asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will state, in respect of each of the years 1965 to 1969 and 1970 to the latest available date, the number of workers who were disallowed social welfare benefit as a result of the failure of their employers to pay insurance contributions due; what steps were taken by his Department for the recovery of all benefits due; and with what success.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Social Welfare Benefit.
25.
Statistical records are not kept which would enable information to be given in the form sought by the Deputy. Where a worker loses social welfare benefit as a result of the failure of his employer to stamp his insurance cards he is informed of his right to recover the lost benefit from the employer. He is also informed that my Department, if requested by him to do so, will on his behalf take action against the employer to recover the benefit lost. In some cases the matter is settled directly between the employee and his employer while in others my Department have taken action on behalf of the employee. In the case of disability benefit claims I can say that from 1965 to date my Department were successful in recovering benefit lost by employees in 120 cases.
I might remind the Deputy that I indicated in reply to previous questions that I proposed to make statutory provision to deal with the sort of case referred to by him in his question. On the 8th March, 1971, I amended the contributions regulations governing the payment and crediting of social insurance contributions so as to enable contributions to be credited where an employer fails or neglects to pay contributions due and the insured person is himself blameless in the matter thus avoiding loss of benefit to the employee. These regulations while not covering every situation in which loss of benefit could occur in the circumstances mentioned, will have the effect of greatly reducing the number of such cases. To meet those situations where paid contributions are necessary to enable an insured person to qualify for benefit I propose to amend the Social Welfare Acts and I hope to be in a position to include an appropriate provision in the forthcoming Social Welfare Bill.
26.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he is aware of the failure of an employer (name supplied) to stamp social welfare insurance cards; and what steps were taken to ensure that the 11 employees concerned did not suffer loss of social welfare benefits.
My Department are aware of the failure of the employer mentioned to stamp insurance cards and have made a claim on the official assignee for the arrears due.
Amending regulations, which I introduced recently, provide for the granting of credits to insured persons in order to minimise the loss of benefits in cases such as these. To meet situations where paid contributions are necessary to enable insured persons, whose employer has failed to pay contributions, to qualify for benefits, I propose, as stated in reply to previous questions, to amend the Social Welfare Acts and I hope to include an appropriate provision in the forthcoming Social Welfare Bill.
In view of the fact that this employer failed to stamp at least one employment card for one of his employees and this man's case was brought to the notice of the Minister's Department two years ago and it was only after a lot of trouble he succeeded in getting the card stamped or getting the money paid, was it not surprising that the Department did not take action before the firm closed down to try to ensure that the rest of the employees had their cards stamped?
We had some to-ing and fro-ing with the company obviously, pressing them to pay. There were two companies concerned actually. While we did recover some of the money by agreement, some of the cheques paid in respect of further arrears were not honoured. It was too late then to do anything.
Is it not true that if an employee is alleged to have drawn benefit, even a few pounds, he will be prosecuted, while this employer seems to have got away with quite a substantial amount of money causing a lot of hardship to employees who through no fault of their own found they were uninsured? Is there a different type of law for the employer if he is big enough?
No, I do not think the Deputy could assert that we are stricter with employees than we are with employers. That is not correct.
The newspapers will prove it.
If an employer becomes bankrupt or, worse still, finds himself in the position of having no funds at all to pay anybody, what is the position then in relation to the unfortunate employee? What happens when the employee cannot get the benefit due to him because of the employer's failure to stamp cards?
I have answered this in two questions here already and in other questions in the House.
Question No. 27.
With respect, I do not think the Minister has answered that question. What is the position when the employer is bereft of all funds or is bankrupt, in a condition where he cannot pay what he duly owes to the employee, the employee who paid his contribution?
I have already answered two questions on this and several questions in recent times. In regulations made by me on the 8th March I have taken authority, as far as existing legislation permits me to take it, to credit these people with contributions in respect of the period for which their contributions were not paid and in the forthcoming Social Welfare Bill, as I have announced twice today already, I am bringing in legislation to permit me to cover the situation fully, with credited contribution.