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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 6 Mar 1975

Vol. 279 No. 1

Wealth Tax Bill, 1975: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Before the debate was adjourned I was trying to express certain views on the implications of the Bill with particular regard to the main aim of the Bill which is to tax land which is subject to rating. One could summarise the Bill by saying that it provides that the first collection of wealth tax will be due in April next for 1974-75. When the Minister spoke some time ago in terms of a wealth tax he did not state clearly that the effects of the Bill would begin so early. He did not indicate then that he would begin to collect this year. Therefore, this tax proposal will take many people by surprise.

There are many sides to it, one of them being that the Bill discriminates to some extent in favour of farmers and against Irish companies. It is a fantastic situation to find in the Bill that the companies doing least well are liable to be put out of business. There are old established Irish companies who this year, because of cash flow, or liquidity, to put a nice word on it, were in some difficulties in regard to raw materials. The Bill will create a position in which these companies will suffer heavily. We must bear in mind that while profits might be diminishing the assets will still be taxed.

One could understand this sort of tax arrangement in a buoyant economy but it is difficult to understand it in a no-go situation—perhaps it is unfair to describe it in that way. However, our economy is seriously affected this year in many ways and the Minister is especially penalising old established family companies who have been in business for many years and who have stood the test in good times and bad. Such companies in the future will find it much more difficult to manage, particularly against the background of EEC membership when we are reducing tariffs progressively, when competition will be more aggressive, when goods from abroad will be sold here, some of them at fancy prices and some of them at dump prices.

We have a position at the moment in which trade unions are threatening to black goods at the docks at the Custom House and is it not fantastic that we should lean on the companies who are finding it hardest to make headway?

This tax will apply above certain thresholds. When one talks in terms of £80,000, £90,000 or £100,000 it seems to mean a lot of money but we must relate that sort of money to what it takes to bring even a small business unit into being. Such investment would enable the employment of fewer than 100 people and it would not go far to provide even a small unit at prevailing costs. Therefore, one must look beyond the Minister's explanations in regard to the effects of the Bill and try to visualise the difficult position the companies I have been speaking about will find themselves in, particularly in the background of competition in and from Europe and the dumping of goods from Third World countries against which we have no effective remedy.

The NESC report refers to the fact that from 1976 to 1980 we would need to generate 25,000 new jobs per year. Indeed, in the next breath, the same report said it might even go so far as to say we should generate 36,000 news jobs. Be that as it may, I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel because at present we are slow enough in generating jobs. Even with our best efforts over the years the number of jobs generated were not much in excess of the numbers leaving rural areas. Therefore, I do not see any light at the end of the tunnel as to what approach we should be making in generating those jobs. Certainly, we are not going to make this approach more attractive to investors at home or abroad by taxing productive assets. That is the really aggressive part of this Wealth Tax Bill.

It is all very well for the Minister and his chief apologists to say it is an individual matter. We know that. Of course individuals pay tax but, collectively, they make up the community. It is easy enough to say we are rifling the pockets of individuals separately. It is our contention at present, and in the light of the difficulties encountered in the economy during the past year, that the timing of this Bill is wrong. Certainly, it will have the effect of discouraging, if not paralysing, the efforts of our industrialists in investing at home and will not encourage the investor from abroad. In fact, there is one provision in the Bill under which an investor from abroad could find himself not merely paying tax here but to the British Exchequer as well. Therefore, if you like, it is a double-barrelled gun held to the head of the most productive members of our community and this at a time when we never needed more the aid of the most enterprising amongst us and the techniques and mechanics of investment.

It is all right to say that a few family companies could go bankrupt. Indeed they could, and will, with the enactment of this legislation. There is no doubt about that because it will bear heavily on family-promoted industry. There has been a lot of criticism of such family-promoted industry, that they did not re-jig the fabric of their companies or orientate them to the new set-up in Europe and so on. Nonetheless, through those industries we were able to maintain employment here, and not merely maintain it but reach out from there and attract investors from abroad. I am merely wondering what way investors from abroad will view this legislation considering that its provisions are to be applied to global wealth.

During the last two or three years it has become almost a crime to be engaged in private enterprise, when private enterprise, is, as Mr. Edward Heath said, the unacceptable face of capitalism. One does not have to be a capitalist here to indulge in private enterprise. One does not have to be a capitalist to promote small industry here. In the past those were the people we tried to foster, from whom to branch out and, in so branching out, to gather in the experience, the cash and the updated techniques of those in Europe and elsewhere.

This tax applies above certain thresholds; it taxes discretionary trusts and private, non-trading companies. One could speak for some time on the implications of that aim and condemn that aspect of the Bill. I fear it will have the effect that before any industrialist, promoter of industry, or anyone with money will invest here, he will look twice at the economic situation and examine it very thoroughly. He will examine our prospects on the labour market, what skills and techniques there are here. As in the past, he will not merely take our word for it, seeing that we have here a weapon to use on him when he comes in. Similarly it will apply to the investor at home, the man who has carried the can down through the years. Admittedly we protected him but he was in need of it at the beginning. As I said earlier, we started at a very low level. But, moving away from the trappings of protection, we should take care that this is not used as a mallet to discourage industry and other investment here.

There is also the further aim of this Bill, which is to "clobber" the individual who owns a piece of land near an urban area. His land is supposed to be enhanced because he may own a few acres on the edge of a town. I suppose it could be said that such land could be used for many purposes, such as for industrial development, the building of houses and so on. Mind you, it will not cheapen the end product in regard to houses. When one begins to "clobber" the man providing sites for houses—and this is very plain from this Bill—it will not cheapen the provision of sites for industry either. As the Yanks say at present, it is fantastic the way costs are escalating and, at the same time, prices increasing.

With regard to the numbers unemployed, at least in the bad old days —and they were bad—when there was high unemployment prices usually fell. Now, due to the ramifications of governments here and abroad, we have a distorted scene in business, and prices are likely to continue to rise rather than fall. In the end I am afraid we will not generate job opportunities, even at a much lower target than was indicated by the NESC. If we were not able to do it in the past when taxation was relatively lower than it is now, when we had more or less price stability, and when we had much more favourable opportunities, when we were not able to generate many more jobs than what left agriculture yearly, then I do not see the prospects that rosy. I regret this because one does not like being cast in the role of a prophet of doom. One would like to see reasonable prospects for both industry and agriculture, but this is not possible.

This Bill has implications which in the long run will lead to undesirable results. It will discourage employment, will discourage the potential employer and will, in general, discourage investment from abroad. It must be borne in mind that our economy is still based on private enterprise. We are practising one thing and preaching another. We cannot have it both ways. If we start tampering in the area of fancy doctrinaire socialism, we are bound to injure the people who want to work and who would work here if they were left their money. When it is going to be taken from them in this way there is no incentive either to invest here or for the future. As I said earlier, I think the Minister should withdraw the Bill and have it considered by a Committee of the House.

The Bill before the House is probably one of the most important pieces of legislation we have seen for a long time. The Minister, in his opening remarks yesterday, stated that it was in part substitution for the present system of death duties. When the National Coalition Government were campaigning in the last election, one of the commitments we made was that death duties would be abolished. Naturally, something had to take its place and wealth tax was mentioned. I was one of those people who, when the change of Government took place, pressurised the Minister day after day as to when he intended to implement this promise. I certainly did not realise, and I do not think anybody else realised either, how much was involved in the proposals, the amount of research and so on that had to go into preparing the legislation we are now discussing. Looking back, I think it is a tremendous achievement to be at this stage two years later. If the Minister does nothing else in his time as Minister for Finance but abolish the iniquitous taxation known as death duties, he will leave a monument to himself for all time.

I sympathise with those who are going to be caught in this net. I sympathise especially with those who are lucky enough to have been able to make provision to cushion their families against the impact of death duties when they would have departed. However, I am thinking more in terms of the thousands who cannot afford to cushion their families against this impact. While I agree entirely with what Deputy Maurice Dockrell said in the House yesterday evening, that people are like squirrels collecting the nuts to have for the rainy day, I, looking at it in a different light, think of the nuts taken away by the Revenue Commissioners in the form of death duties when the rainy day came.

I listened with interest to Deputy Carter pleading for the family industry and talking about the number of them, which, according to him, are likely to become bankrupt as a result of this Bill. I can recall many family industries and many family businesses which had to be sold after the death of the proprietor in order to pay the iniquitous death duties.

Deputy Carter also claimed that the legislation was in favour of the farmers as against business. If I was pleading the case solely for the farmer I could cite as an example the case of a relation of my own—a man who was not known to be great at business, a man who had earned possibly the worst name a man can earn in life, that of being his own worst enemy. If he had a few pounds at all and met somebody who had less, he gave him what he had. However, he had very valuable property. To use a common expression, he was sitting on a gold mine. Yet were it not for the fact that that man was blessed with good neighbours, he would have died in want. He was a bachelor. Therefore, when he died there was no family to be affected. I was amused one Sunday morning when I opened my Sunday paper and saw the heading: "Kildare farmer leaves £90,000". That man had not 90,000 farthings, and yet the Revenue Commissioners took a whale of a slice of that £90,000. Had he had a family, the farm or a large slice of it would have had to be sold to pay the death duties.

I know numerous young, enterprising, hardworking farmers in my own area at present who are up to their necks in debt trying to meet death duties which fell to their lot when their fathers died. Looking back I feel that, while they are making use of the provision which was put into one of the Finance Bills whereby death duties could be paid over eight years, they are living and working at the moment on borrowed money, money borrowed to pay the Revenue Commissioners the estate duty due on their father's holdings and money borrowed to keep the holdings going. On 1st April next death duties will be abolished and these people should be given the benefit of further relief the Minister gave in regard to death duties in his first budget.

What about those who will be caught in the net on the last day of this month? What about those where the estates have not been wound up over the last six months? Can something not be done for them by way of phasing out these death duties by one-twentieth per month over the last six months? What about those facing huge amounts in death duties in the last few months or until the estates are finally wound up? Is there any danger of their being caught for wealth tax as well? The Minister must make sure they will not be caught for both. Those who are lucky enough to make adequate provision, who had the money to cushion themselves against death duties, who will now be caught, will have a much smaller amount to pay than they would have had to pay had the Government not taken this action and abolished death duties. I cannot speak too strongly against the system that is going and I am very pleased, indeed, to be a Member of the House and on this side of the House supporting a Government that have the courage to grasp the nettle and abolish these penal taxes forever. I have seen great hardship. I have seen many families split up, families who had remained at home on the farms or in businesses dispersed to the four quarters of the globe following on the death of the head of the household because the Revenue Commissioners had to take their slice of the cake.

I welcome this Bill and I hope the Minister will keep in mind the suggestions I have made with regard to those already caught and those who will be caught between now and the last day of this month.

I was amused at the trend of the last speaker's contribution. Finding he really had nothing good to say about the Bill, he chose to talk about a tax which was not very popular, a tax which this Bill is supposed to replace, according to him. He does not seem to appreciate that there is a Capital Acquisitions Bill coming up which will also take a slice out of the estate when it passes on death. The note on which Deputy Carter concluded must be the note most prominent in the minds of all at the moment. Where are we going as a State? Are we going to be a free enterprise economy or are we going to have out-and-out socialism? We are taking a path somewhere in between, which is good for neither one nor the other and could ultimately lead to such an irate community that we could find ourselves with revolution on our hands. Perhaps that would suit the thinking of some people.

I am not concerned with whether or not people can evade tax. With every year that passes not many loopholes are left through which an evader could hope to escape. The law is tightened up every year. It is to the overall principle of the Bill I object and I quite seriously suggest that the Minister should withdraw the Bill. He has sufficient contacts with the public to know this is the most unpopular piece of legislation ever introduced.

The Deputy must be joking.

If he does not know that he should have no difficulty in finding out. It has been watered down a bit, but this is the thin end of the wedge and it does not impress anybody. Wealth tax is here to stay and the screw will be twisted as occasion demands and depending on the disposition of those applying it. This Bill makes one wonder whether it is worthwhile owning property. It is a disincentive to people to accumulate wealth. It is a disincentive to people to take an interest in creating wealth. Up to a few years ago we were a very underdeveloped country and when we first suggested joining the European Economic Community the Opposition levelled the old charge at us: they said we were not a sufficiently developed State to go into Europe and we were going in cap in hand to see what we could get out of it.

We have made very rapid strides in the last 16 or 20 years. We have reached the stage at which people are beginning to savour some of the better qualities of life, qualities to which they had not been accustomed under foreign rule. We are gradually improving living standards. We have still a long way to go. We are a small population. We had to contend with a big emigration problem and a low marriage rate, to say nothing of marriage at an older age. The average age has been reduced in recent years. Employment was improving and emigration was down to a trickle.

Those on the western seaboard are in a better position to understand this. These great evils which bedevilled every effort at development were in themselves symptoms of a weak economy. For some reason some people thought we had reached the stage of full development, despite the fact that we still had serious problems.

We must now compete with the most highly developed countries in the world. Under our Constitution the rights of the individual are guaranteed. Income Tax at any time and in any form trespasses on these libterties. This legislation will encroach on anybody who has any ambition to succeed in private ownership. It must be the most serious disincentive to development we have ever had. We used point to the means test for the old age pension which operated against the man who was thrifty and prudent during his working life. We told a story of two men who lived side by side. One was an ne'er-do-well and the other practised economy, worked hard and built up certain assets. When they came to pension age—and this still happens— the investigation officer interviewed them. The thrifty man did not get a pension but the spendthrift got the pension without any bother because he had not accumulated any money during his working life.

If we were in Government, and I was a member of that Government, I would go all out to ensure that this was a better place to live than any other country in the world. If we could show that we had cheaper petrol, bread, postal services, commodities and lower taxes we would gain much more than we will through these impositions. What we want here is a happy increasing population which will generate its own wealth and create employment. When we saw the tide turning and the graph tilting upwards in relation to population, we could not wait to strip people of their last penny, before we even knew for certain that our economy was improving.

The Coalition held out the carrot to abolish death duties to farmers' associations before the last general election. In my view that was the meanest and most despicable action in our political history. The last speaker said that by abolishing dealth duties the Minister had created a monument to himself. The Coalition made a number of promises during the election campaign. As a result, people will no longer believe anything politicians promise at election time. They promised many things to get the extra votes and the abolition of death duties was one of those mentioned. No attempt was made to say what would replace them. People were not told that two more unpopular measures—acquisition tax and wealth tax—would be introduced to replace them. I did not have a great deal of sympathy for people who had to pay death duties because there were so many legitimate means whereby it could be avoided, particularly for a married man with a family.

If a person died in debt the payment of death duties could create great hardship for his family. He should have made provision for his family. When his estate was being assessed the valuation of the entire estate was taken into account. We eased this for widows by taking a lot of the sting out of it. The abolition of death duties has given this Government an excuse to introduce two measures which will turn the screw on those who have accumulated assets.

We have reached the stage where certain people seem to think that we should move over to State ownership. It is scarcely worth a candle to have assets or to try to be enterprising. It could be said that this is a Committee Stage Bill which should never have seen the light of day. It should be put in cold storage until we had a communist Government which could bring it in at a later stage.

From my reading of this Bill I understand that if a small firm has capital in a bank it escapes this tax. If it invests in assets it does not escape; it is subject to tax. In other words, the man who now invests wealth in establishing a small industry and gives employment to 20 or 40 people, and gets blood pressure or dies of a coronary at 45 years is a fool. That is the situation the State is creating. That man would be much better off being carefree and standing at the end of the dole queue. This is the type of society we are seeking to encourage and establish. People on the other side of the House may point to the thresholds and exemptions but the fact remains that wealth tax is being introduced, that it is something that will remain and that it will be increased any time it suits to increase it. In the same way the farmers know that the £100 valuation limit will not remain very long if it is found necessary to change it. We all know that taxes are introduced in the simplest form but that they are imposed in layers as the need arises. The present tendency is to promise what is attractive in every direction irrespective of what will be the ultimate effect.

The number of people who are generating wealth is very small in relation to any other developed country in western Europe and the amount per head that we are taking from that tiny section must be the highest percentage of any other country, big or small. We do not know yet at what stage we will reach diminishing returns but we have reached the stage where our own resources are not sufficient to support what we are trying to do with the result that we are depending on foreign borrowing and on running a balance of trade deficit.

So long as there is a trickle to be found from any source this Government will find it. What is proposed here is the last straw. This year's budget should not have been introduced until after the House had had the opportunity of reading this Bill, the Capital Gains Tax Bill, the Capital Acquisitions Tax Bill and the Bill to provide for the taxation of farmers because each of these Bills is relevant directly to the annual budgetary arrangements for the working of our finances in respect of the year. I do not think that the tax imposed in any ten years up to now could equal the amounts being legislated for in this Bill. At this stage we must ask ourselves why we should not stop and move towards complete State ownership and nationalisation of industry in a complete communist state. We are only a very small step from the Tarpeian Rock. No matter how the Minister seeks to defend an action of this kind we know that it does not fit into a free private enterprise economy.

I have always held the philosophy regarding the distribution of national wealth that we should make provision for the unfortunate people who could not provide for themselves, in accordance with resources available to us, always keeping in mind that those resources should be improved year by year. In that way we would be moving in a logical manner. But in an economy which is suffering from a 20 per cent inflation rate it is ludicrous to make better provision for people on fixed incomes knowing that the amount provided for them will devalue each day so that further provision is required half-way through the year or at the end of the year, while at the same time any improvement in the overall economic position is dependent on borrowings. If this philosophy were to be regarded as good housekeeping, the economists of the past could be regarded as frauds. If one were to apply the same method to running an ordinary household we would not be in existence for very long. What peculiar miracle will occur at the end of the day which will halt this trend towards greater indebtedness, more foreign borrowing and increasing balance-of-payments deficits as well as a continued decline in the value of money with taxation being heaped on to ensure that the position cannot be improved? The only outcome I can visualise is the eventual destruction of this society by people who are openly advocating revolution. Such people may be small in number but there are many who are on the periphery of that school of thought and who would not be averse to supporting the all-out ownership of property. Ultimately they would find an easy takeover because that seems to be the direction in which we are moving rapidly.

In a place such as Donegal there are many people who have retired from positions abroad and who have returned to spend their retirement years here. It is not unusual for those who work in the US to have three pensions. In the past people found it possible to live more easily here on their modest incomes than they could live abroad. However that is no longer the situation. This country is no longer a place to which people may come in retirement and enjoy a reasonable standard of living. Instead, ours is now a country to avoid.

Debate adjourned.
The Dáil adjourned at 5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 11th March, 1975.
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