asked the Minister for Education if he will arrange to make sufficient funds available to vocational education committees so that free school books may be provided for all children needing them.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Free School Books.
20.
The scheme in operation was devised to assist cases of genuine hardship. I am satisfied that the funds available are sufficient to meet the reasonable needs of all such cases.
It amazes me that the Parliamentary Secretary is satisfied when it is my experience that pupils whose parents hold GMS cards— which should be a sufficient yardstick to determine they are not in a position to pay for school books—are not now getting free school books——
The Chair is waiting for the Deputy to put a question.
Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise that there seems to be a different system of allocating funds for secondary schools who get it individually and a system of block allocation for all the vocational schools in a county? Further, is he aware that a demand was made at the vocational teachers' congress last year that the allocation be doubled? Figures I have quoted in a debate here indicate that a doubling of the allocation is necessary to meet hardship cases. Does the Parliamentary Secretary not agree it is nonsensical to speak of free education when books are denied to needy pupils?
In relation to the first part of the question, it is fair to say that when the scheme was initiated there was a direct link between eligibility for free books and the holding of a GMS card. As it was found that the standards for the issue of these cards varied from one health authority to another, it was considered this was not the fairest method of allocating the grants. I can assure the Deputy that the scheme is under constant reconsideration and we hope to improve it as finances permit.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that it is not only holders of medical cards who are affected in this matter? People who up to now have qualified, for example, the non-contributory social welfare recipients and those receiving unemployment assistance, now have to pay for the books in full or in part. The system is most unsatisfactory. Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware of this?
I would remind the Deputy that this is Question Time.
I am sure the House appreciates that the decision as to whether free books should be allocated in a particular case is one for the school principal, not for the Department of Education. Therefore, my Department would not have information on specific cases such as those referred to by the Deputy.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that each pupil is given a list——
Is the Deputy aware that this has been the case for the last 20 years and that his Government did nothing about it?
Yes that is what I am trying to get back to.
(Interruptions.)
I am calling Deputy O'Connell.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that at the beginning of the academic year——
We are all aware that the Deputy's party did nothing about it for 20 years.
(Interruptions.)
I am asking that Question Time be allowed to proceed in an orderly fashion. These interruptions must cease.
The interruptions are on the other side.
Interruptions from both sides of the House must cease. I am calling Deputy O'Connell for a final supplementary question.
We are not interrupting——
I have called Deputy O'Connell. I would ask Deputy Wilson to cease interrupting.
The Chair should not pick on me. Why not call on Deputy Harte to cease interrupting?
The Chair is seeking to restore order. There are interruptions coming from this side of the House now.
We are cleaning up the mess left by Fianna Fáil as best we can.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that on entry——
Of course, he is aware.
The Deputy is not helping the Chair.
He does not want to help the Chair. On the entry of a pupil at the beginning of a school year the pupil is presented with a document relating to free books——
This is a long question. We must pass on.
It is 20 years old.
I must insist that questions be brief and pertinent.
It is a supplementary arising directly out of the question asked. In that document given to the pupil to give to his parents there is a list of people entitled to free books——
The Deputy is making a long statement. I cannot allow that. I am calling on Deputy O'Connell.
I am asking the Parliamentary Secretary if he is aware of this——
I have called Deputy O'Connell.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary providing money for categories of people listed in the document?
The Deputy is showing a flagrant disregard for the Chair——
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware——
On a point of order, is it the ruling of the Chair——
That is not a point of order.
Does the Chair object to a question that involves a certain amount of detail? Is there a limit on time and words used?
The Chair is trying to restore order and expedite questions. The Chair expects the co-operation of Deputy O'Kennedy in the matter.
The Chair interrupted Deputy Cunningham who was quite relevant. The Chair seemed to be concerned because his question was long, no more than that. Is that the ruling of the Chair?
The Chair is entitled to intervene in such matters. I am calling Deputy O'Connell.
That does not seem a reasonable ruling.
Can the Parliamentary Secretary state what proportion of applications from school authorities are rejected by the Department? The matter of block grants to schools is creating considerable concern and hardship to individuals. It was a system introduced by Fianna Fáil and it was brought to the attention of the House on a number of occasions. Would the Parliamentary Secretary consider reviewing this unjust system?
That is a very long question.
Regarding the first part of the Deputy's supplementary, I suggest that he put down a separate question. The answer to the second part of the supplementary is "yes".
A Cheann Comhairle——
I am calling Question No. 21.
May I——
You do not know what I intend to ask.
(Interruptions.)
The Chair has called Question No. 21.
May I, with your permission——
On a point of order, I would draw attention to the fact that a by-election is pending in Monaghan.
I do not wish to be ruled out of order before you——
I have given the Deputy a lot of latitude.
You have not given me any time to ask for permission to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
Mr. Kitt
I have a simple question to put.
Question No. 21.
Mr. Kitt
Can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether the holder of a medical card is entitled to free schoolbooks for his children?
(Interruptions.)
Is it not odd that after 16 years in office the Deputy is asking that question?
Question No. 21 has been called.