The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs must feel that he is reaching the end of the debate on his Estimate, which was the subject of very severe criticism. Ministers are usually of the calibre who accept criticism. I would like to raise a few matters in relation to the administration of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. At the outset I want to place on record the kindness and the courtesy the officers of this Department have at all times extended to me as a Deputy for many years. I should like to pay a very special tribute to what I see as a very high standard of efficiency in the office of the Secretary of the Minister's Department. That office is undoubtedly noted for promptness and courtesy. On an occasion such as this Members of the House are given an opportunity of thanking those who are carrying the burden of important Post Office work. It is a most essential part of the whole set-up of the State. I wonder whether the Minister is having a serious look at the situation and taking into consideration the fact that we have passed the Victorian age and that it is time the whole Post Office structure got a new look. I want to assure the Minister that his Department is still living in the Victorian age. We have seen advances in recent years with the advent of television, with the increase in air travel, with everybody seeking a greater degree of efficiency but, generally speaking, the Department of Posts and Telegraphs is lagging behind. Perhaps that is through no fault of the top men in the Department but because of a lack of progressive policy on the part of the Government. The Department of Posts and Telegraphs will be a very important part of our economic machine in the EEC and because of this I would strongly urge the Minister to examine his conscience and take a calm look at the workings of the various branches of his Department. I have yet, when speaking to the general public, to hear anyone speak highly of or pay a tribute to the efficiency of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.
The Minister is charged with responsibility for his Department. Would he not pause for a moment and consider his own office surroundings? He works in a building which is almost two centuries old. He has working under him 19,000 or 20,000 people. He controls over 3,000 major and minor office outlets. The Minister can be described as the biggest employer in the State. I put it to him that he has not taken the least practical step towards either improving his own surroundings, getting out of a building which is two centuries old, or improving the lot of the 20,000 people who work for him or improving the 3,000 major and minor offices associated with his Department.
The Post Office is a huge organisation. I want to know in what way it will be helpful to us in the EEC in its present form? If all Departments are tuning up and getting into top gear to meet the competition that lies ahead, what is the picture in relation to this Department? All other Departments have the appearance of preparing for such an event. This Department shows no evidence whatever of preparing for it. It can be compared to Lester Piggot being put on an elephant for the Irish Sweeps Derby. It is not possible to get efficiency or speed or a good financial return from the Department of Posts and Telegraphs unless it is geared for such and I put it to the Minister that it is not so geared. He has done nothing about gearing it. Our postal services, compared with those of European countries, lag behind. I do not want to be always quoting the United States or Canada but there is no comparison between post office standards outside this country and those we have here. I do not know the reason for that but one of the reasons, I think, is the fact that the head of Government in this country has never viewed the Department of Posts and Telegraphs as a very important Department and usually puts a Minister in charge for the purpose of equipping him with administrative experience for some other Department at a later stage. It is a great pity that heads of Government do not view with a greater degree of seriousness the importance of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.
The Minister is in Victorian surroundings. I urge him to get out of them, to put proposals before the Government for the complete re-organisation of the Department. I have always believed that we should either have a Department of State or scrap it completely. This Department needs either to be scrapped completely or taken out of the Victorian age. I do not know of any other Department which is more bound up in red tape and blue ribbons in the form of regulations and orders than the Department of Posts and Telegraphs.
Does the Minister hear all the complaints about his Department? I doubt it; I am sure he does not listen; listeners seldom hear anything good of themselves. But a very great volume of complaints must be registered in his Department. He has given us reams of statistics and figures but no record of the number of complaints by citizens in regard to the services for which he is responsible. A long-established export firm with headquarters in this city discovered that their telephones had been disconnected. The managing director was notified that he had not paid the bill and that the account was due. As one might expect, he was very angry and told the Post Office that he could produce proof that the bill was paid. The bill in fact was paid. Steps were then taken to reconnect the telephones. One would imagine an apology would be sent to the managing director of this firm.
This is only one case but, to my knowledge, there have been quite a number of similar cases including one from my own constituency in regard to which I was in touch with the Minister's Department in the past few days. This was a case of an unwarranted and unreasonable cutting off because of an alleged debt being due, but when inquiries were made the account had long previously been paid. When the Department discover a mistake of this kind, which can completely dislocate business, one would think steps would be taken to see that it did not happen again. The same would apply in the case of an individual who might be very seriously inconvenienced by being cut off. One can readily understand one or two mistakes of this kind being made when such an enormous volume of business is involved but there is no justification for failing to record the payment of telephone accounts so as to ensure that no telephone will be disconnected without proper cause.
The Minister must be aware that the secretary of the Irish Exporters' Association has stated that the position is serious in regard to the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, that contracts could be lost by late postal deliveries, that in the export business —especially in the shipping sector— it is essential to know that postal schedules are completely reliable. If they are not, contracts can be, and have been lost. I hope steps will be taken to keep under constant review the state of efficiency of the postal services.
The Minister must also be aware of representations and comments made to his Department by the Confederation of Irish Industry who were also unhappy about the service. We are told that a letter posted on a Monday was not delivered until Friday, although posted in the Dublin central area for an address in the same area. This sort of thing happens also in the case of provincial post and the situation there is becoming worse. I have a parliamentary question to the Minister in regard to the postal service in my own town where the post does not now reach the local sub office until half an hour later than was the case three months ago while the outgoing post leaves three-quarters of an hour earlier than three months ago. We have later delivery and we must post earlier. I cannot see how the Minister can say that is an improved service; to my mind, it is worse. It is most unsatisfactory if we cannot get the earlier delivery and must rush to post three-quarters of an hour earlier in order to catch the Portlaoise connection for Dublin. I ask the Minister to examine the postal services in the midlands because, from my experience, they are far from what we expect.
The Minister is also aware of complaints made by a solicitor who posted important documents to his client in the expectation that these documents would arrive on the following morning. These documents were not delivered and this meant that his office had to retype all the documents and have them delivered by hand to a client some miles away. This causes considerable inconvenience to the professional community on which the public depend so much for efficiency. In this case the non-delivery of these documents caused serious inconvenience to the solicitor and his client and general upheaval in the solicitor's office. There have been numerous instances of this kind and complaints of this nature should be examined.
I want to direct the Minister's attention to the fact that some of the pillar boxes are far too small, particularly those in built up areas. In some cases it is much easier to take letters out than it is to put them in. These old pillar boxes are completely out of date. There is one which I usually use if I am travelling to Portlaoise in the evening, that situated on the Green Road, Portlaoise, but I can scarcely get the letters into it. That is convenient for me because it enables me to catch the Portlaoise post, but if I cannot get the letters into the pillar box I must drive into the post office in the town. Would the Minister consider providing pillar boxes sufficiently large to contain the ever-increasing volume of post being put into them? I am referring to the old pillar boxes that were built into walls, not the large, barrel-shape pillar boxes provided in the cities.
I am sure the Minister's attention has been directed to the fact that very often letters, particularly by air mail, from far off places like Zambia and Tanzania, from which I got a letter the other day, can be delivered here in four days. A letter posted in Mountmellick takes two days to come to Leinster House, as I experienced last week; it takes two days to deliver a letter from Leinster House to Rahan, in County Offaly. To post a letter from Mountmellick to Rahan, on our present system, takes four days, the same length of time as it takes for an air mail letter to come from Tanzania. There is something very wrong with a postal system about which that can be said.
There is no reason why a letter posted in Dublin cannot be delivered to any part of the country the following day. Most of the midland towns are only 50 or 60 miles from Dublin and there is no reason why letters cannot be delivered in Dublin on the following day. If there has been a reorganisation, I do not know what the Minister's Department has been doing about that.
In Britain certain steps have been taken to reorganise the mail. Over there delivery of the mail has been taken out of the stage coach era. When it takes four days for a letter to get from Rahan to Mountmellick or from Mountmellick to Ballybrit, we are certainly in the stage coach era. The re-organisation of the postal service in Britain was brought about by pressure being put on the Government by businessmen whose patience became entirely exhausted with what they considered to be the unsatisfactory postal service. In Britain there is separate management responsibility for letter and parcel post services. A marketing department was set up to promote the use of modern business management and techniques. What have we done here to improve the speed and efficiency of our mail? Have any special steps been taken to introduce modern business management and techniques? If most of us who are engaged in any kind of business activity were to run our own businesses with the same degree of sloth and inactivity as the Department of Posts and Telegraphs we would all be out of business long ago.
On the Estimate this time 12 months the Minister stated that he was not aware of a deterioration in the postal service. I can assure the Minister candidly and genuinely, as a Member of this House and as a colleague who would not be inclined to embarrass him all the time, that the postal service is deteriorating. It is his job and that of the top men in his Department to find out what is wrong with the service and to put it right, bearing in mind that our postal rates must rank with some of the highest in western Europe. Our postal rates have increased vastly in recent times, and, therefore, people are reasonable in expecting a higher standard of efficiency. There was a time, in the memory of most of us, when a sealed letter could be posted for two old pence; now a sealed letter is four new pence, and there was greater speed and efficiency in the delivery of the letter at two old pence than there is at present. Granted there is a huge increase in the volume of mail, but that is no justification for not having proper organisation and proper business methods in the Department. Taxpayers are not getting value for the high postage charges. It is time a hard look was taken at this matter. The postal service is not good and it is time the Department had a very hard look at it. There has been a drastic reduction in the number of temporary postmen throughout the country and this may have added to the inefficiency. These men have been replaced by men with small vans who are doing the best job they possibly can but no matter how it is done, one man cannot do the work of three or four men. Re-organisation of the postal service in many areas is causing considerable hardship and inconvenience to the public. The service was even better when we had the larger number employed and to cut down on the numbers giving the public service can be and surely is penny wise and pound foolish.
I want to direct the Minister's attention to the telephone service, or should I describe it as non-telephone service because if there is any medium that can be regarded as a barometer of rising temperatures, it is the present telephone service. It is about time we reviewed the situation and if the Department cannot give a highly efficient service, the Government should seriously consider handing over to private enterprise the administration of telephones because the existing service is driving people to the very edge of nervous breakdowns. I do not intend to quote for the Minister the volume of complaints being made about the service but if it is to continue in the Common Market, I do not know what the position will be. I notice that the chairman of a British-based company which recently moved into this country has said that he was appalled at the long delay in having telephones connected, the poor service on the existing lines his company had and the pre-conditions laid down before telex machines can be installed.
We invite into this country businessmen from other parts of the world to set up industry and to start factories here and, this being so, we must bear in mind that these successful businessmen have been accustomed to an efficient telephone service in their own countries. One thing they have in the United States is a highly efficient telephone service and it creates a very bad impression on industrialists and other businessmen coming to this country to participate in the commercial, economic and business life of our community when they have serious complaints to make in regard to the service. The businessman to whom I have referred has said that in all his experiences in Britain and in Europe, he had never come across a more frustrating time in this respect. The company which specialises in credit management services and credit control consultancies employs six male and four female staff, all of them Irish.
I think it extraordinary that we should have given reason to complain to any group of business people coming over here and expecting a reasonable standard of efficiency.
I direct the Minister's attention to a number of complaints in my constituency in this regard. I am grateful to him for succeeding in rectifying some of them but not all of them have been satisfactorily dealt with. In the case of factories and businesses, we should give them the service they expect, a service for which they are paying the highest rates in western Europe. I assure the Minister that our telephone service is very far from being perfect. The rental charges for residents' lines are £20 a year, for business lines £22, for auxiliary lines £18 and extra rental at the rate of £1.60 per annum per furlong is charged for distance in excess of three miles from an exchange. The telephone charges in this country are most unsatisfactory, having regard to the efficiency or lack of efficiency experienced by all subscribers.
The Minister has a three or a five year plan for telephone kiosks and I regard it as most unsatisfactory. If there are demands for the provision of kiosks in parts of the country, they should be met as far as possible. I have been pressing the Department for a long time in connection with the provision of a kiosk in an area called Rath in my constituency. It is an area which is generally recognised as an agricultural district, several miles from any convenient town. There is one shopkeeper there, a general merchant, who has his telephone at Rath crossroads and there is a long queue of people every morning, either waiting for calls or waiting to make calls, with the result that he cannot carry on his business efficiently because he cannot make his own telephone calls with the number of neighbours and customers waiting to make use of his telephone. This is one case in which the demand exists and in which steps should be taken to provide a kiosk.
This well-known businessman has made repeated representations. The local guild of Muintir na Tíre have made representations and I am sure that all the public representatives have joined in, but nevertheless no telephone kiosk has been provided. The general merchant concerned is prepared to give a free site on which to construct the kiosk for the convenience of his neighbours, to enable them to ring "vets" and the local office of the Committee of Agriculture when advisory staff are urgently required. There are numerous uses which country people now make of the telephone.
Another area which has been deprived of kiosk facilities is Rahan near Tullamore. I was impressed by the plea made by local people to the Minister. I raised the matter in the Dáil on 2nd November, 1971. I asked the Minister then to take steps to provide a telephone service as soon as possible. The Minister replied that the provision of a kiosk at Rahan was not warranted at that time, but that a kiosk would probably be provided under the five-year programme for extension of kiosk facilities in rural areas. That is not sufficient in an area where there is demand for it and where there is sufficient business to warrant the provision of a kiosk. The services should be provided at Rath and Rahan without delay.
I have been in touch with the Minister about the telephone service in west and south Offaly. A constituent asked me to raise the matter in the House. He said in a letter that all the lines were out of order and that it was impossible to get through because the lines were never clear. He also complained that the telephone was indistinct. There is no evidence that the Department are trying to improve the service.
I wish to raise the subject of telephone tapping. It is well-known that telephones are tapped in various parts of the country. If the Minister stands up in the House and gives an undertaking that certain telephones are not being tapped or conversations recorded, one expects the position to be so. I want the Minister to explain whether there is a standing regulation about tapping if the police wish to obtain certain information via telephone and they have not the ways and means of getting that information. Are there not certain handpicked people who are employed in a temporary capacity at certain telephone exchanges, whose duty it is to note calls going through those exchanges? This is well known. Temporary personnel are recruited. Some of them already hold Government positions. Their job is to record, if possible, telephone conversations on certain lines whose members are listed before them. Attention has been directed to this and to the fact that confidential telephone conversations are repeated.