On the last occasion I was referring to repairs necessary to certain national schools in my constituency. I should like to draw the attention of the Parliamentary Secretary to the position in Swinford boys' national school. This school is in urgent need of repair and the pupils are compelled to attend school in two different locations. Will the Parliamentary Secretary ensure that the repairs are carried out this summer?
Committee on Finance. - Vote 8: Public Works and Buildings (Resumed).
Debate resumed on the following motion:
That a sum not exceeding £17,067,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March. 1974, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of Public Works; for expenditure in respect of public buildings; for the maintenance of certain parks and public works; for the execution and maintenance of drainage and other engineering works; for expenditure arising from damage to the property of External Governments; and for payment of certain grants-in-aid.
—(Minister for Local Government.)
About what school is the Deputy talking?
About Swinford boys' national school. Like other speakers, I am delighted that the building programme for the provision of special schools for mentally handicapped children is being continued and I should like now to pay a special tribute to the Mayo branch of the Parents and Friends of Mentally Handicapped Children Association for their magnificent and tireless work in the interests of these children. As a result of their efforts there are two schools functioning in Mayo and a third is being built. A hostel has been opened in Ballina for pupils who would otherwise have to attend these schools from long distances. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary would consider increasing the allocation next year. No right-thinking person would object to paying extra taxes to further this magnificent work.
The Parliamentary Secretary said he intends to hold an architectural competition for the design of the post office in Tipperary. I would ask him to ensure that one of the conditions of the competition will be the use of Irish materials only. We do not want a repetition of what happened some years ago when a similar building was designed for Galway.
Since I was elected to Mayo County Council I have consistently objected to the county council having to pay maintenance for the upkeep of the courthouse and I should like to add my protest here now to that of other speakers on this subject.
Like earlier speakers, too, I should like to stress the need for major drainage works in the west. A very large percentage are employed on the land there; in Mayo it is over 50 per cent as compared with the national average of 26 per cent. That in itself means that it is essential that the maximum is obtained from the land. This cannot be achieved when vast areas are covered with flood water. Some months ago the Parliamentary Secretary attended a meeting at Ballaghaderreen to which farmers from that area, from Kilmovee, Charlestown and Ballyhaunis area, also came. The urgent necessity for draining the river Lurg was stressed to the Parliamentary Secretary at that meeting. This river is holding up drainage on a number of land project schemes and rural improvement schemes. I would also draw his attention to the drainage of the Palmerstown river in the Killala area.
I suggest that the Parliamentary Secretary, in consultation with the Department of Local Government, could perhaps, arrange that a special allocation of money be given to counties with a drainage problem so that local improvements schemes can be carried out. Such schemes would mean that a number of the smaller drainage projects could be proceeded with and would help to alleviate the problems in many areas.
There will always be a need, particularly in the west, for the arterial drainage scheme. I suggest that when the committee are reporting on the cost analysis they take into account the very high prices now being paid, especially in the west, for land. In so far as maintenance work is concerned I urge the Parliamentary Secretary to do as much maintenance work as possible by manual labour. I realise that it is impossible to do all this work in this manner but people in the west have pointed out to me the number of machines that are being used on relatively small schemes.
I am glad to see that the people of Enniscrone can look forward to having the coast erosion problem there solved next year. While this area is not in my constituency I am aware of the fears of the people there. There are notices on this road to stop heavy traffic passing through. I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to inform me of the position with regard to the application, submitted by Mayo County Council some time ago, for a coastal protection scheme at Kilcummin. The Parliamentary Secretary will be asked this question when he makes a visit to the area in the near future. The six houses there were flooded a number of years ago from the front and the back. At certain stages of the tide and wind this will always occur unless the scheme asked for by Mayo County Council is carried out.
A matter which has come to my notice over the years in my capacity as an engineer, and I say this without meaning to disparage the chairman or the commissioners, is the frustration that engineers and architects in the Board of Works experience because they can never hope to achieve the top job there. This is a common theme at conferences and is something that may not have been drawn to the attention of the Parliamentary Secretary. I do not know if anything can be done about this matter but I feel that it is deserving of consideration.
I should like to pay my own tribute, and say a special thanks, to the staff of the Board of Works with whom I have had personal contact. Their courtesy and efficiency were of assistance to me professionally, and politically.
At the outset I should like to congratulate Deputy Kenny on his appointment as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance. I believe that he is the right man in the right place. In dealing with this Estimate I may have some hard words to say but they will not refer to him. I heard Deputy Lemass state that the Estimate was prepared by him and only a few minor changes were made by Deputy Kenny. Speaking as a west of Ireland Deputy, I believe that we have not got our priorities right. Every western Deputy who has spoken on this Estimate has referred to drainage. If we look at the £17 million provided there is little for drainage in the west.
Most of the money in this Estimate for drainage appears to be concentrated in the east and south. That is a disappointment to me, and I hope that in next year's Estimate the Parliamentary Secretary, who will be responsible for its preparation, will see to it that more money is allocated for essential drainage in the west. In County Sligo we have a long and sad history as far as drainage of the Arrow and Owenmore is concerned. It is hard to believe that exactly 70 years ago, under the Wyndham Act, the River Arrow was No. 8 on the priority list. Today it is No. 16. No wonder the people of Sligo are disappointed with this and previous Estimates.
In 1924 this river was pegged out by Army sappers and was ready for work which was to commence in 1932. There was a change of government and the scheme was shelved. No more was heard about this scheme until I asked a question about it in 1961. In that year I was successful in having a survey carried out of the river. Twelve years later I find that the scheme is still No. 16 on the priority list. The survey has been completed but four or five years ago it was stuck in the pigeonhole. We are taking it out now and I hope it stays out.
I should like to ask the Parliamentary Secretary to ensure that some progress is made with the drainage of these two rivers. They are simple schemes but they would improve the condition of 60,000 acres of land. There is very little rock except between Ballisodare and Collooney and this is only for two miles. This scheme would be a simple one to work out. It could be carried out in stages. From Ballisodare to Collooney where the Arrow and Owenmore meet could be the first stage. The removal of the rock there would relieve a lot of the flooding upstream.
The Arrow could be done on its own as far as Lough Arrow. I could not foresee any difficulties arising here. The river runs along the edge of the land. Every heavy shower of rain that comes floods the land. Most of the farmers in the valley of the Arrow are small farmers and every acre is valuable to them. While it is not possible to increase the area of land the drainage of this river would help the farmers to increase their productivity. The farmers in this area have applied on many occasions for assistance under the land project scheme but they were turned down. The reason given was that there was no outfall for the land drainage.
I intend to raise this matter every six months to see what progress is being made. In the meantime I should like to suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary that he should have a cost benefit analysis carried out. If this is carried out he will see that drainage of these rivers will justify the expenditure of a large sum of money. Apart from that, as the Parliamentary Secretary is aware, there are depressed areas in the west of Ireland and the incidence of social welfare payment is pretty high. From that point of view also, money spent on drainage would be well worthwhile because it would be giving productive work to people who are drawing social welfare benefit.
I would also ask the Parliamentary Secretary to increase the grants for local improvement schemes. We could do with more down in my county. This is a fine scheme which we are using for the tarring of non-county roads, these little boreens leading into farmers' places which are beautiful in summer and a very sad mess in winter, and I would be very grateful if he could give us an increased allocation. This scheme replaces the minor employment and bog development schemes which were in existence some years ago. It is the only one left and I am wondering if money could again be provided for the implementing of the Local Authorities (Works) Act which still is in existence but in respect of which money is not being provided for the carrying out of works. I once heard it said here in this House that it was a waste of money. It might have been a waste of money in other counties but it was not a waste of money in the west of Ireland, and, perhaps, the Parliamentary Secretary would look into it to see if it is possible to provide money under that Act for the west.
I am glad that the sum of money provided for schools has been substantially increased but having made some inquiries, I am disappointed to find that some of the big schemes in County Sligo will not be started this year, which, in effect, shows that we are not getting a fair slice of the cake. I hope this will not happen in the coming year. In Collooney, the Protestant school is completely overcrowded and some great mistake has been made here. Some months ago when two Protestant schools, one in Skreen and one in Ballymote, were closed, the children were transported into Collooney where there is absolutely no space and no provision was made to meet the situation. I know that the central school in Collooney is on the cards but I very much doubt if money is provided for it this year. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to pay particular attention to this case and see if it would be possible—the teachers there have asked me to make this point—to put up a pre-fab to take the overflow until such time as the new school is built.
I have to point out to the Deputy that the matters to which he is referring would seem to be more appropriate to the Department of Education rather than the Board of Works who merely act as agents for the Department.
This particular school has been passed over by the Department to the Office of Public Works so I think it is relevant.
If the Deputy is satisfied that it is the responsibility of the Board of Works, very well.
In this case it is. This particular problem is in his Department and I would ask that a pre-fab be provided until such time as the school has been built. The new central school at Easkey is also in the hands of the Board of Works as far as my information goes. As they have been waiting for it for some time, I would ask him to hasten this matter also. I think it is near the stage of getting off the ground. Any money spent on special schools for physically and mentally handicapped children is money well spent and a great effort is being made in my constituency to cater for these children and when a demand is made for help I would ask him to be sympathetic.
I come now to coast erosion and here, again, I am disappointed with the Estimate. In Sligo we suffer very much from this erosion problem. The Office of Public Works did give us a grant for protection at Strandhill and this was very welcome and long awaited, but at Enniscrone part of the road collapsed into the sea and the county council had to carry out a temporary job on it. I know that this case is on the books of the Office of Public Works but no money has been provided to carry it out this year. I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to ensure that money is provided next year and I would also like to see money provided there for a promenade which is badly required.
I do not think we have got our priorities right. It is difficult for any west of Ireland Deputy to read the Estimates and see £30,000 provided for a golf links in the Phoenix Park when we think of all the small jobs that could be carried out for that in the west.
Sligo is dotted all over with prehistoric monuments. At Carrowkeel on a plateau between Castlebergin and Ballymote there are probably some of the most famous in the world. People come from every country in the world to visit them. There is also at Creeveykeel, near Cliffoney, another prehistoric monument which students from foreign universities unearthed. I know the difficulty of the Office of Public Works because most of those monuments are on private property but investigation should be carried out to see how they could be preserved. It would be a pity to let them fall into disrepair. The Castle of Ballymote is an old Norman castle which has housed some very famous families, including the Taaffe's, a member of whom became a high ranking officer in the Austrian army. It was from the Castle of Ballymote that Hugh O'Neill left for the battle of Kinsale. It has many other historic connections. This castle at present is not being looked after by the Office of Public Works although I think it is on a priority list. The walls are beginning to crumble and I would ask that as soon as possible the Board of Works take steps to preserve it.
Perhaps it is unusual for the Leader of the Opposition to intervene in a debate like this but I do so very deliberately to make one or two points. Before I do so I should like, as is the custom, to wish the Parliamentary Secretary well in his office. I have no doubt that having regard to his experience of the House and particularly his knowledge of the west of Ireland, the interests of which were promoted by the last speaker, he will be a successful occupant of that office.
The first point I want to raise is that consideration should be given to the desirability of having an official Taoiseach's residence. The Parliamentary Secretary looked rather startled for a moment. I think this is something we will have to consider seriously. I would say we are probably one of the few countries in Europe that has not got an official residence for the Taoiseach. From my own experience I feel that this is something that must now be seriously considered. I naturally did not raise it while I was still Taoiseach because it is difficult for the occupant of that office to raise such a question during his occupancy of the office. I did make up my mind that on the first suitable occasion after I ceased to be Taoiseach I would raise it publicly and this is the first opportunity that has offered. It is difficult for a person who is the current Taoiseach to do so and one has to have had experience of the office and also a disinterest in the office or in the residence in so far as one can have it. Perhaps my disinterest may be long or short lived but I will not pursue that in any way nor do I hope it will be pursued by anybody who, in the course of the debate subsequently, would like to take up the point. I raise the matter bona fide and in a very genuine way.
I am not suggesting that such a residence be a status symbol for the Taoiseach in office for the time being. I have known each of my three predecessors and I think I can say safely that nobody put less store on persona] aggrandisement than any of my three predecessors. Each lived, as I do, practically on the side of the street. Each had an unpretentious house. I am sure those houses were quite adequate for their purposes as mine is for my own domestic purposes. If we look ahead it is more than likely that most of those who will occupy the office of Taoiseach in the years to come will also be men, or women for that matter, who will have modest residences. Perhaps some may have residences that would be adequate for all the functions of the office of Taoiseach but the likelihood is that most of those who will occupy the office of Taoiseach will come from relatively modest homes and I think there is nothing whatever wrong in this because the more the Taoiseach can identify in every possible way with the people the better.
Each of the occupants of the office of Taoiseach up to now has had a residence in Dublin and the problem may not have made itself apparent for that reason. Each of those who occupied the office of Taoiseach continued to live in his own house. However, I should like to pose the question of a Taoiseach who would be appointed and did not have a residence in Dublin. I had a residence at the time because I had been a Minister for a number of years before that and it was incumbent on me for many reasons to have such a residence but had I been living in my own constituency to become Taoiseach would have created a problem for me. If we take the present Government and if the Labour Party were the dominant one in the Coalition and not Fine Gael, the Leader of the Labour Party, living in Wexford, would have a difficulty in so far as continuing residence in Wexford was concerned. Therefore, for many reasons this suggestion of mine may be given serious consideration.
There are certain hazards involved in occupying a house on the side of the street, apart from the usual one that we try to provide against by making available Garda protection. Without wishing in any way to be platitudinous, let me say in passing that the protection afforded by the Garda is efficient and absolutely first class. They are considerate and courteous not only to the persons they are protecting but to those who have occasion to pass in the immediate vicinity. But there are other hazards that are not very apparent and which even the most efficient garda cannot protect one against. For example, there is the problem of the person who presents himself at the door of the Taoiseach's house and represents himself as something other than he really is. I have had many lost aunts appearing at my door when the gardaí on duty did not wish to exclude certain ladies who were plausible enough to convince the gardai that they were other than they were.
There are difficulties also in respect of the wife of a Taoiseach on whom many duties devolve. If she has a young family she will have many family chores to attend to but in her role as wife of the Taoiseach she must fulfil many other duties by way of entertainment et cetera. I am not making any complaints in this respect but there is the added factor that the wife of the Taoiseach receives a great volume of correspondence with which a conscientious wife will endeavour to deal personally. If there was a reasonable official residence with a modest staff, these duties could be attended to more adequately, perhaps.
During my term in office there were many demonstrations outside my house. In the days of protests by the Dublin Housing Action Committee there were many parades up and down my front garden but because of the short run involved and, consequently, the number of turns, these people very soon gave up their protest. At that time it may have an advantage for me to have lived in a modest house because these people did not have much to protest against so far as I was concerned. However, there are other forms of protest and some of these can be very vociferous. Apart from the difficulty of protecting a small suburban house, there is the embarrassment that one experiences in respect of one's neighbours by reason of the fact that one's presence in a particular neighbourhood draws people who wish to make open, vociferous and, sometimes violent protest. I have experienced such embarrassment from time to time.
Having dealt with the desirability of having an official residence, the next point is the location of it. I have nowhere in particular in mind but I would have preferred a reasonably central location for this purpose. For some time before leaving office I had been in touch personally with the Office of Public Works to see if a suitable house could be found or, alternatively, a suitable location in which to build one. I have not given all the reasons why I advocate this particular consideration but, having raised it now. I am sure that the Parliamentary Secretary will take it up in an objective way. The present Taoiseach may have his own views in this regard and if I could interpret them I would probably find that he would prefer not to have an official residence but, in time, his experience might bring about a change of mind.
Talking of official residences, I take this opportunity of referring to the residence of the President. Under the Constitution the President is obliged to have an official residence in or near the city of Dublin but that does not preclude him from having an official residence in some other part of the country. It is desirable in many ways and, I am sure, would be acceptable generally, that the President have a residence outside Dublin which he could visit from time to time, perhaps at fixed periods in the year if, for nothing else, than to establish that the Office of President is not something that pertains only to Dublin.
I know that the President elect intends to make his Office something meaningful to the people but a residence outside Dublin would give him a better opportunity of bringing the presidency to the people. In this regard I have in mind a residence which has been acquired recently by the Office of Public Works. I refer to the residence and lands of Mrs. Beatrice Grosvenor at Killarney. This property is adjacent to the Bourn Vincent Memorial Park and I understand that the purpose of its acquisition is to augment that park. I understand that the vendor may continue to occupy the premises for the next 18 months or so pending the acquisition by her of alternative accommodation. I do not know the house but I believe it would be adequate for the purpose I have suggested. My reason in suggesting Killarney is not because of its great fame as a beauty spot and not because it is in Munster but because there is a suitable house available there. Perhaps it would be better if such a house was available in Connaught or in Donegal but it would be too pretentious to suggest that there should be one in each province.
The implementation of this suggestion would not cost a lot of money and would not create any undue burden for the State. It would be a nice gesture towards the people and would give the President an opportunity of meeting many people because Killarney is a place which attracts people from all parts of Ireland as well as attracting many Irish emigrants.
One other point I wish to make may have some relevancy to the presidency since the President elect is Mr. Erskine Childers. I refer to the vessel, the Asgard which, as everyone knows, was the ship in which Mr. Childers' father brought arms to Howth. It is now being used as a training ship for young people but I am told that its life span may not be more than two years from now. Indeed, I would not be surprised to hear that it has been condemned already. In any case, it cannot be long until the Asgard is put out of commission. I should like to see steps taken to ensure its preservation in the form, say, of a museum. What is of equal importance in this regard, is that an alternative vessel should be provided because the Asgard is being used to great advantage in training hundreds of young people in seamanship. That is the kind of training I would like to have got. On the day before the general election I opened the boatshow at Ballsbridge and in the course of my remarks I was indiscriminate enough to tell a story albout my first effort at sailing. The vessel concerned was a relatively small yacht but I was so incompetent in the chores of sailing that I was told to sit at the back and stay quiet. Those who were with me called me a farmer. To be called a farmer in terms of sailing was to me the lowest term that could be applied to one. However, some lady took the matter up and wrote a letter to the newspapers in which she signed herself “Farmer's wife” and in which she objected to my derision of the farmers.
Of course, I had to defend myself, or somebody else defended me, and pointed out that it was not in any way by way of derision of the farmers but of myself. I understand that that is, in fact, the term applied to somebody who is not very competent on board a yacht. I suppose the derivation of it is that the farmer is the person who is most closely associated with the land and, therefore, a landlubber as opposed to a sailor or a yachtsman. I am only saying that by the way, having been so peremptorily dismissed as a prospective yachtsman in my younger days. I was always sorry for it.
That is one of the reasons why I would urge upon the Parliamentary Secretary to ensure that inevitable as it now appears to be that the Asgard goes out of commission, it be preserved in so far as it can be and something put there to replace it. These are the two remarks I have to make. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will consider them seriously.
In common with the other Deputies I should like to compliment the new Parliamentary Secretary and wish him well. As a landlubber myself, I shall confine my few remarks to that field of operation.
I should like to compliment the Office of Public Works on what they have done. Anybody travelling to Dublin or to the west by train must realise that there is a great deal to be done. Looking out of the windows of the train one wonders if there is any dry land in Ireland. There is a great task ahead of us and a great deal of money will have to be found for arterial drainage. Grassland is becoming more and more important and land that hitherto might have been regarded as of only marginal use is now very valuable farmland, due to the emphasis on dairy products.
Would Deputy Hegarty give way to me for one moment? There is something I forgot to put to the Parliamentary Secretary in respect of my case for an official residence. Now that we are in the Common Market there will be many people, heads of government and others, who will be visiting our country and, perhaps, many people coming from the North in the new situation, such an official residence would be a better location for meeting these people than, perhaps, the more open and less neutral ground, say, of Iveagh House or Government Buildings or such like.
Mr. Kenny
A residence similar to Chequers?
I do not think we would want it to be as pretentious as Chequers. I apologise to the Deputy for interrupting him.
There was a time when it was debatable whether all this money should be spent on arterial drainage in view of the limited use of land but now that the emphasis is on grass farming, beef production generally and such things as zero grazing a great many uses can be made of a very poor type of land and, indeed. cut-away bog where drainage is probably carried out can be put to good use for horticultural purposes. The Parliamentary Secretary has a mammoth task ahead of him, one which he cannot hope to accomplish in one year. We should broaden our vision with regard to arterial drainage and regard it as something from which we would derive very real benefit,
While in the western areas it may be a good thing to use manual labour where possible, elsewhere the best equipment must be used so that the operation can be carried out quickly and the land brought into production.
The question of estuaries comes under this Vote. A great deal of money must be found for work on parts of Cork harbour which are silting up with sewage, which is not only unpleasant but unhealthy. There are many Departments involved but the actual drainage would be a function of the Office of Public Works. Attention should be given to places like Ownacurra which is a really scenic part of County Cork. At the moment, when the tide is out, this is as foul smelling a place as could be found. Some courageous individual not long ago made suggestions about damming the estuary at one point where that was feasible. This would solve a very major problem.
Deputy Gilhawley referred to laneways. The Office of Public Works should be encouraged to involve themselves in the improvement of boreens as we call them. Where they have been taken over and where bends have been removed and resurfacing has been carried out the people living in the locality derive the benefit.
In the area where I live coast erosion is a very big problem. The amount of money provided to deal with this problem is not very great but I suppose there is a limit to our resources. There are beautiful beaches like Garryvoe, where, although some work is being carried out, a great deal more needs to be done. Ballycotton is another such place. I refer to Garryvoe in particular because it is one of our most beautiful beaches and in wintertime it is subject to severe erosion.
I should like to compliment the Office of Public Works on their work in connection with schools. They are doing trojan service in trying to provide sufficient schools to cope with the population explosion which is so welcome. The schools that are being erected are a credit to them in workmanship and design. The design is attractive and the schools are bright and airy and attractive to pupils and teachers alike. A great portion of one's life is spent in school. The attractiveness and general lay-out of the schools are very important, especially in the formative years of the children. So far as courthouses are concerned, the heating arrangements and other services are not good. Perhaps the buildings are meant to be drab and rather severe looking but they would benefit considerably by a general tidying-up. The same applies to some of the Garda stations where improvements are necessary in many cases.
I should like to compliment the Office of Public Works on the trojan work they have done with regard to arterial drainage. However, we are only scratching the surface of what is a major problem. We can do little about the geography of our country but even places like east Cork which are supposed to be fertile contain much waste land. I hope that in future Estimates we will be even more courageous and work to ensure that our country will be able to compete with the European nations.
Mr. Kitt
I should like to join with my colleagues in congratulating the Parliamentary Secretary on his appointment. So far as the west of Ireland is concerned it is a very important post and although we expected there would be more Ministers from the west nevertheless we are pleased that this important appointment has been given to Deputy Kenny. He is a former classmate of mine, he knows the problems of the west, he has long experience in public life both as a Member of this House and also as a member of Mayo County Council and its subsidiary bodies. His vast experience and his knowledge of the problems of the west will be of help to him in his new post and I am sure this will be evident during his period in office. I join with other speakers in wishing him well and every success in his new job.
I should like to congratulate the Office of Public Works, the Parliamentary Secretary and his predecessors for the work that has been done in the last decade on public buildings, such as post offices, Garda stations and schools, particularly national schools. I agree with the last speaker that in recent years the design and lay-out of these buildings have improved remarkably. As a former teacher I know how important it is to have a good environment for the pupils in their early years. The modern buildings designed by the Office of Public Works, with their beautiful teak windows, with central heating, proper sanitation, and with landscaping, are to be commended. I attended a school opening ceremony in my constituency recently and it impressed me very much. Teachers working in these buildings have a much easier job than their predecessors. The children get a lesson in civics which is badly needed nowadays; I hope they will have respect for these beautiful buildings, that they will take that lesson with them through life and always have respect for public property.
The Parliamentary Secretary stated that considerable provision has been made for the preservation of ancient monuments. In my constituency valuable work has been carried out for some years at Athenry in order to preserve historical buildings. The engineers and men who are working on the restoration of the abbeys and castles are doing worthwhile work for the future. Valuable employment is provided and in years to come their work will be appreciated by historians and tourists.
I am disappointed about the provision in the Estimate for drainage work in the west of Ireland and I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will ensure that this matter is rectified in next year's Estimate. In my constituency I can see the benefits of drainage work that was carried out in some areas. However, in the area near my home not enough work is being done in this regard. In my constituency there are the Clare and Corrib rivers and in the Parliamentary Secretary's constituency there is the river Moy. He is aware of the many acres of land that have been drained and improved. However, in parts of my constituency near the Shannon and the Suck thousands of acres are waterlogged. If these lands were dealt with under the arterial drainage scheme it would give an extra ten to 15 acres to farmers in the area. Valuable work has been done on the Brosna, the Moy and the Corrib and we can see the benefits.
An American expert was brought here at the time of the first Coalition Government to consider the possibility of draining the Shannon and the Suck rivers. He did not tell us any more than our own engineers told us: he stated it was not possible to drain the Suck river until work was carried out on the Shannon. It all came down to a question of money. We do not need foreign experts because we have competent engineers of our own and that has been proved in Bord na Mona, the ESB and in the sugar company. Our engineers and technicians have designed first-class machinery and many of them are famous in other countries. The Russians visited Ireland in order to see the work being done by Bord na Mona and on their return to their own country they praised the work of our engineers and technicians. They came to learn from us. We do not need foreign experts to tell us how to carry out drainage work or any other work. Our engineers are competent; all we need is money and I hope the Parliamentary Secretary and the Minister for Finance will he able to find that money for us.
I think we should be able to get this money for drainage from Brussels under the regional policy. We have our own Social Commissioner there and we have a Scotsman Commissioner for Regional Development and between them, the Minister for Finance and his Parliamentary Secretary may be able to make a case to get money. There could be no better regional development than to divide this additional land among all the farmers living along the banks of the Shannon and the Suck. Thousands of acres and hundreds of farmers would benefit as a result. At present this land is waterlogged and useless for most of the year. If the owners apply under the land project scheme and an officer comes along and says that there is no outlet for the water. He will say: "I am sorry, your land needs drainage badly; it needs lime and manure but we can do nothing about it until the Suck and the Shannon are drained."
The American expert associated these two rivers which I do not believe is correct. The Suck is only a tributary of the Shannon. The Brosna was a tributary on the other side and was capable of being drained. I believe our own engineers would be able to do this without waiting for the major scheme on the Shannon. However, if the Minister for Finance and the Parliamentary Secretary succeeded in getting the money from Brussels and using it under the regional policy for the benefit of this land the result would be as good as putting up factories. Both developments could go hand in hand. The farmers would have extra land and extra profits from it. I believe it should qualify for regional development. If what I am suggesting is carried out it will be of immense benefit for the west and the small farmers who have no other hope of increasing their holdings. Practically all the large estates have been divided now with nothing coming on the market for the Land Commission except small farms of old people who die without successors or of bachelors who avail of a Land Commission pension scheme. These are very few. Arterial drainage would mean the addition of ten or 15 acres to every farm along the banks of the Suck and the Shannon.
I am sure that somewhere in the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries there is a report on the terrible consequences of this flooding for some farmers. I know of one farmer in my own constituency whose whole flock of sheep were wiped out a few years ago by liver fluke. When grass grows for a month or two in summer on land that has been flooded and sheep are grazed there—cattle may also get fluke—they are very liable to get this disease. In the case I cited the vet said that the rivers were full of the fluke germ and that the disease was entirely due to the flooding. This would supplement the case of the Parliamentary Secretary to get more money for drainage next year in the west of Ireland.
Mar focal scoir, guiín rath agus beannacht Dé ar an Rúnai Parlaiminte agus ar Oifigigh Bhord na n-Oibreacha Poiblf. Bhí siad go an-mhaith nuair a bhí mé i Roinn na Gaeltachta. Rinne siad a lan oibre ar ár son sna Gaeltachtaí go léir. Arís guírn rath agus beannacht Dé air féin mar gheall ar an sar-obair thábhachtach atá a déanamh aige. Tá suil agam go leanfaidh sé ar aghaidh leis an dea-obair.
Like other Deputies I should like to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary on his appointment. I also congratulate the Taoiseach on selecting him because as we say in the west: "Henry Kenny—there is no better man." He is a very popular Deputy. He knows the west and because of that alone he is a worthy occupant of the post.
His Office covers a wide field ranging from post offices and Garda barracks to piers along the west coast. He will have to travel a good deal but he has already travelled much of the country. Recently a man said to the Parliamentary Secretary: "You should come to my area to see what I am talking about." The Parliamentary Secretary replied: "I spent four years there; I know every stone on every road there". He did not say he knew every pub but he knew all the places in the area better than the man who was talking to him and who had just come to the area.
The Parliamentary Secretary controls the spending of a great amount of money—no better man. Nowadays when one hears so much of conditions in our jails—I have mentioned this on other Estimates—and when we have people carrying placards protesting against conditions in these jails, it is strange that we never see any of them protesting against conditions in some of the Garda barracks. There is much to be said in regard to improving barracks throughout the country. What do they want these jails to become—holiday camps? Anybody who does not want to go there need only keep the law. Many people who have legitimate reason to go into Garda barracks, including foreigners, do not think very much of conditions there, not through any fault of the Garda but, I suppose, of the Board of Works down the years. That is a legacy left to this Department as in the case of every other Department, a legacy of things that should have been done in the past. I look forward to some improvements. I would stress the need for the improvement of some of the old social welfare offices in Galway city. People are working there under conditions that are not very edifying and I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to do something to improve that position.
Piers and slips throughout the country are covered in this Estimate. I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to let me know the position in regard to a major fishery harbour that has been shelved, not by him but by those who went before him.
I should like to know what happened in regard to the Rossaviel scheme which was to cater for fishermen along the west coast. For too long this has been made a political football. Prior to the second last election it was a football which was kicked around the area. We were told that the money had been provided and that the work was starting. They had somebody down there with a pickaxe and a tape two nights before the election telling them that the job was about to be started. That did not work this time.
I did not think they did anything with a pickaxe.
On a point of order, is it not a fact that a contractor has been selected to do the work on this harbour?
Is that a point of order?
I do not think the Deputy should waste the time of the House.
Engineers were sent down the country to boost the political football which was being kicked around in that area.
If that is not a point of order, it is in order to ask for a quorum.
Notice taken that 20 Members were not present; House counted and 20 Members being present.
I was saying before I was interrupted—and I shall repeat it——
Repetition is not in order.
My colleague, Deputy Geoghegan, may have taken it that I was accusing him of being a political footballer on the Rossaviel team, but Deputy Geoghegan was honourable enough not to use those tactics in the area. The captain was alone on that field. It is about time that football was deflated, and there is no better man to deflate it than our Parliamentary Secretary——
I thought the idea was to put the football in the back of the net.
——and he will do it when the time comes. I should like the position in relation to the Rossaviel scheme and the major fishery harbour to be clear once and for all. These things were shelved for 16 years by Fianna Fáil. We will be having the local government elections but perhaps, the football field does not extend as far as Rossaviel for the purpose of those elections. A certain sharp-shooter may not be able to score in that area. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to clear up this matter.
Piers and slips play a very important part in the economy of the west coast where there are small farmer/ fishermen. What they cannot get from the land they have to get from the sea. Congestion along the west coast stems from the time of the famine. When the land failed them, the people came to the coast to get what the sea could provide. The facilities there are not the best for men who do lobster fishing and cray fishing. Many of them deal in seaweed. The seaweed factories have to be catered for. It is important that these people should get the facilities to land the seaweed. I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to improve some of the slips in the Aran area. On the different islands of Aran a lot of fishing is going on. In fairness, it is often the lifeblood of these people to get from island to island and they must be enabled to do so in safety.
I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to provide a crane on Inishere. Time and tide wait for no man and a lot of fish has to be landed from the smaller boats when the Aran boats, Naomh Eanna and Galway Bay, go from Galway to Aran. The landings must be carried out in a certain time. The answer to that would be the provision of a crane. I should be glad if the Parliamentary Secretary could do something in that respect.
I note that the Parliamentary Secretary is responsible for the Phoenix Park and St. Stephen's Green. I should like to make a suggestion in regard to either of these parks. In London there is Hyde Park Corner.
Have we not enough places to talk in without providing a special place?
Is it not better to hear people talking than firing bullets and bombs? Let them blow off steam. Let us have a Hyde Park Corner either in Phoenix Park or St. Stephen's Green. Maybe Phoenix Park would be more suitable because you would not like to pollute the Green with some of the material that would be flowing from the platforms of these people. It might be a way of letting people let off steam. Let them stand up on a soap box rather than use bombs or bullets. Maybe the Parliamentary Secretary could do something to help a lot of these head cases. A Deputy is interrupting me and I should like to see him go up to the Park. Let him blow off steam if he has too much of it. and see who listens to him. I will not listen to him anyway.
I suggest something should be done in this respect. I do not know quite where the Parliamentary Secretary comes into it, but if he has some authority, it would be a good thing for a great many people who like to say more than their prayers; if only for the gas of it, it would be no harm to let them blow off steam.
Many of the drains into the Comb are in need of deepening. There should also be little bridges across these drains. Because of the lack of bridges at the moment there are vast areas of turf which cannot be harvested. The provision of these bridges to enable the turf to be harvested would mean a great deal to the economy of the area.
I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to give me some information on the various points I have raised. Once more, I congratulate him on his appointment and, as we say, there is no better man for the job.
I, too, should like to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary on his appointment to the Office of Public Works. The Board of Works are doing a great deal of work in my constituency in the drainage of the river Boyne. The work is providing a good deal of employment in the area. When I was first elected to this House an engineer wrote to me and said that one of my first priorities should be to get some industry for south Meath and north-west Kildare. In this area employment is seasonal in character. There is no employment in the winter months. People work for three or four months on maintenance work for the county council and are idle for the rest of the year.
It took quite some time to get the drainage of the Boyne going, but already the benefits are beginning to manifest themselves. A great deal of farmland is being opened up, land which hitherto could never be utilised to its full potential. A typical example is the area around the Blackwater in Kildare. The area runs from Johnstown Bridge to Knockanalley. Before drainage started the area was covered with rushes. One man told me that his father remembered a time when corn was growing right up to his own door and he explained that this was the case because the people living in Knockanalley used to keep the rivers open and maintain the drains. However, 60 or 70 years ago they stopped doing this, with the result that the Blackwater silted up and the land could not be drained. Now this whole area has been opened up once more and within the next ten years it should be one of the most fertile areas in the country; some four or five thousand acres are involved. This will prove the value of arterial drainage. In a few months drainage will be completed and the contractors will then move in under the land project scheme to deal with the farms.
This scheme is in full view of the road, but I am happy to say that every effort is being made not to interfere with the scenic amenities of the area. This is appreciated by the people, particularly those interested in tourism. There will be no unsightly mounds as has been the case in other areas. The people in Trim certainly appreciate what is being done. This year they achieved their ambition of becoming the tidiest town in Ireland. They discussed the position with the officials of the Board of Works and the result was most satisfactory. A certain amount of gratitude is due to the Board of Works for their assistance.
It will take quite some time to do all the drainage necessary in Meath, particularly south Meath. The work being done is worthwhile.
On the archaeological side, the outer walls of Trim Castle are being pointed. This was the home of an old mint and we were all hoping that we might find a few gold coins knocking around. I am afraid the old people did not leave any gold or silver behind.
The Trim Chamber of Commerce are very enthusiastic about developing King John's Castle along the lines of Bunratty—mediaeval dinners, a museum, et cetera. They are prepared to contribute a certain amount of money towards it. The Office of Public Works could carry out a worthwhile project here. They could bring the ideals of the local people to fruition and there would be tremendous local pride in the castle. It is a fine castle. It is amazing to see how good the comers are and how straight the walls. This is a project which would be well worth while pursuing. An additional advantage would be that it would open up the Boyne Valley further. Usually a tour of the Boyne Valley starts or ends at Navan. King John's Castle would be a tourist attraction and it would mean that people would see more of the Boyne. There are some very picturesque scenes along the way and it would take in two of the principal towns in the county.
There is an archaeological aspect to the Castle as well. It is used as a base for work on some other castles in neighbouring counties. A section comes down from Dublin, they do about two or three months work and then they let off the two or three men they have employed and come back to Dublin to record what they have found. It is rather frustrating for the few people they employ. They should be employed on the general staff of the Board of Works and then passed over to Mr. Sweetman, who seems to be the man in charge of this, when he needs them. This would look better from an employer point of view than taking them on and letting them off as at present.
The Office of Public Works have fine facilities in Trim. There is a workshop there with plenty of ground. It is reasonably central. Perhaps they would consider transferring their main workshop in Inchicore to Trim. I asked about this in a Parliamentary question but there does not seem to be any intention of doing it at present. There is a strong case for this. Here in Dublin they are short of space. Trim would be more accessible. It is not very far away from the main road to the west. Taking big machinery into Dublin is becoming a problem. I mention Trim because there is a depot there and they have facilities and when they leave, which I hope will not be for many a long day but it is inevitable when the Boyne has been drained, if the maintenance yard was there it would be ideal. It would be quite near Dublin and there would be no difficulty about bringing down parts to be assembled. Instead of working in cramped conditions, as in Dublin, there would be plenty of space and, indeed, I am sure the yard here in Dublin would fetch a very high price if it was sold. It would be worthwhile to move down to a place like Trim.
I was looking around here yesterday and I noticed that the curtain at the back of the Press gallery is very dirty. I do not know when it was cleaned but I think it must only be cleaned once a year. It would be worthwhile to have it cleaned during each recess. It must also be a year since the face of the clock on that side of the chamber was cleaned. I would hate to draw my finger across its face. The one on the other side is all right. I suppose it is easier to reach. I had a party of children here last Friday morning and they brought this to my notice. They also wondered how the Windows over the Chamber are cleaned. Many visitors come here. That curtain is a fine one and it would be worthwhile having it cleaned during the recess. It would be no great trouble to the cleaners to clean the face of the clock and not to have it as it is.
I should like again to compliment the Parliamentary Secretary on his appointment and on the work the Office of Public Works are doing in the Meath constituency. I can assure him that the work being done and the employment provided are appreciated.
I should like to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary on his appointment and wish him well. He is in charge of a very wide field of activities. He has received a lot of praise. I am sure he will do a fine job. Many Deputies have thanked the Office of Public Works for what they have done in the different constituencies. The things I want to say are not the things they did but the things they did not do and which I think they should do. I am not unappreciative of the wonderful things they have done but once it is done, it is done and then we are looking for something else to be done.
In regard to drainage, a fine job is being done in some places but it seems to me that when a job is completed and as the years go on, there is no proper system of maintenance of the works which have been carried out and we are not getting the full value from the money spent on the drainage. Drainage boards seem to be set up to maintain these works but they do not seem to have money to do anything except possibly to clean out weeds. The full potential of any drainage scheme of which I have knowledge has not been got because very small drains are not being done and much of this land is very poor prior to drainage and it could be improved if these small drains were done. They are not done and if they are done they are not being maintained and so I do not think we always get the full potential value of the drainage we do. I should like the Minister to look into that to see if something could be done to ensure that all the potential of the work originally done in the catchment areas of these rivers is secured.
With regard to public buildings, I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to say when the very necessary work of providing an extension to the Naas barracks, which is urgent and badly needed, will be carried out. For years, and it is no blame to the present holder of the office, we have been looking for a new Garda barracks in Athy. The barracks building which was occupied there was a rat-infested place and the worst imaginable accommodation anyone could have for carrying on business. We owe something better to the Garda and something has, I admit, been done in Athy, in that premises have been rented and they were moved out of this place. It was said that it was not capable of being repaired but it was well situated in the centre of the town where I think the Garda should be. The alternative accommodation secured by the board is outside the town and this has brought its problems. I am not saying that the alternative accommodation is not much better than the premises from which they were moved. It is a lot better from the point of view of the people who have to work and live there, but the extraordinary thing is that the premises they left have been bought and developed into a fine business premises although the Board of Works said it would not be possible to develop it as a Garda barracks.
Many sites were examined for a new barracks and it was stated many times that a suitable site was not available. Last week I was speaking to a person in Athy and when the sergeant appeared about 10 o'clock this person asked the sergeant if he was in for the day, meaning that the barracks was so far from the town that one never saw the gardaí except when they appeared on a round of duty. This is a pity because since the gardaí left the centre of the town, one of the biggest stores there has been robbed seven times and it was never interefered with during the period when the gardaí were in the old barracks. There is a site available in a prominent place within easy distance of the centre of town and the Board of Works should endeavour to bring the gardai back into the town proper so that the people will have the protection to which they are entitled and which they always had.
In the matter of schools I have a crib. In the parish of Athy, a new school was to be built in a very small rural area where services were not available. That new school is in course of construction and I made representations to the county council that they should get into negotiations with the Board of Works with regard to the provision of water and sewerage services together in the area. I do not know if these representations ever went as far as the Board of Works, as I was not a Deputy at the time, but they should have and there should be co-operation between the local authority and the Board of Works in areas where they are building schools.
Mr. Kenny
What school is that?
Ballyroan, in the parish of Athy. There was some discussion between the council and the Board of Works because the board have taken over a pump to provide water to this school, despite the fact that there is a group water scheme in the making in the area. I am told by residents there that the supply of water to the public is not now available, that there is something wrong with this pump since they took it over, There is a group water scheme there, and there had to be sewerage provided by means of a septic tank for the school, but if they had got around the table and discussed it, these facilities would have been provided for the school and the whole village. I asked the county council to take it up with the Board of Works two years ago— I am not saying they did—when this was in the pipe-line.
I am told by responsible people in an industry in my town that the Board of Works are the principal users of imported plywood. I am told that Irish Wallboard Limited-they can supply a comparable article-sought by every means in their power to get within the specifications of the Board of Works and have failed to do so. This is something of which we should all be ashamed because if, as they claim, they are producing an article which can stand up to the competition of imported plywood in the many fields in which it is used by the Board of Works. which can compete in price and quality with imported plywood, it should appear in the specification of the Board of Works so that these people can compete and provide a supply of this necessary material. This has been brought to my notice by responsible people in that industry. I should like to ask the Parliamentary Secretary to meet the people concerned, and discuss with them what I consider are legitimate grievances in this field. If what they have told me is correct we have something to be ashamed of. I am not holding the present holder of this office in any way responsible for this situation. I feel sure he will consider this matter which is important from an employment point of view to this area.
This firm produce an article which. they hold, competes in every way with imported plywood. This firm have informed me that the Office of Public Works is one of the biggest users of imported plywood in this country. If that is true then the grievance of this firm should be investigated by the Parliamentary Secretary. I can arrange a meeting between the people concerned in this firm and the Parliamentary Secretary at which this matter can be ironed out.
I intervene in this debate to wish the Parliamentary Secretary well in his post and to compliment his predecessor. Deputy Lemass, for the work he did during his term of office. Deputy Kenny and I have been friends for more than 30 years. We had occasion to be involved with real, as distinct from political, footballs. Deputy Kenny, I am sure, is aware that he has my sincere good wishes in his new office.
I should like also to compliment Deputy Lemass for his co-operation with me, when I was Minister for Lands, in matters of common interest. There was, in particular, the question of the division, or apportionment, of authority for the running of the Bourn Vincent National Park in Killarney. For many years this was the subject of acrimonious correspondence between the officials of the Department of Lands and the Office of Public Works. We suggested to each other that a personal visit to Killarney might enable us to solve the entire problem rapidly. I am happy to say that on such a visit we achieved our purpose and, instead of having acrimony, and disagreement, between the officials of the Office of Public Works and the Department of Lands, certain areas which bad been previously under the Department of Lands were given over to the Office of Public Works. Since then there has not been any hint of dissentions of any kind. On the contrary, there has been nothing but the closest co-operation between the Departments concerned.
I should like to pay tribute to the officials of the Forest and Wild Life Service and the Office of Public Works for the dramatic improvements that have been effected since that new apportionment of responsibility was effected. I hope to be in a position to pay a visit to that area later this year to see what progress was made during the past 12 months.
Nearer home, and a subject I have never mentioned, is the restoration work on Urlar Abbey, one of the most beautiful abbeys of mediaeval times in the country. I spent many happy days in my early years in this area. After my election to this House I approached the Commissioners to see if restoration work could be carried out. I was informed that the situation was that the title was vested in the Mayo County Council as successors to another body who had succeeded to the title roughly 100 years ago. They expressed their willingness to do the necessary restoration work immediately the title was vested in them.
This was finally done in 1965 or 1966 and no praise of mine would be too high, first, that the Office of Public Works put the necessary restoration work in hands immediately and, secondly, that they did an absolutely splendid job of restoration. Indeed, it would not be possible to have done any more, from the restorative point of view, with Urlar Abbey than has been done. This will be a source of enjoyment and satisfaction to everyone who visits this abbey but, in particular, to those in the locality, some of whom devoted a lifetime to drawing attention to the beauties of the abbey and the necessity for not despoiling it and, ultimately, the desirability of its restoration. I speak on their behalf, and on my own, in complimenting the Office of Public Works on this work.
Holy Cross Abbey is in a different dimension but some words of compliment are due. When I visit there I will be able to look at a silver birch which was presented by the Forestry and Wild Life Service in my Department when I was Minister. This will give me a personal interest in my subsequent visits to Holy Cross Abbey, an absolutely serene and beautiful series of buildings.
On the subject of drainage, there are a number of points which I should like to raise. The decision to review the activities of the Office of Public Works in arterial drainage after a lapse of approximately a quarter of a century in operation was a correct one. Perhaps the words, cost/benefit analysis, were unfortunate and may have given the wrong impression to people interested in the drainage of land as to what the Office of Public Works were trying to do. It is obvious in the operation of any scheme, however well-intentioned or designed, that during a long period queries should arise in the minds of those responsible for it as to the advisability of any particular aspect of the work concerned. Also, pressure builds up from different interests and from different points of view in regard to the advisability or otherwise of any drainage, not so much of a scheme but of the drainage of a particular component within a scheme. A perfect example of that was the controversy that arose regarding the possible drainage of certain lands in Galway which provide winterage for wild fowl. This raises the general question of liaison between the Minister for Lands on the forestry side and the Commissioners for Public Works about wet lands in general. The necessity for the preservation of wet lands, of sanctuaries, and of other such areas helpful to wild fowl is appreciated more now than at any time in the past. It is possible that some damage has been done during the past 25 years by the activities of the Office of Public Works in the field of drainage.
Close liaison must be maintained between the Forestry and Wild Life section of the Department of Lands and the Office of Public Works because if, say, there is a decision to preserve wet lands in a given area and if such decision should be harmful in any way to the local farmers, they must be entitled to reasonable compensation. Machinery for this purpose exists, if not through the Office of Public Works, certainly through the Land Commission and where it does not exist, it can be established. That is what we are here to do.
I have no doubt that the combined forces of the Office of Public Works and the Forestry and Wild Life Service of the Department of Lands will be able to provide a suitable scheme so as to achieve an optimum result from a national point of view rather than a maximum result from a sectional point of view. I trust that the gist of what I am saying is clear.
On specific drainage projects, it appears to me that the Maigue and the Robe represent inescapable commitments but I am inclined to think that they represent inescapable commitments for drainage along the old lines, if I may use that expression. I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary will be interested to know that at the meeting referred to earlier today by Deputy Calleary there were very emotive speeches and there was a highly charged atmosphere.
Mr. Kenny
I was not present at that. meeting. The Deputy made a mistake but I will be at a future meeting.
I am aware that the Parliamentary Secretary was not present but the meeting was referred to by Deputy Calleary. There are two points I would like to mention in relation to that meeting. The first is that I said that, possibly, parts of this area should not be drained at all.
Mr. Kenny
What was the reaction to that?
It was very unfavourable but only on the part of one or two vociferous people present and not in conversation that I had privately afterwards with some people who attended the meeting and who were reasonable in attitude. These people accepted that there were certain parts of that particular catchment area that might very well be left as wet lands. The second point is that we put it to them that the Office of Public Works might in future consider draining the main river and letting some other interest look after the tributaries. It has been suggested here by other speakers that the Office of Public Works should do every little drain in the entire catchment. I would not agree with that. It is of interest that at the meeting referred to the people present were prepared to accept the drainage of the main river and leave the tributaries to other schemes under, perhaps, the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries or the county council.
Regardless of what is said here in general terms about the value of land to farmers, one only has to travel around the country and study the schemes that have been completed, notably the Moy, to see the vast difference between the appearance of the land in the hands of a farmer who is interested and willing to work and that in the hands of the far too many farmers who were clamouring for years for drainage and then, when the work was done, allowed the land to fall again into scrub and rushes. That is not a very palatable thing to have to say but the evidence is there to prove it. It is, therefore, another reason why it is right and proper that the Commissioners and the Parliamentary Secretary should re-consider this question. If the main catchment is drained well, an individual farmer would at least have the option of doing subsidiary drainage work. It would be a matter for himself and then the wheat would be separated from the chaff.
Before leaving that subject, I should add that in respect of the scores of applications that I and other Deputies and Senators made in regard to additional work, to compensation, to the provision of bridges and all other consequential matters—particularly in regard to the Moy—I found the Office of Public Works eminently reasonable and the various Parliamentary Secretaries down through the years equally so. This applied in many cases where statutory right to any compensation or consideration had long since faded out.
One final point in regard to the Lung catchment is that, obviously, the river cannot be drained if, as a result, any additional water were to flow into the Shannon basin. The situation in the Shannon is bad enough without making it worse. It is accepted that the chain of lakes covered by the name of Lough Gara is at a very low level, so low that the lakes are now virtually of no value for fishing purposes, certainly for trout fishing purposes and have only coarse fish and that not in anything like the same quantities or providing anything like the same sport as was the case.
Here, again, I was accused at the meeting in question of having a political attitude to this because the then Minister for Agriculture, James Dillon, was responsible during the period of the first Coalition Government for the blasting of the Tinnecarra Rock, thereby dramatically lowering the level of Lough Gara. So far as I am concerned, there is no political content in what I am saying. It probably was a very good thing to do what was done at that time but it did serious damage to Lough Gara as a tourist attraction. It is possible to restore the level by continuing the drainage of the Lung right up to where the end of the catchment is near my father's place without adding one drop of water to the Shannon basin.
If the Parliamentary Secretary establishes that what I am saying is accurate and if the people of the area will be satisfied with the drainage of the main channel, this is something that not merely could be done but which ought to be done because it would have the twin effects of improving the amenities of Lough Gara and of draining the remainder of the catchment. It will be appreciated that those who benefited in the lower reaches of the catchment 20 years ago or so from the blasting of the Tinnecarra Rock are objects of envy to the remainder in the few miles of the rest of the catchment because their land was drained while their neighbours' land was not.
Therefore, there is a very strong case based on what I have said for the completion of this work and for putting it in a different category from the arterial drainage proposed for the Maigue which is very well advanced, and for the Robe which I understand is also very well advanced.
Mr. Kenny
Suppose the main Lung was done, would that not inundate an area of land into Lough Gara?
As I understand the position the lake would be well able to hold it.
Mr. Kenny
What about the residents and farmers around the edge of the lake?
The land that was exposed at the time the crannogs emerged had been under water for thousands of years and it is not productive and never will be productive, that is, the land immediately around the lake that would be flooded again.
Mr. Kenny
Would there be any objections to that?
I do not think so. The level was lowered very dramatically. I do not think that even all the water that that would put in would bring it back to anything like the level at which it was in the late '40s before this work was put in hand. It is obvious from looking at it that some of the land has been rehabilitated as a result but that a great deal of it was incapable of being rehabilitated because it had been too long under water. I suppose there would be an ancillary problem of what to do about the crannogs. That could be solved by putting a fort around them, perhaps.
The only other matter is to find out what is the position about the provision of a new barracks in Kiltimagh. This has been going on for a long time, the proposal being that the existing barracks which, as the Parliamentary Secretary knows, was built as a cottage hospital some years ago and was never, in fact, used as such, would be used as a centre for convalescents who would be sent on there from the county hospital. This project had reached the acceptance stage with the former Minister for Health but it was impossible to secure a suitable site in the town for the erection of an alternative barracks and the project has virtually rested there since. So, I would be interested to know, at the Parliamentary Secretary's convenience, the up-to-date position and if there is a prospect of providing a barracks which would in turn provide a convalescent home for, admittedly, a small number of people but which would be a great relief to the county hospital in Castlebar.
I should like to offer my congratulations to the Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Kenny, on his appointment. I and many other Deputies have found him willing to meet anybody who has a problem in regard to any matter proper to the Office of Public Works.
Deputy S. Flanagan dealt at some length with the matter of drainage of rivers. He made one very important point with which I am in full agreement, that is, that if at least the main rivers and the main catchment areas were drained, tributaries of those rivers would benefit substantially. I speak in particular about the River Finn which is in my constituency. This river flows through Ballybofey and the Brick area. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle may remember that a few years ago tremendous flooding occurred in this area and in Ballybofey houses were flooded. The River Finn is ninth on the list of priorities. It may be six or seven years before it is drained. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to devote considerable thought to this area. At times of heavy rain the people in the Ballybofey area are afraid that they will be flooded out of their houses once again. I have visited houses in this area that have been flooded to a depth of nine feet. The marks are still on the walls of the living rooms. It is just not good enough that this position should be tolerated. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to expedite the drainage of the River Finn. I realise that over the last few weeks a decision has been made to have special machines made available to help the farmers in the area. This matter has not received sufficient publicity in the area. I did not know about it and neither did many of my farming friends. Perhaps it would be useful to publish an advertisement in connection with this matter. I shall do all I can to ensure that the farmers know this important facility is available.
I should like to refer to the River Bonnett in the Manorhamilton-Dromahair area. I do not have to tell the House that Leitrim has the worst land in the country, the highest decline rate in population and the least jobs per head of the population. The land around the River Bonnett is low-lying and is subjected to considerable flooding. If any county deserves priority it must be Leitrim. The Office of Public Works could do valuable work on the Bonnett to ensure that land in the area is made fertile. In addition, the Office of Public Works should ensure that arrangements are made to cut branches of trees which hang down into rivers. If this were done there would be a faster flow of water and considerably less flooding.
Fishing is one of the main industries in Donegal and I am delighted a decision was made to extend the Burtonport pier and that work is in progress. However, there is a problem in that the people of Arranmore Island are worried that, as the pier is extended, there will not be enough berths for their boats. More important, they are afraid there will not be sufficient depth for the boats coming into Burtonport pier on the south side. I do not think a major job is necessary at this stage', if a dredger were used for a week or so it would alleviate the problem. I should like to compliment the Office of Public Works on the work they intend to carry out at Burtonport pier. People have been agitating about this pier for many years and at last it is nearing completion.
I should like the Office of Public Works to examine a pier at Killcashagh which is about seven or eight miles from Burtonport. This pier has a very considerable depth of water. People in the area have estimated it might cost about £250,000 to extend the pier to an island and to make it a safe harbour for boats. We must give the fishermen, especially those on the north-west coast, all the facilities they need; by facilities I include provision for berths for boats in the event of storms.
I am glad that some provision has been made for the reclamation of the Rossnowlagh beach. I am sure most visitors to Donegal know this magnificent beach: it stretches for four or five miles and is very safe for children. In the last 20 years the sand is being washed away by the sea but I hope that in the next few months something will be done to rectify this matter. When an hotel in the area was erected the director put a marker in the sand: over a period of time some 20 feet of sand has been washed away.
An important matter for the Office of Public Works is the Garda stations in the Border areas. We need proper facilities for the Garda: Deputy Flanagan mentioned the Monaghan area and I am referring to Donegal. There is a new Garda station in Letterkenny but there is need for a new station at Ballyshannon. About eight years ago the Department of Justice bought a site in Ballyshannon for a Garda station and I think the Minister for Finance has approved expenditure for its erection. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will take a special note of this and will let me know when there will be a new station at Ballysbannon.
I should like to refer to the O'Donnell Castle in Donegal town. At last some of the local people are taking an interest in ensuring that restoration work on the castle is carried out. When one mentions Donegal to anyone outside this country, they usually think of the O'Donnells of Donegal. The people who are interested in the restoration of the castle should get every support.
One of the first things that struck me when I arrived in this House a few months ago was the lack of security. I have no hesitation in agreeing with the Parliamentary Secretary when he stated that a glass partition extending to the roof is needed in this Chamber. This is a beautiful Chamber and I do not think the public will lose anything if the glass partition is erected, provided the necessary amplification is installed. We cannot be too careful about security matters at this stage. We must safeguard our Ministers and those on the front bench on both sides of the House; our first priority must be to see the senior people of the nation are safeguarded and I welcome wholeheartedly the Parliamentary Secretary's proposal.
I should like to take this opportunity of wishing the Parliamentary Secretary well in his office.
This Estimate covers a very wide area. As Deputy White has pointed out, it gives a chance to Deputies to raise in the House matters of importance to their constituents. First, I should like to compliment the Parliamentary Secretary on his appointment. His has been the only ministerial post that went west of the Shannon; he deserves it and I wish him luck. There may be only one drawback in that the Minister for Finance is a Dublin man and he may not be too liberal with money that could be usefully spent in the Office of Public Works.
Drainage seems to be a thorn in everybody's side all around the country. Much outstanding and fruitful work has been done under the Parliamentary Secretary's office through the years, especially in the last 15 years but the board, I am convinced, will have to keep an eye on the drainage already done if the land is not to become waterlogged again. At least every two years they should go back over these drains, scrape off the silt and perhaps, young rushes that will be beginning to grow and which would bring the land back to its previous condition. If drains are not cleaned every two years the growth of rushes is so fast that the drains could become clogged thus stopping the free flow of water into a lake or river as the case may be. This matter should be kept under observation and all drains should be cleaned every two years, where necessary. As far as I know, the money is provided by the local authority and the Department's machinery does the work.
It is only natural that I should be interested in the provision of Garda stations in my own part of the country. Even where sites are available progress is so slow in this regard that one asks from time to time what is wrong? What can be done to improve the situation? Is it lack of money? If it is, let us say so and say we must wait a certain time. I want to mention particularly the question of the provision of a new Garda station at Rosmuc, Co. Galway, where the site is available. Everybody knows this station was destroyed by fire. The old walls are still standing and the Board of Works do not have to seek a site. Yet, to this day gardaí of this station are inconvenienced by having to work from something smaller than a mobile home. It is difficult for them to carry out their duties in this accommodation. I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to go to the root of this matter, get the station built and let the gardai carry out their work in their own station which is long overdue.
A yearly survey is badly needed in all Garda stations not only for the benefit of the men serving there but also for that of people who call to the stations to fill application forms for passports or various other things. A certain amount is provided yearly but it is not sufficient and at least provision should be made for the painting and cleaning of these buildings. I refer particularly to the Eglington Street Garda station in Galway which lay for years with the old paint peeling off and falling on the sidewalk. One would think one was entering an old shed in the country when one went inside. If the day was warm and the gardaí had to take off their uniform jackets they could not hang them on the walls because they would come in contact with the old paint peeling off. However, this station was painted some months ago and now looks a little better but I should not like to see it or any Garda station anywhere go back to the previous state of disrepair. We should at least make provision against this happening in the future.
In reading through the Estimate I felt that it should contain more information that could be readily understood rather than have it in the form in which it was given. A few places were mentioned for certain grants but before the Estimate comes before us next year, whoever is handling it—I hope we shall all be here in the best of health—there should be a complete survey of the whole coastline and the areas where coast erosion is eating away our shores, digging into the soil and undermining or about to undermine several townlands should be marked. Specifically, I might mention Creggan in County Galway. The sea is eating away the land on the west side of the main pier there. The land overhanging the sea in a number of places there must be 60 to 100 feet high. I am open to correction here but that is how one sees it when crossing over the sea to Innisboffin. If a complete survey were made, then in regard to each place mentioned it could be stated what action was being taken and when. That information should be set out in the Estimate so that we could see how we are coping with the problem of coastal erosion. The time is fast approaching when something must be done——
Mr. Kenny
I understand that a proposal has to be made for each scheme by the local authority.
I am aware of this but I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to use his good offices and allow schemes to be considered because it appears that in some cases even when they do come up, I am sorry to say, they are not given due consideration. At least when I was a member of a local authority I know that this did happen.
In the Estimate a certain sum is mentioned for the cleaning of landing facilities on Boffin Island. I agree that this is badly needed. The shore is silting up and soon no boats will be able to get near the pier. Coast erosion has also set in on the west side of the pier there. The road has to be altered or rebuilt to keep it away from the dangerous parts which are expected to cave into the sea.
I should like to compliment the officials of the board on the job they are doing. From the Commissioners down, they have a very tough job. They are doing a fine job. In areas where drainage work is being carried out there may be a few little things which are causing annoyance or trouble. Before the machinery is moved out of the area I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to get his officials to put on a little bit of a spurt and see if anything can be done to help these people. The one that sticks out in my mind is Cornamona. There are six families at one end of it and they have asked for a little bit of drainage work to be done. It would not take any more than approximately two weeks for a drag line to do the work they are asking to have done. While the machine is on the job this work could be done for one-third of the price which it would cost if it had to be brought back in a few years' time.
In the case of fairly large rivers running into lakes where drainage work will be done over the next couple of years a survey should be carried out. The Parliamentary Secretary's predecessor with some of the officials visited the area I have in mind. I am speaking of the Upper Mask. There is a river flowing into the Upper Mask from the townland of Glentrague and emptying itself into the Upper Mask at a point In the low-nland of Drishaun. The river has altered its course down through the years with the silting up of sand.
Arable land is scarce enough for the people there to make a living on. When the Upper Mask is being drained this river should also be drained to save the arable land for the people so that they can get a little crop of potatoes and oats from it. I believe the river should be put back to its old course. The silt and sand which have been washed down from the mountains through the years should be taken out by a drag line and the trees which are growing by the side of it should be pulled away by the drag line. This river has destroyed a great deal of land. I think the north side of it is in the Parliamentary Secretary's constituency.
Mr. Kenny
Is that up around Finney?
Just west of Finney. It will be quite a while before drainage work is carried out there. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary would have a look at it during the summer and he will be able to tell the House that I spoke about it and I did not add anything to it or subtract anything from it.
My colleague, Deputy Coogan, spoke about piers. I should like to know what is the present position in regard to Rossaviel. Governments, Ministers, ex-Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries may be blamed, but that is not fair. Neither is it fair to blame the officials. From the time a scheme gets the green light until the date of commencement a couple of years will elapse, particularly if it is a big scheme. You cannot announce a scheme today and press a button tomorrow and have the machinery and the contractor on the site. We all know that. Let us not play politics. Let us state what the position is. If there are any snags let us know them, so that when we meet the people we can say to them: "It would have been started but for such-and-such a snag."
Mention was made of the fishery harbour at Galway. The Minister was asked about shelving it and what the up-to-date position is. Question No. 35 on today's Order Paper deals with that matter and will probably provide the answer.
Now that we are in the Common Market every perch of our land should be utilised to the fullest extent. Some small scheme should be introduced so that when main drainage work is being carried out farmers could get a grant from the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries to drain the water off their land, fertilise it and use it to a greater extent. Anybody who comes from a western area knows that some of the land is pretty bad. Some of it could be improved by taking the water off it and fertilising the land. If we could entice these fanners to do this work, it would be in the interest of the country and of the farmers themselves.
A complete survey should be made of all our small piers on the western and eastern seaboards to find out which of them are being worked. Small farmers have to try to land seaweed on some of these piers to manure their little crop or, as is the case in my constituency, for the weed factories, so that they can collect a few pounds for themselves. I know that what I am about to say is not relevant to the Parliamentary Secretary's Estimate but he should keep in close contact with the Department of the Gaeltadit in the case of Gaeltacht areas. Sometimes we find that a grant has been given for the reconstruction of a pier in a certain area. Anything up to £10,000 may be spent on a particular pier and one finds, when the pier has been reconstructed, that the road leading to it is not in the scheme at all and those using the pier are unable to bring any kind of vehicle whatever down to the pier. A survey should be made of all roads leading to piers and they should be put into a proper state of repair so that those using the pier will not be frustrated in their use of it.
I wish the Parliamentary Secretary every success and I am glad that, when the Taoiseach was making this appointment, he gave it to a west of Ireland man, a man who knows everything about my constituency as well as his own.
I, too, would like to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary on his appointment. I do not share the fears expressed by Deputy Geoghegan because the Ministr for Finance is a Dublin man. I would see a considerable improvement where the west is concerned under this administration as compared with the previous administration in which both the holder of this office and that of Minister for Finance were Dublin men. I have no doubt that there will be at least as much concern for the west as for elsewhere during the term of office of the present incumbent and, possibly, a great deal more concern. I wish the Parliamentary Secretary well. I should like to take this opportunity of complimenting the previous holder of the office; he was at all times very courteous and very free with information on any queries I addressed to him.
My main reason for speaking in this debate lies in the hope of drawing attention to the small amount of public money being spent in County Dublin. We are well on the way to building four new satellite cities. Tallaght is one of these. It represents the first attempt at the building of a new city and it is to be deplored that so little public money has been allocated for the provision of essential public services and amenities for the people in the new housing areas. When it was decided to extend the city deep into the heart of the county there should have been a special Government meeting and it should have been decided how these towns would be planned and built. Instead of that, building has gone on in a haphazard way. For instance, in Tallaght there has been an increase in the number of gardaí but there has been no attempt to improve the accommodation for this increased number.
The Office of Public Works spent a very small sum last year in improving the accommodation. That, I think, was in response to some words of mine in the debate on this Estimate last year. This year, they propose to spend another very small sum. One would have hoped that this expenditure would be devoted to improving conditions in the station for the gardaí and for those who sign on there on Fridays. Such is not the case. I understand the sergeant's room is to be converted for the use of a doctor. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will have another look at this and that he will recommend either the extension of the existing station or the provision of accommodation for the doctor elsewhere in the area. There is ample room for the construction of an extra prefabricated addition to the station. For some reason it was not thought advisable to extend the station. Perhaps the plans of the Department of Justice are not up to date because of the very rapid expansion in this area.
The Parliamentary Secretary, when introducing his Estimate, referred to the provision under Subhead D and said that it was mainly to cover purchases of sites for premises for Garda stations and other Government services in Dublin and the provinces. Is it planned to purchase another site for the Garda station in Tallaght, or is it planned to have a second Garda station in the area? Crime is increasing and all credit is due to the gardaí there that the rate is not much higher than it is. Little credit is due to the Office of Public Works for the manner in which they have treated Tallaght. I know the Office of Public Works are instructed how to spend the money and possibly my remarks should be more appropriately addressed to the Minister for Justice from whom the instructions come. I would appreciate it if the Parliamentary Secretary would have a look at what it is proposed to spend on the new station in Tallaght in the current year, perhaps after some consultation with the Department of Justice, and see whether it could not be spent more advantageously for the people who use the station, the gardaí and the many others who have reason to go there. I am not as familiar with the other three towns in the county and I suppose the need is not so pressing because Tallaght developed far more rapidly than any other area in the county, so I would earnestly request the Parliamentary Secretary to have another look at what it is proposed to do here. I would say that we have been penny-wise and pound-foolish in the past in regard to the maintenance of Garda stations. Much more attention should be paid to having them painted and redecorated if not annually certainly every two or three years. I pass the garda station at Sundrive Road, Crumlin, quite often. I do not think it has been painted since it was erected. It is a very fine building. It certainly has not been painted for many years. I do not know if I drew attention to this last year; if I did not, I meant to. It has not been painted in the meantime. This is a bad policy. We all know that if we do not keep our own private houses up to standard we lose more than we gain. Many Garda stations, not only in Dublin, but throughout the country, are the least decorative buildings in the areas in which they are situated.
The Parliamentary Secretary has increased the amount of money to be spent on national monuments. The amount to be spent this year is £422,400, and this represents an increase of £108,400 which is a substantial increase. I welcome this. However, I think it is unfortunate that again this year it has not been seen fit to make a contribution towards the restoration of St. Patrick's Cathedral. There will be a very important service there on Monday next. Those concerned with restoring St. Patrick's Cathedral, which has gone into a very bad state, have been finding it difficult to get sufficient cash to do the job. The State should make a contribution. In fact, it should be considered as a national monument because of its place in Irish history. The contribution which should be made is that the State would be responsible for its exterior preservation. I am sure this arrangement could be made and that the authorities who are working hard on the restoration would be glad to have discussions on these or certainly some lines which would enable the State to have some responsibility for keeping the cathedral in a proper state of repair.
We have heard much over the years about the Kennedy Memorial Hall. It is about time we thought seriously about the memorial to the late President John F. Kennedy of America. I honestly do not think that anybody has been serious about the Kennedy Memorial Hall and I suggest that the Parliamentary Secretary should propose to the Government that this idea be dropped and that instead moneys be made available for the purchase of the Dodder Valley from Templeogue to Bohernabreena. Here there is something like 1,200 acres of land zoned for amenity purposes but not one acre of this land is at this moment in the hands of the local authority, I can never see it becoming available to the people of Tallaght or County Dublin or the people of the city of Dublin in my lifetime no matter how long the Lord spares me, if some move is not made by the Government to purchase and develop the beautiful Dodder Valley. What could be more fitting than to purchase this valley and develop it with river-side walks in honour of the late President Kennedy? It could be visited by not only the people of Dublin county and city but the people of Ireland and the visitors to our shores. This idea would not exclude the building of a hall, because if the Government thought a hall was a more fitting memorial I cannot see why it could not be sited in the Dodder Valley. Not only would we be honouring a great President of America but we would be making a tremendous contribution to the amenities of Dublin county and city. I would appreciate it if the Parliamentary Secretary would give this serious and urgent consideration.
I listened to Deputy Jack Lynch when he suggested a house for the Taoiseach. I am inclined to agree with him and I think the case he made for such a house was a good case. He is a man who has just come out of that office and might very well have nothing to gain from a house being made available for the present or future Taoiseach but he came in here and he probably saw the need when he was Taoiseach. It is not easy for a person when holding the office to make a case to better that office and I am glad he made it. Whether the Government will see fit to accept the proposal he made, I do not know and it may be some years before any Government will get around to that way of thinking, but I think the Leader of the Government should have as much comfort as possible. I do not intend to go into the details Deputy Lynch dealt with but I support the idea.
This brings me to the matter of the accommodation in this House. The accommodation for Deputies needs to be improved. We have a Library, and I think I drew attention to this fact last year, in which the lights would be far better hanging from the ceiling than the way they are, up on legs on the table, because I certainly find difficulty, and other Deputies have complained of difficulty when reading newspapers or even working in the Library with such a lighting system. I think that with very little expense we could bring a vast improvement to the working comfort of Deputies.
With very little expense, also, we could improve the interview rooms or make other rooms available. We have five or six small tables around the wall in the room for interviewing people, with a large table in the centre, but it is anything but comfortable. When one has to meet constituents who go to the trouble of bringing in their problems and some may be very personal-we find sitting at the table next to us or across the room another Deputy with constituents who also may have very personal problems, and I find that they lower their voices to a whisper or, indeed, very often are not able to tell me their problems because of the fear of others hearing them. Most of us like to think that we are regarded by many constituents as their parish priest, that they can come to us and tell us their troubles where they would not tell them to other people. This relationship between Deputy and constituents is essential but it is not possible to have this relationship if we are to interview our constituents in the interview rooms provided in this House. I should like to see in the coming year some move to improve the general facilities for Deputies, particularly in regard to the two matters I have mentioned.
I should like also to see an improvement in the facilities for the ushers, and again I spoke on this last year. One very important improvement would be the provision of a separate lift, not, indeed, that I want to separate the ushers from the Deputies, so that they would not have to queue at the lift as we often have to do. If there was room in the House to provide a separate small lift to take the ushers from one floor to another, it would save them a lot of time. It would enable them to get the messages they are carrying to the various Deputies much more quickly and save them a lot of energy. There was an effort made last year to provide them with a communications system, walkie-talkies, but I have not seen it used so much lately. It could be that it was not a success or may have been dropped for some other reason. I think it a pity because I find that when I spend two or three full days here, I feel as if I have done a week's work and I am sure that the ushers, who have to spend far more time than Deputies in the House, find it far worse. I should like to hear from the Parliamentary Secretary whether it would be possible to provide a small extra lift for the exclusive use of the ushers.
I should like also to draw attention to the exterior of the House as seen when one approaches it from the Kildare Street gate.
Progress reported: Committee to sit again.