Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 Apr 1967

Vol. 227 No. 13

Committee on Finance. - Financial Resolution No. 4: General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
—(Minister for Finance.)

Before Question Time, Deputy Dillon mentioned that an abundance of houses was available for workers when the inter-Party Government left office. I want to quote now from volume 160, column 2060 of the Dáil Debates for 6th September, 1956, the week before the bottom fell out of the last inter-Party Government's world. Deputy Larkin said:

I do not think there is anything to be pleased about when an essential building programme is being held up. People living in clearance areas, families suffering from TB and families living in overcrowded conditions will have to wait for this essential building programme.

This gives a clear indication that Deputy Dillon does not know what he is talking about, that he has been misled by some of his Party and that he was out of touch with the situation in 1956. He was out of touch, as were all the other members of the inter-Party Government at that time. He, and other Members, have repeatedly come into the House during debates on the housing situation and claimed that there was an abundance of houses available when they left office. However, in the week before they left office, on the last occasion when they had an opportunity to discuss anything, Deputy Larkin told us that people were living in overcrowded conditions and in slum areas and people who had TB were not housed as a result of the hold-up in housing at that time, as I previously indicated quoting from this very valuable document, Volume 160 of the Dáil Debates. I imagine it should be sold out within the next week, if not already sold out. It is a best seller.

I want to quote from it again. At column 2060, Deputy Larkin said:

The picture facing us in Dublin this year is not too pleasant. The number of houses completed in the period from 1st April, to 31st October last year was 644: this year the number is 449. The number of men employed on housing, housing development work and allied occupations in Dublin city last year was 2,199: this year the number is 1,854. Bear in mind also the fact that last year's figure represented a 50 per cent reduction on the employment in 1951.

That shows the dismal failure at that time of the inter-Party Government whose members now try to claim credit for leaving behind them 1,500 houses. No doubt they had 1,500 casual vacancies which occurred from time to time during their period in office when building workers were forced to emigrate. We had 1,500 broken homes which were the responsibility of the gentlemen we read so much about in this particular volume, the gentlemen in the inter-Party Government.

Facts are facts, but at least Deputy Larkin was not muzzled.

I am allowed to talk now. These people do not really know what happened during those difficult years. I can well understand their confusion and the difficulties from which they ran away, deserted the people, leaving 97,000 on the labour exchanges. Yet these people have the audacity to come in here and tell us time and again that there was plenty of houses.

Nobody ever suggested that.

Yes, they did. I have been here for the past couple of days and I have heard the speeches. We have heard of the progress now in the housing of Dublin workers and what is planned for the future. From discussions we had recently and as a result of planning that is taking place, Dublin workers can look forward to another five years of planned development during which they will not have to take to the boat. They can live in their own homes and there will not be 1,500 broken homes.

Will you build more than 36 houses in Donegal? That is what you built last year.

I have repeatedly asked the Deputy to restrain himself. If he cannot do that, he should leave the House.

It is very difficult.

The Deputy should leave the House then because the Chair will not continue to repeat itself. I am giving the Deputy that indication now.

If the Deputy doubts what I said, he can go to the Library and get volume 160 of the Dáil Debates and he can examine the situation that led up to that housing debate over the three years previously. He will see that the position was much worse than most people over there indicated. But never again will the people be misled. They are conscious that their fathers, their sons or even their entire families went across the sea and never came back. We can thank the recruiting sergeants of McAlpine's Fusiliers.

You have a shocking neck, Joe.

You know it is right.

You would imagine you had only got into government in the past three or four years.

(Interruptions.)

I think that has dealt with the misrepresentations that have been made here in the course of references to the housing problem. I should like Deputy Corish to hear what I am about to say in regard to his own Party in a few moments. I have listened here to the debate and read in the reports various references made to our Party and its organisation known as Taca. We read in this morning's paper where a Member of the Labour Party made reference to this matter, Deputy tica-taca Coughlan. As a matter of fact, it is no longer called the Labour Party but the expulsion party, the Party in labour, throwing them out. I have read or heard the debate and the speeches of Deputy O'Leary, Deputy Dunne and other members of the Labour Party——

And they will not listen to the Deputy now.

In the meantime, they should read volume 160. Great emphasis has been laid on this particular organisation, Taca. One Deputy was kicked out of the Dáil here, Deputy Cluskey, in connection with references to it and fund-raising activities. As regards the Labour Party's fund-raising activities, a diabolical situation exists in which the lowly-paid Irish workers are being blackmailed into paying a political levy to the Labour Party——

I do not know what all this has to do with the Budget.

Quite recently a man who wanted to opt out of paying the political levy was told that if he did, they would have nothing to do with him when it came to redundancy pay——

This has nothing to do with the Financial Resolutions before the House.

But there is money provided in the Estimate for the Department of Labour for demarcation payments and this unfortunate man was told that when demarcation did come, if he did not pay the levy, they would forget about him.

I am not allowing that. It has nothing whatever to do with this debate.

I want to point out——

The Deputy will not argue with the Chair. This has nothing to do with the matter before the House.

Deputy Dillon dealt with fund-raising at quite some length.

That would not necessarily make it relevant.

He was allowed to go on for some considerable length of time.

A sum of £15,000 is provided in the Estimate for the Department of Labour this year for redundancy payments so that no Irish worker will be deprived of his rights because he does not subscribe to any political Parties levy. We will pay that, irrespective of his Party affiliation.

Will the Deputy tell me how that ties up with the Financial Resolutions?

An unfortunate worker in this city was told that if he did not make a certain contribution, he would be deprived of redundancy pay.

I do not see how that ties up with the Resolution.

I want to say that nobody will be deprived of redundancy payments because of his failure to pay the levy.

It has no connection with what is before the House and I ask the Deputy to leave it.

There has been considerable mention of fund-raising activities.

There has been.

And there was widespread publicity. One would think there was only one Party in this House, to judge by the morning papers of today and other days or weeks previously, that collected subscriptions when in actual fact there is blackmail and intimidation in making unfortunate people subscribe to funds in support of other political Parties. This is happening. It is diabolical. I can assure the workers that whatever services are provided by the Department of Labour or by any other Department will be available to them, irrespective of what Party they are affiliated to.

I must ask the Deputy to leave that matter. It has no connection with the Budget Resolution.

I have made a point that everybody understands. I will deal with it on some other occasion in more detail. Deputy Dunne made a number of personal attacks on me. I do not mind them. He said I was being groomed as Minister for Agriculture and that I intended to cross a rabbit with a goat—no, a pig with a rabbit. I assure him there is one thing I will not cross and that is a turkey with a red herring. I wish he were here now because there are many things I should like to say to him.

There are more red herrings in the country than turkeys.

That is the old bronze type of turkey. The Deputy would not know much about that bird. I always had a liking for the old turkey. The Deputy is trying to confuse me. The Fine Gael Party told the people last year that no one over 50 was to vote for them in the coming local elections.

That is completely untrue.

Deputy Dillon is not fit to stand in a local election because he is over 50. A lot of publicity was given to that matter and at the time there is mention of the Presidential election. Then a man contested the Presidential election who is now more than 50. In the eyes of the same people, he was only a teenager a few months ago.

I do not know what this has to do with the Budget.

It probably has not. Mention is made from time to time about these young groups in Fine Gael and it is suggested that the older people should be replaced by them at elections. I was going to deal with agriculture in detail——

Do not, for goodness sake.

Deputy Dillon has expressed many crazy ideas here and he made many peculiar statements in his contribution this year. I read something recently about his responsibility in the 1950s for the famous hen bird. He is supposed to have sentenced the poor old birds to death. Departmental funds were used to publicise the death sentence on the old birds. The advertisements were in Irish. Did he produce a bilingual bird, I wonder?

This is very relevant.

Last week Fine Gael went into the lobbies to vote rejection of the Resolutions to provide the necessary money to help the old age pensioners, the widows, the orphans, the unemployed, the blind and the disabled. They voted against free transport for the aged. Did their action mean they would like to cut the increase to those old people to a shilling or does it mean they would not give them any consideration at all? Do they agree that the old people should be given free transport? These people got an electric shock from the Minister when he announced free electricity for the aged.

This time next year, when the Minister has had time to settle in, I know he will give further consideration to the claims of the most deserving sections of the community. He is a man of initiative and of great understanding and sympathy. I am glad to be a member of a Party who have given so much thought to the problems of the aged and the disabled, not only in lip service but in actual contribution.

In Waterford recently I saw wonderful progress in the development of the industrial area. It will give much needed employment to industrial workers. This is in addition to the employment available at Shannon where so much money has been spent in recent years on adaptation. In the Capital Budget, we find there are now 15 manufacturing firms at Shannon and that there are 3,827 persons employed. The total number of dwellings completed comprise 318 houses and a considerable number of flats and a scheme of 135 houses will be completed this year. That shows the development situation in relation to industry in that part of the country, though we hear so much being said about the neglect of the West. In Galway, too, the industrial area is being developed which will provide further employment for our workers and further accommodation for them.

We have also taken revolutionary and progressive steps in relation to education. A considerable amount of money is being provided for education, creating opportunities now that never before existed for children. New horizons are opening up for our children, new opportunities which were never before dreamt of. I am sure the people will gladly meet any demands made on them in this respect. I wonder will Fine Gael enter the lobbies to vote against it, as they did against our provisions for the old age pensioners, the widows and the orphans? We will not be impeded. If you want to make a name for yourselves, do not forget to come with us into the division lobbies, and then you can take credit for supporting in some way the necessary measures to provide taxation. The public will not think any the worse of you.

I thought the Deputy said he was finished.

That was that part. In relation to the Department of Labour, the Government have expressed in concrete terms their desire to see Irish workers properly cared for and properly catered for. This is expressed in the development of the Department of Labour and by the exercises that will be undertaken by that Department. As we read through the Estimates, we find that new ground is again broken. This office will provide the services already outlined by the very able Minister for Labour in relation to redundancy, training schemes, resettlement allowances, research and career information. All these are very important to young people. With career guidance on leaving school, they will be equipped and advised on how best they can fit into the new world of tomorrow. They will not be left to make their own decisions and to be led into dead-end jobs which perhaps offer a higher financial award for a given period than some better-class jobs.

The Irish workers very much appreciate the effort of the Government in bringing about this situation in order to ensure that the problems of the future will be tackled in a realistic manner. There are already various aids for Irish workers in relation to conditions of employment, holidays with pay, industrial injuries and wet time. When a worker is retired, he has the benefit of the contributory old age pension. There is also an increase in that pension. We hope that in the future this will develop twofold. There are still some ruthless employers who fail to give their employees proper conditions by way of retirement gratuities, allowances, or pensions. We trust that the various organisations which cater for workers will endeavour to see that after their period of service, the workers are properly rewarded. The Government will supplement this by whatever increase can be given by way of social welfare or social insurance.

The development of the Department of Labour is a very important aspect from the point of view of the workers. I hope that in the years to come the Minister will give whatever assistance he can and that he will not impede this development in any way—I know he will not—so that the worker can feel secure from the day he enters employment. Our aim is to make the workers feel secure so that if a man becomes redundant, he can be assured that irrespective of whatever political party or union he is a member of, he will get redundancy payments, and need no longer be guided by people who claim that they look after their own members having regard to the subscription requirement I mentioned previously. It is important that a man should be protected so that if a slump comes in his industry, he will have a period of retraining, and get a financial return during that period of retraining and then be resettled. It is important for a man to know that if he becomes redundant in a particular concern, a service will be available to retrain him for the future. This has brought great satisfaction to the great bulk of the Irish workers who feel that we have here a Government who are prepared to cater for the worker in realistic terms and to ensure that his future is safeguarded. He no longer has to worry about the boat. We have now reached a situation where if a man becomes redundant and if he has to move from his place of employment to a new area, he will be assisted financially by the State.

The fact that the State is making the necessary arrangements on the question of career guidance is important. I am also glad to know that disabled persons will also be retrained. There is an increase from £80,000 to £250,000 in this section. Disabled persons will be trained and placed by the placement service. All these things show that the Government are understanding and have given detailed consideration to the problems of the future. The Government are aware of the pitfalls. Unfortunately on too many occasions men were kicked out of employment by Government direction under an inter-Party Government and they received no redundancy payments or any payments whatever, and had to take the boat to distant countries.

I should like to congratulate the Minister, as I did at the outset, on his wonderful contribution. He can be assured that the public at large are in sympathy with him and are prepared to make the contributions he asks for by way of increased taxation. It would seem that the only people who have any doubts in their minds about these contributions are the people in the other two Parties in the Dáil. The Labour Party have criticised the Budget, although they voted for it. They cannot have it both ways.

The Deputy is talking like a trained circus pony. He is talking as if the Government were perfect. They would not claim that for themselves.

I listened to them this morning speaking about the various increases——

Has the Deputy any criticism of the Government at all?

No. We are a democratic Party and we are allowed to speak.

Let me come to the next Party meeting so that I can hear the Deputy.

If I spoke here, I would not be expelled. The Labour Party is the Party of expulsion.

It would depend on what the Deputy said.

I would probably be expelled for criticising the Labour Party. The Ceann Comhairle would not allow me to do that earlier. I will have an opportunity at a later stage of developing this. I want to ensure that Irish workers will get a square deal through the services available and that there will not be any intimidation of workers to make them subscribe to Party funds as was the case recently.

That is untrue, and the Deputy knows it. The Deputy is jealous because he cannot get a few pounds out of his own union. There is no intimidation. It is a voluntary subscription and the Deputy knows it.

Quite recently a man approached a Labour Party member who was a shop steward and asked for a form to opt out. He was told, first of all, that the form could not be found. Afterwards he was told that after redundancy came, they would look after their own. I want to ensure that the workers will be protected against such intimidation. That will be done by a Fianna Fáil Government.

I thought you ruled this out of order, Sir?

There is no compulsion in any union regarding a political levy, and the Deputy knows that.

Why do you not allow them to opt out?

They can opt out, if they wish. Let the Minister bring in legislation for this.

I want to refer briefly to the statement by the previous speaker about the political levy by any union. I have always abided by the rules of this House and I intend to abide by them. That precludes me from saying that the Deputy told a deliberate lie. I will, therefore, attribute his statement to ignorance of union rules and procedure. Every trade unionist who reads his book of rules knows exactly what the position is. Possibly the kind of trade unionists in the Fianna Fáil Party do not bother to read their book of rules. Therefore, it is not surprising that statements such as those made by Deputy Dowling are made in this House.

Those statements are made in complete ignorance of the facts of the situation. A voluntary contribution is made by all members. Before I leave that, I want to say that it is not too peculiar to have an attack on the trade union movement or an attack on trade union leaders coming from the Fianna Fáil benches. It is not the first time this has happened and we know it will not be the last time.

Now, to get to the Budget. Over the past week we had Government speakers telling us what a wonderful Budget this is. They maintain that it relieves distress, that it takes away hardship and generally does good. I want to pose a question. If we accept for a moment that this is true, who was responsible for the hardship and the distress which sections of people are suffering today? Was it not the Government who through their lack of policy down the years caused all this distress and hardship to our social welfare recipients and people on low wages generally?

Government speakers now expect the people to thank them for a very slight relief of the distress which the Government, by reason of their policies, have caused those same people. Over the past 35 years Fianna Fáil have been in office for almost 30 years. During most of that period they enjoyed an over-all majority. In spite of all those advantages, in spite of all the speeches we hear today, we still have a very high level of unemployment, a very high level of emigration, a very low level of social welfare benefits, a very low level of industrial expansion and very slow progress in housing and other amenities.

Progress over those years has been very slow. All the progressive countries in Europe have gone ahead, both socially and economically but this country has always lagged behind. We continue to lag behind after almost 30 years of Fianna Fáil Government. Of course, the Government got to power simply and solely on the promise that they would provide more jobs. They have managed to keep in power by the continuation of that false promise at every subsequent election. The fact remains, however, that employment has steadily gone down, particularly in the last few years. The number of people at work has decreased during those years.

Many speakers from this side of the House made reference to the two Budgets of 1966 and the extra taxation imposed on the ordinary people in those two Budgets and the fact that they got practically no reliefs. I want to refer to an attempt to introduce a third Budget last year. This was an attempt by the Minister for Local Government in another way to raise extra revenue. He had the idea that the tenants of corporation and council houses should pay more rent. He window-dressed the demand for more rent with a promise that the money would be used to provide a cheaper house for people who could not afford the high rent. This was all very good in theory, I suppose, but it was nothing more than an attempt to introduce a third Budget in 1966. I am glad the Government realised that the old age pensioners and people in receipt of unemployment benefit and assistance could not afford to pay increased rent, but it was a very deceitful way to try to fool these people into paying higher rents. It was deceitful to go about it in this manner. The only aim the Minister for Local Government had was to provide extra revenue, extra taxation, not by increase in rents if you like, but it was an extra tax on people who live in council and corporation houses. If the Government are really worried about the rents that old age pensioners and other social welfare classes have to pay for houses, they should increase the benefits accordingly. The level of social welfare benefits should be such that tenants of local authority houses, and, indeed, tenants of private houses, if they are sick, unemployed, or if they are old age pensioners, should from the money they receive from the State be in a position to pay the rents and provide themselves with proper shelter.

It is the duty of the Government to make the level of pensions such that it will give these people the necessary money to pay reasonable rents. The Minister for Local Government, or any Minister of State, should not be trying between Budgets to raise extra revenue by putting extra taxation on workingclass people who are already heavily burdened with direct and indirect taxation. No attempt should be made to put this extra taxation on them. It has succeeded, unfortunately, in some counties and there are occupiers of workingclass houses paying up to £1, and in some cases more than that, increase in rent as a result of the policy of the Minister for Local Government with, I assume, the sanction of the Government.

This policy has now been laid aside because of the forthcoming local elections. I want an assurance from the Minister for Finance that if he does not introduce a second Budget this year none of the other Ministers, either the Minister for Local Government by way of demand for increased rents or the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs by way of increased postal charges, will come to this House before the end of the year looking for more money.

The proportion of taxes now being paid by social welfare recipients and the lower paid groups has gone up substantially in the last few years, but the benefits accorded to them have not been in keeping with the increase in the cost of living, which, in turn, has been brought about mainly by increases in indirect taxation. If the Minister in this Budget appears to help the weaker sections and appears to relieve distress, I would ask him why should there be a weaker section. Who made weaker sections in our society? Who created the distress which we have now to try to alleviate?

There are a few of the Budget proposals to which I should like to refer. The medical expenses relief is welcome, but I wonder does it really go far enough. I know it is difficult to do all that is required, but I also know of single men with wages of from £8 to £9 a week who have been refused medical cards and who cannot get free medical services. If these people run up a bill of from £30 to £40 a year will they get any relief for these medical expenses? The single man with from £8 to £9 a week cannot get a medical card. If he runs up a bill of from £30 to £40 a year and he is also paying income tax, will he get relief for these medical expenses?

Provided his expenses are more than £50.

Supposing they are £30 or £40?

The idea is that it is a serious illness.

The anomaly I see is that a man on a higher salary whose medical expenses amount to £50 will get it; a man with a salary four times that of the other man—that is, a man with from £5,000 to £6,000 a year, if his expenses run to £50, will get relief.

Do not forget that it includes medical expenses, chemists' charges, and so on. Nowadays it is not a serious illness that would cost £50 in a year. The illness could involve a man or any member of his family.

I am talking about the man with, say, £400 a year who is not entitled to medical expenses by reason of the fact that he is single and he incurs, say, £40 in medical expenses a year. His boss, who has a salary of £4,000 a year incurs £50 medical expenses and he will get relief but the poor man with one-tenth of his salary will not get it.

It is not really relevant. Illness does not distinguish between bosses and workers. A worker is as likely to contract a serious illness as any member of his family. We have to draw the line and I have adopted the limit put forward by the Commission. They recommended £300 or £400 as being applicable to a serious illness.

To my mind, it creates a definite anomaly, if not an injustice, in the case I put forward of the employee with £400 incurring medical expenses of £40 and his employer with, perhaps, a salary of £4,000 incurring medical expenses of £50.

The worker with a salary of £10 a week is just as likely to have a serious illness as the employer. It is not a serious illness these days that costs £50 a year when you take medicines and drugs into account.

The moral for the lower-paid worker is that if he is going to get ill he should contract a serious illness.

The Deputy will admit it is a step forward.

It is a step forward, but I do not see much in it for the man who is at present just outside the eligibility limit for free medical services. I do not see anything in it for him unless he gets sufficient illness in the family to bring the cost over £50.

May I point out that this is not meant to be a general cover for illness? People are covered in other ways, particularly by the Voluntary Health Insurance in the case of the man who is not entitled to free medical services. This is meant for a disaster, if you wish, when a man or a member of his family incurs a serious illness in a year which would be quite ruinous from his point of view. In that case we say you can claim for it against income tax.

You could have two charges for the same illness.

We have cast the net widely. We have covered nearly all the expenses applicable. I think the inclusion of drugs and chemists' bills is very important.

Can I take it, when the Minister says 12 months, he is referring to the 12 months from early April to the following April?

It is applicable from now on; in other words, anybody having a serious illness this year will be allowed for it.

I would appeal to the Minister, in future Budgets, to take steps to improve the start now made to grant relief in respect of medical expenses.

The relief for dependants is welcome but, here again, it is not good enough. We have a campaign at the present time by the Minister for Health and by local authorities—a good campaign —to encourage old people to remain at home, to remain out of county homes and hospitals. The Minister for Finance could go a little further to help in this campaign by having another look at the relief granted to people who keep dependants.

The extra relief for children is also small because it is of no benefit to the worker on a low wage. It will benefit only the salaried man who has a comfortable wage. Efforts should be directed towards helping the man who is on a low wage. The relief proposed for people in managerial positions and other executives is, I suppose necessary, but there are other fields of activity in which people are engaged and in which they should be encouraged to remain. This should also be looked at, with a view to giving them some extra tax relief. I do not think the Exchequer will lose much by the relief granted to those salaried people, because, possibly, what the Minister loses one way he will get back in another, through indirect taxes on various popular commodities.

Before I pass from these reliefs, I should like an assurance from the Minister that the 5/- increase in old age pensions, disabled persons maintenance allowance, et cetera will not affect home assistance payments already being paid to those people. It has happened in the past that every time these particular classes got an increase of 5/- —which was at local authority level—this 5/- was deducted from the home assistance being granted to them. It has created a serious injustice down through the years. I should like an assurance from the Minister that the home assistance payments being paid to people who require them will be maintained at their present level, even when this 5/is granted.

This is most important, and I think the Minister should give us an assurance so that we—as Deputies and other people, as county councillors— will not be fighting with county managers, home assistance officers and other officials about this matter, that we will not have to waste the time of this House asking questions here of the Minister for Social Welfare later on in the year. The matter should be clarified at this stage, so that the increase will not interfere in any way or be taken into account in determining home assistance allowances. I hope the Minister will give that assurance because I can tell him, if he does not, there will be many questions asked in this House, a good deal of agitation at local authority level, and a good deal of hardship caused to the people concerned. But I think the Minister is clever enough to appreciate it is local elections year and that these could become very involved if some steps like this were taken. Then again, of course, the local elections will be over and done with when the people start getting their 5/- and if and when the 5/- or 2/6d home assistance has been taken from them.

I want to refer at this stage to the general position in rural Ireland. When I talk of rural Ireland, I mean the country places, small towns and villages in the heart of this country. These areas particularly have suffered over the past number of years. Just before last Christmas, grants were given—as had been the case always— to local authorities to carry out special employment works. The notice issued to local authorities by the Department with these grants, said they were to be devoted to urban areas, that there was no money available for the rural areas. This has caused further hardship in rural areas; it has caused more unemployment and has also helped in the present denuding of the rural areas.

We have had also in the past number of years a lack of new houses in rural areas. I shall not go into this in great detail because it has already been dealt with adequately—not alone lack of houses but lack of money to repair local authority houses. The extent of the damage done to health and to property as a result of the failure of the Government to make money available to do necessary repairs to local authority houses will never be known. Water and sewerage schemes have also been held up. We hope these schemes will be speeded up, now that we are assured by the speakers on the opposite side that everything is going well.

There is another grave matter of discontent in rural Ireland, that is, the failure of the Government to provide money to repair roadways and cul-desac roads. People living in rural Ireland were called upon—in one of the Budgets of last year—to pay extra taxation on their cars, of 25 per cent. They, in common with their city folk, had to pay that extra 25 per cent, but they, not in common with their city folk, are expected to drive on roads full of potholes, roads which, in wintertime, are as soft as quicksand and, in summertime, one cannot see for quite some time after a car has passed because of dust. County councils have been doing their best to provide this very necessary amenity for people living in rural areas but the Government have repeatedly turned down appeals for any additional money for this work in recent years.

There is also a slow-down in the provision of ESB supply to certain rural areas. People who applied in the past 12 months have been told by the ESB that, due to certain circumstances, they cannot provide the capital to connect their houses and they do not expect to be in a position to do so for anything from two to three years. This has been the stock reply to quite a number of people in my constituency who have applied for this essential service. They have been told they will have to wait two or three years. This is another cog in the wheel that turns to depopulate rural Ireland. Steps should be taken to make capital available to see that people who require electricity will get it within a reasonable time, without being told there will be a period of two to three years before it can be supplied.

It would seem to be a matter for an Estimate rather than for the Budget debate.

I was referring to it as one of the hardships the people of rural Ireland are confronted with today by reason of the failure of the Government to provide the necessary capital to carry out these works.

I should like again to ask the Minister to tell us what definite hopes he has for the future. This is a time of suspicion as far as ministerial statements are concerned. In early 1965, when a general election was pending, the Government successfully kept from the people vital information concerning the economy. I suppose, knowing Fianna Fáil, we cannot blame them for that, because it would most certainly have affected the outcome of that election, had the people known, when voting early in 1965, the exact state of health of the economy. Unfortunately for the people, they discovered only after the election how the economy stood.

I should like to conclude by asking the Minister to give us an assurance that the economic trends, which are less unfavourable now than they have been for some time past, will continue in that direction. I hope we will not be back here before the end of the year discussing another Budget. As it happens, the Minister for Finance is not the only Minister who can bring in a measure that results in increased taxation and increased costs for the people. Not alone should we have an assurance from the Minister but we should have an assurance from the Government as a whole that this will not be so.

I have listened for the past week to Fianna Fáil Deputies throwing bouquets at the Minister for Finance.

And the Deputy is going to join them.

We heard Deputy Dowling today. From his speech, one would gather that anything ever done in this country was done by Fianna Fáil. He mentioned the number of years they have been in office. The Minister has remarked that I was going to join in distributing bouquets to him. I have no intention of doing so because I think the Minister's task this year was an easy one, for the simple reason that his predecessors, the Minister for Finance before him and the various Ministers for Finance in his Party over the past number of years, have put their hands deeper and deeper into the pockets of the taxpayers. Surely, having scraped the bottom of that pocket, there was no alternative for the present Minister, especially in view of the forthcoming local elections, but to bring in an election Budget? I am convinced that the Minister's predecessor budgeted for a surplus last year. By any chance, would the present Minister be budgeting for a deficit? I would be very interested, as would, I am sure, the general public, to hear the Minister give a guarantee there will be no supplementary Budget within the next 12 months.

Three years ago in this House, when the then Minister for Finance, now Senator Ryan, introduced the turnover tax, we were told that the old methods of taxation were obsolete and that we would have to turn to new types of taxation; but in every year since the turnover tax was introduced, we have had successive Ministers for Finance going back to the old methods of taxation. Not to mention last year, this year we see the Minister putting increased taxation on the workman's pint and, of course, we have the old annual tax-spinner of the increase on 20 cigarettes and on tobacco.

I admit certain increases have been doled out in social welfare benefits, but surely these increases, which will be doled out after the local elections, are very small when we think of the recent steep increase in the price of bread, which passed practically without comment. Bread is the daily food of each and every one of these people who will get this small benefit. If we assess the increased cost per week to an old age pensioner of his bread together with the taxation put on his pint by this Budget, how much will that man gain by the meagre increase being doled out to him by the Minister for Finance? It was the least the Minister might do, and my only regret is that it is not half enough.

While on the subject of social welfare benefits, I should like to know what the increases will be in the insurance stamp. I should like also to refer to the question of national health insurance benefit. There is a general complaint that if a person becomes ill and is, or should be, in receipt of national health insurance benefit, in most cases the people are back at work before they receive payment. I have heard of numerous cases where it was two to three weeks before they were paid. It might be no harm if the Minister drew that to the attention of the Minister for Social Welfare.

As I said, from some of the speeches from the opposite benches, one would think everything in the garden was rosy. I am not quite sure what the employment position is in Dublin city, but I can say without fear of contradiction that over the past two months in my own area and in my own town, Carlow, I have never seen such widespread unemployment. It is pitiful to pass up the street each day and see the queue outside the labour exchange. I do hope the announcement made in the House a few weeks ago in regard to Heinz and Erin Foods will in some way help to relieve the unemployment position in the area.

Some reliefs have been given in this Budget. Roughly £5 million is being given to the farming community. This is a very small contribution, but I am convinced that were it not for the pressure of public opinion, even this meagre £5 million, when you take it over the whole country, would never have been given. We do realise that there is a derating of agricultural land up to a limit of £20 valuation and on a gradual scale up to £30. We are glad to see that the Minister has taken note of the proposals which were announced not this year or last year but years ago in the Fine Gael policy. He has also taken note, to a limited degree, of our policy in regard to income tax allowance for medical expenses in respect of a sum of £50 and over. I did hear the Minister say this was the recommendation of the Commission, and I take it that was the reason for taking the figure of £50. I would be interested to hear if it would have cost the Exchequer much more if the Minister had gone over the limit of £50.

It would.

However, I do agree it is some relief. It is a step in the right direction which has been advocated in this House for the past four or five years or more by Deputy Paddy Byrne.

I am glad to see the Minister has taken note of his recommendation in this respect.

I have mentioned the derating of agricultural land. There appears to be no relief whatsoever in this Budget for the small shopkeeper, for the person in the urban area who, just as much as the person in the rural area, year after year, has been burdened with increasing rates. Throughout the country this year rates have reached an all-time high. It is practically impossible—and I am sure there are very few would dare to contradict me when I say this—for the ordinary shopkeeper to carry on any business due to the increase in rates, the increased cost of living and the competition from various combines. It is regrettable that these people should fade from the business life of this country and the Minister should have given some relief to them in his Budget.

I should like to take this opportunity during the Budget debate of referring to housing. I am convinced the housing drive is not at all what it should be. Not alone in my own county but right through the country and here in Dublin it is impossible for people to get houses. There are waiting lists in every urban and county council. Young people intending to get married and married couples find it is impossible to get housing. In my own town, we are going ahead with a scheme but that scheme will cater for only 55 to 60 families and there will still be 100 to 200 families waiting for housing. If we cannot put people into proper housing we are wasting our time talking about social justice and all the rest of it. One of our first duties is to ensure that our people are properly housed. I know a family consisting of father, mother and one child who for the past 12 months have been sleeping on a mattress on the floor of an urban council house because they cannot get housing. Even at that, they are not high on the priority list.

As I said at the beginning, the increases given to social welfare recipients are practically negligible vis-á-vis increases in the price of food and increased taxation which directly affect these people. When the Minister comes to conclude I hope he will be able to give the House a guarantee that there will be neither a mini nor a supplementary Budget within the next 12 months. I should like to hear that guarantee given before we enter on the campaign for the local government elections.

I have been amused listening to the speeches of Opposition Deputies, particularly that of the last speaker, Deputy Crotty, who said the increases in social welfare were practically negligible. I should like to inform Deputy Crotty——

"Governey" is the name.

I am sorry. I should like to inform Deputy Governey that the increases in social welfare and other benefits under this Budget will amount in a full year to £6¼ million. That is a sizeable sum. Since 1957, we, in Fianna Fáil, have had a tradition of giving increases to the social welfare classes and the record, I think, is pretty high. These people are the less well-off sections of the community. Fianna Fáil have never neglected them. We have always done our best when we had the money, as we have it here, to improve their position.

Deputy Governey and other Opposition speakers claim that everything in this Budget is part of the policy adumbrated by them. It reminds me of the cartoon in last Sunday's Independent in which everybody is claiming something as part of his policy. In the past six months, I have not heard any member of the Opposition calling for the derating of agricultural land, increases in social welfare benefits to a particular figure, or taxation relief in regard to medical expenses. These ideas were thrown out on occasions years back. Sometimes people throw out a great many ideas in the hope that some will come to fruition and they can then claim credit for them. During the past six months, when the Minister and the Government were seriously concerned as to what they would do in this Budget, what relief should be given and what taxation imposed, there was a paucity of ideas from the Opposition.

This Budget, I think, took most of the Opposition completely by surprise because of the reliefs given and the wide field covered. The tax on cigarettes and beer will bring in something short of £3 million. The Minister is giving out three times that by way of relief. This Budget is the fruit of the wise policy followed over the past few years.

There was little talk in recent months about derating. Land under £20 valuation accounts for 75 per cent of all the land of Ireland and another ten per cent practically comes in under £33 valuation. The small farmer realises this is a tremendous relief to him. Rates have always been the bugbear of the small farmers. I doubt if derating was mentioned once during the past 12 months. The Minister is to be congratulated on bringing in something welcomed throughout the entire country. Constituents to whom I have been talking are very pleased indeed.

The relief in connection with medical expenses is very welcome because medical expenses constitute a hardship for quite a number of people in the middle income group. There was no tax relief whatsoever for them. I know, from making representations in regard to bills for medical expenses to local authorities, that quite a number of people will benefit from this concession. It is very welcome because it was hard for those people to pay out of their own earnings and there was no relief whatsoever in income tax. I believe this is a very welcome thing in this Budget.

Bringing the dependent relative allowance from £120 to £140 is particularly welcome because it brings in all people who have an income under £2 12s. 6d. a week. A person can claim a dependent relative allowance for anyone under that figure. That ensures that a widow's son can claim for his mother.

Deputy Governey said that there was a need for a housing drive. I am surprised to hear that. For the past few months, I know that every county council is making a tremendous effort in that direction and I am sure Carlow is no different from Kildare. In Kildare, we have practically 400 houses advertised and about 300 of them have been started since January. Therefore, I am at a loss to understand why Deputy Governey says that. I know that if local authorities send housing schemes up for sanction, in some cases it is only a matter of days, or certainly only a few weeks, until they are back with the local authority with the necessary sanction. They can then go ahead and advertise for builders.

We have been waiting three years for a scheme and we cannot get sanction.

You must be lucky in Kildare.

There must be something else wrong. I have been dealing with schemes in Meath and in Kildare and they have gone up to the Department and have come back inside a week, so there must be other factors involved.

Yes, money factors: no money.

Get on to Donogh O'Malley. He will fix it up for you.

His case is full now between Trinity and National, and the croziers, and the bacon factory he promised pensions to.

Deputy Coughlan should allow other speakers to make their speeches.

I am sorry, but the Minister intervened.

The money is there for housing. If the local authorities send up their schemes and have them all in order when they come to the Department, sanction is given straight away. That is a big change, we know. It just shows how anxious we are to get on with the housing drive. In the two counties with which I deal, I find that the schemes are coming back and going ahead straight away. We have schemes of houses going up in Kildare and in Maddenstown in the Curragh. There are over 200 new houses being started in Newbridge, and a new scheme in Naas. They are four main ones. There are smaller schemes in Sallins which have been started since 1st January. If the other counties follow suit, we will have plenty of houses in the country. We will probably never do away with all the needs. There will always be a delay before we can fill the needs of everybody. If one is building a house one must wait a few months for it. The same applies to the local authorities.

This is an expansionist Budget. The Minister has taken every aspect into account when preparing his Budget. Incentives are provided for industry——

Is the Deputy talking about the bacon industry?

——in order to provide employment for our rising population. We know that for the first time in over 100 years, we had an increase in population two years ago, and this is continuing.

The Deputy is talking about labour exchange industries.

When the inter-Party Government were in power, there were 90,000 on the unemployment register and what was very much worse, there was a defeatist attitude in the country. People were saying the country was finished. When we came into power, we put new life into the country and showed the people that this was a good country to live in.

And pay £100 for a dinner.

We have had a growth rate of expansion as good as, and better than, most other countries in Europe. We introduced the First Programme for Economic Expansion and it is by sheer planning for the years ahead that we got the results. It will be the same as the years go on. We have a policy to expand the country and this Budget is another step in that direction. It covers every aspect; no sphere has been left out. The farmers have got £5 million by way of rates relief. The numbers of pigs have been falling and we have not had the expansion we would like but the Minister has maintained the scheme of grants for another year.

Progress reported: Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 25th April, 1967.
Top
Share