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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 30 Jan 1963

Vol. 199 No. 5

Private Members' Business. - Referendum on EEC Membership Conditions: Motion.

I move:

In view of the far-reaching changes implicit in Ireland's proposed membership of EEC, Dáil Éireann is of opinion that the conditions of membership, before being accepted, should be submitted for decision by the people by way of referendum.

For many years now, the position here in Ireland has been that the Taoiseach has tried to lord it over political affairs generally and to suggest that he is the infallible, final arbiter of all matters relating to industry and business and political affairs generally. In recent years, as his power has grown, so has his arrogance and so has his virtual claim to infallibility. Whenever he makes any statement now, it has virtually to be accepted, or else he brings into action all the overt and covert weapons at his disposal in order to eliminate opposition to his views. In the past 18 months, he has attempted to steamroll through the country an attitude or a policy in relation to the economic pattern here which is a complete reversal of the policy which he has advocated for over 30 years, the policy of protectionism.

It seems to me that he was forced to take this decision to advocate the removal of protection, the removal of tariffs which had been his favourite policy for so long, because it had been impossible for him to conceal from the public that far from being a competent or efficient or able administrator, or architect of a viable industrial arm for Ireland, he had in fact been a most disastrous failure and had been unable to conceal this fact from the public by virtue of two simple devices. One was his failure to create an efficient industrial arm. This has resulted in approximately eight per cent. to 11 per cent. people unemployed on an average over all those years. In addition to that, anything up to between 750,000 people and 1,000,000 people have had to get out.

That was the measure of his failure over the years but the failure was concealed from the public and for that reason he was able to go on as if in fact he had been a successful Minister for Industry and Commerce and had created a viable industrial arm in this country. Now the moment of truth for the Taoiseach came when he was faced with the decision of whether he would look for full membership or associate membership of the EEC, whether he would go in with the big boys or go into the junior school, as he saw it. When the time came to look for membership of the EEC, it was quite clear to him that full membership was the important justification of his political virility. It became that in his mind and for that reason he rejected any suggestion that he might consider the desirablility of associate membership with certain advantages —which I hope to outline later on —as opposed to full membership and the great dangers involved for our people, particularly in respect of the creation of avoidable unemployment which would follow from insisting on becoming a full member. To him, our becoming a full member clearly would establish that Ireland had become an independent country, with an independent viable economy which could sustain any industrial or business opposition from even the most powerful concerns in Europe.

In volume 197, No. 6, of the Official Reports, at column 923, we asked the Taoiseach whether we would look for associate rather than full membership of EEC and we suggested that Ireland was not economically ready for full membership. The Taoiseach replied:

I reject the implication in the Question that Ireland is an economically backward country, unable to assume the obligations of membership of the European Economic Community.

This is the first question I ask the Taoiseach: does he still believe that to be true? Does he still believe that we are economically able to assume the obligations of membership of the European Economic Community? If he believes that, all right; let him get on with it and pursue his application in Brussels. It is standing there in our name and it is an application for full membership. He thinks we are capable of membership; he did only a couple of months ago on 30th November, 1962. I suggest he was bluffing then and I suggest he knew he was bluffing and that he was trying to mislead this House and the people. The best proof of that is now that the British application has been completed. That was another line which he had, the undertaking he gave us that:

When the negotiations with Britain have been concluded, it is expected that the negotiations with the other three applicants for membership will be disposed of quickly and will be completed about the same time.

What is the present position? What is the Taoiseach going to do about our application for full membership? The British application has been dealt with and now it is up to the Taoiseach to show the country that he was genuine in his belief that we could seek full membership as soon as the British application was dealt with. I suggest that that again was part of the Taoiseach's bluff which over the years he has succeeded in getting away with by creating a suggestion of efficiency. Of course, he happened to be the one-eyed king in the land of the blind. That was his position, but all the time he has been operating on the assumption that he would not be faced with this particular predicament and that he would be able to get in under cover of the British application, it having been accepted.

It is rather like the story of the wren and the eagle and the wren saying that he could fly higher than the eagle and when it came to the test, the eagle to his amazement found the wren was a few feet above him. How did it happen? The wren went up in the tail-feathers of the eagle and that is what the Taoiseach hoped would happen, that he would be spirited in quietly behind the British application and that he would then be accepted as part of the whole British economic unit. Now, he is faced with this moment of truth and in spite of the fact that the British eagle did not become airborne, he is faced with the position of either repudiating his former statement that we were fit for full membership or looking for some alternative from of membership. His difficulty now is that he cannot look even for associate membership because he was so short-tempered with the whole idea of associate membership that he does not appear to us to have given it any serious consideration.

We have brought this motion before the House because it is quite clear from the Taoiseach's statement to the House that he intends to carry on with this bluff and continue with this idea that we should be in a position to seek full membership. Quite obviously, he is hoping that the people's memory of his application and of his assertions about our ability to go in will fade away and that in time the people will forget that we ever looked for full membership and by manipulation of the communications system here which he so regidly controls, radio and television and newspapers and other media that he has at his disposal, he will be able to create the idea that he never in fact intended to look for full membership, and any arrangement that the British come to for their own salvation he will accept and become part of it and then the whole thing will be forgotten.

One of the most disturbing factors in this whole campaign by the Taoiseach has been his remarkable success in hypnotising virtually all the political commentators, these self-styled and so-called economists with very few exceptions, the newspapers, the radio writers, the business men, chambers of commerce, European economic movements and all these organisations all over the country into believing this great mirage built up by the Taoiseach through his public relations officers that we were in a position to decide when we would go in, what we would do and so on. We had to make, of course, some adaptations and then we would be readily accepted by General de Gaulle. I do not think it rested finally with de Gaulle as far as we were concerned. I do not think the decision would rest with him but would rest rather on the simple case of our position of political ineptitude and the fact that we could not be accepted into a cartelised society of this kind with very high-level, highly-efficient industries and survive and, in our own interests, they would find it impossible to give us admission.

We have only to look at the present position of trade to see what that position is: our decreasing exports, the decrease in national output, the fact that we still have a declining employment figure and substantial emigration. This is not a picture that we believe could fool anybody into accepting this community and saying: "This is an efficient society which is ready to measure itself against, say, Belgium, West Germany, France or Italy." I can only say it is the dream of a madman. Anybody who faces those realities and says we could measure up on equal terms to these communities is obviously a person who lives in a fanciful world of his own. It is, of course, an end-product of the Taoiseach's living in the virtually closed society which we have, an uncritical society, a society in which the person who does object is immediately slandered, hounded down or generally blackguarded by those whose actions he is merely questioning.

One of the most disturbing things is the fact that the Taoiseach has been allowed to get away with this in a completely uncritical way by the main Opposition Party. I can appreciate that Deputy Dillon has always wanted European association and so on but I believe, in the interests of democracy, he had a responsibility to put the other side of the question to the public and let them decide on its merits. I cannot really expect the Taoiseach to do that. It was not his job but I think the Leader of the Opposition had a responsibility to say: "While what the Taoiseach says has certain merits, we believe there is another side to the picture."

There was a good case for showing that, in fact, there would be very considerable unemployment as a result of seeking full membership, that is, seeking dismantlement of tariffs by 1967 or whatever it might be, rather than seeking associate membership and getting between 12 and 22 years for tariff dismantlement and so allowing Irish industry to adapt itself. I do not give two snaps of the fingers for Irish industry—I do not believe in private enterprise industry—but I believe there would be very great hardship imposed on the people if there were this sudden throwing open of our industries to this overwhelming competition from Europe.

I believe this to be true. This idea has been reinforced by the Government's findings in the CIO reports which I think make very gloomy reading but which, I think, expose better than anything else—even though they are not carried out as efficiently as they might be for reasons which do not enter into consideration now-the fact that Irish industry is very unprepared as it is at the moment for competition from Europe. Two out of three of the reports so far published disclose that about 40 per cent. of those engaged in manufacturing industries will be declared redundant as a result of closures. The various CIO reports tell this story. In the boot and shoe industry, about 1,000 will go and in the pulp and paperboard industry, about another 1,000. In the motor-car industry, there will be about 2,000, plus another couple of thousand in ancillary or feeder industries.

While, as I say, two out of three reports show 40 per cent. redundancy, the third shows a closure altogether so that the figure of 40 per cent. was reasonable. It could amount to anything up to 100,000 disemployed as a result of this decision. That would cause fantastic hardship for many people and their families and I think it was an irresponsible action on the part of the Taoiseach to take that decision without trying to ameliorate it in some way. That could have been done by seeking associate rather than full membership.

There is no use in saying, as Ministers have been saying: "We will find work for these people or we shall have work for them." If the Government believe that to be the truth—I do not think they do; it is a further part of their bluff—why not start practising? There are 63,000 unemployed at present and 23,000 had to emigrate last year. The Government could start practising finding work or alternative employment for those 86,000 people. Surely the Government cannot continue to believe they will get away with it and confound Abraham Lincoln's dictum: "You cannot fool all the people all the time." Do the Government believe that they can fool all the people the whole time? I believe they have come to the end of that era of misleading people and miscalculating on their continued credulity.

It can be demonstrated, and I shall take the opportunity of doing it in the fuller debate, that the Taoiseach has been concealing facts from the public, misleading the public, serving the people half-truths and giving them generally a mish-mash of wishful thinking which bears no relation at all to the facts.

Probably one of the most shocking betrayals on the part of the Taoiseach was the decision to abandon military neutrality. The first information we had of this decision was given in a New York paper, that as a result of our application for full membership, according to the Taoiseach, it was essential. He had abandoned the policy we had over the past 40 years, a policy which had brought us prestige in the United Nations. Indeed, it was the only time we had any kind of reputation in world politics. But, suddenly, neutrality became a dirty word to the Taoiseach. While the Minister for External Affairs, at one end of New York was advocating that we should not take sides in the Cold War and should not look for Polaris or any other kind of missiles, at the other end of New York, the Taoiseach was offering Ireland for all these appalling installations concerned with the extension of the Cold War. This is the kind of hypocrisy that has done so much damage to the Irish cause.

The Taoiseach went on to suggest at that time, in making this departure from our accepted policy over the years—a policy which had paid wonderful dividends and had given us a measure of prestige in the world—that he saw no signs of public opinion opposed to this departure. This is not true. At one meeting I attended, at which there was a non-party type of platform, only half a dozen people in a room of 500 or 600 believed we should depart from neutrality. We have the declaration of the Taoiseach's former leader, Mr. de Valera, an extraordinarily sane sort of comment at Col. 930, Vol. 122 of the Official Report:

I want to make it quite clear to the House that so long as Partition exists there is no use talking to the Irish people about crusading for anybody.

There were various other similar remarks to the effect that, so far as we were concerned, we were neutral, and that neutrality is and continues to be a national policy.

In addition to that statement, there was a motion passed by the Trade Union Congress in Galway last June. In this they advocated two things: (1) that associate membership should be examined by the Government and, (2) that the Government should not take any other stand in regard to military commitments other than those involved in our membership of UNO. These two statements are important—Mr. de Valera's from the prestige point of view and that of the Trade Union Congress from the point of view of its membership and its representation in the country. But the Taoiseach simply pushes this aside and makes it appear as if there were no body of opinion at all opposed to his view. In addition, he indulged in one of the most scurrilous witch-hunting campaigns I have ever known here in attacking people like myself and Deputy McQuillan because we oppose——

You are Red.

Have you wakened up? Sorry to disturb your sleep. Go back again. He attacked us because we opposed this policy of the betrayal of our national policy over the years. He then took up this stand that, because we were a 99 per cent. Christian country and anti-Communist, we had to take this side. O.K. We have been a 99 per cent. Christian country since 1916. Why did we not take sides in the Cold War? It has been going on for 15 years. Why did we not join in the 1939-45 War? Why did we not take sides with Hitler when he went into Russia to fight Communism? What have we been doing all these years? Why did we suddenly waken up to this Christian mission we had in order to liberate Europe from this menace of Communism?

What is your position now in this new departure by General de Gaulle with this suggested plan from the Atlantic to the Urals between himself and Mr. Khrushchev? What are you going to do? Are you still going into Europe? General de Gaulle is the boss now. It is he who will determine the future pattern. Will you still look for full membership of an organisation which recognises as part of the organisation the USSR and all the satellites?

The Deputy should use the third person.

I am sorry. The Taoiseach has made the point that there is no need for a referendum because he discussed this matter in the last election. That is not true; or if it is true, what did he discuss? He discussed full membership presumably, because that is what he had in mind. He got a mandate from the people to go for full membership. Will he go for full membership? What is stopping him? He says we are economically and financially ready for it. He says that he has a mandate to look for it. The British negotiations are concluded. What is holding up the continuation of the Irish application for full membership?

On the other hand, if the Taoiseach did not get his mandate for full membership, what did he get? In fact, did he at any time in the general election —and I should be glad to hear any quotations he has—suggest that in addition to looking for full membership, he would look for the abandonment of neutrality? Has he got a mandate for that? We do not think he has. We do not think he is right in most of his decisions, and we are in the very fortunate position of being able to prove him wrong on many occasions in the past 18 months. He is not infallible. He has made very grave mistakes. The only word to describe him is an international mug. He went to all these countries and he said these people received him with open arms. They did nothing of the kind. They were just being polite. It was a case of ambassadors being polite to one another, of heads of State saying nice things to one another. As I said earlier, the Ritz Hotel is open to anybody, but only the wealthy can afford to go in. You can look for full membership if you like, and they would have no objection to our looking for full membership; but there is all the difference in the world between looking for full membership and getting it. There is all the difference in the world in the Taoiseach conveying to the public, by this suggestion that he had been received with open arms, that we would in fact get full membership.

He said here at Col. 1440, Vol. 197:

Negotiations on our application have not yet taken place.

Then follows:

Dr. Browne: Yet the Taoiseach is reasonably certain that we are getting in?

The Taoiseach: That is right.

Mr. Mullen: Without negotiations?

Dr. Browne: When the Taoiseach talks about membership in relation to Ireland, is he talking about full membership?

The Taoiseach: Yes, of course. That is all we are interested in.

We would like to know if he is still going to look for full membership. He tells us he has got the authority of the people to look for full membership, that he has got the country fully geared up to meet the stresses and strains of full membership when it comes. It is his belief that it will not mean any great dislocation of employment.

The Taoiseach attempted to create the idea in the public mind that this new EEC is going to remove trade barriers and to create a new Jerusalem in Europe of which we should all be members. There is no doubt that barriers are going to be removed by the member countries, but they are also going to be erected between the member countries and the third parties. This is not an extrovert society; this is not an outward-looking society. This is merely a re-grouping of the Belgian, French and, to some extent, German cartels, who want to have a good captive market in Europe in which to sell their goods at any price they like. That is all this is.

It is not a first step towards a World Government with which, of course, I would be in complete agreement. It is a cartelisation of European society directed against the poorer countries, the former colonial countries, the primary-producing countries who will not be able to send in their food and their raw materials in future. The cartel is directed against the EFTA countries. They tried to make an agreement with the cartel and they were told: "No go; we want to keep this little ring to ourselves."

Now the British are excluded and I am quite satisfied we are excluded. Perhaps now we will not be too ready to praise them as we once did when we thought it would make life very hard indeed to be excluded from it. It will not now get such high praise from all the members of the Government or from the Opposition as it got when we thought we would get in, that we would become a member of this wealthy men's club. Now we go to join the countries against which this cartel is directed, the primary-producing countries of Africa and the Middle East, countries which depended on Europe to buy their raw materials and with which they were building some sort of association for themselves.

We, the movers of this motion, thought it was possible and more desirable that we should look for associate membership under which it would be possible for us to get the advantages the Greeks have got from such form of association. There is no strict protocol about associate membership. The Greeks have been allowed access to the European Investment Bank to the extent of 25 million dollars, repayable over a 25-year period. They have access to the advantages of the free movement of capital and of labour. They have also got special concessions for their growing industries so that it will be possible for them to give these industries protection which they would not normally get. They also have access to such machinery as allows them, if they find themselves getting into any difficulties, to get help, should those difficulties arise.

It is quite clear there could have been no objection whatever to Ireland looking for associate membership if we had to look for membership of the European Economic Community at all. The only case Deputy Dillon strangely put up, and which was exploded today, was the suggestion that one must ultimately take full membership. That is not true and I think it is quite scandalous for the Leader of the Opposition to purvey that. It is just not true. There is no compulsion on a country to look for full membership at any time if it does not want to become a full member. The great advantage we then saw from associate membership was the extension of the period for tariff dismantling from between five and seven years to a period of between 12 and 22 years and the added advantage of associate membership of not being forced to abandon our neutrality.

As the Swedes foresaw, it is possible for a country to get associate membership and remain politically and militarily uncommitted. One of the suggestions as to why we should look for full membership was that we wanted to make a contribution towards the Christianisation of Europe. I should like to know what the Taoiseach now proposes when Europe has pretty bluntly told him they can get on very well without him and that they do not want his type of witch-hunting mentality in their organisation.

The Taoiseach said this was a wonderful opportunity for us to get into a colossal market, that if we could get into it, all our problems would be solved, as in the 30s, when he said: "Raise the tariff barriers and all our problems will be solved". Now he is saying: "Pull the barriers into Europe down and all our problems will be solved; there will be unlimited prosperity, untold markets". That is completely fallacious, because while the market in Europe represents a population of 170,000,000 the market which was available to us in various ways in the Commonwealth and in Great Britain represented 220,000,000. If it were a simple matter of having a big market in order to create a lot of wealth, then the market was there to be exploited. In fact, very few countries made any substantial inroads into this colossal Commonwealth market, despite the fact that they expanded their imports from time to time, as in the case of Pakistan and Australia, by nearly 100 per cent.

Again, there was not any doubt at all that while Britain and the Commonwealth found it important to get into that very big market, we must take Ireland with its population of 3,000,000 to Britain's 57,000,000. We had access, with Commonwealth preference, to a market sufficient for our needs. What did we do about it? We have not made any serious attempts to drive the Danes out of the British dairy produce market and it is quite clear that where some of our industries are subsidiaries, we shall never succeed in driving out the parent companies in Britain. It will be the same in relation to the other foreign countries who have started here.

On this question of the greater market, the Taoiseach's solution is as untrue as was his suggestion in the 30s, that all we had to do was put up the tariff barriers and that all our problems would be solved. There are many countries with small home markets who have created industries and, as in the cases of Switzerland, Sweden and Holland, have been able to solve the problem of the small home market. The basic weakness of our position over the past 30 years was the Taoiseach's partiality for the private enterprise capital system which as a result of exploiting the workers——

We cannot go into the question of private enterprise.

That was a basic miscalculation and I am suggesting that again the Taoiseach is guilty of a basic miscalculation. Whatever decisions he takes, as long as he retains this idea that it is possible to create a dynamic industrial arm here, using private enterprise capitalism, it will be bound to fail, no matter whether there are tariff barriers or not. If the Taoiseach intends going ahead with his proposals in relation to the Common Market, we who are responsible for this motion submit that the proposal should be put to the public for their consideration. We say the public should be asked whether we should go into the Common Market, whether we should go in as a full member, involving the abandonment of our neutrality, or whether they consider we should look for associate membership. We feel this should be the subject of a national plebiscite. It would be possible for both sides of the question to be put and we would have a decision taken by the public rather than by a minority here in this House.

It is quite clear, looking at the Taoiseach and his behaviour over the years, and recently it has been more exemplified by his arrogant impatience of any kind of questioning, that he completely dominates his own Cabinet. Consequently, what we really get here is the decision of an individual. That is a very unhealthy development of democracy here, and if the Taoiseach or Deputy Dillon were seriously interested in the promotion of the whole idea of democracy in the country, then they themselves would be very disturbed by the fact that the country as a whole has been virtually shown that its political leaders were unanimously wrong in their gross miscalculation of the position facing us in Europe and the attitude of the Europeans to our application.

I wish formally to second the motion and I reserve the right to speak later.

Does the Taoiseach intend to intervene?

I want to be very brief. It does seem to me that the value of Private Members' Time in this House is that Private Members, no matter how crackbrained their ideas may appear to be to the Taoiseach, or Government, will have an opportunity of bringing their views before the House and an opportunity of getting the responsible Minister to give the views of the Government with regard to those ideas. Consequently, I feel that it is deplorable for any Minister or Government and, in particular, for the Taoiseach to adopt the attitude in relation to a Private Member's motion that he does not intend intervening or indicating the Government's views.

So far as the motion itself is concerned, it is a great pity that Deputy Dr. Browne did not argue on its terms. He took the opportunity presented by this motion in the particular circumstances which exist at the moment of making a speech generally with regard to the Common Market and our position of preparedness or otherwise for it. It does not seem to me that that is all the kernel of the motion. The motion proposed is that the House should take the view that it is a question which should be submitted to the people in a referendum. I just want to say briefly that so far as my Party are concerned, we have considered the terms of this motion and we feel that it is not a motion which should command the support of the House.

I feel that if parliamentary democracy is to function here, it must function on the basis of Deputies representing their constituencies, representing the people and being prepared to shoulder the responsibility of coming to decisions with regard to matters of this sort that come before them. It is true, whether Deputy Dr. Browne recognises it or not, that this country's application for Common Market membership was in existence at the time of the last general election. It is true, whether Deputy Dr. Browne recognises it or not, that the views both of the present Government and of the Fine Gael Party with regard to that question were known.

I do not intend to say much more except that I was somewhat amazed at Deputy Dr. Browne's reasoning that when he was slating the Taoiseach about all sorts of things—and do not take me as defending the Taoiseach— he should say, in effect, that the tragedy of the position was that the Taoiseach was allowed to get away with it and that there was responsibility on the Leader of the Opposition to put the other side. He gave an example of what the Leader of the Opposition should say—that we believe this, that and the other.

What Deputy Dr. Browne is overlooking is that the Party, of which I am a member, would not believe the various things Deputy Dr. Browne suggested should be said by us. The fact of the matter is that Deputy Dr. Browne is quite right in indicating that one of the major factors in Irish politics recently has been the moving away by the present Government Party from their old doctrine of isolation. In doing that, they have to a very great extent become converted to the views preached from the Fine Gael Party consistently over the years, and I do not accept at all Deputy Dr. Browne's point of view that because the Taoiseach and the Fianna Fáil Party have suddenly decided that Fine Gael were right all over the years, Fine Gael should in turn turn turtle and start arguing on the premises which Fianna Fáil have now decided were false premises over the years.

Deputy Dr. Browne has given voice to criticism of the Opposition for not tackling the Government more sternly with regard to this question of Common Market membership. Our attitude—when I say "our", I am speaking for the Fine Gael Party—has been made clear by Deputy Dillon, both inside this House and outside it. We believe that it is the duty of a responsible Opposition to act in the way the Fine Gael Party have acted and that so long as the Government were doing what we thought it was right they should do, there was certainly no obligation—anything but an obligation—on the Fine Gael Party to harass or embarrass them while we considered them to be on the right road. I do not want to initiate any other discussion in this House, as Deputy Dr. Browne has, to a certain extent, but I should like to finish as I started, by saying I do feel there is some responsibility on the Taoiseach to make, at least, a contribution to this discussion.

Are we to get any word from the Taoiseach? Is he stricken dumb at this stage?

He has not heard what Mr. Macmillan said—it has not come through yet.

I call on Deputy McQuillan.

I reserved my right to speak. I shall give way immediately to the Taoiseach.

I shall give way to the Deputy. I shall not be outdone in courtesy.

That is a change.

In view of the seriousness the Taoiseach has helped to allow to develop, he should at this stage at least make an opening statement. Yesterday, during Question Time, I asked the Taoiseach if he was prepared to make a statement to the House on Ireland's position at the moment, arising from what had happened in connection with Britain's application for membership of the European Economic Community. He told me that he would make a statement as soon as possible. I questioned him further on whether such a statement would be made in this House. He refused to answer. He took the opportunity last night, away from this House, to fire the opening shots in a campaign that would lead the public to assume that he has not learned any lesson as a result of what has happened in Europe over the past few months. He repeated in this House today his sneering and contemptible references to de Gaulle.

I made no references.

Of course the Taoiseach did.

That is not true.

In the course of his speech last night——

I made no references to de Gaulle last night or tonight.

It is highlighted in two particular places in the daily papers, when the Taoiseach referred to the stratospherical politics that were being discussed and that he had no place in these. There was only one intention in the Taoiseach's mind at that stage: to suggest that de Gaulle was up in orbit in the stratosphere in connection with the whole question of the Common Market. I want to put it clearly to the Taoiseach that if de Gaulle was in that position, the Taoiseach was on the moon for the past 18 months and it is time that he came down to earth.

It is quite clear now that, in so far as the Taoiseach is concerned, the entire blame for the collapse of the British case will be pinned on the President of the French nation. That is the intention. However, the Taoiseach must remember that at no stage did Britain really accept the full terms of the Treaty of Rome; at no stage was the question of the position of the EFTA countries clarified; at no stage did Britain get a guarantee that the EFTA countries would be brought into the Common Market, if Britain were accepted, although Britain had given a solemn promise to her partners in EFTA that she would not join unless they came in. That has not been resolved. No vital decision was taken in regard to the farming interests, to the farmers' position in England on the freeing of the European market.

Thirdly, Britain had got no guarantees for New Zealand, India or the other members of the Commonwealth, and when de Gaulle said, as I think he was entitled to—I am sure he said it privately to Mr. Macmillan—"You have not got a mandate from the British people; you have lost five by-elections; it is quite clear the British people are not behind the British Government", here we have a leader who, with 20 or 30 years' of shrewd political experience behind him, was not able to look across the water at Britain and see that there was no certainty at all that Britain was going in. If we assume that he was studying the situation in Britain and that he had made a fair assessment, we can only assume that he, like Mr. Macmillan, was taking a gamble, too.

I want to make it clear that I believe this Government have been completely irresponsible in the indecent haste with which they pursued their application for admission to the Common Market. Our application was in before the British application. I wonder do the public remember that our Taoiseach did not even wait for the neighbouring State, which he suggests at the moment takes over 75 per cent. of our produce, to make their formal application. The Irish application was in beforehand.

I think it must be brought home to the public, in spite of what Deputy M. J. O'Higgins said here now, that Fianna Fáil have come over to the Fine Gael way of thinking. Both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have argued that, so far as the farmer in Ireland is concerned, the European market is going to provide a wonderful opening for Irish produce and that it is necessary for the Irish farmer to get into the open market in Europe for agriculture where he will have, as they said, an open door for the produce of the Irish land.

Let us see the position in 1938. Fianna Fáil went over to London and they made a trade agreement. They came back here and blew trumpets about the wonderful bargains they got for the Irish farmer. Fine Gael, here in this House, suggested that they would have done better and, in 1948, the inter-Party Government, led by Deputy Dillon, went over to London. They came back with a wonderful guaranteed market for Irish agricultural produce. In 1958, we had the Fianna Fáil Government going over again and making a trade agreement which affected Irish agriculture. On each occasion—this is the point I want to make—the Irish farmer was told: "We have brought back a wonderful bargain from Britain for you. We believe the British market is a first class market and we ask you to support us as a political Party for the wonderful negotiations which we have made on your behalf and for the achievements we have won."

What is the position today? Those two political Parties that competed with each other on the hustings in Ireland for the support of the Irish farmer, on the basis of the wonderful opening they got in Britain for Irish agricultural produce, are now saying that owing to depressed prices in Britain, we must get into Europe or the Irish farmer is lost. We have, to-day, in Britain a market of 50,000,000 people. In spite of the fact that in that market we have preferential treatment over the Danes, we are yet able to supply less than five per cent. of their requirements in pig meat and byproducts. The Danes are able to walk into Britain and beat us in that market. How are we going to beat the Danes in a European market when the barriers are down, if we are not able to supply more than five per cent. in a market that is wide open? Where are we going to bring the drive and initiative to help us to get into an inward-looking community in Europe, and inward-looking they are. There can be no doubt about it. If the Government are in doubt about it, I shall give Deputy MacEntee's views on this inward-looking group. Speaking on Saturday, 19th January, as reported in the Irish Times of January 21st, he said:

"Great opportunities are offered to those who are privileged to be members of the new European polity. The events of the past week had demonstrated the majestic range of those opportunities by the very jealousy with which they were guarded and the extreme reluctance of some to share them with those who had come late to seek them."

That is an assumption by the Tánaiste that it is a tightly-knit group and that the cold, keen businessmen of Europe will not be impressed by the blue eyes of Deputy Lemass or the big smile of Deputy Dillon. There was a market available to us in Britain for which we could not, in pig meats alone, produce more than five per cent. and we were trying to get into Europe where there was an open door. The door might be open in Europe but the house was full because the European nations are almost completely self-sufficient in the products that Irish farmers produce. The entrance was open but the room was full.

Debate adjourned.
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