Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 May 1973

Vol. 265 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Vote 45: Foreign Affairs.

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £2,484,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1974, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Foreign Affairs and of certain services administered by that Office, including certain grants-in-aid.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take the Estimates for Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation together.

Since the foundation of the State Ireland's foreign policy has had three broad concerns—to gain and develop international acceptance of the distinctive national identity of the State; to protect and promote abroad its interests and those of its nationals; and to contribute to the evolution of a peaceful and just world community for the benefit of all mankind. With these concerns in mind foreign policy was pursued under general guidelines which varied the emphasis on specific aspects of policy according to changing circumstances at home and abroad.

The main thrust of foreign policy in the early days of the State was to establish and assert independence within the international community. Circumstances in the Second World War dictated that the survival and integrity of the State be paramount considerations in foreign policy and neutrality in that conflict was an expression of these concerns. In the post-war years when international co-operation in political, economic and social spheres, rapid growth in travel and communication, and the expansion of world trade were dominant factors in relations between states, Irish foreign policy became less single-minded, seeking simultaneously several less clear-cut objectives—the consolidation of the independent position of the State, and the creation of conditions in which Irish interests would be afforded adequate protection and be enabled to prosper. It also sought to contribute to the preservation of world peace both by participating in peace-keeping activities of the United Nations and also by such initiatives as the resolution in favour of non-proliferation of nuclear weapons.

In recent years the international community has moved rapidly towards greater interdependence expressed particularly in the economic sphere. For Ireland the present juncture has been reached with the coincidence of two major and decisive factors which affect the nation as a whole and change the emphasis which must be placed on the main aspects of foreign policy for the future. These are, the evolving situation in Northern Ireland which profoundly alters Ireland's relations with the United Kingdom and influences many other aspects of foreign policy; and the accession to membership of the European Communities from the beginning of this year, which has a major impact on relations with the other eight member states and influences in varying degrees relations with all other states. It is essential, therefore, to reexamine at this time existing general guidelines and to formulate new ones for future foreign policy, to clarify foreign policy objectives and to determine priorities for their attainment.

I, therefore, convened a Conference of Heads of Mission and other senior officials of this Department from 16th to 19th April, 1973, to advise and assist me in this task. Since then I have discussed the main conclusions I have reached with the Government and I now submit to the Dáil the general lines of policy which I propose to follow in the period ahead.

The basic objectives of Irish foreign policy, in the view of the Government, are:

(A) to help maintain world peace and reduce tensions between the super-powers, between blocs, and between states;

(B) to resolve, even on a provisional but open-ended basis, the Northern Ireland problem and to pursue relations with the United Kingdom Government to achieve this purpose;

(C) to contribute to the development of the European Communities along lines compatible with Irish aspirations and to the creation within the Community of a stable democratic and healthy society;

(D) to secure Ireland's economic interests abroad, thus facilitating economic and social progress at home, and particularly to secure our interests in the economic, social and regional policies of the EEC;

(E) to contribute to the Third World in a manner and to an extent that will meet our obligations, satisfy the desire of Irish people to play a constructive role in this sphere, and add to our moral authority in seeking to influence constructively the policies of other developed countries towards the Third World.

First, I will deal with the maintenance of world peace. The basis of all moves to security and economic progress for Ireland as for the whole world is the maintenance of peace and the reduction of suspicion and tension between all states. Failure in this sphere entails failure in all others; there may be no other problems to resolve if world peace is not maintained and nuclear war breaks out.

The role which Ireland can play in this because of its size and resources is necessarily a limited one; nonetheless it can be imaginative and constructive—all the more so as we are not involved in any military alliance and have a voice in important international organisations where our role has been recognised in the past and where we have made useful contributions. These contributions have received all the more recognition because their disinterestedness has been patent.

It is, therefore, proposed that our policy should be to do all in our power to create an atmosphere of understanding and compromise in those international bodies in which Ireland participates. These at the moment are most obviously the Council of Ministers of the European Community, the quarterly meeting on European Political Co-operation of the nine Foreign Ministers, the projected Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe, and the United Nations.

There does exist a climate of détente throughout the world. The major powers seem to be moving, however slowly, towards a measure of accommodation with each other, having finally computed the cost of the Cold War and even of the limited conflicts that have existed since the end of World War II. This development has, perhaps, been stimulated by the growth of tension between the Soviet Union and China which, on the one hand, has encouraged the Soviet Union to seek for improvement in its relationship with the United States, and which, on the other hand, has brought china to seek a closer relationship with Western Europe.

At the same time, it must be recognised that the new balance thus created is not yet a stable one—the world has yet to learn to cope with the more complex interactions between powers and blocs in this new situation. The emergence of China from a long period of isolation, the growing economic power of Japan, as well as the increasing economic power of the European Community itself, are capable of creating fresh strains, unless this new situation is carefully handled—all the more so because some Europeans may be tempted to envisage a role for western Europe as a world military superpower—while others see it playing a less dramatic part in future world relationships.

A product of this re-alignment has been the anxiety of the United States to review its relationship with western Europe, and in particular with the European Community—a desire stimulated by economic as well as political factors. There are signs that in the forthcoming negotiations between the European Community and the United States an attempt may be made by the latter country to draw into the discussion of the economic relationships between these two areas, the question of the defence role of its European allies. The Irish attitude on this question of defence has been one of not wishing to become involved in any pre-existing defence organisation such as NATO or WEU. It seems likely that NATO will remain in existence for the foreseeable future and it would not be profitable to speculate on the emergence of any other form of defence organisation at this time. The Government propose to continue this policy but as occasion arises to make more explicit the distinction that in their view exists between the possible independent European defence body in the more distant future, and the existing alliances that exist between some EEC members and extra-European countries, or non-Community European states some of which are not fully democratic.

The Government believe that Ireland, because of its freedom from defence commitments, is well-fitted to play an active, if necessarily minor, role in bringing about an atmosphere of further détente in the European context. We can, for example, encourage our partners in the Nine in any initiatives that will lessen tension in defence and military matters and we can also discourage ambitions for the emergence of a European military super-power. In pursuing such a policy we must, however, have regard to the importance that many of our partners in the European Community for the present attach to the United States defence link, given that an acceptable and exclusively European defence system is unlikely to emerge for some considerable time to come. We must also recognise the un-wisdom of pressing on our partners initiatives which they, with their very great experience in these matters, may regard as excessive or dangerous for their security. Nevertheless, our position enables us to pursue a policy of openness to non-members of the Community, whether they be the neutral States of Europe, the US or the Third World, or, indeed, the countries of Eastern Europe.

Such a policy can, however, be limited by the range of our existing diplomatic representation which as of now is confined basically to western Europe and North America, with a few significant exceptions. The actual pursuit of a constructive détente policy requires a greater range of contacts with countries from which we are now cut off by the absence of diplomatic representation.

Nevertheless, within the limits currently imposed on us by lack of resources, this Government will seek within the Nine to encourage moves towards improvements in East-West relations, and balanced troop reductions on both sides in central Europe. Greater progress could, we believe, be made in this sphere.

Two separate issues arise for us in relation to eastern Europe. First, the question of our relationship with the Soviet Union, as one of the two world super-powers with whom Ireland, almost alone amongst the countries of the world, has no diplomatic contact. Secondly, our relationship with the countries of eastern Europe which in various ways, and within limits imposed both by the power of the Soviet Union and the ideological rigidity of their systems of government, are seeking to express their own personalities. Our indirect relations with these countries through diplomatic contacts in other capitals are uniformly friendly. The fact that Poland abstained on our application for UN membership, when the Soviet Union took a different view, is worth recalling. Rumania in particular is seeking to establish a greater degree of independence in foreign policy. Yugoslavia as a non-aligned country is also of interest to us.

Moreover, significant trade possibilities exist in a number of these countries, which we have not yet been able to exploit fully. Irish exporters and CTT have found it very difficult to make progress in these markets because of the absence of diplomatic relations with any of them. Both for these reasons, and because of the political importance of preparing for a détente in East-West relations and easing the path for eastern Europe countries, closer contact with a number of them seems desirable. These are matters to which the Government will be turning their attention in the near future.

With respect to the United States of America, there is no immediate prospect of a situation arising in which western Europe would be prepared to, or indeed could with security and assurance, dispense with the US troops now stationed in Europe whose involvement is seen by many western European countries as essential to make the US nuclear deterrent effective in defence of western Europe. Moreover, it must be recognised that, if this relationship ended, the whole of western Europe would face the need for a radical re-appraisal of defence policies, including pressure for a European nuclear deterrent, and an expansion of conventional forces, the inadequacy of which could encourage, and perhaps make inevitable, resort to nuclear weapons for defence against attack.

Such a re-appraisal could pose complications for this country, both in terms of pressure for involvement in any European defence arrangement involving the withdrawal of US troops from Europe and pressure for a multiplication of expenditure on defence, to bring us up to the new and much higher level of European defence expenditure in relation to national output which would then be needed. However, it does not seem likely that we shall be faced with this situation in the foreseeable future.

Our economic situation vis-á-vis the United States is that we need US investment on a large scale in the years ahead. This is at present threatened not only by the proposals contained in the Burke-Hartke Bill but also by the proposals relating to trade and to taxation of US investment abroad recently announced by the US Administration. It is not anticipated that the Burke-Hartke proposals will be adopted by Congress in their present form. The threat to our economic interests is also lessened to some degree by the discretionary nature of the powers contained in the Administration's proposals.

At the same time, we should not rely unduly on having a special position in relation to the United States that would protect us, more than other countries, from the impact of any shift in US policy in matters of this kind. The economic relationship between ourselves and the United States will not be unduly influenced by sentiment.

We must recognise that the United States may, in the forthcoming negotiations with the enlarged EEC, seek to achieve substantial modifications of the Common Agricultural Policy, which could be to the disadvantage of this country. On this matter we shall, no doubt, find ourselves allied with a number of other members of the Community, seeking to achieve agreement between the United States and the Community which, while offering reciprocal benefits to both, will not undermine this Common Agricultural Policy.

At the same time, having thus realistically assessed our relationship with the United States, it must be noted that since an independent United States came into existence two centuries ago, Ireland has had close, friendly and constructive relations with that country, even if mostly at the level of contacts between individual citizens. A common language, certain similarities in legal and political structures, and ties of blood can, perhaps, give Ireland a useful role at certain times in US-Community relations. It is proposed to strive to improve understanding in relations between Ireland and the United States and to initiate action in the informational and cultural areas for this purpose.

In thus briefly reviewing American-Irish relations reference must be made to the recent Kissinger initiative for a new examination of the relationship between the US and Europe. This initiative is currently under examination by the Government, and will, of course, be discussed with our European partners. President Nixon's forthcoming visit to Europe will also be considered. As a member of the European Communities we must now concern ourselves more closely than at any time in the past with policy issues in many parts of the world, issues on which we are called on month by month to express a view in the Council of Ministers of the Community or at meetings of Foreign Ministers of the Nine.

In the Far East the emergence of China has changed the world situation. China's relationship with the Soviet Union has in recent times led it to a re-assessment of its attitude towards Europe. China is now pursuing a policy of rapprochement towards western Europe, and seems to have an active interest in greater European unity. Chinese policies in other parts of the world are reported to have changed in line with this new situation.

The new role of China in relation to Europe, together with its potential importance with respect to trade, will perhaps at some future date cause us to examine the question of our diplomatic relationship with that country. In the meantime, useful contacts can be pursued through our representatives in various capitals, in touch with Chinese diplomats.

The increasing wealth and influence of Japan is a new force in world affairs. Growing Japanese competitiveness may have an adverse effect on the trend towards free trade in GATT. Apart from this aspect, growing Japanese technological expertise and its economic expansion, are creating for it a preeminent position not alone in the Pacific area but also with repercussions extending to Australasia and Latin America. For these reasons Japan is now emerging as a major economic power in the world. It is already of interest to us as a market and as a possible source of new industrial projects and tourism. The opening of a mission in Tokyo reflects this interest.

As for economic relations with India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Pakistan and Singapore, the European Communities have declared their readiness to discuss with these countries the problems that might arise for them in the trade field. India and the Community have agreed to open negotiations for a Commercial Co-operation Agreement. In this context we favour meeting India's wishes as far as possible.

On the Bangladesh issue, we will support the Nine in seeking to induce the three countries immediately concerned to find a solution to their differences in a spirit of generosity and conciliation and with full respect for humanitarian considerations and, of course, their international obligations. The question of humanitarian aid to post-war Vietnam has been discussed among the Nine and the Government will consider what Ireland might usefully do in this matter.

The explosive problem posed by the Middle East is one on which we, like others, will wish to move cautiously. We support the UN resolutions, and sympathise with the plight of the refugees, while being unable to sympathise with some of the forms of protest on their behalf.

Together with the other members of the European Community we shall take any opportunity that may be open to us to assist the countries in the Middle East in finding a peaceful solution to their problems, based on acceptance by all countries concerned of Security Council Resolution No. 242.

In certain parts of the Middle East there are important possibilities for this country of expanding trade and other economic contacts. In view of the growing wealth of a number of these countries and their need for goods and services that we can provide we shall pursue contacts with them which hold promise of considerable advantage to us. We hope and expect that the friendly and constructive relationship which we would wish to establish with these countries will be reciprocated. We would wish to clarify any misunderstandings that may exist there, or elsewhere in the world, about the Northern Ireland problem and about the position of our Government as the only lawful authority in this part of Ireland.

Southern Africa, an area which contains not only the Republic of South Africa and Rhodesia but also the Portuguese colonies of Angola and Mozambique, poses a serious problem for the world and particularly for Europe since its problems tend to complicate relations between Africa and certain countries of Western Europe and North America. The European countries have major investments in these territories and considerable trade links. They also have historical and cultural links with them. In some countries of the Nine there are pressure groups which support the regimes now in power. There is also a large group of Irish descent and with Irish connections in the English-speaking countries.

Ireland is strongly opposed to the Apartheid system and seeks an end to colonialism. We are committed by the UN resolutions we have supported to achieve these ends. We are also committed to the maintenance of the blockade of Rhodesia and to independence for Namibia, formerly SouthWest Africa. This policy is in line with our historic position as a nation which has suffered from colonialism and various forms of discrimination; it is also in line with our commitment to human rights and the dignity of the individual. In addition, the continuation of injustice in this area gives rise to increased possibilities of unrest and subversion. Until a settlement of these problems is reached it is difficult for Europe to establish completely satisfactory relations with the Third World. For these reasons it is proposed not alone to carry out fully our UN obligations but also to work for a just solution to these questions in the UN and in the European forums of which we are members. It is not proposed to support guerilla activities in Southern Africa as some other countries have seemed to do.

We are particularly concerned with the question of Namibia and fully support the United Nations position in regard to the termination of the League of Nations mandate exercised in regard to this territory by South Africa.

Ireland will have the task of presiding over the EEC Council of Ministers in the first half of 1975, and hence we shall have an added interest in the African associated and associable states; the renegotiation of the Yaounde and Arusha agreements or alternative trade agreements with these countries will be concluded during this period when we will be in the position of occupying the presidency of the Council of Ministers. We are not at present well-equipped to cope with this major issue, however, due to lack of information on the position of the French African countries. Our resources do not permit us to contemplate establishing diplomatic missions in these countries at an early date but we may have to consider sending an official as a "roving Ambassador" to some of these countries during the next 18 months so as to bring us sufficiently into the picture to enable us to undertake creditably our responsibilities in the first half of 1975 when we shall be presiding at meetings of the Council of Ministers of the Community. I should add that the responsibilities involved in presiding in that position are very considerable. There are, I understand, over 200 committees in the Community for which Ireland would have to provide chairmen at official or ministerial level within that six-month period. This will pose a heavy strain on our resources.

We would be concerned about any aspects of agreements with African or other Third World countries which would have neo-colonial overtones. Some mutual preferential treatment may need to be negotiated to satisfy the requirements of GATT but we should take care to ensure that these are at the same time essentially in the interests of the developing countries concerned.

One aspect of the European relationship with the Third World which we now have to consider is the question of agreements to stabilise commodity prices. Our economic interest may suggest that we should oppose such agreements, but their value to the Third World—far greater than aid—makes it necessary for us to take this aspect into consideration also.

Ireland's position as a nation which has experienced colonialism enables us to understand the feelings of many of these countries better, perhaps, than our EEC partners. While we should not delude ourselves that this gives us a particularly important role, it does suggest that we may be able at times to help to create a more equal relationship between Europe and these countries and we should strive to do so.

Our economic relations with East and Central Africa, and the number of Irish people living there, suggest that diplomatic relations might be opened with that area in the not too distant future.

We recognise that the Continent of Latin America faces special problems in trying to secure orderly economic development, free of external exploitation, on a democratic basis. The association arrangements of the European Community with, principally, African countries pose problems for some countries in Latin America and even in our own case our economic relationship with Latin America has been modified, to the marginal disadvantage of that Continent, by the obligations imposed on us by membership. Within the Community we shall seek to mitigate any unintended ill effects of community policy on Latin America.

We shall also seek to expand our economic relationships with these countries, some of which, such as Brazil, are expanding extremely rapidly and provide potentially important markets. This may involve some extension of our diplomatic representation in that Continent, which is at present limited to an Embassy in the Argentine. We shall in the Government maintain our constructive involvement in international organisations, especially in the UN, OECD and the Council of Europe.

The scope for effective action in the UN may not be as great today as it was a decade and more ago. The UN is nonetheless still important as the only world body in which international issues threatening world peace are regularly discussed on a universal basis. Its powers of action are severely restricted where great power interests are involved but it can contribute significantly in other political issues. We propose to work to enhance its role and to consider in what way it is possible for us, having regard to our own failure so far to implement in domestic legislation certain human rights provisions, to initiate a proposal or proposals for conventions in the human rights field covering areas not yet the subject of international agreement; also whether it is possible to help to establish a "middle" group of countries, comprising the more moderate developing countries and some of the non-colonialist European or Commonwealth countries, so that opinion would not be so unfortunately polarised in the United Nations between the western powers and the Third World countries. We should also continue to support peace-keeping activities, subject to ensuring that lack of UN finance does not leave us to pay a disproportionate financial burden, and subject to availability of our forces.

The OECD continues to have importance for Ireland in key economic, social and technological policy areas —in the annual economic and development reviews, investment in education, the recent science policy confrontation, technician training and so on. As the only international body of the developed market economy countries it has particular significance in the field of development aid and other relations with developing countries. Our policy will be to maintain the level of our involvement with this organisation.

The Council of Europe is seeking a new, or revised, role. We should help it to find its place—concerned with issues too broad to be confined to the EEC, that is to say, the environment, legal reform, culture and education, human rights. The Council of Europe is a useful bridge between the Nine and most of the rest of western Europe. It also provides an additional arena, together with the European Parliament and Interparliamentary Union, for members of the Oireachtas to meet colleagues from other countries.

I turn now to the question of relations with Britain and the Northern Ireland problem. We are now in a period when our relations with the United Kingdom are undergoing considerable change. On the one hand the former bilateral relationship between Ireland and the UK has been radically changed into a part of a much more widespread multilateral relationship between Nine member countries of the Community. On the one hand this emphasises interests held in common by ourselves and the United Kingdom in relation to many aspects of Community policy, especially those involving legal matters, the professions, the relationship of the university to the State, et cetera. On the other hand, within this new and broader framework divergences of economic interest between ourselves and the United Kingdom may become more apparent and, for example, in the field of agricultural policy, our two countries will at times be pursuing notably different policies.

At the same time as our relationship with the United Kingdom is being considerably modified as a result of the enlargement of the European Economic Community to include our two countries as well as Denmark, Anglo-Irish relations are also undergoing a transformation in respect of the Northern Ireland problem. The evolution of British policy in respect of Northern Ireland since early 1972 has created a radically new situation to which we must respond. During the past year there has been a new openness in British thinking—a willingness to facilitate and indeed encourage a rapprochement between North and South in Ireland and a recognition that Britain's best interest lies in finding a solution to the long-standing “Irish Question”. British policy has found its expression in the Green Paper, and more recently in the White Paper. “Northern Ireland Constitution Proposals” of 20th March, 1973. The first action of our Government, within hours of our appointment, was to submit to the UK Government our views on the issues raised by the Green Paper— views which I had the opportunity of reinforcing personally some hours later when I had the opportunity of meeting the British Prime Minister, Mr. Edward Heath, and the Foreign Secretary, Sir Alec Douglas Home.

The Government's reaction to the White Paper was indicated in a statement issued shortly after its publication. We would have wished the White Paper to have contained more explicit references to the policy of the United Kingdom with respect to the establishment of a Council of Ireland, but we accept the genuineness of the UK Government's commitment to the establishment of such a council. Our Government recognises also that it is only on the basis of proposals such as those in the White Paper, designed to secure a reconciliation of the communities in Northern Ireland and a new and more realistic relationship between Northern Ireland and the Republic that effective progress can be made towards a solution of this whole problem.

However, as this matter was fully debated yesterday, I do not propose to say more about it at present. It remains, however, a major preoccupation of Irish policy to resolve this issue successfully on the basis of a secure reconciliation and peace with justice.

I turn now to Ireland's role in Europe and our interest in securing the evolution of a democratic, stable and healthy community. There is a need to reassess previous policies in relation to the European Communities. Firstly, it is necessary to ensure that the attitudes and tactics of the pre-accession negotiating phase when we were outside the Communities are adjusted to meet the dynamic situation of membership. Secondly, our membership has coincided with the implementation of the main Treaty policies and we must now decide on the broad lines along which we would wish the Europe of the future to evolve. Without a coherent policy we run the risk of reacting to proposals in a fragmented way to the ultimate detriment of our national and our Community interests.

The full acceptance of our Treaty obligations and of their political objectives is basic to our approach and is not in question. Our immediate concern must be to define our attitude to the question of Community supranationality and the development of the Community institutions and to relate this to the Community's progress towards economic and monetary union and the question of European union.

It is not sufficient at this stage that we should pay lip service to the ultimate evolution of the Community into a European union while at the same time committing ourselves to no specific action with a view to attaining this goal. There are, of course, those who are slow to accept any further evolution of the Community and who believe that the interests of this country are best served by simply concentrating on retaining to the maximum degree possible our national sovereignty in every sphere of Community activity. This approach depends, however, upon a number of assumptions which I believe to be dubious.

Firstly, the idea of concentrating on the retention of maximum national sovereignty, and wishing to have the right of veto in all cases, appears to assume that our interests would best be served by stopping decisions being made rather than in moving to a system that facilitates decisions and prevents their being obstructed by one other country. There do not, however, appear to be grounds for assuming that we are likely on major issues to find ourselves thus isolated and without support. On the contrary, on most of the issues likely to arise and likely to be important to us we will have allies—other members—whose interests coincide with ours and who can be expected to pursue them in alliance with us. It is, in fact, difficult to conceive of any kind of issue that would be likely to arise, of vital interest to this country, in which we would find ourselves in total isolation, and where a veto would be the only protection against the implementation of a policy clearly to our disadvantage. On the other hand, there are areas where we may legitimately fear that another country might exercise a veto on progress that would be clearly in our interest—e.g. a veto on increases in farm prices compensating for general price inflation.

Secondly, given our interest in the preservation of the common agricultural policy, upon which the economic case for Irish membership substantially rests, and given the threat to this system posed by the lack of fixed currency parities, it is arguable that our interests—more, indeed, than those of any other member state—are best served by a rapid movement towards economic and monetary union. But such a union would be surely unacceptable to us as to others, unless its policies were under adequate democratic control— a control which could be exercised only through a re-shaping of the existing institutional system involving a greater supra-national element than exists at present. Failure to introduce such strong democratic control at the Community level could leave an economic and monetary union to be run by central banks—something which no democratic country would find acceptable at home and which this group of democratic countries could not find acceptable within the Community.

Thirdly, it is also arguable that in the absence of a more supra-national system, the large member states will pursue their own interests to the disadvantage of the smaller states and of the Community as a whole. Ireland's interests may, therefore, be better served by bringing the exercise of sovereignty by these countries, if possible, under some kind of restraint, rather than by seeking to retain to the fullest degree the Luxembourg compromise concerning unanimity in decision making.

Again, as a democratic country, we cannot, surely, be content with the very indirect form of democratic control that at present exists within the Community.

The chain of responsibility from the Council of Ministers, through individual Ministers in their Governments, and through these governments to the Parliaments, and through the Parliaments to the people, is, perhaps, too indirect to be democratically effective. Under this system there would always be a temptation for individual governments to evade their own responsibilities by pleading the collective responsibility of the Council of Ministers, and it will always be difficult for the Parliaments of member countries to exercise control over the decisions of the Council of Ministers through their own ministerial representative on that Council.

We must also be concerned that there has been an in adequate response by the people of Europe to the Community and its institutions, which to the public appear increasingly remote. This is potentially dangerous. At best, many people in the Community countries are indifferent to the Community and its institutions; at worst, and especially amongst the young, there are disturbing signs of hostility, not unconnected with the remoteness of the Community institutions from democratic control.

There is also the problem under the present system that the European Commission, intended to be a completely independent body, will come under pressure from member governments who are solely responsible for the appointment of members of the Commission. In theory, these appointments are the collective responsibility of the Council of Ministers but in practice they have increasingly become, in the case of each individual member of the Commission, the prerogative of the particular member government of the country of which he is a national. There is a danger here of a politicisation of the Commission along national lines—something which Ireland as one of the smaller member states, must be concerned actively to prevent.

Moreover, at a broader level, it must be recognised that the present balance between the institutions of the Community is an imperfect one. The founders of the Community understandably introduced the democratic element gradually in the early stages of its functioning, fearing otherwise undue pressures from vested interests anxious to prevent the dynamic development of the Community during its first ten or 15 years. The Community has, however, now reached a stage where the democratic element can be given greater scope; today it seems clear that increased powers for the European Parliament will be likely to operate to speed up the development of the Community rather than to slow it down.

The conclusions to be drawn from these considerations, in so far as Irish foreign policy is concerned, seem to this Government to be the following:

1. Our long-term interests will be best served by an evolution of the European Community towards a more democratic structure, involving a greater supra-national element in the form of a strengthening of the powers of the European Parliament and, in time, possibly a movement towards the implementation of the qualified majority voting system, perhaps at sub-Council level in the first instance.

2. In the short-term, recognising both the unlikelihood of an early abandonment of the veto in favour of qualified majority voting, and the possible value to us of the veto in the years immediately ahead, we should concentrate our efforts on pressure for increased power for the European Parliament and direct elections to it.

Direct elections to the European Parliament are very desirable in their own right, as being likely to give to that Parliament a much greater authority, and, therefore, to justify transferring to it much greater power. This would also meet the practical problem posed for parliamentary representatives who are sent to the European Parliament from their own national Parliament at present and who, because of their frequent absences abroad, are liable to lose support amongst their own domestic electorate in subsequent national elections. This problem is a particularly acute one for Irish TDs and Senators who are sent to the European Parliament owing to the electoral system in this country which gives to the voter exceptional freedom—unique freedom so far as the other countries in the Community are concerned—to reject one member of a party in favour of another.

The increased powers which we should seek for the European Parliament should include at least the following:

(a) Support for the Commission's proposals for a "second reading procedure" to be introduced concurrently with the second stage of Economic and Monetary Union in 1974. This procedure would apply to proposals for major legislation having general application and would provide that if the Council departed substantially from the Commission's proposal and the opinion of the Parliament, the altered text would have to be resubmitted to the Parliament before being again laid before the council for decision.

(b) Support for the Netherlands' suggestion that when a general renewal of the Commission has to take place, the appointment of members nominated by governments should become effective only when the parliament has pronounced itself in favour or has failed to pronounce itself within a specified period.

(c) Support at the appropriate time for the idea that the parliament should be given greater control over the Community budget.

(d) Full and sympathetic consideration for the proposals which are in the course of preparation as a result of the decisions of the Paris summit on the reinforcement of institutions, having regard also to certain of the suggestions in the Vedel Report, to which Senator Mary Robinson, from this Oireachtas, made a notable contribution.

We believe that it is in our interest, moreover, to seek out other means by which the power of parliament can be increased without risking a slowing down in the evolution of the Community by introducing an excessive number of checks and balances into the system.

Other policies which we should pursue within the Community include:

1. the maintenance of the common agriculture policy and a resistance to any adjustments to it that would undermine its value to Irish farmers;

2. strong pressure for advanced regional and social policies and insistence on the maintenance of the linkage between these policies and the European Monetary Union, as set out in the summit Communiqué;

3. the further enlargement of the Community by the adherence of other democratic European countries to the Rome Treaty at an appropriate time.

In connection with these proposals the Government believe that it is important to have an effective European Community Parliamentary Committee along the lines discussed towards the end of last year between the then Government and Opposition. Such a committee should, we believe, be adequately serviced so that members of the European Parliament may be helped to play an effective part in the interests of this country and in the interests of the development of the Community.

In playing our part in the European Community the Government believe that it would be wrong for this country to confine its activities narrowly to the pursuit of selfish objectives of interest to Ireland only. The Community was not conceived in this narrow sense; it has not operated in such a narrow way; and we would do justice neither to ourselves nor to the Community were we to adopt such an approach.

On the contrary, it should be, and will be, the aim of our Government to make a constructive and positive contribution to the evolution of the Community and to seek out ways of helping its institutions to be more effective in working in the interests of the Community as a whole and not merely in the interests of this country. The way in which the European Community develops will in the decades ahead determine the way in which our society in this country develops. If we do not work constructively, and in alliance with like-minded people in the other countries of the Community, to create at Community level a healthy democratic society throughout the Community, we cannot expect that our society, evolving within a Community context, will develop along the lines we should like to see.

This means that we must enlarge our horizons and be prepared to take a lead where in the past we have been content too modestly to follow. To this end we should try to mobilise the intellectual energies of our people, to stimulate thought on how this Community can increasingly become one in which the peoples of Europe will be proud to participate and to which they will feel a genuine loyalty deriving from their recognition of the contribution the Community can make to their own individual lives.

We should, of course, have no illusions that our contribution can be more than a modest one, for we are a small country with limited resources. But, equally, we should not be too hesitant about endeavouring to contribute to its development. In the 1920s this small country made the major contribution to the evolution of the Commonwealth from a group of self-governing units of the British Empire into full sovereign states. This past achievement should inspire us in our work within the Community. This Government will be guided by this inspiration.

In so far as relations with other European States are concerned it must be remembered continually that Europe means more than the Community. There is a danger that the Community may be tempted to forget this at times, and may tend to adopt an exclusive and even at times an insufficiently sympathetic attitude to the remaining countries of the Continent. This would be a short-sighted and counter-productive attitude.

With some of these other countries we have had a close identity of views on many matters of common interest. It is proposed to maintain and improve these links where possible. In particular it is considered important that in the Community our efforts should be to ensure at all times the maximum co-operation and understanding with these other countries and to obviate causes of friction. In particular, Norway would appear to merit special consideration and we will consider what can be done to make the idea of Community membership more attractive to her since Norway's decision not to join the Community represented a great loss for the Nine collectively and individually.

I turn now to the question of Ireland's economic interests. Economic interests abroad are immediately and directly affected by EEC policies as well as being influenced by developments in the climate for trade and investment in the major markets outside the Community.

As I have already mentioned, Ireland's main economic interest in joining the European Communities was the common agricultural policy, the aim of which is to maintain farmers' incomes at a level comparable to those pertaining within the industrial sector. Having regard to the importance of agricultural exports to the Irish economy, we should be concerned to ensure the maintenance of the Communities' present pricing policy in relation to agricultural produce, particularly the maintenance of a unified market coupled with Community preference. The fact that a high price policy tends to benefit the large and more efficient producer is a factor which will need to be counteracted by appropriate regionally orientated measures such as the incentives towards hill farming recently agreed by the Councils and, perhaps, by other suitable measures in the future as well.

The interaction of proposed common Community policies for the regions in the social field and for the future development of the CAP with movements towards economic and monetary union, EMU, must be borne in mind if a co-ordinated assessment of the national interest is to be arrived at. This is of particular importance having regard to the increased competition which domestic industry will face in conditions of complete free trade at the end of the transitional period.

Agreements between the Community and third countries negotiated in accordance with the common commercial policy now govern Ireland's foreign trade outside the Nine. The implementation of the CCP and the negotiating directives given to the Commission can have consequences for Ireland's trade prospects and require continuing examination. Without being too rigid, our general interest would be to ensure that in the forthcoming GATT multilateral trade negotiations no concessions are made by the Communities, particularly in relation to agricultural produce, which would have a detrimental effect on any area of the Irish economy. While efforts to diversify exports, particularly to our new partners in the Communities, in order to reduce dependence on the British market will be continued, it seems clear that the direction of our major trading flows will remain basically unchanged in the immediate future. In this context, efforts to maintain and expand exports to the United States, Canada and Australia, to open up new markets in Eastern Europe and the Middle East and to acquire further knowledge of potential markets elsewhere, acquire particular significance.

Policy in respect of the promotion of foreign earnings has been to give the highest level of assistance to the State-sponsored bodies, such as Córas Tráchtála, the Industrial Development Authority, Bord Fáilte and Aer Lingus, in their activities abroad so that maximum benefits will accrue from the utilisation of the limited State resources available for this purpose. Let me say here that I was impressed, when we had this foreign policy conference, with the close co-operation and the warm relationship that clearly existed between the officers of my Department and those of the State bodies working effectively abroad in a common way in the interests of and to the benefit of this country. Assistance to other export interests is also given high priority. It is proposed to continue this policy in the future.

Relations between Ireland and the countries of the broad geographical area of Africa, Asia and Latin America and consisting of some 96 countries known as the Third World, are developing on the basis of traditional Irish interests in those areas, cultural links with some of them, and growing trade interests in particular cases. Politically, the countries of these regions exercise an influence on Ireland and the European Communities in two major respects—the essential resources for the developed world which they control, and the demands for assistance which, as poorer regions with, in many cases, a history of colonial and neo-colonial oppression and exploitation, they can justly make upon the developed world.

In so far as their control of resources influences regional and world peace, it is all the more important that our foreign policy be directed towards measures which promote harmony and avoid the exacerbation of differences between developing countries themselves or between developing and developed countries. Within this broad and continuing definition of policy, I shall adopt attitudes on particular issues which conform to this general line as closely as circumstances permit in each case. Control of resources is also an economic and trade issue which is in some cases of vital concern to Ireland, to the European Communities or to the developed countries as a whole, and this aspect will also be given appropriate priority in the annunciation of policy in individual cases.

The demands of the developing countries for assistance from the developed world are concerned with questions of trade and questions of aid. Policy in regard to trade is now a matter for the EEC Commission and the Council where decisions are taken by Ireland with the other eight member states. In general terms, the trade arrangements negotiated or to be negotiated by the Community with developing countries will include commodity agreements and the affording of preferential treatment in the market of the Community for other products of the Third World. Apart from exceptional cases where serious injury would be caused to major Irish economic interests, our foreign policy will support an outward-looking, progressive and non-discriminatory attitude by the Community in such trade matters.

General policy in regard to aid is still a matter for final determination, however, by individual governments although an approach to BBC coordination in this sphere is developing following the Paris Summit which invited the institutions of the Community and member states to adopt, progressively, an overall policy on development co-operation with developing countries on a world-wide scale. Such an overall policy is to include the commodity and preferential trade arrangements referred to in the preceding paragraph, increases in the volume of financial aid and improvements in the terms for aid. Those provisions will not detract from the advantages enjoyed by certain states with which the Community have special relations such as the Association Agreements with Turkey and the Yaoundé States. Ireland will be obliged to contribute to the financial provisions of these agreements in due course or to new agreements which may be negotiated to include the Arusha States or other Commonwealth countries after 1975.

Our foreign policy in this regard will remain flexible with a view to having the Community promote aid to developing countries on the most favourable and non-discriminatory terms possible while permitting developing countries the greatest margin of freedom to determine for themselves the form of agreements they wish with the Community.

Apart from aid obligations arising out of Ireland's membership of the European Communities, there is need for a real and substantial improvement in the level of Irish Government aid to developing countries. The commitment of the Government of this country to aid poorer countries in the international community has long been accepted in principle but has operated in practice on an unplanned basis at a relatively low level. I am being generous in using the word "relatively". The forward commitment by Governments in the past was to increase aid as resources permit but did not provide for an overall forward programme for implementation. This is now a quite inadequate basis on which to pursue policies in relation to the Third World either nationally or as a member of the European Communities.

For these reasons the Government propose to increase very substantially this year the sum provided for official development aid and thereafter to increase the annual level of this assistance in absolute terms and as a percentage of our GNP in a planned manner over a period of years. We propose also that, within the resources so provided, a comprehensive and coherent programme be developed which will show balanced growth in its various sectors and will be consistent with achieving the greatest benefit for developing countries, particularly in fields where Ireland has a special interest or competence. We propose that adequate implementation machinery be established for regular and comprehensive review of the programme in the light of performance by other developed countries, in the light of the commitments arising out of EEC membership and in the light of other international developments.

A comprehensive and coherent aid programme will, of course, take time to develop fully but I will seek to have policy directed in some measure towards areas, perhaps for bilateral projects, which show tangible results both to the recipients and to the Irish public whose goodwill is undoubted but who may not otherwise, unless we adopt this policy, fully appreciate the extent of the Government's commitments and activities. A proposal for a central agency to sponsor Irish persons wishing to serve on economic and social development projects in developing countries has been approved in principle by the Government and the arrangements for this scheme are at present being discussed with representatives of voluntary organisations and I shall be making a submission to the Government on this matter shortly. I hope, within a matter of weeks, to have such an agency established and operating, adequately financed.

I turn now, in conclusion, to the implications of what I have said about the implementation of policy. The new obligations undertaken by Ireland as a member of the EEC involving us in policy decisions in respect of a whole range of world problems hitherto beyond our sphere of interest, and the problems posed by the development of the EEC itself and the need to ensure adequate liaison between the Community and this country, require increased resources. Existing staff at home are seriously overstretched, and many desirable and important activities have had to be skimped for lack of manpower. An effective Irish presence abroad, promoting and defending our interests, requires adequate staff to represent us at an ever-growing number of conferences, committees, and other meetings. It requires adequate staff to prepare the Irish position for such occasions; and, above all, adequate staff to consider and formulate proposals for longer-term developments in foreign policy—a task which has imposed excessive strain for some time past due to constant pressure of urgent matters.

We also need to ensure that we are sufficiently widely represented abroad to secure that we are kept in touch with the thinking of other governments with which we have important political and economic relations, and to cover the range of Irish interests involved in many countries.

For some time it has also been evident that there is a need to strengthen Irish Government press and information services abroad. This has now become particularly important because of the serious interests which we have at stake internationally as EEC members, and because of developments of recent years in relation to the North.

Proposals have been formulated to strengthen and improve the Department's press and information work on a coherent and organised basis. It is felt that an adequate structure within the framework of the Department is necessary irrespective of other measures, if any, which might be thought advisable at particular times; and that until and unless the Department's services were strengthened in this way, temporary and costly expedients would continue to be called for at times of crises—despite the fact that these temporary measures have proved less than effective in the past. Accordingly and as a priority it is proposed to assign an additional head of staff for information work to our missions in Britain, France, Germany, Italy and the United States.

This, then, is, in general outline, the policy that this Government will pursue in their relationships with other states and international organisations in the years ahead. I have felt it proper to take this opportunity to speak at some length on this subject, rather than to pursue this year the customary practice of reviewing in some detail the work of the Department during the past year.

It would be remiss of me, however, not to tell the House and the country that it owes a considerable debt to the Department of Foreign Affairs both for the manner in which their staff have worked to bring this country into full membership of the European Community and to represent it abroad with skill and distinction. The Department are lacking in resources because their development was for a long time unduly restricted, leaving them quite inadequately equipped to cope with the enormous expansion of work imposed on them both by preparation for entry to the European Economic Comunity and also by the developments in Anglo-Irish relations brought about by the events in Northern Ireland since 1969. If these inadequacies in staff and other resources can be overcome reasonably rapidly, the Department of Foreign Affairs will, I can assure the House, serve the country well and help it to achieve those of the national objectives that depend upon action in the external forum.

I commend these Estimates to the House.

I should like to thank the Minister for outlining in great detail the policy of his Department and the policy which he intends to pursue and implement. We owe him an acknowledgement and gratitude for going into such detail on the matter. It is particularly appropriate that the Minister should have outlined this matter in the detail which he did. In the first instance, we have not, up to this time, had any indication of what the Coalition Government policy in regard to our relations with other states would be. From views expressed prior to the establishment of the National Coalition by the parties which now comprise the Government we had little reason to be confident of a unified and coherent approach by this Government towards the EEC, towards the type of Community it would be, and towards our contribution to that Community and, through that Community, to the world. I am not satisfied, despite the enthusiasm expressed in his Estimate speech, that we will see a co-ordinated and agreed policy from the Government on this matter. The Estimate speech certainly has all the stamp of the Foreign Minister's own concern and preparation. Nevertheless, we must wonder whether or not it will have the agreement of the other members of the Government and whether it will represent the policy of this Government in the various areas he has touched upon. I shall come back to that in greater detail at a later stage.

Having thanked the Minister for the detailed references he has made to the various areas of his Department, I must correct the implications that this is new, that many of these attitudes and proposals represent a brave new world in our approach to foreign affairs and our association with other nations. I would like, in particular, to refer to the conference of diplomats which he recently convened and to which he referred again this afternoon, as being an idea which was conceived by the Minister and by him alone, that it was entirely new and entirely consistent with his design for our foreign service and never contemplated by the previous Government.

The Minister might well have advised us on the occasion of the summoning of this conference that not only were arrangements in train for such a conference in his predecessor's time but that even in his predecessor's predecessor's time the arrangements for a conference of this nature were set in motion. That is not to say that it was not a very desirable thing, particularly in view of our membership of the EEC, to which the Minister has referred today, and the new associations which we will have through it with the rest of the world, and also in view of the need to re-assess the whole function of our foreign embassies. I think the Minister would have done better service to himself and to his predecessors if he had indicated that this was not a grand design which was conceived by him alone and derived from him for the first time at this stage. I cannot say, of course, that the arrangements had been, at any stage, near finalisation, but I can say that it was a matter of firm principle with his predecessor and with his predecessor's predecessor and that arrangements had been set in train.

It took a long time.

The fact that such publicity attached to the meeting does not mean that other governments and other Ministers who work in a different way do not work possibly to greater effect.

The Minister has outlined in great detail the basic objectives of Irish foreign policy. As the Minister said himself, his speech differs from the Estimate speeches of some of his predecessors, who generally tended to confine themselves to a review of the previous year's activities, which is understandable in view of the fact that the policy of the Government was well known and consistently followed. Nevertheless, the five points which he outlines in page 3 of his programme are matters in the implementation of which he certainly can expect the full support of Fianna Fáil, particularly as they also represent the consistent view of the Fianna Fáil Party in the whole area of foreign policy.

The Minister refers to the contribution we can make in regard to world peace, to the development of the institutions of Europe, in influencing the lessening of oppression in troubled parts of the world. While these are very desirable aims I am not quite sure that, with our resources, including those of our foreign service, it is entirely realistic for this country to expect to be able to adopt such an all-embracing and effective policy towards the troubled areas of the world, whether it is South America, Africa, Bangladesh or anywhere else. We have always had the right to express views on developments throughout the world, but it is important that the Irish people recognise that our first concern should be to work through the institutions with which we are associated and have been for some time, the United Nations, the Council of Europe and lately, of course, the EEC, and through them to try to create better standards of living in the developing world and to ameliorate the conditions of oppression which may exist in the world.

One does get the impression from the Minister's speech that by expressing this grand design he feels that we can influence the attitudes of other peoples and lift the oppressions from other peoples. While I entirely agree with the principles adopted by the Minister and the Government, coinciding as they do with what Fianna Fáil have always endeavoured to do, I must as a matter of realistic comment suggest that the Minister may have run a little too fast and been overcome with new enthusiasm in a new position. I wish him well but I hope he will not be disillusioned if he finds that the Irish voice will not always be effectively listened to when it speaks on troubled areas in many scattered parts of the world. That is not to state that this House does not recognise that this country does belong to a community of nations and that we do have a right and obligation to express our view and to influence the views of the nations directly involved in the creation of peace throughout the world.

The pre-election policy of the Government was significant in that it did not make any reference to its foreign policy except to say that it would maximise the interests of Ireland within the EEC, would endeavour to democratise its institutions and would also work towards securing an effective regional development policy. I do not know how far the Minister has been able to consult with his colleagues on many of the areas which he has covered this afternoon but I suspect, in view of the statements of some of his colleagues and the philosophy expressed in those statements prior to the formation of the Coalition Government, that the opportunity for consultation has been minimal.

Is the Deputy saying that the Minister does not have the full support of the Government for his speech?

I am saying that the Minister will have quite a lot of conversion to effect before he can hope to have the full support of the Government, or of the parties behind him.

Would the Deputy be more specific?

I will, indeed. The Minister has reasonably raised the question of representation for trade and other purposes between this country and the countries of eastern Europe and also the USSR. This matter was discussed in this House on a debate on Foreign Affairs on 18th April, 1972. The Minister will see that on that occasion two of his colleagues in the present Government took apparently contrary and irreconcilable views with regard to the philosophy of the establishment of embassies in certain countries in eastern Europe and more particularly in Russia. The fact that this issue arose in connection with a suggestion for the establishment of an embassy in Russia is not the point I want to stress. It is the philosophy behind the purpose and function of an embassy and what it would be interpreted as expressing from us, either by way of recognition, or by way of support, for the way of life and the régime existing in these countries. Deputy Richie Ryan, the present Minister for Finance, speaking on behalf of the Fine Gael Party, said at column 411 of the Official Report of 18th April, 1972:

One may wonder why at a time of immense national strain and worry the Minister should have added the mischievous idea of establishing diplomatic relations with the USSR.

He went on to say at column 412:

Russia, being in contravention of some of the most fundamental rights of man, how can it be conceived that this country should establish diplomatric relations with Russia?

The general tone of his contribution was along those lines. I may have misunderstood the Minister today but I understood from him that the question of establishing relations with Russia and other countries will again arise. Deputy M. O'Leary, the present Minister for Labour, had a different view altogether on the function of our embassies and what the existence of an embassy represents and whether or not it does, in fact, involve an acknowledgement on our part of agreement with or approval of the state of society as it exists in the country in which we are represented. He said at column 479 in the same debate:

Having diplomatic relations with a country does not convey that one approves of the social system of the country involved.

He went on to say:

Is it suggested that Ireland, on becoming a member of the EEC, should have no diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union? What rule of life suggests that while Italy, France, Germany or Norway all have diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union Ireland should not have diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union? What danger does this hold? What temptation is there? What approval would it entail of the social system in the Soviet Union?

There is obviously in the mind and opinion of two members of the present Government, and others as well, a difference of view, of philosophy, as to what representation from us in any country represents. Does it represent approval of their society or régime, or is it simply to be a decision on our part in our interest purely without any regard to how this decision might be interpreted by the other countries with which we have association or, indeed, by the people of this country?

It is appropriate that we should re-assess the associations we have had with many countries and, more important, the fact that we have not had, up to this time, very active associations either in trade or otherwise with many of the eastern European countries and, as the Minister has said, with many of the countries of Africa and South America. The role of our embassies as trade missions which the Minister underlines in his speech is not, of course, anything new at this time. His immediate precedessor had launched a scheme of co-operation and liaison between the foreign service and Córas Tráchtála in particular and had endeavoured to ensure that our embassies abroad would be effectively advised and served by a representative from Córas Tráchtála, and that between them they could work in very effective liaison and co-operation to promote our trade interests abroad. I agree with what the Minister has said by way of acknowledgment of the co-operation that has always existed between our State bodies—such as Aer Lingus, Bord Fáilte and Córas Tráchtála—and our foreign service. This has been a pattern which the members of our diplomatic service, in their wisdom and reason, and previous Governments have recognised as being essential and desirable. The Minister, in reiterating this today and talking of the need to develop it, is being entirely consistent with the line adopted by the previous Government. He said:

The Government believe that Ireland, because of its freedom from defence commitments, is well-fitted to play an active, if necessarily minor, role in bringing about an atmosphere of further détente in the European context.

He is again re-echoing the words of his immediate predecessor in his address to the Council of Ministers in January of this year.

The scope for further development of trade relations and development of trade through our embassies is very obvious because as this country develops her associations with the community of nations it is obvious that further opportunities will arise for us. This matter has been a consistent part of our policy. One of the last acts of the previous Government was to decide on the establishment of an Irish Embassy in Tokyo. We were motivated by the recognition that, as the Minister has said, Japan has enlarged as a very powerful economic force in the world. Therefore, it is very much in our interest to have trade and diplomatic relations with a country of such powerful influence.

However, what the Minister has said is not consistent with what the present Minister for Finance said when he was spokesman on Foreign Affairs for his party in the last Dáil. He made what may have been a cynical remark—it is not always easy to detect from the text whether a remark is cynical—or what may have been a sincere view when he said that sometimes one noticed that whenever we established a diplomatic mission abroad, such action seemed to be a prelude to a worsening of our balance of trade with the country in which the mission was established. The Minister, Deputy Ryan, did not seem to express any particular enthusiasm in that remark for the development of the trade functions of our various missions. If that is his view, it certainly is not ours and I know that it does not represent the view of the present Minister for Foreign Affairs. So far as we are concerned we will be glad to support any initiative that the Minister may take in this field.

In dealing with the various matters referred to by the Minister I am not taking them necessarily in the order in which he did because it would be impossible for me to note the subjects in such a detailed speech in the order in which they occur. Regarding the functions of our embassies abroad the Minister has indicated that he intends appointing press officers to five of our embassies, those in Britain, France, Germany, Italy and the United States.

In some cases we are supplementing existing personnel while in other cases we are having representation for the first time.

I am glad that the Minister has clarified that point. I am anxious to assure the Minister that he will have our full co-operation in all these initiatives but I am concerned that there should be no misunderstanding or any implication in anybody's mind that much of what is being done is entirely new. Of course what is being done now is a development of our foreign policy and this is only as it should be. With the exception of the major debate on the EEC and a few other isolated instances during which there were views of varying intensity put forward by some Members, all parties in the House have recognised the limitations which are placed on us as a country of modest means and limited resources. This House has recognised the commitment of our diplomatic service particularly in recent times. There has been a recognition of the need to use the expertise and contacts of our diplomatic service and the need to back up their resources in the interest of the development of the trade of this nation. I do not think anything could arise that would change that attitude.

In that connection I would welcome the development of better information services in our diplomatic missions, particularly in the countries mentioned by the Minister, so that such services would be the means of conveying an attractive impression of our country to the people of these countries in the first place and, secondly, to potential investors in Irish industry. There are problems in this area. Under the Department of the Taoiseach, the previous Government had established an information officer of the rank of assistant secretary for the purpose of reviewing the whole machinery of our press and information services at home and abroad. I am not sure that the Minister has had adequate opportunity yet to consider the implications of appointing heads of staff to these various embassies or whether he has considered to what extent they will be integrated into the service, at what levels and salary structure they will be integrated and how their position will be assured. Further, there is the question of whether their appointments will in any way create any tensions or difference of emphasis between these people and the other members of the staff. These are problems that must be dealt with but I would like to hear from the Minister how it is proposed to integrate this information staff into the service.

It is in relation to the EEC that I think the Minister will have his greatest problem. Obviously, one's contribution to a Community depends very much on one's attitude to that Community. The kernel of our whole policy in relation to the European scene will depend to a great extent on whether we consider ourselves as being part of the Community in the fullest sense or whether there will be some who will consider this country as being a country member whose only interest is to use the facilities of the Community but not in any way to develop its role and functions. It is not necessary for me to emphasise that in the present Government there are Ministers who have expressed anything but sympathy not only for our association with the EEC but for the type of Community that it is and for the types of countries represented in it. To quote some of the phrases that were used in debates here, we have heard of the sell-outs to the Tories of Europe, of buying a pig in a poke, of the capitalist's and the rich man's club, from Deputies who are now Ministers in the Government. This was their consistent attitude at the time. If it still represents their attitude one wonders how a Government composed of people with that attitude can make a meaningful contribution to the development of the EEC. Our aim is to make that meaningful contribution and, through the Community, to contribute to these developing countries of the world to which the Minister has referred in some detail and to contribute also to the lessening of tension and the introduction of peace in any way in which the EEC can be effective.

The Minister dealt at some length also with the question of sovereignty. He might well have been giving a lecture to some of the Labour Party Ministers of the Government and explaining to them precisely what the advantages of EEC membership are to us. He might explain to them the essence of sovereignty. He might talk with the Ministers for Local Government, Labour and Industry and Commerce all of whom in the course of debates in this House reminded us that we were selling our sovereignty, that we were reneging on the right to develop our nation in an independent way.

The Minister has spoken eloquently on the need for the development of supra-national institutions in Europe and on the need for the development of a supra-national attitude in Europe, an attitude that would not be too closely tied to the interests of member States of the EEC. We cannot have it both ways. If we insist first and foremost on our rights as a member of the EEC to the exclusion of the interests of the Community as a whole, we can hardly complain if other countries take the view that their membership is purely in their private and national interests and not in the interests of the Community and, through the Community, the world.

In the Minister's opening speech there is a certain element of contradiction on this matter. The Minister has argued strongly for the development of a supra-national rather than a national attitude within the Community but in his speech he made the following comment:

In the short-term, recognising both the unlikelihood of an early abandonment of the veto in favour of qualified majority voting, and the possible value to us of the veto in the years immediately ahead, we should concentrate our efforts on pressure for increased power for the European Parliament and direct elections to it.

I am not asking the Minister to be so generous as to drop any advantages for this country in the institutions and procedures of the EEC but if the Minister says it is important that we move towards the introduction of a qualified majority voting system and early abandonment of veto but, on the other hand, states it is in our interests to maintain the veto for the time being, he is likely to be interpreted as helping on the position adopted by other countries in using the institutions of the Community.

I know that the Minister is a convinced European in the best sense and is convinced of our role in Europe. I know he does not intend just to use the institutions of Europe but there is an implication that we had better rely on the veto for the time being and concentrate on the development of the European Parliament and direct elections to it. I do not think it does justice to what the Minister really intends, having regard to his views on the necessity to democratise the institutions of the EEC.

In this connection I welcome the reiteration by the Minister this afternoon of his anxiety to establish as soon as possible a committee of this House with a view to reviewing the regulations and directives and to better informing members who will sit in the European Parliament. A very complex and important area is emerging here and I assure the Minister that this party will be anxious to co-operate with him as soon as possible in the establishment of this committee. We look forward to early developments in this connection.

I hope to be in communication on this point with the Deputy before the debate ends.

I hope we will be able to get something under way as quickly as possible. One must welcome without equivocation the Minister's remarks regarding our commitment to the underdeveloped countries. This is entirely consistent with what our approach should be to those countries. The establishment of an agency to encourage personnel assistance is to be welcomed. This needs to be implemented through every Government Department and has, in fact, been implemented by the Department of Education and the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries and the various advisory services. It is an area that will demand generosity on the part of the Irish people. It will demand a commitment from them that the resources now being developed in this country and which we hope will continue to be developed must not be selfishly applied for our own interests alone. We have a real obligation to other countries who by nature, history or for any other reason do not enjoy the benefits we have. We all have an obligation to aid their development and share in the satisfaction of their fulfilment. I should like to compliment the Minister on what he has done in this area, in the further development of the programme now under way, and to assure him that as he develops the programme he can expect the support of this party and, I am sure, the support of the people.

The Minister's speech has been very comprehensive in scope although it may be somewhat over-ambitious with regard to our influence in various areas. However, it represents a real attempt on his part to chart the continuing development of our foreign policy. I wish him well in convincing some members of his Government that the policy he has enunciated will represent the policy of his Government in this area.

I do not mean my next comment to be carping criticism but the Minister repeated today what he said last night. I am not quite sure if I heard him correctly last night but I think he said that within hours of the Government being formed the views of the Government were conveyed to the British Prime Minister. One wondered if it could be possible in such a short time that a matter of such grave consequence as a Government's view could (a) not only be formed but (b) be expressed with conviction, and that this view had the backing of all members of the Government.

The Minister repeated that statement this afternoon. I do not doubt the Miniser's capacity to work through the small hours drawing up programmes of this type, or to form a broad view on any proposals, whether on the White Paper or on other matters, but I wonder if in the nature of things, and having regard to the importance of having full Government support, it was possible to do so much in such a little time.

That represents my general view on what the Minister said this afternoon. I know he has given a lot of thought to the various functions in the Department and I would be very much happier if I thought that all he said he had done had the overall support of the members of the Government. That we must wait to see. I hope we can expect the same enthusiasm from the other members of the Government as the Minister has shown in these directions.

I should like to start off by congratulating the Minister. The phrase that comes into my mind is that a wind of change is sweeping across our Foreign Affairs Department. I do not like using clichés but a wind of change is sweeping across this Department. The Minister has conveyed that fact in his own inimitable fashion but he did not say that before that wind of change there was the fuddy-duddiness of a closed society in a Department which did not review and change somewhat as occasion demanded it. He has intimated that from the higher up level, from the ministerial level, changes are taking place and he has shown us that in this wind of change, or brought about by this wind of change, will come a new outlook on our affairs in Europe.

Sitting listening this afternoon to what he said, and later to the speech of Deputy O'Kennedy who emphasised some of the things the Minister had said, I thought that some of the things the Minister had pointed out are very much in the great traditions of Ireland. She has always tried to be on the side of the angels. She has always tried to bring healing thoughts and views in her efforts to get international co-operation and understanding. In many cases she has tried and has succeeded in having significant changes made out of proportion to her size or her importance in the wealth of the world.

Just to touch on one of the things mentioned by the Minister in his opening speech, we are very anxious now to make any contribution we can to the Third World and it is heartening to see that not only are we contributing comparatively significantly in financial aid but we are lending support to the Third World in the realms of thought and the expression of a viewpoint which is generally humanitarian and entirely directed towards helping those people in the Third World without thought of compensatory reward for ourselves. In this matter it is interesting—to me it is fascinating— to think of what the new agency will do when it begins to recruit Irish people to render assistance at all levels to emerging countries.

I was interested in Deputy O'Kennedy's speech. At first I thought he was sourly envious of the Minister's outlook on the future. Later, however, I realised this might be unfair. I thought he was sadly envious. He gave a confused explanation about conferences held in the past—I am not clear whether they were held or whether they were merely meant to have been held; I do not know exactly what happened but certainly nothing quite so spectacular as the action of the present Minister happened. As I have said, I thought I could detect a note of sad envy in the reference of Deputy O'Kennedy because this had not happened when the Government of which he was a member was in power.

What I said, I think, was——

It was rather confused.

To end the confusion, I said that arrangements were in train to have such a conference, maybe not quite in such a spectacular manner.

We are now very much internationally minded and as our French friends would say: “Qui s'excuse s'accuse”—he who excuses himself accuses himself. Perhaps they meant to do it. They were going to do it, they were on the point of arranging it. All such explanations are rather weak. It was never quite done. It was left to Deputy FitzGerald, now Minister for Foreign Affairs, to do it. In a few weeks he did what the late Government apparently would not have done.

Next week he will be spending £30 million.

There was some mention beyond that which was part of this wind of change, this new dimension. I will say—and I am sure the Minister would be the first to say it—that of course there was consultation in different forms, and that this was not the first time that the views of the heads of missions were sought, but it was the first time in which they were sought in that particular form. This is very interesting and it shows to us and to the country that the Minister means business in this respect. I would say that Deputy O'Kennedy's speech reflected a happy agreement with what the Minister wishes to do and what he wishes Ireland to do in the future in international affairs.

During the Minister's speech and Deputy O'Kennedy's speech, I felt that we as a country—and as envisaged in the Minister's policy statement—were not just going into the EEC for what we could get out of it. There was that splendid note to which Ireland always responds, the note of service: what could we do for the EEC, for this great and novel conception of the Communities working together in western Europe? Small though we may be, we wish to play our part in formulating policies and in keeping the democratic ideal in front of the Communities if there were any danger—which I do not think there has been—of those countries forgetting the supra-national aim rather than the super-national aim. It is heartening to hear that we will do what we can to see that those ideals are kept in front of these great powers. They are great powers, and we are not a great power in the sense of money or material wealth and possessions. We have no lack of ideas, nor have we ever had.

In the five objectives of Irish foreign policy it is very interesting, and again very heartening and very new, to see that the Minister is putting Northern Ireland and the problem of Northern Ireland in a special place. For far too long it was as if Northern Ireland did not exist. There were no visits, needless to say, across the Border. Already the Minister has made several visits across the Border. I will not discuss that at length but I mention it as an earnest of the interest which our new Minister for Foreign Affairs is taking in it.

I have mentioned our anxiety to contribute to the development of the European Economic Communities. We will do that, I trust, in a way which will show the world and the European Economic Communities that we can do something for them. The Third World is also of great importance in world affairs today. Although we cannot contribute very much in money to those countries, we can contribute sympathy and help. This new agency which is to be set up will give us a whole new dimension in connection with the Third World. I do not want to delay the House too long on this matter.

After a very short time in Government we now have a Minister who has shown that he will use our very splendid foreign service. We have a foreign service which is second to none with very fine personel who work very hard. It is good to know that their numbers are to be augmented and that they will receive assistance—these men who have been over-worked and who, in many cases, as I know, are not as highly paid as members of some of the other foreign services are. We have a splendid foreign service and we now have a Minister who knows and recognises the work of the people in his Department. He has paid tribute to them here and elsewhere.

We can now look forward to a whole development along lines which are very interesting and very exciting for the Irish people to see and take part in. It will be along the historic lines of Irish encouragement for matters which tend to strengthen the bonds of international co-operation, international goodwill generally, and world peace. Very sincerely and very warmly I congratulate the Minister on his most exciting and interesting work on his first Estimate in the Dáil.

I should like to thank the Minister and his Department for a most informative and comprehensive statement. It certainly was a global trip. It gave a very good account, indeed, of what the Minister hopes to do in future. Perhaps he could have paid some tribute to his predecessors because they must have laid the base for many of the projects which he has in mind. I must take the Minister to task in regard to the listing of his priorities. Our No. 1 priority is the problem of the north-east of this country. The Minister is very much remiss in dismissing this with a two-page mention.

I think I might have been out of order if I had spoken any longer on it after the long debate we had yesterday. I think there is a technical problem.

The Minister spoke yesterday on the White Paper but that emanated from another parliament. We must get it into our minds that the Northern problem is our No. I priority. Unless we can solve that, all the ambitions of the Minister could be brought to naught. In our own country we have a grave problem. Many of our people have died and fantastic damage has been done to property and to the character of the people. Our whole aim must be to deal with the Northern set-up as best we can.

I have often thought that the Department of Foreign Affairs is not the proper Department to deal with the North. That is no reflection on the Department. I appreciate the tremendous work they are doing in Europe and anywhere else we have got diplomatic representation. I believe we should have a special Department for the North alone whose function would be to study and help the people of the Six Countries. While we are a very small country and our voice in the world is not great, at least we can show Europe and the world that we are striving to solve our own difficulties, that we will bend over backwards to stop the slaughter in the North. I do not think that the Minister on this occasion has given this problem the prominence it deserves. If the first world war was started because somebody shot an emperor in the little town of Sarajevo—at least that was the flash point—and if the second world war——

Notice taken that 20 Members were not present: House counted and 20 Members being present,

As I said, I feel the Department of Foreign Affairs are overburdened at the moment with their many commitments and we should have a special department to deal with the north-eastern part of our country and the special problem existing there. It would then be given much greater attention. There would be a special staff versed in all the complexities of the problem. We would show our desire for peace there with justice if we were to get these men and women to devote all their time to solving the problem.

The Minister in his brief has gone very widely through many parts of the world but our problems start here and not in Moscow, Washington or anywhere else. There is also the fact that it is our people who are suffering and by that I mean all the people of the Six Counties. We owe it to them to show our dedication to peace and justice by setting up this special department and letting the Department of Foreign Affairs continue to do the good work they are doing on the foreign scene. I criticise the Minister for merely mentioning in two pages the Northern problem.

I am very reluctant to interrupt the Deputy in this matter. I have given him wide latitude but I feel I must remind him that we had a long debate here yesterday on the subject of the British White Paper which dealt in detail with matters appertaining to Northern Ireland. It is not in order to rehash the business of yesterday.

That is why I was unable to speak at length on this subject.

Yesterday's debate was on the British White Paper and today's debate is on the Estimate of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. They are two entirely different things.

I have given a ruling to the Deputy in this matter. We cannot have today a discussion on the British White Paper which was discussed yesterday. We cannot have a rehash of yesterday's proceedings.

It was the Minister who mentioned the White Paper. I do not want to be acrimonious. I appreciate that the Minister has tackled this matter very extensively. I hope he will consider my suggestion with regard to the setting up of a special department to deal with the North. This would pay handsome dividends and would allow the Department of Foreign Affairs to concentrate on foreign affairs. I do not consider the Six Counties foreign. I consider it part of our country.

I do not suggest that we have the seed of a third world war, but if we do not solve the problem of the north-east part of our country I suggest that the Irish problem, as outsiders call it, could destroy the whole spirit of the European Economic Community. It is very hard to talk about European unity when one white nation is torn by strife because it has been for centuries under the domination of another power. The creation of a special department to deal with the North would show the Northern people that we are always thinking of them and trying to do something to end the problem.

I am glad to see that the Minister has devoted quite an amount of his brief to the EEC. I pay tribute to him that during the campaign to join the EEC he played a big part, like the then Government, in bringing home to the people why we should join the Community. I cannot say the same for some of his ministerial collegues who opposed every step of the way to Europe. I suppose we can now take it that the Labour Ministers have accepted that we have joined the Community, that we are staying in it and that we will be very loyal members of that Community.

They know they will be sitting in the European Parliament as well.

I did not know the Deputy was in the Labour Party. The present Ministers opposed every step into Europe. They taunted us that we were joining the rich man's club, the capitalist club, a new power bloc in Europe. The fact that they convinced so few people to vote against it showed the poor effort they made or how wrong their arguments were. Still, we all welcome their conversion. It may not be a voluntary conversion but I am prepared to accept that other Ministers, apart from the Minister for Foreign Affairs, will now work with it and that he speaks for them in Europe or in any part of the world.

Our membership of the European Community may well play a big part in sorting out our problems here and the efforts of the Minister and ourselves on this side of the House were well worth while in showing the people that our best place was among the other nine nations. We are sorry Norway did not join. I think more nations would join were it not for their fear of some of the big powers such as the Soviet Union which does not want a prosperous and united Europe.

My third priority would be the Third World. I think every Member of the House wants to see us in a position where we can contribute to help and advise and educate the people of the Third World who are enduring so much and are crying out for help from more advanced countries. I accept the Minister's sincerity when he says that he intends to do everything possible to step up our help to them, but I take issue with the Minister when he suggests that on a diplomatic front we should have relations with countries such as the USSR.

It was your Government's idea.

I knew the Minister would claim that but he must be accused of it now, not having done it, as Deputy Dockrell accused Deputy O'Kennedy of not having done other things. Does it not seem strange to be thinking of appointing a Minister or some form of representation to Russia when we have not any representation with some of the nations in the Community? Offhand I can think of Luxembourg where we have no Minister. It is a very small country but we are going out on a grand tour to appoint Ministers to Russia and, possibly, China while there is a nation not very far from us which is an original member of the EEC and we would not honour it by appointing a Minister there. We have a Minister in a neighbouring country and I suppose he will look after both of them. There may be some reason why this was not done before or even now but I should like to hear from the Minister on that point. There may be many other countries where there would be a much better chance of improving our trade even without appointing an ambassador, apart from the Soviet Union.

One can see what might happen if we had a Russian Embassy in Dublin. Like the British or American Governments, we might occasionally have to send them home for carrying on very undiplomatic relations. While I appreciate the Minister's broad vision in world relationships, he should realise that being a small country with limited resources we must use them to the best advantage.

The Minister has said that the presentation—or perhaps creation— of world peace is a primary aim. We certainly back him on that but if he becomes involved in relations with other power blocs while countries much worthier of consideration for an embassy are ignored, that is a different matter. I read a statement by the German Chancellor, Herr Brandt, the other day to the effect that the presence of American troops in Germany was still essential and he left one in no doubt that he feared a possible threat from other countries. I do not think he had Luxembourg in mind. If we are to preserve world peace we must pursue traditional neutrality policies as far as possible. I have often heard European members of the Council of Europe telling of their fear of the Soviet Union. There are countries that would be more closely associated with Europe were it not for their fear of the Soviet bloc. Yet, we are, I imagine, preparing to establish diplomatic relations with Russia. I cannot see the sense in it.

The Minister talks about other East European countries and some of these are striving to think and act independently. There would be some sense in discussing the possibility of having some diplomatic relationship with such countries. These include countries with which we have traditional ties but if we select Big Brother and decide for some reason to have an embassy in Moscow, while it may look good to some people I feel the benefit to the Irish people will be nil. I feel also that it would be a betrayal of the many millions who suffer today under the imperialistic yoke.

Many years ago when President de Valera was President of the League of Nations and when Russia applied for membership he said the application should be considered but that Russia would have to put her house in order and conform to normal democratic practice. We could say the same of China. China has recently shown signs of wanting to be part of the commonwealth of the world. Up to three years ago the Chinese Government would not have welcomed depature from their insular policy but, after the visit of the American ping pong team, things changed so much that President Nixon could visit China. The point I am making is that, if we want to be true to ourselves and to play a responsible role in international affairs, we must ensure that we do not merely play up to the big powers. I hope to see the day when the Community is expanded to include many more countries. I should like to see it at least as big as the Council of Europe.

Mr. Kitt

On a point of order, there is no one on the Government Front Bench. May the debate go on?

Mr. Kitt

Even though a Parliamentary Secretary or a Minister is not present.

They are not interested any more.

Mr. Kitt

I have never seen it happen before.

Mr. Kitt

On a point of order, according to my Order Paper we are discussing the Estimate for Foreign Affairs; according to the monitor here we are discussing the Estimate for External Affairs.

The Chair is not responsible for the monitor.

Mr. Kitt

People around the House are asking what Estimate is on.

I trust my temporary absence from the House did not discommode Deputy Moore.

Before the Government take any definite steps to found new embassies they should give very, very serious consideration to the placing of these embassies. I support the Minister in his desire to increase our representation abroad but he will have to ensure that that representation is, first of all, in the interests of our own country and, secondly, in the interests of world peace. We should let it be known that we are in no way insular in our approach but, at the same time, we should make it clear that we will give priority to those countries which hold the same values that we hold and we will not appoint ambassadors merely as status symbols in the major capitals of the world. We did at one stage break off diplomatic relations with another country. Should the Government decide to appoint an ambassador to Moscow we would in many ways be adding to our worries. It might not be quite so uncomfortable for us to appoint ambassadors to some of the countries in the so-called Third World. These countries may not at the moment be sufficiently developed to trade but, in the interests of humanity, I believe our ambassadors would be doing a far better job for the human race if they were posted to the Third World. That would show our sincerity.

The Minister mentioned the Council of Europe. Will he, when he comes to reply, tell us definitely what the future of the Council of Europe will be? There are many members of the Council who are not members of the EEC and many of the delegates from the non-EEC countries have expressed anxiety about what will happen. They have sent a party around the capitals to discuss the future. I think the Council of Europe is doing a very worthwhile job. There are nine countries in the EEC. There are 17 in the Council of Europe. It is a much more open forum than the EEC. I know the anxiety of the Austrians in particular that we should stay in the Council of Europe. The Council does tremendous work in many spheres and I trust the Government will continue to support the Council to the maximum extent possible and continue to send our delegates there.

I said earlier that the Minister's speech ranged very widely. He has certainly given us food for thought in many of his suppositions. He made two basic mistakes. First, his brief is typical of the brief of a major power. I do not blame him in the least for elevating his sights. That is the right approach. But we must be realistic and appreciate our lack of wealth and our lack of size. It is most important that we should ensure that all our resources are put to the best possible use. Our No. 1 priority is the Six Counties; No. 2 is the European Economic Community and No. 3 is the Third World. Some of the proposals in the Minister's brief could not be implemented for many years to come. Indeed, in one case that I mentioned it would be undesirable. Let us get away from the grandiose idea that we are a major European power. The Minister has travelled more than I have and I am sure he realises that ours is a small voice. That is no reason for not trying to make it louder or for not increasing the number of places in which our voice will be heard. The Minister must be realistic.

In conclusion, I should like to remind the Minister again that his coming forward here with such a brief was made possible by the work of his predecessors and the personnel of the Department. I trust I have given the Minister some points to consider. He should not be hasty or rash in appointing ambassadors to countries until such time as this House has had an opportunity of discussing the whole matter.

I am very grateful to the Minister for his all-embracing review and assessment of the international situation. It is well for us in this House to remember that this is probably the first occasion on which we have had an opportunity of debating the Estimates of the Department of Foreign Affairs since we became full members of the EEC. This, in turn, means a new exercise for the Deputies of this House in their approach to the affairs of this State. It means that, when looking at national problems, we have to look at them in the context of Europe. The EEC, in its structure, has deliberately and particularly provided for consideration of nations not members of The Nine. When we are considering problems in this House— and it has already become evident at Question Time—we must bear in mind that we are looking at the problem in a communal sense.

Deputy Moore criticised the Minister for dismissing in two pages the question of Northern Ireland. As I look at it, Northern Ireland cannot be regarded as foreign territory. It is not, strictly speaking, a subject for Foreign Affairs. It may be, perchance, that in the transition and development of the Department, the Department have quite a lot to do with the affairs of Northern Ireland. This is particularly so in the economic context, and bearing in mind our obligations and the implications of being a divided nation when it comes to considering the role which we play in Europe.

While I praise the Minister for his embracive review and do not want to appear to detract from my opening remarks, there is one area of the world to which no reference has been made. It may be that there was nothing very relevant to say about it, but it appears that no mention was made of Australia. I should like to know what is the present position in regard to our relations with Australia. I know that previous Governments had some little difficulties but I have heard whisperings that a different view might be adopted by Australia to our position in the world. I would be glad of that because I have been to Australia, albeit for a very short while. I was brought to what was a little shrine, if I may so describe it, outside Perth. It was a little hut. It was there the first settlers landed. They were Irish, and I think they came from North Tipperary and such places as were suffering from the then landlords' yoke. Out of consideration for that tradition I would like some little contribution from the Minister and his Department on that country.

Furthermore, that country has a considerable Irish population. It is an English-speaking country. To go back again on history, our system of registered land in this country comes from Australia. It is known as the Torrens system. It was in operation there before we adopted it. These associations should not be lost sight of. It is only right that, when we are discussing world affairs in a global sense, we should refer to Australia and have some report on our present relationships with that country. I understand there have been certain tax and trade difficulties between Ireland and Australia. While it may be remote, having regard to recent currency affairs, I believe that at another time it may become of more immediate interest to us in the field of our economic activities.

The Minister raised the matter of the Burke-Hartke proposals in relation to the United States. He says it is not anticipated that the Burke-Hartke proposals will be adopted by Congress in their present form. We all hope that would be so. He further said that the threat to our economic interest is lessened to some degree also by the discretionary nature of the powers contained in the US administration's proposals. He went on to say that we cannot place too much reliance in regard to our economic relationships with the US by virtue of sentiment. We, in this country, now appreciate that. The US must realise that any step that they have taken or may take to reduce the benefits we give to US investment in this country is a step taken unilaterally by the US. While I do not want to appear too critical at this stage until the final picture is formed, I have the feeling that the US may have slipped into the little error that larger nations are inclined to slip into. They are not inclined to give proper credence, value or assessment to smaller nations. If we have provided an incentive to United States citizens and companies coming to this country, one would expect reciprocation from the US. I have no doubt that, when the time comes, the Minister and the appropriate Departments of State will make the necessary representations to the US authorities.

However, I would sincerly hope that it would not be necessary for this country to make such representations. I would be rather hurt, as I am sure anybody would be in this country, if the United States took such steps as would belittle the good intentions of our country. I think that the United States is probably very interested in our offshore mineral resources. While the picture may not be complete as yet, the United States authorities should consider any step they might like to take under the Burke-Hartke provisions if they want to look for a Government concession or licence from us to avail of minerals off our shores. There must be give and take and there must be a little stopping and thinking by larger nations. I think it is fair to say that international affairs are very much getting to the stage of democratic reasoning and working out of international problems.

The size of a nation does not necessarily belittle its power or influence in the international sphere. I say that because certain remarks have been passed by the Opposition which gave me the impression that they felt that they might be going too far and a bit too fast, that they thought that the Minister for Foreign Affairs was going at things at a gallop. The Minister for Foreign Affairs is right to increase his speed because matters have been moving in the international sphere at a pace which requires a certain amount of speed and energy to keep up with it.

A slow walk seems like a gallop compared with the pace of the previous Government.

Now, be good.

The Deputies of the Opposition should bear in mind that the Minister for Foreign Affairs, when he took office, found that he had a very severely stretched staff, and far from criticising the Minister they commended him for doing something about it. One had a feeling that there was a lack of thought, that there was a slight shortening of the sights when it came to dealing with matters of foreign affairs. This may have been understandable in view of domestic party trouble—it happens, I suppose, in all parties—and they might have been a little preoccupied with matters happening in their own home kitchen and did not have time to direct their attention to their drawing-room and their front door.

There is one matter in relation to which I am very glad the Minister has taken a very courageous and proper step, that is the Third World or the underdeveloped nations. All Deputies know that there has been a great upsurge of interest and a deep concern in relation to certain parts of the world. There have been voluntary organisations in existence for some time, and indeed Ireland has well played her part in that regard. I am thinking of organitions such as UNICEF. That is an organisation which has done tremendous work, but I regret that to date and prior to the Government taking an active interest there has been no tax incentive given in relation to those people who are prepared to subscribe. It sounds not too nice to talk about tax incentives in making voluntary subscriptions but one must look at it from the point of view of where the money comes from for organisations such as UNICEF. It has to be found and if voluntary organisations are in large measure salving the conscience of the nation it is right that they should be given some assistance. These organisations have done a lot to keep the Irish name in good stead in far foreign fields. Therefore I welcome the interest of the Minister and the Government in making it a national matter by roping everybody into it.

We have long had a tradition in foreign countries of being a charitable nation. One does not need to go into the missionary record; it has been there since time began. We have always been the bringers of help and assistance and I would like to throw out a suggestion to the Minister. It appears to me, and, I am sure, to a lot of other Deputies in the House—those who attend to their constituents and I think most of them do—that there is a certain section in society, young people who have been unable to find employment, many of them with a good secondary education. Might I suggest to the Minister that some sort of employment or engagement bureau be set up by his Department or in co-operation with the Department of Labour for the recruitment of suitable people to carry out work in the Third World and the underdeveloped countries?

It is not just money that is required. The great cry recently has been for physical human help at the site of disaster or trouble. We have seen that in Bangladesh and other parts of the world. We have also seen appeals from South America, and indeed the religious organisations, whatever their faith, have in many areas in Ireland taken on specific parts of certain countries of South America to try and help in the very difficult situations that exist there. It has been a battle for survival in certain areas to avoid mass starvation and disease, and while it may have been started on a religious basis it has ended up with work at plain economic and social level. There is still a tremendous demand in those parts of the world for such help.

The previous Deputy has voiced criticism of the intention of setting up embassies in the USSR and other power blocs. This was a course decided on, as we know, prior to the change of Government but I believe it is necessary for us to take a second long look at the countries with whose philosophies and Governments we do not agree. If you are to close the door completely to all communication there is very little you can do to convince those countries with which you disagree. It is through meeting people and discussing problems and people seeing your way of life and your seeing theirs that you get a deeper understanding. One would probably find that in many cases where one did not agree in reality there was not disagreement but there was a lot of verbiage and certain individuals who might have liked to make it appear as if there was disagreement. I was probably wrong in describing Deputy Moore's speech as a criticism. I do not believe it was. I think it was more a fear of the unknown. Frankly, many of us in this House have that fear and reluctance but if one never ventures one never succeeds. One must bear in mind, too, that there are different grades of diplomatic representatives and one might start at a lower level and gradually work to a full communication between those nations and ourselves. The position is that if any Irish citizen is in trouble in the USSR or in China he must go for relief to another embassy. He must get somebody to speak to the Government of the country. We are reaching the stage when we will have to have diplomatic representation of some sort, certainly in all the major countries of the world. After all, we meet them at the UN, we meet them elsewhere at international meetings and we should have some system of communication.

In relation to the EEC I said we felt that the previous Government had not done enough homework for the EEC up to the time of the change of Government. When the Irish delegates went to the European Parliament they were very short of briefs and information on matters that arose there. The Irish delegation had, on at least two occasions, to look for an adjournment of one month on matters that were of importance and, indeed, when the month had elapsed the Irish members had little or no information as to what attitude to adopt or the reason why a certain attitude was being adopted. I know that the present Minister has taken steps, and so have the Ministers in other Departments, to brief the Irish representatives at the Council of Europe. In many cases it goes even further than Government briefing. Irish business will have to sit up and take notice and make use of its delegates in the European Parliament unless it wants to be completely out of the picture and out of the race.

There is a resolution in for a Second Reading of matters that go through the European Parliament. It is a pity we did not have that before now because it might have given us time to take a second breath to deal with certain matters that were going through. There were some rather vital matters being discussed at the European Parliament and our members out there had no brief, no information, and had to play the matter by ear. On many occasions they had to avail of assistance from other countries. That is a poor state of affairs and it does not do our stature in the European Parliament any good.

The Minister referred to the matter of the veto. This nation was a latecomer to the Common Market and I cannot help remembering that shortly before Ireland's accession there seemed to be a considerable speeding up and concern on the part of the then members, the Six, in relation to fisheries and certain other matters. I do not know whether it was by good fortune or otherwise but good counsel prevailed and there was a slight delay in implementation of certain matters that gave us an opportunity to have some sort of word, as observers if not as full members, but we should be slow to do away with the veto, even to modify the veto, at the moment. This is a personal view. We are at the stage now of completing the structure on which the European Community works. We had a good instance of it the other evening. We saw on television Mr. Thompson, the man who deals with environmental matters. He said that he had not got the staff as commissioner to deal with all the problems that were before him, that he had not got all the information, that he had not made up his mind as to what the full structure of his Department would be.

I think the Irish nation would be deeply concerned to see that the structure suited them and even though Ireland might be the only country that was not suited in any instance it might be vital to the good of this country that we would have some right of veto. If nothing else, it would make other nations take note of our position and have regard to the fact that Ireland's interests must be considered even though it might not suit other nations, big or small. Ireland and Britain are the only islands in the EEC. By virtue of that fact we will probably have problems that will not apply to the nations on the mainland. We will undoubtedly suffer more in relation to such matters as transport costs. This would give rise to some difficulties in the more remote areas. We know what transport costs mean even in a small country like ours. I am instancing this aspect of one that will probably take some time to sort out so far as Ireland is concerned.

Regarding Deputy O'Kennedy's concern for a co-ordinated policy from this side of the House, I do not think he need have any fears in this regard. There is a tremendous amount of work to be done. It will be a battle to keep up with the pace of international affairs and changes. That matter alone will absorb all the attention of this House and this Government. I cannot see any reason for Deputy O'Kennedy's concern. The Deputy made reference to the speeches from Deputy O'Leary who is now Minister for Labour but he did not refer to recent speeches made by the Minister for Labour after he had seen and considered the situation in Europe as it is now evolving. This is one of the kites that is flown unnecessarily and which does not contribute in any way to the debate. Possibly it was the entrée to Deputy O'Kennedy's speech for the purpose of giving us a little taste for listening to a little more. I take it in that spirit.

A Cheann Comhairle, as this is the first occasion on which I have had an opportunity of taking part in a debate in this House, it would be remiss of me if my first few words were not to thank the people of the North County Dublin constituency for placing their trust in me and for giving me the opportunity to speak in the Parliament of the Irish people in their name and on their behalf.

At the outset, I congratulate the Minister on his appointment and I wish him good luck in the great task before him. I congratulate him also on his review of the activities of his Department which extended to a brief of 38 pages. I am glad that he has given so much consideration to this very important matter of Foreign Affairs and to our relationship with peoples of other countries because in this rapidly shrinking world relationships between people have a special meaning and, therefore, should have a special responsibility in Government in the seventies, not only governments in Ireland but throughout the world.

In the estimate which the Minister laid before us he referred to five different offices of our services in the US. These are in Washington, New York, Boston, Chicago and San Francisco and involve a total expenditure of £221,425. With all of this contribution and with the amount of money being spent surely it is possible to improve the information that is being passed to the press and television in the US and to get away from the stereotype, wire service reports that any of us read on any occasion that we visit the US. No matter which newspaper one reads there, one gets the same wire service report on happenings in this country. There is no variation in the theme, no in-depth information and no background information. Consider the nature of this service as against the massive British propaganda machine which down through hundreds of years has been churning out the British line on all questions concerning British and Irish affairs. I am glad that at the end of his brief, the Minister indicated a certain intention to improve this position. Also in his brief he referred to the economic relationships between ourselves and the US and said that this relationship will not be influenced unduly by sentiment. Anybody who is familiar with the details of the negotiations on the landing rights issue cannot fail to understand that there is no such special relationship and that any such relationship there is is not being influenced unduly by sentiment. I would ask that in future negotiations between the Departments and the American government that the Minister operates strictly on the basis of negotiations between one sovereign state and another, that he would not go cap in hand expecting favours because of blood ties.

There is reference in the brief to our services in London, which is costing approximately £125,000 this year. In the course of the year I would like to see our consular service in what are known as the "Irish cities" in Britain being improved. Many of our people are living in these cities but, thank God, emigration from this country has almost come to a stop.

In his brief the Minister says:

During the past year there has been a new openness in British thinking —a willingness to facilitate and, indeed, encourage a rapprochement between North and South in Ireland and a recognition that Britain's best interest lies in finding a solution to the long-standing "Irish Question".

However, the new openness of which the Minister speaks is not reflected in objections and complaints that the Government convey regarding the behaviour of some of Her Majesty's troops in our occupied six counties. As this is my maiden speech I do not intend commenting on the indecent haste with which the Minister followed on the visit of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Health and Social Welfare to London. I do not wish to go into the question of whether the Minister's visit was carried out with or without authority.

It is not in order to interrupt a Deputy in the course of his maiden speech.

Mrs. Hogan O'Higgins

We are only encouraging him.

Be careful. He is a chip off the old block.

Off the old mitre.

We shall have no interruptions of any kind.

Perhaps the most important decision ever made by the Irish people was their decision during the past 12 months to enter the EEC. It would be wrong if I did not congratulate the then Minister who was involved in the negotiations and his immediate successor—I am referring to Dr. Hillery, who is our Commissioner in Brussels, and to Senator Brian Lenihan. I should also like to congratulate the staff in the various Departments who took part in the negotiations that led to our accession to the EEC.

In the EEC as in America there is a lack of information and knowledge about our country. The general impression one gets when meeting continentals is that their knowledge about this country is confined to news broadcasts; they get the impression we are a nation of bombers and killers involved in a nation-wide civil war. To them Ireland is a place over which deep depressions pass on the way to Europe. This is the depth of their knowledge about us. Surely something can be done by the Department of Foreign Affairs to improve this image.

When I speak of the EEC I must refer to one of the member States. I would ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to use his good offices in an effort to stop the French from nuclear testing in the South Pacific. Deputy Esmonde referred to our close blood ties with Australia; this is true and applies also to New Zealand and other countries in that part of the world. It is not good enough that the French, posturing as a nuclear power without regard for the air being breathed by their fellowmen, should be allowed to carry on in this high-handed manner without regard to the attitude of the governments and peoples of other countries. I would ask the Minister to impress on the French the concern of many Irish people about this matter.

I was disappointed that in his 38-page brief the Minister devoted such little space to environmental matters. He stated:

The Council of Europe is seeking a new, or revised, role. We should help it to find its place—concerned with issues too broad to be confined to the EEC, that is to say, the environment, legal reform, culture and education, human rights.

In his long statement the Minister could find use for the word "environmental" only once. On 3rd May, 1973 at column 471 of the Official Report I asked the Minister for Local Government if, in the interests of the fishing and tourist industries, conservation, planning and recreation and the control of pollution and coast erosion, he would assist Dublin County Council, by the secondment of staff, if necessary, to implement its initiative for the organisation of an Irish Sea area conference on nature to be attended by representatives of all local authorities, Irish and British whose areas are bounded by the Irish Sea. The Minister replied as follows:

The scope of the subject referred to in the Deputy's question is clearly such as to indicate that any discussions should be on inter-governmental or international level and it would not, therefore, be appropriate for a local authority to organise such a conference.

Pollution seems to be the chief issue concerned and one affecting the other issues referred to also. In this regard I may mention that action has already been taken and will continue to be taken as developments demands them. Examples of action taken to-date are:—

(a) Both Britain and Ireland have signed the Oslo Convention on the prevention of the Pollution of the Sea by Dumping from Ships and Aircraft. This Convention applies to the Irish Sea.

(b) Ireland and Britain are taking part in the preparation of EEC environmental policy, which is expected to include, among the subject matter, marine pollution from coastal installations and outfalls.

(c) Ireland was represented at an international conference held in London in March to consider safety and pollution safeguards in connection with the development of mineral resources off the shores of north-west Europe.

(d) There have been informal discussions with British Departments in regard to the question of arrangements for dealing with oil pollution at sea.

When pressed, the Minister referred me to international conferences rather than local authority conferences. Is the Minister for Local Government correct, or are we to assume that because the Minister for Foreign Affairs referred to the environment on only one occasion he is not interested in the matter? The Minister mentioned the word "defence" many times; he referred to "trade", "commerce" and "apartheid" several times. Probably the most important matter facing the people of the world is the protection of their environment and the quality of life. Surely the Minister for Foreign Affairs could have given more consideration to this important topic.

The Minister referred to the third World and our relationship to it. It seems contradictory to send aid and contributions to the Third World countries and, at the same time, be involved in destroying the environment and the quality of life in those countries by nuclear testing and other such activities.

Deputy Esmonde spoke of the understanding that can be achieved between nations with different social and political systems. He stated that by meeting with people from those countries a sense of understanding can be developed and I agree with the Deputy. However, I do not think this attitude was reflected in the recent decision, whether by the Minister for Defence or the Minister for Foreign Affairs, not to allow one of our Army lieutenants to participate in a sporting event. Contacts with people from other countries, whether on the sports field, in a stadium, on the hockey field or in the swimming pool can be of great value. By such meetings and by conversations with people from other countries barriers can be broken down. The decision taken in this instance was a major blunder and I hope that a similar decision will not be made in future.

The Chair does not wish to interrupt the Deputy—indeed it does not wish anybody to interrupt the Deputy in his maiden speech—but clearly the Minister has no discretion in this matter.

I was about to pass from it. I would point out that I am speaking about matters in general concerning interference by a Department in matters relating to our fellow man in other countries. The subject of foreign affairs is all about people from one country meeting peoples from other countries. It was with that in mind that I tried to build up the point about politics and sport. Of course, I bow to your ruling, Sir, and will not continue with it.

The possibility of building up economic ties with Middle Eastern countries was mentioned. It was referred to specifically in the Minister's speech as follows:

In certain parts of the Middle East there are important possibilities for this country of expanding trade and other economic contacts. In view of the growing wealth of a number of these countries and their need for goods and services that we can provide we shall purse contacts with them which hold promise of considerable advantage to us. We hope and expect that the friendly and constructive relationship which we would wish to establish with these countries will be reciprocated.

I trust that the Minister in his contacts with these countries will be constructive and friendly. I assume that one of the countries he spoke about is Libya. I trust that in his friendly contacts with Libya and with Colonel Gaddafi the Minister will emphasise that we have one soverign Government in this country and that we do not need the interference of oil sheiks or colonels to tell us how to run our affairs.

The Minister referred to the possibility of opening new embassies in the Third World. The building up of contacts with other countries is a laudable objective, but surely there must be some guideline in regard to the financial outlay involved in the opening of new embassies. I trust that the Minister's decision in this respect will be influenced by some financial criterion. The Minister refers specifically to this question as follows:

Our economic relations with East and Central Africa and the number of Irish people living there suggest that diplomatic relations might be opened in that area in the not too distant future.

Later he spoke about opening an embassy in Tokyo, opening diplomatic relations in Eastern Europe and about extending our diplomatic services throughout Europe. Although appreciating the Minister's concern—it is the concern of all of us—to have closer contacts with our fellow man in other parts of the world, we must realise that we are not and will never be a major world power. As a neutral nation we can speak with an unbiased voice in world chambers and councils, but let us not start running off opening embassies in a dozen countries in Central Africa and in Eastern Europe as well as having extensions of staff in existing European embassies and consulates.

I assume it was that type of thing the Minister had in mind when he spoke about "additional staff and additional allowances". The total additional cost apparently will amount to £286,621 which is far in excess of all of the money we are spending in our five USA offices. I hope that, when the Minister is replying, he will let us have a breakdown of what exactly is involved in "additional staff and additional allowances".

I spoke earlier about a matter which to me is of greatest importance in this year, not only in Irish but in world history. It is the protection of our environment, of the living creatures around us. Earlier, I spoke at length about it and I do not wish to go into further detail at this stage. However, I ask the Minister, who has shown such a comprehensive grasp of multinational affairs right down to Ruandi, that when he is considering all these items he would come nearer home and support efforts to protect the quality of our life in Ireland by negotiating agreements with other governments to ensure that this island, the air above it and the seas around it, will not be destroyed by actions of people outside our control. This should be one of the first priorities of the new Minister and I hope that, in his reply, he will give me some assurance that he will take further action in this very important fiield.

Finally, I ask that the representatives we send to our embassies throughout the world would mix not just with the representatives of governments but that they would move outside the embassies and meet the peoples of the countries in which they are stationed. The problems of this world, its peace and stability, will be solved only by meetings between the peoples of different countries, by the sharing of views of the peoples as distinct from meetings of governments and bureaucracies. That is why I suggest that our men abroad should show more concern for the ordinary peoples of the countries in which they are stationed. I appreciate that already they are doing a marvellous job but I would ask that they extend their activities and move out among the peoples of the world. I would ask that in future appointments to our embassies—this has been promised in the Minister's statement— efforts be made to build up our communications media and information services to the level of those in other countries so that we will get away from the sterile wire service reports one gets when one is in another country and wants to read reports of home. I congratulate the Minister on the size of his brief—I do not agree with everything in it—and I admire the way he presented it to the House.

I shall begin by congratulating the Minister on this in-depth brief on foreign affairs. He has certainly stretched right around the globe. Mainly I wish to deal with the biggest event in our 50 years history as a nation, our entry to the EEC. Our Minister was one of the foremost members in leading us in. At the time he may have been an Opposition Deputy but, in reality, he was the European: he was the man who led us in.

Now that we are in and the benefits are there, I look to him to ensure that they come to us. I am thinking particularly of regional policy. This is a very important aspect of the EEC which we must look at, because we are an island cut away from Europe, and we could very easily be neglected if we had not got a strong voice in European affairs. It is important to us that as a country, portions of which are underdeveloped, the regional policy of Europe, the EEC regional policy, takes our needs fully into consideration.

We must also look at the social policy and the social aspects of the EEC. These will bring a new dimension to us because the social policies of the European countries, particularly of the Six, as they were before they were the Nine, were far in advance of ours, mainly because they are richer. It is important that in any social policies which are formulated the needs of this country are taken fully into account because we are trailing behind in our standard of living.

I should like to congratulate the Minister. When he was only a month in office he called all our ambassadors to a conference here. It was the first time this was done since the first Government of this State took office. That indicates clearly the thinking of the previous Government on Foreign Affairs. It was important to get these people together so that they would have a formulated cohesive policy, so that they could speak with one voice, so that they would know what was happening and reflect the thinking in this country, and that they would not be in isolation. To me that was a clear indication that the new Minister meant business.

I believe that our embassies should play a greater role in trying to acquire business and trade for us. The Minister should consider employing experts in the embassies, a highly-trained sales force, apart from the other agencies that already exist, so that firms who cannot afford to have trading links throughout the world would have access to trading links within their own embassies. This would also have a big effect on our balance of payments.

I believe that it is very desirable that we should have embassies in other countries. We cannot ignore some nations because ideologically they think differently from us. We have suffered from this in the past. Over the past 50 years there was very little dialogue between North and South, practically none. There was gross neglect because they thought differently from us and we thought differently from them. We see what has happened as a result. Now we are falling over backwards to have dialogue but it is hard to get it going at this stage.

That is why I believe it is desirable that we should have embassies in the countries of the eastern bloc, and particularly in Moscow where it is necessary, even for selfish reasons, to build trade and to have trading links, because as a nation we must trade. It would also give us an opportunity of breaking down the suspicions that exist. Having good relations with the eastern bloc would make Europe a safer place. I envisage a real European Community as a community which embodies all of Europe. When we attain that, the suspicions and the real fears which exist today will have been allayed. This is very important. It is easy to talk about fear but it is not easy to remove it. It can only be removed with goodwill and with a desire to work with other people.

We hear a lot about the Third World. It seems to be rather a nice thing to talk about but, when one looks at it, one sees that it is one of the growing problems in the world today. If it is neglected that neglect will rebound. I should like to ask the Minister if in our universities and educational institutions places could be reserved for people from the Third World. This would be a gesture on our part and it would show that we are really serious. Through our missionarises we have made a big contribution throughout the Third World. It is now up to the Government to show that they are really concerned about the Third World. I should like the Minister to consider my suggestion. I believe it would be a worthwhile contribution.

Our relationship with America has always been reasonably good for the simple reason that there are so many Irish people there. We speak the same language. I believe we will be having trouble about the landing rights. The Americans have been using their weight a little but, with the right kind of diplomacy, I have no doubt that the Minister will solve that problem. I know it does not come under his Department, but his Department can work in the diplomatic field and make a big difference, and perhaps ease certain tensions.

Another area which seems to be contentious at the moment is in relation to the incentives which we give to American industrialists. I believe diplomacy here is highly desirable and the Minister is aware of this. No doubt in his conference with his ambassadors a few weeks ago he briefed them on what to say.

I am also happy to see that he has turned his attention to the Far East. Most western countries look on the Far East as being very remote but today as the world is growing smaller, it is important that a small nation such as ours should have a voice in the Far East. There are certainly great trading possibilities there and it is necessary that we get in at the early stages and do our homework with regard to creating a right climate for trade.

With regard to our relationship with Australia, I believe more trade could be done here. They have the same language as ourselves and there are many Irish links with them. Far more could be done through our ambassadorial service to ensure that trading links are built up with that country. I now come nearer home and deal with our relations with England. I believe that the Minister's visit to Mr. Health, despite the comments of some people in the Opposition that it was done without the authority of the Taoiseach—which, of course, was not true—engaged in the kind of dialogue which is necessary to win the confidence of the British and to get them to have confidence in us. This is the only way we can break down any deep-rooted suspicions we have of each other. The problem of Northern Ireland will have to be solved between the British, the North of Ireland and ourselves. We certainly cannot have any impediment between ourselves and Britain in regard to this problem. I believe the Minister now has a very good relationship with the British Government and this is very desirable.

The last Deputy objected to interference with a member of the Army participating in games in South Africa. The Government were quite correct in forbidding this man to go. He is a member of the National Army and we are part of the United Nations. If we did not stop him going we would be hypocrites. We must take a stand against apartheid. One of the greatest tragedies in the modern world is the way a great majority nation is subjected to such tyranny as the coloured people are in South Africa. We should make our voice heard in any way we can regarding this matter. If we do not, we cannot call ourselves a Christian nation.

I want to thank the Minister for such a fine document. I look forward to our Department of Foreign Affairs growing in stature and bringing credit to Ireland.

As this is the first occasion the Minister has introduced his Estimate, I should like to wish him well in the Department of Foreign Affairs. His speech was a very wide-ranging one; he and his advisers should be complimented on the breadth of his speech, which also bears the imprint of the Minister's personality. One feels, on close examination of it, that the Minister is taking over an on-going policy and continuing with it. I expect this is true, because the policy on foreign affairs which has been on-going over the past 15 to 20 years in foreign affairs is the only practical policy.

It can be acknowledged, from listening to the Minister and looking back at our recent history, that in foreign affairs Ireland has been making steady progress since our entry into the United Nations. Listening to some passages of the Minister's speech one might get the feeling that Ireland had taken a great leap forward in the past few weeks, but I am sure that is only an impression. I hope we will not suddenly be confronted with a rash of embassies in all sorts of places. I urge the Minister to approach this question with caution. I am sure he knows that every mission opened will be there for many years, because it cannot be closed once you open it. The criteria should be fairly rigid and the area concerned should be of value to Ireland or to the contribution Ireland can make. There should be some essential factor involved and, because of our smallness in economic extent, we should be able to have some trading advantages. There are many countries in Eastern Europe with which it would be nice to have diplomatic missions but there are too many countries there for a country of this size. The community here have to pay for the cost of opening embassies in any countries abroad.

The Minister, in his speech, referred to proposals to improve the Department's press and information work. We know that in recent times it has been necessary to engage press and information services to deal with the misleading reports and misunderstandings in relation to the Northern position. I believe those misleading impressions, apart from the situation in the North, exist in many countries about Ireland. If it is not already being done, I urge some form of monitoring by our legations and embassies of what is being said in the media, Press, radio and television in different countries, because I have had letters from the other side of the world asking what was going on because they did not believe what they heard from the international news agencies. If the Department's press and information section were only to write to editors of different media, including television stations, in different countries to correct misleading reports it would at least ensure that they would be made aware of the sort of misrepresentation that has gone on about our country for many years but which has particularly applied in the past two or three years.

I am sure we would all support any effort we could make to increase our contribution to the Third World. The main contribution we can make in this area is the human one. Our economic resources are still relatively limited but in the Irish character and spirit there is the urge to help others and this is one of the ways in which we can, and, indeed, are making a contribution.

I believe, and I agree with the Minister, that in the EEC we should not make as much noise as we can but should be as constructive as we can. In the EEC referendum I argued against those who were against the EEC, saying that we should approach membership of it as if we were one island, that we had no right to stand still because of the unfortunate division of our country, that we should go forward with courage and confidence. That is the line we should now follow in the EEC because it will itself create momentum towards bringing our people North and South together.

I shall begin by wishing the Minister good luck in his office and I hope he will make the success of it that he believes he will make. It will not be for lack of trying, I am certain.

I believe there should be more contacts between politicians here and those of other countries particularly in explaining our policy on Northern Ireland. In March, 1972, I visited the USA and was fortunate enough to be invited to Washington to meet members of Congress there. I was given the invitation by New York Senator James Buckley and through his good offices I met as many as 50 members of the US Congress, as well as a number of other Senators. I had with me the White Book of the statements and speeches made by the then Taoiseach in relation to Northern Ireland and I had sufficient of them to give one to each member of Congress I met. It is not sufficient for our Department of Foreign Affairs to brief the United States Department on our policy; it is very important that the US politicians be brought up to date with our thinking, particularly on Northern Ireland problems. I associate also with this now the importance of explanning to them the effect of the US proposal to make American firms setting up here liable to US tax if they are not charged tax here.

On that visit I found that certain members of Congress were pretty well informed as to what was going on here and on our policy particularly in regard to the peaceful line we wanted to pursue, the line we are pursuing of reconciliation between the people North and South. I read some of the speeches made by certain Congress men in the Congressional Record and while many of them were well disposed towards us they were not as well informed as they might have been.

I welcome the proposal to strengthen the Irish Government's press and information service because when we have friends in America—and we have always been fortunate enough to have had them when we needed them—we should never abandon them even if we do not need them in the present or the near future; we should keep close contact with them because there is great goodwill for this country in America. We should do all we can to sustain that. When we have people like Senator Buckley, Congressman Carey and other people that I am sure the Minister knows, who are well disposed towards us, we should put them on a mailing list. They would be glad to receive the occasional information letter informing them of what is happening in Ireland at the particular time.

One of the first things I did when I returned was to go to Markpress and ask that these people I had met be put on the mailing list for any important piece of information that was being issued. I do not know if that was actually done but I did ask that they should be kept informed of our policy in this way. I think this practice should be continued. Where Members of the House have friends, say, in the British House of Commons, they should also keep in touch with them so that all the time we would have informed voices speaking on our behalf when we seek their support to bring pressure to bear, if necessary, on the British Government in particular, so that they might better understand the Irish question which they have so little understood for so many centuries.

I share the hope that Britain will come to realise that the only way in which Britain and Ireland can come together eventually will be by coming apart. It is very important that the British Government should be seen to be encouraging this. They have started, for the first time, in this direction and I hope they will continue.

There are people on this side of the House who are eager to co-operate with the Government in pushing, wherever we can, the policies of our Government. The policies are fairly identical in relation to the North. I certainly have not detected any disagreement on the part of the Minister.

The Minister has heard already about the need for care in handling our relations with the North, particularly in relation to his own visits there. It is a good thing that our people should go up North and convince the people in the North that we are a civilised people. However, great care should be taken in the release of names of the people whom the Minister meets because of the subsequent harassment of these people. I think he has been made aware of one person who has been harassed; four times the paratroopers battered on his door.

The Deputy is aware I made it clear that I never mentioned the names of any of the people whom I met.

Unfortunately, the Irish Independent published a list of names of people whom the Minister was supposed to have met, including the name of a man whom the Minister did not meet.

So I understand, but that did not come from me or from any source in the Republic. It must have come from people in Northern Ireland. I attach the greatest importance to this; it is a first principle of any first contacts.

I hope the particular newspaper will take note of the remarks and appreciate the embarrassment that can be caused. There should be a greater liaison between the Government Information Bureau and the media than has existed heretofore. I do not think the Minister will disagree with me on that.

No. Steps have been taken to that effect.

I am glad to hear that. With regard to the Minister's comments on the Third World, while I share to a very large extent the sentiments expressed by him about spreading our aid as far as we can, and where it will have the most effect in those countries less fortunate than we are, the Minister should bear in mind that the parties comprising this National Coalition very freely advertised that there were 600,000 people here living, as they described it, below the poverty line. I do not accept that that figure is accurate. I do not believe that anyone here is hungry because of the inadequacy of our social services. I believe there are people who may go hungry because of bad housekeeping or because certain members of our society spend the children's allowances, for instance, on drink, or something like that. If, however, that figure is correct, then we would want to take a long, hard look, first of all, at our own position from the point of view of helping our own people first. The old saying "Charity begins at home" still holds true. I believe we have a well fed nation and a well clothed nation. I believe we can afford to send a certain amount to other countries, particularly those countries which experience huge national disasters. I believe it is the desire of most of our people that we should help. When statements are made alleging that 600,000 of our people are living below the poverty line, then the term "poverty" should be explained exactly because poverty means different things in different countries.

I wish the Minister well in his work. I hope we will see a greater growth in understanding amongst all the peoples of the world and that we will be seen to be playing our part in creating that understanding.

It is only right that on a change of Government and at this point of time in the life of the new Dáil a comprehensive and detailed statement of Government foreign policy should be given here on this Estimate. It is only fair to say that the Minister's speech has been well received and the members of the Opposition, with one or two exceptions, welcomed the Minister's speech. That is as it should be. It was my experience in the last Dáil that the Government were reluctant to discuss policy in depth. The Dáil should discuss policy, particularly foreign policy, because of our accession to the European Economic Community and it is only right that the Minister should come in here and give the House a clear exposition of his approach.

The most important part of the Minister's speech from my point of view was that in relation to trading. We are a trading nation. Our economy is an open economy. Because of that one of the most important services the Department of Foreign Affairs can render is a first-class information structure. It is imperative, especially in relation to the EEC and the United States of America, that we should have a first-class line of communication between our embassies abroad and industry at home. That has been lacking in the past. Even when information was assembled in Dublin it was not disseminated to the industrialists here who could benefit by it. The information should be packed in a very professional fashion and there should be no loopholes in the service.

The EEC structure is very complicated in relation to imports and exports and great care will have to be taken to ensure that all the information required is readily at hand. I know that Córas Tráchtála and the IDA have been involved in assembling information, but more needs to be done. I suggest the Minister should give some thought to the development of this service. The industrial scene in Ireland is changing rapidly, as it is in Europe. There is great need for market information and for information in relation to licences and levies, and perhaps even in relation to the market for merging companies or companies having association with other companies in Europe. Some finance houses in the private sector are involved in some way in this field, but there is need for even more efficient services. This service could be provided by the Department or an agency of the Department.

The EEC is a vast organisation. We in the Oireachtas are entitled to more information and explanation about what is happening in Europe. The Minister referred to the Parliamentary Committee which may be set up. That is welcomed. It is important that this committee be backed by adequate staff and adequate secretarial service without which this Parliamentary Committee would be assured of failure. The Minister is fully aware of the need for this information. His exposition of the development of the EEC, as the sees it. in the framework of the structures of the governments that are in it has been very well expressed in his speech. It is important that we should have the best possible personnel speaking for us in Europe, both from the point of view of Members of the Oireachtas and of members of the various Departments of State who will be involved in negotiations and in keeping an eye on what is happening in Europe. We must not fail in this, what I consider to be Ireland's greatest opportunity for economic advancement.

There are three major areas within the EEC policy which, I think, need more explanation than others. The first is the common agricultural policy. It is also important that the negotiations in which the EEC are involved, or intend to become engaged in, with the countries of the Third World should ensure that there are not trade advantages, especially in agricultural products, to be gained by such countries. We must take great care to see that we are not out manoeuvred in this field. It is this field which offers the best advantages to the Irish exports. It would be a shame if we allowed the agricultural products of countries of the Third World to gain access to what is, I admit, a protected market. The Irish people decided to go into that protected market and we must make the best gains possible. I say this without minimising our responsibility to countries of the Third World, the developing countries. I am glad that the Minister has put forward his views in relation to our contribution towards underdeveloped countries. In relation to the EEC it is vital that we protect our interests as a trading nation.

The second point of vital importance relates to regional policy. We have in parts of Ireland an underdeveloped economy. It is of the utmost importance that we should gain the maximum benefit from the regional policy of the EEC. It has not been fully explained to the House or to the people how this will come about. I look forward to more information in respect of regional policy.

It is accepted in relation to social policy that our social welfare services are not in line with EEC social services. This is an area which must be tackled immediately. It is an area which is difficult to tackle overnight because so much finance is involved. The reallocation of resources will require time-consuming effort on the part of the Government. It must be done, and I know that the Minister is more than interested in this field.

In general, our relations with America have aways been good. We should not minimise the role which the Americans can play in our trade development. We seem to have our minds concentrated on the European market at the moment, but we should not ignore the potential of the American market. In 1971, according to the Central Bank Report, we exported 12 per cent of all our exports to America. We must ensure that the trade routes to America are kept open and also that the American Government do not close off this important avenue. The American market is just as important, potentially, as the European market.

Yesterday the House discussed the White Paper on Northern Ireland. I am reluctant to discuss the Northern Ireland situation. It is a problem best left to the few who are experienced and are in close touch with the problem. Perhaps the greatest hope for peace in Northern Ireland lies within the framework of the EEC. It is there employment can be gained and greater social harmony achieved. Differences in economic terms between Northern Ireland and this part of the country can be equalised within the framework of the EEC. This will take time, but the sooner it comes the better. I know that the Minister is more than mildly interested in the North. He is one of the few Deputies who has gone to the North time and time again to discuss the problems on all sides. That is generally acknowledged in this House. We all look forward to a peaceful settlement in the North within the framework of reconciliation between the communities there. We can only play our part by ensuring that we are seen to be a Government in full command of the Army and of the police force. It has been said many times that we must be seen to be a law-and-order State, and certainly if there is to be any reconciliation in Northern Ireland we must play our part here.

Our relations with the countries of the Third World have been dealt with. We are not a very wealthy nation. We have not a great part to play but we are a nation which can stand proudly, a nation developing, a nation which has thrown off colonial domination in the early part of this century. We are a respected nation and we have a part to play within Europe and also with Eastern Europe. It is only proper that we should discuss the emergence of Russia, China, Japan and our role with those countries. They offer trading potential and cultural links from which we can benefit. I am sure that in time an embassy will be established in Russia and that we will benefit from that connection. There is little else I want to say in this debate except to wish the Minister well in his term of office.

I would like to thank all those who spoke in this debate. It was a very constructive and well-informed debate. I am grateful for what some people have said about the Department and, in some instances, about myself. In concluding this debate I shall be, perhaps for me, relatively brief, because when I was in Opposition I was very critical of Ministers who in their opening speeches said very little and left the meat of what they had to say until the end. I do not think anybody could accuse me of doing that today. I have tried to put all my cards on the table at the beginning. I would like to think that this has helped the debate, that it has meant there has been a broader debate, because it has dealt more fully with various aspects than might otherwise have been the case.

There were some suggestions from several Deputies, including Deputy O'Kennedy and Deputy Moore, of divergencies between members of the Government on foreign policy. It is a natural thing for an Opposition to suggest this, no doubt in order to try to create the impression of divergencies, but, of course they are not in fact there. The policies I have been putting forward to this House are those of the Government. There has been no dissent on them. One or other of the Deputies suggested that particular Ministers—several were named, I think—might have divergent views. Several of the people mentioned, far from having divergent views, were particularly warm in their expression of support for the views I am putting forward here.

I think the leg upon which the Deputies are attempting to stand and which is collapsing under them is the fact that in the referendum last year Labour and Fine Gael had different viewpoints to express at the time. It would have been a very poor referendum if there had not been that divergence of approach. However, the House will recall that immediately after that referendum—indeed, on the night the decision was announced— the Labour Party accepted the decision and recognised the logic of the decision and have shown such recognition in the level of representation they have put forward to the European Parliament and in the speeches that have been made there and at other meetings in Europe and at home.

The official view of the Labour Party was that it might be more beneficial for Ireland not to join the EEC but what is quite clear is that they and we agree that once we are in the EEC the only way to succeed is to be wholeheartedly in. There has been nothing of the attitude of the British Labour Party on the part of the Labour Party in this country. Far from abstaining or continuing carping criticism after the event, the Labour Party here immediately accepted the decision of the people. There is no divergence on this issue and this has been the attitude of the Labour Party from the very first moment that the results came out.

The Minister will recognise that this is evidence of a great conversion.

It is not a question of a conversion. The attitude of the Labour Party throughout was to accept not only the democratic decision of the people but the logic of that decision, that if the Irish people decided we were better in the EEC, then for those who had fears about the outcome or those who had hopes about the outcome, the logical thing for both to do was to go in wholeheartedly. It is that that lies behind the united and enthusiastic attitude of the Coalition Government to the problems and the prospects, both of which exist within the EEC and which we are now facing. It is important to stress that point lest some of the remarks by Deputies on the opposite side might linger in people's minds as having some foundation in reality.

Does the Minister not consider that the views expressed by some members of the present Government towards the EEC would not be such as to be consistent with enthusiastic membership of the EEC?

No. The views are ones that expressed doubts about aspects of the EEC not being helpful to this country and gave reasons for staying out, but once in it is quite clear that it is only by participating fully and by accepting a greater degree of democratic control through supra-nationality that the interests of this country can be preserved. It is that clear conviction, which, indeed, ante-dated the result of the referendum——

The capitalist club of Europe.

——in the minds of the members of the Labour Party which gives to the policy of this Government in regard to the EEC its particular solidarity.

The second point which was raised by the Opposition benches and which I want to take up was that the policies put forward today are not new. This, at one level, is true; at another level it is only half true. Of course this Government have not reversed major policies of the previous Government in any area. There is not that kind of divergence between us, but I think it will be clear to the House and to the public that a different emphasis is being placed by this Government on some aspects of policy and that the difference does not so much lead to a divergence of view in the House of the kind that is going to divide us as indicate that we have moved ahead and beyond the position of the previous Government, and I hope and believe the previous Government will come with us on this path.

For example, in relation to the question of détente in eastern Europe and the Helsinki Conference, I can recall some of the first questions I put down as a Member of the House in 1969 on this matter. I failed to arouse the slightest interest from the Minister opposite on this issue; indeed, his only concern seemed to be that we should not get too involved in this dangerous manoeuvre lest it might prejudice our claim to the territory of Northern Ireland. Anything less likely to be the outcome of the Helsinki Conference it is hard to imagine. Yet that fear, if it were a real fear, seemed to operate as a deterrent to any active participation by this country, which because of its unique diplomatic position in Europe as a member of the EEC now, and several years before as an applicant member of the EEC, but not a member of the military alliance, could have played an active part as Finland did, as Italy did, to another degree, in stimulating interest in the idea of such a conference and the working towards it. We had the opportunities there for diplomatic initiatives which could have redounded to the credit of this country. I pressed the matter in this House in 1969. I got absolutely no response, and since then the previous Government dragged their heels, went along with, but a long way behind the crowd, in regard to the Helsinki Conference.

It is not that there is total opposition between us on this issue. Though there is not much time left now or perhaps much opportunity for us to play any significant role there because we have come to office too late to do this, there is a difference in emphasis here because of the importance we attach to the role this country may be able to play.

Secondly, in regard to Europe, I think again there is a difference in emphasis. Although the previous Government expressed support for direct elections and although members of that Government spoke occasionally of the importance of a more democratic structure, I did not have the impression, and I do not have the impression, that the full weight of the opinion of that Government was behind the idea of moving towards a more supra-national, more democratic structure. I think the emphasis we have placed on this, as has emerged from my speech today, is a new element in it. Again, it is not a question of opposition, and I believe that the Deputies opposite will come along this road, but I think we are moving further and faster than them.

The Minister may say that but I do not think the fact of the Minister saying it makes it more accurate. The Minister knows well that nothing was said on this side when in Government other than towards the democratisation of the European institutions.

I agree that there may not be much difference between us in words but the difference is in the dynamism of action and the conviction that will lead to the shift in policy which exists now. I do not want to overstress this. It is perhaps no more than a difference in emphasis, or in timing, but there is a new element brought into the situation at this point. I do not believe it is such as to divide us. I hope it is not, but it is right and proper that a new Government should attach a different importance to things and put a different emphasis on them.

If the Minister implies that the previous Government were not——

The Deputy has already made his speech and he should allow the Minister to conclude without interruption. If the Deputy has a specific question to raise I am sure the Minister will be kind enough to reply to him at the conclusion of his speech.

Certainly. There is a third area in which there is a significant difference which can be demonstrated arithmetically. That is in relation to the question of development aid. Here the previous Government's performance is not exactly creditable to this country. The figures of aid have fluctuated up and down over the years and the figure for the year just ended, 1972-73, was, in money terms, fractionally higher than 1966-67, but in real terms below that year and, indeed, the following years. In 1972-73 the amount involved was £756,000, £100,000 less than in 1971-72. There was no evidence there of any real commitment in this sphere. All the previous Government did was to put into the Third Programme half a sentence saying they were in favour of developement aid. Having put that in they did nothing whatever about it except reduce the amount in 1972-73. There was no conviction behind this and no action reflecting the words used. Here there is a distinct and obvious difference. This Government are substantially increasing the amount involved in the current financial year. I am not at liberty to state the sum at this moment but it will become apparent on Wednesday next. That is being done as part of a planned programme to increase, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of GNP, the amount up to a respectable figure and it is not at the moment even a decimal fraction of a respectable figure. That is the position left by the previous Government.

In the area of getting something moving in the sphere of personal and voluntary service, in getting an agency established, this is something which had been hanging fire for 18 months under the previous Government until I came into the position of being able to examine it, get the file and get something done about it and very rapid action is taking place here. In this area too there is a significant difference. I am not making a propaganda point; I am stating facts which are there to be demonstrated by figures. I do not believe the previous Government were against development aid; I simply believe there was not there sufficient conviction about its importance, sufficient priority given to it. It did not rate high in the priorities of that Government. It rates high in the priorities of this Government. There, there is a divergence between us not of principle but some divergence of practice.

The Minister got the money to do the job all the same.

I did. That is what previous Ministers failed to extract from their Governments.

Deputy Moore complained that I paid no tribute to my predecessors in office. Perhaps that was an oversight. There was an implied tribute to one of my predecessors, the former Deputy Aiken. I referred to the importance of his initiative in securing the agreement on non-proliferation of nuclear weapons. I am glad to have the opportunity now of mentioning him by name for the work he did there. I think when Dr. Hillery came to office he found that the Department were not adequately equipped in personnel for the tasks that lay ahead of them. I know that under him the Department have been expanded. Unfortunately, the lag was so great that even the efforts he made have still left them inadequately equipped for their tasks but a good deal was done in his time to this effect. My immediate predecessor, the then Deputy Brian Lenihan, was not in office long enough for him to achieve anything. That is no reflection on him. He was appointed in December and the election was called at the end of January. I know he had turned his attention to a number of problems in that period and had he been given longer in office he would, I am sure, have achieved a good deal. I do not wish in any way to suggest that nothing at all has happened in the sphere of foreign affairs until this Government came into office. That is not by any means the case. I know I am building now on foundations made by previous Governments, starting in 1922 with the first Government when, indeed, my father was Minister for External Affairs.

It was suggested by Deputy O'Kennedy that the meeting of ambassadors I held was not new, that it was in the process of arrangement by the previous Government. Previous meetings have been held. In 1945 a meeting was held on the work and organisation of the foreign service. In 1961 there was an economic conference on foreign earnings. There have also been three meetings during the EEC negotiations in Paris and Brussels of our ambassadors to the EEC and other applicant countries in relation to the negotiations. What, however, had not happened at any time under the previous Government, in any of their periods in office, was a general conference of all our ambassadors called for the purpose of discussing policy. That is an innovation. I believe it to have been a useful one. The fruits of that conference can be found in what I had to say to this House today. As regards the suggestion that this had already been arranged, or that such a meeting was contemplated, this I think is not correct. My information is that my predecessor had agreed that there should be a further conference of ambassadors in Europe in relation to the EEC but it had not been proposed, and I can find no trace of a suggestion in the Department, that there should be a general conference on general foreign policy.

I have been accused of going too far too fast. Deputy O'Kennedy said it was not realistic for us to adopt such an embracing and effective policy all over the world. Deputy Moore said we were too ambitious and seemed to have the grandiose idea that we are a major European power. If any words I have used have misled the House into thinking I have any such beliefs let me disillusion the House. What I do believe is that we now find ourselves in a new situation with regard to foreign policy making demands upon us and giving us opportunities of service also which have not been available before. This struck me forcibly and immediately at the very first meeting I attended of the Foreign Ministers of the nine member countries when I found myself, less than 48 hours after becoming a Minister, faced with an agenda covering matters such as recognition of North Korea, the problems of aid to North Vietnam, the problems of Bangladesh and, at a following meeting, when we were dealing with a trade agreement with Uruguay. When I found that I was expected to have a view and a policy and was invited to express this view on aspects of policy which hitherto this country had not been called upon to have a policy on, it became clear to me that we are moving into a new world altogether. It was quite possible for this country to ignore the existence of North Korea and North Vietnam if it wished until 1st January last. We were not called on to make statements about these matters and we could get away with not doing so. We now find ourselves members of a Community of nine countries, which is one of the great world groupings, which has influence and a role to play, I hope a constructive one, throughout the world. At these meetings Ireland must play its part. It must have a cogent, well informed view; it must be able to put policy forward sensibly and to concert with the other countries in joint policy. I am not prepared to appear at these meetings and to behave like somebody with a bad hand of bridge who must say "pass" all the time. Such an attitude would not be to the credit of this country. Indeed, if we are to become effective in the EEC and if we are to get anything out of it, we must put something into it. Unless we are seen to be able to contribute to its work in spheres like this, we will not be taken seriously and will not benefit from membership. This is not a question of being ambitious or of trying to throw one's weight around the world. It is a question of trying now to do the minimum necessary to be taken seriously, to be respected, and to gain for this country within the EEC the benefits that we believe can be gained and to be seen to be able and willing to make a contribution to the Community.

It has happened that the change of Government has coincided with this situation. I am sure that, had the previous Government been returned to office, the Ministers concerned would have become conscious of this problem very quickly, that they would have had to react by reconsidering the whole question of our foreign policy and the adequacy of our foreign service as at present constituted. It has fallen to me to be hit by this situation and to respond to it, but to suggest that I wish to go too far too quickly or that I have grandiose ideas is simply to misconceive the position. I am glad that such criticism has enabled me to bring home to some extent to the House and to the country what a new situation we are in and how vital it is that we be equiped adequately to cope with it.

Well said.

There was criticism of us, also, to the effect that we acted too quickly. It is significant that a Government which for a number of years past has been criticised for acting slowly should immediately choose to criticise us for acting quickly. This proves something. I was asked how could this Government's view on the White Paper be formed so quickly as to be presented to the British Government. It is a question of how Governments work. One Government works in one way and the other in another way.

One did not work at all.

That is possible also. We had no choice in regard to the White Paper.

The Minister has said that the policy was formulated within hours.

May I explain how this arose and emphasise what happened? When the election was called I was surprised. I had calculated that an election was quite probable to be called in January. I had calculated that by the time we came to that date at the end of January it was then so late that an election would leave the formation of a Government to a date impinging immediately on the period of the preparation of the White Paper when it would be necessary for a Government here to put forward their views to the British Government. I thought we had passed the date beyond when a responsible Taoiseach could call an election in those circumstances, so I reckoned that perhaps there would not be an election called. When the election was called I foresaw a danger and I was right.

The fact was that the British Government, having warned us in January last —this is something that was known to the Opposition as well as to the Government—that a decision on the White Paper would be taken in the period beginning the 15th March and that it would have to be announced before the 27th, the anniversary of direct rule, it was vital to have in being a Government capable of expressing a view. It did not seem to me that a responsible Taoiseach could call an election that might prejudice that, but that is what happened, and as a result of the election we were formed as a Government at 6.10 p.m. on the 14th March. At about 9 p.m. we met as a Government at Aras an Uachtaráin. We were told then that it was probable that the British Government would be meeting and making a decision within 48 hours. Should we have said simply "It is too late to do anything" and have gone home to bed? Is that the suggestion from the Opposition who had precipitated the situation by timing the election so badly?

In a panic.

Our position was that we considered that night what our line should be. Having done that, it was necessary to draft something and I prepared a preliminary draft document in the early hours of the morning. The necessary steps were taken for a drafting committee and for the Cabinet to meet next morning. The document was prepared, transmitted and received by the British Government during the course of their meeting that morning and in time, I understand from my subsequent contacts, to be taken fully into consideration and to influence the shaping of the White Paper. To my mind that is good and effective Government. It is not irresponsible Government. We retrieved the damage that might so easily have been done because of the date on which the election was called. In view of the criticisms from the other side of the House I am moved to wonder as to what would have had happened had Fianna Fáil returned to power. What chance would there have been that the views of the Irish people would ever have reached the British Government before the White Paper was drafted?

Were the contents of that document made public?

Therefore, how do we know that they differed in substance from what had been put forward already?

I am not suggesting that they differed from the views of the previous Government. I am only stating that we put forward our views at the point when we had the full information on the background and when the White Paper was about to be drawn up. That would not have happened had we not acted so quickly. I do not think this could be described as indecent haste on our part.

I regret very much my absence momentarily from the House during Deputy Burke's speech, which I understand was an extremely effective speech but which contained many criticisms —I will not say cogent criticisms—of the Government. Deputy Burke referred to the "indecent haste" of my visit to London. That visit took place because it seemed to me that it would give the opportunity to reinforce and develop what we had said and that if in discussion we could highlight any point or convince by argument on a point which had not been so convincing in its expression on paper, we might even at that late stage achieve some modification of what had been drawn up by the British Cabinet that morning. The visit was not made in indecent haste but with appropriate speed and the encounter was a useful one.

So much, then for the accusation that we have been working too fast. I know it is a criticism that can be levied at almost every Minister. We have been working fast and have done more in weeks than what the previous Government did in months or, perhaps, in years. That is a criticism that we are prepared to meet and we hope that this view will continue to be expressed on the other side of the House. The public will know what to make of it.

Deputy O'Kennedy suggested that there was some contradiction in the attitude I expressed in relation to the use of the veto in the EEC. Perhaps my expression in this regard was not sufficiently clear. The point is that we believe that the long term interests of this country are served better by a super-national community than by one of nation states operating vetoes. Some of the major powers will continue to use vetoes for their benefit, and so long as that situation persists we will not be able to move rapidly towards a more supra-national arrangement which will be slow in being achieved. During that period it will be necessary for us also to have a veto and to use it in order to hold our own. It may be the case, and is the case sometimes, that in order to achieve results it is necessary for a mild threat of veto to come from several parties on different issues, out of which usually emerges a very constructive package deal. This is the curious way that diplomacy is carried on. We must have our veto and we must be prepared to use it when necessary, either for the constructive purpose of a package deal or if a vital national interest is at stake, in order to reject a proposal that would damage the real interest of this country.

However, I do not believe that is the best arrangement for this country. I would like to see everybody move away from it towards a more supra-national situation. I am glad that, in raising the point, Deputy O'Kennedy has given me the opportunity of clarifying my thought in this regard.

A number of aspects of EEC policy were raised by different speakers. Deputy Collins referred to the common agricultural policy and to regional and social policy. Deputy O'Brien also referred to the extreme importance of EEC regional policy. I mentioned these three areas of policy as being of much importance to us. We are concentrating our efforts in these spheres. So far as the common agricultural policy is concerned, we are determined that it shall be maintained in its present form unless and until someone suggests another kind of agricultural policy that will be as beneficial to, and will offer the same guarantees to, the farmers of this country. That is a major aim of the policies of this Government, as it was of the previous Government or as it would be of any Irish Government. We know that issues may arise in the forthcoming negotiations with the US on this matter and we shall be vigilant in ensuring that nothing happens that would be to the detriment of this country.

We are glad that an Irishman has the honour of formulating social policy in the EEC. I need not tell the House that this Government will work in close collaboration with him. Of course, Dr. Hillery was formerly a Minister in a Fianna Fáil Government, but that will in no way come between us. I have had several occasions to speak with him and I know he will wish to work closely with the Government in the manner appropriate to a Commissioner, maintaining his independent position but retaining contacts with his own country. He will be able to explain to his fellow-Commissioners why particular issues are sensitive to the country of which he is a national. We will retain a close and friendly relationship with him and I know it will be a constructive and fruitful one. We are glad he is the person concerned with social policy because inevitably the policy emerging from his thoughts is bound to take account, even subconsciously, of the kind of problems arising in this country. He will have our full support in that. We regard the area of social policy as one of immense importance. It will not be possible for him, or for any Commissioner at this time, to develop a social policy on a scale and along lines sufficiently extensive to cover the real needs of this country but a great step forward can be made if social policy is brought to the forefront of Community thinking, as it has been by the Summit decision and it will be by the proposals being put forward by Commissioner Hillery.

The matter of regional policy was raised by Deputy Collins, Deputy Esmonde and Deputy O'Brien. This is an area of immense importance to us. It is an area in which, in a sense, we cannot lose because, as Commissioner Thomson has pointed out, by any or all criteria Ireland stands out as part of the Community that is particularly in need of such a regional policy and will benefit greatly from it. At the same time, in examining the proposals put forward by Commissioner Thomson, we will be concerned to ensure that the criteria applied in determining which parts of the Community are most in need, will be objective and valid criteria.

We do not need any special pleading for this country. All we need is to ensure that only objective criteria are applied which really distinguish those parts of the Community that are in need from the parts that are not in need. We will not be prepared to accept that in this area, as has to some degree been the case in relation to State aid, political considerations will supervene and take precedence over the economic realities. As far as we are concerned, only those parts of the Community that really need regional policy should benefit from it. That will be our policy and we will pursue it in the months ahead.

Regional policy offers great prospects for this country but only if the scale of the funds available are adequate. I know that Commissioner Thomson, who comes from Scotland, a country that has regional policy problems, will be concerned to achieve an adequate scale of financing. He will have the fullest support of this country.

Deputy Collins and Deputy Esmonde raised the question of the adequacy of information about the EEC for Deputies and for members of the European Parliament. I am very concerned about this. It is important that Deputies, especially those who will be involved in the work of the European Parliament, should have the fullest information. I have had occasion to discuss this matter at some length with one of the Deputies in the European Parliament and I am considering with members of the staff of my Department how best the needs of the members of the European Parliament can be met.

We are arranging the establishment of the EEC Committee of the House. As I said earlier today. I had hoped to discuss the matter with Deputy O'Kennedy before the debate ended but, as the debate will end tonight rather than tomorrow, I shall discuss the matter with him after the debate. The Opposition can be assured of the fullest co-operation of the Government with regard to this matter. I will recommend to the Government that whatever resources of personnel are needed by the EEC Committee and by the members of the European Parliament will be available. We will try to secure that any officers seconded from this or other Departments will be highly skilled and specialised and able to assist the Committee and members of the European Parliament. I am sufficiently close to Opposition still to recall the frustration of inadequate information. It is fresh enough in my mind and Deputies can be assured that every assistance will be given to the Opposition in this matter.

With regard to Eastern Europe, I should make it clear, lest some of the remarks from the other side of the House should raise any doubts in people's minds, that the Government have taken no decisions on the question of diplomatic relations there. I made this clear in speaking and have said it was something the Government are going to review in the immediate future. I said, however, that the logic of our situation with regard to the whole question of world peace, to any role we can play in regard to it, and the requirements of this country with regard to the development of trade, point towards the need for closer relations with countries in Eastern Europe. The logic of that is evident and the Government will consider the logical implications of it in the immediate future.

I found Deputy Moore's remarks on this somewhat puzzling. He thought we were considering opening an embassy in Moscow before opening one in Luxembourg. That is not correct; our intentions are the other way round. In fact, as I understand it, it was the previous Government that brought the matter of an embassy in Moscow to an advanced stage but deferred opening an embassy in Luxembourg. It was deferred for a period by a decision of the Minister for Finance in the previous Government. If Deputy Moore's remarks should be directed against anyone, they should be directed against the previous Government.

He was odd man out.

Will there be some difficulties with the Minister for Finance when the logic of the position is reviewed by the Government?

That remains to be seen.

Unless, of course, the Minister has changed his views.

Deputy Moore made a reference to Mr. de Valera in the League of Nations. On page 25 of a document entitled Peace and War— Speeches by Mr. de Valera on International Affairs, with regard to the Soviet Union, Mr. de Valera stated:

I represent a country which, if you consider its political and religious ideals is as far apart as the poles from Soviet Russia;

I should point out he meant "poles" with a small p; I am not suggesting Mr. de Valera's knowledge of geography was limited——

——but I would be willing to take the responsibility of saying openly and frankly here that I would support and vote for the entry of Russia into the League on account of the considerations I have mentioned.

The considerations were the size and importance of the Soviet Union in world affairs. He went on to criticise the absence of religious freedom in the Soviet Union and I think this is something with which everyone in the House would agree. I am not sure of the point Deputy Moore was making but I do not think he can quote the authority of the president of the Executive Council at that time for a proposition that relations with the Soviet Union are a bad thing.

His reply was conditional.

No. It was unconditional. He went on to say: "I admit that I should be much happier if there were religious freedom". It was unconditional acceptance despite his concern about religious freedom.

We would be happier also.

If it is only a question of being happy that is no problem. We can all be happy together.

Is it the Minister's intention to have it discussed in the House as to whether it would be an appropriate decision?

My understanding of what we were told by the previous Government is that it would be inappropriate to have such discussion prior to the decision.

Members of the present Government held the view that this is how it should be done. They are the Government now.

I will look into the question and if I find the previous Government were right in this and that their view was in accordance with constitutional practice and procedure, I trust the Deputy will not fault me for following the view they expressed at that time.

It is the Government who order the Business of the House. Some members of the Government suggested this is how it should be done.

If we find that the view expressed in this instance—and this instance alone—was correct, I am sure the Deputy will not fault us for following it.

The Minister is very courteous and I do not wish to be discourteous to him, but before he moves away from Eastern Europe I should like to say that in his speech he connected the opening of diplomatic relations with Eastern Europe with trade with the various countries mentioned. Seeing that the EEC are trade conscious, I do not see why there is such an urgent necessity for embassies unless the countries themselves make it sine qua non——

I understand the position here is that, despite the common commercial policy of the European Community, member countries have not been willing so far to subsume their trade relations with Eastern European countries within the common commercial policy, and they continue to have direct relationships and negotiations on these matters. I trust I am correct in this. It is my understanding of the situation. So long as that practice persists, we, too, will have to make some arrangements of our own, as other countries have done, such as Italy.

Like West Germany.

It is true that all the members of the Community have such trade relationships.

I want now to come to the question of apartheid. It was raised by Deputy O'Brien. The abhorrence that is universally felt here at this practice is something I do not need to stress. There is something uniquely objectionable about a practice that condemns a person for qualities he has inherited and that have nothing to do with his personality, his personal quality, his personal ability. This attack on human rights is something we think we cannot accept. Then the question arises as to how we can most effectively express this abhorrence and whether any particular course of action we take will help or hinder. On that, there are legitimate divergences of views among people who share the basic abhorrence of the concept. I will not say more than that because I made the position of the Government on this matter clear in my opening remarks.

Deputy Esmonde accused me of not referring to Australia. I did not say much about Australia but I would refer him to a reference to it in page 32 and to Australasia in page 11. He was correct basically in saying I had not said much on the subject of Australia. I did not wish to detain the House by a completely exhaustive analysis of our relations with countries throughout the world, but now that Deputy Esmonde has raised it, I should like to say, first of all, that we are particularly interested in Australia at the moment. The new Australian Government have been pursuing a completely different foreign policy to that of the old one. It must be said that the degree of divergence there is a good deal greater than that between ourselves and the Opposition here. Some of their decisions are ones that we would not necessarily follow. Nonetheless, it is naturally of interest to us to see changes in direction of foreign policy. It was very interested to read an account of all these changes which the Australian Ambassador was good enough to furnish me with. I am sure we have something to learn from some aspects of this.

I also feel that Australia has a relevance to us in another sphere at the moment, a topical sphere. It is the whole question of the development of the Council of Ireland and the kind of constitutional evolution one can foresee for this country. The Australian Constitution was so constructed and has developed in such a way that it tends to have a certain dynamic element built into it. Perhaps there is something we can learn from this. It is a matter in which I have a particular interest, which I am following up.

On the question of a double tax agreement with Australia, this is a question on which we have expressed our interest to the Australian Government and I hope it will be possible to make some progress. Certainly we have done our best to get something moving in this particular area.

I am glad to hear it.

On the Council of Europe, I was asked by Deputy Moore to expand a little on my opening remarks. We regard it is particularly important because I would be fearful lest the EEC would go ahead on its own at a pace and in a manner and in such an exclusive way as to prove in respect of Western Europe a somewhat divisive rather than as a uniting force. Of course it is right that the EEC should develop further and faster than the rest of the Continent. That is why we and the other eight countries have come together—because we were prepared to go further and faster than the other countries. However, it is very important that this progress should be carried out as much as possible in harmoney with the other countries in the Council of Europe. The Council of Europe provides a unique forum for us to try to achieve that. I am not happy that sufficient attention is paid to this within the EEC. Indeed I was dismayed and disturbed to find that the meeting of the Council of Ministers of the Council of Europe fixed for next week has been blocked out by a meeting of the EEC Council of Ministers. While countries which have two foreign ministers, or one and a substitute, or a foreign minister and a trade minister, can go to both, this country, being unhappily dependent on my sole efforts, and I not having the full virtue of bilocation, cannot attend both.

Not far from it.

It seems to me that it is quite inappropriate that the Council of Ministers of the Council of Europe should be treated in this way. This is something that was arranged under the previous Government and, apparently, agreed to by a previous Minister for Foreign Affairs. There is nothing I can do about it. I do not think he should have agreed to it and I do not propose to allow the situation to persist where I am forced to choose between the two. In view of the particular importance of some items on the agenda of the Council of Ministers of the EEC I shall have to attend it. I have asked the Attorney General to attend at the meeting of the Council of Europe to represent the Government. There are certain things on the agenda of particular interest to him.

I say all this simply to emphasise to Deputy Moore that I am genuinely concerned about the Council of Europe and I will try to ensure that this kind of thing does not happen again and that this Council becomes as effective as possible a forum for debate between the Eight and the Nine and the two groups of Western Europe. Moreover I will press to have certain functions devolved to the Council of Europe, where they concern matters too broad for the EEC itself and which really relate to the whole of Western Europe. I can assure Deputy Moore of my concern for that and I hope I will be able to attend the next Ministerial meeting of the Council of Europe. Certainly I will ensure that there will not be another clash.

I would like to inform the Minister that on the last occasion I attended a meeting of the Council of Europe in my capacity as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education and as deputy for the Minister for Foreign Affairs, on that occasion there was a matter of significant interest to me at that meeting, namely, the European Youth Foundation, for discussion. For that reason it was equally appropriate for me to attend just as it might be for the Attorney General on this occasion. I would not like the Minister to feel that the former Government felt that the Minister for Foreign Affairs did not think it worth his while to attend.

I am not suggesting that at all. I do not want to be misunderstood. I just hold that he should not have agreed in the Council of Ministers of the EEC to have the two meetings clashing. I quite appreciate that once there is a clash you have to decide on how best to dispose your forces.

I am not quite sure if the former Government would have been aware of the possibility of this clash.

That is possibly so. It may well be that I am at fault here. It may well be that this decision was taken before this country joined the EEC. Perhaps I am unfair in that criticism but I have the impression that, as far as the present meeting is concerned it was decided this year and that the previous Government must have gone along with it.

It was by agreement with all the Ministers of the Council of Europe and presumably none of them would have been aware of the possibility of a clash when they agreed to it.

My understanding is that the Council of Ministers of the EEC decided to hold its meeting on the same day and as the same people are involved they clearly knew that they were meant to be elsewhere. Nonetheless they so decided and our Minister, if he was present, since the decision was taken on 1st January, went along with it. Perhaps it was taken earlier and I do not want to be unfair to any member of the previour Government in case my dates are wrong.

Deputy Burke, in his speech, raised the question of the environment and was concerned that I had not said more about it. I think that is a fair comment. It is not indeed that we do not attach importance to it. I did mention that I thought it was more appropriate to the Council of Europe than to the EEC. This is something which ultimately is a matter for the world as a whole. There are certain matters which transcend any possible control by individual countries or regional groups. It is that which is forcing the world bit by bit to move towards having decisions taken at a higher level than the nation state.

As far as the environment is concerned, and certain other things such as perhaps control of multi-national companies, it may well be that only a world-wide system of decision making can cope with these particular problems. Even the Council of Europe cannot cope with the problem of pollution in the Atlantic if the pollution comes from somewhere on the other side. Given the way that the Gulf Stream flows that is more than likely. Here we have a problem which, while within the European context is best handled by the Council of Europe, would also have to be looked at on a larger level altogether. I share Deputy Burke's concern about this.

Deputy Burke also mentioned the Oslo Convention on dumping in the sea. We cannot ratify this until certain legislation is introduced in this House by the Minister for Transport and Power. That is something we are concerned about. The job of the Department of Foreign Affairs is to ratify things when our law permits us to do so.

We are concerned always to ensure that we ratify as soon as possible and we press other Departments to introduce the necessary legislation. At times there are genuine obstacles to that legislation being introduced. It is not simply through dilatoriness, although that may be the case in some instances. There are often genuine reasons why it cannot be done quickly, and we just have to bide our time and wait until we are in a position to ratify. I understand that you cannot ratify something if you are not in fact in a position to enforce it and to carry out your obligations.

On the question of development aid, I am glad of the support of this House on this point, and there has been that support. Deputy Esmonde referred to the question of having some organisation to arrange for more Irish people to serve abroad and this is what I was referring to at the end of my opening speech on the question of an agency to organise personal service abroad. I am with him entirely on that and I hope, as I said earlier, that this agency will be operating fairly soon.

On the question of Northern Ireland, Deputy Moore first of all said it was not proper to the Department of Foreign Affairs, and then he criticised me for talking of matters other than Northern Ireland. The logic of this, I am afraid, escapes me in a way.

That is not quite true, of course. I criticised the Minister's failure to deal at length with Northern Ireland. He gave two pages to it. I suggested that a separate Department would be better.

I understood the Deputy to be critical of me for talking at such length on other matters although in fact I gathered from another thing he said that the other matters seemed to be much more appropriate to me than Northern Ireland. In any event, the fact about Northern Ireland is that it could not be dealt with at length in this debate within the rules of order as, indeed, the Deputy found from the Chair when he tried to raise it. His criticism of me for not dealing with it at length was unfair to that extent. Under other circumstances I would have dealt with it at much greater length. It was debated yesterday very fully and it was not possible, therefore, for me to do more than mention it to the extent appropriate to show that it is one of the five major issues with which we are concerned.

The Deputy also criticised me for not giving it first priority; but I gave it second priority to one thing only— world peace, pointing out that, if we fail to maintain world peace and have a nuclear war there will not be any Northern Ireland problem. In all logic and common sense, world peace must come first. After that, assuming that we have peace, that we do not have a nuclear war and that we are all still alive, to us next comes Northern Ireland, and I placed it in that context.

Peace is indivisible so you would have it in the North as well as in North Africa.

I do not think so. You could have a lack of peace in the North and the world would survive but, if we have a nuclear war and we are all wiped out, what happens to the North becomes irrelevant. I am sorry, but that is the logic of the situation. In setting out my points in logical order, as I thought, I had to be guided by that.

It is part of the national territory. It is not foreign.

I pointed that out to the Minister. Tell your Minister that.

It is not foreign.

Deputy Esmonde has raised a point which reminds me of something Deputy Moore said here. He raised the question of whether, in fact, there should be a separate Department of Northern Ireland Affairs and whether the Department of Foreign Affairs should deal with it at all. He will recall, however, that in my speech I mentioned, as the second objective of our foreign policy, pursuing relations with the United Kingdom Government to achieve the purpose of resolving, even on a provisional and open-ended basis, the Northern Ireland problem. In this Department we deal with the United Kingdom Government and, if anybody thinks we can resolve the Northern Ireland problem without talking to them, he is an optimist. To that extent it is the function of this Department. The overall responsibility for Northern Ireland policy rests, of course, with the Taoiseach.

And rightly so.

My functions are connected with those aspects of Northern Ireland policy which relate to relations with Great Britain, with the United Kingdom Government, and that is what I set out here. We are not in disagreement on this point. I think I have clarified that.

There is no question about that.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Esmonde made a significant statement about part of the national territory. There are some Members of his party who questioned that.

Do not talk nonsense.

Name them.

(Interruptions.)

There is only one unit to be recognised and that is the entirety of one island.

We had a full debate on this matter yesterday when we debated the White Paper on Northern Ireland. We cannot have a rehash of that debate. The Minister to conclude.

Indeed. Deputy Briscoe stressed the need for more contacts with politicians abroad, especially to explain about Northern Ireland. I entirely agree and I think that what he said about talking to them personally was right. He mentioned sending them information afterwards and he said not to send them too much "bumf". He was right in stressing the importance of personal contacts. When one meets politicians from abroad they are more than willing to listen to one's personal assessment of the situation but, if you send them documents to read, I doubt that they will read them. Deputy Briscoe is perfectly correct, and none of us should miss any opportunity of trying to explain to politicians in other countries the Northern Ireland problem in all its complexities. They sometimes get a very distorted and over-simplified view.

At times one wonders whether, in fact, any message gets abroad except that which, on the one hand, the British Government naturally put forward representing their own view and, on the other hand, that which the IRA put forward. It is our job to ensure that the viewpoint of the Irish Government, representing the people of this State, is also put forward adequately and fully, both by direct contact with politicians and others, and through our information services. That is the objective which I have set myself, and I entirely agree with Deputy Briscoe about the importance of personal contact.

Deputy Briscoe warned of the need for caution with respect to visits to the North, and he referred to the question of someone in the North allegedly suffering as a result of having been named in connection with my visit. Let me again stress to this House that from the beginning I have made it clear that I will never make any statements about whom I see in Northern Ireland. If people who see me wish it to be known that they have seen me, and if that is correct, I am quite willing to accept the fact and to confirm it subsequently. I take the point there, but the suggestion which was made yesterday that I have ever named anybody and that he has suffered accordingly I absolutely reject. The first principle of any involvement in talking to members of the community there at present is that one must adopt that form of discretion.

We are all Irishmen.

On the question of the staff of the Department I stressed the need for strengthening the staff and this has been generally agreed. The point was made that the staff was strengthened by the previous Government. This is certainly true but the backlog was so great at the end of the 1960s that we still have a considerable problem and considerable leeway to make up.

Deputy Burke and Deputy Brugha stressed the need in establishing embassies to have very clearcut criteria. Deputy Burke referred to the need for economic criteria and Deputy Brugha to the need for rigid criteria. They were stressing the point that, once you open an embassy somewhere, it is very hard to close it. I am absolutely clear on this and, indeed, Deputies will recall that, in referring to the particular problems we face in informing ourselves about the issues involved in the EEC Association Agreements and other agreements with countries in Africa, I stressed the unwisdom of our opening embassies in places because we need this information at a particular time to play our part in the Presidency of the Council of Ministers, and suggested that that might best be met by an official moving around as a roving ambassador. I do not think we should open embassies anywhere where we are not certain that they will be needed continuously thereafter because of the volume of our trade relationships, the nature of our political relationships, and the importance of our relationship with the countries themselves.

The Minister will kill one roving ambassador if he has him going round the French African territories. We would need more than one having regard to the climate.

It may not be necessary for him to visit all of these former French territories or the associated countries. We will need some special contact with them to understand their problems fully in this period. I do not think the answer to that lies in opening embassies. I think we are all in agreement on this point.

I did not suggest that. Perhaps we could have two roving ambassadors.

I am not prepared to enter into bidding on the question of how many there should be. There was some suggestion from some quarter of the House that one could overdo this and build up too much, and that we must not get too big for our boots. Let us recall that Denmark, a country whose total population is no bigger than that of the island of Ireland has a foreign service which, if expressed in terms of numbers and staff and numbers of embassies, is more than double what we have. The Danes are known to be astute people who do not waste money where it is not needed. We must accept that the scale of our diplomatic activity is too small for what we are now involved in. I think that is the general sense of the debate in the House despite some qualms expressed by some people.

On the need to expand the information services there was agreement. Deputy Brugha at one moment seemed to be suggesting that one could actually correct a misstatement on TV but I think what he had in mind—as I understood from what he said subsequently—was that if one saw something wrongly stated on TV one could at least inform the television people so that they would not do it again. I do not think he is so sanguine as to think they would issue a correction the next day. The trouble about television is that that cannot be done.

No. I think it is necessary in relation to the things I have heard being said on television stations across the world. If any embassy of ours were to write to the director of that station drawing attention to it would help to correct the mistake.

Yes, I take that point. I wanted to clarify the matter in my mind because at first there was some ambiguity. I agree with that and I think we should be sufficiently well equipped as far as information services are concerned to try to correct false impressions where they exist. Very often there are just not the resources to do this and we are letting our case go by default. That cannot be allowed to continue. This is not a question of propaganda. As far as I am concerned the information service in my Department will never engage in propaganda wars of any kind. It will simply be concerned that the facts of the situation as objectively established should be known and should not be distorted.

Reference was made by one Deputy to the fact that the previous Government had appointed an information officer to the rank of Assistant Secretary to review the information service at home and abroad. I think this is a reference to an appointment in the Taoiseach's office and which has, in fact, been paralled by the appointment of Mr. Muiris MacConghaill to the post of director of the Information Bureau. The question was asked as to how one integrates the information staffs. I think what is at issue here is the question of the character and quality of co-operation between the information service in my Department and the Government Information Bureau. That is something I am concerned about but I am very happy with the relationship that now exists and has been established. I can assure the House there will be the closest and warmest co-operation there between the two. It is only if that exists and is really effective that you can really get the best out of both of these operations because there is a close interaction between them.

This debate has been shorter perhaps, than some people anticipated because of the fact that Northern Ireland was precluded from it by the decision of the Opposition, very properly and understandably, to seek a debate on the White Paper yesterday. It has, however, been a constructive debate and a very wide ranging one despite the short space of time involved. I think we have covered a lot of ground together. I think there is between us a consensus. Naturally there are points on which we each have a slightly different political viewpoint. There would be no point in having a Government and an Opposition if we did not manage to have a divergence of emphasis on certain points but I think we have in this country a basic agreement on how the interests of Ireland are best served in the external forum, with perhaps a lot more agreement than there is about how they are best served at home.

I believe, therefore, that it should be possible for us to proceed in a manner which would commend itself generally to the feeling of this House and I would like to feel that in the work I will be doing I would be bringing the House with me and have its support as I think I have its goodwill at this stage. I thank the House for the courtesy and constructive character of the debate.

I would like to say, in conclusion, that it is a particular honour for me to be in the position I am in as this is the first time I am speaking here on the Estimate for my Department. It has a particular significance for me as my father was the first Minister for External Affairs of this country at the time the Constitution came into effect, at the end of 1922, and, indeed, for some months before that. It is a particular pleasure for me to find myself in this post. I know how fortunate I am to find myself in this position because of the quality of this Department and its staff. Indeed, it is to the credit of previous Governments that the Department of Foreign Affairs are, if inadequately equipped in terms of volume of resources, so well equipped in terms of the quality of the people there. I hope the work I will do will be worthy of them and worthy of this country and that I will be able, for whatever period I am in this office, to serve the country. I shall certainly do my utmost to do so.

Vote put and agreed to.
Top
Share