asked the Minister for External Affairs the number of officials in his Department who are engaged exclusively in dealing with matters pertinent to Ireland's application for admission to the EEC.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Membership of EEC.
41.
The number of diplomatic staff concerned in my Department is 14 of which nine are at headquarters and five are attached to our Mission to the European Communities in Brussels. The latter will be increased by two further officers very shortly.
There are, of course, officials in each of the other Departments concerned who are also engaged exclusively on work related to our application for membership of the European Communities.
42.
asked the Minister for External Affairs if he will make a statement on the progress of Ireland's application for membership of the EEC.
43.
asked the Minister for External Affairs if he will make a statement on the progress to date in negotiations on Ireland's application for membership of the European Economic Community.
44.
asked the Minister for External Affairs whether he will make a statement on the current position regarding Ireland's EEC application.
45.
asked the Minister for External Affairs if he will make a statement on the progress to date of the discussions relating to the Government's application for membership of the EEC and if he will indicate what safeguards have been sought for the protection of Irish industry and agriculture.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 42, 43, 44 and 45 together.
The negotiations with Ireland and the other applicant countries are taking place within the format of what is called the "Conference between the European Communities and those States which have applied for membership of the Communities." The opening of this conference took place in Luxembourg on 30th June at which statements were made on behalf of the Communities and each of the applicant countries. Copies of the statement made by me on that occasion have already been furnished to Deputies. Since the Luxembourg meeting, we have had two negotiating meetings with the Communities — one at Ministerial level on 21st September, and the other at the level of Ministers' Deputies on 20th October. It has been agreed with the Communities that we should have one meeting at Ministerial level every three months and one meeting at deputies' level of Ministers' deputies on 20th however, that meetings could be held more frequently if this was felt to be necessary. We are satisfied that the frequency of meetings agreed for this country, which is the same as that agreed for Denmark and Norway, should provide adequate parallelism between our negotiations and those of Britain.
Copies of the main statement made by me at the Ministerial meeting with the Communities on 21st September are being made available to Deputies. In that statement I set out in some detail the matters which we consider require to be discussed in our negotiations including problems of particular concern to us for which we are seeking special arrangements. On the basis of this statement and information furnished to the Community Delegation at the meeting in reply to questions, agreement was reached on the items to be given priority in the negotiations and the manner in which these items should be dealt with at this stage. Certain matters are being discussed further by the Ministers' deputies and other matters have been referred to the Commission for preliminary study in contact with the Irish Delegation. Decisions on the various matters arising will, of course, be taken at Ministerial level.
Agreement was also reached at the Ministerial meeting on a procedure for consultations with the Irish Delegation during the negotiations. This procedure provides that, after Ministerial meetings with each of the applicant countries, the chairman of the Community Delegation will inform the other applicant countries of the progress made. The chairman will provide similar briefings after meetings of Ministers' deputies if the problems under consideration so warrant. In addition, the Commission is to provide the applicant countries with a constant supply of detailed information. The Community will be prepared to enter into consultations with an applicant country upon request. The conclusions reached in the negotiations with each of the applicant countries are to be provisional and final conclusions are to be adopted only in multilateral discussions between the Community and all the applicant countries.
In preparation for further discussion, and to facilitate the studies by the Commission, memoranda have been submitted to the Community Delegation on a number of matters raised by the Irish side. Further memoranda will be submitted shortly.
At the meeting at deputies' level on 20th October there was a review of the state of work on the matters which have been referred to deputies and the Commission respectively. Statements were made by the Irish Delegation on various subjects and the Community Delegation indicated that their examination and study would proceed in the light of the memoranda submitted or to be submitted and the statements made at the meeting by the Irish Delegation.
The next meeting at Ministerial level between Ireland and the Communities will take place on 15th December. In the meantime, there will be a further meeting at deputies' level on 27th November.
The Minister was at some pains to indicate the detailed steps and arrangements that are being made to distribute information. Would the Minister indicate to the House what steps are proposed to keep Deputies informed, at least to some extent, as to what is happening? Secondly, would the Minister confirm, if such be the case, that since the negotiations opened the representatives of the Community have made no requirement whatsoever regarding the qualification or the abandonment of Ireland's policy of neutrality?
In regard to the second question, there was no requirement whatever. In reference to the first question, I think we will circulate to Deputies statements made by me. The statements are prepared ones which indicate our policy and the lines we wish to follow. I have asked the Department of External Affairs to try to find a way to give full information to Deputies. I shall follow this up as I think they should have full information. The Taoiseach undertook to inform the parties and in this way the parties will be informed.
We have not heard a great deal to date but, of course, we realise the Taoiseach was otherwise engaged.
I did distribute the statement I made in Luxembourg and the statement made at Brussels is in the course of being distributed.
Would the Minister agree that the account of the recent discussions published in the Agence Europe Bulletin is substantially accurate and shall we have to continue to depend on this source of information to find out what is happening?
I think the Deputy can accept that if I can find a way of adequately informing all Deputies I shall do that. In fact, the Taoiseach has undertaken to do that.
In the meantime can the Minister state if the account is substantially accurate?
I prefer to give our own account.
The Minister specifically mentioned his own statement of 30th June in Luxembourg. In that statement he used the form of words that he accepted the institutions and the principles of the Community "without reservation". I should like to ask the Minister in view of what he has discovered in the intervening period, particularly with regard to the effect of the Mansholt proposals on the structure of the Irish agricultural community, whether he would like to repeat to the House this formula of "without reservation", or whether the Minister has discovered any reservations in the interval?
I do not think the Deputy means that the Mansholt proposals have been accepted or adopted by the Community.
Surely the Minister is aware that proposals were submitted to the Commission in the spring of this year embodying some of the Mansholt proposals?
They have not been adopted. We have enough problems in life without fighting imaginary difficulties.
(Interruptions.)
However, to answer the question fully, it was required of the applicant countries to accept the Treaty of Rome and decisions made arising therefrom. The very fact of applying for membership meant that one accepted and had to declare acceptance of such decisions. I have no intention of conducting "soft" negotiations and of not making known our views on all aspects of decisions, but a basic requirement for an applicant was to accept the Treaty of Rome.
The Minister now suggests that acceptance of the Treaty of Rome was a condition of application. Is the Minister suggesting that the Norwegians in the negotiations are accepting the Treaty of Rome in the same sense as our Government?
The Deputy will find that it is only a matter of approach——
An empty formula.
It is a basic requirement for applicant countries to accept the Treaties of Paris and Rome. I do not think the Deputy need worry.
46.
asked the Minister for External Affairs when it is proposed to introduce legislation for those amendments of the Constitution which the Government has stated as being necessary for EEC membership.
It is the Government's intention that a Bill providing for amendment of the Constitution should be introduced in this House before Ireland's accession to the European Communities. It is not possible, however, to indicate at this stage when precisely such legislation will be introduced.
Can the Minister state whether these proposals in regard to the Constitution will be related directly to our application for membership of the EEC, to the question of votes at 18 years and to the problems in the North of Ireland?
The question relates to the EEC. To allow the rules arising out of the application of the Treaties of Rome and Paris to apply here certain changes in the Constitution will be necessary. They are not great changes. The Taoiseach has already indicated that the occasion of the changes in the Constitution may also be the occasion for other changes, not necessarily related to our accession to the EEC. It is a question for the Taoiseach and he has already answered it.
Would the Minister agree that there has been too literal a comparison between the clauses of the Treaty of Rome and our Constitution and that perhaps we are erring on the side of a too literal interpretation of these clauses in our desire to change our Constitution? I refer specifically to this apparent impression in Government circles that it is necessary to abandon our sovereignty. I am under the impression that this is too literal an interpretation of the clauses of the Treaty of Rome and that it is necessary to put this in the referendum.
I think that would be a matter of opinion. Some people are alarmed at the changes in the Constitution but I do not think the sovereignty of this country will be affected to the extent that some people fear.
Can the Minister state if there has been any suggestion whatever from the Commission to date that the Irish Constitution should be changed?
No.
May I ask the Minister why he should be displaying such an enormous anxiety at this point to take off his trousers in public before the Commission when there is——
I have no desire whatever to do that.
Will the Minister indicate what the nature of the amendments is to be if they do not concern sovereignty?
Broadly speaking, to allow the rules made by the Community on policy making, in which we would participate, to apply in this country. For example, under our Constitution the court of last resort in this country is the Supreme Court, but the European Court would be the deciding court in terms of the interpretation of the Treaty of Rome. There are certain things which are confined by our Constitution to our own action which would, under the Treaty of Rome, be under another institution. There is nothing to be apprehensive about at all.
Does the Minister know what they are?
I do.
We would like to have them. We would like the specific items to be mentioned.
I mentioned them.
We would like to hear the specific items which are to be changed.
I mentioned them before.
The remaining questions will appear on to-morrow's Order Paper.