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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 19 Feb 1981

Vol. 326 No. 12

Financial Resolutions, 1981. - Financial Resolution No. 9: General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law, relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
—(The Taoiseach).

Before the adjournment I was dealing with the Government proposal for 100 per cent tax allowance for expenditure on rented housing accommodation and multi-storey car parks. I indicated my total opposition to this proposal because its effect would be that people of substantial means would be free of tax for ten to 12 years. It seems entirely wrong that we should allow people, who have already accumulated sufficient of the world's wealth over and above their current needs, to avoid any taxation for ten to 12 years, provided they put that accumulated wealth into a particular type of investment. There are many other ways in which investment can be encouraged. As a society, we have been wrong to leave the law in such a way that building housing accommodation to rent has been discouraged. The way to correct that is to amend the landlord and tenant law to remove disincentives. It is not to give a near total tax exemption to people with substantial wealth who invest it for a particular purpose. No matter what that purpose might be, any exemption will develop a new corps of protected people, a new elite, who can amass even greater wealth while the worker is obliged, week in and week out, to surrender a percentage of his pay package before he brings home the balance to support his wife and children.

Fianna Fáil propose in accordance with their policy of making the rich richer and the poor poorer allowing people of substantial wealth to become even wealthier by a tax exemption for ten to 12 years. They did it for those engaged in mining by the outrageous policy of 20 years tax exemption in respect of profit from minig when our natural resources were being extracted and exported. They allowed the 20 years exemption so that in most cases the mines would have expired before the end of the period of exemption. We were abused for curing that.

We also introduced a capital gains tax and a Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis voted against it. We introduced it because we said it was wrong that people with substantial wealth should by investing that wealth in assets which could earn a capital gain, avoid paying tax on such gains. We were vilified for changing the law. We did it and I am glad that Fianna Fáil did not have the temerity to interfere with that particular tax.

This new privilege which Fianna Fáil will confer on people of substantial wealth who build housing accommodation of a certain type and who build multi-storey car parks runs against the whole principle of equity in taxation. Have the Government no feeling for the sense of indignation of the ordinary taxpayers about how inequitable the tax code is? Since they got into power they abolished wealth tax and now they are proposing a new benefit for the wealthy in this particular tax exemption for ten to 12 years. How can they expect people to be reasonable in their demands when that Government's primary concern seems to be people of substantial means and their last interest appears to be the people with no means of avoiding the crushing burden of income tax?

One of our greatest difficulties is in industrial relations and in cooling the expectation people have for increases in remuneration which are not related to increases in productivity. Most of the pressure for pay increases comes from an understandable effort by people to compensate themselves for increases in living costs which have already arisen. A very large share of increases in costs has been caused by the Government's grossly inflationary programme. The Government have acknowledged the need for moderation in income expectations. The Taoiseach went to the mountain of Montrose in January 1980 to preach on T.V. moderation in incomes. We have similar exhortations to the plebs delivered by Ministers when they are the principal guests at sumptuous dinners. They use those occasions in order to preach to their underlings that they ought to accept moderation. But when the Government have an opportunity by their own actions to cool the pay scene, they do the reverse.

This budget will add at least 3½ per cent to living costs with the result that the Government are ensuring confrontation between employers and trade unions later this year. As a result of the Government's deliberate policy, the cost of living between last May and February of this year will rise by more than 10 per cent. Do the Government forget what they pushed into the national understanding? I must admit that the title "understanding" almost sticks in my throat. If ever there was a misnomer it is that. Both the first and second so called "understandings" are the greatest misunderstanding of the economic needs of the country. There is provision in the understanding Mark II that if the cost of living rises beyond 10 per cent between May last year and February this year there must be a related increase in pay; or at least talks about it, which is the same thing. The Government have insured that this further wage increase must now be given. We can now anticipate that, if we have not gone to the country before then, the Government will be pushing for yet another reckless settlement of wage demands within a matter of three or four months. That will all be in an effort to bide time between now and the next general election.

There are those who like to pretend that the debasement of the IR£ against sterling is attributable solely to North Sea oil. That is an assumption I want to demolish. Today one must pay IR£1.35 in order to buy £1 sterling. We have seen a devaluation of the IR£ in less than two years by 27 per cent. The IR£ is struggling within the European Monetary System. It should be appreciated that whatever position it is maintaining within that system is due in part to the protective mechanism of that system which supports the IR£ when it gets into trouble. It must also be remembered that the IR£ today is being protected by most sophisticated and detailed controls on currency movements. There is no other European currency controlled as rigidly as the IR£. The other currencies within the EMS are floating freely but, uniquely, because we sought and were given permission to do so, the IR£ is controlled by and subject to most detailed and onerous supervision by the Central Bank. Were it not for those controls which are artificially holding the value of the IR£ within the EMS I believe we would now be in the situation where our pound would be worth half the value of the British pound. In other words, one would have to pay IR£2 in order to purchase £1 sterling.

Unless this nation comes to its economic senses, it is likely that our European partners will say enough is enough; we have supported you for too long at an artificially high rate within the EMS. We are not prepared to do this any longer and you must therefore devalue the Irish pound. If our pound was to be devalued in accordance with our economic behaviour its value would be about half that of the British pound. Currency devaluations arise directly in relation to a country's economic performance. When one looks at the appalling misbehaviour of our economic managers that is to say our Government, one can see that the present value of the Irish pound would not be warranted were market forces operating.

Money is more than a medium of exchange. It is more than a symbol to ease the purchase of goods and services. Money is a store of value. It cannot be said that the Irish pound is a good store of value when everything that could debase the currency is running at full steam at present.

Government borrowing will, I believe this year reach well in excess of 16 per cent although the Minister said it will reach only 13 per cent. All independent commentators say it will be 16 per cent as long as there is no slippage. If we get slippage in expenditure on the scale of the last two years Government borrowing this year will amount to 20 per cent of GNP or more than five times the borrowing rate of any other European country. When one gets to a 20 per cent borrowing rate one is really scraping the bottom of the financial barrel to such an extent that the international financial world will most certainly question Ireland's credit rating. In 1979 the Government overshot their own borrowing targets by £230 million. Last year they overshot their borrowing target by £321 million. In this year when many expenditures in the Estimates have been savagely and unrealistically cut, when there are pressures building up for greater wage increases to compensate for inflation that has occurred or is anticipated I consider it inevitable that before the end of the year their overshoot of their own targets will be between £400 million and £500 million. Those words can be quoted against me if I am wrong but if those calculations are right and if the Government do not achieve their target of getting £200 million from the private sector towards their capital programme we will certainly achieve a borrowing in excess of 20 per cent of GNP. That means that Ireland's currency will be further debased in the international financial markets.

When our rate of inflation this year is likely to be at least as much as it was in 1980, 18½ to 20 per cent, our currency will be very shaky internationally. With our balance of trade the worst in Europe — it is temporarily improving for the wrong reason, because we are suffering from a depression — it is likely to go to a totally unacceptable level when the depression bottoms out and then our currency will be in real trouble.

The ultimate value of any currency is that which world market forces fix. It is not what we think our pound is worth; it is other people's evaluation of our pound which decides whether people are prepared to accept Irish pounds for the goods and services they have to sell to us. The truth is that the IR£ is in dire trouble. Our European partners are impatient about the mismanagement of the Irish economy by our Government. I know they are sorely disappointed that in the 1981 budget the Government failed to take any corrective steps towards an improvement of the economy.

I know any corrective steps will not be easy or popular. I know people are also cynical about politicians and do not expect displays of courage from them. But there are those, thank God, still left in Irish politics who have as strong a commitment today as the day they entered politics to do the right thing for the country. The Government have a massive majority. They can do anything they wish because they have the political muscle in the Dáil to do so. They have culpably failed to take any corrective measure for the Irish economy and Irish society. That leads me to believe that the country is facing a serious catastrophe. Better than running to the country now would be for the Government to use the 16 months left in this Dáil to take the measures they know are necessary to put the country on a right footing. If they fail to do that they will not have any right to seek another mandate from the Irish people because they would be running away from their responsibility, a responsibility which, I say with all modesty, they are in a better position to discharge having a much greater majority than any Government which may be elected in the next general election. Of course it is quite possible that the frustrated and angry citizens, disappointed that the promises made by the Government have not been honoured, worried that the situation now is at a catastrophic level, may decide to give our side of the House a considerable majority. I would hope that if we were to be in power, with or without a massive majority, we would act with a greater sense of responsibility than the most irresponsible Government we have over there.

There have been occasions in the past when no attention was given to economic matters and when political or emotive interests were regarded as being more important than the economic facts of life. That day has thankfully gone. But there are many who consider themselves responsible economically if they mumble economic jargon. It is possible that some members of the Government or some individuals in public life think they are being serious and wise when they use a few economic terms but economic responsibility requires a lot more than that. It requires right decisions, even if they are unpopular.

I decided to avoid the detailed arithmetic of the budget because a number of other contributors dealt with that. However, there is one point which is symptomatic of the gross inaccuracies in the figures underlying the budget, so inaccurate that nobody, even an adherent of Fianna Fáil could take seriously the figures put before the House. The figures for post office arrears are, to say the least, dubious. Last year we were told with great solemnity by the then Minister for Finance, Mr. O'Kennedy, that the arrears due to the Department of Posts and Telegraphs were £100 million. His successor told us only £33 million had been collected. On the Government's own figures there are £67 million outstanding from last year. Yet we are told that as of now the amount outstanding is £41 million. Presumably some arrears arose during 1980 so the figure of £41 million contains arrears that arose in that year. I leave that aside for the moment even though it is a factor that must be taken into account. If there was £67 million outstanding on 31 December 1980 how is it that on 1 January 1981 it was reduced to £41 million? Where has the other £26 million gone? Has it simply been written off and what has happened in respect of arrears due in 1980? Taking just one figure out of the budget one finds an inaccuracy of between £30 and £40 million.

The budget arithmetic this year is also somewhat misleading in that it takes into account £66 million corporation tax which, as I pointed out, will probably not be collected anyway because the possibility of corporations or companies in 1981 maintaining a level of profits similar to that of earlier years is non-existent and the Government know that. Even if there was not a reluctance on the part of the companies to pay the tax, the reality is that they are not in a position to earn sufficient to yield an additional tax of £66 million in 1981. Assuming that it is collected it shows how much greater the imbalance will be in the Exchequer figures for 1981, because advancing the payment date is a once off operation.

I say with considerable pain and regret that Irish public life is being debased by the standards set by the Government and that the standards of objectivity and accuracy for which the Department of Finance have always been known are now thrown into doubt not by any action, decision or advice of permanent civil servants in that Department but as a result of outlandish and irresponsible interpretations made by the Government on foot of the advice given to them.

I am saddened that such has happened. There is an urgent need to change the Government so that once again there will be in office political heads of Departments who will have sufficient responsibility to tell the people only the truth no matter how awkward or embarrassing the figures may be. I contrast the situation now with what it was in 1977. In 1977 nobody questioned the budget figures. No independent commentators were saying that the Government were not moving in the right direction. It was accepted that we were reducing Government borrowing and that our objectives over a three year period to cut out the current deficit was the correct policy. It was accepted that the Government finances were in good order. Not even our political opponents challenged that for a moment. The only criticism they had to offer was that we were too prudent, too wise, too careful and were not spending enough. When we were following that prudent policy employment was increasing, the cost of living was coming down, Government borrowing was falling, interest rates were falling, more houses were being built, there was an atmosphere of confidence and investment was rising all the time so that the highest peak of investment was achieved in 1977. Never was a Government handed over a country with all the economic and social indicators pointing in the right direction. Now all the indicators are pointing in the wrong direction. It cannot be said that this is solely attributable to world affairs. The malignant world forces in 1981 are less than they were in 1974-76 when we were in office. Notwithstanding a totally different environment the present Government have an abysmal record of failure.

The situation in relation to the Irish timber industry is symptomatic of the Government's performance. We have the ludricous situation where Ireland is exporting forestry thinnings to the tune of 25,000 tons a year selling at £1 per ton. If we were to do no more than burn timber we should be burning Irish timber instead of exporting it at £1 per ton. We import coal and slack at £80 a ton. We re-export slack at £14 a ton instead of using it ourselves. By using slack on fires we could save on coal. We are selling off timber at £1 a ton instead of devising ways of ensuring the distribution of forestry thinnings as fuel, if for no productive purpose. It seems to be totally crazy economics. The reason we are doing it is because the Government shoved up manufacturing costs and fuel costs used in industry to such a level that three of the four wood processing companies had to close down at a time when there is a greater need than ever for increasing the housing stock. Our young population is on the increase to such a level that the housing output will have to reach 40,000 houses a year if young people are to be housed as soon as they want to marry. In that situation it is incredible that we should have permitted manufacturing costs to become so out of line with the rest of the world that three of our wood processing mills with ample supplies of Irish timber had to close down. They closed down as a direct consequence of the Government's inflationary policies which have driven so many industries into liquidation and bankruptcy. We seem to have lost our economic sanity. We truly do not understand the future social needs of this country.

Therefore it seems to me that the sooner this Government use the majority they have to rule properly, the better. But if they are not prepared to use that majority — and I am sorry to see that many commentators seem to accept that because there will be an election within the next 16 months the Government cannot act responsibly — that is a very worrying position indeed, that people think that a Government with a substantial and safe majority cannot be expected to rule properly. What has happened to this country that democracy has become so irresponsible that Governments are not expected to do the right thing because they have to face the electorate? It means this, it seems to me, that the Government know they have misled the people and they hope the people are ignorant of their mistakes. Collective action if taken now would expose their failure. I would not like myself to be in a Government which was elected or sustained by popular ignorance. But the Government seem to want to keep the people ignorant of the true facts. Admittedly, there have been a few feeble attempts to discuss facts, but then the Government have acted in a manner totally contrary to the advice they had given previously.

The national misunderstanding of 1981 is perhaps a classical monument to the Government's duplicity because the Government forced that unsound misunderstanding on the employers of the country, who knew the facts and who told the Government they were not in a position to pay its terms. The Taoiseach himself personally intervened to force that misunderstanding on employers, knowing that the outcome would be less employment and a higher inflation. The Government are leading the country to ruin as they try to conceal reality from the people.

Is maith liom an deis seo a bheith agam labhairt faoi na gcúramaí a bhaineas liomsa agus b'fhéidir sula mbeas deire ráite agam go ndéanfaidh mé iarracht an aineolachas a deireann an Teachta Ó Riain agus atá i measc an phobail a dhíbirt. Tá súil agam go mbeidh níos mó eolais acu nuair a bhéas mé críochnaithe ná mar atá anois.

Le cúnamh Dé.

Beidh mé ag rá leo agus mé ag cur síos ar chúrsaí aos óg na tíre seo nuair a bhí an Teachta Ó Riain san Rialtas mar Aire Airgeadais, go raibh méidín beag airgid ar fáil don duine a bhí san oifig a bhfuil sé dá h-onóir agam bheith ann anois. De bhrí nach raibh aon airgead gur fiú trácht air ag an Teachta Bruton, ní raibh sé in ann aon obair a dhéanamh. Under the Government in which Deputy R. Ryan was Minister for Finance, that Minister's inability to provide even meagre money for my predecessor Deputy John Bruton, rendered him redundant in the office and required of the Government of the day that they transfer him to the Department of Industry and Commerce where, at the time, rising prices, amongst other things, kept him fully occupied.

It was not my intention to refer at all to these matters. It was my intention to place on record the Fianna Fáil Government approach to youth and sport, that vital aspect of education and, at the end, I would have obliged the people of Ireland, in the fashion that Deputy Ryan would have wished, with a statement which would dispel their ignorance of the facts.

As Deputy Collins has now presented himself it affords me the opportunity, again in deference to the responsibilities which the Fine Gael Party say attach to our youth, to remind him that, in the document which he prepared for his party, which presumably is the document they will give to the nation, there are statements and I might be permitted now to quote:

The large number of young people in the country represents one of the nation's greatest assets.

That is a quotation from Deputy Collins's paper on behalf of the Fine Gael Party. Indeed he says in his foreword:

We are very conscious that our main concern is the growth and development of each of our young people.

Deputy Collins is here now. I would ask him why his paper omits any reference whatsoever to the fact that young people, when they are out of school, out of college, out of university, have time available to them which requires the educational system to provide programmes for them. There is no acceptance of that in that Fine Gael Party document. There is not one reference to the fact that we have in this country a youth service second to none which must be funded, on whom there is the obligation and the responsibility to look after our young children in the line of informal education so important today. Here I am sure that Deputy Collins, now that I have reminded him, will accept his omission, will accept the omission on the part of his party in assuming that education ends when the students leaves the classroom. Deputy Collins may hem and haw but he cannot deny the product of his own mind and hand. There is no such reference in the Fine Gael policy document entitled "Education in the 80s" and I am having that fact recorded in the House. I am sure Deputy Collins will endeavour, now that I have drawn his attention to it, to trump up something before the election. But I will continue to remind the people of Ireland——

No, we have a separate spokeswoman on youth affairs and I am sure that in her own time she will produce an excellent youth policy, which will show more concern than the present Government have shown in relation to youth.

Deputy Collins must not interrupt, please.

Why did not the present Government appoint a Minister of State for youth? There is plenty of work to be done in education——

Deputy Collins will have an opportunity of replying. The Minister without interruption.

Is Deputy Collins accepting——

The Minister is fiddling the figures.

They have not one reference to the fact——

The Minister has been fiddling the figures.

——that young people have available to them an amount of time which they must gainfully employ. The Deputy has not one reference to the fact that they must have recreational facilities available to them, not one reference to the fact that any worthwhile government must have a financial investment in youth so that they can spend their spare time gainfully. I have reminded the Deputy——

They are supposed to have school transport.

I have reminded Deputy Collins conscience doth make a coward of him. I am sure conscience will make a coward of Deputy Ryan who, as Minister for Finance, gave so little to my predecessor, Deputy John Bruton, that he had nothing to do. He had to undo the heritage given to him by his predecessors. Deputy Bruton was transferred to the Department of Industry and Commerce where, as I have said earlier, he had a wholetime job keeping up with the increases occurring in prices at that time.

No increases now.

The area of my responsibility within the Department of Education includes the promotion of youth services——

——school transport.

——the encouragement of sport, the provision of recreational facilities and the initiation of youth employment schemes. It is true to say that I am privileged to have the task of helping, nurturing and sustaining the young people of this country through their adolescence, into the flowering of their adulthood, by providing for them facilities for active and healthy enjoyment of their free and leisure time and the opportunity of gainful employment through work experience.

I am grateful to the Government for allocating such a rewarding assignment to me and more especially for providing the resources necessary for making progress in this vital area. The Estimates in my Department for 1981 contained a provision for £1.4 million to meet the current general expenses of youth and sport organisations during this year. On the youth side my area of responsibility covers the out-of-school education of young people in their free time. It is a vital area as it has as its primary purpose the facilitation of the personal, social, cultural and spiritual development of young people in a voluntary and informal setting. This is generally the area of operation covered by such terms as youth services which are used to describe the means and methods adopted by society to meet the development needs of young people in their uncommitted time. There is no need for me to stress to this House or to the country the vital importance of these services as an element of our education services. The fact that other countries had commenced on the implementation of the youth services at an earlier date and to a greater degree than Ireland afforded us the privilege and the benefit of learning from their experience. Naturally this enlightenment has served to influence the guidelines which the Government have adopted as a basis for the State's involvement in youth work services. It is worth referring to some of them, however briefly.

In the first place we accept that youth services have to be formally based in the community. If youth services are socially unsupported or spiritually isolated they cannot succeed. Second, we have knowledge that in society there is a wide diversity of attitudes of youth and consequently there should be an equally wide range in programmes and structures for youth. Surely we recognise that in a society rapidly undergoing enormous change and at a time when traditionally accepted values and concepts are in some cases unfortunately becoming very difficult to maintain, the only realistic approach to the development of youth work services is one that allows for the utmost flexibility and freedom of approach to young people with the minimum of constraints, mindful of course that there are certain values and principles which can never be jettisoned.

I suppose it is appropriate here that when speaking about the youth of Ireland I should, on behalf of all our youth organisations and our sporting organisations, record in this House our sympathy for the parents, friends and relations of those young people who were called away so suddenly and our assurance to the parents that we will keep them in our prayerful thoughts.

One of the most fundamental developments in recent times is the increasing capacity of our communities to identify their own needs and to take action towards meeting them. This development is reflected in the formulation and implementation of the Government's policy on youth. In voluntary youth organisations we have a practical expression of community self-help and development. We are indeed fortunate that Irish youth work is characterised by being predominantly voluntary in nature. The Government value greatly this characteristic and wishes to see voluntarism maintained and every development which involves people in taking on an appropriate degree of responsibility for various aspects of their community life and in diminishing an unhealthy dependency on bureaucratic institutions is to be encouraged.

Since taking up office in July 1977 I have diligently pursued a policy of action in relation to the development of youth work and youth work services. As a first step I publicly acknowledge youth work as an integral part of the education system and throughout the Government's present term of office we have followed a policy of flexibility and sensitivity in our approach to young people and youth work. We recognise that our youth are the nation's single most important asset and our chief national resource. Here again I repeat that as far as I am concerned — and I say this not as a politician but as an educationist — education today is not solely connected with the classroom. We accept that if education is about life, education must surely have the same relevance and the same appropriateness to the uncommitted time of our students as it does to that time when we oblige them to apply themselves to the pursuit of academic matters. We all realise that with the increasing development in technology, day by day and week by week man's energies are being rendered unnecessary. His working day is being reduced and therefore, apart from other considerations, the obligation is greater than ever it was that true education must apply to our providing him with the opportunity for self-development, for enjoyment and satisfaction in the nonworking, non-professional, non-committed time of his day.

When speaking on youth services or matters connected with sport I do not like to be accused of making either a political matter. But when the Opposition attempt to point the finger at my Government I could not live with my conscience if I did not take issue with them because I know that in this area as in other areas my Government have a record which is second to none, one which puts to shame the efforts of the last Government to cater in any way for our youth and our youth services. In 1977 I inherited from my predecessor a situation fraught with despair and distrust of Government on the part of youth organisations. I am not saying that. It is on record. Anybody who is so disposed can look at the bulletins or the publications of that time and see that despair reached out from youth organisations as far as their hopes of having their great work complemented by Government was concerned. Nevertheless I set about the task — and I am not being boastful when I say that — and within a year, and again the records will show, faith and confidence were being restored and the morale and hope of youth organisations were on the road to recovery. The measure of the commitment of the Government to this task is seen in the increased assistance by way of direct grants to youth organisations. Here are the facts that Deputy Ryan has asked me to present so that the people of Ireland should not be ignorant. Here is my response to his invitation to me. In 1977, when he was Minister for Finance, he made available for the youth services of this country a total sum of £261,000. These are not figures which I take from the top of my head. These are recorded figures with which Deputy Ryan is as familiar as I. The figure in 1977 for youth organisations was £261,000; our figure in 1980 was £581,000. This year there will be a further increase.

While I was happy to be able to provide worthwhile increases to youth organisations I was also anxious to copperfasten the State's continued commitment to honouring those obligations and duties to support a voluntary youth service. I was determined that the quality and effectiveness of the youth service would not suffer from lack of support, moral or material, from the State especially in the event of there being a change of Government. Accordingly, and as an essential step in validating youth work as an integral part of the educational process, I gave youth organisations a guarantee to support agreed levels of care staff and programmes on an ongoing basis, thus offering them the same type of security as any school or recognised educational establishment would enjoy. This guarantee has been implemented through a revised system of grant-aiding youth organisations which is being developed in consultation with these organisations. This initiative is providing youth organisations with security and confidence which they have not hitherto enjoyed and is in line with the Government's recognition of youth work as an educational process.

I regret that the Fine Gael Party do not attach the same importance to youth work as my Government and I do, but we are consoled, looking at the present political situation in this country, that the future of youth and of youth services is safe, that, when the next election will have taken place, we can look forward to a Government who will continue this work on behalf of our youth.

Hear, hear. They will not be left on the unemployment list.

In grant-aiding youth organisations the Department are promoting volunteerism and community development. However, it is perhaps something of a paradox that the volunteer needs the support of full-time workers to provide essential training and administrative back-up to develop and co-ordinate services. It is a major function of the Department's grant system to assist voluntary organisations to employ full-time staff. Last year under the revised system the salaries of some 51 full-time staff were supported by my Department. Furthermore, 54 additional full-time workers were employed by the organisations under my Department's development officers scheme. Together these figures represent an enormous improvement on the situation that existed just over three and a half years ago when none of these organisations could have been sure that they would get £1 from the Government in office — the Coalition Government with Deputy R. Ryan as Minister for Finance.

I should also mention that under the development officers scheme I made grants available for the employment of a further 46 full-time officers by various voluntary organisations and covering such areas as sport, community development and social services, all areas which apparently other political parties regard as being unnecessary in the life of our people. I realise that increased grants and resources for the employment of full-time workers would not in themselves guarantee that the standard and appeal of youth work would be maintained or improved. Here I saw that there was a priority need for the training of full-time and voluntary youth workers. Accordingly, since 1979 the Department are funding an in-service training scheme for full-time youth workers. Arrangements for the establishment of an educational co-operative which will take over the administration of the training scheme are at an advanced stage. These are facts, not fiction; achievement, not promises.

Conscious of the poor image which youth work has for the general public and of the need to attract more adult volunteers into the youth service, my Department sponsored a special publicity campaign in 1980 which had the dual aims of making people more aware of the value of youth work and of attracting more adult volunteers to youth service. It is gratifying to hear from the various organisations who have been involved in this campaign of the whole-hearted response which they have received from the public. Here I might also direct the attention of the House to my disappointment that in respect of this great work there is not a greater presence of representatives from what we call the professional classes involved. I have indicated in other areas and I have repeated on many occasions, much to the disappointment of some people, that in a country where the majority of our people are prepared and generous to the extent that they provide sums at the moment, reaching in some cases, £2,000 per annum in respect of the third level education, of members of those classes that investment by the public is entitled to a gratitude which extends beyond the professional person charging for his service. I think there is an obligation, a requirement on him or her, especially if they accept the spirit of third level and higher education, that they must not always count the cost of the service which they render. I would like to see in our youth organisations and our voluntary sport organisations — people who are prepared to give of their time so that the young people can have a more fruitful life — a greater presence of those professional classes who have enjoyed such a subsidy in the education which they receive. Since first I went public on that statement I am heartened that some professional people have written to me and indicated their indebtedness for directing their attention to it, that their absence was not deriving from any preconceived notion or decision on their part but rather that it was an oversight and that since their attention had now been directed to it they were anxious and happy to make their contribution. I am not fully satisfied that my appeal has been responded to by as many people as possible. As yet there are many in all our professions from whom I would expect a contribution which they could make by involving themselves in the membership of any one of the extraordinarily fine voluntary organisations we have at the moment which make us unique among all other countries in the matter of how we are anxious and concerned for our young people.

Being keenly aware of the need for the youth service to adapt and develop to cater for the changing needs and aspirations of young people, I established in May 1978 a committee, under the chairmanship of District Justice O'Sullivan, to examine the nature and effectiveness of the programmes of youth organisations in receipt of grants from my Department. The final report of District Justice O'Sullivan's committee was published last autumn. It has been welcomed universally by youth organisations and all those involved in youth work. It is an indication of the high priority I have attached to the development of youth services that almost half of the recommendations of the O'Sullivan report which are appropriate to my Department have already been implemented.

I am awaiting the views of interested organisations and agencies on the remaining recommendations. These views will be fully considered and examined in the preparation of my response to this report. The major area of concern for me, which led to the setting up of the O'Sullivan Committee, was the effectiveness of the activities and the programmes being provided for young people in their leisure time. The findings of the O'Sullivan Committee served to strengthen my conviction that there was a need for a comprehensively structured framework of programmes which young people, either as members of groups, of schools or as individuals, could pursue in their spare time.

After careful consideration and examination of possible ways of meeting this need, I drew up proposals for the national youth awards scheme. I am happy to say that the Government not only accepted my proposals in principle, but that the Minister for Finance, Deputy Gene Fitzgerald, in his budget speech gave to the youth of the country the great news that he was providing a sum of £100,000 for me to launch this national youth awards scheme. That budgetary provision allows for the preparation of a scheme, which will be a programme seeking to give due recognition to the initiative, achievement and excellence of our youth. It will consist of a programme of activities which young people, as members of groups, of schools or as individuals, can pursue in their spare time. It will offer all young people the challenge to develop personal excellence through voluntary involvement in physical fitness programmes, community service activities, pursuit of a hobby or a personal interest and outdoor educational expeditions on a learning by doing basis. It will not be competitive, since each participant or group of participants will be assessed on the achievement of personal goals.

While details of the scheme have yet to be worked out, awards such as gold, silver and bronze medals could be presented to those who have satisfied particular standards of achievement, either as individuals or as members of groups. It is my intention that the award will operate through a self-managing, independent body with a patron and a national board or committee which would promote and establish the award. The programme will be such that it could be adopted by such agencies as Vocational Education Committees, voluntary youth organisations, sport organisations, employers and other bodies who would be licensed to use the scheme and have full responsibility for its conduct. I will be pursuing the establishment of that award scheme with all possible haste.

I would like to say a special word about the greater Dublin area. Since taking up office, I have promoted the reorganisation and revitalisation of the service being provided by Comhairle le Leas Óige. Accepting Deputy Ryan's invitation to enlighten the people, to guarantee they will not be voting in ignorance and to give them the benefit of comparison, in 1977, when Deputy Ryan was Minister for Finance in respect of that service he made a sum of £200,000 available. That was the sum he made available in the previous year. This year, Deputy Gene Fitzgerald, Minister for Finance is making available a sum in excess of £300,000. I recognise the special needs and circumstances of the greater Dublin area and I am at present considering the question of extending beyond the city boundary the type of services being provided by Comhairle.

Since 1978, I have made annual grants available to vocational education committees to assist the development of youth and sport services at local level. Last year the grants totalled £218,000. This year there will be a substantial increase.

How much?

Approximately £½ million will be available to vocational education committees. That is apart from the funds which will be available to Comhairle le Leas Óige and apart from all the other direct grants. When Deputy Ryan, who is anxious for enlightenment, was Minister for Finance, there was nothing available to the vocational education committees for this work. This year I intend that the chief executive officer will be personally responsible for arranging the co-operation and co-ordination at local level between the voluntary sector and the various statutory agencies in the development of services for youth. This programme will be introduced initially in four pilot areas with the appointment of full-time link officers and the provision of additional funds in these areas. These plans are set out in the White Paper on educational development and I will be arranging for discussion between the VECs and my Department with a view to the early introduction of this programme of development. Though there is no reference to any need for such activity in that area in Deputy Collins's White Paper, I know that I can look forward to his co-operation in this matter of the implementation of the great initiative of which I speak. Also, from my experience of Deputy McMahon in the past, I am confident that co-operation from him will be forthcoming even without my asking for it.

While on the subject of the VECs it would be remiss of me not to compliment that sector of education for their wonderful pioneering work in the area of outdoor pursuits. I am happy to have been able to respond to their initiative in making funds available for the establishment of outdoor pursuit centres, eight of which will be operational this year. There are more of these centres on the planning board for 1981, one of which is to be in the renowned Burren area of Clare. This demonstrates the variety of outdoor educational opportunities which abound in this country and again, it is relevant to my insistence that we must never establish that the education of our youth must be confined to four walls. Rather we must act as quickly as possible and in as reforming a way as possible to educate public opinion to the fact that what is known as education is relevant in part but not in whole to the requirements of our young people. I am not advocating revolution in any aspect of life in saying that. We should be exploring the great opportunities that exist in respect of what are described now as outdoor pursuit centres. Through the appointment of full-time competent personnel at these centres, expanded programmes in a variety of outdoor activities and field studies will become available to young people. The provision and expansion of these centres will provide a much needed common denominator both for formal and for informal education and will introduce a new and exciting dimension to personal development.

In the White Paper I have undertaken to support the establishment of further centres at various strategic places throughout the country and to establish a national outdoor pursuits centre for the training of instructors in adventure sports. Through these centres educational opportunities will be offered to young people in particular to help them acquire various outdoor recreational skills which can be utilised as lifelong leisure activities and to improve physical fitness through the pursuit of outdoor recreational activities. This development will help young people also to understand and appreciate nature and natural beauty, to appreciate the relationship between man and nature and the interdependence of living things in the natural environment. This development will help young people also to understand the importance of conserving natural resources, to foster attitudes of conservation and to acquire the techniques necessary for the proper use of our resources. It will help them to develop desirable social characteristics through living and working together while sharing experiences in the natural environment. I consider this to be as important as any other aspect of what is known as education.

Is it more important that the 11 sports halls that were promised two years ago but the building of which has not even started?

Give me time.

We have given the Minister two years. Eleven of these sports halls were promised to the community schools.

The Minister must be allowed make his speech without any assistance.

As a result of the representations of the Deputy and of other politicians one of these halls will be in Tallaght.

They were promised two years ago and the Minister makes another day of telling us they are on the way.

The Minister, without interruption.

It might be more to the political advantage of Deputy Seán Walsh that the one I promised for Tallaght will, I hope, be operating this year. With the co-operation of the county council, work will commence on that hall this year.

Though I am on the school board I have not heard anything about this yet.

Deputy McMahon must not interrupt in this way.

This is not related to the school board. It is the sports complex promised out of tripartite fund moneys.

Eleven have been promised.

Last year I launched a scheme to assist and encourage cross-Border exchanges between youth and sports clubs. Under the scheme grants are available to youth and sport clubs to enable them to travel to the North and engage in youth and sport activities with their counterparts there. The scheme has met with a certain amount of success. However, I am a little disappointed that the total allocation provided has not been taken up in full and I repeat what I have said in respect of youth work, that is, that my priority is the interchange that occurs between the young people of Ireland so that they are given the opportunity of discovering each other at their own level and in exercises which are appropriate to their own capacity, to their aptitudes, their interests and their inclinations.

Since 1977 the range of international opportunities available to young people has continued to expand. In 1980 alone young Irish people were involved in cultural exchanges with France, Belgium and Germany with the financial support of my Department. Further cultural agreements have been signed now with Spain, Holland and Greece under which young Irish people will benefit in the future.

After I had been in office for some months in 1973 I commenced what I believed would be the breakthrough in the awakening of public awareness as to the importance of physical education, but in 1973, the Government in which Deputy Ryan was Minister for Finance appeared on the scene.

They were elected by the people.

I always respect the voice of the people of Ireland.

Our Taoiseach was elected. He did not appear on the scene.

Deputy McMahon will have to disappear from the scene if he continues to interrupt.

The problem with him is that he is jealous and frustrated at the success we have achieved.

How do Governments appear on the scene?

The Minister's time is very limited and he should be allowed continue without interruptions.

I have an announcement which I am anxious that the people of Ireland should hear, but Deputy McMahon as a politician realises that what I have to say to the people will not be to his advantage. That is why he is trying to prevent me from continuing.

Tell us about the school bus service.

If the Deputy wishes to remain in the House he must cease interrupting.

We would like to hear about the school-bus service which comes within the responsibility of the Minister.

The Coalition commissioned my predecessor to introduce a scheme whereby all children would have had to pay for school transport.

That is a blatant lie.

My plan envisaged a greater investment in the existing areas of State support, the re-establishment of the National Sports Council, a vigorous campaign towards the implementation of the sport-for-all charter, greater liaison with the Council of Europe through its Ministers of Sport and the Council for the Development of Sport, special initiatives to develop sport and greater State investment in recreation facilities.

My first task was to re-establish the National Sports Council which this Government had created in 1971 and which had been killed by the subsequent Coalition Government.

In February 1978, therefore, after careful consideration I re-established Cospóir. I do not have to speak in commendation of that body. The country knows the great work they have done and I take this opportunity of recording my thanks to them for that great work which they have done under the chairmanship of Ronnie Delaney, in awakening the people of Ireland to the importance of physical education and sport in their lives.

Early in 1980, following consultation with the Association of Chief Executive Officers of Vocational Education Committees, Cóspoir, in order to assist with the development of the sport-for-all philosophy at local level, established sports advisory bodies under the aegis of vocational education committees. These committees are widely representative of sporting interests at local level and act as Cóspoir's agents for the promotion of its "sport for all campaign". There is no doubt that such committees perform invaluable work in their areas to raise the general level of awareness of the public of the value of sport and to encourage people of all ages to participate in some suitable sporting activity.

All these programmes to encourage greater participation in sport and recreational activities are directed at the community in general and each has contributed in its own way to the achievement of the objectives of the "Sport for All" concept. However in this regard it must be stated that the level of participation by women in sport is lower than it should be and there is still a remarkable absence of women in executive and decision-making roles within sports organisations. I might add that this situation is not peculiar to Ireland as was shown when, at a conference of European Ministers responsible for sport held in London two years ago, I drew the attention of the Ministers present to the absence of women from our deliberations. Following that I was asked to host a conference here at which the theme was the greater involvement of women in sport, participation and administration. A very successful conference was held and "Women in Sport" now represents the major theme at the Ministers for Sport's Conference in Spain next month.

It is a pity we have not a Minister for Sport here. We could sent him to it.

We have a Minister for Sport here and we have money for sport here. You had only half a Minister.

There are only ten minutes left. The Minister should be allowed to finish.

I drew attention to the fact that women were not asked to make their contribution to the whole area of sport. I was also mindful of the fact that in the implementation of the "Sport for All policy" the handicapped were entitled to their rightful place. I was happy that Lord Dunraven accepted my invitation to act on Cospoir and I am delighted with his contribution. I was happy and proud to accompany our paraplegic athletes to Arnhem in Holland last year and to know that this year there is particular emphasis on the rights of the handicapped in our philosophy of "Sport for All". It is such a tender matter that I would not presume to remind Deputy McMahon or Deputy Collins or Deputy Ryan of the air of neglect that existed when I took over.

A new development of sport in these islands has been the introduction of my sports scholarships scheme. These scholarships are designed to help young Irish sportspersons who show promise in their particular sport to develop at national and international levels while pursuing their chosen academic careers. Since the introduction of this scheme in September 1979 ten scholarships have been awarded and to date I am satisfied that the scheme is a worthwhile innovation, one which is not available to young people in other European countries.

In 1979 I introduced a special aid fund to assist our national teams and individual sportspersons. There was no money available to them prior to that. I paid very special attention to the special position of our Olympic Council and I am pleased that they have acknowledged their indebtedness to the Government for the manner in which we have funded them and the generosity of that funding since Fianna Fáil took office.

In 1979 and 1980 I set up a very special pre-Olympic training programme over and above the normal grant aid to the Olympic Council. I am grateful in this regard to the director of Thomond College and the principal of the Ballinteer Community School for the sports complex facilities which they made available to me to enable these training camps be established.

The year 1980 also saw the introduction of a national boat building competition. The area of sport and youth cannot be divorced from the community in which young people have their being and the provision of community recreation facilities. I shall refrain from dwelling on the circumstances which obtained in this important area in the bleak years of 1973, 1974, 1975 and 1976 when there was not a penny available to my predecessor to give to any voluntary or statutory organisation interested in providing recreational facilities. I would remind those present, and indeed the nation, that the Fianna Fáil Government, in co-operation with trade unions and employers and as announced by the Taoiseach last year, made a special fund of £5.5 million available for the provision of sporting and recreational facilities and that, in addition, local authorities and community groups made a contribution of £2.5 million. This means that at the moment, between direct and indirect grants, the Fianna Fáil Government have an investment in 1980 of £10 million for the provision of youth sporting and recreational facilities. During the term of office of the Government of Deputy Collins, Deputy McMahon, Deputy Ryan and of Deputy Bruton whom I see coming into the House——

Pray for us.

——there was not one penny made available.

That is not true.

It would appear from Deputy Collins programme of education that if ever they return to office there will be no money made available, even in the future.

No policy. No policy in the Opposition's White Paper, nothing on youth.

The facilities at present being provided are major sport centres and community recreation centres which cater for the numerous and varied community recreational activities, and outdoor pursuits centres which will cater for the preferences and requirements of youth. The programme, when complete, will cater for the recreational needs of the entire community at all age levels, while simultaneously providing the adventure and challenge demanded by our youth.

The Minister has forgotten about the 11 sports halls.

In short, it gives a picture of what we have accomplished for the Government on behalf of the people——

What about the school transport?

I pay my tribute to the Taoiseach and Government who gave me the privilege of doing it. Again, I restate my sympathies for poor Deputy Bruton. When he was in the office, he had so little to do that they transferred him to the Department of rising prices. That is the position. In his absence, I defended him.

What sort of prices have we now?

Deputy Bruton did nothing for youth or sport, because he had no money.

I did more than the Minister has ever done.

The man to blame there was Deputy Richie Ryan who would not give Deputy Bruton any money. He could not do anything for youth and sport because the Minister for Education——

We got the people employed.

Apparently, if Deputy Collins were Minister for Education he could not accept sport is a part of the educational requirement of our youth.

There were 60,000 unemployed, as against 126,000 now.

I extend my sympathies to the Deputy.

The Minister does not speak for himself.

Deputy Collins cannot speak for himself.

I can——

He would want a bit of assistance. That is my impression.

—— and will.

If Deputy Collins presumes to speak for the young people of Ireland——

We have our own spokesman.

The Deputy's Party do not say one word about our youth.

The Minister, without interruptions.

The policy is upsetting the Minister.

The Deputy is not capable of speaking for the young people of Ireland, when he would publicly omit from his own document any reference to the need which is there.

We have our own spokesman.

No, this does not come under education. That is what I am telling the Deputy. Shame on Deputy Collins.

That must be getting under the Minister's skin.

We give this a higher priority.

I thought that Deputy Collins's interpretation of education took it away from the formalities which are boring our young people.

The Minister is dealing with fantasy.

I thought that the Deputy would be attracted to the excitement of the development of the mind outside the classroom.

The Minister does not do much for the school leavers. That is his trouble. He has only half a minute left now, and only three or four months in his Department.

I am sorry if his attitude encourages me to remind the Deputy of his omission. Conscience doth make cowards of Deputy Collins and Deputy McMahon.

There should be a pulpit installed here.

Debate adjourned.
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