Section 29 agreed to.
First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Schedules agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported with amendments.

Acting Chairman

Next Stage?

I have no objection to taking the remaining Stages today if the Minister will examine the cases I have mentioned before the Bill goes to the Seanad.

I shall do so.

There are two or three of them which I might call standard cases.

We know of only very few, but I shall have an examination made in order to discover what other cases there may be.

There will be none left out?

We shall be at this in 30 years' time.

Agreed to take remaining stages today.

Bill received for final consideration.

Question proposes: "That the Bill do now pass."

I should like to take this opportunity of thanking the Minister for the way in which he has met all these cases.

Question put and agreed to.

This Bill is certified by the Ceann Comhairle to be a Money Bill within the meaning of Article 22 of the Constitution.

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