asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs whether Britain is a party to the European agreement relating to persons participating in proceedings of the European Commission and Court of Human Rights; if so, if he will draw the attention of the Commission to the failure to respect in Northern Ireland the provisions of that agreement governing the right of detained persons to correspond with and consult their lawyers beyond the scrutiny and hearing of their jailers; and if he will particularly draw attention to the practice of jailers examining the files and records of lawyers visiting internees and detainees.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Detained Persons Rights.
11.
Britain is a party to the European agreement relating to persons participating in proceedings of the European Commission and Court of Human Rights. The provisions of Article 3 of the Agreement, concerning the rights of detained persons appear to apply only in cases of individual applications to the Commission and Court.
Is it the Minister's contention that it is permissible to continue the practice whereby the files and papers of lawyers visiting internees and detainees may be examined, as they are being examined, by the jailers in the concentration camps in the North of Ireland? Are the Government not going to make any protest to the European Commission about this abominable practice?
I was interpreting the meaning of the Convention and that does not mean that I regard it as permissible. The provisions of Article 3 relate to people who will be giving evidence before the court, and it is in terms of the evidence they will be giving to that court, that the special protection inquired into by the Deputy would stand. Our case to the Commission on Human Rights is a case brought by a State against another State, and not by individuals. If individuals were called as witnesses, or if they brought the case themselves, this Convention would be used to protect them in the way the Deputy wants.
If the Government's complaint is processed through the Commission and if there is an actual hearing, would the Minister not agree that various persons named in the submission will be called as witnesses and will the Minister not make a protest that these people, in the course of their consultations with their lawyers at the moment, are subjected to interference by the very people against whom the complaint is being made? Surely now is the time to make the complaint so as to ensure that abuses do not occur in the process of the collection of evidence which is going on all the time?
I am advised that the provisions of Article 3 do not apply to any of the people mentioned, detainees or internees, in our application. They would apply if the court decided to ask these people to take part in the proceedings. The Article the Deputy mentions would not be applicable in the way he says.
If the Minister will not make a complaint I will make one again. The Government will do nothing until they are shown from the Fine Gael benches what they should do.
It is a great help to have you there. You have been there for a long time now.