There are a few matters I should like the Minister to clarify. He said that the posts will be filled on the basis of open competition, following advertisements in the public Press. I should like to know what kind of competition is envisaged by the Minister: is it an interview, an oral or a written examination? Will a certain standard of education be required? The Minister's statement on this point was so vague it was difficult to draw any definite conclusion from it.
Have the County Managers' Association been consulted about the new job they will get? I have a feeling this is a hot potato the county managers do not want. I am sure their association meet from time to time but we do not know what is their attitude to this proposal. No matter what any Member here may say, the Department of Local Government can put subtle pressure on county managers. This can be done in different ways.
I was chairman of Kerry County Council in 1967-68 and as such I had certain rights not granted to other councillors. As chairman I was able to inspect files and read the correspondence from Government Departments and in this way I could find out what was going on behind the scenes. On one file I was amazed to read a nice letter from the then Minister for Local Government, Mr. Kevin Boland, inquiring about a certain case and asking the manager to make a decision on the matter as early as possible. That was subtle pressure put on a county manager and it was done by a Minister of State.
Let us examine the procedure of appointment of rate collectors under the new system and see how the machinery will work. I presume an advertisement will be put in the newspapers. Immediately applicants will rush to the secretary's office to seek application forms; next, the applicants will go to their local councillors and ask them to do what they can to help in their applications. Human nature being what it is, the councillor in question will say he will do his best for everyone. As the appointment will refer to a certain locality, it is obvious that the successful applicant will have to be from the locality and will have to have local knowledge. The day of the competition arrives and all are under starter's orders. However, before this date arrives the vast majority of the applicants will have asked the political parties to make representations for them. This is why I was interested to know what kind of competition for the applicants is envisaged. Is it an oral competition, is it a written competition or what kind of competition is it?
I presume the type of competition the Minister has in mind is an oral one. That being so, the manager will set up an interview board on which will be staff officers, assistant engineers and others, all from other counties. That is the usual procedure. The applicants will come before that board and a decision will be arrived at. For argument sake, let us say a Mr. Molloy is appointed as rate collector. Let us say his appointment was on merit. What will happen when it is announced that such a person got the job? What interpretation will be put on it? The first question to be asked will be to which political party the successful applicant belongs. He could belong to any of the three parties but, for argument sake again, we shall say he is a Fine Gael man. Immediately—let the Minister have no doubt about this—all the councillors from other parties on that council will say that the man got the job through his political connections.
In that situation the finger of suspicion will be pointed at the manager, no matter who has been appointed. This in itself will cause friction in the council chamber. The Minister went so far in his brief as to say he wanted to take away from councillors the embarrassing situation they have been finding themselves in. I put it to him that managers will now find themselves in the same position and I should like forcefully to say that it is not fair to the managers to be put in that position.
Therefore, since the Minister took the trouble to introduce this Bill he should have gone the whole hog and either given the job to the LAC or adopted the system that has been working very successfully in some counties for some time. I am sure the Minister can find out easily how many counties successfully have been collecting the rates through their own offices. The percentage collection has been very high.
It is unfortunate that during the debate some Members, not from my party, took the opportunity to castigate councillors up and down the country, no matter to which party they belonged. I am quite sure that a great many Members of the House were at one time and still are members of local authorities. I am afraid it has become fashionable of late for certain people to knock public representatives, members of health boards, of harbour authorities and of urban and county councils, no matter what their politics have been. I should hate to have it go out from this House that we are wont to belittle such public representatives in this chamber. In my 12 years' experience as a local authority member I can say that 99.99 per cent of councillors have been men of integrity.
Getting back to the Bill, if the Minister is not coming across favourably to local authorities he has only himself to blame. A large proportion of the conflict now emerging between county councillors on the one hand and the Custom House and the Minister on the other could be and should be avoided. Up and down the country we have councils asking the Minister to receive deputations on different projects and it is unfortunate that the Minister, whether because of advice from civil servants or otherwise, has adopted a closed door attitude—he will not meet them. I take this opportunity to ask him to have another look——