asked the Minister for Defence if in view of the serious concern about the disarming of an FCA training unit in Drogheda he will give an assurance that all possible precautions are now being taken to prevent a recurrence of such an incident.
Private Notice Questions: - FCA Training Centre Raid.
asked the Minister for Defence whether the Army is at present giving adequate protection to military installations throughout the State; whether consideration has been given to the possibility of further arms raids on FCA training sessions and if he will assure the House that all necessary precautions are being taken in this matter.
asked the Minister for Defence if he is aware of the serious public disquiet concerning the arms raid on the FCA training session at the FCA hall in Drogheda and the illegal seizure of Army weapons; and if he will make a full statement on the matter.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take the three questions together.
I take a very serious view of this incident. A military court of inquiry has been set up to investigate it and I will have the result of the inquiry at a very early date.
All necessary steps will be taken to prevent such incidents in the future.
Does the Minister consider it fair that the people serving in the FCA and in the Army generally should be exposed to this repeated humiliation because of lack of support from the Government?
I am not prepared to pass judgement on the situation at this point. An inquiry will be held tomorrow and the outcome of that inquiry will be examined. Pending that, I do not wish to prejudice the situation in that regard.
Is the Minister aware that the same assurances were given to this country three months ago after a raid at Kippure when machine guns were seized from FCA men there?
Would the Minister agree that the gist of his reply is that an inquiry will be held—that this is, to say the least, an unsatisfactory state of affairs, that there have been raids in the past and that it appears to be an extraordinary occurrence that ten armed men enter an FCA training hall and take away 15 rifles and two Gustav submachine-guns, to be used we do not know where? It is an unsatisfactory situation that the Minister should merely reply today that an inquiry will be held. What precautions are at present being taken throughout the State or are there any precautions being taken at present?
I would inform the Deputy that I am seriously concerned about this incident. Nevertheless, I would not attempt to anticipate the outcome of the inquiry. I feel that I should not prejudice the inquiry in any way. Every possible step is being taken to ensure the security of the arrangements relating to these activities, training activities and so on, but beyond what I said, I am not prepared to elaborate on the point.
You read the reply a second time. You are not fit to anment swer a supplementary question in the House and it is a disgrace to have you in the position.
Is the Minister satisfied that the men in question, those in charge of security, were armed, that their guns were loaded and that adequate resistance was given to those ten men who raided the training session? He should at least be in a position to advise us—as we have read in the public newspapers—to what extent resistance was, in fact, offered on this occasion.
The precautions taken appeared to be adequate, but on the outcome it appears they were not adequate. The whole FCA party was not armed. There were two Gustav machine-guns fully loaded and in all the circumstances and, indeed, in circumstances of emergency, this should be adequate to protect the party.
What happened?
This is what the inquiry is about—to find out what happened. I have received a preliminary report——
Will the Minister make a statement to the House as soon as he has the information?
The Minister will give all the information to the House within the limits of security.
Will the Minister agree that on the basis of this explanation, we can have little confidence in the security arrangements throughout the State? If soldiers of this State can be disarmed at gunpoint and if the precautions taken appear to be inadequate, will he agree that we can have little confidence in these security arrangements, and that, in fact, unarmed policemen throughout the State can have little confidence in regard to their future security? We are entitled to ask the Minister whether he agrees that we can have little confidence in security arrangements throughout the State in regard to military installations if this kind of thing can happen. His reply gives little comfort in this regard.
I do not agree that the precautions taken are inadequate. As matters turned out, they did not prove to be adequate on this occasion, but the matter is being fully investigated and it is very unfair to press for any further comment at this point because I do not want to prejudice the findings of the inquiry.
Deputy Clinton has made a very valuable suggestion because there is universal concern about this incident and will the Minister take steps to inform the House what the exact security position is throughout the State?
I will inform the House within the limits of security.
Facilities can be made available to the Minister to inform the House.
May I ask the Minister if any changed instructions have now been given to members of the Defence Forces as to what action they are to take on encountering armed civilians? The Minister told me a number of days ago that in such an event they have to be guided by whatever instructions they get from the civilian authorities. That is obviously inadequate. Have any direct instructions been given to the Defence Forces to act on their own initiative?
The decision will rest with the commander on the spot in all cases and will depend on the particular circumstances. There cannot be any standard instructions issued or directions given.
Would the Minister say if there was an exchange of fire between those taking the arms and the members of the FCA?
That relates to the inquiry and I would not be prepared to comment on it.