Vol. 275 No. 5
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries the help he proposes to give to small farmers along the western seaboard to enable them to keep their cattle alive until next summer's grass is available, as there is no market for cattle at present.
59.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if, in view of the plight of small farmers along the western seaboard due to over-stocking of cattle, lack of a market for them and scarcity of fodder, he will arrange with the Minister for Finance for a £5 million subsidy to enable cereals, and so on, which will have to be imported, to be sold at half-price to keep the cattle alive until next summer's grass is available.
60.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries the proposals he has to provide aid for farmers who are overstocked with young cattle and who have insufficient fodder for them.
61.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if, in respect of all cattle under 2½ years which are carried over during the coming winter, he will arrange for the payment of a headage grant to each herdowner whose valuation is under £50; and if he will undertake a review of this scheme before 1st April, 1975.
62.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he is aware of the disastrous position of farmers with young cattle this winter; and the steps he intends to take by way of direct payment to the holders of these cattle.
63.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he will consider one of the following ways to help farmers with young cattle: (a) direct payment of £20 per beast for the first 30 beasts under 6½ cwt. (b) doubling the 1974 beef incentive grant for the first 30 cows or (c) the establishment of a minimum price per cwt. across the board for all cattle, which could be operated through the marts.
64.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he is aware that the position of farmers with a large number of surplus cows and calves which have been purchased by loans will not be solved by further loans; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
65.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if it is his intention to operate an animal feed subsidy to assist small cattle producers in the west of Ireland.
66.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he will introduce a system of direct cash payments to small farmers in view of the fact that there is no market for young cattle.
67.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he has any proposals to assist the producers of small store cattle who are in serious financial difficulties due to the disastrous prices being offered at present for these cattle.
68.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he has any contingency plans to be put into operation this winter to help farmers unable to sell store cattle because of the bad prices prevailing and who have not sufficient fodder to feed them.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 58 to 68, together. I am aware that there are record numbers of cattle on farms at present and that many small farmers have been unable to sell them at reasonable prices. In many cases these farmers are unable to provide feeding stuffs from their own resources to carry their stock over the winter. This problem is not confined to any one area but is most acute in counties west of the Shannon and in some midland counties.
To meet this exceptional situation I am introducing a scheme of short-term loans at a very low interest rate to enable the farmers concerned to buy feeding stuffs to enable them to carry their cattle over the winter. These loans will be confined to farmers whose rateable valuation on land does not exceed £50. Under the scheme an eligible farmer will be able to borrow up to a maximum of £500 at an interest rate of 4-5 per cent which will be repayable after a period of six months, or if the cattle are sold, before the termination of that period. The scheme is, of course, subject to clearance by the EEC Commission which I hope to get very shortly.
I would also like to refer to the recent agreement by the meat processors to create a fund to be used to assist small farmers to buy feeding stuffs at reduced prices.
I am in principle opposed to additional national aids for agriculture. They are calculated to lead to counter action by other members of the EEC which are better placed to undertake such aids. In any event I am satisfied that the measures I have referred to will relieve cases of real hardship. I am also satisfied that the provision of credit is an appropriate measure to this end.
Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that it is next to impossible for the type of small farmer who needs assistance to borrow money and that even in the process of borrowing, if he is able to, it takes so long that any help that may come will be of no assistance to him? It is necessary to import large quantities of grain and this should be subsidised. The cattle people believe that up to £100 million worth of cattle are in danger this year because we have not the food or the quality of food available to feed them. There is a necessity for immediate aid by way of subsidy and I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to convey this to the Minister and the Government.
The Minister has already dealt with this question sympathetically. As indicated in the course of my reply, the Minister is making available to small farmers loans of up to £500 through the Agricultural Credit Corporation and the State is subsidising the interest rate by 8 per cent. In my view this is a very reasonable gesture and coupled with the aids that can be secured through the meat exporters' levy of 1p per lb to help in the purchase of feedingstuffs both should measure up to the special requirements that exist at present.
May I convey to the Parliamentary Secretary that the opportunity of borrowing further money for people who have already borrowed from the Agricultural Credit Corporation is practically nil? This is the message I am trying to get across. As far as we know, anything up to 6,000 cattle are doomed to die in Kerry this year alone. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary again to convey to the Minister the urgency of this and the necessity of trying to subsidise feedingstuffs. First, you have to get the material in and it would take so long to arrange loans the material would not be in the country in time to save those cattle.
I am satisfied that the Agricultural Credit Corporation will deal with such applications sympathetically. The proposed loans will not extend over a period of more than six months. The interest rates will be somewhere in the region of 4-5 per cent so far as the farmer is concerned, as the State is bearing the greater burden of 8 per cent. I am well aware of the anxiety of the Deputies who tabled the 11 questions being replied to and of the position of small farmers who are anxious to hold on to young cattle until, possibly next March or April in the hope that prices will improve. I know it is difficult for farmers in Counties Kerry and Galway and in the other counties represented by the Deputies who have tabled questions. However, as indicated in the reply, I think the Minister's aids—the maximum £500 loan together with the meat exporter's levy of 1p in the £ further to help in the provision of feedingstuffs—must be taken in conjunction with the direct payments to many of these farmers from the Exchequer. The reason I mentioned direct payments is because in several of the questions, Deputies asked for direct payments from the Exchequer to the farmers themselves. Many farmers in such areas are already in receipt of direct payments from the Exchequer and such payments were increased substantially within the past 17 or 18 months. Therefore, such payments, together with the aids mentioned in the reply——
What payments is the Parliamentary Secretary talking about? The ones that have increased in the last few months?
I am talking about the aids which farmers in the areas mentioned in the questions are getting from the Exchequer.
The Parliamentary Secretary said they have been increased in the last 18 months. What are they?
They are the social welfare aids.
This is a most important item so far as the small farmers are concerned. I should like to ask three or four questions together and I hope the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will allow me some time on them. Might I ask the Parliamentary Secretary if he is aware that the majority of farmers involved in the over-stocking of cattle are already working on borrowed money? Is he aware that he is putting a further millstone around the necks of those farmers if they borrow further, even at a low interest rate? Is he further aware that if, say, three farmers go to buy feedingstuffs with borrowed money—unless the Minister implements the suggestion contained in Deputy O'Connor's Question, No. 59 —at a market where feedingstuff is now £60 per ton, it will automatically go to £100 per ton immediately? Therefore, it will go beyond their means. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary is aware of this because there is no use fooling ourselves; the stuff just is not there at present unless money is got somewhere and that is why these questions are so important. The Parliamentary Secretary spoke about increases in social welfare. He is right up to a point because it is a sad thing—and the Parliamentary Secretary is aware of it—that so many of our farmers are on social welfare at present.
The Deputy cannot enter into an argument during Question Time.
There are 11 questions involved. I hope the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will give us a chance to ask four or five questions on each of the 11.
As I indicated, the Minister is well aware of the hardship on farmers, by virtue of the recession in prices, particularly of small cattle. Of course, it is no harm to state here that such reductions in the prices of small cattle are in no way due to internal circumstances but to the external circumstances referred to here by the Minister for Finance in the course of replies to questions earlier today. Deputy Callanan is assuming that all small farmers have to borrow money and that they are all in the red, so to speak. I do not agree with him in that respect. I am particularly mindful of small farmers —possibly as much as is any other Deputy here—but we shall leave that question for the moment. This is a help on the part of the State to those farmers who, as indicated in the reply, are anxious to hold on to their cattle for six months longer.
They cannot sell them.
I indicated, that they are likely to get a sympathetic hearing from the Agricultural Credit Corporation. Now the State is subsidising the loans to the extent of 8 per cent. I think that is reasonably generous, particularly if Deputies Callanan and O'Connor take into account that, once we were approved as a member of the EEC, national aids and subsidies to agriculture were to disappear. That was one of the main advantages. At a time when there is a general world depression—one need not say a European depression—the Minister is making a special gesture so far as the small farmers are concerned. I ask Deputies to accept the good faith of that gesture and, if there is a change in circumstances, the position undoubtedly will be reviewed by the Minister because he is most sympathetically disposed towards the small farmers.
The Parliamentary Secretary speaks of short-term loans of £500 but, if he knows anything about farming he must know that £500 would not buy many cattle or very much hay at present. Hay is bringing in £1 per bale at present. On a short-term loan of six months—the maximum about which the Parliamentary Secretary was speaking—if the farmer were feeding his stock hay alone, the animals would be emerging with the hair standing on their backs; certainly, next March or April they would not be in a fit condition to be sold on the open market.
The Deputy should adhere to questions and not make statements.
The Parliamentary Secretary does not realise the serious situation for not alone small farmers but medium-sized ones also.
This series of questions is giving rise to a discussion and not to questions and answers.
Would the Minister reconsider the position and grant them unlimited loans, interest free? The sum of £500 is a pittance——
The Deputy is again making a statement.
It is a disgrace for the Parliamentary Secretary to turn around and say: "We will give farmers £500 at an interest rate of 4 to 5 per cent." The Parliamentary Secretary spoke about a 1p in the £ levy being stopped by the exporters. How is this to be paid to the farmers?
Question No. 69.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary reconsider the situation and be somewhat realistic about it because he is not being so at present?
The Parliamentary Secretary stated that EEC regulations prevent us subsidising feed for cattle. When it suited the Germans they brought in meat and broke the regulations and the Italians did the same. We have a crisis in this country. I am glad the Parliamentary Secretary made the point that many people have the money to purchase feed but they will not purchase it at £60 per ton. They need feed at £30 per ton or else they will have to let the cattle die.
Perhaps the Deputy would tell me where it is possible to get feed at £30 per ton at the moment?
Deputies are now entering into argument. There are more than 300 questions on the Order Paper and I would ask Deputies to allow some progress to be made.
The State cannot be looked upon as some kind of benevolent fairy godmother, that money will fall from heaven.
It has a duty to save our national asset.
It is measuring up to that duty.
We cannot have any more arguments on the matter.
If we do not save the industry we will suffer a loss of more than £100 million.
What we are giving is a contribution. In the case of a farmer who needs £800 or £900 in order to keep cattle for an extra six months, the £500 would be a contribution towards the cost. I do not know if Deputy Allen is aware that it is confined to farmers who have a valuation of less than £50 and possibly farmers in the centre of Ireland will not qualify.
The Parliamentary Secretary did not give a reply to the question of the levy.
All of us know the price of animal feed at the moment but I would inform the Parliamentary Secretary of a source where he might have got the feed, although I do not think he will get it now. The millers were taking in sprouted wheat at £17.50 per ton and I knew an unfortunate man in my constituency who drove 40 miles with 12 ton of grain but he was turned back because he would not accept the price. He had to go 20 miles further to get £27 per ton. If the Department had their eyes open and their ears to the ground they would know what was happening.
So far as departmental advice is concerned, the present indications are that cattle prices are likely to improve and I am sure all Deputies are glad to hear that. Every effort is being made, particularly in Europe, to try to get any advantage it is possible to obtain for our farmers. In the course of a later question we will be dealing specifically with the matter of 1p per lb. which was mentioned. It is collected through the meat exporters and it will be available to farmers up to a maximum of £30 in the case of any farmer to enable him to buy foodstuffs at a rate of £1.50 per cwt. These matters will be dealt with in more detail in subsequent questions.
The Parliamentary Secretary has stated that there are record numbers of cattle in stock at the present time. Why was there a failure on the part of farmers to sell the cattle?
The reason is that Deputy Gibbons and Deputy Crinion advised farmers not to sell their stock. The two Deputies gave this advice very firmly and forcefully. They took up the time of this House in an Adjournment debate——
That is total nonsense.
It is a factual appraisal of the position.
I am calling the next question. We have spent more than 20 minutes on this question.
I wish to raise this matter on the Adjournment. Will it have to wait until next week?
It will have to wait.
I also give notice that I will raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of the questions in my name.
The Deputy will have to give notice on the next sitting day of the Dáil.
The Parliamentary Secretary has spoken of the approaches to be made by the Department regarding the purchase of meal. Where does he expect it to come from? If it is imported will MCAs be payable?
I wish to inform Deputy Callanan he will have to repeat his indication to raise the questions on the next day.
I have asked the Parliamentary Secretary if MCAs will be payable?
Home feeding stuffs will be provided.
Will MCAs be payable?
They will be provided at £1.50. There will be a reduction of £2.50 per cwt.
Where will the meal come from?
I hope that most of it will come from our Irish fields.
The Parliamentary Secretary has been speaking utter nonsense.
I have given a factual account of what is happening.
I am calling Question No. 69.
