I should like now to consider some of the more detailed suggestions made in the course of the debate. Deputy Edward Collins wondered whether the Department telecommunications services should not be handed over to a private corporation. He is of the opinion that, perhaps, this would result in an increase in efficiency and, consequently, in the provision of a better service.
The Public Services Organisation review group concludes that it was not feasible to separate the postal and the telecommunications services and they recommended that the Department, like other Departments, should be reorganised on the Aireacht executive agency basis. The reorganisation of Departments along the lines recommended by the review group are being tried out in selected Departments and the position of the Post Office will be kept under review in the light of the experience in those Departments. I should add here that the Post Office Users' Council which shall be coming into being shortly — certainly before the end of the present year — shall be able also to offer views in regard to that area.
Deputy G. Fitzgerald asked for details of the major improvements carried out in the telephone service. I do not quite understand this request because not only did I mention a number of the more important major improvements in a fairly long list in my opening statement but also in the notes for Deputies which I circulated, particulars of the development of the telephone service in 1973-74 are given in some detail on pages 17, 18 and 19. It is clear that there have been major improvements as there should be and as this House and country have every right to expect in relation to the money being expanded.
Many difficulties which were the subject of frequent complaint last year in areas such as Rathmines and Balls-bridge in Dublin, and Clonmel and Dungarvan in the provinces, have been removed as a result of the installation of new exchange equipment. Some Deputies have acknowledged this in the course of the debate, for example, Deputy Griffin in relation to the Clonmel area. It is not the case that improvements in the Dublin area are being made at the expense of development in the provinces. I submit with respect to some of the Deputies concerned, that this is not the type of point which should be made in a debate of this kind. It is an irrelevant piece of point-scoring. People in the provinces want a good service in Dublin. They often have to call Dublin and go through Dublin. They cannot say "forget about Dublin", because that would be wrong.
The improvements in the service in the Dublin area are important not only for the Dublin local subscribers but also for the large number of trunk calls made to Dublin from the country and abroad. This is a matter in which there is not a real clash of interests between urban and rural areas. Subscribers in the rural areas have a right not merely to accept, but to demand improvements in Dublin. Dublin is one of the areas which has had the greatest difficulty in this matter.
Deputy Blaney and others referred to abnormal delays in answering at the Dublin exchanges. Again, this reflects the phenomenon to which I have just referred, that is, that rural Deputies are as concerned about the Dublin exchange as Dubliners. These abnormal delays, which I very much regret, were due to a number of causes, the principal being difficulties in the automatic system which result in abnormal demands being made for assistance on the manual exchange. The result is that with the staff and numbers of switchboard positions available, it is not practicable to answer many calls without delay. The very steep growth in the numbers of international calls has also been a factor. Most of the work of one of the four existing manual exchanges is now devoted to handing international calls. There is ground for hope for a real improvement here in the fairly near future. I do not want to exaggerate the extent of the improvement, but I hope it will be quite presentable.
When the new international exchange, with more sophisticated equipment, is open to take over this work later this month—indeed, I think I am due to open it next Saturday—we hope that the service from "10" will be improved. However, until the manual exchanges can be relieved of quite a lot of work which should be handled automatically by equipment, it is unlikely that it will be practicable to give the kind of prompt answering service which we would like to give at all times.
Deputy Blaney made a strong plea for the reintroduction of the "call-back" procedure for trunk calls. We would like to be able to meet his request in this regard, but in the conditions prevailing, with operators fully occupied in trying to answer calls and to connect them to the numbers required as quickly as possible, it is just not practicable to do so.
On the question of adequate staffing of exchanges referred to by Deputy Blaney, I should like to repeat that some 1,250 telephonists have been recruited throughout the country since last summer and some 200 are at present at training in Dublin alone. There is, therefore, no question of cutting back on staffing requirements. Quite the opposite. The difficulty is that in a number of exchanges we have not got the accommodation at present to enlarge the existing switchboard equipment. Again, we are trying to cope with that.
Suggestions were made that additional groups of applicants should be included in the priority categories of applications for telephones. At present, priority applications approximate to about 40 per cent of total demand, which is really remarkably high. Any increase in this proportion is considered undesirable. In regard to the point made by Deputy Power, applications for telephone service where priority is claimed on grounds of disability, are especially considered. The priority categories are reviewed from time to time with a view to ensuring that generally they represent the classes of persons for whom the telephone service is essential.
It is sometimes suggested that the priority system is being abused. I do not think it is. I would welcome from any Deputy who thinks it is being abused any evidence to that effect and I will certainly consider it and communicate with him in any particular case.
Deputy McMahon referred to the need for the Department to cooperate with other organisations providing underground plant to reduce as much as possible the dislocation caused by road or pathway openings. My Department keep in touch with local authorities, developers and other bodies, for example, to lay new duct lines when new roads are being constructed and we are endeavouring to develop these contacts as far as possible. Road or pathway openings made by the Department in the course of their essential work are re-instated in as satisfactory a manner as is possible as soon as completion of the work in hand permits. Local authorities usually carry out the permanent reinstatement work and as soon as possible after the telephone works are completed, my Department request them to have this reinstatement work done.
Deputy McMahon also said he had complaints from people in the Tallaght area that telephone applications in that area are not dealt with in chronological order. I referred to this matter before. Priority applications are, of course, taken out of the queue and given special attention. That is what we mean by "priority". Apart from this, applications which it has been necessary to defer, are generally dealt with according to date of application but this is in all cases, subject to availability of plant and equipment. Provision of underground cabling in new housing estates, for example, is dependent on development of the estate and it may well be that cable becomes available for a later applicant before it can be provided for an earlier one. It is this structural difficulty which accounts for most of the complaints which one hears on this matter.
Deputy John Kelly, Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, asked for an assurance that unauthorised interception of telephone calls—telephone tapping—was not taking place. We would be very concerned indeed if there were evidence or reason to believe that unauthorised interception —that is, interception not duly authorised by the Minister for Justice was occurring within the telephone system. My Department now, as in the past, are prepared fully to cooperate with the Minister for Justice in what might be required in this area. For obvious reasons, however, we are not in a position to give the kind of assurance sought, that is, that unauthorised interception will never take place. Nobody can guarantee that.
Apart from officers of the Department who have in the course of their work immediate access to exchange lines, switchboards, trunk lines, and so forth through which calls are made, it remains technically impossible for any person with the necessary skill and means who has or can gain physical access to the system throughout the country—whether within or outside telephone buildings, in subscriber's premises or by interfering with wires and cables—to listen in to calls. This applies to telephone systems all over the world and is a factor which in common prudence all of us who use the telephone system should be aware of.
Apart from taking certain precautionary measures, one must rely to a large extent on the integrity of telephone staffs not to engage or cooperate in unauthorised interception of calls. Crossed lines and some other faults in the system usually associated with congestion may and do cause accidental overhearing. Because at present there is an acknowledged state of congestion in the telephone system, we hear so many complaints about crossed lines. This is very regrettable and undesirable but it can only be eliminated by eliminating the congestion which causes the problem. That in turn can only be done by adequate investment. This is something which no telephone organisation has succeeded in eliminating but we hope that the cause which gives rise to it will be eliminated as improvements are effected.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach said the Department should, on aesthetic grounds, take down their overhead plants in towns. The objections to poles and cables are appreciated and an increasing proportion of the Department's plant is now being put underground. In new housing estates most of the cabling is placed underground. Arrangements are made with the builders to lay ducts at the building stage. However, while we have such huge arrears of construction work to be done to meet public demand, we cannot afford, apart from cost considerations, to devote as much effort as we should like to taking down overhead plant purely on aesthetic grounds. I think the public would understand such a system of priority.
Deputy Kelly also referred to the possibility of ineffective calls being metered as effective calls. The meters are designed to start a call only when a person lifts the instrument at the called end. The meters used by the Department are supplied and installed by reputable contractors. They are manufactured to a high standard of quality and accuracy. Meters will, of course, record if one dials a wrong number. There is no immediate remedy for this other than to claim a refund. The Department readily meet this and other kinds of bona fide claims in relation to telephone accounts.
Deputy Callanan referred to delays in completing installation of the telephone service and mentioned an applicant who had been offered a refund. As I mentioned in my opening statement, the severe storms last winter necessitated the diversion of staff from insulation work to the repair of the widespread damage caused. This seriously disrupted the installation programme and caused heavy delay in the provision of service for many applicants. In these cases, refunds of advance money paid were offered, with collection later when the Department would be in a position to start installation work. The provision of service in these outstanding places is being accorded the highest priority.
Deputy Power asked whether I had satisfied myself as to what had occurred in relation to the restoration of telephones to the fire brigade and ambulance service in Maynooth. As I already advised the Deputy by letter on 12th March last, I had full inquiries made in the matter. There was a conflict of evidence and it was not possible to establish beyond doubt when the lines were restored. In my letter I renewed my assurances to the Deputy that the telephone service to the fire brigade and ambulance service would be given top priority for maintenance. I should like to thank Deputy Power for his courteous references to the manner in which his representations were dealt with by the Department and by myself.
Mhol an Teachta Geoghegan líne telefóin a thógáil díreach idir Cor na Móna agus an Mám. Ar an ngnáthbhealach, ba chosúil gurbh ionmholta é seo ó thárla gan an dá áit seo ach cúig mhíle go leith ó chéile. Níor mhór, áfach, cuaillí agus sreanganna nua a thógáil ar feadh leath-chuid an bhealaigh ar a laghad, agus bhainfeadh costás iomarcach leis seo de bhrí nach ndéantar ach fíor-bheagán glaonna— timpeall dhá cheann sa 1ó.
D'fhiafraigh an Teachta céanna an raibh aon bhealach a bhféadfadh telefónaí aithnaechtáil go raibh glaothóir ag luadh uimhir mhí-cheart agus é ag iarraidh trunc-ghlaoigh. Tá níos mó ná caoi amháin a bhféadann an telefónaí daoine a thugann uimhir mhí-cheart a aithneachtáil, ach tuigfidh an Teachta nárbh fheiliúnach dhom mion-eolas a thúirt.
Deputy Blaney asked that consideration be given to the introduction of timing on local calls. This is one of the aspects of the telephone tariff structure which comes under review periodically. Timing of local calls is not considered practicable at present —the installation of additional equipment at every automatic exchange throughout the country would be necessary. In present conditions this suggestion, if adopted, would cause operating difficulties at many manual exchanges. However, the matter is being kept under review.
Deputy Blaney also referred to a number of recent telephone interruptions to the west and the north-west. These were mostly caused by damage to the western coaxial cable by road works. The Department have tried to eliminate or at least greatly reduce this kind of interruption by seeking the co-operation of local authorities and roadwork contractors, in particular by asking them to advise the Department in advance of their proposals so that a post office engineer could attend to ensure that damage is not caused to cables. However, it has proved very difficult to get roadwork contractors to take sufficient care in regard to potential danger of damage to telephone cables because of the use of bulldozers and so forth. Our efforts in this regard are being renewed.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Local Government referred to the problem of providing a telephone service for the people of the Black Valley in Kerry. This problem has been extensively considered on a number of times by the Department but there does not, unfortunately, appear to be any way of providing a service that would not be prohibitively costly. A solution by using a short wave air link would not be considered feasible both because of the high degree of interference and because a short wave system is not considered technically suitable for connection to the public network. If cost of the order required to give service to the relatively small number of households were incurred in this case, it would be difficult to resist demands for the provision of kiosks in other remote areas, regardless of the cost involved.
Deputy Begley also asked when an automatic service would be available in the Kerry Gaeltacht. It is planned to convert Dingle exchange to automatic working in about four years. Conversion of the other smaller exchanges in the area will follow as soon as possible afterwards.
Deputy Blaney suggested that kiosks were not provided on a uniform basis and that he believed his constituency had not been treated as well as the rest of the country. Uniform criteria are used for providing kiosks for rural areas. There are approximately 1,800 kiosks outside Dublin and of these 97 are located in County Donegal. The same Deputy suggested that kiosks are provided in rural areas only where they are expected to be self-supporting. This is not the case, as has been explained several times. In urban areas, kiosks are provided only where they are likely to pay their way, but in rural areas they are being provided on an increasingly subsidised scale according as the facilities are being extended to areas which show lower and lower use of existing public telephones. If there is any question of discrimination here, it is in the urban areas that are discriminated against. We realise the demand in rural areas and we are trying to meet that as far as it can be met without involving the State in altogether excessive expenditure in this area.
Deputies McMahon and Dowling mentioned the problem of kiosk vandalism. The Department has had this problem under constant examination. Various measures have been taken to make public telephone kiosks more resistant to damage by vandals. These include the fitting of steel plates to secure the coin boxes, the introduction of specially strengthened coin boxes which has recently begun, and the inclusion in the mechanism of some kiosks of alarm devices. The question of publicity is also being considered. The need to do everything practicable to curb wanton damage to telephone kiosks is fully recognised, and any help or suggestions towards this end will be welcomed. Deputy Blaney mentioned a particular difficulty with the 2p coin slot. His problem in this regard is probably due to vandalism. Jamming the coin slot with foreign objects is, unfortunately, a frequent occurrence.
Deputy Gallagher suggested that national schools serving areas of 70 to 80 houses could be taken as suitable sites for kiosks. It is most unlikely that this criterion could be accepted as it would involve provision of kiosks which would be very little used. As indicated already, the present system of determining priorities will continue until a better system can be devised and, in any event, until the current year's programme, which is full, has been completed. This whole matter is being considered at the present time and the Deputy's suggestion will be borne in mind.
Deputy Power and other Deputies referred to the telex service. There is generally very little complaint regarding the quality of the telex service. A large new exchange is at present in service under test conditions. This will cater for more subscribers and a big expansion in international telex traffic. Plans for the future include the expansion of the telex service to about 60 other countries or areas later this year.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Local Government referred to a dispute that affected a number of telephone exchanges in parts of the south west of the country on two week-ends recently, and he expressed the hope that there would be an early settlement of the dispute. He also said that the Department should have advertised locally and nationally that there would be inconvenience and that the names of neighbouring exchanges that were open should have been given. The action taken by the postmasters concerned was unofficial and has since stopped. Negotiations on the subject matter of the dispute are to take place shortly between the postmasters' union and the Department. It was not possible to advertise in advance the names of the exchanges that would be open and the names of those that would be closed, as the Department had no definite information about what exchanges would be affected by the closure. The Department regrets very much the inconvenience caused to the public by the unofficial action of the post masters concerned. Deputy Power said, and I quote from column 565, Volume 272 of 5th June, 1974 of the Official Report:
...there is a political influence at work which could provide a telephone more quickly for somebody who did not need it as quickly as an earlier applicant...
and at column 566 he said their was evidence of people getting telephones in his own area through political pull. Nothing is known to support the Deputy's statement. It is suggested that he should be asked, and I do ask him, to produce the evidence mentioned in his statement.
The arrangement for cutting off automatic time on local calls from coin boxes was first introduced during the war in 1944 in the Dublin and Dún Laoghaire areas. It was later extended to the few automatic areas outside Dublin. It was decided in 1959 not to place further orders for extensions for the arrangement because of cost consideration, the greatly increased numbers of kiosks and rented telephones, and the fact that the purpose of the facility was being circumvented by arrangements whereby the call parties rang back the kiosk. This decision not to go on with this was confirmed in 1963, I believe, when Deputy Hilliard was Minister. On this as on some other matters, perhaps naturally, members of the Opposition call on the Department to do things which they, while in Government, decided to desist from doing, and I shall not make too much of a meal out of that one.
Deputy Griffin drew attention to delay in telephone calls between Ballyporeen and Mitchelstown. The principal reason for this is shortage of trunk circuits in Mitchelstown, and the situation is expected to be remedied in the course of the present year.
Deputy T. Fitzpatrick, Dublin, has suggested that telephone meters should be provided in subscribers' premises enabling them to check their telephone accounts in the same way as ESB meters are provided. A meter can be provided on a rental basis to record the number of local call units recorded in respect of dialled local and trunk calls. The meter in the exchange would have to continue to be the one on which accounts are based. For the information of any Deputy and members of the public who may be interested, the rental is £1.20 a quarter and the connection fee is 15p. Those who want to have the facility of checking their accounts—and I appreciate the Deputy's point, which is an interesting one—should note the existence of these facilities and decide whether they wish to avail themselves of them.
I would now like to come to the subject of broadcasting about which a number of points were made. I would like to consider broadcasting under three heads: First, points made about broadcasting in general as a subject of the debate which covered quite a wide range; I think at least half the debate, although I have not checked the figures, was devoted to broadcasting, and about half of my own remarks also, perhaps a little more, will be devoted to the same. Then I would like to consider the very broad concept of what is called the national culture in relation to broadcasting, and finally the relation of the Irish language, part of the national culture certainly but also to be considered distinct. Those are the three areas I would like to consider.
On broadcasting generally, a number of Deputies commented either critically or in a complimentary way on various programmes on RTE. I think the House understands it is the usage that it would not be appropriate for me to comment on particular broadcasts and especially not on particular broadcasters, but I know that the authority and the broadcasters themselves take careful note of what is said during this debate. I would only like to make the general point that I was interested in and impressed by the very general support which exists among Deputies, presumably their constituents also, for what is being done in radio. I think comments in relation to radio tend to be, on the whole, more favourable than those on television. Perhaps this has something to do with the nature of the medium. I do not know.
Deputies Moore, Dowling and Blaney suggested that extra money should be provided to improve RTE's existing services, and that if there is to be a second channel it should be operated by RTE. None of these Deputies comes from the single channel area, and the information available to the Department would suggest that the viewers in the single channel area would not regard a second RTE channel as giving them a real choice if the BBC service can be provided instead. It is agreed that RTE should be enabled to continue to develop and, in particular, to provide more locallyoriginated material irrespective of what programme service is transmitted on the second channel.
As I have said in this debate, I am interested in defending the standard of service provided by RTE as against outside competition. I believe also in permitting more outside competition. I agree that it increases the financial burden on RTE. I think the State should meet that burden in order to support not merely present standards but an improvement of the standards. I also believe that the natural and proper way for RTE to meet this competition—the way in which it can in fact serve its natural audience even in competition—is by extending the number and improving the quality of home-produced programmes. I personally would like to see the emphasis on development in RTE go on to that. I do realise that it takes money.
Deputy Brugha on the open broadcasting concept, which I mentioned at the outset, drew a distinction between relaying the BBC by cable and relaying it by means of transmitters. He opposed the idea of handling over a television channel to a foreign broadcasting corporation. There seems to be some slight confusion here. The actual network of transmitters now being erected—and this is not just an idea; it is something which is going ahead— would, of course, remain under State control. This Government favours using this network to transmit BBC 1, Northern Ireland or UTV. If, after a few years, the people decide they do not want this type of programme, or if a future Government were to decide that the second network should be used for something else, then they would, and must, be quite free to take such a decision. No control would have been lost and nothing would have been handed over. I hope this will become very clear as a result of this discussion.
However, the distinction between relaying the BBC by cable and by transmitter, made later in the debate by Deputy Power, expresses a view certainly held by some Members of the Opposition. Deputy Power said, at column 575 of Volume 273, No. 4 of Wednesday, 5th June, 1974:
It can be said that the BBC programmes are being beamed to the people in the eastern part of the country at the moment, but there is no official recognition of that. What the Minister has in mind would be likely to give official recognition to that. The effect would be that we would lose our identity still more.
In other words—and this is what I said at the outset in a phrase to which Deputy Colley took very strong exception—I said that we objected not to listening to the BBC or viewing BBC but to admitting that we listened to and viewed BBC, or that some people did. Of course, that is exactly what is in that statement by Deputy Power on the record of this House. In other words, our identity is threatened, not by a certain fact but by the recognition of that fact. I am afraid this attitude is still all too frequent in what used to be called the party of reality.
For my part, I do not share in the general sense of insecurity about the Irish identity which seems to affect some Members of this House. I do not feel, as does Deputy Blaney, that we have been weakening as a people for quite a considerable time. I think we do our best service to the national identity by having the confidence to live our own individual lives in accordance with our own varying tastes and opinions—and they are varied—and I shall come back to this matter later, if you will allow me, Sir, in a much more extended way.
Deputy Moore urged that the advertising of drink on RTE should be stopped. This is an interesting point and I know there is rather widespread feeling to that effect. The Minister's statutory function in relation to RTE advertising is limited to section 20, subsection (3) of the Broadcasting Authority Act, 1960, which lays down that the total daily time fixed by the authority for broadcasting advertisements and the distribution of that time throughout the programme is subject to the approval of the Minister. Advertisements for spirits—hard liquors—are not taken by RTE. The advertising of other alcoholic drinks accounted for about 7 per cent, £287,000, of RTE's revenue from advertisements in 1972-73. For some years past there have been criticisms about drink advertisements. Following joint consultations between the Department of Health, RTE and the Post Office about advertising of alcoholic drinks on television, the authority introduced a stricter code for such advertisements in November, 1973. The question of advertisements for alcoholic drink on radio and television must be considered in the context of the general question of advertising in all the media. A complete prohibition on radio and TV advertisements might merely result in diversion of the money formerly spent on these to advertisements in the other media.
Deputy Moore suggested that RTE radio and television transmitters should be increased in power so that they could be received in Britain. RTE television is not receivable in Britain, apart from Wales into which our signals go with much the same effectiveness as Welsh signals come in here along the east coast. The normal range of a television transmitter is about 60 miles.
In radio, reception of Athlone transmissions on 530 metres stretches broadly to areas west of a line from Bristol, through Leeds to Edinburgh. The distance at which reception of Irish programmes may be obtained depends, to an extent, upon the sensitivity of receiving and aerial equipment. The Athlone transmitter is being replaced by a more powerful one and this should give improved reception of RTE radio in Britain.
On the question of colour, Deputy Dowling complained that old age pensioners and veterans of the War of Independence who have colour television sets have to pay for colour television licences. The Departments of Social Welfare and Defence administer the television licence schemes for certain old age pensioners and veterans of the War of Independence. The Department of Posts and Telegraphs acts as agents for the Departments in operating the scheme. With the introduction of the special colour licence fee of £15 on 1st October 1973, the Departments of Social Welfare and Defence decided that they would pay for the monochrome element only, £9, in the new fee. Eligible pensioners with colour television sets are obliged to pay the difference between the cost of a colour licence and a monocrome licence, £6. Any amendment of the conditions attached to the operation of the scheme is a matter for the Departments concerned.
The question of a shortwave station is something of a perennial. It was raised by Deputy Dowling and Deputy Blaney also urged that our programmes be beamed outwardly towards Europe. The Government, in July, 1945, decided that a high power shortwave broadcasting station should be established to serve North America, Australia and the South Pacific, Europe and South America. Equipment was purchased and some work was done on the project but it was eventually abandoned in the early 1950s. The reason for not proceeding with the station were (1) the difficulty of getting a suitable wavelength; (2) the negligible amount of shortwave listening throughout the world because of poor listening conditions; (3) the general absence of shortwave bands on radio sets in America, and (4) the appeal of television which was likely to reduce radio audiences in general. I am satisfied that these reasons were sound; that they have not been weakened subsequently and in fact some of them have been strengthened.
There is still no international shortwave allocation plan. While there is a procedure under the International Telecommunications Union to be adopted in connection with the use of high frequency wavebands there is no compulsion on administrations to stick to a particular frequency. In practice many administrations change their frequencies to suit actual propagation and interference conditions in order to achieve a satisfactory service. There is no evidence of any significant increase in the number of radio sets capable of receiving international shortwave broadcasts. Because of the technical difficulty and the practical drawbacks the Broadcasting Review Committee was not satisfied that there was sufficient justification existing for the provision of a shortwave broadcasting service. The provision of such a service at this stage would be very expensive. The cost of equipment alone would probably be in the region of £500,000. I am fully satisfied that such an expenditure would not be justified.
Deputy Blaney complained that, as far as the broadcasting of news and views on the Six Counties problem was concerned, there has not been a fair deal given to a point of view other than the point of view of the Establishment, whether this Government or the last. Deputy Blaney suggested here, and let me quote from Volume 273, No. 3, of the Official Report of Thursday 30th May, 1974, at columns 424-5:
...but is a real effort on the part of one person out of 144——
He is referring to himself——
who does not hold the same views as the majority—I might add that the shame is on the House that this is the situation.
The shame is on the House that not everybody agrees with Deputy Blaney.
One Deputy does not hold the views of the other 143, if one considers the odd statements made by the respective leaders. Because I am only one out of 144, this does not mean that I should be allowed only a 144th part of the time given to news of our national problem and on the problem of the Six Counties generally.
Then I interjected: "Why not? The Deputy gets much more."
Mr. Blaney: I am trying to explain that it would be totally wrong to hold that because there is only one out of 144 in discord with others on such an important matter he should be allowed only 144th part. It is the other side of the story and, disproportionate though it may seem, it should be entitled to almost as much or equal time as the Establishment or those holding the bipartisan approach so far as the national broadcasting system is concerned.
So, Deputy Blaney is asking for equal time on broadcasting to the whole rest of this House. I think that is a highly exaggerated claim and I think the House and most people will think the same. I agree that where there is a minority view it not merely ought to, but will be likely to get an amount of time disproportionate to the number of people actually holding that view. It is reasonable that it should. But, in fact, Deputy Blaney gets more than average coverage; he gets more coverage than any other non-front bench TD. The fact is that when Deputy Blaney speaks there is felt to be a sort of whiff of blood about his remarks and that tends to attract the media. That, also, is an unfortunate fact but an existing one. He has no legitimate complaint whatever about not being adequately covered.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, Deputy Kelly, suggested that section 31 (2) of the Broadcasting Authority Act, 1960, should be used to put across messages on social problems about which, broadly speaking, there is consensus. Essentially, this suggestion concerns day-to-day programming which comes within the bailiwick of the RTE Authority. The authority will no doubt consider the desirability of putting on programmes dealing with the type of problems the Parliamentary Secretary has in mind. When the broadcasting authority was being established the intention was that it should have the maximum freedom in programme matters and matters of day-to-day administration. The power given to the Minister in section 31 (2) is limited and does not cover the type of thing the Parliamentary Secretary has in mind. It is felt that the scope of the subsection should not be widened. The subsection provides that the Minister may direct the authority in writing to allocate broadcasting time for any announcement by or on behalf of any Minister of State in connection with the functions of that Minister of State and the authority shall comply with the direction. In practice the authority broadcasts public service announcements on behalf of Government Departments without charge and without a direction from the Minister. Messages like those of the Department of Health concerning smoking are, however, charged for as advertisements. It is not my present intention to change that.
Deputy Gene Fitzgerald asked why RTE's advertising revenue declined towards the end of the last financial year and why this state of affairs was continuing. Advertising income is very sensitive to movements in the economy generally. The advent of the power strike and the three-day week in England towards the end of last year severely hit RTE's advertising sales. The former buoyancy has not returned following the easing of the energy situation and the return to full working in England. RTE informed me that because of the general, worldwide economic uncertainty advertisers continue at present to be reluctant to make any long-term commitments on advertising expenditure.
Deputy Colley made a number of points some of which related to broadcasting specifically and some related to the concept of national culture. At this stage I should like to take his comments specifically affecting broadcasting. He made the point that broadcasting time not being used by Radio na Gaeltachta should be available for other purposes. I agree, and this is being done. We are in fact giving, as listeners throughout the country will have noticed, much wider choice— stepped up, I think from something like 20 to 150 hours in which choice is available—on radio. I am in favour of stepping that up with more effective and more economic use of present equipment and facilities to perhaps 1,000 hours, moving in the general direction of a second radio channel. That would be an economic use of what we have and I see more merit in it for the moment than I do in a second television channel.
He then spoke about the open broadcasting concept and about taking of foreign service from Northern Ireland which did not reflect the aspirations of the people of Northern Ireland. The situation whereby the services that come to us from Northern Ireland are linked to British services. ITV and BBC, exists because the majority of the population of Northern Ireland have wanted it that way. You cannot therefore say that these services do not reflect the aspirations of these people if that is the way the majority of them have wanted it, unless you say at the same time: "We know what all the people of Northern Ireland should aspire to and when they aspire to that we shall listen to them."
The fact is that we must take account not only of what the minority there want—although we should take account of that—but also of what the majority want. It may be that will change and that the majority in Norther Ireland will, after a given time, no longer want this and the situation will change. In those conditions, if what we would be hearing would be something that did reflect the aspiration of the majority in Northern Ireland and although it were a Loyalist aspiration couched in Loyalist language would the gentlemen opposite be all that keen to hear and see it? Personally I think we should be prepared to hear and see it.
These are the difficulties: It is no use just saying: "This is a British service; it reflects nothing about Northern Ireland." It is there only because a majority of the people of Northern Ireland want it. We are constantly dodging that point because we do not like it but we should concerntrate our minds on it.
He then spoke of how I should insist on reciprocity whenever I am negotiating with Merlyn Rees or with Roy Jenkins, I should say: "By the way, one of these ideas is tied with the other and you cannot have one without the other." The fact is that the British, as such, do not particularly want either: they do not particularly want us to have BBC 1 and they do not particularly want the inhabitants of Northern Ireland to receive RTE. It is from us that the push comes on both of these, not because of some little idea of my own but because a very sizeable minority in Northern Ireland want to be able to receive RTE, and because a very sizeable section of the people in the south and west want to receive BBC. It is as simple as that and I am merely expressing that dual wish. I wish to express it as effectively as possible, not by making debating points or striking attitudes about how I must have reciprocity—to which I would get the answer: "Too bad, we do not care whether you get reciprocity or not". All I want to do is to get progress on both these fronts. The fact is that some gentlemen in this House are more interested in striking attitudes about British than in getting results in negotiations——
