As the Minister remarked, this Bill implements some of the recommendations of the survey team that was set up five years ago and which recommended certain changes, including some of the steps that have been taken in this Bill as well as an increase in nominations and an increase in capital in respect of the National Stud. It is generally recognised, and the figure which was quoted by the Minister confirms, that the horse-breeding industry is one of the most valuable industries we have. So far as the value to the country is concerned it is measured not merely in terms of actual income derived from sales or exports but also in terms of the valuable employment provided in widely dispersed areas, in many cases employment of the very highest standard, giving good pay and conditions and enabling people to live in areas where life is more attractive than would be the case if they had to migrate to towns or cities.
The industry, as it is described, consists, I suppose, of two parts, thoroughbred breeding and racing which is not the subject matter of this legislation but, of course, attracts probably the greatest amount of attention. As the Minister remarked the thoroughbred industry is in a healthy state. To that extent I believe that the country and particularly those employed in it owe to the proprietors of these studs a considerable debt for the employment which is provided. While naturally people are in it for profit, nevertheless, it is the initiative and skill of the owners or directors of these studs that enable valuable rural employment to be provided and also assist the economy through the breeding and sale of thoroughbred horses.
With the very substantial increase in the value of bloodstock in the post-war era this particular aspect of the horse industry is confined to those who have the capital and are in general in a position to engage in the industry on a relatively large scale. There are, of course, exceptions. Very often the small breeders achieve success which does not come to the larger ones to anything like the same extent, but that is part of the luck of the game as well as the skill involved in the individual's management and breeding of horses.
This Bill is designed to deal with the hunter, the showjumper and the three-day-eventer as well as the riding pony. Because of the greatly increased mechanisation which has been described as the price of progress, the numbers of half-bred horses have declined very steeply. According to a reply to a recent question there has been quite a remarkable drop in the numbers even in the five years since the survey team was first set up. In 1965 the number of horses, other than bloodstock, exported was 9,767 valued at £957,330. The following year it was slightly up, but last year the number had dropped to just over 5,000, though in actual fact because of the decrease in the value of money the value of the 5,000-odd sold was £973,742. Therefore, in the space of five years the number of horses other than thoroughbreds sold had dropped by half.
It is therefore important that the measures which were recommended, one of which has already been put into effect, should be not merely availed of but if necessary added to. I had a look at the figures quoted in the report for the premiums and nominations that had been given. While they have been increased somewhat the rate that was available when this team reported was far too low compared with present prices and the costs involved.
It is the small breeder who needs encouragement and assistance. Sometimes people say it is impossible precisely to define the small breeder. Quite a few successful thoroughbred breeders have very small studs. Is it decided because a man has say one, two or three mares that he is a small breeder? This man could be a very successful breeder and may not necessarily need the assistance, or he may have, because of other interests, or his success at breeding, access to either stallions or nominations over and above what we normally term those of a small breeder. I do not want to get involved in a definition problem but I would say the average small breeder is the farmer who keeps one mare or possibly two mares and who—either himself or a member of his family—hunts, show jumps or goes in for various events and breeds either a half-bred or in some cases a thoroughbred.
For the purpose of this discussion the important thing is those who breed hunters or show horses. I believe there is a complete difference between the problem experienced by small breeders and the ordinary thoroughbred breeders and this is a factor which must be taken into account. In breeding either show horses, hunters or event horses or for that matter chasers or hurdlers the time factor is a very big element. Horses do not reach the position in which, in general, they can be produced at shows at under four years old. There are of course exceptions but on balance it is five years from the time the mare has been got in foal before the person concerned knows whether the animal he has bred, if he has retained it, is successful. In that time a whole lot of things may have happened. The mare for one reason or another may have been sold or failed to produce. Many people are unable to find out subsequently how the animal they bred progressed and by the time it is successful, for one reason or another the mare is gone.
Special consideration should be given to the small breeder and also to the person who produces what is described as a store horse, whether it is a half-bred or a thoroughbred. Store horses take three to four years to be of any value to their owners, although in some cases they are sold as unbroken two- or three-year-olds. If they are by a successful sire and the mare has a reasonable background the prospect of sale is reasonably good. In many cases the beneficiary is not the breeder because for one reason or another by the time the animal shows potential, or has developed his potential, the breeder may have either disposed of the mare or sold other produce at less than what they would have made if the success which attended the earlier progeny, either a hunter, show jumper or eventer had been discovered.
The time factor is important here and special consideration should be given to encouraging the small breeders. Horse breeding, no matter how it is looked at, is an expensive business. It is naturally more expensive if it is unsuccessful than if it is successful. Nowadays a whole lot of expenses are incurred by breeders and a special case can be made for encouragement both in respect of the premiums and also in respect of grants or incentives to the breeders concerned.
The Minister mentioned the point, but he has not given direct indication of what is involved, that the survey team recommended the idea of a lottery. I agree that is a bad idea. It might be all right but it would be impossible in our circumstances with the provisions which apply to lotteries, confining them to charities to operate a lottery in respect of this. In any event, it is possible that there is a limit beyond which we can expect to get revenue from lotteries and the number of sources in that regard have already been tapped. I would be interested to hear from the Minister if any estimate has been made of the sum of money it is proposed to provide under section 13 or is it proposed to leave that to the board when it is set up? It may be that at this stage it is difficult to put a figure on it. At the same time it is obvious from the figures which were given in appendix D that the amount allocated for nominations—although I was glad to note from what the Minister said in the opening sentences of his speech that the number of nominations at 6,000 is more than double what was awarded three years ago—was less than £12,000 in 1965. Approximately half the number of mares presented for nominations were approved and subsequently a number of them were actually sent for nomination.
It is an extraordinary commentary that the fees charged for some of the stallions are hardly more than you would pay in an AI centre at the moment in respect of a cow. Some of them were as low as £3 so that the change in the amount of the fee is obviously warranted if we want to encourage the small breeders in this regard. On this matter, it is to some extent impossible to divorce the consideration of thoroughbred breeding in respect of 'chasers and hurdlers from that of show horses, jumpers and others. They are not entirely unrelated. Although nowadays a great many of the successful 'chasers and hurdlers have blood lines which, compared with formerly, are far more distinguished in respect of ancestry and performance, nevertheless, a number of smaller breeders breed both thoroughbreds and three-quarter breds which, if not successful as either 'chasers or hurdlers, may be successful as show jumpers and eventers.
In that respect, gratitude is due to the farmers for their willing co-operation in permitting and assisting hunting. The vast majority of farmers in the hunting areas of this country welcome hunting and this should be appreciated, particularly nowadays when a great many of the people who ride or hunt have urban backgrounds. Of course, this is a welcome development.
With the decline in hunting among farmers, their sons and daughters, because of mechanisation, there has been an increase in the number of people with urban backgrounds who hunt and ride. This has been encouraged by things like the pony club, riding schools, gymkhanas and so forth. At the same time, a number of the people who engage in such events and who also hunt, because of their urban backgrounds may not appreciate adequately the co-operation which is so willingly given by farmers and which is so vital to the success of hunting.
This industry is all of a piece and in order to promote the development and success of the jumper and the eventer, facilities for hunting and free and generous assistance to it are most important. The farmer is to be thanked for this. We must consider the cost of maintaining fences and the problems involved in regard to TB tested cattle and so on and the anxiety of all farmers to ensure that disease is not carried from one farm to another. Those who hunt, therefore, must appreciate the generous co-operation of farmers, without which hunting could not be carried on. This is a two-way traffic and those who hunt should bear in mind the responsibilities and the risks involved for farmers in regard to their stock and the expense that could be involved for any damage done. Members of hunts generally ensure as far as possible that adequate steps are taken to repair any damage.
Again referring to mechanisation, there is a great deal to be said for training schools or a training scheme for farriers. This is a highly skilled craft but because of increased mechanisation it is a dying one. Farriers are difficult to get. Those engaged in the craft have to travel considerable distances and those who avail of their services are very glad to get them. It is, therefore, essential that those engaged in this skilled craft should be properly trained. One of the recommendations by the survey team is that an apprenticeship scheme be provided and I understand that some of the vocational schools are doing something about it. It is a craft which can be learned from a person already trained or from an existing farrier. It involves the entire horse industry and all engaged in it. The presence of suitably qualified and trained farriers is a sine qua non as far as the industry is concerned.
The survey team made certain other recommendations which are not directly dealt with but which were referred to by the Minister. One is in respect of the National Stud. When the National Stud was originally taken over just after the war it achieved considerable success with the first stallions purchased. The people there at the time set out on a certain line of policy and the initial purchases were by far the most successful. The stallions purchased since never achieved the success of the original three, Royal Charger, Preciptic and Black Rock.
Those three horses were purchased on the basis of providing for the breeder in this country sires that would cater for different strata of breeders. Royal Charger was a classic or semi-classic horse and proved most outstanding. Preciptic was a tough and consistent racehorse with a consistent pedigree and he achieved great success, being made available at a lower fee than Royal Charger. Then, there was Black Rock, a French bred, successful mainly in breeding chasers and hunters. Subsequently, the National Stud purchased such sires as Tulyar and probably the best thing they did in respect of Tulyar was to avail of the opportunity to sell him.
It is important that the stud should decide on the policy to be adopted in the future to cater for different strata of breeders. As the Minister mentioned in the course of his speech, the breeder of thoroughbreds, particularly the larger breeder, is in a position to avail of the more expensive sires because of his financial resources. The smaller breeder, because of lack of capital, should be entitled to have from the National Stud stallions available at reasonable fees. In this context the question of PLV or some other criterion should be brought to bear. Here again, however, it is difficult to decide what is a small breeder. Valuations differ from county to county and the size of a farm may not bear any relation to the size of the breeder. He may be a man dealing mainly in cattle, or even in tillage, who keeps a mare. In the context of horse breeding he would be regarded as a small breeder.
The survey team recommended that the National Stud should always have available a prestige stallion. A prestige stallion can be defined as a classic horse. The cost of a successful classic horse is quite considerable and it is never certain that such a horse, no matter what his background, will be a success. It is argued that if the fee for such a horse is sufficiently high he will have paid for himself in three or four years at stud and this is partially true. However, excluding the sale of Tulyar and possibly Panaslipper, they have failed to achieve the objective which was mentioned in the idea of a prestige stallion.
The tendency nowadays for most of the large studs is to avail either of the syndication of nominations or a number of studs interchange, through syndication, nominations to different stallions which course is possibly the most successful way of dealing with the matter. In that connection the change that was made by agreement here last year in the Finance Act should enable those who own stallions, irrespective of whether they have stud farms in this country, to locate at satisfactory terms stallions in Irish studs and to avail of the tax concessions. From discussions I have had with breeders I am aware that the change we made in the Finance Act has enabled a number of successful racehorses who would ordinarily have been sold and sent abroad to be located at studs other than those owned by the actual owner of the stallion.
Regarding the question of riding establishments, there is a good deal to be said for laying down minimum requirements. At the same time, I agree it would be undesirable, without advance notice, to impose unduly onerous restrictions on riding schools or establishments that hire out horses. There is a case for providing a number of indoor riding establishments and this might be considered in conjunction with Bord Fáilte. There is no doubt that due to weather and other factors, the advantages of indoor riding establishments are considerable. They save the riders in inclement weather and are also useful when the ground is so hard to ride outdoors. A number of the larger racing establishments have indoor schools for exercising and there are certain other indoor establishments provided in Dublin and in some other centres.
This practice should be encouraged. I hold the view that we could extend considerably the attractions of riding and trekking, particularly for tourists. However, it is important that minimum safety and other requirements should be laid down. Most prudent owners of That is a very important consideration such schools will make certain that they have adequate insurance but certain minimum precautions require to be taken. I agree with the Minister that it is important at this stage that an open mind be kept in regard to the question of licences and I presume this is one of the matters the new board will consider.
The idea of establishing a single training centre was also mentioned. I am not certain that this is a practical proposition or, if it is, it would be confined entirely to those whom one might perhaps incorrectly describe as "professionals". For those people who engage in show jumping it is essential that they retain their amateur status in order to comply with the requirements of the International Equestrian Federation. At the same time, in the ordinary accepted sense of the word "professional" the standard of skill nowadays required for jumping is much greater than it was before the war and that is one of the factors that has had an influence on the change in international events.
In pre-war times most international teams were army teams because most European countries, and even nations outside Europe, had equitation schools. However, the mechanisation of armies and the transition from pre-war to post-war conditions has meant that, with few exceptions, the numbers involved in equitation in any army is much less than previously. There was genuine agreement here that it was a wise decision to allow mixed teams to compete in equestrian events. Considering our resources, both financially and in regard to personnel, the standard achieved by our Army and civilian riders abroad bears comparison with the best. We have sent abroad riders, both Army and civilian, who not only have brought the highest distinction on themselves but have reflected great credit on the country.
The survey team recommended that qualified trainers be engaged from abroad but here again the luck or chance element enters into it. Some of the most highly successful riders and performers are not the best instructors; likewise, some riders who never attain the same skill in the saddle can be excellent instructors. There is no royal road to success here. In many ways a horseman is born and not made, although he can of course improve himself. I think it is a great tribute to our horsemen and women that they achieved such success compared with the opportunities and facilities, financial and otherwise, which exist in many other countries. International show jumping has changed a good deal, the military element is much less prominent and the civilian competitors are, in the main, engaged in it for a living, which, in one sense, makes them professional but at the same time involves them in the nominal retention of amateur status.
The provision of either a single training centre or a number of riding schools in various parts of the country would be expensive and very few of the people involved would have the necessary capital. To that extent this board, possibly in consultation with Bord Fáilte, should consider setting up, not merely in the big cities but in other centres to which tourists go, centres where horses can be bred. While horsebreeding is not restricted in any sense of the word certain areas are more successful than others. One of the interesting things about the statistics published in respect of premiums was that Kildare, which is a notable county because of the great number of horses trained there, had no nomination. The only other county which I saw missing there was Offaly. The idea of encouraging small breeders is that with very few exceptions horses can be bred anywhere. In fact, some successful horses have been bred on very bad land. The advantage of assisting people to breed horses is that they can carry this scheme out in almost every part of the country. Horse-breeding in Connemara has provided an income for people who have much less chance of getting a living off the land. In many cases the quality of the ponies bred in Connemara has been exceptional.
The Minister said that the survey team recommended that particular bodies should be represented on the new Horse Board. According to the way the Bill has been drawn up this is not proposed, although the Minister has said he would consult with them. I think it is important to get the co-operation and goodwill of the various bodies, especially the long-established ones, involved in the business. I am thinking of such bodies as the Horse Riding and Jumping Association, the Olympic Horse Society, the Thoroughbred Breeders and the Connemara Pony Society. The RDS has also done good work. The report commented on the fact that the RDS was in the anomalous position of promoting shows but having to rely on voluntary efforts. With the changing pattern of life it is impossible for people to be engaged in such voluntary activities. I think their contribution should be recognised and they should be consulted and represented as far as possible on this. I believe all these bodies should be consulted and a representative board built up. I notice there is no similar requirement in the National Stud Act but this may be included in the articles of association.
Section 11 of the Bill provides that:
A member of the Board who has—
(a) any interest in any company with which the Board proposes to make any contract, or
(b) any interest in any contract which the Board proposes to make,
shall disclose to the Board the fact of the interest and the nature thereof, and shall take no part in any deliberation or decision of the Board relating to the contract, and the disclosure shall be recorded in the minutes of the Board.
I think this is an important requirement because I believe it is absolutely essential in matters of this kind that there be a full disclosure of the interest of anyone whose concern might conflict with the discharging of his duty as a member of a board.
I do not know how the size of the board was arrived at. I understand there are 11 members on the Racing Board. I suppose the same number was hit on here. If the board is to provide regional representation a reasonably large board is necessary. On the other hand, 11 may be a bit large from the point of view of effective working. The Racing Board consists of 11 members but it was specifically designed to take a certain number from the Turf Club and the Irish National Hunt steeplechase committee—three from each—and five others. In this particular instance no specific number is to be drawn from any source. The discretion is left entirely to the Minister. It is, of course, difficult to cover every eventuality, but there is something to be said for specifically naming some of the bodies that were consulted and which have been in existence for a number of years.
I remember when a number of people came together to found the Jumping Association after the war. It developed to such an extent that a number of regions had to be created. There is now what is generally known as the southern region, which in the main, I think, covers the State, though actually it has been subdivided, and then there is the northern region. The Jumping Association have undoubtedly done a great deal of good work and a great number of those who have contributed to its success have themselves no direct interest or, if they have an interest, it is somewhat remote. Many of them have given very valuable service and they deserve the best thanks of all those involved.
The Connemara Breeders Society is of much older vintage. It goes back to the first World War or to the years immediately after that. This society has done very valuable work. Some form of recognition might be included for some of these bodies. Because of the number of bodies, it is not, of course, very easy to make a selection. It is a matter that could be considered further with advantage on the Committee Stage.
This is a very important industry and every possible encouragement should be given to it. It provides in the main, although nowadays a number of females are employed, good male employment in the rural areas. The employment is dispersed widely over virtually the whole country, certainly over the majority of the counties. remembering the advocacy on the provision of employment in these areas. This is an industry in which there is an immense amount of native skill and ability. There are many natural advantages from the point of view of soil and climate. As the Minister pointed out, people who are not themselves involved in either horse breeding or riding are interested in the industry. One of the advantages of television is that, in the case of both racing and show jumping, this is as good a way as any to watch events, though I would myself always prefer to be on the spot. But television has encouraged people who never had an interest previously to take an interest.
This is an industry of which a country can be proud. We can be proud of our riders, both Army and civilian. All cannot win. All cannot attain the same standards but, allowing for our resources and the resources of the individuals themselves, the success that has been achieved reflects great credit not only on them but on the country. They have proved themselves to be ambassadors of the very highest calibre when they go abroad. They have attracted the most favourable attention for the country. Anything we can do from the point of view of promotion by way of legislation or financial assistance should be done. The steps taken in this particular measure and in some of the others mentioned are a move in the right direction. At the same time, we should not be complacent. There has been a decline in the short space of five years in the number of horses, other than bloodstock, exported. There has been undoubtedly some increase in the number of racehorses in training. That is to be welcomed.
The idea of a levy, such as was initially introduced in respect of the Tote and subsequently extended by the Racing Board on its establishment, has saved racing so far as this country is concerned. Some years after the introduction of that levy here the late Aga Khan, the father of the present Aga Khan, advocated in a series of articles in The Times that the same thing should be done in Britain and Britain did subsequently, many years afterwards, adopt the same policy. The Aga Khan, was, of course, a very successful breeder, and so is his son. The steps taken here at that time have acted as a headline elsewhere. The French have a similar arrangement. Without the financial assistance and without the increase in stakes it would have been impossible to bring racing to the pitch it has reached. Both the trainers and the jockeys deserve credit. We have produced trainers who are second to none. Most of them started from relatively small beginnings. They have achieved international success and, in many of the big races now, the question is what Irish runners are involved because they are the ones that will have to be beaten.
We are to a great extent dependent on the horse breeding industry. It provides valuable employment in a great many areas. From that point of view it is essential that it should be encouraged in every way. Changes suggested here will contribute to its further development. There may be certain details which can be discussed at greater length on the Committee Stage. The changes are not merely desirable but essential to maintain the industry at its present level and to expand it in the future. These proposals will, I believe, contribute to that. It is important, however, to keep an open mind in regard to certain aspects. It is important to get from those involved their views and suggestions on how to operate the industry. The recommendations made here contain a number of valuable suggestions. Some are not, perhaps, of any great significance but those that are valuable should be implemented as quickly as possible.