asked the Minister for Education why he refused a recent request from Donegal Vocational Education Committee to provide free transport for third level students wishing to attend the Donogh O'Malley Regional Technical College, Letterkenny, County Donegal; and if he will reconsider the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - School Transport.
71.
The free school transport scheme does not apply to students of third level institutions. Present scholarships and grants for such students are intended to assist towards the students travel as well as maintenance.
We have not asked at any time for a free school transport service to the third level institution in Letterkenny. What we did ask for —and I am now asking the Parliamentary Secretary to say why he refused us—was that we should be enabled to utilise part of our all-too-scarce scholarship moneys to subsidise transport to bring to more students the benefits of third level education because of the dispersed nature of the catchment area.
The Deputy's question does, in fact, ask for free transport and if he would look at the question he put down he would see that it does. The second point is that moneys which are voted for scholarships are voted for scholarships and cannot be diverted to any other purpose. We would be in trouble with the Committee of Public Accounts if we were to divert moneys in that way.
There could not possibly be any objection. Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that there would be no objection since part of our scholarship money is used legitimately at the moment for travelling scholarships and has been down through the years? This would be a further projection of that.
There is a difference between a travelling scholarship and the provision of a free bus service.
I do not agree.
I do not think that we would get away with this.
In view of the very serious situation which this creates for the students in a dispersed area such as the Donegal region so far as third level education is concerned, may I suggest that the Parliamentary Secretary and his Department should sit down and use their heads to find out how best they might utilise the money to give the advantage of third level education to the greatest number in the county and never mind screeches from auditors or anybody else? It can be done.
Question No. 72.
Will the Parliamentary Secretary say is he prepared to reconsider the position?
All these matters are under continuous consideration. The Deputy will appreciate that if we were to initiate a special school transport service for third level institutions, given the fact that, on average, pupils live much further away from third level institutions than from primary and secondary level institutions, the cost would be enormous. If we were to set a precedent in one part of the country, we would be under intolerable pressure to follow it everywhere else and the cost to the Exchequer and the diversion of funds from other perhaps more laudable areas in education would be very substantial.
There is the mileage limit.
This is discrimination as between those who are in a position to go to the university third level and those who go to the technical third level. There are no two ways about that.
I do not agree with the Deputy.
Have another look at it and you will come around to my point of view.
Question No. 72.
72.
asked the Minister for Education if he will remove the three-mile distance restriction on the provision of free transport for children attending all-Irish schools in Dublin city.
The three-mile limit applies to all eligible children under the free transport scheme for secondary school pupils. An exception may not be made in respect of children attending all-Irish schools in Dublin city.
Will the Minister agree that in relation to urban children, that is in Dublin and Cork—I know the question relates only to Dublin—especially in the winter with the increased volume of traffic, it would be a great easement to the minds of parents if they knew that their children could travel by bus rather than by bicycle or on foot in the dark mornings that are coming?
The question refers to all-Irish schools.
It refers to Dublin city.
It refers to all-Irish schools in Dublin city. All-Irish speaking schools in Dublin city. All schools in Dublin are Irish schools.
Once more there appears to be discrimination. All-Irish speaking schools are not all that readily available. In Ballymun, I understand, the parents have to subscribe to hire an extra teacher. They are coming in from the surrounding areas.
There is an Education Estimate before the House.
Would the Minister not consider removing the three mile ban?
Question No. 73.
May I reply to the question?
Question No. 73.
I am sorry I cannot reply.
I suppose you cannot.
I could reply but I am not allowed to do so by the Chair.
You have not got the answer.
I have.
Give it to him.
Question No. 73.
73.
asked the Minister for Education the steps he has taken to solve the dispute between CIE and the private school transport operators in County Donegal.
The dispute in question was settled following talks between CIE and the minibus operators concerned and normal services were resumed on 1st October, 1973.
Are the Parliamentary Secretary and his Department satisfied, arising from this dispute and the interest they took in bringing about a settlement, that CIE are not making money at the expense of the Department and the expense of the minibus operators? In other words, are they being paid more per mile for the transport of the students in these areas than they are prepared to give to others?
I can assure the Deputy that the accounting arrangements as between CIE and the Department are under very careful consideration at all times.
Can we expect some improvement?
I understand that we had very recent talks with them on this matter.
Has it been straightened out yet?
I hope things will be better than they were heretofore.