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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 2 May 1963

Vol. 202 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Resolution No. 14—General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.—(Minister for Finance.)

It is easy to understand the attitude of Fine Gael because that Party is becoming known as the representative of the extreme Right. It is difficult, however, to understand the line taken by the Labour Party. As far as one can judge, the policy of that Party, presuming it has a policy, calls for more State intervention and State control. This policy of intervention and control by the State must inevitably lead to higher taxation, much of which would undoubtedly be beneficial in the long run. So it is very difficult to understand Labour Deputies' criticism of the Budget.

The turnover tax can be met without undue hardship on the workers. The money collected will be ploughed back to produce the sound economy from which every worker must benefit. The Budget provides for increased social welfare benefits of all kinds— children's allowances, old age pensions. All of these, I would imagine, would be welcome as good Labour legislation. One wonders if the Labour Party is representative of any interest.

I would ask the members of the Labour Party are they satisfied to follow the Fine Gael line and condemn every measure proposed by Fianna Fáil, irrespective of whether that measure confers benefits on the people or not? Every Budget introduced by this Government has been condemned —always in similar terms. Disaster and depression have been forecast by Opposition Deputies year after year. Yet, one has only to look around the city of Dublin to see how these prophets of doom have been confounded. New factories, new office blocks, all bear witness to the confidence inspired by Fianna Fáil legislation.

I must crave the indulgence of the Chair to allow me to refer briefly to the building industry which is now booming and towards which Dublin Corporation is making such tremendous contribution. As quickly as new ground and property can be acquired, flats and houses are being erected. The whole face of the city is being transformed, a testimony, I submit, to the healthy state of the economy. What is happening in Dublin is happening all over the country. This Budget is designed to ensure that the national economy remains healthy and, therefore, must be approved by the House.

No amount of skirting around issues and no amount of recapitulation of allegations of successes in the past will alter the fact that this is, plainly and simply, a bad Budget. No matter what effort is made to cloud the issues, the fact is inescapable that this Budget will have a direct impact on every section of the community and its heaviest impact will be on the section of the community least equipped to bear it.

I take it that the concept of a Budget is the indication of Government policy and that it is to act as the directive and the stimulant towards development, local and national. When considering this Budget, one has to analyse it in the light of a suggested pay pause to the worker, the catastrophic failure to get into the European Economic Community and present economic trends.

One has to ask oneself simply what contribution, other than the expression of pious and pietistic hopes, does this Budget make to the economy in a period when the Government are saying that we must have reorganisation and improvement of productive methods, a gearing and a stimulation of effort in industry if we are to meet free competition in a widening market. Can one find any answer that will be encouraging to the industrialists, that will stimulate agriculture? Despite Fianna Fáil thinking and, I am beginning to suspect, Civil Service thinking, agriculture still remains the basis on which any real expansion of production can be hoped for. We have to analyse this Budget in the light of the answers to these questions.

This Budget is typical of the inept, ageing Government, a Government bankrupt of new thinking. We can certainly say that the dead hand of Fianna Fáil is now stretched into every possible facet of economic life. If the Government had used this new taxation to alleviate substantially the lot of the people who need alleviation, and if in their approach to a breakdown of this iniquitous taxation, they had shown any forward thinking, then one could properly say that there was a new idea abroad, but what Fianna Fáil have achieved in this Budget is another milestone in their capacity to plunder the taxpayer.

This Budget may well be described, as it was described by Deputy Norton in an interjection, as a Dick Turpin Budget, a highwayman's budget, because in this piece of financial wizardry, the Minister is stretching his hand further and further into the wider field of economic endeavour. He is endeavouring to create a wide and far-flung voluntary type of tax collector. I did not expect that we would get anything startling or revolutionary from this Government, but in the light of the preaching about the necessity for expansion, the necessity for replacement and improvement of equipment, and the necessity for the worker having to face a time lag between the gearing up of production and getting a more remunerative reward for his labour, I thought we would get a forward thinking Budget. This Budget can be described only as a further atrophying of the economy and a further stultification of initiative.

The Government have the gross cheek to suggest to the worker that he should accept a pay pause in circumstances in which they are stretching out their hungry paw to grab more and more of the people's money and, as I hope to demonstrate before I finish, give less and less for it. I have always subscribed to the belief that the worker must inevitably, each time there is a direct impact on his cost of living, have recourse to a demand for a wage increase to compensate for it. There is no doubt—and no amount of shilly-shallying or loose thinking will alter the fact—that this Budget will have a direct and crippling impact on the cost of living of the worker, because no essential to human life is excluded from the Minister's hatchet this time. The Minister may try to suggest, in every way he likes, that he is not putting a tax on certain commodities, but the facts remain—and I hope they will be repeated not only in this House but everywhere people gather—that when this new turnover tax comes into operation, every item in the household budget will be hit. I am prepared to subscribe fully to the suggestion made by Deputy Norton that the impact on the worker, and on his wife buying small-priced commodities, will inevitably be in excess of the suggested 6d. in the £.

This Budget—the instrument which is meant to be the economic green light for the stimulation and encouragement of effort—starts off by saying to the worker: "We want you to accept a pay pause and, at the same time, accept a body blow to every home in the country." The more one considers the realities of the situation, the more one can find fault with the Budget. It is not only the new taxation, but also the direction of Government thinking that appals me. They have found a new and more ready manner of plundering the people. The Minister quite candidly boasted that it will be a most inexpensive tax to collect. That causes me to have the grave misgivings which I shall mention during the course of my speech.

This is only the start of a new pattern in which Fianna Fáil will preserve the full impact of the old taxes, and use the ever-increasing spiral of this tax to plunder more and more of the people's money. Quite candidly, I do not believe the Minister was as frank with the House as he might have been when dealing with the likely returns of this tax. I suggest to him—to put it no further—that he has given us a gross underestimation of what it will yield for four months. I can see him coming in here like a fairy godmother, having found the buoyancy of that taxation such that he will be able to plunder the people's money more and more and give less and less in real benefits to anyone.

This Budget cannot be described as anything but a retrograde Budget. The Chancellor of the Exchequer of our much criticised neighbour brought in a Budget which gave certain tax remissions and concessions to stimulate industry into greater effort, and which gave relief and very substantial help in areas where unemployment was developing and where there was a serious danger of depression spreading. What have we in this Budget to encourage anyone to greater effort or greater hope for the future? What have we in this Budget that will stimulate the effort which everyone seems to agree is necessary to modernise, expand and improve the production methods of our industry?

We are told by the Taoiseach that we have a further breathing space in which to overhaul our industry, to improve our methods and re-equip our industry. Can the Minister tell me in plain language what stimulus this Budget gives that effort, remembering that he is hitting them with what he euphemistically calls a "turnover tax" and, at the same time, condemning the worker, irrespective of the incidence of taxation on him, to some kind of wage restraint. Call it a "pay pause"—call it anything you like—it is merely another apparition of the spectre we saw here before, the spectre which played a mighty part before in putting Fianna Fáil out of office.

We are told we are to continue to gear ourselves for the wider market of the European Community. I remember when the Taoiseach came in here and, with assertive truculence, told us we were in and that, even if Britain did not get in, we would go it alone. I remember when some of us here sincerely and honestly questioned that, we were castigated as people who had not the national interest at heart. We were cool and deliberate enough to examine the background of the European Community, to analyse and assess Britain's position at the time of the Rome Treaty, to know a little bit about the continental temperament to realise that, in the light of the difficulties that arose at the initiation of the European Economic Community, there could be no question that the most stringent and rigid terms would apply to Britain's entry, terms so rigid that, as the rational thinking person appreciated, they would be unacceptable to both the group and Britain.

We are still being told it did not happen in 1962 and now the target is apparently 1970. We are getting, as the Minister for Health described it today, a breathing space in which to reorganise, to improve standards, to develop techniques and sales. To me, that is all so much hooev. We are refusing to face the realities. Our industry has not got the type of raw material intake that will enable it to become a competitor in a free market. The proposition is crystal-clear. If you have to import raw materials from a competitor country, process them here, and re-distribute them, how can you ever get yourself into the economic situation to compete with the manufacturer in the country of origin with the raw material at hand? I am getting absolutely sick and tired of spurious experts and economists who indulge in high-falutin language and esoteric statistics in order to keep away from the basic step of breaking down the cost of the raw material and the cost of production and then explaining how they hope that industry here can compete with industry in the countries of origin of the raw material our industry uses.

For too long have we refrained from considering industry here realistically in relation to our general economy. It is patently clear that the only successful industry here is industry based on the raw materials we ourselves have. It must inevitably be based on our agriculture. The so-called assembly industry is not real from the point of view of a free and competitive market. Too many industries here have been built behind protective tariff walls. I think it is now generally accepted that many of those who benefited behind the tariff wall may have succeeded in making money for themselves but have never succeeded in making any real contribution to our economy because they were never able to bring their industry to the level of efficiency and production which would constitute a real asset. With quantitative restrictions and protection, they were able to get away with a far from top-class article at a top-class price.

Rational thinkers appreciate now that it is virtually inevitable that in freer trading conditions, that type of industry must go to the wall. Fortunately for us, the employment content in such industry can be re-distributed with a reasonable effort. What I am anxious to see is industry developing on the raw materials available to us. With our forests now maturing, I want to see industry so geared here that the figures for immense quantities of imported timber and timber products that appear every year in the financial returns will be eliminated. I want to see the so-called industries which re-assemble goods here based in future on the raw materials to hand, improving their productive methods, improving quality, improving to the extent of making the cost of production competitive in the wider markets of the future. For some strange reason, while help can be got from the Government in quantitative restrictions or in tariff protection in relation to a mass of these assembly industries, no effort seems to be made to nurse along into a healthy condition the type of industry that can get its raw materials at home.

I have heard year after year the bleat about difficulties in relation to milk. When one surveys the economy of the world and looks at the shortage of milk and milk production in vast parts of the world, it is obvious that a processing industry in relation to dried milk and the by-products of milk, if it had been developed, would not only have found a big but a lucrative market in many parts of the world.

There are in this country very considerable by-products of our dairying industry. Milk, with certain chemical additives, could have become in powder form most readily saleable and valuable products for underdeveloped areas, for areas where there is a chronic shortage of milk and its by-products. However, all the emphasis has been on separating industry from agriculture instead of entwining the two as brothers in the economy. Undoubtedly, industry must always remain the smaller child of the economy because no matter how exports may twist reality, any break down of the export figures will show that it is agriculture that carries the real burden of our economy.

As I said in opening, the Budget is meant to be the instrument of economic thinking and on that basis this Budget is negative. What encouragement is there in this Budget for the person who wants to expand or develop his business? Not only is he running himself into the position of having to pay this iniquitous tax but of having to collect it and pay it over and he will not be able to write it off even as a deductible charge against the earning capacity of his business. To my mind, this is the very antithesis of stimulation but it is wider than that. This turnover tax goes into the fastnesses and farflung recesses of the retail trade and everybody from the huckster shop to the multiple store will face the impact.

One of the problems to be faced in the case of many of the smaller retail outlets is book-keeping. Any process other than the cash payment for goods and the general use of the till for the purposes of the living of the family and for the replenishment of stock does not exist. These people will be faced with the task of trying to collect a tax they do not understand and to do it by non-existent methods of assessing the turnover.

It goes further than that. It shows a new trend of thought, a new method of grinding. I listened on former occasions to the previous Taoiseach telling us that we had reached saturation point in regard to taxation. I heard the present Taoiseach assert that the burden of taxation had reached its zenith. When they get themselves into that cleft stick, the Government impose a turnover tax and suggest it is not taxation at all, even though it is an imposition not only on essential goods and other types of goods but also on services.

It must be remembered that this idea adopted by the Government was based on the recommendation of the Income Taxation Commission, but that Commission recommended the alleviation of certain iniquitous types of tax, as they considered them, by putting on a purchase tax on a wide range of goods other than the essentials. But no; the backroom boys got to work. They felt this was a good idea, but, they said: "Let us go further. Let us make it all embracing. Let it cover everything."

What administrative difficulties would have arisen from excluding essential goods from this tax? I do not believe any would have existed. I do not believe the Minister would have had any shortfall in his estimation of revenue, if he had excluded the essential items of living: tea, bread, butter, sugar, milk and fuel, from this iniquitous turnover tax.

I hear talk about increases in social welfare benefits. I have never, since the day I entered this House, ceased to press on all Governments that this section of the community, above all other sections, the old age pensioner, the widow, the orphan, the unemployed, are the people to whom the State must give as much as possible as quickly as possible. The current rate of payment to any of these people in the circumstances of the present cost of living is unreal. I would not have cavilled if the Minister had brought in this type of purchase tax that gave him considerably more revenue and imposed it immediately, if it were to mean greater benefits for the social welfare classes.

I feel that the Minister, instead of postponing his taxation to next November, could have been infinitely more honest with the people of Ireland. He could have carried out the principle embodied in the tax suggested by the Income Tax Commission. He could have excluded essential goods from the range of impost. He could even have an increased rate of tax, commencing immediately, on the other wide range of goods that may be described as luxury or semi-luxury in type.

The 2/6d.—delayed until the beginning of the year—and the increase in children's allowances will in no way offset the simple impact in the home on the cost of the essentials—tea, bread, butter, sugar and milk. It is certainly a ridiculous optimism to expect the worker who has to meet these charges to sit down and not to seek some way of compensating himself for that loss.

I approach this Budget completely impersonally and dispassionately on its merits. I say quite openly to the Minister that I am not the type of person who gets scared by increasing national debt or by glib talk of balance of payments. I feel that whatever our national debt may rise to, there have been substantial developments under all Governments in this State that have improved our national assets to the extent that while we may keep our eye on the rising figure of national debt we cannot rush into any sense of panic over it.

It is a fact that a dead hand, woolly thinking and lack of cohesion and progress underline this Budget. That appals me. There is no doubt but that in the modern type of democracy there is a growing tendency for more and more State direction and more and more State help and more and more State investment in the development of our economy. However, one wants to see that type of effort directed towards an ever-increasing build-up of progress.

I feel quite sincerely that this is a most retrograde Budget. I never have subscribed and I never shall subscribe to the belief that Fianna Fáil did not do in the course of their administration a lot of worthwhile things in this country no more than I shall fail to praise the Cumann na nGaedheal Government for their initiative in sugar factories and electricity. Can we fail to give credit for very large projects that have had a favourable employment and economic impact on our general economy which were initiated and ultimately brought to fruition under Fianna Fáil Government? However, it is in the light of exhortation to improvement, the light of exhortation to everybody to try to get that little bit of extra know how, to try to make that little bit of extra effort, that one has to judge the present Budget.

What encouragement is in this Budget for the person who may be prepared to give fully and generously of the effort asked? In what way will this arouse enthusiasm for expansion in employment, for the widening of marketing, or for the deepening of research—and that is taking the philosophy behind the Budget without, as I shall have to cover, its direct deterrent effects on many aspects of our national life?

No amount of talk, no amount of economic claptrap, no amount of statistical codology will alter the fact that it is now established that the cream of our young people have left this country in their hundreds of thousands in the past 10 years. Possibly I am naive in my economic thinking when I consider that the loss of young Irish boys and girls in their late teens and early 20's is an irreplaceable facet in economic development, if we have to have it.

It does seem amazing that these young people leaving this country can readily find themselves in the finest of industrial employment and in a very short period of time find themselves among the very highly paid, efficient, skilled operatives of industry in Britain. It does seem amazing that, with all the vast amounts of money that have been spent, with all the vast conglomeration of organisations that were meant to be stimulating to the development of industry, we have not been able to keep these people at home or to find the type of employment at home in industry that would encourage them to stay.

Sometimes I laugh heartily when I hear boasts about efforts to get markets for Irish goods in some far-flung part of the world. I realise, and everybody is beginning to realise, that there never has been proper market research in the immediate vicinity of our shores in relation to agricultural produce. There never has been a proper expansion in that industry to take up the lacuna in British agricultural imports. I often wondered why, with all this alleged progressive thinking, money has not been spent and research carried out in relation to many of the by-products of agriculture causing difficulty in our economy.

We have farmers pressing for an increase in the price of milk. We have the problem of a surplus of butter and, apparently, an inability to dispose of it. Anybody who analyses the costings cannot gainsay the fact that the farmer is entitled to a better price for his milk at the creamery. I am convinced that if any real effort had been made over the past 10 or 15 years—I am not putting the blame entirely on the present Government—a ready outlet could have been found for either fresh milk, powdered milk or cream to offset the subsidy we have to pay to get Britain to eat our butter.

It appals me that we do not see in this economic instrument any realistic approach to ensuring increased production in agriculture in an expanding market, where the farmer is assured of a reasonable profit return for his labour on the land. I can assure the Minister—and I do not think anybody will disagree with me—that if the Irish farmer has a reasonable profit incentive, a reasonable scope for markets and the assurance that his produce, properly processed, would be readily saleable, that is the only stimulus he would want to give you, as he has always done in the past, the increased production to bridge the gap.

This is an unpleasant Budget. It is iniquitous because of the method it uses to collect its revenue and because it creates more and more voluntary unpaid tax collectors. It is iniquitous in so far as anybody buying the necessities of life cannot escape its impact. Furthermore, the iniquity goes to the extent that the impact will be felt by the various institutions ministering to the sick and less fortunate brethren in the community because of the increased cost that will have to be borne by these institutions. I want to urge on the Minister to take another look at the picture and use his right of exemption to ameliorate the impact on those institutions.

The impact of rates is already alarming. This turnover tax in relation to all these institutions is nothing less than a further direct impact on the rates. The money to pay the increased cost of food, fuel and other essentials will have to be found somewhere. The only place the local authorities can find it is in the pockets of the ratepayers. Outside the cut and thrust of politics, I feel the Minister should have another look at the impact of this turnover tax on these institutions. I feel his natural inclination would be to preserve that section of the community from this impact.

I was amused on the evening after the Budget by the incredible stupidity of the Irish journalists reflected in the flamboyant inaccuracies and stupid streamer headlines of the national press. They announced in glaring headlines that A, B and C had escaped. It was incredible that people who hitherto had shown such a critical analysis of all the Government's financial efforts should be misled by the easy way in which the Minister makes his Financial Statement into missing the import of this turnover tax. If the caption had been "Nobody Escapes", it would have been more realistic because that is the reaction of the people to the Budget. The farflung tentacles of the octopus of Finance have stretched into every nook and cranny to find heretofore undiscovered gold. I wonder has the Minister, or have his advisers, considered the immediate reaction that took place in relation to large deposits all over the country? Is the Minister aware of the withdrawals of deposits that have been set off by this Budget?

Wishful thinking.

It is not wishful thinking. In one small bank in one isolated town, £75,000 was withdrawn.

By one of your sympathisers.

No, it was not by a sympathiser. The Minister will not get away with that argument because I will have questions down for him in the course of the next month and he will have to tell me the actual figures for withdrawals from the joint stock banks.

If it is true, will the Deputy do much good by asking that question?

I will try to tell the Minister that there is atrophy and not stimulation in this Budget.

What does the Deputy hope to do by putting down the question?

I want to give the Minister every opportunity of trying to explain to the Irish people that their deposits are of immense value, not only to them but to the economy——

And create panic.

——and that they should be kept here. The Minister knows, and I know, that much of the financing of business relies on the extent of deposits here with Irish banks.

Why do you want to disturb them?

I do not want to disturb them——

The Deputy wants to make mischief.

I can assure the Minister that nobody is more anxious than I am to see the Irish peoples' money being kept in Irish banks. I have appealed to many Ministers for Finance to create a kind of moratorium in respect of all moneys in canisters or stockings hidden away in houses so that they could be put on deposit without fear of paying taxes. It has always been my ambition to see Irish money in Irish banks and being used for the country's development but when I see the Minister, by a deliberate act and by fossilised thinking, getting these people upset, I feel it is my duty to tell him that this Budget can have that effect and it is up to him to assure the Irish people that their money will be exempt.

They need not pay any taxes?

It is not a question of paying tax. This turnover tax has created suspicions and difficulties to which the Minister had not yet awakened. The Minister must realise, as any thinking person realises, that it is the extent of the deposits which have made available much of the credit and much of the money which has helped in the progress of the State and if a reassurance is not given and if a brake is not put on withdrawals, it may be difficult to recapture the confidence and trust of the people. That is why I am talking about the type of financial chicanery which is in this Budget. We are preserving the complete tax code and introducing a new and, as the Minister described it, a virtually inexpensive type of tax collection. We are not trying to cut down or replace but we are putting another prong in the fork. The Irish people are not the fools some people think they are. They feel that this is only the first blow and they will get the next blow next year because the Minister very fairly said that he was not giving out any palliatives in the Budget.

The Minister should take another look at this all-embracing tax and see if he cannot exclude from it some of the vital elements in the cost of living. If he does so, he will make the Budget more palatable to a section of the community which deserves our best consideration. I am a firm believer in the fact that the real way to right our economy is through agriculture. Let Government speakers try to whitewash it as they like, the fact is that the expansion and developments in agriculture are not what they should be.

One of my hobbyhorses has always been that we are going all over the world looking for markets, or alternative markets, and we have never got down in a practical way to market research and development in respect of part of a huge market which has to be filled by agricultural products that have to come thousands of miles to England. I should have liked to have seen this Budget provide funds for personnel to conduct research into the quality and nature of the agricultural products required and the zones of concentration for the sale of such products because I am convinced, and I know the Minister is convinced, that with the growth of advisory services and soil testing and the correlated effort at proper fertilisation, improved seeds and better strains of cattle and pigs, the prime product can be produced in greater quantities, but what we want to find is an expanding market at remunerative prices. If we sit down and rationally analyse the fact that we have so many of our own people as well as first and second generation Irish people in England, it will readily appear as the place where investigation and research is most necessary.

It is said that between people who have emigrated in this generation and in the past generation, there are 12 million people who can claim to be substantially or wholly Irish. If the Minister is in earnest about his hopes for progress and development we must sometime find a Government that will face up to the reality of the nearness of the market and its availability and get down to the task of establishing it on a permanent and expanding basis so that the Irish farmer, when he increases production, will be assured that his goods will be absorbed and that not only will our economy generally benefit but his own personal industry will have the normal profit reward for effort.

One must ask, apart from the alleged benefit in the social welfare group, what benefit there is for anybody in this Budget. The answer is none. There is no help for the worker who stands under the shadow of the Minister's paws—whether pay pause or otherwise. There is a gross indirect imposition by way of labour and tax on the retail community. There is a gross imposition by way of collecting on all hoteliers and all the people who will give service not only to our own people but to those who come to partake of our hospitality. For the struggling family business, there is not only the tax and the collection imposition but a further blow in the variation of the corporation profits tax. This all comes at a time when initiative and expansion should be shown by the Government because we are told there is a tremendous amount to be done to gear us for a free trade situation.

Can even the most ardent Government supporter, even the most blindfolded Deputy behind the Government, show me where in this Budget there is any stimulation for that kind of effort? Many conscientious people in industry here who are trying to improve their plants, their methods of production and increase the training and skill of employees are shocked and appalled by the peculiar twisted thinking of people who, on one hand, ask for increased effort while plunging the other deeper into the till to take more by a new method.

I heard the Tánaiste making the case that we must be infinitely better off because more people are attending technical and secondary schools and universities. To me, that certainly indicates that at last we may be improving in our appraisal of the need for this type of training but I can assure the Minister that there are still vast fields open and vast numbers of improvements necessary to acquire the requisite technical training and skill for industry, agriculture or more scientific pursuits. An extraordinary thing is that no matter what the Minister may say about these improvements, a vast effort by the Government is still necessary to ensure that all those who live on the land are readily indoctrinated and trained in the husbandry and science of the proper development of that land and the womenfolk properly trained in relation to raising fowl and other industries subsidiary to the main farm working.

If iniquitous taxation has to come, as it has come in this Budget, there would be at least some solace and relief if we felt that the technical training, experimentation and demonstration in matters of good husbandry were getting closer to the people who work the land. As I said in my speech on the Vote on Account, no amount of sound and fury can alter the fact that production depends on the work of the farmer and his son and his man on the land. Whether it be in the growing of cereals or the production of sheep, cattle or pigs for the market, it is there that the knowledge and improved techniques must be made available so that the optimum return can be secured.

I do not like statements to the effect that there is something wrong with the Irish farmer. I do not believe there is anything wrong with him that certainty of market and a reasonable return for his effort cannot cure. Over the years, we have seen the ups and downs of the mixed economy of the Irish farmer. For instance, there has been tremendous stimulation of bacon production, followed by a fall in price as a result of over-production. On the other hand, there have been occasions when the person who was lucky enough to hold his pigs while others were getting out of pig production reaped a rich harvest in a period of scarcity. That is a fundamental problem in agriculture. Until such time as supply and demand can be stabilised or a reasonable floor put under the price of farm produce, it will not be possible to get farmers to increase production at the rate that is possible and, in my opinion, the rate at which farmers should produce in order to ensure the health of our economy.

The last speaker from the Fianna Fáil benches spoke about prophets of doom and gloom. I do not believe in either type. We are a hardy and resilient people. We would not have preserved our desire for freedom and ultimately achieved it, were it not for the fact that there is a tenacity and strength in the Irish people that is praiseworthy.

I urge the Minister to ensure that there will be an objective appraisal of the position in order to see where our failures lay in the past 40 years and I want to see an energetic, stimulating effort made to resolve them.

I am prepared to go so far as to say that up to the very recent past matters distracting to clear economic thinking have impinged on the Irish political scene. Those who differ have become sufficiently adult and mellow to take an objective view of the situation. The younger people entering this House should be facing the problems of the economic future of the country. Our economic future is completely dependent on the stimulation of agriculture to a pitch of production that will have the capacity to carry virtually 90 per cent of the whole economy.

There have been failures in relation to agriculture. We should by now have reached the stage where we can face objectively and dispassionately the problem of expanding production so as to eliminate the spiral of bludgeoning taxation. Taxation, per se is a deterrent to effort. The human nature in us makes us resentful of the fact that if we make greater effort and earn more, we have to pay more. I shall not say that the Minister is not entitled to the money—he has to get the money. I say that after all the years of pious prayers and Government hopes that there would be expansion and progress in certain directions, there has not been the progress or expansion there should have been. Therefore, it becomes absolutely incumbent upon the Government, if they are going to seize this ever-increasing incidence of taxation, to find in our own development, and in our own expansion, the buoyancy to keep the State going, and at the same time, reverse the trend. In my opinion, what Irish people want to stimulate them is some kind of hope that the political euphemisms about the limit of taxation having been reached will have some meaning, and that they will see themselves getting more value for what they have to spend. This Budget will give them a decreased value and a decreased return in goods for what they will spend.

Our economy sadly needs an injection that will show that effort and strength of purpose are to be recognised, and that a trend will start, even if only gradually, in the opposite direction, because the difficulty that has been created in recent times is that prices are chasing wages and wages are chasing prices. The real value of the goods is never equated. When a man gets an increase in wages of 10/- a week, he never gets an increase of 10/- in goods value. As soon as he gets the 10/-, up goes the price of a number of essentials, and the worth of the money to him is dissipated with amazing rapidity.

I do not profess to be able to give the Minister some magic formula that will suddenly arrest that type of disequilibrium between the two, but some kind of control on essential articles is required to keep them in a reasonable balance. That is why I urge—not in a purely political Party way but in a very earnest way—a review of the incidence of this taxation where it relates to the vital essentials, even if limited to vital household essentials and fuel.

There was much speculation before this Budget was introduced as to whether cigarettes, petrol, tobacco and beer would go up in price. That speculation is dead now because every single one of them has gone up in price. It may be postponed until November but every single item has gone up in price. This tax will not be 1d. on this or 1d. on that. It will be an arbitrary figure which will be ultimately arranged to recoup the retailer for his 6d. in the £, and for whatever else is incidental to its collection.

When it comes to the pint, which is so often referred to as the working-man's pint—and he is entitled to it— the incidence will not be 6d. in the £, but at least 1d. on the pint. There is no other way of dealing with it. We will find that the tax on cigarettes will leave the increase against the purchaser and not in his favour. No matter what way you look at it, 6d. in the £ on Grade 1 petrol is 1½d. on the gallon. There is a difference in the price of Grade 1 and Grade 3 petrol, but I assure the Minister that the difference in the 6d. is not divisible and, whether the Minister appreciates it or not, there will be 1½d. on the gallon of petrol from next November.

There is no doubt in my mind that the incidence of a higher rate of taxation in the field the Minister has gone into, excluding the range of goods suggested in the report of the Income Tax Commission, would have been far more acceptable, even to the people who would feel the big impact of that increased taxation, than this far reaching, overall, esoteric concept of plunder. A tax on the essentials of life is always a shabby tax, and in this instance it is all the more shabby because the Minister has not the courage to allow the people to feel its impact until the hustling and bustling of the by-election are over. If this iniquitous tax had to come, I would be happier if it had come in immediately, and if greater reliefs had been given to the people who cannot carry the burden.

I would have far less to say about the iniquity of this Budget if the Minister had the courage to look for his £10½ million this year, and give proper and adequate increases to old age pensioners, widows and orphans, and persons drawing children's allowances. That would be less unfair than this postponement, this dangling of the carrot, which has become a feature of Fianna Fáil philosophy. Not only is this Budget iniquitous but it is pernicious as well. It is all-enveloping in its effect. It creates a new departure in what I describe as distorted financial thinking.

If taxation is to be justified at all, it can be justified only on the basis that it is distributed in accordance with the capacity of people to carry the load. How can anybody sustain the proposition that there is equality in capacity to carry the load where this turnover tax is concerned? Looking at the incidence of taxation, it is abundantly clear to all right thinking people that it is the small purchaser, the person who has to scrimp and scrape to get together the price of the half-pound of butter towards the end of the week, the price of the pound of sausages, or even the price of the pot of jam, who will suffer the biggest burden. The minimum surcharge on these small items will be ½d. The farthing is no longer a common coin in circulation. So far as essentials are concerned, therefore, the impact will fall directly and relentlessly on those least able to bear the burden.

Various forms of purchase tax are operated in many countries. I have not been able to find any parallel anywhere for this particular type of all-embracing iniquitous taxation. When the Minister was replying on an earlier occasion, I interjected that this was the sixpenny Budget. I was not being fair —it is a great deal shabbier than that. I have no doubt, in the light of the haphazard explanation and the haphazard suggestions made by the Minister as to collection, that the Minister is relying on some artificial means—he suggests competition—to ensure the incidence of this tax will not be more than sixpence. He said: "Ah, sure, they won't be fool enough to charge it on the small things." I will have a little wager with the Minister that, when assessment of this tax is ultimately reached, he will find that the small purchases will have carried an inordinate and disproportionate share of the tax.

I do not know if the Minister intends to review the incidence of this tax between now and the introduction of the Finance Bill, but I am interested in one particular aspect. Tremendous strides have been made in Irish racing and the sale of Irish bloodstock because of the levy imposed, administered and distributed through the Racing Board. Does the Minister not consider that this tax will be a very heavy impost on a very worthwhile industry? Would the Minister not think it more desirable to allow such moneys to go back into racing to improve breeding and the other amenities and ultimately lead to an even bigger export of Irish bloodstock? That has become a very real and valuable part of our economy.

Again, in relation to Bord na gCon, I suggest that any taxation as a result of this impost should go back again into the development of the greyhound industry. Development has been a very marked feature of the work of Bord na gCon. Despite my earlier scepticism, it does appear now that this body has been successful in stimulating the export of Irish greyhounds.

I appeal to the Minister to take another look at the picture and see if he does not find substance in the suggestions I make. During the Hospitals Sweep Derby last year, I was proud of the tremendous contribution made to Irish racing as a result of the levy, the high standard of comfort and the excellent amenities provided and, in particular, the high standard and quality of our bloodstock throughout the length and breadth of our State. That achievement is shown in the ever-increasing sales of our yearlings and two-year olds all over the world. The Minister might, perhaps unwittingly, cause a set-back to progress as a result of this impost, a set-back which would not be justified, to put it mildly.

Whether the Minister believes it or not, this Budget has given rise to very substantial apprehension and serious and growing displeasure. What appeared to be and, indeed, was initially swallowed as a sweet pill has turned very bitter on analysis. Reiterate I must that, broken down to its components, this pill is an increase in the price of bread, butter, tea, sugar, milk, beer, tobacco, cigarettes, petrol and every other article within the retail list of the country's economy.

We used one time say when Fianna Fáil were going through their period of black Budgets and supplementary Budgets that they were hitting only bread, butter, tea and sugar; they were hitting only articles that were then subsidised. Now they are evolving a new technique, making the incidence seem less but widening the range. That is exactly what this Budget has done. It has excluded nobody from the bludgeon. It has created anomalies and duplication that will redound to the improvement of the revenue but act to the detriment of the taxpayer.

It has also created another wide range of unpaid tax collectors. Has the Minister and his advisers any conception of the dilemma of the unfortunate employer, already subscribing by way of the cost of a man, his time and his books, to the collection of PAYE, when he will have to extract this 2½ per cent, euphemistically called turnover tax? Have the Government any plan to have the tax operated by a stamp taxation method, where the issue of sub-particles of the farthing would be possible? Will the incidence of this tax be a haphazard affair as seems to be the case from what the Minister said when he was pilloried with questions? Has any method of collection been planned?

Again, in the light of the exhortations of the Taoiseach about re-equipment, about the improvement of technique, is he satisfied that this increase of corporation profits tax is of any financial benefit to compensate for the stultifying effect it will have? The 2½ per cent turnover tax read beautifully. It sounded immensely reasonable when one said it was only 6d. in the £ but when it is 6d. in every £ for every retail commodity bought as well as for every service paid for, is the true estimate of the worth of this 6d. in the £ not very far in excess of the £10½ million which the Minister suggested it was worth in a full year?

I have not at my hand the figures that may be at the Minister's hand but I would hazard a guess that £13 million a year would be a nearer estimation than £10½ million. I say the Minister has his tongue in his cheek in his estimate of what he will get for the four months because undoubtedly he will get the tax at the time of greatest spending in the year. I suppose if the Irish people can be forced to accept this blister, then it will not be Old Mother Hubbard finding her cupboard bare but it will be a suddenly benevolent Minister ploughing the ground for the election harvest.

I believe and always have believed that there is considerable merit in direct taxation by way of substantial imposts on luxury and semi-luxury goods. I believe that not only is it a fair method of taxation but that it is a very fair instrument to control inflationary tendencies and to arrest overbuying. I felt the time was overdue, long before the Income Tax Commission report came out, for the consideration of that type of taxation where you could control the incidence of the taxation burden yourself by control of non-essential purchases. However, I never conceived that a Government would be as shabby and as mean as to embrace in such a tax conception the very essentials of life of the very poorest of our community.

I had always conceived, in economic rectitude, that the incidence of this type of taxation would be used to eliminate gradually some of the worst in Victorian taxation methods we already have. In relation to the income tax group, I felt in particular that the simplification of that code and the removal of a lot of families with the consequent loss of revenue that might accrue therefrom could fairly have been taken up in this purchase tax on non-essential luxury or semi-luxury goods.

Undoubtedly, the biggest impetus to spending in that range would come from the same people who were being relieved in the income tax group but I never conceived the idea of the two running side by side. My imagination fails me as to what will be conceived when saturation point is reached in the incidence of turnover tax. I reiterate again——

You certainly do.

——in relation to the reference by the present Minister himself to taxation having reached the limit of saturation that apparently what had not reached the limit of saturation was his ingenuity to conceive something new, bright and airy. I shall continue to reiterate the real impact of the Budget, whether or not the Minister likes it.

I am tired of listening to the Deputy for two hours, to tell him the truth.

I have listened to the Minister, too, and I was tired after the first half hour.

At least, I said something.

The Minister is well paid to sit there.

Deputy Collins should get back to the Budget.

I shall report progress. Do not worry.

That is all right. I do not mind about that.

No matter with what veils of mystery or with what songs of glory you may try to enshroud this Budget of yours, it means increased prices for bread——

——butter——

Butter.

——tea——

——sugar——

Tell me the rest.

Acting Chairman

The Deputy said that before. He should not repeat it.

He said it a hundred times before.

It means an increased price for boots, shoes, the little plastic macs parents have to buy for their children. It means an increased price for the essential clothing of all the children. It means an increased price for every class of society, in every range of society. It means an increased cost for the food of the various institutions throughout the country—hospitals, homes for the old and infirm, and so on. It means an increase in the price of the ordinary accessories of the house—soap, boot polish, every conceivable item. The sooner the Irish people realise that it means an increase in the price of every single conceivable item, the better.

This Budget also shows a departure in that the Minister is going after the co-operative creamery for the first time. A new tax falls again on the section of the community whose co-operative effort and unified attempt to improve their area has heretofore escaped the voracious and hungry hand of the Minister. No justification has been made for this change. No basis has been laid for the change. Is it some queer caprice or is it the constant Fianna Fáil lack of appreciation of the farmer that is behind this tax?

Remember, where these co-operatives are most effective are in areas not blessed with the best of land or the biggest of farmers. They are most effective in areas where their combination together have enabled them to give improvements in the area by way of mutual help in machinery and effort. The work of these creameries has been a vital part in the financing and helping of many farmer subscribers into better, more up-to-date and more improved production methods.

Many of these co-operatives have, of their own initiative, given to their community benefits by way of technical advice, and instructor skill that would not otherwise have been available. Their contribution to development in these areas was substantial. The immunity they got was recognised as something that was just, in the circumstances of their effort. I should like the Minister, when he is replying, to tell me why this sudden change has arisen and why these people have to bear the incidence of tax now.

They will not have to bear it.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 7th May, 1963.
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