Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 20 May 1975

Vol. 281 No. 1

Private Members' Business. - Fishing Industry: Motion.

Mr. Gallagher

I move:

That Dáil Éireann deplores the failure of the Government to formulate any positive policy in relation to the continued expansion of the fishing industry.

I am greatful for the opportunity to bring this very important motion before the House. Fishing should be almost as important to us as agriculture. It should be our second largest industry. Unfortunately, we have to say that our investment in fishing must be the lowest in Europe although our potential is probably one of the highest. In this debate while we can look at the progress made by countries like Norway and Denmark it would be unfair to make direct comparisons for a number of reasons. First, most of the reasons would be historical. Going back on history we know that when the Act of Union was introduced Britain so geared the finances of this country that there was very little investment here and she tried to plan and regulate emigration to suit her own interests. While we here have enjoyed so-called freedom for a period of years, we must admit that we have not had economic freedom and that this hampered investment in many fields. Fishing like many other industries suffered as a result of this. There was no real development until the Sixties when An Bord Iascaigh Mhara reorganised and restructured and from there on we had planned development, so to speak. This resulted in a larger amount of money being made available to buy suitable boats for the fishermen. We also had improvements in harbour facilities and grants made available for the handling of fish and so on.

In the early stages we concentrated on 50-foot boats with a direct drive engine where no reduction gear was used and where the towing power of the boat for certain types of fishing such as trawling was entirely limited. Looking back on the past ten years, while we did provide an excellent hull and while the design of the boats was satisfactory in every way, we have come a very long way in relation to boat-building and the type of boat which is now being handled by our fishermen. Also, our fishermen have improved a great deal in the knowledge of the various techniques necessary to man this type of boat. An Bord Iascaigh Mhara must again get a certain amount of credit for providing courses for fishermen and for assisting them in their training to operate the type of boats which they now have.

The investment in the other sectors of the industry was also increased. The IDA and in some instances Gaeltarra Éireann and the board gave grants for co-operatives to provide cold storage and other facilities at the landing points. In our harbour development plan a number of ports were selected for special attention. In that nine or ten years the fishing industry has expanded considerably and the incomes have increased. Up to recently we have seen fishermen enjoying a certain degree of prosperity as a result of this planned development. At the same time we would have to admit that because of our geographic position not enough has been done and that we should have had a far higher investment in this important industry down through the years. I hope to come to that point later.

The unfortunate thing at the moment is that the prosperity which was being enjoyed has shown a marked decline. This is due to decreases in catches, to out-dated marketing structures and to increased operational costs. These matters have been mentioned in the Dáil in recent weeks and have also been given a good airing through the Irish fishermen's organisation. It is true to say that at present the fishermen are really going through one of the worst and leanest periods they have experienced over the past few years. Fishermen have their boats tied up even though the weather is most suitable. Because of bad prices on the market, because of small catches, they find it almost impossible to decide to go to sea. They are overhauling their vessels, painting their boats and examining their engines at a time when they should be out fishing.

The most urgent need is to take a look at our marketing structures. I agree that the present situation cannot improve very much until better facilities are provided at most harbours. By better facilities I mean cold storage facilities, and so on. When the fisherman is seen to get 5p, 6p and 7p for popular varieties of fish such as cod, whiting and haddock, and when the retailer is seen to get prices in excess of 50p for the same varieties, the matter explains itself. This is one area in which it is very necessary to do something positive.

The position in most ports is that the fishermen land their fish and send it off by CIE, or other means of transport, to the Dublin market. They have no control whatsoever over what happens to the fish from there on. The Dublin market is controlled by wholesale merchants who are also retail merchants and who call themselves auctioneers, although I understand that they are not auctioneers in the true sense of the word, except that they operate on a traditional basis and they conduct the sales in the Dublin market on behalf of the fishermen. A great deal of fish which arrives in the Dublin market never goes into auction. It is taken away by these people to their own shops and retailed there. The fishermen are charged 7½ per cent for the auctioning of fish which never goes up for auction.

In the early sixties a survey was carried out by an American group on the fishing industry as a whole here, and one of the items they mentioned specifically in their report was the marketing system with special reference to the Dublin market. They suggested that a State auctioneer should be employed in the market to auction the fish on behalf of the fishermen. This is necessary and it would help considerably if some arrangement of this kind could be made. I was in the Dublin market on a number of occasions and, frankly, I just did not know what was happening there. Apart from the manner in which the fish is presented for auction, or not presented for auction as the case might be, the whole set up there is revolting. If people saw the way fish was handled in the Dublin market it would put them off eating fish forever. It is thrown around and badly handled in general. It is time we did something not alone to protect the interests of the fishermen but also to ensure that the handling and presentation of fish are improved immensely.

This is the time of year for white fishing and most of the boats around the coasts engage in this type of fishing during these months. The nature of the fishing itself means that they have to tow a trawl for many hours and they use a great deal of oil. This explains the reason for the anxiety on the part of fishermen in relation to prices, and so on. Their oil costs have increased by about 300 per cent. It really does not pay to tow a trawl for a number of hours and then find that markets are depressed and that prices for white fish are bad.

I should say in fairness that because of the large number of boats engaged in this type of fishing, more fish is going into the market and because of this prices are depressed.

Another serious situation arises because our larger boats are concentrating on the grounds fished by the smaller boats in the past. It is true to say that they have not gone out in the deeper water, that they have been more or less scraping the rocks that were being used by the smaller boats. This means that these small bays are now being cleaned out very quickly. They have greater power and they have a bigger span of net and the smaller inshore boat, the boat of 50 feet or less, finds itself in an impossible position because of this. I am sure that the fishermen themselves realise what is happening and that they will have to do something positive about it.

Overall, we can say that the position at the moment is not at all satisfactory. When we see the recent fumbling and indecision of the Government in relation to fishing and in relation to the manner in which moneys were not made available, and then at a later date were made available, one can say quite honestly that they do not seem to be taking their responsibility too seriously in relation to this very important industry. This is why the fishermen found it necessary, for the first time ever, to take to the streets. I believe that when they came to the Government and to the Parliamentary Secretary with their complaints, their demands were very reasonable.

One of the things they asked for was an overall plan for the industry. I do not see anything wrong with this. I would agree wholeheartedly that it is a great necessity to have an overall plan for the industry. To date, our concentration has been on an inshore fleet. From the boat-building side, we can say that we have reached phase 1 in the development of our industry. At this stage we have possibly almost reached our maximum in relation to boat-building for an inshore fleet. We now have to take Phase 2, the building of a middle-water fleet, or a fleet that would stay out for long periods and fish farther away from home. This is something that must receive very serious consideration from the Government. Later on I hope to be able to develop a number of reasons as to why I see this type of development as necessary.

Running parallel with this building of larger boats, we must plan harbour development. If we build larger boats I can see very few of our traditional harbours, as they are at the moment, being in a position to hold these boats or to provide the facilities that will be necessary for the larger type boat. For instance, Killybegs harbour, one can say, is overcrowded already, and the same thing can be said of Howth, and of Castletownbere. Therefore, in talking about expanding the fleet, the possibility of opening up new harbours will also have to be decided. Places on the west coast, such as Innislyre near Westport, Ballyglass—which is about to develop—should be developed in order to make sure the boats are catered for in every possible way.

It will also be necessary to provide extra cold-storage arrangements to ensure that the fishermen will be able to have every facility when arriving in port. In this respect, the question of maintenance of engines and gear will have to be looked at very seriously to ensure that there will be no loss of time. Too often one hears of fishermen being held up for a long period because grants for certain types of engine or other gear are not available. It is necessary to ensure that all these facilities are available for fishermen at ports.

Education is another very important aspect of the industry which will have to be examined. As I stated previously, it is true to say that the fishermen and skippers have availed themselves of the courses provided by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara down the years. It is necessary to extend these courses to help skippers and crew members to keep abreast of modern developments. Crew members would also have to be trained. In the larger craft, it would be necessary to have specialist treatment or special knowledge in relation to particular jobs in order to have efficient crews and the efficient handling of boats and gear, and therefore it would be necessary to have the crewmen educated in the same way as skippers.

In an operation of this kind there can be no time for trial and error. The three are combined, greater catching power, more harbour facilities and increased handling and other facilities necessary at shore level. They are all tied up.

We will have to look at the school we have at Greencastle to ensure that it has the staff and equipment to help with the courses I mentioned. I should like to quote from the recent Press release in relation to one of the courses at this school. It says:

As in previous years courses are now being organised by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries to train groups of experienced fishermen so as to enable them to qualify as skippers of fishing vessels. The courses, lasting about ten to 12 weeks, are scheduled to be held in the National Fishery School. Greencastle, commencing on Monday, 3rd March, 1975. The subjects will include seamanship, navigation and the running and maintenance of marine engines.

That is an admirable development but it is necessary to broaden the scope of the courses for fishermen and skippers. In this development it would be necessary to have new training centres, possibly one on the west coast, one in the south and one in Dublin.

Educational programmes will have to be designed to cover all aspects of the industry. At present the courses provided deal with the catching of fish only but, to my knowledge, we do not provide much help for people in the processing and handling of fish. Our educational system at all levels would need to be looked at. We are in no way conscious of marine life and our schools, primary, post-primary and third level, should concentrate more on all aspects of marine life.

To give an example of how backward we are in this respect I should like to refer to an experience of mine. A group of people in my area decided to rear oysters. They found, after a short period, that the oyster beds were covered with moss and the oysters were dying. At that time we had the services of a Frenchman, who was managing the fishing co-operative for us, and they asked him for advice on this matter. He said the remedy was simple. It involved throwing a few bags of winkles on the beds and the winkles would eat the moss. This, of course, solved the problem. I should have known this as a teacher in a primary school on the west coast but it was the first time I had heard about it. It is an indication of how far behind we are in minor matters of this kind.

It is necessary, too, to provide more money for marine biology. A number of dedicated people in Galway University have been involved in this down the years but they have been severely handicapped by lack of finance, a suitable boat and other ancillary equipment which would help them in their work. In the new curriculum in the national schools we should have greater concentration on fishing. Teachers and pupils should be encouraged to carry out projects which would help focus more attention on fishing in general.

I have spoken a good deal about the extension of our fleet and the provision of more catching power but we must ensure that the inshore fisherman, the traditional fisherman with the small boat, has his rights protected. He must get the protection of the State in many ways. It would be necessary to bring in some regulations which would mean that the larger boats would have to fish outside a certain limit.

There is confidence in the industry because fishermen are prepared to provide or invest a great deal of money in the purchase of boats and gear. Apart from bigger boats, the inshore people are prepared to invest considerable sums also. The whole area of fishing is sorely in need of special attention. A crash programme is necessary in order to get it off the ground.

We need to increase our catching power, press to expand our fishery limits, try to increase the number of boats on fishery protection, improve the marketing structures, provide suitable handling and cold storage facilities, and help with the maintenance of engines and other gear by having spare parts available. We must educate our young fishermen, and the public in general, as to the developments of and the advantages to be gained from this industry. This is necessary because an investment in this industry can improve our economy.

With proper planning in five or six years our gross national product from fishing could reach over £100 million. This is a target of which we should not be afraid. Another very important aspect which should be borne in mind at present is that the Treaty of Accession to the EEC comes up for renewal in 1983. Unless we can prove that we are able to exploit our waters in full we will find ourselves in an impossible position. Whatever Government is in office at the time will certainly have no arguments to put forward unless we can prove that we are able to exploit our fishing waters to the full. This is possibly the most important reason for having a plan prepared at this time to increase our catching power and leave us in the position where we could prove to the other member states that we can exploit our waters to the full. In that way we would not have to seek charity from these people when we have to debate this matter with them.

Mr. White

In the motion put down by the Opposition they accuse us of having no positive policy in relation to the continued expansion of the fishing industry. Like Deputy Gallagher, I come from one of the western counties and am very involved in the fishing industry on my doorstep. I also represent our largest fishing port, Killybegs. It has given me much pleasure over the last two years to go into that port each month. I see Deputy Gallagher laughing. Perhaps he was there recently and saw for himself the tremendous improvement the people of Killybegs have achieved under the National Coalition Government. Not alone is there a new look about Killybegs but the fishermen there also realise the new opportunities offered them by the Government. There is an air of confidence about the whole town at present. It is the fastest growing town in Donegal.

I should like to compare the progress made by the National Coalition Government over the last two years with that of the last four years of the Fianna Fáil administration. Let us take, for example, the town of Killybegs. In 1973 this Government provided grants of £122,000. In 1974 they allocated grants of £247,000. For the first three months of 1975 they allocated grants of £126,000, making a total for the last two-and-a-half years of £495,000 for one town alone in County Donegal. Surely that is confidence in the fishing industry in this country.

Let us take another town further up the west coast of Donegal— Burtonport—which ranks as approximately the seventh largest of the fishing towns in Ireland. In 1972-1973 Burtonport got £68,000; in 1973-1974 it got £48,000 and in 1974-1975 it received £40,000. That was a massive £156,000 granted to that village in the last two-and-a-half years. I quoted these facts so that they will be on the record to show the progress made and how earnestly we are taking the fishing industry at present. Admittedly, we are not happy with the fishing industry. The Parliamentary Secretary is not happy with the fishing industry; he wants to do more and more and that is the reason that he is spending such an amount of money.

In a fast-changing industry such as fishing at present we cannot do enough. Those facts alone prove that we have done more in the last two-and-a-half years than the previous Government did in their 16 years of office.

As well as representing Killybegs and Burtonport, a sizeable part of my constituency is in the Gaeltacht. The Gaeltacht grants for slipways and piers in 1974 amounted to £8,878. I, like Deputy Gallagher, know how small is the Gaeltacht area of the west coast. He knows that £8,878 is a massive injection to our in-shore fishermen. Not alone have we spent money on small piers but also on some large projects. Let me quote examples from my own constituency of Donegal. In relation to Magheraroarty, a £62,000 grant has just been sanctioned by the Department of the Gaeltacht. Work on the pier there is due to start on the 1st June next. Let me remind the Opposition that we believe in backing up our confidence with our money.

I want to come to the national view of the fishing industry. Again, I shall quote a few figures. I want to remind the Opposition that two-and-a-half years ago their fishing budget was £4,150,000. In the current financial year we are spending £7,940,000 on fishing which shows an increase of £3,790,000.

We appreciate new ideas and new thinking. Surely when we quote figures like this facts speak louder than words. I listened to Deputy Gallagher very carefully. I know he is a man of high integrity. I was very surprised that he did not, perhaps, put forward some of the new ideas he has on the fishing industry. He spoke about matters that we have heard spoken about for the last two years in this House. Let me also remind the Fianna Fáil Party that in the last four years in which they were in office, in one year alone, they handed back 66 per cent of the grants that were given to the Fisheries Branch because they could not find the places, the time and the workmen on which to spend these moneys. The second year they sent back 47 per cent, the third year 48 per cent and the fourth 40 per cent. In other words, the difference between the Opposition and the Government is that we believe in spending the money we allocate to the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries. The Opposition, when in power, believed in promising the people that the money was going to be spent. Then they turned and gave a large percentage of it back to the Exchequer.

We are very concerned with the fishing industry. I have heard the Parliamentary Secretary say time and time again that we believe in using our raw materials. Of course, fish is one of our major raw materials. Surely the greatest proof is the number of fishermen now applying for new boats. Let me again remind the people living in the Gaeltacht that the Department of the Gaeltacht can allow grants on a loan of up to £4,000. They can apply to An Bord Iascaigh Mhara. All they are expected to pay is a 5 per cent deposit on their new boats. If the boat in respect of which they are applying is a reasonably small one costing £100,000 the Department of the Gaeltacht will give 80 per cent of that £100,000. Of course, this applies only if they live in the Gaeltacht areas.

Mr. Gallagher

On a point of order, that is not something new.

Mr. White

I did not say it was something new.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order. Interruptions are not welcome in a debate like this to which a time limit applies. Deputy White without interruption.

Mr. White

To make it quite clear for Deputy Gallagher, I did not say that it was anything new. I said the people of the Gaeltacht are entitled to this grant.

Mr. Gallagher

I referred to the fact that they have curtailed the 80 per cent grant. They have put a maximum figure of £4,000 on the grant now.

Mr. White

I have said that there is a maximum grant.

Mr. Gallagher

But there was not a maximum grant.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy White. Interruptions must cease.

Mr. White

The grant is an added incentive to people living in Gaeltacht areas. Hardly a week passes without three or four fishermen coming to me looking for new boats because of the confidence they have in the Government.

My time is limited. The point I want to get across is that, instead of bluffing the people for 16 years, we have been in office for the last two-and-a-half years and we have shown the fishermen we are determined to put the fishing industry on a new foundation. It will take time to change; it will take time to develop our fishing industry the way we want it developed. We admit it is a fast changing industry. We admit that there are new techniques coming up every day. We admit that the people now are looking for newer and larger boats. We admit that we have to look at the fish farming and the oyster farming operations. All this takes time but this National Coalition Government over the last two-and-a-half years can be proud of their record. We can leave the industry in the capable hands of the Parliamentary Secretary. As the fishermen themselves are aware, if they have problems, he is willing to speak to them and help them to solve any problems they may have.

Mr. J. O'Leary

I second this motion. I fully support it. If the Government were serious about expanding the fishing industry and developing it to its maximum they should set out to do a number of things in a stated policy. They should set out, first of all, to increase the catching power of fishermen. They should improve considerably the harbours, piers and landing facilities around the coast as well as providing more and better cold storage facilities and more processing stations ashore.

I see no reason in this day and age why these things cannot be done, particularly now with all the money available to this country from the EEC funds. The Government should set out on a proper plan of campaign to provide better marketing facilities for our fishermen at home as well as abroad. The Government, through either the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries or An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, should be continuously improving fishing techniques and should be in continuous consultation with fishermen with a view to putting these improved techniques into operation. The Government should also set about seriously improving the boat-building industry by providing more and better grant facilities particularly for the small boat builders, as well as expanding substantially the existing boatyards instead of just maintaining them as they were a few years ago.

The Government should promote rather than discourage co-operation among fishermen. The Government should give substantial grants to fishermen's co-operatives and, indeed, to the National Organisation of Fishermen. We have to remember and bear in mind the increased unemployment which would result at this crucial stage in our evolution should proper action not be taken. The Government should take cognisance of the fact that the fishing industry is a very important industry as far as the economy of the country is concerned and that its potential has not yet been seen, nor nearly seen. The Government should ensure that the importation of fish, both tinned and otherwise, should be cut out entirely and arrangements should be made to make us a nation which can at least supply all our own needs as far as fish is concerned.

I shall set out now how these objectives could be achieved. The Government should encourage bigger, better and heavier landing but, concomitant with these, we must have the requisite facilities. We must have the harbours and piers properly developed to take larger boats. As well as that, we should encourage the fishermen by way of increased grant facilities to purchase and man the larger trawlers which fish further out to sea and make sure that the catches are landed on our shores. Before this can be done the landing facilities must, of course, be there. There should also be proper landing facilities for the smaller boats around the coast, particularly along the western and south western seaboard. We must remember that there are numerous small piers and harbours around the west and south-west ideally suited for landings from smaller boats. In the old days when there was a big population along the western seaboard and that population depended mainly on fishing as a livelihood these were maintained in good condition. It behoves the Government now to make sure that these small piers and harbours are restored at least to the condition in which they were in the past. If this were done it would certainly be a big boost to local employment and to local incomes; it would also encourage more young people to take up fishing as a livelihood. Many of these young people seeing their fathers and brothers fishing would themselves be encouraged to take up fishing as a career. Many of them would ultimately, I am certain, be manning larger trawlers of all descriptions fishing way out into deep sea.

There was great excitement when we heard about the oil and gas off Kinsale and off other parts of Ireland. The potential, as far as minerals is concerned, is nothing in comparison with the vast potential as far as our fishing industry is concerned. Now is the time for the Government to inject the necessary capital into the fishing industry to make sure it is expanded rapidly. It is clear that the fishermen have confidence in the future of the fishing industry now, provided they get the necessary backing from the Government. But, it seems to me that the fishermen have not got confidence in this Government to back them to the extent necessary to enable them to increase the number of boats fishing, to increase the landings and to increase the number of men employed on the fishing boats. I believe the vast majority of fishermen are convinced that this urban-biased and mainly urban-based Government have no overall Government plan for the fishing industry.

Many of our harbours and piers require development. Development schemes were going ahead fairly well during the period of the previous Administration but, in Kerry and west Cork there appears to be almost a full stop as far as the development of piers and harbours is concerned. I reminded the Parliamentary Secretary in this House before of a number of piers and harbours along the western coast and particularly along Kerry and west Cork which required urgent repair and improvement works in the interest of the safety of the fishermen, if nothing else. I referred him to particular piers and harbours where even the very minimum of public lighting was not provided. I referred him to piers and harbours which were almost destroyed by storms in the past two years and which his Department have made very little effort, if any, to have restored. I know of one small pier off which, last September, I saw 18 boats fishing. The landing facilities were atrocious and most dangerous. I saw a lorry being reversed down the pier with half of the outside right wheels hanging over the pier because it was so narrow.

Mr. White

Did this happen in the last two-and-a-half years?

Mr. J. O'Leary

It happened last September.

Mr. White

This happened to the pier in the last two-and-a-half years?

Mr. J. O'Leary

Yes. I drew the attention of the Parliamentary Secretary to this matter on a few occasions and very little has happened. I believe the Government should at this stage in the history of the country and having regard to the terrible state of the economy at the moment, be making an all-out effort to provide proper cold storage facilities for fish, particularly at the major fishing harbours. There are very limited storage facilities available in some areas. Now is the time, in the interest of providing employment for people in industry based on fishing, to set up more processing stations along our coasts. If the Government were serious about reducing the unemployment figure of 103,000 one way in which it could be reduced somewhat would be by providing the industries where the raw materials are available and where the labour force is available. I believe everyone will agree with me. We have the raw materials, we have the labour and we have the skill as far as the fishing industry is concerned. These are vital factors in reducing the unemployment rate along our coastline. All we want at the moment is the will and the money from the Government to provide better landing facilities and more processing stations.

We should also bear in mind that the ratio of employment as between the number of person engaged in fishing and the number of persons engaged in processing offshore is 6:1. This is pretty high. I would appeal to the Parliamentray Secretary to take some positive steps towards the provision of better cold storage facilities and more processing facilities for our fish. It is certainly not something to boast about in this day and age that about 60 per cent of our fish is exported in a raw state. I would equate this with exporting cattle on the hoof. The nation and the economy is not availing of the fishing industry to say the very least.

Fishing, if it were properly harnessed, could be the second largest industry in the country. At the moment it comes after agriculture and manufacturing and tourism. If properly handled it could be our second largest industry.

The fishing industry got the biggest blow it ever got when the Government slashed the Estimate for Fisheries in the Book of Estimates for this year. It was a terrible blow and it showed a complete lack of confidence in the industry on the part of the Government. The Minister for Finance tried to make some sort of recovery on behalf of the Government afterwards by announcing an additional £1.4 million in the budget to maintain the same level of employment in boatyards but this was not nearly enough. It meant that the Government had not got the same amount of money to spend this year on the repair and improvement of piers and harbours, and provision of processing industries as they had in previous years.

Each maritime county should set up a county committee of fisheries. The first such committee was set up in County Kerry and it is working fairly successfully although I would like to see it expanded further. It is very important that such committees be fully representative of all the fishing interests, from the smallest lobster fishermen up.

There is no substitute on any committee for men with a practical knowledge of the industry. The Parliamentary Secretary should direct each county along our coastline to set up a fishery committee. He should set out the structure for such a committee. It reflects the frustration of the fishermen in this country and the chaos in which the fishing industry finds itself that for the first time ever the fishermen found it necessary to march to Leinster House to protest against the manner in which they were being treated by the Government.

We must bear in mind the sacrifices and the loss of finance that fishermen have suffered. It is for each country within the EEC to initiate various schemes. I am surprised that the Government have not initiated a scheme for the provision of a special grant for our fishing industry, especially having regard to the fact that they cannot out of their resources provide the necessary capital for the industry to expand at a time when it is prepared to expand and particularly when we know the extent of the catches off our shores. The money is not available in this country as a direct result of the Government's mismangement of our financial affairs. They should be more concerned about the Law of the Sea Conference and ensure that the rights of our fishermen are protected. Not only our fishermen but our people as a whole are concerned with the issue of fishery protection.

I urge the fishermen to organise themselves now as never before to ensure that the Government do not rest on their oars at this stage and that they will do everything possible to get more finance for this industry. We must remember that in Europe there is a demand for fish. It is a pity that the industry here has been neglected. The benefits would be multiple—increased exports from entirely native resources, added value in processing the resources for exports, substituting for our meat diet and the freeing of further quantities of beef for export. It would also mean increased incomes and employment especially in the depressed western and south-western areas.

The amount being expended in fisheries by the Government this year may look all right in percentage terms but the question remains as to whether it is enough. I do not believe it is. The last budget produced an estimate for 1975 of £4 million odd while the previous nine-month expenditure was £3.4 million. Therefore, the figure for this year shows a drop as between 1974 and 1975 with no allowance for inflation. It was only following protests by the Fianna Fáil Party and by the fishermen that the Minister for Finance at the eleventh hour came in and in the budget allowed an extra £1.4 million in order to maintain the same level of employment in the boatyards this year as last year.

We must also bear in mind the fact that the cost of boats has doubled in the last 18 months and that the cost of carrying out any harbour works or any improvements to piers or slipways has also increased during that time. If the Government were serious in maintaining the same level of progress as was being maintained under Fianna Fáil, at least four to five times as much money should be made available now for fisheries as was being made available a few years ago. This is something which we will not allow the Parliamentary Secretary nor the Government to get away with.

The fishermen ask why the Government do not increase the amount of money available. Any rapid increase in the amount of money would have the effect of enlarging the national annual catch at a time when the industry is badly under-capitalised.

I am firmly convinced that this Government have failed completely to realise that in a very short time the fishing industry could be the second largest industry and that it could ultimately become our greatest industry. The Government have failed to realise the vast potential for employment arising from the injection of the necessary capital into this industry. They have failed to realise what part this industry could play in reducing the unprecedented numbers unemployed. They have not got the will, the courage, the unity of purpose nor the capacity to tackle in a realistic manner the expansion of this industry and to take advantage of all that it involves for the nation. Because of their mishandling of our economy they should go to the EEC and initiate some scheme as any member nation is entitled to do. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to get the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries to go to the EEC right away and initiate some scheme or some fund from which the Government could draw the money necessary to give the boost to the fishing industry which is badly required at the moment in the interest of the fishing industry, in the interest of the unemployed, in the interest of creating more employment, and in the interest of the economy generally.

Mr. Taylor

One would imagine, listening to the Opposition, that the Government have done nothing to boost this very important industry. I have listened to the litany of gloom and doom coming from the last speaker and one would think that he is not aware of the Government's efforts to improve the fishing industry when, in fact, the Government have practically doubled the investment made by the previous Government during their term of office.

The previous Government did very little to ensure there was adequate protection for our fishermen. I am fully aware of this particularly in regard to the west coast. The Government have ensured that an additional fishery protection vessel will be purchased. They are making arrangements for proper air force cover for our fishermen so that they can reap the harvest from our seas to which they are entitled. The Attorney General did his utmost when he attended the Law of the Sea Conference in Geneva. That adjourned conference will be resumed and we can anticipate that he will reflect the Government's interest in the fishing industry. While we cannot make our own unilateral arrangements in regard to the extension of the fishing limits to 50 miles, we can rely on the Government and on the Attorney General to ensure that our fishermen get as much scope to fish as can be given to them. We do not want to act alone. We recognise that it is in the best interests of the country that we should have arrangements with other States.

Another aspect of the Government's policy which has been overlooked by the Opposition is that loans are now available for the purchase of boats at an interest rate of 4 per cent. In a time of world-wide inflation, which we must all attempt to overcome, the Government have been generous in holding that interest rate at 4 per cent. We do not expect appreciation from the Opposition for this, but these are facts which must be recorded.

Mr. Crowley

A figure of 4 per cent is not a fact.

Mr. Taylor

It is a fact.

Mr. Crowley

Does the Deputy know anybody who is getting it?

Mr. Taylor

They can avail of these terms. We must remember what has been done in the poorer areas and the opportunities which have been given to our fishermen by providing proper harbours where there are big intakes of fish. I refer specifically to the allocation made by the Minister for the Gaeltacht for harbour improvements in the Gaeltacht areas. That investment in improving harbours in the Galway area is appreciated fully by the fisherment who utilise those harbours.

Young fishermen who are anxious to avail of loans can get information from An Bord Iascaigh Mhara. We are now organising county development teams who will promote the fishing industry and encourage young people to participate. About a month ago in Clare such a body was formed and at the seminar, which was attended by the IAOS and representatives of the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries, the whole field was fully covered. It was agreed by the fishermen that they would prefer to see some development of the smaller harbours in order to encourage fishermen to progress from small boats to larger vessels as their finances improve.

I would like to see more investment and I hope the Minister for Finance will be able to give the necessary injection to enable smaller piers to be erected and existing piers to be improved in areas where the people show an interest in the industry. I do not say this because it is the popular thing to talk about investment in areas, but because where there is a demand from the people who fish, and where the youth in an area show a determination and an interest in the sea, it is vital that help should be given. The Parliamentary Secretary has a particular interest in this and he should get the finances which would permit this necessary development.

On the west coast of Clare there has been investment in one particular harbour. It is not as satisfactory as some fishermen would wish it to be. They would like to see that pier raised. I cannot see why the wishes of fishermen should be ignored. They use the piers. They were brought up in the area and it is vital to have a proper line of communication established between the representatives of the Department and the fishing industry. A very good hearing should be given to fishermen who know what they want. I refer to this because the local fishermen are not happy with the pier provided in this area on the west coast of Clare. They want it raised.

In Dunbeg, where we have had meetings, we found that an investment of £100,000 is necessary to provide a small harbour. We agree that all marine development is expensive but this outlay seems to be entirely out of proportion with the accommodation required by the fishermen. I should like to express my concern, on behalf of the fishermen in this area, that before the next budget provision will be made for some development. There is a tradition of fishing in the area. People who emigrated to earn money have bought pretty expensive boats and without adequate protection in winter for those boats it is disastrous to own them.

For years An Bord Iascaigh Mhara have been looking after the marketing of our catches very successfully. We know that recently the price of fish has not been as good as we would have liked it to be. We would still like to say that Bord Iascaigh Mhara are doing a good job, but I would suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary, even at this stage, that it would be advisable to renew the campaign we have had in the past to eat more fish. They have been pretty successful and we could certainly use our schools, vocational, secondary and national in this matter. They are the right areas in which to lay the groundwork for advising people on this ideal food.

Another aspect of fishing in respect of which there could possibly be improvement is in relation particularly to the dangers of pollution which have hit the headlines over the past year. Pollution has not affected the west coast so much, but it has had its effects along the County Cork coast, and it could occur any place. It is vital that there is an adequate protection system where there are faults in harbours, so that you can have a remedy. Recently, I noticed that a particular petroleum company intended to invest a substantial amount of money in seeing that there is proper protection for the tankers to ensure that spillages will not occur again.

Debate adjourned.