asked the Taoiseach whether in his opinion the present Constitution should be amended; and if he will indicate the consultative basis on which amendments will be decided.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Constitutional Amendments.
7.
There is a Bill to amend the Constitution before the Dáil at present. So far as other possible amendments are concerned, I would refer the Deputy to my reply to Questions Nos. 1 and 2 of last Thursday, the 2nd December, in which I stated that I would be prepared to consider the setting up of an all-party committee on the Constitution on the understanding that there would be commitment to the conclusions of such a committee; and in connection with which I envisaged that the committee could undertake preparatory work which would set a basis for negotiating a Constitution suitable for a united Ireland as part of an overall negotiation to achieve a united Ireland.
Having regard to the fact that we have a Constitution Amendment Bill before us today, even at this late stage would the Taoiseach not consider scrapping the present Constitution entirely and having a new Constitution? The Taoiseach must remember that over the weekend at least one of his Ministers, I think it was the Minister for Lands, suggested that we should have an entirely new Constitution. A tremendous amount of good could be done by having a new Constitution. There would be much more advantage in having a Constitution—this is only my personal opinion —that would be agreed by the political parties in this country, or should I say the elected representatives?
I do not believe at all that the Constitution should be scrapped. The Deputy's colleague, Deputy Keating, said here the other day in moving the amendment to the Bill now before the House that there was much in our Constitution which was worth preserving and I agree with him there, but I do agree also that there are certain provisions of the Constitution that we need to look at especially having regard to the passage of time. I agree also that the wider the agreement we get to the amendment of that Constitution the better it will be. I do not agree that now is the time because I want, as I indicated before, to get this single question of acceding to the EEC before the people without any confusion.
The Taoiseach will appreciate that arising out of his own Bill, and I agree with my colleague that there are some good parts in the Constitution which I am sure we would retain in a new Constitution, that it will be stripped quite a lot, or amended in a pretty drastic fashion as a result of EEC membership, if the people so decide. There are other desirable constitutional amendments to which the Taoiseach has referred over the last two or three years that could be embodied in a new Constitution. The cleanest job would be to scrap it, with all due respect to those people who framed it, and to have a Constitution which will suit the aspirations of people in the whole 32 Countries.
I will go this far with the Deputy: I agree that we ought to look at it in its entirety and I am sure having looked at it we will not agree to scrap it in its entirety but rather will we retain the bulk of it. I have referred to what I suggested last week in my reply, that I would favour an all-party committee here to look at it again but with the difference on this occasion that the all-party committee would have a commitment to their findings or to their recommendations rather than, as in the case of the last committee, that nobody had any responsibility, either collectively or individually for recommendations.
Would the Taoiseach adopt Article 8 of the first Constitution now and it will save him all the trouble?
The Taoiseach and many of his Ministers, outside the House, have made many speeches declaring their willingness to accommodate disagreement with certain sections of the Constitution which they feel was being expressed both from the minority and the majority sides in Northern Ireland. Would the Taoiseach say whether, in fact, this accommodation to change the Constitution has to do with the Constitution we have at present or simply with a Constitution for a future united Ireland? I am a little bit confused about the message coming from the recent speeches of the Taoiseach as to which Constitution he is talking about changing.
If the Deputy reads my reply today he will see that what I envisage is a Constitution suitable to a united Ireland, a 32-county Ireland, and I said already, I think in this House last week, that it would be better, if we are going to have any amendment of the Constitution to do it in that context rather than amending it now and having it amended later on in the context of a 32-county Republic.
There is an urgency now, or so we are told, about changes in the Constitution because of the imminence of a decision on our membership of the EEC. Might I respectfully suggest that the situation in this country, and particularly in the Six Counties, is also of importance and, if we are to put a date on membership of the EEC or a date for a referendum on a Constitution that will be in accordance with the Treaty of Rome, surely we should be able to put some sort of date on amendments, as the Taoiseach said himself, although I would prefer a new Constitution, of our present Constitution in order to do as Deputy O'Leary has suggested in regard to the southern part and the northern part of the country?
I made the suggestion last week to the parties opposite about this committee. I think it is necessary to set up a committee first to see what we can do. I am not suggesting that the Deputy has been dilatory but I have not yet got a response from him or from the Leader of the Fine Gael Party.
I did not receive any reply from you. We will not talk about who is being dilatory.
The Deputy published his letter in the newspaper before I saw it. If he wants to proceed in that way, he can.
You have been talking about it for the past five years.
I got the communication from the Taoiseach only this morning.
I know. I said I was not alleging that the Deputy was being dilatory.
Deputy M. O'Leary rose.
We have had eight supplementaries.
This is only my second supplementary. The Taoiseach's speeches have been quite clear on the necessity to change certain features of our present Constitution. Might I ask him whether, on the way to achieving a united Ireland, he would agree that it is important that changes take place now in the Constitution of the area under our jurisdiction which would anticipate the Constitution of a united Ireland? There is nothing barring us doing these things and we do not have to postpone these decisions until the achievement of a united Ireland and they would be a valuable contribution.
This is enlarging the scope of the question.
That is a suggestion the Deputy is making. Other people are entitled to have different views.
The Taoiseach does not share that view?
I am not suggesting that I do not.
What view does the Taoiseach share?
I said here before that as we make progress we ought to see progress being made from the other side.