asked the Minister for Finance if, in view of allegations that continental granite is, in fact, being used in the construction of the Central Bank, Dublin, he has had any further investigations carried out since his reply of 2nd June, 1976.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Granite Usage.
5.
In reply to a question on 2nd June, I stated that I was informed that all of the granite being used in the construction of the new Central Bank building was Irish. That information was furnished by the Central Bank on foot of information supplied by the bank's architects. The Central Bank has since informed me that they have now learned that, while contracts for the supply of 9,585 square metres of Irish granite for use on the exterior of the complex, including the plaza, were placed with Irish suppliers, 76 square metres of non-Irish granite were supplied by a contractor to replace breakages, without the knowledge or approval of the bank or its architects. The cost of replacement of the breakages falls to be met by the contractor concerned and not the Central Bank. The Central Bank and I regret that on the basis of information then available to the bank and me the reply of 2nd June last was not entirely accurate.
Even before I lodged the Question I realised that damage had been done and I accept what the Minister has said. However, when people look at the new building they will be able to say that it contains continental granite. Will the Minister assure me that in the landscaping of the building every slab will be of native granite?
As the Deputy is aware, it is my desire and that of the Central Bank that as much Irish materials as possible will be included in the new building, which will serve not only a functional purpose but which should also be an edifice in which Irish people can take pride in relation both to the skills of the designers and architects and in relation to the materials used. As I have said, 9,585 square metres of Irish granite was supplied from Irish sources, and it is only in relation to breakages outside the main contract that there was a slippage and in respect of which, unknown to the architects and the bank, a small quantity of foreign granite was supplied. I assure the House and the country that it is my desire and that of the Central Bank that the Central Bank of Ireland will be, to all intents and purposes, as complete an Irish edifice as it is possible to erect.
While I accept that the Minister accepts that no blame can attach to the architects in that the specifications stipulated Irish granite only, nevertheless, will the Minister assure me that native granite only will be used in the landscaping of the building? Would the Minister care to put a figure on the amount of foreign granite used?
It would be undesirable to put a cash figure on any materials used, particularly those supplied as a consequence of the invitation of tenders. It is the intention of the Central Bank that Irish materials only will be used in relation to the plaza and the external parts of the building.
Can the Minister say whether any Wicklow granite was used, and if so from which areas it came?
As far as I am aware, and I have no reason to doubt the information, the Irish granite supplies came entirely from Ballyknockan, Valleymount and Ballybrew, Enniskerry. The granite from such quarters cannot be improved on in any part of the world. Also, in relation to the concrete part of the building, which is being faced with granite, the facing work is being done in County Wicklow, so that it is substantially a County Wicklow job.
The Minister said that the breakages and replacement slabs for this were a separate contract. Surely he has the cost to the State of foreign granite in front of him? Will he give the House that figure?
The Deputy is repeating himself.
I am afraid I must.
It is not in order.
It is.
Repetition is not in order.
I would point out that the replacement of broken slabs arose outside the main contract between the Central Bank and the suppliers of granite. We are informed that the reason why non-Irish granite was involved was because it could be made available more speedily from stock.
Nonsense.
Would the Deputy have the courtesy to listen to the explanation given to me? I am not saying whether it is true or not. The Minister for Finance has no responsibility as such in respect of contracts placed between an independent entity, like the Central Bank, and its contractors. But out of courtesy to the House, and because the public interest was involved, I have at all times been willing to answer questions in relation to such matters and will always do so. I should think that common courtesy would require that when information is given to me I be given the opportunity of conveying that information to the House.
I want——
I am calling the next question.
The information I wanted to give the House, and which the Deputy has not allowed, is this: the Central Bank have been informed that the reason why non-Irish granite was supplied was because, in the particular circumstances in which the breakage arose and had to be replaced, it could be made available instantly out of stock, whereas Irish stone would have had to be cut. I am not saying if that is true because I do not know. All I know is that I am giving the facts as they have been reported to me.
On a point of information, how can I obtain the figures from the Minister if he refuses to answer in this House?
I have already said that it has been long established practice, in respect of which there should be no breach in the public interest, that where materials are obtained by the State direct, or by a State agency, the cost of those materials should not be disclosed if such disclosure should lead to a situation in which persons competing with one another for public tenders would be in a position to obtain information which could be used——
The tender from Irish Granite——
Order, Deputy Murphy.
The Minister knows——
Deputy Murphy is being disorderly. A final supplementary question from Deputy MacSharry.
Could the Minister give a final assurance that the furniture for the Central Bank will be Irish made?
That is a separate matter.
This is a matter by law for the Central Bank. They are anxious that all Irish materials be included in their building and its contents. This is their ambition and I am satisfied it will be substantially fulfilled.
Will the Minister assure us of this?
Yes, and the Central Bank are fully aware of my desire in this matter.