asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce the number of price increases authorised by him since March, 1973; and if any in-depth study has been made to identify the controllable elements in the justification of such increases.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Price Increases.
34.
Particulars of all price increases recommended to me by the National Prices Commission are available from the commission's published monthly reports which are in the Oireachtas Library and which are also circulated to each Deputy. On the days on which the monthly reports were published I indicated in a Press statement that, with certain specified exceptions, I had accepted the commission's recommendations for price increases for the firms concerned and that I would raise no objection to the implementation of these increases.
Separate announcements were made in the cases where I did not accept the National Prices Commission's recommendations. Only four such cases arose in the period in question.
Every application for a price increase is examined to ensure that any increase in price is fully justified by actual vouched increases in materials or overhead costs or by actual wage and salary increases which conform to Government guidelines. In addition the National Prices Commission have had in-depth studies of proposed increases carried out by consultants in about 70 cases since March, 1973.
In several of their reports—for example, for August-September, 1973 —the National Prices Commission have analysed the main reasons for price increases and have commented on them.
I asked for the number of price increases in the past year and the Minister has not given that information. Apparently that information is not available to the Minister. Does the Minister refuse to give the number of price increase recommendations of which he approved?
I certainly do not refuse to give the number. If we take a specific example the Deputy will see that in actual addition, some of what is contained in the annual NPC Reports could come out very differently, depending on the assumptions made. Let us take a case in point where there is a particular product and there are a number of different listed brands. Let us take an increase in the price of petrol. Do you count the increase which is listed in the NPC Report for each brand of petrol as one price rise, or do you count it four or five times? If you do not set out exactly the criteria of selection, it is possible to move the figure up and down almost at will. I have indicated that these are published in the NPC Reports and that, according to the criteria they wish to apply, people may do the simple addition sum. To answer the Deputy's question, it simply is not possible to give a single figure without dozens of pages of definitions as to exactly what the basis of selection was in each case.
I do not think this House has ever been treated to such balderdash and I have been listening to many Ministers speaking here. The Minister has taken the biscuit by his display here today. Is it not true that over 2,000 items have been increased in price in that period and that the Minister is so ashamed of his performance as Minister for Industry and Commerce that he is not willing to reveal that number to this House? Does he think he can come in here and prohibit the publishing of these price increases in the national newspapers and that the people will forget that price increases are occurring?
There are some pieces of simple abuse and some pieces of misinformation in what the Deputy has said. The statement about prohibiting the publication of price increases is simply untrue. I am sure the Deputy made it in good faith but he is wrong.
Are we to take it that all price increases will be published in the national dailies in the future?
As they have been in the past, yes, and as was given in a reply on my behalf in my absence last Thursday. In the matter of the number, the Deputy can make any tot he likes according to the criteria he chooses to use. The number of price increases is very large but it is impossible to put an exact figure on it for the reasons I have stated. It is simply a matter of definition. If, for propaganda purposes, the Deputy wants to put the figure of 2,000 on it he is welcome.
The Minister does not disagree.
Could the Minister give us from the reports of his inspectors the number of price increases which have taken place and which have not been sanctioned by anybody? Could he make that information available to the House?
I was not asked for that in the question. Obviously if one looks at the question seriously a detailed factual answer which would claim to be precise would be impossible. One could endeavour to give an approximation. If the Deputy puts down a question I will try to answer it. Obviously it is not the type of question that could be answered off the top of my head because it would require serious investigation and it is new matter.
Has there been any in-depth studies to identify the controllable elements in price increases? The Minister mentioned that there were some studies. Has he taken any positive action as a result of those inquiries?
Acting Chairman
The Minister was asked if any in-depth study was made to identify the controllable elements.
I was asked if any in-depth study had been made to identify the controllable element. I said that the NPC had in-depth studies of proposed increases carried out by consultants in about 70 cases. Some of this material has been published in the special reports of the NPC which are circulated to Deputies, some in the monthly reports. In fact, there is a vast amount of information and there has been a very substantial barrage of activity as a result of that information which very considerably exceeds the amount of price control activity in most of the countries of Europe at this time.
Can the Minister say if the National Prices Commission in their investigations into price increases have made any examination of inefficient firms or of practices obtaining that contribute to high costs of their products to the consumer?
I am not quite clear that I grasped the question entirely. Perhaps the Deputy will correct me if I misunderstand him. There are, indeed, circumstances where inefficiency on the part of firms does contribute to inflation but one is always faced with the prospect that it is very easy in such circumstances to cause bankruptcies and, indeed, to cause unemployment and if one is excessively ruthless in the application of price control one produces that result which I am sure nobody wishes. The question of producing the optimum of efficiency in all of the firms which are supplying the Irish retail market is an enormous question for which there is no simple solution although there have been initiatives in the area of management expertise going back over 20 odd years by the IMI and many other organisations. It is a real problem but not one easy of solution and it is easy to produce bankruptcies and to produce unemployment.
In the event of an insurance company seeking a price increase, does the Minister take into account the investment value of the money they have from their premiums rather than the claims made against them?
This is moving very far away but I will try to help the Deputy. From the insurance companies' point of view the manner of presentation is that they try to balance the amount gathered in premiums against the amount paid in claims and if the latter is the bigger figure then they say they are making a loss but, of course, insurance companies have large amounts of funds accruing from premiums and in other ways at their disposal from which they earn investment income and that would certainly be taken into account, if not in the publicity of the insurance companies, in the calculations of the NPC and my Department.