Vol. 272 No. 10
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he is aware that his advice to the IAOS that farmers should discontinue pig production has caused alarm and confusion in the £60 million pig industry; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
8.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he is aware that the pig industry is about to collapse; and the action he proposes to take to protect this valuable industry.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 8 together.
As I indicated in reply to a supplementary question by Deputy Collins on 1st May, I did not advise farmers to discontinue pig production.
I do not accept that the pig industry is about to collapse. The industry both here and in the other EEC countries has been passing through a difficult period due to high feed prices, a recession in demand and a fall in prices on export markets. The cycle in pig production is well known in the industry and I am satisfied that as has happened before the position of the producer must improve when the present difficulties have been overcome. The situation for producers has, of course, been mitigated by the EEC subsidy which I was able to negotiate at the meeting of the Council of Ministers on 25th March; this amounted to about £3.50 per pig in the month of April. For the immediate future I would hope that there will be beneficial effects on our pigmeat industry arising from (a) the reduction as from 1st May in the monetary compensatory charge on our exports of pigmeat to countries other than the UK and the corresponding fall in the monetary compensatory payment on Continental bacon imported into Britain (b) the special supplementary levies now payable on imports of pigmeat into the Community from third countries and (c) the additions to the list of pigmeat products on which EEC export refunds are payable.
Present indications are that feed prices will fall later this year and that export market prices for pigmeat should show an improvement.
Before I ask a supplementary question on the Parliamentary Secretary's reply I must again say to the Chair that I am having great difficulty in hearing replies because I believe the Parliamentary Secretary's amplification is not switched on.
There was a certain amount of noise in the Chamber.
I accept that. His amplification was not switched on for that long reply. I should like him to state whether he expects this House and the public to accept the statement he has just made, that his Minister did not give advice to members of a delegation from the IAOS, who met the Minister recently, that they should get out of pigs because statements attributed to the people who were present at that meeting have not been contradicted by those who were said to have made them or by the Minister himself.
The Minister discussed the position with several interested parties including those mentioned by the Deputy. He gave all the information at his disposal regarding the pig industry at present and the kind of period this is so far as pig producers are concerned, not only here but in Northern Ireland, in England and other countries. This is the cycle we are in at present. We appreciate that beef prices have increased possibly much higher than we could have anticipated some months ago and as a result the profitability of pigs has declined. That does not say that the future may not be bright again. We have to work in accordance with Community regulations. The Minister did succeed—and I think he should be congratulated on it—in getting this subsidy——
Congratulated on what?
Prices dropped that much.
——from the EEC Commission funds. I think the Minister is doing quite a good job in a difficult period so far as pig producers are concerned.
While accepting the Parliamentary Secretary's loyalty to his Minister, would the Parliamentary Secretary say that the decline and fall in the pig industry began in early November when his Government deliberately decontrolled the price of feeding stuff in an effort to win the Monaghan by-election?
The Government decontrolled the price of feeding stuff in accordance with recommendations made by the farming organisations.
That is right— blame the farmers. You should blame your colleague, the Minister for Industry and Commerce and your own colleagues in Government.
They acted in a democratic way on the advice of those who felt that de-controlling prices was the best procedure and that competition would bring them to the lowest possible level. That was the position.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary satisfied that there is no need now to consider controlling the price of feeding stuffs?
Nobody is using feeding stuffs; people have got out of pigs.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that even allowing for the £2.80 per cwt. subsidy or £3.50 per pig, the producers are now getting less for their pigs than they were getting prior to that subsidy? Is he also aware that unless there is price support or subsidy to the producer or a subsidy on feeding stuffs to tide them over this period there is very grave danger of a collapse in the industry?
As I said in the reply, the position is that pig prices, having regard to grain prices, are not as high as we would wish them to be.
Question No. 9 please.
Does the Parliamentary Secretary know that the actual price per pig is actually less than it was before that subsidy and that the producers are getting less? Does he not accept that?
I understand that the prices in the last two weeks were £23-£24 for specials and £20£21.40 for grade A.
What were they before the subsidy?
Does the Parliamentary Secretary say now to the pig producers that there is a future in the pig industry? Is he contradicting the statements made by his Minister telling the farmers that there was no future in it? It is either one thing or the other.
I am satisfied that while we have the present difficulty of selling pigmeat abroad, having regard to the prices obtaining, the profitability of pigs is not as good as we would like it to be. That is not the fault of the Minister or the Government or anybody here. Whoever would be here the position would be the same, as it is in the case of Northern Ireland and Britain. We are at present producing more bacon and pigmeat than the amount for which there is a reasonable market. I agree that the wheel will turn and as one who knows a great deal about pigs I am satisfied that the position will change again.
I would ask Deputies to help me make a little more progress at Question Time.
What will happen from 2nd June when the £1.25 million EEC subsidy will have expired?
The subsidy will not expire on 2nd June.
I had information to this effect on the Adjournment Debate with Deputy Leonard and Deputy Callanan.
It will be reduced.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the co-operative pig packing stations are losing thousands of pounds per month trying to give a reasonable price so that producers can stay in production? I agree with the Parliamentary Secretary that we should not tell people to get out of pigs but I would ask him to get tough in Brussels. If they do not give us money, get tough and tell them: "We will subsidise them ourselves and to hell with you", as the Italians are doing.
I think the Minister must have been though to get this particular subsidy from EEC funds. It was quite difficult to get it.
We have had nine question in a half-hour.
There are seven names to this question.
I should like to ask the Parliamentary Secretary if he can guarantee that the abbatoirs will have sufficient pigs for July and August?
I can give no guarantee at this stage. I have indicated what the position is and everybody opposite knows it as well as I do, the decline in profitability and the high price of feeding stuffs——
Who did that? You took off the controls.
Next question, please.
The Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary are there to cure the ills that exist.
I know you are at a low ebb now.
So are prices.
You cannot even guarantee pig supplies to your own new bacon factory in west Cork for July and August.
The next question has been called.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary telling the House that he can take no action at all to alleviate the position?
That is a silly question.
Many of your replies are very silly.
Next question, please.
9.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries the total weight of pigmeat imported into England in the last six months from Ireland.
The latest British import statistics available are for the period ended 31st December, 1973. In the six months ended on that date imports of pigmeat from here into the UK totalled 10,951 tons, product weight. I understand from the Pigs and Bacon Commission, who are the centralised exporters of Wiltshire bacon and pork carcases and cuts to Britain, that the exports of these amounted to 9,600 tons, product weight, for the latest available six months period ending on 30th April, 1974.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary tell the House by what percentage our exports of pigmeat into Britain would increase if there was a ban on the importation of third country pigmeat into Britain?
The Deputy knows well that this is a matter that has to be determined by the Council of Ministers and not by the Irish Minister alone. The Council of Ministers has determined that this wholesale ban will not apply and we must abide by the rules. That is why we entered the Community.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary give me an answer to my question which was by what percentage our exports of pigment into Britain would increase if there was a ban on the importation of third country pigment into Britain?
I would have to obtain information from the British as to the actual amount of pigmeat to be imported.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary give us that information?
The Deputy should put down a separate question.
Deputy Esmonde will not be asked any question for many years.
I am calling the next question.
We are dealing with a very important industry which is in a state of collapse at present. This will have a great effect on the whole economy. The Parliamentary Secretary has said that the rules must be obeyed but if we find that the rules are putting an important industry into the state that it is in at present must we continue to abide by these rules?
We must abide by the rules and regulations made in Europe. If the European regulations approve of the import of pigmeat from third countries we can protest and we can get help which our Minister got by the subsidy of £27 per ton——
On a point of order, there are seven names to Question No. 9 and it is such an important question that I would appreciate being permitted to ask a final supplementary.
I am trying to make some worthwhile progress at Question Time.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that under the Treaty of Rome we are entitled to preference in the marketing of our products and is the Parliamentary Secretary satisfied that we are getting preference as far as the bacon industry is concerned?
I am perfectly satisfied that the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries is looking after our interests.
