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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 Jun 1976

Vol. 291 No. 8

Extension of the Food Aid Convention, 1971: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves the Protocol for the Third Extension of the Food Aid Convention 1971 which has been laid before the Dáil.

The Food Aid Convention, 1971, which is part of the international wheat agreement, was originally established for a period of three years which expired on 30th June, 1974. Under the terms of the Treaty of Accession to the European Communities, Ireland was obliged to accede to the Food Aid Convention because the original member states and the European Economic Community as such were parties to it. We did so in June, 1973. In June, 1974, and June, 1975, with the approval of Dáil Éireann, we deposited declarations of provisional application of protocols for one-year extensions of the convention.

At their meeting on 31st May/1st June, the Council of Ministers of the Community agreed that it would be desirable to extend the Community's participation in the Food Aid Convention for a further period of two years from 30th June, 1976. This proposed extension of two years is in accordance with the recommendation of the food aid committee, which is the organ of the international wheat agreement administering the convention. The Community Ministers agreed also that as some member states will not be in a position to arrange for the deposit of full instruments of accession prior to the deadline of 18th June, the Community as such will, in accordance with Article VIII of the protocol, deposit a declaration of provisional application of the protocol. Given the approval of Dáil Éireann, the Government propose to deposit a similar declaration on behalf of Ireland and to arrange for the deposit of full instruments of accession later.

The objective of the Food Aid Convention is to carry out a food aid programme in cereals, mainly wheat, for the benefit of developing countries. The countries party to the convention, apart from the Community, are Argentina, Australia, Canada, Finland, Japan, Sweden, Switzerland and the USA. Under the convention and its protocols, the Community have undertaken to supply 1,287,000 tonnes of cereals as its minimum annual contribution in the form of wheat, coarse grains or derivative products suitable for human consumption. This contribution is discharged partly by the Community from their own resources and partly by the member states in accordance with a fixed scale. For the years 1976-77 and 1977-78 Ireland's percentage share is 0.54 per cent of that part discharged by the member states, which amounts to 3,080 tonnes.

In 1975 the Government allocated a sum of £300,000 in the Vote for the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries for the discharge of our obligations under the Food Aid Convention. This allocation enabled a shipment of 3,300 tonnes of wheat to be made to the world food programme last November. In the current year a sum of £600,000 has been provided and it is hoped that this amount will enable us to discharge most, if not all, of our outstanding obligations. The necessary arrange-

The provision of a food aid programme in cereals for the benefit of ments are being actively pursued both within the Community and with the world food programme.

developing countries continues to be of major importance in the field of development assistance. Unfortunately, food production in these countries falls well below requirements due to a combination of inadequate agricultural development, international economic dislocation and natural disasters. The international community have however begun to recognise that priority must now be given to increased and more efficient agricultural production in the developing countries themselves. Deputies will be aware that in Rome last week a United Nations Conference established the International Fund for Agricultural Development to which the Government pledged a sum of £500,000 payable over a three-year period. It is my hope that this new fund will become operative as soon as possible and will begin to tackle these vast problems of underdevelopment. In the meantime, however, it is generally recognised that short- and medium-term programmes of food aid are indispensable if many more millions of people in the Third World are not to become the victims of starvation and disease. The Government therefore fully support the further extension of the Food Aid Convention and accordingly I recommend the motion to the House.

The fact that this is the third extension of the Food Aid Convention in itself underlines the continuing and real need which the population in the starving countries find themselves because these are the peoples at whom the convention is directed.

In the first instance, it is important to stress the depth of the misery in most of the countries in which these programmes operate. In the developed world—and we belong to that category—we cannot always grasp the extent of this misery. About 900 million people in the world at present have an annual income of less than £40. If we take into account the enormity of the problem we can begin to recognise that, apart from the just call they can make on us as fellow citizens of the universe, even if we were only thinking in terms of our own security, we must continue in a more determined way to help solve their problems. As the Parliamentary Secretary has rightly said, one of these problems relates to immediate relief by way of short-term food aid.

The Parliamentary Secretary will also agree that that is only a small stone laid in the dam against the huge flood. It is not going to stem the flood of world misery and starvation. Therefore, one has to look beyond it, particularly to the obligations on the developed world to help increase food production in these countries by technological expertise. This problem can only be solved by a determined commitment on the part of all developed countries to pool their resources to help these developing countries. In the meantime, millions die from starvation every year. Irrespective of what this programme intends to do, in six months time countless millions will have died from starvation. No Government can be consistent in regard to their obligations at home if they overlook their obligations abroad. Our obligations cannot be limited to what we can see at home. We must be constantly directed towards the obligations we have to these starving people, an obligation which many Irish people have recognised in various personal services. Sometimes it is suggested that we should look after ourselves and that some of the administrations of the Third World countries are not such as to attract merited aid from any source. There may well be malpractices and mal-administration in many of these countries but this cannot excuse our failure to continue to tackle this problem.

I am glad to say that our Association for Personal Services Overseas has been doing a considerable amount of work in setting up proper and fair systems of administration and advising on effective government agencies. For that reason, I welcome the contribution which the Government will be making to the international fund for agricultural development. The extension of these programmes will not keep pace with the crisis. Mr. Robert MacNamara, President of the World Bank, in his annual address to the Board of Governors in September, 1975, made reference to income and investment levels. He estimated income and investment levels up to 1980 between the developed and developing countries. The GNP per capita in the low income countries in 1970 on average was of the order of $105, which is over £50.

The estimated GNP per capita in those countries at the end of this decade, 1980, will be 108 dollars, an increase of 3 dollars in real terms or less than £2 in one decade, in effect an increase of .2 per cent in the growth rate per capita income related to the GNP. By comparison if we look at the position of the OECD countries, in real terms, we find that where the figure GNP per capita in 1970 was 3,100 dollars, by 1980 in real terms it is estimated to be 4,000 dollars, thereby an increase in real terms of 900 dollars, meaning an increase of 2.6 per cent per capita income. That shows how terrible this problem is, that far from decreasing the gap between the comfortable world and the starving world, at present progress rates, the gap is widening to an extent that is intolerable, to an extent that will not be tolerated, by the developing countries themselves even if tolerated by the developed countries. We may have a very short time to wake up to the seriousness and enormity of this problem.

In relation to our position, the Parliamentary Secretary will be aware of the fact that the United Nations' target set out, for contribution by way of development aid, by 1979 is .7 per cent of GNP. That standard was set out by the United Nations as being necessary to cope with the problem as it is at the moment, to prevent the problem from becoming worse. Very few countries with the notable exception of Sweden, Holland and Denmark are measuring up to that commitment of .7 per cent. We through the Minister, some time ago, committed ourselves to a target of .35 per cent by 1979. We have to recognise in the first instance that that .35 per cent represents half of the recommended UN contribution. Lest it should be thought that this will be a matter of political division between us on either side of the House I am saying that whatever contributions would be made by this Government would have to be honoured and, indeed, extended by the Government that will succeed them. I can say without any doubt that there would be no question of cutting back on the percentage of GNP being applied.

I have invited the Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary on many occasions to propose what one would call a truly bi-partisan approach in this area. There is grave apprehension at the moment, as the Parliamentary Secretary will recognise, in view of the fact that it is contemplated that instead of actually contributing .35 per cent by the end of 1979 it now seems that our contribution will be curtailed to .25 per cent. I would like to have a firm statement from the Parliamentary Secretary to the effect that we will stand by the targets and commitments given by his Minister and by himself. The Minister on 25th October, 1974, when he was addressing a seminar organised by the Commission for Justice and Peace, made it very clear that there would be no question of any reduction, or of backing out of our increase to the rate of .5 per cent per annum to reach our .35 per cent by the end of 1978. In the Official Report on the 10th April, 1975, Volume 279, column 1507 I asked the Parliamentary Secretary was he satisfied that we will achieve the commitment aimed at, namely, .35 per cent of our GNP in three to four years. The Parliamentary Secretary in replying said:

The increase has been slow this year because of the general economic difficulty through which this country and other countries have been passing, but the commitment remains unchanged.

I refer the Parliamentary Secretary to an article arising from statements which he made in the winter edition of One World which is a bulletin on world development and justice, published jointly by Trócaire and the Irish Commission for Justice and Peace, where various commitments given by the Minister for Foreign Affairs from April, 1974, are quoted, namely, .35 per cent by that year. This was universally taken at the time as meaning that by 1975 we would be giving .35 per cent of our GNP in development assistance. During the 18 months following the target figure was used in various aid projections and was widely quoted on different occasions. It was with some considerable shock that it was learnt that this percentage which is already 50 per cent below the UN target figure was not correct. The wording of the original commitment entails reaching a target of only .25 per cent of GNP by 1979. In other words, 30 per cent less than everyone had assumed.

I want the Parliamentary Secretary, when replying, to state finally and ultimately what the Government position is and if he does absolutely and unequivocally nail down the commitment to .35 per cent. The Parliamentary Secretary will, of course, realise that even then we would be only reaching half of the recommended UN standard. If it were to be curtailed even by .1 per cent, having regard to inflation and the increasing GNP, it is likely that by 1979 the difference between .25 per cent and .35 per cent of our GNP would be about £6 million in 1979 terms. For that reason when we talk in terms of .1 per cent we are talking in terms of a very real contribution. I would be glad to hear the Parliamentary Secretary confirm that there is no such going back on any such commitment given more than once by the Minister both in the House and elsewhere and that we will continue on the target that we have set ourselves in the hope that whoever will be in Government will not just aim at that target by 1979 but will really aim at the UN target which is .7 per cent, which is double what we are at the moment committed to. In the light of the commitments which have been made by the Government we on this side of the House have committed ourselves at least as much to the Fianna Fáil position here.

I asked this question recently. Can the Parliamentary Secretary tell me if we can soon expect a formal, comprehensive policy statement from the Government, if not a White Paper, on the field of development aid? This touches many areas of service to the developing countries, the personnel service, financial contributions, technological development and a wide range of areas. It affects many different organisations in this country, voluntary organisations, State-sponsored organisations, the Government, and so on. They are all operating at the moment, to a certain extent, according to what they see as their own immediate priority. They are doing the best they can, but they are doing it in the absence of an overall development aid policy which should be presented by the Government who, if they are to be consistent in their obligations at home, must also be consistent in their obligations abroad.

I see that as a demand on both sides of the House. I have already stated on more than one occasion that Fianna Fáil policy will and must include—not just at election times but at all times—a concerned and comprehensive policy on development aid. I know discussions have been taking place. I would not cut off meaningful discussions. There is an urgent need to set out the framework of how the Government think these various policies should be pursued by the various organisations concerned. Otherwise, as has happened so often, even the limited contribution we make through voluntary and other organisations will be dissipated because of lack of co-ordination, lack of programming and lack of direction and leadership.

The Association for Personal Services Overseas and the initiative taken in that direction are to be welcomed. They have given very useful assistance and advice. They endeavour to assist people in the ordinary administration of Government. I am not saying—far from it—we are a shining example to any country. It is fair to say that, in the ordinary administration of our public affairs, we have a standard and a level of integrity which derive not just from the character of the Irish people but from a tradition of service and concern. This can be applied to great effect in these countries. The role of the Association for Personal Services Overseas could be extended in many of these countries. I know they have been active. I do not want to name them. They are very welcome. Because of the understanding and courage they have shown, the Irish effort has been welcomed in a way efforts of other countries would not be welcomed. In our assistance there is no implication that we are holier or better than those who are being assisted. There is great scope for developing and extending that contribution which is not, in a sense, as financially demanding as contributions such as the one we are now discussing.

Before this White Paper or policy statement is published I should like to have an opportunity of communicating the views of this side of the House on a comprehensive basis. One or two things occur to me. They are not necessarily original ideas of my own. I have been encouraged by some associations I have had with people working in this area, and with people who have had experience in some of our State-sponsored bodies. First, Ireland is in a peculiarly strong position to be seen to be a centre of international development policy. For many historical reasons which we need not go into, we were never in a position to exploit the resources much less the population of any other country. To the extent that we were not, and others of the European countries were, inevitably we enjoy goodwill, which perhaps we in this generation do not merit, in these developing countries which other western European countries do not.

So much has to be done in this whole area that there is a great possibility of having an international develment aid centre established here. I am not aware of any such centre in any part of the world. If we are to tackle this problem on a comprehensive basis. I cannot imagine a better location for such an international centre—obviously funded by the United Nations and the various international organisations concerned— with all the committed personnel and all the resources, technological and otherwise. The effect it would have on our country and the contribution the Irish people would make to it would be enormous. This would be a side effect but it would be very welcome at this time. The Government might consider this in the course of their consideration of an overall comprehensive programme.

Secondly, in line with that, there could be an international distribution centre here. People in the Shannon Estuary area know quite a lot about problems of development at home and abroad. If we were to see a development of the type being talked about in the Shannon Estuary, this could become the distribution centre for the Third World. We are half way between the American continent and Europe. Ireland could become known as a centre very much identified with the international drive to relieve these appalling problems. This could be done not only to the advantage of Ireland but to the advantage of the whole world because of the historical goodwill we enjoy in those countries.

If one looks at the groupings of the developing countries, either at UNCTAD or through those represented at the Lômé Convention, one sees emerging, as emerged after the last war, a new political strength and determination on the part of these developing countries. After the last war we saw the emergence of many international organisations to ensure a new order of peace and justice, the United Nations, the Council of Europe, the European Community. In a sense they all developed out of tragedy and desolation but not of the magnitude we are talking about in relation to these countries. These organisations have become, so to speak, the directors of world order at the moment.

It is very clear that the Fourth World are becoming aware of their political position, their political strength. They are making it quite clear—the lessons are there to be learned from the UNCTAD Conference in particular—they will not settle for half measures. They will use their political unity—which they had not previously learned to use—to good effect to bring pressure on the developed countries of the world who, for one reason or another, do not seem to respond immediately to the need these developing countries are promoting.

Looking back at the UNCTAD conference in Nairobi, in the first two weeks we were all waiting for something concrete to emerge but the first two weeks were really taken up by the delegations concerned making long statements of principle at plenary session. Perhaps that is inevitable. Perhaps politicians and statesmen have to talk in that fashion but for two weeks, in the face of really critical problems, all we got were formal statements as to the positions taken up by the various delegations so that it seemed to those of us there that there was an impatience, indeed a frustration, if not an antagonism, directed against those who did not seem to be prepared to get down to negotiating on the real issues before conference. It was not until the very last day that agreement was reached and by that time there was a real possibility the conference would break down on the fundamental question of negotiating for the establishment of the common fund.

In this connection I want to refer to our own position. Prior to the conference we did not seem to be by any means clear as to where we stood. I want to quote now a reply given to me by the Minister for Foreign Affairs on 12th May last. I asked the Minister:

if the Government will support in full the proposals of the Secretary General of UNCTAD for approval at the conference to be held in Nairobi, Kenya, particularly those proposals relating to trade and development and the establishment of a common fund; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

The Minister's reply to me was to the effect that the Government were "not in a position to support in full the far-reaching proposals which have been advanced by the Secretary General of UNCTAD". The most critical point from our point of view was the common fund and that was taken to indicate the Government were not in a position to support the proposals on the common fund suggested by the Secretary General.

I am glad to note that we were one of the 16 countries in group B which belatedly, but effectively, agreed to negotiate on the establishment of this common fund. Had our position before we went to the conference been clearer the evolution might have been very different. I am not saying our position would be all that significant, but it was vitally important that our position before we went to the conference should have been clear so that we would not have had to react to the pressures applied by the developing countries. Having to put the pressure at the last moment is not designed to encourage the goodwill of other countries. We should be in the van of initiatives. I say this not by way of criticism. It is easy to criticise on this side of the House.

I welcome the fact that the Government, even belatedly, were one of those 16 countries who did bring about that last minute agreement by changing their stance. It was late in the day and the outcome could have been very critical if that change had not come about. Some countries, notably the United States, Germany, Britain and, I think, Japan, expressed some qualification about this last minute agreement and I understand the United States Government has called a conference later this month of the major trading nations to discuss the major trading issues arising out of the conference. This seems to be at this remove a rearguard action on the part of the major economic powers—the United States, Britain, Germany and, I suppose, Canada and to a lesser extent Japan.

The intention is to discuss the major trading issues arising out of the UNCTAD Conference from the point of view of their effect on these countries' trading interests. The object apparently is to lessen the effect of the agreement eventually reached at Nairobi. I would be glad if that were not the case, but I am concerned that such a conference should have been promoted. I am concerned as to why only the major economic powers are taking part. Will the Parliamentary Secretary inform us as to what our Government's view is on this? As a member of the EEC are we not going to express a view when some of the other members—Germany, Britain and possibly France—will attend this conference which seems to be for the purpose of limiting the obligations that appeared to have been accepted at the Nairobi conference?

I am afraid I will have to disappoint the Deputy. The Deputy is using this opportunity to launch an extremely wide debate on the much larger subject of development aid generally.

The Parliamentary Secretary will recognise——

I recognise the usefulness of the debate, but the Deputy must not expect me to reply as I would to a general debate on the subject.

I appreciate that. I welcome the extra couple of hundred thousand being made available through this Food Aid Convention but neither the Parliamentary Secretary nor I are doing anything whatsoever really to get at this problem. I take the Parliamentary Secretary's point. He may not have anticipated that I would dwell on this and deal with it on such a broad basis —Deputy Collins agrees with me— but I can tell the Parliamentary Secretary that whenever a motion of this kind comes up for discussion here he now has due warning that I may take the opportunity of a broad ranging approach to it.

It was vitally important, though perhaps less immediately relevant, to note what has happened since the conference. I was appalled recently on a visit to the United States to find so many things being made issues in the run-up to the Presidential Election in the area of foreign policy, with intervention in Rhodesia thrown in just off the cuff by Governor Reagan, who apparently reached some response from the electorate, and all kinds of initiatives of that sort without any reference whatsoever as to what that great country's position should be in this whole area. If it is an issue at all it is only on the basis of its being looked upon as a political issue.

If the major economic and political powers of the west and the public are not reminded of just how serious this whole matter is, and if they stand back, then all of us, or certainly some of us, however puny our efforts, must try to make it an international issue because, if we do not, if we just look at the order of the world as it is at the moment and say there is a starving world and a developed world, a third, and a fourth, and there is us, and we think it will stay like that, then we are very wrong. If the developing countries do not see a real initiative from those of us more comfortably off, then we may be a lot less secure than we believe ourselves to be. Time may be running out for us in a way we do not recognise. Thinking only in terms of our own selfish security we should not just respond but we should promote. Thinking in terms of justice, we must act with the urgency I suggest. Neither at home nor abroad —this may sound idealistic—should it be a political issue particularly in the light of the world scene between the major powers of east and west. Where the west fails to make its impact on this problem then Russia or China, as the case may be, will get in. I do not want to see this happen because it would lead to further divisions and aggravate rather than solve the problem. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will give me some reassurance on the question of the level of our aid and our commitment.

I welcome the introduction of this convention as another small step in the right direction and I assure the Parliamentary Secretary that any major step that the Government can take here or in the Community or at United Nations level will be supported with absolute enthusiasm on this side of the House.

I wish to join with Deputy O'Kennedy in welcoming this motion. It is good to see the figure being raised this year to £600,000 from last year's £300,000. Not only that, but the stress is now being applied in the right direction when the emphasis will be on these countries becoming somewhat selfsufficient. We have a long way to go before this can be done but we must make a start. Meanwhile, it is essential to continue some of the interim and the immediate food aid programmes. The long term aim must be to make these countries self-sufficient and to build towards that. That will require personnel as well as finance.

This is one occasion when Deputies have an opportunity to discuss what we can do to help the underprivileged. Very often on various Estimates this aspect is not sufficiently stressed because it may be only a minor part of an Estimate. In the Estimate of the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries we see that the grant-in-aid to Gorta this year is £18,750 an increase of £3,750 on last year. Is this really sufficient? I realise that would probably be more pertinent to a Department of Agriculture and Fisheries Estimate; yet, all these things are relevant to the question of whether we are doing enough, whether we are playing a full role, the role the Irish people would like to play and which I feel they would like to see further developed, in helping the less fortunate people in the world.

With the general increase all round I find there has also been an increase in the grant-in-aid to Irish workers in developing countries. Last year it was £115,000 and this year it is £175,000. It is good to make an effort each year to offer temporary immediate relief by way of food and, to a lesser extent, by way of finance to people in distress but the long-term aim must be to put the expertise into the hands of the people themselves so that they will be able to tackle their own problems. We must try to spend more money in that direction. When one sees the amount of money coming from our own people when a distress call goes out from one of our national organisations, possibly a branch of an international body, for help in the face of disaster, one finds that the people give the lead, that they would like to see us do more. Here, we seem to be merely meeting our commitment. It is only skimming the surface and I believe we must produce a much better plan involving more finance and personnel in order to play our full part in relieving distress, hunger and deprivation in various parts of the world. It is not sufficient year after year to come up with a motion of this nature—again it is only one of short duration, for a further year——

Two years.

Yes, this year and next year. But again, it is a temporary provision. We must face the position that in various parts of the universe there is a great lack of expertise and education and know-how. We must play our part in this situation not only through programmes of food aid such as this but also through cash, to a lesser extent, and more through personnel and equipment to enable people to sow and reap their own harvests.

I am grateful to Deputy O'Kennedy and Deputy Murphy for their contributions. Their hearts are in the right place on this very important matter. I do not mind being pressed by Deputy O'Kennedy in regard to what the Government should be doing. It is only fair to say—I hope the Deputy will not take it amiss if I say it again—that it is not the case that this Government have been guilty of a long, lazy run-up to our present inadequate figure for overseas development aid which stands this year at about 0.14 per cent of GNP. It is not the case that the Government over long years and covering different Administrations have been lazy but it is the case that when this Government arrived we had to produce a vertical take-off in the field of development aid because there was no overseas development programme of a bilateral kind until 1973. The only contribution we made officially in the general field of development previously was the unavoidable and very minute sum attributable to our membership of the United Nations and, as from our membership of the EEC, a somewhat larger sum to be channelled through Community organs. We had no programme of our own despite the pressure of various bodies and politicians until 1973. I hope I may be forgiven for making that point; otherwise, it might be thought that we were sitting down on something in respect of which others had previously shown more energy. We are the first and only ones to show meaningful energy in this field.

I agree with Deputy O'Kennedy that time is running out. I made a speech on these lines myself not long ago. I think that national self-interest as well as charity and justice demand that we throw our weight behind any and every overseas development aid project where possible. I think Deputy O'Kennedy is absolutely right when he said—I said it the other day myself—that the world which is now poverty-stricken will not always be so and when that time comes they will remember their friends and those who turned their backs on them and in some cases battened on them and intensified their difficulties. If Christian charity and justice and other sentiments in which we were reared did not enforce on us generosity towards the developing world at least it should be enforced on us by our national prudence. Perhaps those now in the Chamber will not pay the penalty for neglect in this regard but, if we are neglectful, our children and our grandchildren will pay it.

Deputy O'Kennedy's very trenchant reminder was well timed because not enough people realise the comparative affluence of this country, despite how poor we tend to think ourselves, if we measure ourselves against the unthinkable misery in which almost half the world's population exist and the relative deprivation of a much larger number still. He is right to condemn the approach that we should look after ourselves first, that we are not properly developed and should wait until we are before doing anything about those who are much poorer. This country is backward or poor only if you compare it with a very small number of other societies most of them concentrated among the vigorous peoples of northern Europe. We are behind our neighbours in the EEC, especially those at the northern end of it and a few other countries with similar economies and social structures, but compared with the enormous majority of mankind we are extremely well-off. We are pampered and we luxuriate I suppose in surpluses which to them are, and will be impossible not merely for the next few years but for generations to come. The oftener that is said the better and I am glad Deputy O'Kennedy said it so trenchantly.

I do not entirely agree with him that maladministration is no excuse for going easy on aid programmes. It depends on the kind of maladministration. A country whose administration is so incompetent that it cannot prevent rats or pigeons from consuming grain in a store or being pilfered from railway wagons ought not to be penalised. The developed world ought to try to help them in spite of that incompetence.

There are other forms of maladministration which must impose a different approach. One of these fell into my own in-tray a few months ago when it was proposed by the interdepartmental committee to send, not a very large sum I suppose, but a helpful sum of money to provide absolutely rock-bottom facilities for a very stricken area which the House will not expect me to identify. Very shortly before that I read a report in which it was said on what appeared to be good authority by someone who had recently been there that a very large proportion of foreign aid was not pilfered or maladministered but converted into cash and used to buy armaments in order to exterminate the very people for whom the aid was intended. I had to ask myself whether, if I let this go ahead and somebody on the opposite benches were to ask about it, I could defend it. I felt I could not defend that, and so that provision was not made. I think I was right in taking that view. On reflection I do not think Deputy O'Kennedy would take another view.

I do not even need to reflect to take the view. We are at cross-purposes of course.

Mere incompetence or foolishness ought not to be chalked up against the backward and poverty-stricken people in the administration of aid. We have tried to tailor the Irish programme, not only to our own very modest resources but to the kind of job with which we have been traditionally identified—jobs of a humanitarian kind, not of course officially but through religious orders, missionaries, doctors, teachers and so forth, and also to our own peculiar experience over the years since independence. I did not expect, as I told the House a moment ago, to have to debate the question of development aid. I will give two or three examples of the kind of thing we do which we feel is appropriate to us.

We hope, for example, to support a programme of training for hotel managers, in collaboration of course with Bord Fáilte, from a very small poor country, Lesotho, which is entirely surrounded by the Union of South Africa, an appropriate thing for us because we had to build a tourist industry almost from scratch, and appropriate for them too because they have very little else there except touristic possibilities. The question arose of subsidising the development of a sample quantity of an improved strain of drug to fight leprosy and we were able to find the money to produce a sample quantity for testing of this new drug strain. What is more, we were able to have that done by the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards. Their skills extended to producing a useful test quantity of this drug.

The third example is that of administration, which Deputy O'Kennedy mentioned. It is true that administration is something we ought not to have to apologise for. Our administration is characterised by integrity and a sense of public duty, and of course we have not overlooked that in the aid programme. The Institute of Public Administration participates in several aid projects. One which I remember was a project for training hospital administrators from Zambia. I presented certificates or something of that kind to people who completed that course up to a year ago.

I am suddenly reminded of another one which the House might like to know about. The Department were associated with SFADCo in running an extremely appropriate course for the setting up and running of customs-free zones in airports. In that course I met 25 or 30 participants from every corner of the globe. There were some from the poorer countries of Central America as well as from Asia and Africa. Therefore our programme is modest in scale but its spread is an interesting one and it tends to correspond with the skills and experiences which we ourselves have developed and things that we are good at.

Above all I might claim a negative value for our programme in that it is not linked to any special benefit for ourselves. It is true that money spent on having hospital administrators here is money which to some extent comes back into the Irish economy. It would be foolish to deny that. It is also true that the aid-recipient countries tend to complain about aid being tied to a method which ensures that the donor country is going to get something out of it as well. We are trying to get away from that, but at the same time where a programme can be usefully and appropriately carried out here we do not fail to do it that way. However, we stop far short of what is alleged against some developed countries in the administration of their programmes, namely, that they channel their aid to countries with which they were formerly in colonial days politically associated and are still culturally associated. In other words, they are conducting a sort of culture politique via their overseas development aid programme. We do not do that, and could not if we wished to. We do not leave ourselves open to any such charge, nor do we try to. It would be an absurdity if we did build up any sphere of political influence through the administration of our programme, so we are free at least of these reproaches.

The targets which Deputy O'Kennedy spoke rather sharply about, he has perhaps misunderstood. I would have liked notice of his intention to raise this matter so as to put the matter in an extremely exact form. My impression is that he and the sources he quotes are wrong in attributing to the Government or the Minister the precise figure of .35 per cent by 1979. What the Minister said—I am subject to correction on this; I would like an opportunity to be certain—was to the effect that, taking one year with another, he hoped to build up our bilateral aid programme by .05 per cent of GNP. In fact the increases which have been made are quite striking. To give a simple example of what has happened in the last year, in 1975 our total overseas development aid paid for directly by the State was £3 million, which was almost but not quite .1 per cent of GNP. In 1976 we have authority to spend and expect to spend £5.7 million, which is almost twice as much, and represents .14 per cent of GNP.

That is a substantial increase by any standard, I am sure the Deputy would agree. Of course I recognise that we are very far away from the optimum target. We are at only the 20 per cent point of the .7 per cent of GNP which is a kind of internationally accepted target. However, as the Deputy honestly and fairly said, very few countries have reached that target and we are in roughly the same bracket as far as concerns GNP devoted to development aid as several countries which are more prosperous and more developed than ourselves, notably Austria, Finland and Italy. One of them is actually below our level. The other two are only very marginally above it. Therefore, while I do not recommend complacency to the House, we have not too much to apologise for either, considering our pretty late start.

I do not want to argue this point, but I think there is sufficient documentation which would seem to indicate that the Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary gave everyone to understand that our commitment would be .35 per cent.

I do not wish to argue this with the Deputy without seeing what exactly he is quoting from and without have a look also at what I have previously said myself, but if the Deputy wishes to ask a question I will try to clarify the matter.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary saying now that the target is .25 per cent?

No, I certainly never said that. The figure of .25 per cent is a completely new one on me. I do not recall that having been mentioned at any stage in connection with overseas development aid. It is true I have a a very bad memory particularly for details of that kind, but I certainly do not recall that figure. Taking one year over another we have promised to increase development aid, not necessarily with clockwork regularity every year but, taking one year with another, over a short period of years, by steps representing .05 per cent of GNP each year.

I trust I will not be expected to go into all of the interesting matters Deputy O'Kennedy mentioned. Perhaps I would be allowed to mention before finishing his reference to the Association for Personal Services Overseas. I was glad he made the reference he did to that agency. It does excellent work and contains some extraordinarily devoted people, many of whom are extremely successful, busy and render important public service in many other ways but still find the time, energy and will to devote themselves to this matter whenever they can. It has done excellent work. In recognition of that the State's allocation of money to that agency in 1976 was substantially increased over 1975.

I am sorry if I am disappointing the Deputy by not dealing with any of the other individual points he mentioned. I hope we may have an opportunity when the pressure of work is less severe, and the pressure on our time, to have another debate on development aid. In general I welcome greatly his commitent to it. I recognise it as completely genuine and thank him for the way in which he has received this motion.

Question put and agreed to.
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