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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 2 Mar 1976

Vol. 288 No. 7

Private Members' Business. - Financing of Health Boards: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann deplores the failure of the Government to provide adequate funds in 1976 to enable regional health boards to maintain the health services at their existing level.

We in the Opposition have put down this motion in order to direct the attention of Dáil Éireann to the fundamental nature of the crisis which has arisen in the nation's health services this year. We are seeking to arouse the Dáil to its responsibility in this situation. In our view the Government have failed to discharge one of their primary duties in a modern society, that is, to provide for the basic health needs of the people.

In that situation we believe that this Parliament has an ultimate responsibility to ensure that these basic needs will be met. We believe that Dáil Éireann must refuse to accept this dereliction of duty by the Minister for Health and the Government, and must instruct them to make the necessary funds available to supply this essential public service and to avoid the widespread hardship and suffering that are definitely inherent in the present provisions.

Let me emphasise, in case there be any misunderstanding either in the House or among the general public, that we are not dealing in this motion with normal annual budgetary exercises, with superficial economies or even sensible cutbacks and savings. We are faced with a major deficiency in the level of funds needed to maintain the health services at an acceptable level throughout the country. This is not a matter of the cutting out of unnecessary luxuries or even eliminating waste. What is involved is a major dislocation of services which meet a basic community need; a dislocation which will cause widespread hardship among the weaker section of our community and which will directly accentuate the suffering of the sick, the disabled and the aged.

Nor is this something which is just temporary in its effects. I believe these cutbacks and this dislocation will have long-term lasting effects on the health of our community. That is the sort of situation that confronts Dáil Éireann today. It is a tragic price to have to pay for bad Government and fiscal mismanagement, but it is the reality we have to face. Dáil Éireann must confront the simple fact that we have arrived at a situation where an Irish Government have to say they are unable to provide the funds needed for a reasonable health service which meets basic humanitarian needs.

The Coalition apologists are seeking to explain away this crisis on two separate grounds. First of all they say it is all due to the economic recession, something that could not be helped, something that is due to world economic conditions. On the other hand they say it has arisen because health costs have escalated to a level that cannot be tolerated. I say categorically that neither of these excuses can be sustained. The economic recession basically has nothing to do with the health financing situation. What we are dealing with in regard to health administration are financial management and budgetary policy, and there is no reason why economic recession should at any time affect this budgetary situation.

What we are dealing with in this motion is the question of allocating the public funds that are available between different services, the question of settling priorities. I believe this situation has arisen because of a combination of two ministerial defaults. First of all we have the failure of the Minister for Finance to safeguard our public finances and we have the parallel failure of the Minister for Health to ensure that in the disposition of the funds that are available our health services are awarded their essential basic priority. To the over-all failure of the Minister for Finance has been added the specific failure of the Minister for Health—it is his particular responsibility.

The real situation is that the unwise, imprudent, misguided general financial policies of the Government have brought us to a critical budgetary situation and in that situation the Government have awarded other services a higher priority than health. They have deprived the health services of the essential level of resources that they require. Nor can it be validly argued that the health services are escalating to intolerable levels. That is not sustainable. An examination of the Estimates in recent years shows that health continues to absorb roughly the same relative proportion of the total budget and that there has been no major change in that overall situation, nor in the last three years have there been any major developments in the health services to which blame could be attributed.

I have maintained, and I still do, that it is not the duty of this House or the Opposition to order the budgetary provisions in detail. We do not have disclosed to us the full facts. We do not have the detailed knowledge of the exigencies and the pressures which would enable us to decide the manner in which the specific budgetary allocations should be made. Only the Government can do that. But we can as a Parliament give a direction to the Government, as we are seeking to do in this motion, that we want our health services to receive their proper priority and to be given an allocation sufficient to maintain them at their present level. We can also demonstrate that the 1976 Book of Estimates contains some very disturbing contrasts in their approach.

We can show that in the Estimates as published there has not been any consistent approach, any balanced coordinated attempt to regulate conflicting demands and to settle priorities on a fair basis of relative needs. Why, for instance, are the health boards being pinned to an artificial inflation-compensating increase of 15 per cent or 16 per cent when AnCO get a phenomenal increase in their current budget of 70 per cent? I want to know the sort of thinking that produced that sort of contrast. Of course at this stage we have only an abridged Book of Estimates to go on. So slovenly do this Government do their work that we are now well into this financial year and we still have not got the details of the Estimates, and if and when we get those details they may reveal some valid reason for this disproportionate increase in the AnCO estimate. Without some such explanation we can only regard it with suspicion.

I direct attention also to the fact that the Estimate for the Department of Industry and Commerce includes a provision of £3 million for investment in mining concerns. How can that be justified in the circumstances of this year? I think it is a piece of nonsense. There is no necessity to lock up £3 million of taxpayers' money in that way. The State can procure any reasonable share that it decides on of the produce of those mines without resorting to a foolish and unnecessary investment of this large amount of taxpayers' money. I believe this is being done for no other reason than to give the Minister for Industry and Commerce some empty status as a shareholder at our expense. This is a rich, extensive ore body, a project well capable of supporting its own development on commercial terms.

I should like to point out that the shortfall on the estimate of the Eastern Health Board is £3.7 million and I am seriously proposing that that £3 million set aside for that unnecessary investment in mining companies well able to look after their own investment be switched to the Department of Health and used to meet the Eastern Health Board deficit. That would not affect mining operations in the Navan area in any way. It is the kind of sorting out of basic priorities that should be taken in present circumstances. Admittedly, the £3 million which is provided is classified in the investment as capital expenditure, but I do not think in the context of this year's budget that need necessarily prevent the switching of it as I have suggested.

We cannot attempt to propound a budget from these benches. We have not got the necessary information to do that, but we want to indicate to the Government the sort of priorities they should adhere to. We want to underline the confused thinking and the false judgments that are manifest in many of the provisions in the Book of Estimates as published. I believe that if we were given the responsibility of doing so I do not think we would have any great difficulty in making other fully justifiable switches inside the existing budgetary dispositions which would take care of the health service deficiency this year without resorting to additional taxes or any similar measures.

I should now like to look at the extent and the depth of the damage the inadequate provisions made by the Minister for 1976 will give rise to in the administration of the health services. The total amount provided in the Estimate for the Department of Health is £249 million and that compares with an actual expenditure of £214 million in 1975, showing a paper increase of 16 per cent. It is instantly obvious that this overall provision is entirely cosmetic; it is mere window dressing. It simply represents the out-turn for last year with a 15 or 16 per cent added, allegedly, to cover for anticipated inflation. It is totally unrealistic. There is no provision for any normal development, any unforeseeable contingencies, any emergencies and, certainly, no possibility for any improvements of any sort.

Next to the allocations to the regional health boards, the largest item in the Department of Health Estimate is the global amount which is provided for the voluntary hospitals, the homes for mentally handicapped and the general medical service. The amount provided under that global heading for 1976 is £93.4 million against an actual expenditure of £80.6 million. Again, that is clearly unrealistic. It is widely known that a number of hospitals throughout the country, and particularly in Dublin city, have no possibility of carrying on their operations at existing level. They will have no alternative but to effect major reductions in staffing and services. In certain cases, as things are, they will have to close down entire wards. Can we allow this to happen? Are we prepared to contemplate a major reduction in something as basic to our community as the hospitalisation of the sick? Voluntary hospitals are in an unprecedented state of dismay and apprehension. Cuts varying between 5 per cent and 20 per cent on their projected budgets are being dictated to them. Some of them estimate that if they maintain their staffs at their existing level—heaven knows those staffs are in many cases already overstretched—they will have to stop feeding their patients sometime at the end of this summer.

The ban on overtime for lay staff in the case of the accident-duty hospitals in the city will result in there being no essential back-up service in these accident-duty hospitals after 5 p.m. It is rumoured that three of the North Dublin trauma hospitals, the Mater, Jervis Street and the Richmond, are being forced indirectly to close down 50 beds each. I should like to know if that is true and if that is the intention of the Minister. This city is seething with rumours of reductions, close-downs and lay-offs and the Minister must deal with this critically dangerous situation when he replies to the motion. We do not want irrelevancies; we do not want attempts to show that hospital X got £Y in 1970 and this year is getting £X and, therefore, there is an increase of a certain percentage. We want factual statements from the Minister as to what are his intentions and what are the possibilities, particularly with regard to the staffing and the servicing of these major Dublin accident hospitals.

It is certain also that the general medical service cannot be maintained at its present level with the moneys provided in that £93.4 million and it is obvious that curtailment, reductions and withdrawals to the poorer sections of our community are going to be savage in their intensity throughout the regional health boards. For instance, the Southern Health Board have already moved in this direction. I should like to read from a circular which the CEO issued on 17th February, 1976. He stated:

It has been the practice for a number of years to grant medical cards automatically to persons who are recipients of non-contributory old age, widows' and orphans' pensions. It has come to notice that a significant number of persons in receipt of such pensions at reduced rates have incomes which are much in excess of those which would normally qualify them for medical cards. The automatic granting of medical cards to pensioners with such incomes has given rise to anomalies. Accordingly, it has now been arranged to discontinue the automatic granting of medical cards to them and to consider their applications on their individual merits within the revised guidelines. Medical cards will, as heretofore, be granted automatically to those in receipt of pensions at the maximum rates.

There is the thin end of the wedge. Those in receipt of non-contributory old age, widows' and orphans' pensions are to be deprived of a privilege they have had for many years of automatically getting medical cards.

The allocations on current account which have been projected for the regional health boards have placed them in an intolerable situation. The economies and cut-backs they are being forced to consider are ludicrous. In the name of common sense and human decency they cannot be tolerated by the Dáil. The situation confronting the eight health boards is basically the same. The Secretary of the Department of Health, in the course of a letter of 12th January, 1976, and at a meeting with the chief executive officers of the eight health boards on 28th January, laid down the law. He stated that the allocations which had been notified will not be increased under any circumstances. He said that no further funds would be forthcoming, apart from budgetary welfare increases, and that section 31 of the 1970 Act would be fully invoked to ensure that these allocations were adhered to. The iron curtain came down with a very definite ominous finality.

It is important for us to realise that all this took place in January and February of this year. Neither the boards nor their management teams were given any advance warning or any opportunity to prepare for this cataclysm. The Secretary of the Department of Health had the good grace to say to the CEOs that he would have liked to have been able to tell them last September. Why did he not tell them? Why was this hapless Minister for Health still perpetrating the fraud at the annual conference of his party in November that he was improving our health services and saying that all was well? He was still going through the pretence when he must have known what the grim reality was. The Minister and his Department, in my view, are guilty of very serious neglect, guilty of accentuating a difficult situation by this coy reticence on his part and not giving the boards and their management teams timely notice of the situation they must face.

Even at this late stage I believe the Minister for Health must be absolutely frank with this House. There is no point in him coming in here with figures and percentages that we are not in a position to check and purporting to prove that he has been doing great things for the Irish health services. It will not wash. This great propaganda bubble has burst and we are now facing the hard and bitter results of the mismanagement by this Government of our financial affairs. On the 5th February, 1976, the chief executive officer of the Eastern Health Board made this report to his board:

The Secretary of the Department of Health has indicated in his letter of 12th January that the Board's allocation for the year will be £33.59 million. Taking into account other income estimated at £2.06 million, the amount available to meet expenditure on health services is £35.65 million. The estimated cost of maintaining the services at the levels obtaining at 31st December, 1975, at current price levels and excluding any expansion of services (other than such limited development as may be possible with the aid of ESF grants is £39.37 million. The Board is, accordingly, faced with the task of securing a major reduction of £3.72 million in expenditure in 1976, and it is clear that the level of services must be affected.

There is no shilly-shallying about that. That is a clear-cut statement of the situation. He goes on:

Paragraph 11 of the Department's letter stresses that adequate provision must be made to support certain items throughout the whole of 1976.

He goes on to say that the cost of those will be £29.08 million; and the cost of the other items is £10.29 million.

But this is the key paragraph:

It is clear that it would not be possible to achieve a reduction of £3.72 million in our estimate of £10.2 million. It is difficult therefore to see how the board can avoid reducing the level of services, including staff numbers and the payments to external agencies.

There is to be no misunderstanding about the situation. I am talking there about the Eastern Health Board, but the situation is exactly the same proportionately in the case of the other seven. The management team of the Eastern Health Board, faced with the alternative of running completely out of money sometime before the end of this year, or trying to carry on through the year on some basis, put forward proposals for the board as follows for consideration: Maintenance works to be postponed; transport services for the conveyance of patients to be reduced; maternity facilities to be reviewed; £30,000 saved by paring the rate of assistance of persons maintained in private homes; economies in various hospitals and homes in heating, lighting, power and household expenses to be actively pursued. We know what that means.

There are other suggestions: In certain hospitals to reduce the intake of junior medical staff; close certain wards; under the community care programme, reduce the age limit for the free milk scheme from five to three years; introduce a means test for the handicapped children constant care scheme; discontinue routine medical examination under the school examination scheme; withhold increase due to foster parents of boarded-out children; hold expenditure at the 1975 level—in other words, cut back on the disabled and infectious diseases allowances, home help, meals on wheels, employment of the blind and so on.

Does that not read like something out of "Oliver Twist", or the sort of regime that a Victorian board of guardians would lay down for a workhouse in 1870? The Southern Health Board CEO calculated that he would have a shortfall of £960,000. He had this to say in a report to his board:

A cutback of expenditure of close on £1 million to meet the cost of existing services cannot be achieved by minor economies here and there. It will necessitate quite severe measures, and no area of the Board's services can quite escape their consequences. Not alone is there no money for new services of any kind but a severe cutback on spending on present services must be made.

He goes on to elaborate a whole series of restrictions on the use of transport for patients being conveyed to hospital. The North Western Health Board will have a shortfall of £850,000. The South Eastern Health Board will have a shortfall of £750,000. The Midland Health Board will have a cutback of £900,000. There will be the same level of cut-back and restrictions proportionately all over the country.

Such proposals and, in particular, the proposals which the Eastern Health Board have had to put forward, are a negation of planning. It is an insult to our intelligence and makes us all look mean and shabby as administrators. Not alone does it cause unnecessary hardship, disappointment and suffering but ultimately it is, as always, counter productive even from the strict financial point of view. It is the blunt-instrument, panic-stricken approach, and it is all based on an erroneous impression that health expenditure cannot be controlled and regulated in an orderly way, because I believe it can.

This absurd situation will keep on recurring if this Minister for Health is guided, as he appears to be guided, by dogma rather than by realism and common sense. He keeps on foolishly suggesting that all that is needed to have a perfect health service is some vague good intention and that Fianna Fáil's insistence on ordered, planned development as resources became available was obscurantist and reactionary.

The situation we now face arises because of lack of sound long-term thinking about the kind of health services we need and the kind we can afford. In the absence of such basic thinking and planning we can certainly expect piecemeal, ad hoc attack on the estimates from time to time, depending on the extent to which the general financial budgetary situation is mismanaged. Of course we can hope that it will not, for a long time, be as seriously mismanaged as it has been during the last two or three years.

This sort of panic reaction to a financial crisis brings suffering and hardship to those unable to bear it, perhaps those who are least able to mount any effective volume of protest. On this occasion I believe there has been indiscriminate overkill and that the situation can still be met by a reallocation of existing provisions in the context of the budget, even as it is presented. We can hope perhaps that the urgency and the panic which this precipitate action of the Government in regard to the health services has generated will persuade the Government, and more importantly, those socialist theorists that we have imported into the public service and imposed on the trained and experienced civil servants, that a rational health policy for Ireland cannot be imported, that it must be built up on the basis of our own experience, our own needs, and that it must be realistically related to our own resources.

Perhaps this crisis will force upon the Minister some positive thinking about the future financing of the health services, the extension, for instance, of the insurance principle, the full utilisation of public and private resources and a variety of other possibilities. Perhaps it will, but I doubt it. Responsibility for the allocation for the health services for 1976 has moved from the Government to the Dáil. The Government have failed to see where their duty lies. They have become totally confused, being overwhelmed by the financial chaos of their own unwise and imprudent policies. It is now the solemn duty of Dáil Éireann, in this far reaching and fundamental situation, to restore common sense and sanity and to insist that the existing services be maintained during the coming year at their present level.

I would like to direct in a very special way the attention of the Labour backbenchers in particular to the implications for them of this motion of ours. Their respective electorates will be watching very carefully what action they take on this motion. They, like all of us, have heard grand humanitarian sentiments from them over the years. They have heard of their devotion to the interests of the poorer and weaker sections of the community. I believe the time has now come for those Labour backbenchers to demonstrate if those were genuine principles sincerely held or if they were merely political clichés.

We on this side of the House, with our voting strength, cannot stop the Government closing hospital wards, throwing old people out of homes, forcing nurses to work intolerably long hours, cutting out meals on wheels, cutting out children's clinics or cutting out free milk. But if only three of those Labour backbenchers stood by their principles Dáil Éireann could safeguard the people's health on this occasion. We can make the Government do their duty to the poor, the weak, the sick and the disabled. We can demonstrate that Dáil Éireann is the ultimate guardian of the people's welfare and not just a rubber stamp for the economists of the Department of Finance. Will those Labour backbenchers stand up and be counted now when the ordinary men and women of Ireland need them on this vital, important, fundamental, basic issue?

I propose this motion to the House. As I have said I believe that the cut-backs which the Government have proposed, the allocations which they have made, will cause fundamental, long-term, serious dislocation of our health services. This dislocation will cause immediate hardship, suffering and inconvenience but it will also have serious long-term implications from the point of view of the health services' structure and also from the point of view of the welfare and the health of the community. I believe we must express our complete rejection of the Government's proposal.

We must indicate to the Government by passing this motion that the fundamental community services cannot be dislocated and disrupted in this way and that we demand that the Government make an allocation which will be adequate to maintain services at their existing level. That is all we are asking. We are not asking the Government for improvements or for development, although we might well do that. When Fianna Fáil were in Government we were constantly harassed from the Labour benches in particular for increases of all sorts. We are not even asking for that on this occasion. We are only asking that the Government provide enough money to maintain basic services at their existing level and that they do not force health boards throughout the country to use the shabby, mean tricks of cutting out all sorts of basic humanitarian services. I had a case reported to me today of an old people's home in Ennis, which is only typical of what is happening all over the country, where old people of 75 and 80 years of age are being thrown out of the place, which has been their home for many years, because of this financial deprivement of the Government in the allocation to the different health boards.

I hope I have said enough to persuade the House that whatever has to be done be done. I believe it can be done by a reallocation of the existing provisions and that certain moneys which are being foolishly devoted to other purposes could be switched to meet the deficiencies in the health services. I believe, whatever way it is done, that there is a solemn obligation on Dáil Éireann to pass this motion and to insist that the Government make those provisions to enable us to maintain our health services at a reasonable level.

In the course of his proposal of this motion Deputy Haughey used such terms as drama, rumour, crisis and panic reaction. At one stage he mentioned tragedy. I suggest to him and the other Members of his party in this House that it does not suit him to stand up here in that fashion and make drama out of one of the most important subjects which can be discussed in this or any other Parliament —the ill health of the unfortunate people in our midst. The short contribution I make to this debate will, I hope, be made with more calmness and coolness.

I can well understand the anxiety of people having listened to Deputy Haughey and indeed to other Fianna Fáil Deputies in the House during the past month and having read the reports of the different health board meetings throughout the country, where we had the Fianna Fáil Deputies, Senators and spokesmen in county councils crying out that there was to be a drastic deterioration in the quality of our health services. I want to say straight away that that is utter nonsense. One will acknowledge Deputy Haughey's new found concern for those ill people in our midst but I am tempted to ask why the same concern was not shown by his colleagues when Fianna Fáil were in office. Fianna Fáil were in power for 16 consecutive years. It is fair for me to say that their record in the health field does not stand up that well on close examination. The truth of the matter is that it was not until this Government took office that the people generally got the full health services they were entitled to and which they could rightly expect. I do not believe there is anybody, no matter what his politics are, who can deny that under this Administration there has been a dramatic and unprecedented improvement in the quality of the health services.

I suggest that it is not possible to approach discussion of a motion of this kind without referring to the whole range of Government expenditure. Neither can one consider the 1975 and 1976 figures in isolation. Health expenditure in this and other countries has been the subject of great growth for a long time. The figures I shall quote show that the Government have not been negligent in regard to expenditure on health. The percentage of our GNP spent on health has increased from 4.8 per cent in 1972-73 to an estimated 6.3 per cent in the present year. Deputy Haughey has asked us not to indulge in irrelevancies. I trust that what I have to say is strictly relevant to the motion.

Of course, the Government would have liked to continue the progress and improvement in the health services this year, but solely because of economic circumstances that are well known to the House this is not possible. In his contribution Deputy Haughey referred more than once to the Eastern Health Board. I shall leave the affairs of that board to be debated by people better fitted than I to do that, but I have some experience of the Southern Health Board so my remarks mainly will be in connection with the administration of that most efficient board.

The basic figures relating to the Southern Health Board are as follows: the total allocation for the area, that is, Cork and Kerry, for 1975, as revised after the Supplementary Estimate which was passed in November was £35,286,000; the allocation for 1976 is £39,570,000, of which £10,140,000 relates to indirect expenditure in that it is channelled by the Department directly to the body paying doctors under the choice of doctor scheme, the voluntary hospitals and so on. This leaves an allocation to the board for their own expenditure of £29,430,000 or an increase of £3,130,000 compared with the final allocation in 1975. No one pretends that this increase allowed for growth and expenditure. Indeed the Department's circular notifying the board of their allocation stated that because of the economic situation the Government have had to decide reluctantly that the growth in health expenditure in real terms could not continue during 1976. It was made clear also that the allocation to the health boards would require therefore the exercise of economy in planning and administration.

The CEO and the members of the Southern Health Board have approached the situation in a most constructive way. The CEO reporting to the health board on the 29th January, 1976, had this to say:

In facing the extremely difficult time that lies ahead the Board is fortunate that its services have undergone such considerable improvement over a number of years that it is now in a better position to face a pause in development than it would have been some years ago.

The report goes on to say that in order to cope with the situation the greatest possible understanding and co-operation will be needed within the board itself, its management and its staff at all levels and, above all, from the public. This was an example of the Southern Health Board approaching in a real and constructive way the situation that has been made known to them.

The result of the consideration by the Southern Health Board of that report of the manager is reflected in reports of their meeting held only yesterday, details of which appear in today's press. The board say that if they effect economies in such areas as the use of taxis for the transport of patients and the prescribing of excessive quantities of drugs, it is clear that their activities can be financed from the allocation for the present year without any reduction in services. In an article in today's edition of The Cork Examiner, under the heading “Taxi Service for Sick being Abused” it is stated in relation to the cost of taxi and ambulance services that the board's CEO said in his report that this cost was running at about £250,000 per year and that he was satisfied that it was subject to abuse. Since this situation of abuses was known to every member of the health board, and perhaps to almost every member of the public in the area, was it not time in the public interest that there be some cutting down on expenditure in Counties Cork and Kerry of the £250,000 on ambulance and taxi services? The reaction I got in my own area was that it was time something was done in this regard. At about 3 o'clock this afternoon I communicated by telephone with the CEO and he assured me that yesterday he gave a personal guarantee to members of the board that no suffering or hardship will be caused by this cutting back in so far as special categories of patients, such as the mentally handicapped or geriatrics, are concerned.

Presumably he included also the physically handicapped. The mentally handicapped can stroll to a hospital, the physically handicapped cannot.

Of course. I am sure that this CEO, who expressed so much compassion for the mentally handicapped, will look after the physically handicapped, too. I am anxious to ensure that any cut-backs that are necessary will be effected only in the areas where they can do least damage. Also, at yesterday's meeting of the Southern Health Board the CEO guaranteed that there would be no redundancies in the hospital services as they existed in 1975 and as they exist now.

What about medical cards for old-age pensioners?

I am glad the Deputy reminded me about medical cards. During the last three years the limits set out for medical cards have been considerably increased, even allowing for inflation. On 1st January this year they were further increased not only for a married man and his wife but in respect of allowances for children and for outgoings.

The Government are taking them from non-contributory old-age pensioners.

I do not accept that.

It is in the statement.

It could also be argued that the guidelines are higher.

I wanted to refer to the importance of the health services with regard to drugs and in this connection I shall refer to the Southern Health Board because that is the area with which I am most familiar. I quote from The Cork Examiner of today's date part of an article under the heading “Taxi service for sick being abused”.

A lady member...told yesterday's meeting of the Southern Health Board in Cork that she had been told by a chemist that £500 worth of drugs had gone into one home,...

The ex-chairman of the Southern Health Board, Mr. Vincent O'Connell, said that drugs were being used in that part of the country like fresh air. Is there any reason why an administration should not take notice of those facts and set about eliminating the abuses and effecting economies?

I would remind the House that in the last three years there has been standardisation with regard to eligibility for medical cards and this is a step in the right direction. There has been a scheme providing assistance towards the cost of drugs, the payment of monthly allowances for domi-cilary care of handicapped children has been introduced and there has been an extension of the scheme with regard to long-term illness. Allowances for disabled persons have been introduced also. All of these benefits have brought about a tremendous improvement in the services available for the unfortunate people we are talking about this evening. The total amount of non-capital expenditure for 1972-73 was £107 million approximately but this year the figure was £242.48 million. Even allowing for inflation that represents a substantial growth in real terms.

Each Department of State, including the Department of Health, were asked in this difficult year to effect economies where they would least hurt. It is true to say that in this endeavour all the health boards and their administrative staffs are making a genuine effort to constrain public expenditure. In my official capacity as Parliamentary Secretary in the last month I met three of the eight CEOs of the health boards and I discussed this subject with them. Each of the three members said to me that while they would much prefer to have more money, like all of us, they felt they could run their boards on the allocations they got from the Department without any severe hardship to anyone, especially the underprivileged.

The House will agree at this time it is reasonable to ask for a tighter kind of housekeeping. I appeal to Deputies, particularly those who are members of health boards, to support the boards in their efforts this year to obtain the best value in the administration of the boards. The Minister, his Department or officials in the health boards do not accept with any pleasure the fact that they will have to do with less but it may be a good thing for all of us to stop and think. I am convinced that if we do this we will find that the effort will be worth while and that there will be very little hardship caused. My hope is that the underprivileged and the less fortunate will not suffer as a result of the economies that, unfortunately, must be made.

In the seven years since I was Minister for Health I did not intervene in a debate on this subject but left it to my successors to do their best in a difficult job. I agree with much of what was said on both sides, by Deputy Haughey in his very able speech and by the Parliamentary Secretary in his most useful contribution.

I want to say that what I shall offer now is intended to be helpful and, in so far as it will be critical, I hope it will be critical in the best meaning of that word. The Parliamentary Secretary gave figures for the increase in the cost of the health services in recent years. These show that in 1970-71 the cost was £43 million, increasing to £52 million, £63 million, £96 million, £102 million—that latter figure was from April to December, 1974, when the change in the fiscal year was made—£207 million for 1975, which is provisional, and an estimated £242 million for 1976. I have left out in all these figures the odd money though this year's odd money is £483,000 which would be very helpful indeed if it were pumped directly into some service in aid of the needy, the poor and the handicapped.

I agree with Deputy Haughey that the figures themselves are not all that relevant. What is relevant is the basic question as to whether today there is an improvement commensurate with the multiplication by six of the cost of the service in the past six or seven years. My last yearly estimated cost of the service was £24 million and that ultimately worked out at £26 million. Where I do not agree with the Parliamentary Secretary is with his statement that the service has been improved commensurate with that enormous increase in cost. I congratulate all those responsible for any improvement whatever in the service in recent years and there have been very considerable improvements and obviously the most important improvement was the change, a change with which all of us agreed, from the old poor law system to the choice of doctor and chemist and so forth.

I do not accept for a moment that the people are receiving from the health services anything at all commensurate with this vast multiplication in cost and, while I sympathise and agree with the Parliamentary Secretary that there is a great deal of abuse by some doctors, by many patients and so on, of the new services, and here is where I agree with Deputy Haughey, I think this has passed from the Department and the Government and this Dáil with the enormous salaries that are now being paid to the vast array of bureaucrats throughout the country in so many different health boards. How can you explain a situation in Cork or anywhere else where the taxi service had to be withdrawn, curtailed or cut down? How could that possibly be? How do you pay vast salaries to people who are not able to control a taxi service for those going from their homes to hospitals? What are these people for? By what justification are we extracting vast sums from the populace and still these people on a health board are incapable of runing a taxi service for someone unfit to travel by himself? That is the question I ask the Minister for Health and his Parliamentary Secretary. I say, and I am sure I am absolutely right, that what is gobbling up most of the money is the vast increase in salaries and wages for bureaucrats fed on a mountain of paper which is driving the doctors, the chemists and the ordinary citizens——

And the patients.

——into psychiatric homes. If this Government or some subsequent Government are not able to tackle this situation then Deputy Haughey's dream and all our dreams that we would be able to cater for all our poor, all our mentally and physically handicapped and all our old people inside or outside institutions will forever disappear. I am not saying that I blame the Minister for all these developments. He inherited some of his problems from his immediate predecessor. I do, however, blame him for attempting to provide free hospitalisation for everybody without having the necessary consultation with those who were supposed to provide that service, in circumstances where even the most bigoted must have been able to see that even the alleged beneficiaries did not want it and do not want it now. Here again I profoundly agree with what Deputy Haughey said about socialistic theories. It is quite ludicrous to hear Deputy O'Connell trying in an aside to justify the removal of the medical cards from old age pensioners. Plus ca change plus ca même chose.

I shall answer the Deputy.

I do not care whether the Deputy answers me or not. What I am offering here tonight for the first time in seven years is intended to be helpful. I am not interested in attacking Deputy O'Connell or anybody else. I have neved done so and I do not intend to do it now. I am trying to offer to the House what I hope are helpful suggestions. They are not meant to be personal to anybody here. I repeat that the Minister made a mistake in trying to force a free hospitalisation service without the necessary consultation and ultimately he had to recognise it was a mistake. I hope he and all his successors will continue to realise it will continue to be a mistake and also realise that in Government what appear to be fanciful socialistic theories do not actually work out in practice.

The truth is the hospital system is on the verge of breaking down. Perhaps this is the appropriate time to express my own deep disappointment but in all the years since 1969 no real progress at all has been made in the rationalisation of the hospital structure. There used to be 29 acute hospitals in the city of Dublin. I do not know whether it is 29 or 28 now, or what it is. What I do know is that there are far too many. I also know the Minister's predecessor dumped the FitzGerald Report into the nearest wastepaper basket on his arrival in the Custom House. He was a curious man. He could not persuade himself to take an interest in anything that he himself had not invented. It was a tragedy. The present Minister has also rejected the FitzGerald Report. The basis of his rejection is, I think, mainly founded on the fact that the report was compiled by consultants and therefore did not sufficiently reflect the feelings of the GPs and other medics of intermediate level. I do not accept that as valid or fair criticism. I sympathise with all the doctors, whatever stage of eminence each of them individually reached or had reached at the time, for the hard work they put into the making of that report, only to find it summarily and comprehensively rejected by two successive Ministers for Health. The Minister's new proposal has not succeeded in doing anything more than creating further unnecessary division, dispute and debate at a time when the rationalisation of our hospitals structure is even more urgent and necessary than ever it was. Why? There is no question or doubt but that this country cannot sustain the number of so called acute treatment hospitals in existence today. Unless steps are taken very rapidly to take the present situation by the throat, then the hospital system is going to break down in the very near future. The fact that so many abuses occurred and are still occurring and the fact that the health boards appear to be incapable of dealing with these local abuses, seem to justify at this stage a re-examination of the operation of the Health Act which I introduced and which my successors brought to fruition.

A committee of this House should be set up to re-examine the functioning of the eight health boards at present. Their terms of reference would be very easy to devise. The first term of reference would be to avoid unnecessary administrative waste. The second term of reference would be to avoid operational waste, and the third would be to take very strong steps against those who are abusing what we in this House made possible for the best of reasons.

In recent years we have had a lot of talk about alcoholism. The unfortunate Minister for Health at present, as a result of the activities of an erstwhile quondam shadow Minister for Health, will wind up having to provide accommodation for vast numbers of other erstwhile pint drinkers who will be suffering from psychological disturbances because the pint has been put past the capacity of the working man's pay. They will probably wind up in a psychotic state for which the Minister for Health will have to pay. It will indeed be a fine tribute to the combination of a former shadow Minister for Health now masquerading as a Minister for Finance. It seems a curious by-product of the marriage of people who seven or eight years ago violently disagreed in particular about how the health services should be financed and what should or should not be provided.

I congratulate all concerned in the old health authorities and in the new health boards for any improvements that have been effected in the service in recent years. I deeply regret that six times the amount of money spent in 1970-71, which is only over five years ago, has not shown anything at all commensurate in the way of improvement for the people the health services are intended to serve. I believe that the blame for that in the last two years rests basically on the shoulders of this Government, not especially the Minister for Health. It is the by-product of a misguided overall policy, including, as Deputy Haughey said, no clear understanding of the country's real priorities and what appeared to me many times to be an unthinking rushing forward into expenditure for the sake of expenditure. A profligate who is using his own money eventually goes broke. Even a Government profligate using the people's money will eventually find that the people are broke. This year's budget showed that this Government had come to that stage in their overall situation. What has been happening in the last three or four months in the health service field proves that it is happening there as well. It is a sad thing and something that should not have happened.

I sympathise with the Minister for Health in the problems that have resulted from the Government's overall failure, but I also think it is time that he and his Department set up the committee which I mentioned a few minutes ago to re-examine the entire structure of the health boards. I say that, having been the Minister for Health at the time the legislation was prepared to create these boards in the first instance. If the present rate of expenditure goes on for the benefit of other than those who ought to be the recipients, then the whole service will roll backwards, not forwards, and then, at an even greater cost, we will be providing progressively less and less for the people who need the health service.

I was impressed listening to Deputy Flanagan, and it is regrettable that we do not hear him more often on a matter on which he feels so strongly and deeply. Since he has now broken his silence we may have many contributions from him in this field.

I am delighted that he has proposed that an all-party committee be set up. I asked the Minister in this House many months ago if he would consider setting up such a committee to consider the whole structure of the health services and how we might re-organise these health boards. The Minister's answer was, "How do you unscramble a scrambled egg?"

We have a situation which is very difficult in terms of money available for the health services. I do not know whether this has resulted from a shortage of money or the information to the health boards as to what was available, or trying to delude people that no money was available, or to general confusion about cutting back. It must be obvious to all that we cannot have unlimited money available for the health services, and Deputy Flanagan said what I had proposed to say: money does not necessarily bring health. You can spend many millions on the health services, but who is reaping the rewards of this money? Is it the patients, the people who need health? No, it is not. I wonder if the elected representatives on the health board have sufficient power to see that the spending of the money is properly supervised. We have heard the rumours and seen the panic situation that has arisen. Major cutbacks, as I know them, affect patients and doctors. I have not seen yet one cutback in the administrative end of the health boards.

At the bottom there are.

Yes, but not at the top. We have created cumbersome monsters, and with due respect to Deputy Flanagan, it is unfortunate that it was he who brought in this structure, this McKinsey report, because it has succeeded only in producing top-heavy administrative bodies which are sucking away like parasites at the money being shovelled in from the Department of Health. In no area whatsoever at top administrative level has any effort been made to economise.

There is a threat to St. Loman's hospital that the whole lot will close down. This fear and panic among people and patients as to what will happen is regrettable. I asked the Minister a week or two ago if he would consider calling in the CEOs and having full-length discussions with them on what the situation is and where economies can be effected without impairing the health service with regard to the patients and those who treat them directly. As I see it, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, the main economies are in the community health care services such as meals on wheels and disabled persons maintenance allowance. This is the area that needs more and more money to enable it to function properly. I had a person up to me last night disabled and unfit for work. He had been told, "You qualify but we are sorry there is no money to pay you." I have written to the Minister about that because this is the area where cutbacks are taking place affecting the ordinary poor persons. He cannot have the disabled persons maintenance allowance. He is disabled. They said, "You are qualified. A doctor has examined you; you qualify all right as a disabled person; but we have no money to pay you."

Is this the situation we as legislators are going to permit to continue, with these cumbersome bodies deciding everything at an administrative level, very top-heavy, with these massive salaries which Deputy Flanagan has adverted to? Should we allow it to continue any longer or should we take the matter in hands and set up an all party committee and see how we can restructure this and bring it back to its own level? I asked the Minister to consider a cost-benefit analysis of the health boards and how they are functioning, and the cost vis-à-vis the old local health authority at county council level. This should have been done a long time ago. It is a pity we should have been forced into a situation like this at this short notice, when already two months of the year have gone by, and we will see more than 6 to 7 per cent cutback as told to us in the Eastern Health Board. You will see a 12 to 15 per cent cutback because the cutbacks are not beginning to take effect until April. This is where the cutbacks are much more serious with more serious repercussions.

There may be isolated cases of abuse. I would refer to the Parliamentary Secretary's remark about the tax. He said it was subject to abuse, but everything is. Unemployment benefit and social welfare disability benefits are subject to abuse; but "subject to abuse" and massive abuse are two completely different things. We talk about abuse of drugs. Of course there is abuse of drugs. I can keep patients out of hospital by putting them on the necessary expensive drugs. Which am I to do? Am I to say "No, cut down on that, and I will have you admitted to hospital"? I was faced with that problem yesterday morning. Should I prescribe the expensive drug for that patient? I found that my prescribing happens to be above the normal but I keep that patient out of hospital. Is it better to spend £5 on a patient for a drug or let the State pay £140 for his bed for a week? These are the problems we face. One asks oneself which is better for the patient and which is better for the State. I say to patients, "You cannot have this and you cannot have that because it is costing too much". These are the facts we have to consider when we talk about abuse.

I never come into problems about over-visiting. However doctors are in fear of the bodies that investigate them for over-visiting. I would ask the Department to ask the health boards to educate the public on the system of calling doctors. Doctors go, not because they want to abuse the service, but if they refuse a patient that patient may die or anything may happen. The Minister for Health is not going to appear in the court and say "I ordered the doctors not to visit". This is the problem when the doctor must give the benefit of the doubt. He may feel that the patient is overanxious and should not need a visit, but he has to say to himself, "It could be a coronary", if for instance the patient complains of pain in his chest. Is the doctor to say, "You are visiting me too often, I cannot see you but I can call out to see you"? The doctor has to make up his mind about this, but he cannot take the responsibility of saying, "I am sorry, I must cutback. I cannot go and visit you". That patient dies, and who takes the blame?

These are points to bear in mind when talking about economies in the health service. It is not good enough to say that we must have economies at that level. We cannot have them. The Minister should be saying: "We must in the health service at the level of the community pour money into that service." It is a real investment in the health service if you pour the money in there. This is where they should call in the CEOs and tell them "I want the money poured into that area, because if you do that you will be reducing the cost of the health services in this country". That is what we should be aiming to do.

I was interested in a point made by Deputy Haughey. He said we as backbenchers must consider what we are going to do to help the health service. His argument had much merit.

Debate adjourned.
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