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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 27 Nov 1962

Vol. 198 No. 1

Committee on Finance. - Vote 23—Office of the Minister for Justice.

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on 31st March, 1963, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Justice including certain other services administered by that Office.

I propose, with the permission of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, and if it is agreeable to the House, to follow the practice of previous years and to deal with, as a group, the Votes for which the Minister for Justice is responsible, namely, Nos. 23 to 28, so that there may be one general discussion, without, of course, prejudicing the right of any Deputy to raise any particular point on a particular Vote.

The total Estimate for all the Votes for which I am responsible is £7,461,400, an increase of £685,590 over the amount estimated for the year 1961-62, though it will be remembered that a Supplementary Estimate of £70,000 was necessary under the Garda Vote for that year. The increase in the overall Estimate is due almost entirely to salary increases in the Garda Síochána and the Civil Service.

Before I go into detail on Vote 23 for the Office of the Minister for Justice, I should like to recall the fact that for the first half of the last financial year—from 1st April to October 11th—my predecessor, Mr. Oscar Traynor, was in charge of the Department of Justice. I know that I am expressing the opinion of all sides of the House in wishing him many years of happiness and prosperity in his retirement.

The secretariat of the Office of the Minister for Justice is not a very large one, nor is the cost very substantial, but I hope to be able to persuade the House that during the year under review, the taxpayer was given good value for his money.

My Department is responsible for the conditions under which the courts function and for providing the staff and other facilities necessary; the innumerable questions of pay, pension and conditions of service for our police force of about 6,500 members, the investigation of complaints and the issue of comprehensive instructions in relation to their functions. There are administrative duties in connection with the functioning of the prisons, the Land Registry and Registry of Deeds, and there is quite a lot to be done in connection with the interpretation and enforcement of a large number of Statutes connected with the control of aliens and the granting of citizenship, the control of firearms and explosives, the control of betting and gaming, censorship of books and films, adoption of children, the operation of the licensing laws and so on and so on.

In the international field, my Department engages in the study of a multiplicity of international conventions and agreements such as, for example, the European Convention on Human Rights and a number of others dealing with consular rights, multiple nationality, inter-country adoption and the reciprocal treatment of nationals in countries which are Member states of the Council of Europe. Then there are quite a number of documents of the United Nations Organisation with which we are concerned, such as, for example, the Draft Declaration on Freedom of Information, the Draft Declaration on the Right of Asylum, the Convention on the Status of Stateless Persons; and, of course, many Articles of the Treaty of Rome are of fundamental concern to us.

When I first came to the Department, I came to the conclusion that it was very much understaffed and I found that the secretariat was able to carry on the day-to-day administration only with great difficulty and by working long hours. I found also that many worthwhile and desirable things could not be undertaken because of lack of resources. I wanted to see, for example, a programme of law reform on a wide scale, a re-examination of our penal system with emphasis on the causes and possible cures of juvenile delinquency, an examination of our probation system, a greatly accelerated programme of building of new houses and stations for the Garda Síochána, the provision of legal aid for poor persons in criminal cases and whether the costs of litigation could be substantially reduced.

It was obvious, therefore, that steps had to be taken to put the staff on a proper footing to do all that was required, that is, to keep the day-to-day administration functioning smoothly and, in addition, to initiate and systematically operate entirely new programmes in various fields. I have mentioned, at random, some of the matters which explain why the strength of the secretariat has been increased —and is still being increased—to enable it to complete what I consider is an essential, long-term programme for the Department of Justice.

As Deputies are aware, the programme of law reform envisaged for the next few years was set out comprehensively in a White Paper published last January. The aim of that programme is to provide our people with a suitable, adequate and modern system of law. In particular, it is intended that all our Statute Law will be contained in Acts of the Oireachtas. The implementation of this programme is being pursued steadily and systematically. The formulation of legislative proposals is proceeding apace and in other fields the ground is being cleared for future action by the establishment of various committees and commissions of inquiry.

In the year under review, the following Statutes promoted by my Department were passed by the Oireachtas: the Courts (Establishment and Constitution) Act, 1961; the Courts (Supplemental Provisions) Act, 1961; the Courts of Justice and Court Officers (Superannuation) Act, 1961; the Juries Act; the Charities Act; the Defamation Act; and the Civil Liability Act, all of 1961.

During the year also, the following Bills, which have since been enacted, were promoted:

The Short Titles Bill; the Coroners Consolidation Bill; the Legal Aid Bill; the Street Collections Bill; and the Intoxicating Liquor Bill. Work was continued on the following measures:

Official Secrets Bill; Statute Law Revision Bill; Registration of Titles Bill; Hotel Proprietors Bill; Malicious Injuries Bill; Extradition Bill; the Guardianship of Infants Bill and the Pawnbrokers Bill.

In addition, several Statutory Instruments were either made or were in the course of preparation. A committee of inquiry, under the chairmanship of a judge of the Supreme Court, has been established to inquire into the operation of the courts with a view, inter alia, to seeing whether the costs of litigation can be reduced, whether the convenience of the public and the efficient despatch of civil and criminal business can be secured by amending the law in relation to the jurisdiction of the various courts. This committee will examine whether the existing system of jury trials in civil actions and the system of taking depositions in the preliminary investigation of indictable offences should be abolished or modified. The system of law reporting in the Supreme and High Courts as well as the question of supplying copies of the judgments of these courts at lower costs than at present, have been under review.

A commission has been established to inquire into ground rents, as well as a committee to examine the law as to bankruptcy. An interdepartmental committee appointed by my predecessor to examine the law relating to compensation for malicious injuries are now engaged in the preparation of their report which I expect to receive before the end of November.

Turning to what I might describe as the ordinary day-to-day administration of my Department, I think that the financial year 1961-62 under review has been fruitful. The most important single achievement, from the point of view of law and order, was the ending of the futile, unlawful campaign of violence on the Border which had lasted since December 1956 and I would be very remiss if I did not say a very special word of thanks to the officers and men of the Garda Síochána in that connection. They carried out their onerous and exacting duties throughout this very difficult situation in an efficient, responsible and objective manner befitting the best traditions of the Force.

Last November, the Government took steps to have persons who were charged with offences against the State tried by a Special Criminal Court instead of by the ordinary criminal courts and in the next three months 31 persons were sentenced to terms of imprisonment. Early in February, I offered an arms amnesty, with good results. Later that month, the Border campaign terminated. In March, the Government made an Order foregoing the powers of detention exercisable under the Offences against the State Act, 1940 and later that month all the prisoners in custody for offences against the State were released. Furthermore, in regard to these prisoners the Government remitted all the forfeitures and disqualifications which they had incurred automatically on conviction. Last month, the Government, being satisfied that the ordinary courts were adequate to secure the effective administration of justice and the preservation of peace and order, made a proclamation declaring that Part V of the Offences against the State Act, 1939 is no longer in force and, as a consequence, the Special Criminal Court ceased to exist.

These decisions reflect the Government's hope and belief that we have, at long last, seen the end of this sorry chapter of our country's history. I know that it is the wish of every right-thinking person that we are finished, finally, with this kind of unlawful activity and that all those who have supported it will realise that they have been out of touch with the realities of our time. At the same time, I think it well to stress that the Government are determined not to permit any sort of illegal activity of this nature and, should the need arise, would again take whatever measures are necessary for this purpose.

The Adoption Board is continuing to handle a steady stream of applications for adoption orders. The number of Orders made in 1961 was 547, of which 255 were in respect of boys and 292 in respect of girls. Two hundred and sixty-eight orders were made in favour of adopters living in Dublin. I cannot speak too highly of the voluntary services of the members of this Board who have to devote a great deal of time to their duties. In order to facilitate adoption, the Board have made visits to Cork, Limerick, Sligo, Waterford and Wexford and, indeed, I am sure that they would be prepared to travel to any place where a group of adoption cases awaited hearing. If I mention, in particular, the names of the outgoing Chairman, District Justice O'Donoghue and Mr. William Fallon, I do so because I regretfully received their resignations during the year, they having served on the Board from its inception nine years ago. We are all greatly indebted to them for their public service. In this connection, I should like to mention also the very fine work which is being done by the adoption societies. Any member of the public who has any problem in regard to adoption should get in touch with one of these societies or directly with the Board.

During the year, there were 3,140 aliens who resided in the country for periods of three months or more. The corresponding figure for 1960 was 2,849. The largest numbers came from Germany, Italy, Holland, America and Spain, in that order. Over 43,000 aliens were allowed to land from abroad during the year as compared with slightly under 40,000 in the previous year. This figure does not include those who came through Britain who are estimated at another 20,000. This country and Britain exercise an interlocking system of control over aliens coming from abroad. Following on the coming into operation of new British regulations last July, the Government made the necessary arrangements to preserve the existing arrangements for travel, without formality, between this country and Britain. Fifty-six persons were naturalised as Irish citizens during the year.

The Film Censor examined 1,362 films in 1961 of which, 1,117 were passed—one on appeal—and 206 were passed with cuts—two were appeals against rejection. Thirty-nine films were rejected. The total footage examined was over 3,700,000, which was about 7 per cent. less than in the previous year and about 2? per cent below the 1959 figure.

The Censorship of Publications Board examined 631 books and 52 periodicals in 1961. Of these, 37 books were examined as a result of formal complaints and 594 were examined on reference from the customs authorities. The Board made 408 Prohibition Orders in respect of books and 43 in respect of periodical publications. Nineteen of the books had been the subject of Prohibition Orders in earlier years but, for technical reasons, it was necessary to make repeat Orders in respect of them. There were ten appeals in respect of books and two were allowed and there were six appeals in respect of periodical publications, one of which was allowed.

Criticisms are made from time to time of our system of censorship, and the manner in which it is operated. I do not think, however, that any responsible person, no matter how liberal-minded he may be, can deny that the world to-day is being inundated with a great tide of pornographic publications and indecent films. No Irish Government could, in conscience, ignore the effects the dissemination of such material in a widespread way must have on the minds, morals and general welfare of our people. The argument for some form of censorship is, in my opinion, unanswerable, though there may be some scope for honest disagreement on the form it should take.

There are some aspects of the present system which are often overlooked. To those who argue that the present system, on occasions, denies them the right of access to works of scientific or literary merit, I must point out that the Acts provide for the issue of permits by the Minister for Justice in appropriate cases. On the other hand, it is suggested that the Censorship Board ought to make many more Prohibition Orders or, alternatively, that the present system should be abandoned for a policy of prosecution against persons selling, or exposing for sale or distribution, unsavoury publications.

In this connection, it is relevant to point out that the Censorship Board have a statutory obligation to examine any complaint made to them in the prescribed manner in regard to any book or periodical. Out of 631 books, however, examined by the Board in 1961, only 37 were submitted by members of the general public. Furthermore, our common law provides that a charge can be brought for the publication—which includes sale—of an obscene book and the exercise of this right is not confined to the police. Any person may lay an information in the district court. The offence, which is an indictable one, may be disposed of summarily if the accused pleads guilty and if the Attorney General does not object, or may be tried on indictment at the suit of the Attorney General.

There is no easy solution to this problem of obscene and indecent publications. Nothing is perfect in an imperfect world, but, generally speaking, it can be argued that the Censorship Acts provide an adequate instrument for dealing with indecent publications. I think the very existence of the Board is, in itself, a protection from the worst efforts of the entrepreneurs in pornography. Parents and teachers can, of course, do a very great deal by supervising the reading of young people and developing in them a taste for good literature. Librarians, and those engaged in the trade, can also help. While there is no final solution, I think that if the legal safeguards provided by the State are backed by a full acceptance of their responsibilities by parents and others, we can obviate a great part of the danger and do a great deal to preserve our traditional standards and values.

Comhairle na Mire Gaile considered 33 cases during the year and awarded 41 certificates of bravery. The Garda Síochána were not found wanting when the occasion demanded and I had the very great pleasure of presenting the Scott award to five members of the Force for acts of bravery during the year.

The Public Record Office provides a very useful public service in making material of historical importance available to scholars and the general public. The fifth and final volume of the new, and it is to be hoped, definitive edition of the early Irish Statutes is due to appear shortly and work is going on in the preparation, for publication, of the Justiciary Roll for the years 1312 and 1313. I feel sure that it will please many of our medieval scholars to have this document available. The question of providing an extension of the Office for long-term storage purposes is still under consideration.

The Vote for the Office of the Minister for Justice has a new provision of £3,475 in Subhead D for the preparation and publication of legal text books. This money will be used to subsidise the preparation and publication of text books under the auspices of the Incorporated Council for Law Reporting of Ireland, and repayments to the Exchequer will be made from the proceeds of sales. The amount in this year's Estimate has been fixed in consultation with the Council by reference to some books which are already in preparation and which it is hoped will prove of real value to students and practitioners. The need for text books of our own has been painfully evident for some time and I hope that this financial help which I am providing will go some distance towards meeting the immediate problem.

I now pass on to the next Vote No. 24, that for the Garda Síochána. The estimated expenditure £6,459,290 is £478,970 up on the total Estimate for last year, that is, including a Supplementary Estimate of £70,000 approved in March last. By far the biggest increase is to be found in those subheads dealing with salaries and pensions. The estimate in respect of these subheads for the current year is £326,000 more than the original estimate and the supplementary estimate for last year. The main reason for the increase is that provision has to be made for the payment during the full 12 months period of the substantial increases operative from 1st November, 1961. The only other increase of any significance is to be found in Subhead H and is due to the purchase of additional transport and the replacement of existing vehicles in the Garda transport fleet.

I am glad to pay tribute to all ranks of the Force for the manner in which they worked to maintain peace and order throughout the country. We can never be complacent about crime but I think that there can be no doubt that the position in this country is relatively better than in any country that we know of. That is in great measure, due to the zeal and efficiency of the Force and I am glad to say that the Commissioner has assured me that the young men who are being recruited to-day are as keen in the performance of their duties as their more experienced colleagues who have given the country a reputation of having a police force second-to-none in the world.

The events which took place last November were, as Deputies will recall, the subject of a number of Parliamentary Questions and I made a full statement on the matter in the House on 15th November, 1961. I do not therefore propose to refer to it again at this stage, except in one particular respect. It became clear that the principal cause of discontent was the manner in which the representational machinery available to members of the Force had functioned, or rather failed to function, over the years. The Representative Body Regulations, made in 1926, were somewhat out-of-date, and some of the facilities provided in them had been allowed to fall into disuse, with the result that there was a serious lack of communication between members and those representing them. I arranged for the preparation of a new set of Representative Body Regulations, which would give individual members the greatest possible say in matters affecting their welfare, and I had personal consultations with representatives of the Gardaí before the making of the new Regulations.

The Representative Body Regulations made last April provide for three separate bodies to represent (1) chief superintendents and superintendents, (2) inspectors, station sergeants and sergeants, and (3) Gardaí. The regulations provide that, normally, each group will sit separately. Provision is made, however, whereby the bodies may sit jointly for special purposes where arrangements in that regard have been made formally in advance. In addition to their Representative Bodies, the three groups I have mentioned have district committees, divisional committees and area committees to represent them at local level. Elections are by secret ballot.

The Representative Bodies will hold office for three years, they will meet at least twice a year and at such other times as the Commissioner may request or approve. In addition, the district committees, the divisional committees and the area committees will meet twice a year, and will be free, if they so wish, to admit ordinary members of the Force to all or portion of their meetings.

Provision is made for the election by the Representative Body for Guards of an executive committee to deal with the work of their Representative Body between meetings. The Guards have the whole-time services of a Garda as their secretary. There is also provision, subject to the Commissioner's approval, for the engagement by the Representative Bodies, of an outside consultant to advise them on such matters as pay claims.

I should like to remove a misconception that has been widespread, apparently, throughout the Force in connection with the proceedings under the Garda conciliation and arbitration scheme. There is nothing to prevent any of the Representative Bodies from consulting, in advance, all their members, if they so wish, as to the nature of a claim to be brought under the Scheme, that is as to the amount of salary to be claimed or as to the arguments to be advanced in support of a claim. Similarly, there has been agreement since the first meeting of the Conciliation Council held in June, 1959, that the Garda Side is free to consult the Representative Body as to whether or not a particular offer should be accepted. Meetings of the Conciliation Council can be adjourned for the purpose of such consultation subject, of course, to the preservation of the confidential nature of any offer made under the Scheme.

The practice up to now has been for the Joint Representative Body to nominate a composite group to negotiate their claims but as far as the State is concerned there is no reason why, at conciliation and arbitration proceedings, the case for Guards cannot be argued entirely by Guards, the case for NCO's by NCO's and the case for officers by officers. The provisions of the conciliation and arbitration scheme have been amended to make it clear that each body can negotiate its own case.

Before leaving this matter, I should like to reiterate that if it should appear at any time that the new machinery can or should be improved in any way I shall not hesitate to do whatever may be required in this regard. I should like also at this stage to pay a sincere tribute and to express my personal thanks to the members of the ad hoc committee, which I set up to assist and advise in the establishment of the new machinery, for the wonderful work they did.

Many Deputies will, I am sure, have noticed that the Force has recently been making great efforts to revive sport and athletics in the ranks. This is something which I am very happy to see and I have told the Commissioner that the Force has my full support in these efforts. A central committee, known as Coiste Siamsa, and comprising representatives of all the different sports, has been established under the chairmanship of a senior headquarters officer. I think it would be a very good thing if every young Garda were to take part in some sport. This can have very beneficial results, not only for the individual Garda himself but also for the prestige and morale of the Force as a whole. As I have said before, there is no better way for the members of the Force to win the respect and admiration of our young people than by excelling in sport. In particular, it is highly desirable that each individual member of the Garda should become proficient in swimming and life-saving and very real progress is, I understand, being made in this regard.

I am assured that the morale of the Force generally is very high, that discipline is excellent and that a very good spirit prevails at all levels. It is only to be expected that in a Force of a about six and a half thousand men there will be a certain amount of dissatisfaction from time to time. I regard it as my responsibility to see to it that there should not be any dissatisfaction on a large scale and that everything possible should be done to remove any reasonable grounds for dissatisfaction. In this connection the low figures for resignations from the Force are reassuring. In 1961, a total of 44 members resigned for reasons other than going out on pension, a very small figure indeed for a Force of that size. To take similar figures for previous years at random: 64 members resigned in 1956 and 43 in 1955.

The Force argued for years that pay should be settled through conciliation and arbitration machinery and this is now the position. Through the conciliation and arbitration machinery, the Gardaí have negotiated three settlements: at arbitration in April, 1960, they received an increase of over £500,000 per annum; in December, 1960, at conciliation, they negotiated the conversion of rent allowance into pensionable pay with an increase of over £150,000 per annum; and in October, 1961, they negotiated a pay settlement with an increase of about £400,000 per annum. On the last occasion in October, 1961, the Garda side recorded "their appreciation of the courteous and helpful manner in which their claims had been dealt with by the official side". I mention this matter to dispel any idea, that anyone may have, that the negotiations have not been conducted in a fair and just manner.

In January, 1962, the Garda side lodged a new claim for pay which, if conceded, would cost the State a further sum of the order of £750,000 per annum in pay and pension. The claim was discussed at conciliation level and was subsequently submitted by the Garda Side for reference to arbitration. Later the Representative Bodies requested the withdrawal of the claim and stated that they intended to submit separate claims. The first of these claims—from the Officers Representative Body—was received towards the end of September last and is being dealt with in accordance with the provisions of the scheme.

During 1961, the total wastage from the Force was 374, which included 269 retirements on pension and 40 deaths. In the same period, 400 recruits were taken on. At the start of the present financial year, the total wastage was estimated at 373 and provision was made for an intake of 400 recruits, including 12 women. Not all of these recruits are being taken on, however, as in the meanwhile Gardaí who had been doing special duty near the Border have been reassigned to their permanent stations.

The policy of motorising the Force continues and it is proposed to acquire this year about 50 new motor cycles for use in country sub-districts. The Garda Force will then be equipped for crime and road traffic duties with over 200 cars and 150 motor cycles. Simultaneously, the policy of closing down stations or reducing the station strengths in those cases where, by reason of the absence of crime, the sparsity of population, etc., such reductions can be made without detriment to police efficiency is being continued. I am fully aware of the value of the man on the beat in the cities, and of the man on the bicycle in rural areas, but there is no point in locating members of the force in areas where they have practically nothing to do and where their living quarters may not be very good when their services are badly needed elsewhere. Where I am satisfied that economy and efficiency are served by closing or reducing a station, I feel that I have no option but to do so. In the past financial year, three stations were closed and eight reduced to one-man units.

With an increased use of the radio communications system, telephones and the use of motors and motorcycles, I anticipate that the policing of the State may be able to be carried out in a few years' time with some reduction in man-power without any reduction of efficiency. The present strength of six and a half thousand police in over 700 stations does seem to leave a margin for compression but I propose to hasten slowly before making any radical changes.

The provision of suitable, adequate accommodation is a matter which has a vitally important bearing on the welfare of the Force and I am glad to say that we are making very real progress in this regard. At the moment work is in progress on the erection of 16 stations outside Dublin; work on a further 10 is expected to start before the end of the present financial year: in Dublin the reconstruction of the Bridewell has been completed and a new station at Cabra, which is in course of erection, is expected to be completed by next June. In addition sites have been acquired at Rathmines, Crumlin and Raheny, and have either been acquired or are in course of negotiation for 60 or 70 country stations. Each new country station will have attached one or two sets of married quarters and my target is about 230 such stations in various parts of the country.

Side by side with the erection of station units will go the building of houses for Gardaí and their families and the National Building Agency has begun to implement an ambitious programme of such building. The Agency has inspected and has acquired—or is in course of acquiring—sites for 300 houses. Tenders have been accepted for 76 houses and work on about 30 is in progress. It is expected that by Christmas contracts will have been placed for over 100 houses. Work on the erection of a new Garda training depot at Templemore began in June, 1961, and it is hoped that the building will be ready for occupation before this time next year. I should say here, by way of explanation, that the Estimate for the cost of the erection and repair of Garda stations is to be found in the Vote for the Office of Public Works, which, this year, has provision for the building of 29 new Garda station units.

I should now like to say something on the general subject of crime. The report of the Commissioner, Garda Síochána, on crime for the year ended September 30th, 1961, which, for convenience, I shall call 1961, shows that the overall figure for indictable or serious crime fell to 14,818, as compared with 15,375 in the previous year, and represents a drop of 17 per cent, on the very high figure of 17,865 for 1959. On closer inspection of the report, however, it becomes clear that the drop was confined to the category of offences usually referred to as offences against property without violence, that is, larcenies, in the main, which fell from 11,470 to 10,623 and within that category, the decrease was attributable to a drop of almost 700 in larcenies of pedal cycles and over 200 in larcenies from unattended vehicles.

There was, on the other hand, actually an increase in the number of crimes involving violence against persons and property. Eight murders were committed during the year of which two still remain to be solved and the number of housebreakings of business premises rose by 300. The overall detection rate was 66 per cent. and, at that was 6 per cent higher than the previous year and 16 per cent. higher than the rate in 1959. In fact, it was the highest since 1937, and compares more than favourably with the figures for other countries. It is interesting to note that the drop in the total number of crimes was confined to Dublin where the figure, 7,684, was 12 per cent. less than that for the previous year, which, in turn, was 22 per cent. down on the figure for 1959. The number of crimes committed in 1961 in other areas, 7,134, was actually 8 per cent. more than the figure for 1960.

There is nothing disturbing in this increase in areas outside Dublin. The increase does not represent a crime wave in any particular area, and I have no reason to think that the increase is in any way connected either with a falling off in Garda activity or the number of Gardaí in any particular district. In fact the number of Gardaí in Dublin city at 1,750 is a peak figure. Provisional figures for the year ended 30th September, 1962, indicate that the total of indictable crimes in that year was slightly higher than that for the previous year. The increase is, again, confined to the areas outside Dublin where the number of known offences rose to 7,659. The figures for Dublin rose very slightly to 7,702.

I should like at this stage to refer, for purposes of allaying to some extent a certain amount of public uneasiness and disquiet which I know exists, to the manner in which some newspapers feature sensationally anything to do with crimes of violence. In Dublin last year, the newspapers featured five cases of attacks on women and girls and four cases of assaults and robberies, none of which took place. These newspaper accounts were based on false stories by the alleged victims of incidents which when "splashed" by the newspapers, caused a certain amount of public alarm. In some of these cases, the persons making the allegations were in a state of mental ill-health and in others, they were prosecuted subsequently on charges of creating a public mischief. I know that newspapers have a very difficult problem in relation to cases of this sort and that they would not knowingly publish a misleading story. I can only appeal to them, therefore, to treat this type of story with caution and to make every effort to check their authenticity before publication.

Progress reported: Committee to sit again.
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