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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 22 Jun 1960

Vol. 183 No. 2

Committee on Finance. - Vote 32—Local Government.

I move:—

That a sum not exceeding £3,166,890 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1961, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Local Government, including Grants and other Expenses in connection with Housing and Miscellaneous Grants.

The total Vote for my Department for the year 1960-61 is £5,131,890. As it appears in the Book of Estimates, it shows an increase of £651,400 on the Vote for the previous financial year but Deputies will recall that a Supplementary Estimate of £195,000 for grants under the Housing Acts was passed towards the close of that year. The net increase of this Estimate over that of last year is, therefore, £456,400.

The chief increases are £215,000 in the provision for contributions towards housing loan charges of local authorities; £395,000 in the provision for grants to private persons etc., for the purchase, erection, reconstruction and improvement of dwelling houses; and £41,000 in the provision for contributions towards loan charges of sanitary authorities.

The cumulative increase in the provision of grants for private persons' housing is now £795,000 in excess of the corresponding provision made before the passing of the Housing (Amendment) Act, 1958. This reflects the continuing stimulus which housing activity is receiving from the increased grants and the widened scope of their application in respect of repair, improvement and sanitation works, as well as the loan facilities for such works, for which the Act of 1958 made provision.

The erection of new houses by private enterprise has also increased to quite an exceptional degree. These increases are reflected in the figures for 1959/60 in respect of both grants allocated and grants paid under every head of erection and reconstruction. The numbers of grants approved showed increases as compared with the previous year of 52.3 per cent. for new houses, 42.9 per cent. for reconstruction, repair or improvement of houses and 57.2 per cent. for water and sewerage grants, while the numbers of grants finally paid showed increases of 21.5 per cent. for new houses, 20.4 per cent. for reconstruction, etc., and 23.4 per cent. for water supply and sewerage facilities.

There is very considerable scope for works for the conservation or improvement of existing houses, including the provision of piped water supplies and sewerage facilities for rural houses. In this latter type of work, there is a growing tendency towards co-operation by groups of persons in the provision of private water supply schemes in outlying rural areas. I have written and spoken in favour of this development, particularly in areas which would not normally be served by public supplies, and I have found that the people concerned are quick to appreciate that co-operative effort can be a solution to their problem in relation to water supply. I am continuing the drive for expansion of these operations and I have sought the co-operation of sanitary authorities in examining the proposals and supervising their maintenance so as to ensure that they will work satisfactorily and that they can be assimilated in due course into any public water supply systems that may be provided for the areas in question.

Apart from the continuance for another two years by the Housing (Amendment) Act, 1960, of the general grant facilities as extended by the Act of 1958, it has been found possible to modify certain administrative restrictions governing the allocation of second or further reconstruction or improvement grants where works of this nature become urgently necessary. Payment of a second or further grant in respect of the same house has been subject to a restriction as to a period, usually 15 years, that must elapse between the completion of one job and the commencement of another. I found that rigid application of this restriction was giving rise to hardships where it had become essential to carry out further work before the expiration of the 15 year period. In order to alleviate such hardships, limited grants are now available for some of the more urgent works which are likely to arise. Such works can be classified as follows:—

1. Provision of extra bedrooms to relieve permanent overcrowding. There may be a waiting period of 5 years between the two works and the grants are subject to a maximum of £50 per essential room. An extension to the floor area of the house must be involved.

2. Provision of bathrooms by way of extension to floor area. There may be a waiting period of up to 5 years between the two works and the grants are subject to a maximum of £50. The bathroom must be fitted out as such.

3. Other works (other than maintenance works) which are certified to be urgently necessary to conserve the house and to be necessary because of damage caused by fire, wind, rain, flooding or other cause outside the applicant's control.

These grants are made available under Section 12 of the Housing (Amendment) Act, 1954, and are of course subject to the other qualifications for such grants.

In the light of the diminishing volume of housing needs requiring to be met by local authorities, it might be anticipated that progress under this head would have shown a decline but, on the contrary, in the year ended 31st March last, the housing authorities completed 2,070 dwellings as compared with 1,812 in the preceding financial year. In addition 342 houses were acquired and reconstructed by Waterford Corporation in that period

Estimates submitted by housing authorities indicate that they expect to commence work on over 3,000 dwellings in the current financial year. While such estimates may be subject to revision in the light of actual progress being made in the course of the year, these figures reveal a further substantial increase in the size of the local authority housing programme. It is one of my chief concerns to ensure that this projected housing is directed to its best social and economic purpose by relieving genuine housing need as represented particularly by those families living in the remaining pockets of unfit houses which still exist in various areas.

In a recent circular letter to housing authorities I reminded them that the stage now appears to have been reached in most areas where the remaining housing problems require to be dealt with by way of an intimate examination of these problems by officers of the housing authorities in consultation, where appropriate, with officers of my Department. I suggested that such examination should extend to the numbers of unfit houses still remaining and the works necessary to render fit any houses that can be made fit at reasonable expense. Such an examination will be expected to be made, irrespective of whether the occupants have applied for rehousing or not. I also suggested that owners and occupiers of repairable houses should be urged to make use of the reconstruction, repair and improvement grants available.

Other activities recommended in the letter included the organisation and supervision of co-operative housing and the provision by the housing authorities of sites for persons anxious and willing to construct houses for themselves. I have asked housing authorities to give special examination to the question of under-occupation in local authority dwellings with a view to taking all steps practicable, where need is found to exist, to ensure that the available accommodation is used to the best advantage.

The Estimate contains a provision of £386,000 for subsidy towards the annual loan repayments in respect of sanitary services works, principally water and sewerage schemes. It shows an increase of £41,000 over the sum provided for 1959/60.

In my statement on the Estimates last year, I mentioned the decline in the volume of work in progress on sanitary services schemes caused by the interruption of planning in 1956. This continued during the last financial year. The estimated cost of schemes in progress at 31st March last was £4,228,000 as compared with £5,130,000 on 31st March, 1959. The value of work actually executed on these schemes fell from approximately £1,400,000 in 1958/59 to £1,000,000 in 1959/60. The planning and execution of sanitary services works generally spans a number of years, so that any curtailment of programmes produces effects which are evident over a long period. The results of corrective action are equally slow to mature. It is hoped, however, that the present financial year will show an upturn in the trend of expenditure on the works. My aim is to attain a level of expenditure of about three million pounds a year so as to ensure that the programme will be completed within a reasonable period.

In order to secure an expansion in the programme of works on these schemes, the Government decided to raise, for schemes commenced or for loans sanctioned after 18th September, 1959, the standard rates of State subsidy and to make other financial changes designed to lighten the impact on the ratepayers of the cost of such schemes. The new rates of Exchequer contribution to loan charges on water and sewerage schemes are 60 per cent. in Gaeltacht areas, former congested districts, and urban districts under £25,000 valuation; 50 per cent. in other areas, and 40 per cent. in Dublin city. These rates represent increases of from 16? per cent. to 5 per cent. in the several separate rates of subsidy formerly applicable to water supply and sewerage schemes in the various areas mentioned. In addition, 25 per cent. capital grants are available from Roinn na Gaeltachta for schemes in the Fíor-Ghaeltacht. The other financial changes are an extension of the maximum period for the repayment of loans from 30 to 50 years; the authorisation of repayment by the annuity system, instead of the instalment system, at the option of the local authority; and the inclusion of the costs of acquiring land, water rights, etc., in the capital cost of the scheme for the purpose of calculating subsidy.

These financial changes will enable local authorities to go forward confidently with the planning and execution of water supply and sewerage schemes. I am particularly concerned that attention should now be concentrated on expanding sanitary services in rural areas with a view not alone to the advancement of public health, but to raising living standards and the furtherance of agricultural efficiency, particularly in livestock production. The present position is that 88 per cent. of persons living outside towns and villages do not enjoy the benefits of a piped water supply, and the urgent need for improvement of this position is, as I mentioned when announcing the revised financial terms for water and sewerage schemes, the next objective of social policy.

County councils have been asked to prepare comprehensive programmes for the extension of piped water supplies to rural areas, taking account of the need, in many areas, for reliance either wholly or partly on private piped water supplies and sewerage facilities installed with the aid of State and local authority grants. An essential preliminary to the adoption of such programmes is a detailed survey of the existing sanitary services position in each area, the water sources available, and the possibilities of developing these sources in the most effective way for the service of the inhabitants. Detailed directions were issued last year on this matter. I would urge all county councils to proceed with the completion of these surveys without delay. The work involved may call for some redeployment or augmentation of county engineering staffs as a temporary measure, and I am prepared to facilitate councils in this matter. The further planning and execution of programmes, and the proper operation and maintenance of the schemes, may require more permanent arrangements, and I would suggest that county councils may find many advantages in specialising their engineering staffs. Specialised branches of work, such as sanitary services, housing and roads, might, where that is not the case already, usefully be assigned to individual Chief Assistant or Assistant County Engineers. The recruitment of design staff should also be considered where a substantial programme of work is foreseen, and where the existing county engineering staff offers no room for design work.

There are problems connected with water utilisation, and the disposal of waste water, which call for special examination. The demands on water resources for domestic consumption, industrial development, agriculture and inland fisheries may set up conflicts of interest in particular cases while, on the other hand, drainage operations and the disposal of sewage and trade wastes may give rise to water pollution, with prejudicial effects on domestic water supplies or fisheries. These problems require joint consideration by a number of departments and I have, accordingly, after consultation with the other Ministers concerned, set up a committee of representatives of the Departments of Finance, Lands, Industry and Commerce, Agriculture, Transport and Power, Health, and my own Department, to consider the whole question of water utilisation, in the light of information available as to the water resources of the State.

Considerable progress was made during the past year in carrying out a number of major sanitary services schemes. The North Dublin Regional Water Supply Scheme serving districts along the Northern boundary of the city, was completed and is now in operation. The North Dublin Drainage Scheme, serving many of the north city suburbs, is in partial operation. The Whitegate Regional Water Supply Scheme, County Cork, has been completed. It serves the oil refinery mainly but also a number of small towns and villages in the vicinity and a considerable rural area. The South County Wexford Regional Water Supply Scheme, which was begun in 1958/59, is now about 90 per cent. completed. The Lough Mourne Water Supply Scheme, County Donegal, has been completed and serves Lifford, Raphoe, Castlefin, Convoy, Killygordon, Ballindrait Cross Roads, Porthall and neighbouring areas. In addition it has been connected for standby purposes in cases of emergency for St. Johnston, Stranorlar and Ballybofey. Further extensions of the scheme have been approved to serve Millsessiagh, Coneyboro, Sessiaghoneill and Carrigans and it is expected that the last named extension will be used in due course to serve the Monereagh, Tonagh, Cross, Churchtown, Castle-third and Derrymore districts. A survey of the whole area with a view to ascertaining what other areas can be usefully served has recently been completed and is under consideration. I understand that, as a result, a number of further extensions will be proposed.

During the year a number of schemes were commenced, the largest being two new contracts entered into by Kildare County Council for regional water supply schemes which will serve several areas including Johnstown, Kill and Rathangan. Work on a main drainage scheme for Bandon, County Cork, and its vicinity oegan in January, 1960. An important water supply improvement scheme from the economic point of view was commenced during the year in order to improve the supply to the Centre Park Road Industrial Area, Cork, and is half-way to completion.

The fire service continues to improve generally. I should like to congratulate the Limerick City and neighbouring Fire Brigades, including the Cork City Brigade, on the efficiency and promptness with which they dealt with the very large fire which occurred last year in Todd and Co's premises. Apart from the fire fighting skill displayed, the occasion was a heartening demonstration of inter-brigade co-operation.

The taking of preventive action is an important aspect of the fire service. I have recently set up an expert committee to revise the Fire Protection Standards for certain buildings which were drawn up some twelve years ago and which now require to be reviewed and revised where necessary in the light of experience. The committee is made up of representatives of my Department, the Departments of Health, Education and defence, the Office of public Works, and local authority fire officers.

I have been giving a good deal of thought to open spaces in new building estates which are left in an unsightly and neglected state. The present situation cannot be allowed to continue. There are two problems, first, to ensure that the developer leaves the open space in a tidy and plantable condition and secondly, to provide that the local authority will then take it over and maintain it. The present law is not satisfactory and I am now considering the details of new legislation to ensure that local authorities have power to require a developer to discharge his obligations, and that they have the legal obligation to take over and maintain these open spaces.

It is my view that this obligation of local authorities should be related to their general responsibility for safeguarding and extending the amenities of their areas and should embrace also neglected or derelict open spaces in private or local authority ownership which have been allowed to fall into an objectionable condition.

I have had under consideration for some time the increasing use of holiday caravans and the consequent need for suitable caravan sites. This development will oblige sanitary authorities to take measures for the prevention of danger to public health and injury to amenities. There may be a serious hazard to health in concentrations of such vehicles on sites that are inadequately provided with water supplies, sewage disposal systems and other services. I should like to see every reasonable encouragement given to the use of caravans as an important element in the development of tourist traffic, but the use of unsuitable sites or the misuse of any site would harm rather than help this objective.

There are adequate powers of control vested in sanitary authorities under the Local Government (Sanitary Services) Act, 1948. Hitherto my Department has acted only on request from sanitary authorities to have the relevant control provisions brought into operation but I have now decided that, unless the initiative is taken locally, I shall declare the statutory provisions to be in operation in all areas where caravan parks or caravan sites have been or are likely to be provided. I am also having a memorandum issued to sanitary authorities for their guidance in considering applications for licensing of sites and in attaching conditions to licences granted. In enforcing compliance with the standards I can see that a certain financial burden may fall on developers and I am advising sanitary authorities to co-operate as far as possible with private developers in the provision of services where such co-operation may prove necessary or desirable. The memorandum on standards will specify conditions in relation to a number of matters such as density of temporary dwellings on a site, layout of the site, water supply, sanitary conveniences, general maintenance, behaviour, supervision and fire precautions.

The most striking development in road matters in recent years has been the growth in the number of motor vehicles. In 1949 there were less than 123,000 vehicles licensed and about 173,000 drivers. Ten years later these figures had increased to over 278,000 vehicles and over 305,000 drivers. The increase has been most striking in the case of small motor cycles and tractors, but the numbers of the main classes of vehicles, private cars and goods vehicles, have about doubled in the 10-year period. These figures reflect the growing importance of roads in internal transport: incidentally, they afford some indication of the general level of prosperity and economic activity.

The growth in road traffic has created a correspondingly increased demand on the road system, including the network of county roads that has had to be improved to take the mechanised transport that now serves the farming community. In most areas considerable headway has been made and a good spinal system of county roads provided. As one comes to the less-trafficked county roads, it is possible to reduce standards of construction, and so reduce costs. A further substantial reduction in costs has been secured by the use of modern methods and new materials. The overall result is that the completion of the county road programme can be achieved in most areas in a reasonable time. It may not be necessary to provide dust-free surfaces on all county roads, many of which can be maintained in good condition for motor traffic by the use of modern maintenance methods, at no extra charge over present upkeep costs.

I should like to I give some figures to indicate the present stage of progress. We have approximately 40,000 miles of county roads of which about 40 per cent. have been made dust-free. Four counties have over 80 per cent. in this condition, a further six over 50 per cent., and a further 10 over 25 per cent. The annual increment is 1,600 miles, so that at the end of three years approximately 50 per cent. will have dust-free surfaces and at the end of six years over 60 per cent.

Although main roads number in miles only 10,000, they carry the heaviest concentration of traffic, particularly the main arterial routes. Traffic counts taken on trunk roads in recent years gave figures as high as 3,618 vehicles per 12-hour period, and 1,500 vehicles per peak hour. Calculations made in particular cases show that any improvement effected yields considerable savings in time, fuel consumption and wear and tear of vehicles and tyres. Accident statistics have shown also that better roads mean less accidents. In view, however, of the limited amount of capital available for investment in the whole system, and the needs of the county roads to which I have referred, main road improvement work is restricted to cases where the road was deteriorating under the weight of traffic or where accident records showed a serious hazard. The amount of main road realignment work carried out at present is therefore restricted, the limited funds available for main road improvement being largely spent on widening and strengthening. Some useful works have been carried out, however, and in each case they were specifically approved by the elected body in accordance with the procedure which I introduced in 1958.

Apart from the grants available under the Road Fund (Grants and Advances) (Temporary Provisions) Act, 1959, the Road Fund grants for the present year as originally notified were on the same basis as in the past few years. Amounting to approximately £5,000,000 they included a county road improvement grant of £2,400,000, a main road improvement grant of £1,000,000, a main road upkeep grant of 40 per cent. of approved expenditure, £400,000 for the tourist road scheme, £150,000 for bridge schemes and £150,000 for the county boroughs and Dún Laoghaire. Recent returns of motor taxation indicate that a higher income for the benefit of the Road Fund may be expected, due chiefly to the growth in the number of vehicles taxed. Furthermore, with the assistance of money advanced by the Government, by way of loan and by careful administration, we have reduced the proportion of commitments that had reached such a disturbing volume some years ago. These improvements in the position of the Fund have enabled me to allocate extra grants amounting to about £400,000 in the present financial year.

Out of this amount, an improvement grant of £50,000 is being allocated for urban roads, divided on a mileage basis. This is the first time that Urban District Councils have received any grants from the Road Fund for their urban roads. The county and main road improvement grants already allocated to the county councils are being increased by 1/12th.

The main road upkeep grant is being extended to the county borough corporations and the Corporation of Dún Laoghaire. Up to now these municipalities have received no grant towards road upkeep. The grant should help them to improve the maintenance of their streets and so to meet more effectively the need of present-day traffic and prevent costly deterioration.

A number of developments indicate that the time has come to assess the merits of the existing system of distributing Road Fund grants. The tourist road scheme is due to terminate this year. The county road improvement schemes are near completion in some counties. Traffic has reached a high level and continues to grow. I have, therefore, instituted a comprehensive, objective review of the grants system. It may be that this review will suggest sweeping changes. It may be that it will merely confirm the value of the existing system. Naturally, the Minister for Finance and myself will have to consider the matter fully before deciding on any new system, or on retaining the existing one.

The Road Fund (Grants and Advances) (Temporary Provisions) Act, 1959, provided for special assistance to the Road Fund over a period of five years to the extent of a maximum of £400,000 per annum, half being a loan and half a free grant. This was designed to deal with urgent problems created by railway crossings and the improvement of access to certain major industrial undertakings. Requests for grants far in excess of the maximum of £2 millions have been received, as one would expect, and it has been necessary to restrict the allocations to cases which clearly complied with the preordained conditions, namely, that being outside the scope of the road authority's normal programme they could not be undertaken under the funds normally available to the local authorities concerned, that they must be urgent and that they must relate, in the case of railway closings, to closings that have occurred recently.

On the basis of these conditions it has been necessary to refuse a number of requests for grants. The full sum of £2 millions has for all practical purposes now been allocated, £1,400,000 to eight counties affected by railway closings, and the balance for public roads serving industrial etc., undertakings such as the Shannon Airport area, Cork Airport, the Whitegate refinery, a number of coal mines, the Wicklow copper mine, and gypsum mines.

I do not propose to go into questions of motor taxation, because on the issue of unladen weight a full debate was held on the Finance (Excise Duties) (Vehicles) (Amendment) Act, 1960, and further minor amendments of the motor tax law have been included in the Finance Bill.

I now come to road traffic. The growth in road traffic has naturally accentuated the problems of road safety and traffic congestion. The Government are fully alive to these problems and are intent on their solution within the shortest possible time. In so far as legislation can help, the necessary provisions will be made in the forthcoming Road Traffic Bill. The Government's preliminary proposals in the White Paper have, on the whole, been well received. Suggestions on individual items have been made, and these are at present being considered. Every effort will be made to bring the legislation before the House as quickly as possible, but it will be appreciated that a lengthy Bill of this type, which is intended to modernise and codify the whole Road Traffic law, will take some time to draft.

The Bill itself will need to be implemented by various regulations and byelaws. Progress has already been made in the review of existing regulations. Where necessary and where the powers are available, these can be amended prior to the enactment of the Bill. Thus, in April, 1959, I made regulations and the Commissioner of the Garda Síochána made byelaws which enabled us to introduce the new type of pedestrian crossing, giving a pedestrian the right of way where zebra markings and flashing beacons are provided. Dublin Corporation have already provided 46 of these crossings with the assistance of a grant from the Road Fund.

While a lot can be done by way of legislation and regulation, and while the Garda Síochána can play their part by way of enforcement, a worthwhile reduction of accidents can be secured and maintained only if every individual road-user plays his part. Propaganda has been used from time to time, and will continue to be used, to foster the proper outlook among road-users—a sense of consideration for others, an awareness of the need for care at all times. Coupled with these qualities there must be inculcated a thorough knowledge of the rules of road behaviour. At the moment the preparation of an illustrated folder is in hands which will deal with a particular aspect of the Rules of the Road, namely, the duties and rights of road-users at pedestrian crossings. It is hoped that others will follow.

On traffic congestion, the powers to deal with this rest primarily, and quite rightly, with the Garda Síochána, who make the necessary byelaws and have the responsibility for enforcing them. The local authorities provide the signs, markings and other devices. They are consulted before byelaws are made. It is necessary to have a number of authorities in the picture because a number of interests are involved. Proper co-ordination can eliminate any confusion and delays that might arise in the implementation of sound ideas for the abatement of congestion, which can create a serious economic loss. With this in view, I have arranged that the Commissioner of the Garda Síochána and the Dublin Corporation should each assign a senior officer to work on the informal co-ordination of their functions, in association with the senior Assistant Secretary of my Department in order to expedite decisions on all the improvements that may be found possible in advance of the long-term measures on which the Corporation is seeking expert advice.

In most counties the high standard of rate collection of previous years was maintained, the percentage of the rate warrants collected at the 31st March, 1960, being 97.2 per cent. as compared with 97.4 per cent. at the corresponding date in the previous year.

The wages and salary increases recently granted to local authority employees made some increases in the rates unavoidable. The rates struck by most county councils therefore show some increase this year—the average county rate for the current year being 38/11d. as against 38/- last year.

During the last financial year the total revenue expenditure of local authorities, excluding vocational education committees, committees of agriculture and harbour authorities was approximately £53.03 millions. The figure for the present financial year has been estimated at £54.7 millions. Of the £53.03 millions for last year, the State contributed £22.35 millions or 42.1 per cent. by way of grants and the State's share of the estimated expenditure in the year 1960/61 is £23.6 millions or 43.1 per cent. of the total. When account is taken of other miscellaneous receipts such as rents from property, and repayments by borrowers of loans made to them under the Small Dwellings (Acquisition) Acts, et cetera, the net amounts falling on local rates last year and this year are estimated to be £21.42 millions or 40.4 per cent. and £21.9 million or 40 per cent. respectively. The State is therefore contributing more towards the cost of local services than the local authorities themselves are levying by way of rates. This position, which has now prevailed for a number of years, compares very faourably for the local authorities with that obtaining in pre-war years when State grants came to only 75 per cent. approximately of the total amount of rates collected.

While total revenue expenditure has been increasing the downward trend in the level of capital expenditure has continued. The decrease in the year 1959/60 has however not been so marked as in the previous few years. Capital expenditure in that year was approximately £8.52 millions as against £8.82 millions in 1958/59 and £10.303 millions in 1957/58.

The total indebtedness of local authorities after deducting sums for debt redemption was £145 millions at 31st March last.

I move:

"That the Estimate be referred back for reconsideration."

Approximately an hour ago, a former Minister for Local Government, the Minister for Agriculture, talked about the time spent in preparing dry speeches for Estimates. If ever we heard a dry speech on an Estimate, we have just listened to it.

The Deputy is jealous.

Am I beginning to hurt already? Sitting back and listening carefully, what are the two things that strike one about the speech we have just heard? The two things that struck me were that the Minister advised local authorities to set up sections of engineering staff specialising in various branches and to recruit more engineers. I thought we had reached the stage where we knew what is urgent in local authorities without seeking the advice or recommendations of the Minister to increase the already over-burdened rates by the recruitment of additional professional men to the staffs of local authorities. That was the first point that struck me. The second was that the Minister has set up another committee, an inter-Departmental committee, to deal with many aspects of the provision of water and sewerage schemes for rural dwellers.

Those were the only two things that struck me about the entire speech of the Minister. I had hoped he would say something about his intention in regard to the Local Authorities (Works) Act. Last year on the Estimates we had a token provision of £5. We all hoped that that token provision might suggest a Supplementary Estimate later and that some scheme to revive that Act would be introduced by the Minister. Last December, some Deputies tabled a motion requesting the Minister to provide moneys under the Local Authorities (Works) Act and it was debated here for almost two days and the Minister at that time told us that his colleague, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance would introduce a scheme to replace the Local Authorities (Works) Act. We have heard nothing about it since.

That Act as every Deputy from rural Ireland knows, was most valuable. It was introduced by one of the Minister's predecessors, the late Deputy Murphy, when he was Minister for Local Government. It gave considerable employment and it was never more badly needed in rural Ireland than it is today. The number of people employed on road works is falling each year. Under minor relief schemes, no provision is made for drainage such as that which could have been provided under the Local (Works) Act and I beg the Minister to put aside his prejudice against the Act, which was a most useful one and of considerable benefit to all local authorities.

I was disappointed that the Minister could not tell us more about his intention in regard to the Road Traffic Bill. He says now that he has received proposals and that they are being considered but that they will take some time to draft. The Government, were they to run their full term, have only about 20 months or less to run, and if we have not yet drafted the proposals, there is no hope of getting a Road Traffic Act during the lifetime of the present Dáil. I am surprised that the Minister should make such a statement because in 1957— that is a good while ago—when I had the privilege of introducing the Estimate for Local Government during the course of the debate the Taoiseach, then Deputy Lemass, intervened and said, as reported at column 1417, volume 157:

It may be of assistance to the Minister in this matter

—he was referring to road traffic—

to get from the representative of the Party in opposition an indication of the things we think should be done in order to bring about an improvement in the situation. First of all, there is the question of driving. We have come to the conclusion that it is wrong to allow a situation to continue in which any person can get a licence to take a vehicle on the road without being subjected to some test—first of all, a test of his competency to control the vehicle, and secondly a test of his knowledge of the road regulations.

It is evident from the Taoiseach's speech of 5th June, 1956, that the Fianna Fáil Party had then considered this entire matter and that they had decided on the major amendments which they should and would introduce to the Road Traffic Bill. I assured Deputy Lemass at the time that the problem was one which was worrying the then Government, so much that a sub-committee of the Cabinet, consisting of two Ministers and the Parliamentary Secretary, were actively engaged in the drafting of a Road Traffic Bill. He accepted my assurance and it was given in the knowledge that such a Bill was then in draft. Here we find ourselves four years later and the Minister says that proposals for the amendment of road traffic legislation will take some time to consider and draft.

We have not even yet reached the drafting stage: we are merely at the considering stage. I am afraid we may throw our hats at an amendment of the road traffic legislation during the life of the present Dáil. This is a very serious problem because the Minister has told us that for a number of years past the number of motor vehicles on the roads has increased from over 100,000 to over 300,000 and is still increasing. Despite that, we are still considering proposals that have been received. I charge the Minister with wilful neglect so far as road traffic legislation is concerned. I think he should have accepted the advice of his leader and given the matter consideration even prior to consideration of the amendment of the Constitution—which we spent months debating here—and also priority over other legislation of which we have heard quite a lot, for instance, the Intoxicating Liquor Bill.

The Minister told us that there are increased grants from the Road Fund. We would expect that. The Road Fund is increasing annually and it is but right that there should be increased grants. He has given the mileage of county and main roads which require repairs. I might say in passing that I am surprised to see a system now creeping in, particularly in some northern counties, of applying some material to the roads which is causing considerable dust and giving rise to complaint from many motorists, particularly from visitors to the country.

That is stone from Donegal.

I am not referring to Donegal. I am referring particularly to county Cavan. It appears that whatever material is being added for drying purposes is causing the trouble.

I know motorists who have arrived in Dublin and who have had their clothes and cars completely covered, to the depth of over an inch on the car, with dust. That is a matter which the Department should look into very carefully.

Again, I am surprised that the Minister has gone back to this old policy of constructing boulevards. He has rightly indicated the number of county roads which needs repairs, tar and the application of some dust-free dressing. There is a number of them as yet. Even some of the main roads, particularly in County Clare, have not yet seen a coat of tar. I would have liked to see the Minister under his Estimate give a greater grant towards these county roads and forget about constructing the boulevards for which Fianna Fáil appear to have such a liking.

I was very glad indeed to read the election manifesto of some of the Sinn Féin candidates who have as one of the items in their programme the policy of the inter-Party Government, namely, the expenditure of more money on county roads and less on the building of speedways. It is a good thing to see that others are in agreement with the policy initiated by us when in office. It is certainly a policy which should be and, I am sure, will be acceptable to the people, particularly to members of local authorities in rural Ireland who are aware of these serious problems.

The Minister has told us about the grants now available for the installation of water and sewerage in private dwellings throughout rural Ireland. I wonder has he experience of applying for such grants or of the delay in procuring them. Has he any experience of the expense incurred by the local authority and the State in providing such grants?

I know a person in rural Ireland who applied for a sewerage and water grant in the month of October last. The job was completed in the month of February, sanction having been received in the month of December. Inspectors visited his house on five different occasions before a grant of £70 would be paid to him. I am willing to bet that the expense of bringing those gentlemen to his house on five different occasions far exceeds the amount of the grant which he will get.

There should be some liaison between the local authority and the Department to obviate overlapping in visiting and inspecting for the purposes of those grants. For instance, I understand it is necessary that the applicant's house should be over 100 feet from the main water supply in order that he may receive a grant and that a certificate must be produced from the local authority that such is the position, that when that certificate has been obtained after a visit by a local authority inspector, the Department's inspector arrives. It should not be too difficult for him to be in a position to certify that the dwelling house is over 100 feet from the main supply and that the applicant is therefore eligible for the grant. The expense incurred in providing these facilities is out of all proportion to the good done by the provision of the grants.

I wonder if the Minister has any experience of the delay at the moment in procuring individual grants for building houses in rural Ireland. Prior to the Minister's assuming office we had appointed officers in each locality. Appointed officers made the preliminary inspection. They knew the locality. They assisted the applicant. For all that the applicant was required to pay a fee of only £2.2.0. Today the applicant must still pay the £2.2.0. but he does not receive the services which were provided by the appointed officer. We find that persons are refraining from seeking these grants owing to the difficulty which they would have in completing specifications and plans and the expense they would incur in employing architects. I would appeal to the Minister to revert to the old system of having local appointed officers and thus speed up the erection of new houses.

The Minister has talked a great deal about the progress in building. He has thrown out generalities. To get the facts one must refer to the figures which the Minister gave in connection with this matter. It is very significant indeed that the progress suggested by the Minister is not indicated when the figures are compared. For instance, take new houses built in the State in the years from 1952 to 1959. In 1952, by the end of the financial year, 12,674 houses were built. In 1953, 14,060 houses were built; in 1954, 11,179; in 1955, 10,490; in 1956, 9,837. In 1957, the last year in which the inter-Party Government were in office, 10,969 houses were built. Now let us take the first year of the Fianna Fáil Government. In 1958, 7,480 houses were built. In their second year, 1959, 4,893 houses were built—65 per cent. less than the number of houses built in the last year of the inter-Party Government.

Surely the Deputy will agree that the rate of building tapers off according as the housing requirements of the country are filled?

I am very glad that this innocent Deputy from Galway has told me that. Does the Deputy know that for years and years, day in and day out, I preached that from those benches and that the present Minister sitting over here—he was then a back bencher—said that I was sabotaging the whole housing programme? Deputy Briscoe said the very same thing. I said at that time that it was much better to taper off the building as we reached saturation and not continue building, suddenly come to a stop and throw all those in the building trade out of employment. Those were the words I used: "taper it off". This Minister and Deputy Briscoe told me it would take 10 years to satisfy the demand for houses but the Deputy, in his innocence, was unaware of that when he threw out this interjection.

Let us take the reconstruction of houses. In 1952, 2,292 houses were reconstructed: in 1953 2,573; and in 1954, 4,244. These were three years of Fianna Fáil Government. The inter-Party Government came into office and under a Fine Gael Minister, what happened? In 1955, 4,889 houses, an increase of nearly 650, were reconstructed; in 1956, 6,494 houses were reconstructed; and in the last year in which the inter-Party Government were in office, 8,147 houses were reconstructed. Fianna Fáil then returned to office and for the year ending March, 1958, the number fell to 7,162 and in 1959, it came down to 6,909.

If we take the all-over expenditure for the years 1955 to 1959, we find that for the financial year ending March, 1955, the total amount spent was £1,995,000; for 1956, £2,447,000; and for the last year in which the inter-Party Government were in office, £2,167,000 was spent. When Fianna Fáil came back to office, the figure dropped from over £2,000,000 to £1,500,000 and in 1959, it dropped from £1,527,000 to £1,230,000. I understand the estimate for this year is £1,700,000, far below the amount expended in the days of the inter-Party Government.

There is no use in our generalising. These are figures furnished by the Minister's Department and from these we shall see what has occurred. Take my own county. There is an Irish expression which says: Is glas iad na cnuic i bhfad uainn—distant hills are green. When a Minister of State says: "We are prosperous. We are on the right road", I always say: "Look at your own parish, your own townland and see how things are there." Therefore, I ask the Minister to look at his own county, in Donegal. What do we find? We find in Donegal in the year 1953-54 the total number of houses built, private and local authority, was 207; in 1954-55, 306; in 1955-56, 299; and in 1956-57, 249. Then the Minister came into office and in his first year in office, it fell to 170. He may have an excuse; he was only taking over. In the second year, 1958-59, the number fell to 157 and in 1959-60, it fell to an all-time low level of 138 houses. Is glas iad na cnuic i bhfad uainn, but when you get very near those hills, taking our own county of Donegal and find there is a fall from the last year of the inter-Party Government in the erection of private and local authority houses from 249 to 138, it makes one think.

It certainly does. We have been able to pay the grants you were unable to pay.

Will the Deputy tell me of one grant I did not pay? The Deputy is being a parrot and sometimes we cannot blame the parrot; we blame their teachers and the Deputy had a few dirty teachers. Thank goodness, one of them has gone. He is not around this House very much now. He is one of those who were busy black-guarding me about not paying grants. One of those is Deputy Briscoe.

Will the Deputy now listen to what is the position in regard to road workers in Donegal? In 1953-54, there were 1,109 road workers in Donegal; in 1954-55, there were 1,198; in 1955-56, there were 1,149; and in the last year in which I was in charge of the Department, there were 997. The figure fell to 913 in 1957-58, to 903 in 1958-59 and it is up by 30 this year to 936. Does that paint any picture in relation to all these increased grants of which the Minister speaks, grants for road work, grants for the building of houses? Where are the houses being built? Where is the money being spent? Where is the alternative employment to that given under the Local Authorities (Works) Act? I cannot find it anywhere. We used to hear quite a lot about financing of the Dublin Corporation in relation to houses. I was glad that the Minister ignored it today. I should have done it, too, but Deputy Briscoe, if I may use the expression, yapped about it so much in this House that sometimes he annoyed me.

Let us take a few figures. Expenditure from the Local Loans Fund and what was left over from capital issues of Dublin Corporation and Cork Corporation in 1956-57 was £14.4 million. In 1957-58, the first year of the present Government, when Fianna Fáil alleged they paid the debts of the Inter-Party Government, the amount was £11.8 million—from £14.4 million to £11.8 million. In 1958-59, it was £6.5 million and in 1959-60, it is the same, £6.5 million. Each year it has been less than half the expenditure of the inter-Party Government in their last two years of office, 1955-56 and 1956-57.

I remember distinctly, not only in this House but at conference after conference in the Custom House, begging local authorities to continue planning these long-term schemes of regional water supplies and sanitary services. I remember distinctly in this House and in the council chambers Fianna Fáil Deputies advising their local authorities: "Stop planning. There is no money to pay for it."

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 23rd June, 1960.
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